Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Xtoxm]

This is hype.

So Varsoon I wonder if this finally the game where we're on the same team at like the 7th attempt?? Don't let me down man.

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: shosin

I was already getting scum vibes from calling a bunch of different people town for no reason and campaigning for a policy lynch is just a dick move

[Xtoxm]

Wow just realized how crappy online photo editors are

Ikr?? I downloaded a bunch of apps and they were all useless.

[Xtoxm]

@varsoon. I'm not downgrading skitter (I mean I don't have much in the way of reads on anyone yet). What I notice is skitters were a bit more spread out, so perhaps that's why I didn't see her doing it

[Xtoxm]

Downgrading = townreading

[Xtoxm]

Lol @ having 2 strong instant scum reads in a large game. Get ove4 yourself.

[Xtoxm]

Yeah, because anyone claiming strong reads this early in the game is more likely to just be lying.

[Xtoxm]

You know if varsoon wasn't in this game I would just replace out at this point because the attitude coming from many players is totally disgusting

[Xtoxm]

if it's because he's losing

It's D1

Anything can happen

Yeah he nailed me and my entire scumtean in rvs and thats why i got so upset

Its like you're the only one with a brain in this game

Altho I think varsoons just doing his own weird shenanigans and doesnt actually believe in this so I'll let him off

[Xtoxm]

I dont feel like town-a50 can have a legit scum read on me here so thats a little sus

But what does my opinion matter

[Xtoxm]

Bc he's seen my scum game

[Xtoxm]

I dont feel like town-a50 can have a legit scum read on me here so thats a little sus

But what does my opinion matter

What have you really done for me to have a serious read on you? It's PoE and you're one of 5 slots I could lynch today, and you do have a wagon you. and one that had both skitter & Shoshin joining before we did, so I told Nancy to sheep them. Otherwise our vote would have still been idle because Nancy is very conservative with her D1 votes by nature.

Well I don't expect a glowing townie read necessarily.
It's just that I expected you to approach it differently. You got me to l-1 and encouraged leaving me there. When I thought you would show a bit more caution. Than purging me on D1 on the basis of 9 posts. When you clearly have a favourable opinion of me. There was nothing along the lines of "let's wait for him to get into the game". It was Straight to "lets get a claim".

And because your approach surprised me this is why I have some suspicion.

[Xtoxm]

And for similar reasons i do townread Varsoon now, at least mildly. I don't really think he unvotes me as scum like that.

[Xtoxm]

Bc he's seen my scum game

I know nothing of your meta. Can you post a link to a town and scumgame of yours?

Sure. Any specific scenario you're looking for or just want me to pick 2 at random?

[Xtoxm]

Well as you didn't specify I'll go for victories where I survived endgame. As those are more memorable. Here's a town one:
viewtopic.php?f=111&t=64329

[Xtoxm]

And scum: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=65395
Enjoy.

[Xtoxm]

@Xtoxm couple of things
1) is your name a Tom variation? it's distracting me
2) do you think you're easy to read? => do you think it should be easier to read you after having a look at your past games?

1. Mm
2. No, not really. What I said really only applied to A50 uniquely. This game has been fairly different to any of my 'meta' I feel. And I haven't played for like 2 years. Probably part of why I'm really struggling to get any reads in this game.

[Xtoxm]

@nauci
How come you moved me back to null? Was it something I said or just the ease with which I got wagoned?

@worst
I don't know most people in this game, and a lot of people seem to know each other well and are throwing around townreads and I'm just not seeing it. I feel like it would be easy to post a bunch of fake reads. Which I'm not against doing as town if I think it'll get me townread. But I've chosen to be honest. /shrug
Im big a big D1 player either I usually try to just lurk it out to D2 in large games like this but I saw people picking on Varsoon so I came to defend him.

[Xtoxm]

I'm not a big D1* is how that's meant to read

[Xtoxm]

I townread Creature. His comments on my early posts felt accurate and genuine, and I don't see much incentive for him to do this as scum. He was the first person to entertain the idea I could be town.

I townread Varsoon. Previosly when I've asked him if we're both scum he reacted much more firmly. This time he was just like "possibly". And as I said I think unvoting me comes from a town place.

I'm getting a townlean on you just because you're trying to engage me. I could see scum doing that to his dying mislynch tho so I won't write you off yet.

[Xtoxm]

If we're both town*

[Xtoxm]

Nauci has gone from being confident enough in scumreading me to call the teacher slot town on that basis, to avoiding my wagon and putting me back at null which I find a bit confusing.

I'd have Keyser at null or nulltown. Nothing there that I find suspicious.

[Xtoxm]

Skitter is having similar feelings to me re:a50, and I take likeminded thinking as a possible town indication.

Millions isn't memorable for me, he's null.

[Xtoxm]

I'd much prefer a lynch on Xtom.

I really was hoping to play more of the game with him, though.
I know it's a really selfish and personal thing to ask, but can we let him be until at least D2?
If, by then, his play doesn't convince you that he's town, then I'll follow you there on a lynch, but I think it'd be kinda a bummer for the guy's return to site just to be lynched D1.
I'm also not really sold on him being scum.
And even if he's scum, he's gotta have buddies--why don't we find them?
His lynch also seems way too easy.

Or maybe she's not a townbeard and actually just scum. Tunnelling me since my first post and the read doesn't evolve in response to literally anything. You're going to have to stop putting blind faith on this at some point.

[Xtoxm]

Or maybe she's not a townbeard and actually just scum. Tunnelling me since my first post and the read doesn't evolve in response to literally anything. You're going to have to stop putting blind faith on this at some point.

But Xtoxm, she's NEVER mislynched ANYONE.
EVER.

Don't worry about the Shoshin slot, though.
What are your thoughts outside of Shoshin?
Who do you think is scum if Shoshin is town?

I still think my observation on a50 is good.
I see more motivation for scum to claim pgo on d1 than (might just be a playstyle difference I guess)
I was somewhat underwhelmed by mewtaph basically calling all of the "loltwonblock" town and nothing else in his catch up post.

So that would be where I'd look if shosin flips town.

[Xtoxm]

Or maybe she's not a townbeard and actually just scum.

Tunnelling me since my first post and the read doesn't evolve in response to literally anything.

You're going to have to stop putting blind faith on this at some point.

Seems like you're projecting.

You had already made 25 posts before I voted you so I have no idea wtf ur talking about

[Xtoxm]

I recommend anyone who scumreads Mew take a look at his play in the recently finished Fortnight game.

ok, what about that game makes you think he may be town here?

Yeah I glanced at it (admittedly not very thoroughly) before you suggested this and don’t know how it makes new town

Xtoxm still has lots of scum equity, and I agree that my reason to townread him is pretty weak
@Xtoxm what makes you think my claim is more likely to come from scum? Personal experience? Something else?
I trust in this town to return to xtoxm EOD if other lunch candidates town it up.

Town claiming pgo instantly loses all it's utility, scum will never target it. Scum claiming pgo gives itself a free pass from all night threats. If I was scum and got dealt a pgo safeclaim id be looking to claim it asap.

[Xtoxm]

Im starting to townlean on Nauci, as I was satisfied with her response and more recent posting. Skitter opinion hasn't changed since I last commented on her.

[Xtoxm]

And, I'm accepting there's a possible playstyle difference here which is why I'm not pushing you over it. I think we shown pretty discordant thought processes so far which makes me think you're the type of player I will get scum feelings from as any alignment.

[Xtoxm]

That is also a fair point vars.

[Xtoxm]

Xtom, can you give me a quick rundown of where all your reads are at the moment?

So I tried starting one but realised I'm not confident enough in reads to really do this yet

[Xtoxm]

Town
Creature, Varsoon
The worst

Nulltown
Nauci, Keyser, spotter

Nulls - everyone else

Nullscum
Mewtaph, NM

Scummy
Shoshin, a50, irre

There. Now you can mock me after the game for how bad they are.

[Xtoxm]

Nulltown
Nauci, Keyser, spotter

Why is Key leaning town?

Its not as strong as a lean. Someone asked me earlier to comment on him, so I iso'd him, and he seemed to have a fair amount of content and none of it looked bad to me so I put him on the town side of null. Saying a lot without looking scrummy is worth something when I have so few town reads.

[Xtoxm]

At this time only scum is in a position to comment on the quality of my reads.

[Xtoxm]

How am I meant to not scum read shoshin here. Going into this game all I see I about her are people worshipping her town game, and herself boasting about the perfection of her town game.

And then she death tunnels me.

So given the knowledge of my own alignment.

Do I respect her reputation, therefore indicating she's tunnelling me for a mislynch.

Or disregard her reputation and call her a townbeard.

Please explain how I not scum read shosin here.

[Xtoxm]

My record speaks for itself and it's not just Labyrinth. In my initial newbie game, I called scumteam on D1 and was named MVP. In American Presidents, I called scumteam on D2 after which I was nightkilled. Town went on to win. I played a key role in winning Supp Mafia, pushing lynches on scum from D2 to the last day phase, when we won. I lynched scum in the recent Epic game, after which scum used their sole kill in the whole game on me. I've won all my town games on this site except the one that you were in, where again I told you not to mislynch Irrelephant (you did), told town not to mislynch Reck (they did), and then got screwed by Nos trolling.

You really need to get over yourself.

This is the definition of boasting

[Xtoxm]

And varsoon has steeped your every vote this game and says you never mislynch. And others have steeped you too

[Xtoxm]

Sheeped*

[Xtoxm]

My record speaks for itself and it's not just Labyrinth. In my initial newbie game, I called scumteam on D1 and was named MVP. In American Presidents, I called scumteam on D2 after which I was nightkilled. Town went on to win. I played a key role in winning Supp Mafia, pushing lynches on scum from D2 to the last day phase, when we won. I lynched scum in the recent Epic game, after which scum used their sole kill in the whole game on me. I've won all my town games on this site except the one that you were in, where again I told you not to mislynch Irrelephant (you did), told town not to mislynch Reck (they did), and then got screwed by Nos trolling.

You really need to get over yourself.

This is the definition of boasting

So, you believe Shoshin’s claims are somehow unfounded and you view her as arrogant. That makes her scum, how again?

No, I think the fact she has a good reputation and is incorrect about me makes her scum.

[Xtoxm]

You missed quoting the part where I called myself a good player

[Xtoxm]

That's the point

[Xtoxm]

Anyway. This got more heated than it needed to. Thanks for applying some perspective, Irrelaphant.

In light of the comments on shosins play, and her moving elsewhere im happy to UNVOTE: .

It's true that I should be putting more stock in my top town reads all townreading shosin.

[Xtoxm]

It's ok vars I'm about done with this game. You can take the high ground in having called things correctly here

[Xtoxm]

I look forward to everyone blaming their mislynch for being soooooo scummy and having having terrible reads after I flip.

[Xtoxm]

And ftr as this hydra keeps slandering me. I did NOT do that.

[Xtoxm]

And ftr as this hydra keeps slandering me. I did NOT do that.

The bolded says otherwise. How else did you expect that post to be read?

I expected people to click on the link I included, but I guess it was hard for some people.

[Xtoxm]

What's up

[Xtoxm]

Yeah he's one of the 2 reads that im happy with in this game.

[Xtoxm]

Scanned his also but I'm not getting anything

[Xtoxm]

Iso*

[Xtoxm]

Where ya going anyway

[Xtoxm]

Idk, a few people called out perfs l-1 on me but at the time I was the alternate wagon to him so I don't feel like it means anything. Townies have survival instinct too

[Xtoxm]

Ah that's really cool

What does eod mean btw never seen it before

[Xtoxm]

You got varsoon at middle of the road huh

If he's scum in this game he totally has me

I will bow to him Wayne's world style

[Xtoxm]

Am I the only one that doesn't get busy in weekends?

I can relate to this.

[Xtoxm]

The guy with 1/5th my posts calling out my activity ahhaahahaaaaahhaaaahahaha. Ahem.

I had some choice words for you but 1661# isn't terrible so I'll keep them to myself.

This game isn't fun for me right now. I need to take a breather.

I'd like Varsoon and worst to know that I really really appreciate what you guys have done standing up for me. Worst, you seem like a chill dude, I'm glad I've met you here.

Side note - my phone also keeps trying to autocorrect Varsoon to bassoon. So if you'd like a pet name, I can stop fixing that. X.D

[Xtoxm]

Mitilos new stuff is scumposting

[Xtoxm]

This game has moved so quickly that people who are objectively pretty active can still look like lurking in comparison

[Xtoxm]

For the most part I've had no reason to suspect performer. I would be interested for him to elaborate on his vote though because I feel like hasn't pushed me or even really mention me since he place it on page 10, I generally expect a tunnel to parralel with that kind of vote length

[Xtoxm]

Creature, bassoon
Tw
Mewtaph
Nauci, skittles, NM, Keyser, Kokicki
Performer - null line
Mitilos, shos, irre, an

I thought that NM votes were on sensible wagons for pressure at the time so I upgraded him, I may be over thinking that one

[Xtoxm]

Yeah he should probably just be back at null tbh.

Mit - I didn't like his 2 recent posts, it felt like he was compiling a cases based on a collection of things that town can easily do. His text on performer pinged me in particular.

Shos - i have not at any point this game felt like shos has approached me with a town mindset. I am accepting others with more experience of her saying town, but my own read on that slot is a scum read.

Irre - he is here primarily for the claim. I am someone who tends to value info over interaction. And this is the only info we have d1. If I would find his posting very townie I can move him up but I don't.

An - in addition to earlier read, I have a hard time believing this slot really thinks I was trying to hide that a quote was from elsewhere, so I find that suspect to push a case on me for that.

[Xtoxm]

I get brownie points in the dead thread if she is tho

Its entirely possible my reads are a crock of shit this game but this is how I see it

[Xtoxm]

It felt like he had the same instinctual reaction to me on MIT with his vote, so I gave him some minor town pts.

I'm aware that almost all of my reads are based around how people have acted with me. I've been pressured/tunneled so hard I'm not sure how to avoid it. I do need to stop townreading ppeople just because they call me possibly town. When creature did it first it meant something but probably not by the 3rd and 4th.

[Xtoxm]

Performer

: His entrance wasn't great to a bunch of people, but I saw nothing particularly wrong with it. The defense of Varsoon was a bit weird since one would expect "policy lynches are wrong" instead (especially given the later posts 264 and 962). I already talked about the problem with 277, where it looks like it's just an exercise in looking for an excuse to vote Shoshin more than anything else. Then he fluffed a bit and FoS'd everyone who voted him except me (Shoshin, worst, Nauci, irrel, and eventually Creature), which is kinda meh in itself, even if he said it wasn't OMGUS. In 715 he starts throwing suspicion at Vars linked to Shoshin, but at least that one I can understand if one doesn't read Vars' posts as being sarcastic.
In the same post he says he has to reread Xtoxm, then when Shoshin makes a vague minor threat, he instantly switches his vote from Shoshin to Xtoxm, joining Shoshin, worst, Vars, and irrel (all four being players he has claimed suspicions on), and putting Xtoxm at L-1 without even mentioning this to be the case. Note that he definitely knew that the wagon was large and getting traction, given that he explicitly said in 715 that he needed to reread Xtoxm to see why he was being voted.
The "Rory Swann is an engineer" thing could easily have come from a scumchat as others have mentioned. Bit tinfoily, sure, but still possible.

Read: Scum. Join this wagon, and bring rope.

Fos everyone on his wagon - not scrummy imo
L-1 without mentioning - why is this scrummy? It's not
Joining wagon with scum reads - clumsy, but is it scrummy? I'm not sure it is. I'm more careful to avoid clumsy votes as scum than town, and it was really early so reads won't have been strong.
Scumchat thing - doubtful

The whole thing just kinda reminds me of when I'm scum and I'm trying to justify a vote/scumread

[Xtoxm]

The ninja thing also does nothing for me. Scum trivially are also informed of this. I don't know why so many people reference that as a town point.

[Xtoxm]

Happy birthday dude

[Xtoxm]

I once played a game where a scum lurked hard-core and people kept saying he was scrummy but let's not lynch him because it gives no info. He survived endgame.

[Xtoxm]

I'm not super unhappy or super happy with going with anybody in my POE pool so I'm very much in the midst of chasing down new leads but pessimistic about whether or not there's enough time left today to do much with anything I find

To quote you. "You have two whole days to figure it out"

The pessimism isn't about whether or not I can chase things down. It's just too late to start a new wagon, I'm pretty sure.

I guess that means I should throw my efforts entirely on the existing set of lynchable players. Doh

For Christ sake Nauci. We have 2 days and this is possibly the most active game I've ever played.
viewtopic.php?p=7565356#p7565356
2 entirely new wagons were pushed to l1 after this post.
Build the wagon you believe in.

[Xtoxm]

Why is Creature town? Can someone who town reads Creature explain it to me?

If you iso him and start at iso #43, that 10 or so post sequence is the basis of my read. If you want to go further and look out of iso, this was around when I was l1 or l2.

[Xtoxm]

Um yeah like if your even considering that please don't replace out worst. Your level of contribution here is great.

[Xtoxm]

Is MIT the final 24h hero wagon we need

[Xtoxm]

#2382 resonates with me

[Xtoxm]

Open question, is it typical for Nancy to change their read entirely on someone over one post?

[Xtoxm]

I'm happy that you invited

I just find it a bit confusing

And like what I said was such a minor thing

P-ed
Bro I'm a phone player do I have to

[Xtoxm]

I suspect the whole game right now. It's not easy being town.

Here it is

[Xtoxm]

Work with me on these wagons?
How do you feel about a NM lynch?

Wasn't at me but I do have some thoughts on him.

1. I agree with Nauci that his most recent contributions look like NM not scumhunting, just being somewhat random
2. His wagon is composed of scum reads, but I might be wrong about one of my scum reads
3. I can see scum bussing NM if he played like this
4. I've seen much more impressive play from NM in different games. If he's going to maintain this current approach, it's hard to read him, and hard to justify keeping him.
5. He's avoided voting me, and actually joined a counterwagon to me multiple times. I wonder if is a) because he's townreading me b) random chance and hes not actually paying attention c) hes scum and wants to tie himself to me. Because he's said so little, I really don't know which option to believe.

[Xtoxm]

Why would you lynch an ic claim

That's a terrible idea

[Xtoxm]

But delayed IC is a role that can exist. How could anyone claim it without looking like they want to "scrape one more day"

[Xtoxm]

That was a super dodgy hammer, NM hasn't even claimed

[Xtoxm]

That hammer was the scummiest thing I've seen this game.

I'm comfortable to place a vote here.

VOTE: performer

[Xtoxm]

Why assume another vig instead of an sk?

Like I hope there are still tpr but I think every other night stuff is usually to balance roles and have hardly ever seen there be even and odd for the same thing

How does scum kill a PGO and still live then?

If we think creature got vigged, which seems the most likely option, then town has 3 different killing roles. Scum would surely have a protective of their own in this case, and opted to remove the pgo before they risk their protective getting lynched. I suppose it's theoretically possible the odd night vig killed irre and had protection from the odd night doc, but this seems less likely to me.

I'm sad that one of my 2 solid reads in this game appears to have been vigged.

[Xtoxm]

I mean I'm assuming Mewtaph is the odd night vig. He might as well claim if so, it's that obvious...

[Xtoxm]

Spiderverse was really good, probably one of my favorite animated movies ever made.

Also, some shit happened that's really soured me on playing mafia so I might just replace out here since I'm having trouble keeping up. :/

@MOD: V/LA until after New Years.
I'll be around but
eh.

[Xtoxm]

Those of us inside the "poe" have seen the first one flip town, know our own alignment and see another claiming ic. If performer flips scum and koki doesn't get confirmed then ok but it's really looking like the poe is bs from where I'm standing

[Xtoxm]

So it's not a safeclaim basically

You can confirm that person as town

If it's town flavour

[Xtoxm]

Bassoon are you paying no attention at all in this game? I've haven't reversed my read on you at all

[Xtoxm]

You literally have not been reading my posts

[Xtoxm]

Oh
I figured out the problem
I am overgamed.
Nah yeah Xtoxm you're good here, I'm a doofus.

No worries, I feel ya.

[Xtoxm]

I am so sick of multiball, I hope it's not
It would fit flavour wise for sure though

[Xtoxm]

^notice how hard Nauci is working to save Performer

[Xtoxm]

Because Perf's hammer on NM was a scumclaim to me and my view of the game from here depends on him flipping red, but I want to actually confirm that before I go any further.

You can lynch me if you want though I don't really give a shit.

[Xtoxm]

I have no interest in further interaction with him no. I have to be able to trust that townies won't make reckless antitown plays like that.

If he flips red it might make shosin toan, Keyser looks more scrummy and I might have to reconsider.

If he did flip green it would reinforce most of my D1 views I guess.

[Xtoxm]

Reconsider mit* 2nd line

[Xtoxm]

i would find it very comical if perf gets away with that hammer and we lynch me instead. like hysterically funny. please do it.

[Xtoxm]

bro

[Xtoxm]

mate.
viewtopic.php?p=7293596#p7293596

[Xtoxm]

its more of a curse tbh. i remember too much.
and im still salty about the 4p town hood you never gave me read access to after Space Dandy 1, btw.

[Xtoxm]

yes thats it! thanks!
at the time i bugged you for it but you said someone didn't give permission, i guess you released it later.
tysm.

[Xtoxm]

ok guys i just had a really tinfoily idea that might be total bs but it makes sense in my head rn

varsoon said that the zerg mind control humans to do their bidding. what if the zerg is scum/sk and that is their ability, to control a terran player and have them perform the kill.
so a zerg mind controlled creature to kill irre and then creature got pgo'd

[Xtoxm]

why are you complaining about people lynching you over perf when you arent voting perf yourself mew?

[Xtoxm]

i figured it out
everyone except varsoon and kockiki is scum

[Xtoxm]

dont do it man.
i cant lose another town read from this game.
i just cant.

[Xtoxm]

Keyser am I scum
Jw

[Xtoxm]

Key N1 result? Are you odd/even night or full power?

[Xtoxm]

I mean I want to think Krazy wouldn't be so bastard to put a solo third party that can't win with town in the game, and then further weaken it's already tiny chances of winning by informing someone of its existence.

But idk

[Xtoxm]

^notice how hard Nauci is working to save Performer

You think they’re linked?

Something's going on. There's no reason for there to be this much opposition to Perf's lynch.

[Xtoxm]

Regardless of what we think of keys claim (I don't like the informed bit) he is our first investigate claim and I don't want to lynch that.

[Xtoxm]

ive decided the way keyser went about his claim looks very town

sup drunkposting btw.

[Xtoxm]

i wiki'd Nova and it seems to be one of the main characters. could be a safeclaim so i dont see anything to read into that. did mew role claim? if so i didnt see

[Xtoxm]

Nancy ive been wondering. how the fuck do you swap between all these different accounts so quickly? do you have like 5 different devices logged into them

[Xtoxm]

haha ok

[Xtoxm]

thats a vanilla game
what am i meant to do with that

[Xtoxm]

Good thing we let the wolves lead a witch hunt to out all the tprs today instead of lynching obvscum perf like 4 rl days ago

[Xtoxm]

nauci is openwolfing

[Xtoxm]

nauci is openwolfing

spoken like a true master

[Xtoxm]

scum getting greedy with this rolefishing
everyone should just stop saying anything and force them to find the votes for a flip if they wanna do this

[Xtoxm]

so town has zero investigatives?

[Xtoxm]

we have zero flipped/claimed investigatives outside of keyser. why would you even risk lynching there without establishing someone (dead or alive) challenging him for only investigative in the game?

[Xtoxm]

Thanks Nancy. I'm not sure what to do with you, but i'm sure you'd like to know I moved you out of my scum pile some time today.

A large part of me feels like Nauci is just open wolfing here, the agenda she has been pushing today is so pro-scum. I can't tell if it's coming from a malicious place or reckless town trying to game solve.

[Xtoxm]

pushing lots of different wagons to out info, further pushing mew after he said revealing his info would be anti town, and now pushing on key despite no other invest claims. i struggle to see town motivation for any of this.

[Xtoxm]

But if we ended up in a spot we thought was lylo and went for a massclaim, and it turns out no one dead or alive claims invest, would you agree keys is then very likely town?
If yes, why risk lynching the invest today?
Perf claims protective. We have a dead protective. Perf can never be cleared by setup spec. Keys potentially could, as well as providing a headache for scum if he is town.
Lynching an invest claim with no counters on D2 is a really high risk play we don't need to take.

p-ed: I'm frustrated at Keys lack of doing much as well, i'm not sure he's ever placed a vote since RVS? But that doesn't mean i'm willing to risk lynching him at this stage of the game.

[Xtoxm]

Honestly performer has mostly read null for me. I did find it odd that he vote parked me for so long yesterday without actually pushing me at all. In hindsight perhaps that was a scum indication.

But really it's that hammer. And you guys keep shitting on me for this. I think my position and his yesterday were uniquely similar. We spent the day being the 2 primary wagons until deadline came around. And then with NM at L-1, we had very different approaches. We were both off the wagon. I was around and posting. I could have done the same thing, we were both equally vulnerable for being a possible counter wagon if NM turned up and claimed. 6 hours was honestly a really LONG time away from deadline in our situation. I had zero thoughts of hammering. I wanted to see what NM had to say. But Perf came in and naked hammered. It was survivalistic. It was so different to how I was looking at the game in that moment, that i'm convinced it came from a scum place.

[Xtoxm]

Honestly performer has mostly read null for me. I did find it odd that he vote parked me for so long yesterday without actually pushing me at all. In hindsight perhaps that was a scum indication.

But really it's that hammer. And you guys keep shitting on me for this. I think my position and his yesterday were uniquely similar. We spent the day being the 2 primary wagons until deadline came around. And then with NM at L-1, we had very different approaches. We were both off the wagon. I was around and posting. I could have done the same thing, we were both equally vulnerable for being a possible counter wagon if NM turned up and claimed. 6 hours was honestly a really LONG time away from deadline in our situation. I had zero thoughts of hammering. I wanted to see what NM had to say. But Perf came in and naked hammered. It was survivalistic. It was so different to how I was looking at the game in that moment, that i'm convinced it came from a scum place.

It’s definitely possible but I really don’t think NM had any intention of claiming anything but Performer should certainly have asked first.

Should we try to fill in the blanks here and assume that Mewtaph’s claim liar is Performer?

It’s tough because he’s not giving us any clue who the liar is. I just find Performer’s claim, hard to believe as making sense, setup-wise.

Maybe but we'll never know because he had the chance taken away 6 hours before deadline. Perf also didn't know.

Mewtaph has voted Perf so it's safe to assume whatever info it is, does not give us a reason to exclude Perf from lynch. Mew insists saying more would be anti-town, so I don't want to think much more than that.

[Xtoxm]

i mean i could link you a couple examples of me protecting people for purely mechanical reasons if you cared but i dont feel like that would actually change anything with your stance on me
im not someone that makes a subpar play just because i happen to be scumreading someone. mechanics are FAR more reliable in this game than reads.

[Xtoxm]

viewtopic.php?p=7570320#p7570320
viewtopic.php?p=7421346#p7421346
2 most recent ones that come to mind.

[Xtoxm]

Tbqh I'd prefer a Keyser lynch over the other 2 today because I feel his scumminess in my bones and the only thing stopping me is what happened in Watchmen Wanted when I was also scumreading him (though that was more strongly conflicted while this is a weaker but more pure scum read)

Has everyone dropped expectations of kokichi to post and are just waiting on whatever ~*~mechanic~*~ to reveal itself?

yep basically
im hoping he wont confirm given his approach but i think that he will
lol

[Xtoxm]

There's at least two scum in Key, Mew, Mitillos, Xtom, or Performer. Key should be investigating within this group if he isn't lynched today.

stop directing prs

[Xtoxm]

i linked the direct posts you only really need to look at those posts and maybe a couple around them

[Xtoxm]

<3 Nancy

[Xtoxm]

pls scumcase me btw shosin i could do with a giggle

[Xtoxm]

Thanks Nancy. I'm not sure what to do with you, but i'm sure you'd like to know I moved you out of my scum pile some time today.

A large part of me feels like Nauci is just open wolfing here, the agenda she has been pushing today is so pro-scum. I can't tell if it's coming from a malicious place or reckless town trying to game solve.

I'm not really sure how you can claim Shoshin is openwolfing then not be able to reach a conclusion on her alignment.. I still think she's really obvious town and I don't think she's wolfsiding at all.

What nefarious agenda are you seeing here?

Because there have been, actually quite a few moments where I thought Nauci looked like town trying to figure things out. But her actions today have been pro-scum. It's dangerous to dismiss scummy actions just because it's packaged behind something that gives you a town feel.

[Xtoxm]

pushing lots of different wagons to out info, further pushing mew after he said revealing his info would be anti town, and now pushing on key despite no other invest claims. i struggle to see town motivation for any of this.

@tw, i don't think you have read all the new stuff yet. here is the quote anyway.

[Xtoxm]

Varsoon has played/modded a lot of my games shos, maybe you should listen to him

[Xtoxm]

i discuss mechanics once in 140 pages and you say im avoiding behavioral analysis in favour of mechanics. lmao
are you just scum here shos

[Xtoxm]

you don't think its possible that 2 townies received similar things? the whole scum team could be imposters. for this to be a guilty you would need to claim the same person.

[Xtoxm]

what can i say im a low effort guy.

[Xtoxm]

im sad at how much info has been claimed today

[Xtoxm]

This flavor shit is now completely bananas and I am shaking my fist at Krazy's popcorn bucket

You just made me lol irl.
10/10 much better than shos attempt to case me

[Xtoxm]

Yeah well you'll feel the shit on your face after I flip worst

[Xtoxm]

Mechanics are the most fun part of mafia for me.

[Xtoxm]

I want to chill out and talk to other human beings also though. Mafia is a nice mix between the two.

[Xtoxm]

Sure worst, I'd /in been a long time since I did that.

[Xtoxm]

I'm glad Krazy put a mechanic in the game to punish the d1 pgo claim. Good game design.

Also we're gonna get boned one way or another for all the info we needlessly outed today.

[Xtoxm]

I'm glad Krazy put a mechanic in the game to punish the d1 pgo claim. Good game design.

Also we're gonna get boned one way or another for all the info we needlessly outed today.

Apparently, town gets punished for trying to game the setup, to fuck scum. That’s what all of this is looking like to me. :/

Punished for claiming to early, which is why how today has gone is so disappointing. I feel really good about perf being scum though. Hopefully we can get things back on track.

[Xtoxm]

you've created a situation that is very apathy inducing for anyone outside the "loltownblock". which scum have probably infiltrated anyway.

[Xtoxm]

well only 2 days til deadline so not much longer for people to string this day out

[Xtoxm]

I see your reveal and case on Nancy, and I understand why you came to that conclusion.
Personally I thought her reaction to your info was a town reaction.
I think it's entirely possible for 2 different scum to be "imposters" and for 2 different townies to be informed of similar things.
I'm disappointed that all of your info came on to the table and leaves you vulnerable, but I do think there was some value in seeing how Nancy reacted to it.
I do still want to lynch Performer, yes.

[Xtoxm]

If he doesn't reveal then we'll have a very easy lynch tomorrow. It would be such a daft scum play that I find it hard believe he would do that. But we'll find out soon.
On Performer, i've actually had the opposite feeling. Multiple other wagons have popped despite Perf in my eyes making a scummy play at the end of yesterday, and following it up with a weak claim and weak day play.
I've felt like scum have really wanted an option other than Perf.

[Xtoxm]

Why do you think scum have entirely avoided buying into my AlmostNancy wagon?

Because
1. Scum were entirely absent when it went down and therefore there was is no interaction to witness.
2. Scum that were present knew Nancy well and didn't want to risk exposing themselves by getting into a conflict with her.

[Xtoxm]

You know, i've always had the opposite feeling. People seem to have this instinct that duplicate roles can't exist. And every conflicting claim means one is scum.
But if someone claims my role, or looks like they are claiming my role, I tend to think "maybe the mod put 2 in". Especially lower utility abilities.
If it's 2 people claiming doctor in a mini, sure. But that's not the situation here.

[Xtoxm]

I thought nancy's reaction was pretty townie tbh.

If zerg are the only scum faction, and dont have gun flavor, town gunsmith doesnt make much sense to me.

If there's more than one faction, and the other faction does have gun flavor, town or zerg gunsmith makes sense to me

@varsoon, zerg is an anti town faction, right?

Gunsmith is a well defined role. It has nothing to do with flavour. It gets guilties on mafia. Regardless of what flavour the mod is using. This is an objectively bad reason to vote for Keyser.

[Xtoxm]

Gunsmith =/= flavour cop, this reasoning is bad and you should feel bad.

[Xtoxm]

The idea is that gunsmith would yeild a guilty on people with 'bullet' kills only, which we're spec'ing that Zerg don't use.

That's not how gunsmith works please stop ignoring me saying this.

[Xtoxm]

The idea is that gunsmith would yeild a guilty on people with 'bullet' kills only, which we're spec'ing that Zerg don't use.

That's not how gunsmith works please stop ignoring me saying this.

Would you like to explain how it is wrong

The roles that gunsmith gets a guilty/not guilty on are well defined and independent of whatever kill flavour the mod is using in a them game. If it worked different the mod should be saying so in the role PM. I'm looking for a source.

[Xtoxm]

Ok. On further research, my interpretation applies to normal games. Theme games

can

be different, but it would be considered bastard not to in inform the gunsmith in the role PM that he checks specifically flavour. So this is something Keyser would need to clarify.

[Xtoxm]

viewtopic.php?p=7733381#p7733381
mastina is a co mod here, this isn't something that would just slip through.

[Xtoxm]

varsoon you're a great guy. please don't worry about your play. ive played a lot with you and i haven't had a single game with you that i didnt have fun in. and thats the most important part of mafia - to socialise and have fun.

[Xtoxm]

i pmed you before this game asking if you wanted to play with me because you are literally one of the most fun people on this site.
making mistakes in play or having an incorrect read sometimes doesnt mean shit. everyone makes mistakes.

[Xtoxm]

@mod:

if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

Unless I flavored the role to have a gun in some way, a gunsmith would receive a "no gun" result

Do feel free to pm if I miss something

im going to comment here just to note that my earlier argument was incorrect in light of this information.
i stand corrected.
and therefore your argument against keyser does have a little more weight.
however for setup spec reasons i still would not be comfortable lynching him at this stage.

[Xtoxm]

I thought the posts he was being t/read for were NAI: the tin foil translated to ‘smug scum’. With the hard defences for him he ended D1 as a slot I wanted more info on.

Show this progression.

VOTE: Keyser

I don't doubt your role.
However, you're incorrectly using mod meta to justify it when the mod might specifically go against meta in this situation.
Furthermore, I'm really to believe the following:
1. A player that has had a fairly scummy game so far just so happens to
2. Be a gunsmith role in a game where town has a PGO and Vig already
3. Where the mod has run this sort of setup as all-town before
4. Where players who are familiar with that game are playing here in this one
5. And you just so happened to check Creature, the only player who you could have checked out of 16 possible choices
6. Creature, who's flip makes it such that your claim has no actual validity to it
7. Creature, who your rationale for checking is this shaky

I don't buy it.

I don't know that he ever showed that progression, either? :/

he declined to
what i can say from memory is that it did feel like a natural progression to me (checking creature)
so the question is whether he faked it

[Xtoxm]

My thoughts on claims/roles:

Spoiler:

I think most players care too much about keeping their roles hidden. I don't think it hurts towns to get multiple early claims from scummy players. I also don't think it hurts to get early claims from townies when those claims are helpful to sorting alignments (e.g. Varsoon's information, miller claims, etc.) or to avoiding catastrophe (e.g. Irrelephant's PGO claim). Yes, roles sometimes help confirm players as town (e.g. vig shooting mafia, doctor preventing a nightkill), but competent scum also fake these sorts of behaviors (e.g. forfeiting nightkill to fakeclaim doctor/bulletproof). I don't see why players place so much value in roles when they don't help nearly as much as people seem to think. From what I've seen, they often lead to mislynches (scum love to push mislynches through role analysis).

I also think most players put too much weight into investigation. I've seen scum fake investigative results in most of my theme games, mini or large. I've seen town get faulty results in half my theme games. I've seen town get mislynched because of faulty guilty results. I've seen scum get cleared from faulty innocents. The reality is that you never know if the investigation has been screwed with by a redirector, bus driver, lawyer, framer, etc. The benefit of investigations from my perspective is to corroborate behavioral reads (e.g. in RC's recent game, an investigative result corroborated strong townreads on NSG and scumreads on Nico), or to encourage players to reevaluate someone you've been townreading (i.e. to combat confirmation bias). I'd never lynch someone because of a guilty, nor clear someone because of an innocent investigation.

I also think the players talking about "game-throwing" in this game because we outed Varsoon's information are overreacting. We outed some information. So what? If he dies, he dies. If he doesn't, he doesn't. The benefit of outing him is that we're getting stronger townreads on his slot, as well as valuable behavioral reactions from Nancy. From my perspective, that's much more useful than keeping his information hidden. I feel more comfortable townreading both him & Nancy after this, which means we're refining our reads in productive ways due to Varsoon's play. It also hedges against the risk that he dies before he outs the information. I see this as a win-win.

And i've had games where i've had to drag townies kicking and screaming to a win because they didn't want to lynch real scum that I had a guilty on because "they are so obviously town". Truth is most people just aren't that good at reading others and results are far more reliable.

[Xtoxm]

that might be L1, been a while since vc.
i think this could be a really big mistake guys.

[Xtoxm]

well, only if the mechanics are applied poorly.
its true that ive seen games thrown by people apply setup spec very poorly.
but the solution to that isnt "ignore mechanics" its "learn to apply them correctly".

[Xtoxm]

we all are. i think key is just busy. he's not posting anywhere on site.
the play he does have looks town imo.

[Xtoxm]

im working on the idea that the 3p will be the non-bullet flavour.
and the groupscum will be bullets.
so in that sense the vig is a false positive (pgo doesnt count hes never getting a result there)
3p false negative, and hes informed of this possibility
seems reasonable

[Xtoxm]

and if you guys flip this.
and its a tpr again.
i'll be writing off towns chances.
dont expect any fucking effort from me tomorrow.

[Xtoxm]

and voting key for his gs claim is literally an example of setup spec done poorly.
if you're gonna bitch at me for talking about mechanics, then dont base your vote on a mechanical reason while doing it.

[Xtoxm]

I was town guys and girls

gonna vote this game or you sitting this one out?

[Xtoxm]

beetlejuicing is NAI.

[Xtoxm]

if i had to compromise somewhere, mit would prob be my top choice. (i mean im assuming shos isnt viable)
still have no idea why everyone has a hard on for perf tho.

[Xtoxm]

his claim really obviously doesn't come from scum who killed Irrelephant imo

well i agree on that.

[Xtoxm]

idk what to make of mew.
i dont usually see this kind of mocking apathy from scum.

[Xtoxm]

{Varsoon}
{AlmostNancy}
{Keyser, Nauci}
{tw, skitter30, Mewtaph}
{Mitillos, Performer, shoshin}

something like this idrk, koki's play is super underwhelming atm and self resolves anyway.
and igaf about associatives when we have only dead town really plus we have multiball basically so not all scum are together
worst i have paranoia about you im sorry i can go into it if you want
nauci continually responding to things i say makes me feel like shes town but at the same time im worried to put her too far up the list.

[Xtoxm]

Hard to make content when you don't have the right people to do it with you.

suss my read list

ignoring your position, where am I right/wrong and why?

Not going to go into this today.

As the top wagon you don't really have another chance soooooo

lol get me to L-1 and claim to hammer if you want my info

shit like this town pings me fairly hard

[Xtoxm]

@Xtoxm that readlist actually makes me feel a little better about you. if you want to air the paranoia you're having and work thru stuff I'm all ears, but I don't feel like your read on me is agenda driven so I'm pretty much fine w it on surface level

On day 1 you seemed to see glimmers of town in me when i wasnt really doing anything, and the scumreads on me were justified.
but today you reversed that and said you'd lost the read, were pushing me as scum for a while.
when my play has actually improved, and a lot of players have noticed.
im actually very deep within my town meta at this point.
Nancy's read on me evolved. Nauci's read evolved. Skitter's read evolved. Even Perf moved me to null.
Mit and shos are plodding along calling me scum. i specifically didn't mention shos at all for a very long time and mentally moved her to null to see if she re-evaluated but she didnt.
your read went in the opposite direction while others were starting to tr me which is a progression i struggle to understand. which gave me paranoia the read was fake and you were WK-ing me on d1.

scum struggle to dynamically evolve their reads. ive been pegged as a ml since d1 and scum dont want to let go of me.

[Xtoxm]

{Varsoon}
{AlmostNancy}
{Keyser, Nauci}
{tw, skitter30, Mewtaph}
{Mitillos, Performer, shoshin}

You too, man. A notch or two lower would be fine.

@Nancy: What have you been doing behind my back? Where you forwarding our Role PM to everyone???

sorry mate nancy obvtowned your slot youre gonna eat an nk again

[Xtoxm]

idk what to make of mew.
i dont usually see this kind of mocking apathy from scum.

So, who do you think I should vote for?

@The worst, same question.

well if youre asking me i still feel like perf is the best bet.
i understand why people are wanting to pressure mew, given what he's doing. kinda reminds me of what i did on d1? so thats prolly affecting my read.

[Xtoxm]

Hard to make content when you don't have the right people to do it with you.

suss my read list

ignoring your position, where am I right/wrong and why?

Not going to go into this today.

As the top wagon you don't really have another chance soooooo

lol get me to L-1 and claim to hammer if you want my info

shit like this town pings me fairly hard

He is being intentionally obstructionistic. That doesn’t read townie to me at all.

it is exactly the type of thing i say when im pissed at a town.

[Xtoxm]

So many people have dumped so much effort into fluffing around what my info is, like if you have a problem with it being hidden then maybe

don't

fish out three different player's roles because you can't decide who to lynch for jack shit and flip around for like 10 extra days than necessary instead of finally deciding on a lynch. Choose one and flip it.

yeah im just calling this town he has the exact same frustrations as me

[Xtoxm]

Mitillos

Why?

he never left my scumpile since the end of d1. he has barely done anything today. i just have felt the whole time much more confident in perf-scum.

[Xtoxm]

he only has about 16 posts today and none of them have done anything particularly redeeming imo.
he made another post that pinged me a bit as well. 3673

[Xtoxm]

he only has about 16 posts today and none of them have done anything particularly redeeming imo.
he made another post that pinged me a bit as well. 3673

Why? I thought that was a decent post.

cant give you a better answer than gut

[Xtoxm]

#4080 is so full of misreps and twisting of facts its comical. you guys will have to take the blinkers off at some point. just because she has 1 game of scum ever in her meta and played badly in it doesnt mean you should locktown and never reevaluate if she isnt obvious floundering scum. people improve a lot after being scum the first time.

[Xtoxm]

you didnt kill irre i'm sure of that. you're genuinely sad about it, he would have blindly followed you to the end of the game.
i could see you killing creature.
or not killing at all. varsoon said the zerg did nothing last night. so maybe you're zerg.

i DID reconsider. for a very long time. YOU didn't. i unvoted and moved you back to null and specifically said very little about you. until after you start pushing for my lynch again.
as someone who claims to have done all this meta on me.
i just dont believe as town you can do that, and come to the conclusion im scum here.
you make vague point at my # of wins as scum. but dont bring up any games where my play here matches my scum game.
im playing nothing like my scum game.
someone who has supposedly done a deep meta dive on me should be seeing that.

[Xtoxm]

and my preconceptions about you are still playing a factor here too.
everyone respects your town game so much.
and i've been waiting for you to evolve your read on me but you haven't at all.
if you're actually town here then you're playing underwhelmingly compared to my expectations.
you're tunneling on town, have done an incorrect meta dive, and make a case on me as daft as #4080.
how long am i expected to keep giving you a pass for this because the others are townreading you?

[Xtoxm]

im playing nothing like my scum game.

What's the difference between your town/scum game?

scumtoxm finds real time interaction extremely difficult and will tend to avoid it. space dandy 1 has a good example of this where i actually get called out for going quiet mid convo.
im not sure that angrytoxm has ever been scum. theres a possibility im wrong on that but i dont recall any. but you push it as a reason to scumread me in 4080.

[Xtoxm]

ive been talking very openly and replying to things swiftly in this game without much thought. i like to think about things as scum. i guess i just expect that to be coming through? it does seem to be for others who have started to put townreads on my slot.

[Xtoxm]

my initial vote on you was basically because you asked for a PL on varsoon, and i tacked on minor reason with it.
i thought i made it very clear at the time and #4080 makes it look like you're trying to imply that vote was something it wasnt.

is there anything else thats confusing you about my emotional state in any of my posts you'd like me to comment on?

[Xtoxm]

he mentioned that he didn't want push keyser because of his claim

[Xtoxm]

Nancy, if you're really confident in Mew-scum then i'll help you with it.
personally still feel like perf is the #1 bet for scum
but you tried to help me a lot with that wagon today
so i can return the favour
let me know.

[Xtoxm]

Why are you mischaracterizing your play as scum?

i don't feel like i am.
space dandy was probably one of my best efforts at mimicking my town play.
but when a good player who knew me well replaced in it started getting difficult for me.
i have a memory in that game where i went quiet literally bc i was scum and couldn't think of anything to say
then nacho said something like "are you going quiet bc [incorrect reason]"
and i was like FUCK FUCK FUCK need to do something.

--

overall i do feel like you have a little bit higher of a opinion of my scumgame than i do of it.
a lot of my scum wins have come by basically avoiding interaction. varsoon can attest to this.
there are a number of scum wins that im quite proud of tho and i appreciate your compliment regardless if your exaggerating it as scum or genuinely have come to this conclusion.

[Xtoxm]

I wanna go with Performer or Keyser out of what's been offered.

Feels like it's more likely to be right on Keyser.
If Keyser is town, then it's mechanically better to take a lynch at Performer instead (and also I can't be bothered dealing with the backlash of "omg we have no town PRs now" if that is the case which is just an exhausting sentiment to read.

I think that Performer's read progression on me has been hedgy, I thought that his followup on me voting Creature D1 was unmotivated, looking at this specific sequence of posts (1947, 2143), which I thought was an odd response to someone voting your scum read that you think everyone else isn't catching. I'm not 100% sold on it but at the same time he hasn't been that cooperative with giving any indication wrt post-N1-Creature thoughts, but he may have just been adjusting to a scum read of me. Mechanically lynching a 1-shot bulletproof is probably better than an odd-night gunsmith, which is why the early role claim of 1-shot BP annoyed me if coming from town. Honestly I've been pretty wish washy with him, but like I know that the way Performer thinks about things will lead to a scum read on me so I'm not going to say go.

I feel like Keyser has purposefully approached my information in a malicious way that I don't feel good about at all. Like they're holding onto their scum chip of me unless I out my information. Feels like they're already angling to discredit whatever I come out with, in a way that doesn't feel natural. His read progression on me has felt traditionally scum-esque - pop in with an early townread while avoiding direct engagement then letting it progress into a scumread as everyone else looks towards me. I think he's "testing" my read of him (3390, 3396, 3397) (3922) in a way that feels like he's trying to get a feel of the plays he can try to make dependent on what my info actually is.

@Xtoxm, why does Mew ever vote Performer over Key, despite this?

If I am Mew here, my vote is on Key not Performer. Something isn’t adding up here.

for mechanical reasons.
i'm not looking to convince you of anything here.
i'm mild-gut-towning on mew.
but i could be wrong.
if you want me to vote him.
ask me to vote him.
that's all!

[Xtoxm]

Can you see why it looks to me like you're pocketing Varsoon with that vote rather than genuinely scumhunting?

i guess i can see this as a thought process yeah.

[Xtoxm]

What do you think of Nancy's townread on you? Her actual reasoning? Is she townreading you for valid reasons?

i think they were initially weak. when she first called me town for talking about brownie pts i thought that would be really easy to fake as scum. but later reasons such as my defending keyser and talking openly are absolutely valid reasons.

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: Mew

[Xtoxm]

@nauci

1. Xtom's early scumread on me doesn't come from the perspective of someone actually trying to sort my alignment. Compare Xtom's read with Performer's, for example. Performer actually traces specific behaviors that lead to a scumread, whereas Xtom just says he doesn't like the early townreads. Yet he ignores everyone else who's been giving out early townreads, which suggests that he's not actually concerned about players giving out early townreads; there's an ulterior reason he's scumreading me. I think the most plausible explanation for Xtom's early play is that he scumread me as part of a

scum agenda to pocket Varsoon

(see, for example, his early post to Varsoon about "hoping they're on the same team this game") as well as to keep me available as a mislynch.

2. Xtom's emotions don't feel natural for a townie. For example, he expresses emotions of

disgust towards the early parts of the game where lots of players were giving out townreads

("disgust" isn't a natural townie emotion to seeing lots of townreads). I can point to numerous places where Xtom's emotions feel too strong or unnatural for the events that are happening. The emotions also don't square with his sort of emotionless attitude towards actual scumhunting.

3. Xtom's

reads are entirely survivalistic

. If you townread him, he townreads you. If you scumread him, he scumreads you. This isn't how town Xtom thinks, because town Xtom assumes that most townies are wrong about their reads. His

lack of paranoia about the players townreading him, as well as his consistent scumreads on the players scumreading him, comes from a scum agenda, not from a genuine attempt to sort alignments

. What is his scum agenda? It depends on the alignments of Performer/Key/Mew/Mitillos. Whatever their alignments, there's a clear scum agenda to Xtom's reads. Most importantly,

he's putting easily manipulated townies (e.g. Nancy, Varsoon) towards the top of his reads (especially Varsoon, who he's been actively pocketing from the start of the game)

. And he's setting certain players up as potential mislynches (me, Performer, Mitillos). He lists strong townies somewhere in the middle (e.g. the worst, Nauci), with occassional attempts to move them lower on his readslist (e.g. his attempt to scumread Nauci).

4. Xtom's still has me as his

top scumread

. I don't believe a townie ever scumreads me in this game to that extent, not after the way I've been playing, not after Irrelephant's defense of me or after Irrelephant's death, not after everyone who knows my town/scum meta strongly townreads me. It's fine to have some irrational paranoia about me, but listing me as a top scumread runs counter to everything that's actually happening in the game. It's very

unlikely that town Xtom genuinely trying to sort me sticks with me as their top suspect while not actually pushing me

. It reminds me of scum NSG in TAZ Mafia. She kept saying I was scummy without pushing me, biding her time until LYLO, when I got mislynched. I get the sense that Xtom's doing something similar, trying to keep me open as a mislynch while doing nothing to actually push me when my lynch isn't going to happen. If he actually thinks I'm most likely to flip scum, why isn't he pushing me more?

5. Xtom's won lots of games as scum.

He's a lot more competent scum than most players in this game give him credit for

. Clearing him for superficial reasons isn't helpful. His actions need to be looked at very carefully.

yknow looking at point 1 i do have to kinda admit most of it. my reason for voting her at the start was kind of shit. but i thought we already hashed this out? and now its being brought back up out of context.
i don't appecriate the notion that ive been trying to pocket varsoon. i would rather just go for a n1 nk on someone who knows me well than try to build a pocket, but i do see why people could be suspicious of the possibility.

[Xtoxm]

yknow looking at point 1 i do have to kinda admit most of it. my reason for voting her at the start was kind of shit. but i thought we already hashed this out? and now its being brought back up out of context.
i don't appecriate the notion that ive been trying to pocket varsoon. i would rather just go for a n1 nk on someone who knows me well than try to build a pocket, but i do see why people could be suspicious of the possibility.

Does this mean you only took issue with the portions talking about you?

correct.

[Xtoxm]

i think she actually makes good points about mit and i do have a scumread on that slot.

[Xtoxm]

Imo Xtoxm needs to get over the fact you are just not scum and this many people aren't wrong

some of it is that im just not going to let someone deathtunnel me like this without pushback.
its not fun being deathtunneled.

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: Mitillos
I agree.

i want to join you here but i feel like its too soon to abandon Nancy after she asked em to vote Mew.
get this wagon rolling tho and im in.