Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[Keyser Söze]

Thanks for finally town reading me LabRat x

[the worst]

Ima0, if v0Ix fIips scum the game is 0ver, s0 his Iynch cann0t be inf0rmative in any way
if y0u're g0nna think ab0ut the next heaven phase y0u can as weII assume that he'II fIip t0wn
but yeah, he has t0 get Iynched, I reaIIy h0pe that'II be a scum Iynch tbh

me too ye but if he does green I think Eragon is like locked as the Heaven 3 lynch

I'd say the rest has to be {you, Ausuka} tho. like I would only want Keyser in judgement day because I don't think I'd ever lynch him

[LabRat01]

Thanks for finally town reading me LabRat x

yw

[LabRat01]

Ima0, if v0Ix fIips scum the game is 0ver, s0 his Iynch cann0t be inf0rmative in any way
if y0u're g0nna think ab0ut the next heaven phase y0u can as weII assume that he'II fIip t0wn
but yeah, he has t0 get Iynched, I reaIIy h0pe that'II be a scum Iynch tbh

me too ye but if he does green I think Eragon is like locked as the Heaven 3 lynch

I'd say the rest has to be {you, Ausuka} tho. like I would only want Keyser in judgement day because I don't think I'd ever lynch him

hehe, gIad t0 hear that

n0t gIad t0 hear the rest th0ugh :/ but that's f0r Iater anyways, idek if I sh0uId even try t0 argue ab0ut that rn

[the worst]

I don't think so either; I don't think I can solve this from heaven without a volxen flip and I don't trust him to be heaven'd

[LabRat01]

K, gI with that. G0ing t0 sIeep

[volxen]

The last remaining scum is either Labrat or Ausuka. I seriously don't know why you are townreading those two TW.

Hopefully Keyser can lead us to victory.

[the worst]

Volxy if you spent less time shading me for being bad and more time talking to me about why you think you're right I'd be overjoyed

[the worst]

eh you can't talk to me

@Keys/Era I'm trusting you guys to be hypercritical of volxen even though he's townreading you.

[volxen]

eh you can't talk to me

@Keys/Era I'm trusting you guys to be hypercritical of volxen even though he's townreading you.

Look I don't know which one of {Labrat, Ausuka} is scum yet, but I'm townreading both Keyser and Eragon strongly enough to know it's not either of them. So by POE I know one of {Ausuka, Labrat} is scum. You are confirmed town at this point unless you are trolling all of us post Heaven hammer.

What's wrong with my approach exactly? I could either directly scumhunt, or I can townhunt + POE. You yourself seem to townhunt + POE often enough, so I don't know whats unreasonable about me coming to the conclusion that one of {Ausuka, Labrat} is scum via my strong townreads on {Keyser, Eragon}. That being said, when I get some time I will look more at Ausuka and Labrat to try and get a more definitive read on both of them, but at this point I am 99.99% convinced that one of them is scum. Period.

[volxen]

And also @TW, if you agree with me on my Keyser and Eragon townreads (which I guess you do since you talked about sending Eragon to Heaven?), then what is wrong with me concluding that one of {Ausuka, Labrat} is scum, given that I know I am town?

What are you wanting from me exactly? I know I'm town, I'm convinced that Keyser and Eragon are both town, you are presumed confirm town at this point, which leaves only two people who can be scum.

If we lose to scum!Labrat or scum!Ausuka I am seriously going to be disappointed, because it's obvious to me that one of them is scum and there is no reason for town to lose this.

[volxen]

@TW if I do end up getting lynched, who do you think is more likely out of {Labrat, Ausuka} to be scum? Please let us know that while you are still able to post here.

[ManateeDude]

Did you know?

Red pandas can tasta artificial sweeteners

Votecount 4.03

the worst (4) - Eragon, volxen, the worst, LabRat01
Keyser Söze (1) - Keyser Söze
Not Voting - Ausuka

the worst has been lynched! He was...

Spoiler:

A Vanilla Townie

Time till end of hell phase 3: (expired on 2018-12-11 20:55:00)

[Eragon]

Assume that both me and Keyser are confirmed town.
Eragon
Volxen
Labrat
Ausuka
Keyser

That leaves 3/5 people left
Volxen
Labrat
Ausuka


We are currently in HELL PHASE, meaning lynching for scum.

So Lynch one of those three, lets just say we Lynch volxen for simplicity sake and he flips town

That leaves
Eragon
Keyser
Ausuka
Labrat

Again assuming me and Keyser are town,
Ausuka and Labrat are the only scum possible

Then in heaven phase, we put one of me/keyser to heaven, obviously. We can decide when we get there.

Lets say we Lynch me, leaving
Keyser
Ausuka
Labrat

With 1 scum remaining.

And its back to the hell phase

Lets say they Lynch ausuka, If ausuka is scum, game over, if ausuka is town, game goes to

JUDGEMENT DAY

With a 1v1 between

Labrat

And

Keyser

(honestly fitting based on how D1/D2 went lmao)

Meaning the town in heaven will send LabRat to hell, and unless Keyser is scum, we still win

No matter what we do, as long as keyser is town(and me from your perspective) this game is 100% auto-win for town

btw sorry for not being active, and dont expect much more in the next couple of days.
im busy as fuck and trying to semi-retire from FM in general

[volxen]

@Eragon, yes, I think Keyser should be one of the last two people left because he is a universal townread. If the last two people left are {Keyser, X}, it's like a 99.99% certainty the marytr's will choose to lynch X over Keyser, which means the only way town loses is if Keyser is scum. So we should never send Keyser to Heaven. This is also why I wanted to send TW over Keyser to Heaven in the end.

I guess in the end the other lynches/mislynches don't matter, but I honestly think we will just outright win if we lynch Labrat or Ausuka today. I still think I may have been correct with my initial scumread of Labrat, but I will have to look over her ISO and interactions again.

[Keyser Söze]

Congrats guys, crucial heaven phase there.

Wellplayed TW too, and mending our D1 differences x



Yes, I agree with me staying in the game to endgame now.
We actually have to put in some work today though as yesterday was very lazy by everyone (me included).

[LabRat01]

0mg, FINAIIY
aII 0f my exams ended
man, the reIief… I feeI Iike I couId just start dancing ar0und
aII 0f that was way ab0ve what I c0uId handIe

[LabRat01]

and I’m seri0usIy c0nsidering reveaIing my aIt :/ my keyb0ard is br0ken and I’d Iike t0 j0in a game with my main in a few days, s0 it’d be kinda 0bvi0us anyways…
but idk, I’II have t0 think ab0ut it a bit m0re. ngI, I’m n0t very happy t0 d0 that

[LabRat01]

anyways, I’m s0rry if I’m being an ass rn, but I’d Iike t0 quick-Iynch v0Ixen
the game isn’t IikeIy t0 pr0gress in any way if Ieft aI0ne im0 and I d0ubt I wiII be abIe t0 get a better SR even if I finish reading the muIti-IS0 t0day
tbh it feeIs Iike d0ing anything rn wiII just end up being a waste 0f time, which is reaIIy dem0tivating

[LabRat01]

and I d0ubt I said anything ab0ut V0Ix's Iast p0sts in Heav2, becuase I was stiII 0ut 0f the game back then, but man, just I00king at it makes me reaIIy unwiIIing t0 c0nsider Iynching any0ne eIse

[LabRat01]

That's OK, net of all things I'm kinda predisposed towards townreading you here (that's a problem in itself which I think you can probably appreciate zzzz) it's just there's a lot of spice following the fact we nailed and lynched Irrelephant who is Good Scum :D

does you not being heavy town to me impact your read on my alignment? => why/why not?

@TW, in this post I pointed out how both you and Irrelephant give me an "easy" townread after I made my first five posts in the game. Irrelephant gave me the townread before you did:

-snip-

Do you think Irrelephant is more likely to give me an "easy" townread like that If I am scum or town? I known I'm town, and it came across to me like he chose me to be one of his townreads beforehand because he knew it would be easy for him to justify his townread of me. I found it suspicious -- even more suspicious than your initial "easy" townread of me -- because his only previous experience with me was Watcher Wanted (where I was scum) and Newbie 1894 (where I was town). Whereas you and I have played together in Newbie 1885 (where I was town), Newbie 1888 (where I was town), Watcher Wanted (where I was scum), and Newbie 1894 (where I was town). You have a lot more experience playing with me (especially with playing with

town me

) than Irrelephant does, which is why your "easy" townread of me is more believable than Irrelephant's. You've seen town!me in three different games, Irrelephant has only seen it in one, and yet he almost instantly declared me as town in this game.

Do you really think Irrelephants treatment of my slot is more likely SvS rather than TvS/buddying?

Iike that

G0d seri0usIy, if this isn’t scum-m0tivated, then I d0n’t kn0w what is
It 0bvi0usIy feeIs as if he wasn’t very interested in s0rting TW, but just wanted t0 sh0wcase his interacti0ns with Irre s0 that TW can see them again

[LabRat01]

ok...so you have 1 townread when except Dr. J who is flipped scum in a 9p game with 6 town...?

can you throw me a tiered read list with some reasoning please? we have two lynches left before judgement day and can send two people to heaven who need to make a correct decision.

I don't have a tiered reads list at the moment, but I'm going to look through Irrelephant's and Dr. J's ISO's to look for associatives that may reveal the last scum.

So here are all of Irrelephant's tiered reads list:

Spoiler:

...
I don't think you're scum here. You're right that it died somewhere between 547 and 552
Also I went back to re-read American Presidents and I think I was conflating it with your play in Watchmen Wanted. You have a few tonal moments of similarity, but you're right that it is probably mostly personality

idk that you've ever as town said that "nibbling at the back of my skull" thing (which I think you have said this game) but I doubt I just found a magical tell for you, so... great!

{me}
{tw,

volxen, DrJ

}
{labrat}
{Carmen, lefty} - null
{keyser}
{creature}

Spoiler:

okay actually a few thoughts before I go because the game isn't playable without all slots talking:

I still think tw is probably town, I just didn't feel good post-creature flip about his strong push there. But otoh the intensity of his push rang towny (not sure tw gets that intense against a friend just for a d1 mislynch), and imo creature was playing scummy anyway. Eh I still have bad feelings here, but the game makes more sense to me if he's town
Ausuka made some good points about volxen's play that, especially depending on who volxen is scum with, bring volxen back toward possible-scum, even though I still lean town for him too. Ausuka is also very bold if scum, challenging commonly held ideas.
Keyser/eragon always has a scum, possibly two. Keyser seems overeager to throw shade, eragon seem undereager to solve, both have strong scumgames and I wouldn't put it past them to manage to both be offwagon
I have literally no clue what to do with labrat because I've seen p much nothing from the slot d2 and only remember the keyser push from d1

Hot take: DrJ is the townie with the worst reads so far, which is why he is easy to wagon this game phase. Paranoid about the very popular push to Heaven them, but maybe scum are just looking to lynch townies in every phase idk.

Something like:
{me}
{the worst}
{

volxen

, ausuka,

DrJ

}
{labrat} - null
{keyser, eragon}

ausuka should maybe be a scumread, I haven't had time to analyze trajectory, just getting town from the bold play
I'm mentally on page 51, so do with this what you will

Spoiler:

{keyser, volxen}
{the worst}
{labrat}
--
{eragon, ausuka}

I searched Irrelephant's ISO for the "{" character, so I believe those are all of his tiered reads list from the beginning of the game up until his lynch. Notice how I have not only always been a townread for him,

but he also always had Dr. J and I at the same level in his tiers

.

TW you earlier said that scum usually don't put both of their partners in the same tier:

But in practice it's pretty rare to see both teammates in the same tier

Which is interesting, because Dr. J had you and Irrelephant in the same tier in that reads list, and Irrelephant had Dr. J and I in the same tier in all of his reads list. I think it's more likely that Irrelephant had his other partner as a nullread or a scumread.

Do you think this is suggestive of us both being town? If not, why do you think scum!Irrelephant would be inclined to not only townread both of his partners, but also put them both at the same tier level in his reads list, which you said yourself is rare?

I'll search Dr. J's ISO for the "{" character and look through all of his reads list so we can cross reference Dr. J's tiered reads lists with Irrelephant's tiered reads lists. I'm thinking that neither of them are likely to have listed both of their partners as townreads.

And that just feeIs bad
He said he’s g0nna I00k thr0ugh DrJ’s and Irre’s IS0 t0 find the Iast scum, yet he ign0red that and went just f0r distancing/seIf-TRing again
I mean, it’s n0t weird t0 just sp0ntane0usIy think 0f arguments that make y0u t0wn, but that p0st was just s0 Iacking

And I find it kinda c0nvenient h0w he remembered TW’s p0st just at the right m0ment
The game was very active at the beginning and I rareIy see pIayers remembering the exact qu0te + pers0n wh0 said that+where t0 I00k f0r it, when they have n0 reas0n t0 f0cus 0n that specificaIIy
the p0st didn't even seem Iike a seri0us read
And TW’s IS0 is en0rm0us, s0 I d0ubt he w0uId have f0und the qu0te easiIy with0ut kn0wing exactIy what t0 I00k f0r

I mean, I might be 0veranaIyzing it, but it kinda feeIs Iike he was preparing t0 use that argument f0r a I0ng time, cuz he did care ab0ut that interacti0n read since when TW p0sted it

[LabRat01]

So I searched Dr. J's ISO for the "{" character and this was his only reads list:

-snip-

Dr. J put you, Ausuka, and Irrelephant at the same tier in his single reads list.

While Dr. J was alive, Irrelephant was consistent about putting both Dr. J and I at the same tier in his first two reads lists. In Irrelephant's first reads list he also put you in the same tier as Dr. J, and in his second reads list he put Ausuka at the same tier as Dr. J.

So how much stock do you put in your theory that scum would not put both of their partners in the same tier in their reads lists? Because if that's the case then you, Ausuka, and I are all very unlikely to be scum.

the rest 0f his arguments are rather unimpressive
he seemed t0 reaIIy want t0 depend 0n that 0ne reas0ning and seemed t0 be kind 0f unwiIIing t0 decide stuff 0n his 0wn

[LabRat01]

sorry dude I need you to find scum not towncase yourself

the { bracket tell is also a really broad tell and isn't like, something that's particularly reliable in practice. the moment scum know not to do it they start doing it etc. it's less common than putting all your buddies in different brackets but that absolutely doesn't mean I can afford to townread someone exclusively off their position in someone's read list

I'm markedly more interesting in hearing who you think reds here and how we use our last two mislynches. but while we're on the subject do you think there were exchanges between you and rel which are highly unlikely to come from scumbuddies?

I find it interesting that you would state that it's "pretty rare" when Keyser quoted Dr. J's reads list showing you in the same tier as Irrelephant, but when I show two reads lists from Irrelephant where I'm listed in the same tier as Dr. J it's meaningless? You don't get to have it both ways TW. Don't be hypocritical because I will call you out on it.

I mean either it's "pretty rare" for scum to list both of their partners in the same tier or it isn't. If isn't something that's reliable, then why did you even say that in response to Keyser quoting Dr. J's reads list showing you in the same tier as Irrelephant?

Why can't town!TW come up with any other explanation besides "this is scum!Volxen being coached by Irrelephant?"

There’s n0thing reaIIy in there, but I find it reaIIy weird that he w0uId taIk Iike that t0 s0me0ne he TRs en0ugh t0 send him t0 heaven
Iike, c’m0n, it just d0esn’t w0rk this way

[LabRat01]

idek if that's a panic reacti0n, 0r what, but it feeIs just scummy