Mini 2039: uPicketyPicketyPick Mafia Endgame

[Nibbui]

Oh, I finally found a game where we can fakeclaim to our hearts's content!

VOTE: ChibiBear

People with cute avatars can't be trusted!!

[Nibbui]

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

@Nibbui, why do you believe infinite fakeclaiming is less reprehensible/whatever you believe here?

Hi there Gamma

It's not about being reprehensible or not, I wanted to do it just because it's fun!! :'D

Seriously speaking though it's more of a pun since I love fakeclaiming as scum, but since I rolled town I might need to hold myself

Oh, also I have a xmas gift for you

VOTE: Gamma

[Nibbui]

So uh...what’s the pun? I see a rhyme, but no pun.

It's for myself, I'm egocentric enough for that yes

And thank you for your gift, I like votes of many kinds. Unfortunately votes on town are disliked so that sours the feeling a little.

[Nibbui]

The alternative is to just let people complete their missions on their own. My problem with that is, I don't know about any of y'all but,

the process of my quest isn't helpful to the town. (Whereas if I told you what it was, it could easily be achieved without any consequences)

.

I mean, if this is what I think it is, it kinda sounds like a scum quest to be honest.

I don't see why you would say that so easily though, I would expect you to be aware that it was a not-so-good-looking quest so...

maybe it's kinda a nice intention after all?

dunno :/

[Nibbui]

It's not necessarily "anti-town", but let's look at an example:

A quest that is about being put on L-1 that day but surviving.

It's not "anti-town" in the sense that will do permanent damage to town or anything, it just kinda looks like a scum quest.

Idk if it's a good idea to claim quests, because it may end up revealing what kind of role townies might have while scum can maybe fakeclaim?

Like, maybe it's not a bad idea but it's something to be thought a lot before doing. Also, although I'm quite confident that at least one scum may have a scummy quest, I dunno if all of them have scummy quests at all.

Also, sometimes townies may have a not-so-good-looking quest as well, it can happen that maybe someone with a quest similar to my example is town, and then not only would we be giving scum a lot of info, we would be clinging in to a sloppy rope.

JJH spent a lot of time doing the quests and setup, I wouldn't be confident that there is such a cheesy way to go about scum hunting.

If we get to know the quest of someone by other means though, it might not be a bad idea to wonder if it's scummy or not.

[Nibbui]

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

[Nibbui]

Wait why is that the first thing you could come up with?

Why do you think I came up with that first?

Exposure: I had that exact quest in a game I replaced into in order to make my role better. So I thought you read that game and saw it, or you were in it on another account.

Yeah, but that's not it to be honest, I naturally thought of it when thinking about not-so-good-looking quests, it's a pretty easy quest to come up with.

[Nibbui]

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

[Nibbui]

nvm it's probably too soon for that

back to shitposting

[Nibbui]

VOTE: nk15

is there a reason for this?

(along with his entrance being just sort of awkward enough for me to want to do so)

yeah I was like

"if someone asked me who we should burn just based on entrance posts maybe NK15 wasn't a bad option huh"

but that's not a "reason" that we can discuss

voting NK15 would be the most likely to have some sort of effect in helping sort him

Mmmmh, maybe I'm being slow and I don't get it, but why? do you perhaps have experience playing with him?

[Nibbui]

I'll help you with that as well

VOTE: NK15

[Nibbui]

maybe and just maybe NSG is town.

I feel as if I've only seen her as town recently so I'm a bit afraid here though

[Nibbui]

i got my wiki up to date if you want to do more reading.

Oh, that might help.

My to-do reading list is a bit rough here though, lots of people I don't have experience with or haven't seen enough of them.

Are you activity telling me again -_-
I just read your PT for the coalition, and I object to the idea of a straight activity read. You can try to read me on engagement, I engage in different ways as town and scum I feel. But you can’t just try activity read me like Creature (which doesn’t work either).

It's still amusing for me when you frequently post though (later or in the middle of the game)

it kinda feels like there is a elephant in the room and we might need to address it

[Nibbui]

Nibbui replaces Carcalilly

This is that shit I don't like. The WHOLE point of this game is that it's a U-PICK where YOU PICK the roles.
I can't fathom why someone would want to play as characters they DID NOT PICK.

I mean, you're overemphasing this a bit? If someone wasn't open-minded enough to like all kind of roles and instead wanted only to play very specific roles, we probably wouldn't play mafia game?

I mean, most of the time you don't get to choose what role or alignment you're going to play as. I replaced in because I wanted a more mechanical complex setup and I indeed wanted to fake claim or do some kind of gambit if I got to roll scum (I've a good time doing it).

Also, about the question if it was my pick or Carcalilly's pick, it was Carcalilly's I guess because I didn't get to pick anything. If there is info that Carcalilly should know and I don't, maybe we can fix that with the mod just telling me that particular info?

Your wall kinda...mmmmh, sorry to say this, but sounds a bit cherrypick at times? maybe it's because you needed to comment on all of that or something, but yeah, I'm not answering most of those questions or going to quote weird parts of it because idk what to do with it, it's too long and idk if this is common coming from you.

My vote on Chibi was really random though, and I voted Gamma to see if would keep asking questions and etc. By the way NSG pointing out her wiki for me, if I stretch it, might be very slightly town indicative but I feel that's just NAI. I think she said that because she knows I read and enjoy a lot of her games and games from people I find good as a certain alignment in hope of trying to learn something. Also I had just implied that I needed to see a recent game of hers as scum.

[Nibbui]

When I saw Nibbui come to the same conclusion I thought it was pretty cool since I'm not usually any good at logical deductions, but since he also came up with the same thing, that means my logic was probably sound

I feel successfully pocketed

can I town read you already?

[Nibbui]

actually nvm

I thought that if I said I was beginning to town read you as nonchalantly like that, if you said "sure" just as nonchalantly I would give you town points but...

It's page 6 so ofc you gotta question why or find it unnatural :/

[Nibbui]

can we like...NOT quote Varsoon post?

It's already bad enough to skip it on pc, I don't want to even imagine what it's like to the guys using mobile

just say in the begin "Varsoon wallpost" or quote the specific part you want to talk, or something.

Quoting that isn't a good idea.

Also, remove the wall when quoting the last post of NK15 please :/

[Nibbui]

Which is kinda the problem with the claim here - openly claiming this is actually quite dumb for town, and MariaR isn't dumb.
No, this claim came from Mafia.

I mean, I get your point about Maria and that's something I thought as well.
However I can as well see town intentions to her post...maybe. Can you see it as well?
Also, try to not say anything that can possibly hurt town when answering this.

[Nibbui]

I'm simply flufflying here to try to get to the next page because this wall is just too big and the page is kinda broken and I don't want to scroll this again :/

Let's see what I can post here...

December fun facts#1

Xmas cakes are pretty nice, and although I don't know if it's normal in other countries here we have a mix of Cake and Ice cream although it's not so popular.

They are the best.

[Nibbui]

I'm only going to be posting like this when people quote my entire wall posts.
Otherwise, I can post normally.
My first post of the game was to be a wall post like that.
As you can see, I goofed that up, but eventually got to it.
I'd prefer to be able to just post normally.

I'm aware a lot of my first wall was fluff. I apologize for that.
I do care about my questions and expect responses but if they don't come, I won't blame people, really.
Like, I don't fully expect every player to read every one of these walls in their entirety.

I do think I'm taking the game more seriously than most, especially the people STILL fluffposting about dancing.
But we're only on page 6, and you're right, a lot of that content that I viewed as AI might just be RVS rubbish.
That said, I'd argue EVERYTHING can be Alignment Indicative and that RVS posts do hold weight.
Just not as much as later posts might.

People who prescribe to an 'RVS is meaningless' philosophy strip it of any use and allow scum to hide in that.
I ain't bout it.

I do like this part of the wall a lot. It felt very genuine, and now I get why people say that Varsoon is a charismatic guy.

Varsoon, about your question "if it's possible to locktown someone as page 6", It's kinda dependent of the player we are locking. For example I usually

almost

locktown NSG depending of her early posts but sometimes I kinda feel that I can be locktowned even earlier than her depending on how I play the game. In Open 720 by I think page 14 or something I was very town read, in Lynch the Wolves I was very town read as well by I think page 20 or 25 and in a marathon game in the first pages I was town read by almost everyone.

In all those games I was town

However! I think I improved a lot my tone (what was my biggest weakness as scum) so I'm not sure how fluid my actual scum play would be compared to before. But yeah you can hard town read me

in this game

and I won't find it that much weird

locking me as town in page 6 is a bit strong though, but well I can see where you're coming from.

Game aside, I had write one more fluffly post to get to the next page but NK15 beat me to it. I'll let it here though if someone like my fun facts section.

Spoiler:

December fun facts#2

I live in a tropical country so I always get sad when I realize that we're in christmas's month but not only there's no snow, it's hot as f***

I like cold. I wish I lived in a colder place or at least one that actually had winter.

[Nibbui]

Hello I need to be added to any type of PT thank you.

came right after the third vote of three valid votes(jjh votes obv. don't count) against Firebringer, especially directly behind the one that quoted the atrocious post 12(the third voting post),

and could be easily a panic reaction to divert interest

.

Mmmmh, do you think that those votes on Fire in RVS would cause panic in their hypothetical partners or even on Fire himself?

I mean, they're experienced players...

I'm open to discuss though

[Nibbui]

I always read those Afterwords with meaningless talk about trivial things in light novels/novels and found it to be quite amusing. I tried it here for once and...

I might have become more fond of fun facts than I should...

I wonder what to do with that feeling.

I wonder what to do with me wanting to fluffly post as well, just yesterday I was taking things more seriously.

VOTE: Fire

[Nibbui]

I'm not voting Fire for the same reasons as NK15 at all to be honest

I don't want to disclose why I'm voting on him rn though

Also yes, we should probably not lynch anyone before solving the minigame.

[Nibbui]

We should form a band

What's going to be its name?

[Nibbui]

I think I like Varsoon more than I like Mutant

[Nibbui]

I think I like Varsoon more than I like Mutant

Did you have any other picks in mind.

NSG but I don't feel strong there yet, I think I like Varsoon more than NSG right now.

I should see what Varsoon scum game looks like though, maybe I'm being a bit impulsive here.

Like really we're on page 8 and I feel like nothing meaningful has transpired yet and I'm just really lost in a vast chasm of unending white noise

You're not the only one. We've only talked about a few topics and that's townreads and my role for the most part. It feels like nothing productive is happening but I don't know how to fix this issue at the same time besides outting a fake scumread. I would do so but the only people who that would most likely get results on I've already tr or know when I'm reaction testing.

we can pretend we hard scum read each other if you would like

look I'll even try being scummy and all self-important:

Hi Maria

you're scum.

VOTE: Maria

[Nibbui]

hop on team-

I mean town

she just slipped guys

easy peasy game, I'm too good at this.

keep the votes comin'

I should see what Varsoon scum game looks like though, maybe I'm being a bit impulsive here.

I've been pretty good at reading varsoon scum but I haven't seen varsoon town. The fact varsoon isn't pinging me yet makes me lean town. (I've caught him d1 and on d2 in 2 dif games if it helps)

that's some nice info!

Yeah, I felt that some parts of his posts feel genuine and engaged in the game.

How confident you're that you can read Kokichi?

[Nibbui]

i pretty strongly believe that all of nibbui, mutant and

elbirn

are town

Now I've got interested.

Do you think you can disclose why right now or would you rather wait a bit more?

[Nibbui]

Fire you're scum aren't u :/

Maria, I'll first lynch your buddy you see

VOTE: Fire

[Nibbui]

Fire why do you think that I think you're scum?

[Nibbui]

Fire why do you think that I think you're scum?

You think I’m scum?
I thought you wanted to make me president of mafia

I think you're scum AND wanted to make you president of mafia

actually, that vote also counts towards finally making you a listmod!

now that I've been such a nice guy to you, I've expectations that you'll turn yourself in nicely and tell us your buddies

I would be satisfied if you just did answer me though...yeah, that would be nice as well :/

[Nibbui]

Do you think town-kokichi picks the wrong person? Picked at random thered be better than average chance of selecting town, which I think you alluded to earlier

I don't like this part tbh

If we say to kokichi to select random, if he is scum he'll say that it was random but it probably would be his scum buddy.

There's advantage to leaving Kokichi to decide secretly himself who he should unlock though (and I don't see that crossing people mind), if we state in public which towny person will get unlocked, the chance that Mafia just kill them off for being widely town read + a unlocked TPR is kinda high, and in that way we simply end up kinda wasting one minigame.

However, I dunno about letting Kokichi win, don't really trust him that much.

Also, if we aren't leaving Kokichi to decide on his own, maybe using /heal/ to vote for who he should unlock isn't a bad idea?

[Nibbui]

mmmmh, multiple neighbourhood?

Maybe it's just a dumb thought but I kinda think there may be scum in one of them at least?

Should we disclose that info or it's better not to?

I don't see much of a downside to doing so but I don't know the details so maybe it can be hurtful to town.

[Nibbui]

all the neighbourhoods were generated after the game started.

Oh, I see.

I wasn't invited to any though, sad.

[Nibbui]

Also who is the utter T H O T who didn't add me to a neighborhood

Somebody masonize me those are fun

I'm a cult leader though can I recruit you tonight?

I promise my cult thread is a nice place to hang out

[Nibbui]

Also who is the utter T H O T who didn't add me to a neighborhood

Somebody masonize me those are fun

I'm a cult leader though can I recruit you tonight?

I promise my cult thread is a nice place to hang out

Yes considering my despair and dejection from society at large I am a ripe target for a murder cult this is fine[/quote]
we're having a communitary barbecue in N1

bring snacks.

@Radiant what is your experience with Varsoon and what is more or less your ratio of misreading/correctly reading him?

[Nibbui]

Varsoon talk with me

If I'm not wrong you said more or less that from all the content you posted it was reasonable to town read

what do you think you would be doing differently here as scum?

[Nibbui]

I wonder what kind of minigame it'll be and how it's going to work.

[Nibbui]

is the winner even going to be announced?

If the winner is going to be announced maybe we should let Kokichi win, vote HEAL: for who we want to unlock and if they aren't unlocked we lynch Kokichi.

If someone else wins as well we probably should lynch them in this model.

Even if Kokichi is scum, in a Scavanger hunt I suppose scum already have the upperhand anyway, the odds that they're going to be winning are pretty high.

But oh well, dunno. I'm fine either way tbh, I just want to lynch scum.

[Nibbui]

If the winner isn't announced I dunno about trying to let Kokichi win. Even if he wins first, we'll not know it and it'll probably only cause confusion.

[Nibbui]

No, Mutant.

We would be deciding who he empowers and in the next day we would confirm. It would be our choice, not kokichi, and therefore it would be unrelated to Kokichi's flip.

That's not the problem please. I already appointed the real difficulties I think.

I get that you want to play the minigames, but that argument sounds a bit intelectually dishonest of you.

[Nibbui]

If we do decide that we should just be letting Kokichi win here then the less we say about our opinions on it the better.

That way, a scum!kokichi has less information to go one when deciding if he should empower scum or town (the decision being based on whether he thinks we are all likely to want to lynch 1 on a scum flip of the other). But for now, I'm set on the idea of actively trying in this minigame. I'm not caught up yet so my opinion could change if I see a really strong mechanical case for it, but I doubt that'll happen.

VOTE: Mutant

I think you're scum right now tbh. I doubt that you can't see the problem with what you said here, even more when I actually already talked about that.

If we're letting Kokichi win, and we can only do that if the winner is publicly announced afterwards, we're going to vote by the HEAL: tag and who gets majority healing votes is the one to get unlocked.

[Nibbui]

Like, what you have been saying here is just too weird Mutant.

I don't even know how to fit it as a scum scheme or something yet, but definitely doesn't sound town to me.

[Nibbui]

It's not even about letting Kokichi win or not. It's how you're theorizing we should let Kokichi decide if we let him win.

If you're so suspicious of Kokichi being scum, I don't think it would be a good idea to let him decide for himself.

This game works by plurality vote and therefore I don't see a problem with deciding who gets unlocked by plurality votes.

Also, I indeed do not want to get unlocked because my role is simply kinda useless.

[Nibbui]

When was I saying that we should just let kokichi decided? I think you've misread my post because I never said that.

More or less here:

If we do decide that we should just be letting Kokichi win here then the less we say about our opinions on it the better.

If this isn't implying that we shouldn't restrict Kokichi choice Idk what it is.

This game doesn't work on plurality vote, it works on the majority. Plurality is just the most votes. That means if everyone has 1 vote each but one person has 2 votes then the person with 2 votes wins. If we empower someone who only 2 people think are town enough to be empowered then that completely defeats the point of having the vote.

With this post I can somewhat agree, it still would be better than letting Kokichi decide in any matter though. Too much WIFOM.

Just to clarify, are you saying you

know

what ability you'd unlock if you won the minigame? Because I'm only told which of my picks I'd unlock for doing so.

I mean, isn't something similar to my primary ability/role? Because if it is I have a good idea of what might be (even the flavour suggest so) and it's not useful at all.

[Nibbui]

Yeah I'm 100% against "leashing" the person who wins the minigame, Nibbui you can go kick rocks

When I said I'm actually wanting to do that?

I'm just saying that if majority agrees that Kokichi must win, we need to lynch anyone that steal the win.

I can't care less about this mechanical talk tbh.

[Nibbui]

Btw I forgot to mention. If I win a 2nd time I can unlock TWO more peoples roles.

I'm not sure what to make of this tbh. It's like it goes against the whole premise of having minigames if the optimal thing to do is just hand the win to Kokichi everytime to empower as many people as possible. Even if Kokichi is scum, this would force them to empower town as well. It's like the minigames are supposed to be Kokichi vs Scum. I don't disbelieve the claim, it just makes me think it's a trap. Maybe the trap is just that if we let Kokichi try to win than it reduces the chances town even wins in the first place. Think about it, 3 scum working against 1 town. Town can't work together because that just gives info to the scum. Whereas, every member of the town trying to win means that town has a higher probability of winning.

and that's why I'm here like:

1 - We only can let Kokichi win if the winner is publicly announced.

2 -IF majority agrees that Kokichi winning is advantageous, we need to lynch anyone that steals the win, because like you said, they can be scum.

In a certain way, letting Kokichi win here and voting on who to unlock is one of the best ways to make sure that towny people win and therefore that town has higher chances of winning, since scum has the natural advantage of having a private topic and being together.

However, we're on day 1 so it's hard to get good town reads, also, I particularly don't know how the minigame works (if the winner is announced or not). Then like...mmmh, whatever?

It's not hard to understand and I'm bored. I'll need to write some fluffly posts if this goes on.

[Nibbui]

Yeah I'm 100% against "leashing" the person who wins the minigame, Nibbui you can go kick rocks

When I said I'm actually wanting to do that?

I'm just saying that if majority agrees that Kokichi must win, we need to lynch anyone that steal the win.

I can't care less about this mechanical talk tbh.

The implication as I understood it was that we should be having a secondary vote on who gets the minigame power. I'm not about that. Let's all play the game and go from there.

Well, optimal or not I'm fine with that.

I was really saying what is optimal depending on what we choose, really. Playing the minigames sounds fun and I don't want to ruin other people enjoyment by not letting them play it.

[Nibbui]

The implication as I understood it was that we should be having a secondary vote on who gets the minigame power. I'm not about that. Let's all play the game and go from there.

I mean, if we do let kokichi win, then we are 100% doing the secondary vote. I'm currently under the impression that we are not letting kokichi win though.

Like, you

just

said some posts before that it would be better to let Kokichi somewhat choose from more or less a pool in the matter and that a plurality vote was bad, but now you're saying that if we let Kokichi win,

it's 100%

the secondary vote. You just changed of opinion?

Mutant, are you scum for real? :/

[Nibbui]

nibbui i think you're being silly and scumreading a mindset that you maybe just don't understand

yeah but in Open 720 Mutant started this setup talk and there he sounded just as intellectually dishonest as he sounded here to me.

I scum read him there right off the bat and surprisingly he really was scum.

I'm not saying this is the same case at all or that I'm good on reading Mutant's alignment, it can even be very silly indeed, but dunno, I don't feel good about it right now.

[Nibbui]

Also, some info:

I did PM JJH about whether the winner was publicly announced or not, and he said he can't answer that.

Until we discover about it, It may be better to not let Kokichi win at all I guess.

[Nibbui]

No, Mutant.

We would be deciding who he empowers and in the next day we would confirm. It would be our choice, not kokichi, and therefore it would be unrelated to Kokichi's flip.

That's not the problem please. I already appointed the real difficulties I think.

I get that you want to play the minigames, but that argument sounds a bit intelectually dishonest of you.

Nibbui, that's an awful plan and gives scum a roadmap of who our empowered PRs are so they can just kill them.
No thanks.

I already said that as well.

But I already said as well that we should only let Kokichi try to win if the winner is publicly announced. and if they're publicly announced, scum will know anyway who is the empowered PR.

[Nibbui]

Did you ask the mod if it was public or not?

@MOD: IS THE WINNER OF THE MINIGAME MADE PUBLIC OR NO?

He answered that question to me as "can't say".

Therefore, we shouldn't let Kokichi win today very probably.

Let's just forget about it today and move on I guess. Everyone plays to win.

[Nibbui]

Even if Kokichi is scum, in a Scavanger hunt I suppose scum already have the upperhand anyway, the odds that they're going to be winning are pretty high.

Could you explain this a little more please?

You realize that if I remember right you actually already had reached the same conclusion in a past post right? .-.

But ok, I can be wrong but sounds simply:

If all the minigame is about finding these 40 things, they can organize themselves to instead to unlock a certain scum buddy, and can divide searching 40 items by 2, 3 or 4. Therefore each of them have to only find around 14 items to make one of them win. That's a

huge

advantage.

Even if they could only divide it between 2, it would be a huge benefit.

They can even divide in less obvious ways if some of them aren't that active but I'm not going to give them info for free, even if it's easy to figure it out.

I don't see how a barely organized scumteam isn't winning this or at least coming very close to it.

It depends a lot though on how fast we can finish the minigame? if it's a matter of 1 hour to find everything, it's more a question of who is going to be online when the minigame start.

[Nibbui]

yeah but in Open 720 Mutant started this setup talk and there he sounded just as intellectually dishonest as he sounded here to me.

When I first read this post I thought you just read this game, but you were in it?

I'm the owner of the Fumuki/Yuurei accounts as well.

@Nibbui, as I understand it, you were scum reading me off of a miscommunication and we actually have near enough the same opinion on whether or not we should let Kokichi win. Now that I've better explained my thoughts, has your opinion changed or do you still think I'm scum for X reasons?

Furthermore, unless I've got the wrong impression, Elbirn has the exact opinion that you were scum reading me for:

Yeah I'm 100% against "leashing" the person who wins the minigame, Nibbui you can go kick rocks

The implication as I understood it was that we should be having a secondary vote on who gets the minigame power. I'm not about that.

So why aren't you criticising them?

1 - Their tone and way of saying it are very different and more straightfoward
2 - My problem with you wasn't about not letting Kokichi win, it was your thought process to come to that conclusion and how your plan in case that Kokichi won sounded. If you only had said the "I only want to play the minigame" part I wouldn't see a problem there at all.

[Nibbui]

Mutant, your condensed posts give me headaches honestly, it feels as if the discussion isn't progressing at all, but regressing.

and I think I said and felt a similar thing in Open 720 as well. However maybe you're just like that as town as well.

What sounded scummy to me was that you tried to make the idea of Kokichi a free win sound bad with misleading arguments or not-fully-thought arguments imo. What you seem to love to try to do as scum. Giving Kokichi the win here in certain conditions would be very helpful, and unhappily, we don't have these conditions at least for now. However, you tried to convince that it was a bad plan even before knowing or not if the winner was publicly announced.

It sounded your main reason for not wanting to let Kokichi win was something else, but you anyway tried to make it sound like it was a very rational and advantageous decision. As you did with the suggestion of the viggings back then.

In the end of the day I'm kinda tired of this talk tbh, I wish we would rather move somewhere else and let time dictate how I read you from now on.

[Nibbui]

Also, you can say that you meant this or that as much as you want, but when you said this:

If we do decide that we should just be letting Kokichi win here then the less we say about our opinions on it the better.

It seemed to not have the nicest of intentions. But I'll take NSG's advice and not focus on this now. Let's keep going and who knows, I might town read you.

[Nibbui]

and sorry if I was rude, it wasn't my intention, however sometimes it happens in mafia games I guess.

[Nibbui]

{northsidegal}
{Nibbui, mutantdevle}
{Gamma Emerald, ChibiBear}
{Elbirn, Varsoon}
{NK15, Maria, RC, Kokichi, NR} - null
{Firebringer}

why did Elbirn drop on the list?

You said before you were feeling pretty good about your town read on him?

[Nibbui]

mmmmh, congrats RC?

31 minutes sure is fast.

idk if he got help or not though, it's clearly possible to win against scum if you do it fast when it comes, however he said that he started on 0:08 (Chibi said that the real time is 20 min?)...that's kinda real fast...

Now that we know the winner is publicly announced (and I have no idea why JJH didn't say so from the beginning? maybe it's optional to be declared the winner?), it may be optimal to let Kokichi win however...

Well, you guys seem to be having fun so screw it, I think it's more enjoyable if everyone plays I guess.

[Nibbui]

Varsoon and Radiant, we're almost in christmas

before you get angry, remember all the tasty food we'll be having this month

There. I just calmed down you guys, didn't I?

you shouldn't understimate christmas's power after all huh.

[Nibbui]

Dunno

I don't really feel scum!FB strongly at all but if there is no better options for today...

What do you think of Fire here, Radiant?

[Nibbui]

Portgas D. Ace is awesome.

You wanna contribute or you wanna get lynched?

both is fine as well.

[Nibbui]

I don't really feel scum!FB strongly at all but if there is no better options for today...

Do you have anyone you would rather lynch over Fire though? I am also not against lynching Fire, although my read of him is

far

from any sort of solid scum read, I feel that the chances of him flipping scum are at least 50%, and also, a flip from him I reckon might help me to sort a few people.

maybe Nico if she's going for the lurk route?

Idk, it's been plenty of time but unless I missed something she didn't even gave us one read and if she keeps this up she would probably need to die before LyLo? (and if she is town she's not going to get NK without a very good reason that is unlikely to exist).

I'm quite confused about my reads on some players and have become considerably disinterested in Mafia.

Honestly? Chibi I wouldn't town read you normally, and it's very questionable my read on you, but for now I'll put you on my town list because it is actually quite empty...

It's been hard to take a stance on the Varsoon vs RC thing and what the slots it seems to affect a bit like NSG and Fire.

Mutant and Elbirn although have some town posts, have some posts that shake the read consistency.

Gamma, Kokichi and Maria haven't said enough for me to get a good read on them.

Yeah, all I've got is a superficial town read on you and a very not-confident town lean on NSG.

VOTE: Nico

Yeah, I want Nico for now I guess.

[Nibbui]

We're resolving me and Varsoon today

I would rather not honestly.

I like Nico personally, but I think she's the best lynch here. There's no logic reason to let the slot alive when there's potential for the slot to be scum, and if it's town they can't be correctly read or produce content to the game. Plus, scum can use her as a way to evade their lynch in late game.

I'm voting Nico unless you guys give me good reasons to do otherwise.

Varsoon said that he never picked a fight as scum for example, what do you have to say about that?

Also, I kinda like one of your recent posts but not gonna tell which yet, although I think you're more than smart enough to maybe do that to get town read if you're scum.

[Nibbui]

a lazy counterwagon.

It's not as lazy as you may think it is.

That is all I'm going to say for now.

[Nibbui]

Listen to me

Varsoon is dying today

If you want me to trust NSG's townread on you over my meh read on you don't be on a counterwagon, yeah?

This game I'm actually ready to headbutt on that with you tbh Radiant.

I have a reason here, and I particularly think a good one.

However I may be lacking interest in the game to tryhard...

[Nibbui]

Spit your reasons out so I can explain why you're wrong.

haha

as confident as ever. I'm becoming fond of that part of you tbh, as long as we don't get on personal attacks.

Anyway, if I could explain I would, but if I explain people aren't going to act as I want and expect they to act.

If you want to go ahead though I won't mind so much on second thought. I'm kinda down right now.

[Nibbui]

Carry on talking to me like you know I'm town and giving me more ammunition when it's time for you to be judged for your actions in this game.

Are you saying that to me or Varsoon here?

If it's about me, nowadays I just like to talk to people as if they're town until proved otherwise, independent of my alignment. I don't have confidence on anything usually so I don't want to treat someone bad when I can be wrong on them.

Also, I'm against treating scum reads badly, although it's hard to be polite on those cases most of the time since the discussion gets heated.

[Nibbui]

I see

when you talk so confidently like that I almost want to sheep you.

I'll stand by my reasons though. Nico doesn't seem like will be doing anything this game around unhappily.

[Nibbui]

Whatever tbh Radiant

But hyphotetically assuming that you're town here RC, If we lynch Varsoon and he flips town, you're probably the next and there's nothing that can be done if we follow that route.

At this point I just want the day to be done though.

VOTE: unvote

good luck on the minigame whoever has the will to do it.

[Nibbui]

Mmmmh, what a toxic enviroment this has turned on honestly...anyway, this is what I have to say:

- Radiant, it's ok to say that your reads are good and better than most of the players here usually, but saying that your "100%" is really a "100%" is just a lie. You said you were never "as confident as I have been on a scum read" on me in a certain game that I'll specify if you want me to, and yeah, I was town that game. Maybe you can blame me for being bad on being towny, but it still shows you can be wrong as well.

Anyway, I'm sorry if wrong Varsoon but that role really sounds like a lie on first glance, but what do you think about both you and Radiant leaving each other throat until day 2 or day 3? After that I'm not taking that IC claim on consideration at all to be honest, and if you aren't confirmed until d3, the fact that you claimed such a role might make you have more scum equity than RC. I understand that Radiant can be frustating if you're perhaps town regardless of RC's alignment, but yeah can we do it? It sounds absurdly scummy not being confirmed but saying "yeah let's lynch RC because he's wrong and only I would perhaps know it for sure".

You're right now...giving ammunition to Radiant's case that you're scum....

Anyway, Radiant, right now I like you more than Varsoon (that is not to say I agree with how you're playing this game, I don't) but I want to know if someone can be a testimony to what happens on your "hoods". NSG has been a bit scummy here so far but in your last post about her, although there was valid points there was some made-up things imo. I don't want to know the specifics about it, and if there's a hood you can't reveal for some reason it's ok to not say, but I want to know:

- If someone beside you and X person can be a testimony to what you say that happens on the hood
- if right now you don't have a testimony, if you can add one later
- who you're comfortable saying that are on those hoods with you

Depending on how you answer this I can ease a bit my suspicious about you tbh. I'm finding something odd on those "hoods" but maybe it's just me being dumb.

[Nibbui]

yes there is a third player in the NSG hood

do you think it's anti-town to say who and clear a little who would be on those hoods?

I'm very interested on the "cutesy" thing that NSG did on the hood because I think it would be really alignment indicative, however honestly I don't trust you to talk about it Radiant. Independent of your alignment, you always try to create the most scummy narrative possible for your scum read get lynched, and that's not what I'm aiming for here.

what do you think about both you and Radiant leaving each other throat until day 2 or day 3?

stop encouraging this. so many fucking people have acknowledged that the claim is bullshit and he's not playing like a person with that claim would make.

BUT YOU CONTINUE TO TRY TO FIND EXCUSES TO NOT FUCKING LYNCH IT

it's bullshitty however not entirely bs. I don't see that much harm on waiting for d2 or d3 but whatever you say I guess...

Also, I think I saw you misreading a player called Gamr or something similar to it on the own RC account. I mean Radiant, calm down, you've been wrong sometimes. To make justice for you though, I just skimmed over a game where you did catch 2/3 of the scum team, and only did misread NSG because she saved you from the lynch.

Honestly? If you did save your "I'm 100% sure you're scum" for the times where you're actually that confident on a read, maybe I could compromisse today since I do find Varsoon claim scummy just as I value your reads. However, you sound absurdly confident or try to project confidence on some reads every game. That hurts a bit our trust when you say you're "100%".

[Nibbui]

I've provided more than enough reasons for why RC is the best lynch for D1.

I won't be shifting to anyone else for a lynch.

:sigh:

honestly Varsoon, you've become as insistent on this as Radiant. I don't like it tbh...

I'm just done with you guys, if you want to lynch between Radiant vs Varsoon do your thing I guess.

Between them I'm probably voting Varsoon, his last post "I just want to lynch Radiant and if I'm not confirmed by d2 lynch me" sounds really like scum desperate to dragging down anyone he cans. I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I even did say for you to stop doing that before because it sounds scummy.

[Nibbui]

I mean Varsoon, you could just ignore Radiant, wait until you're confirmed and when you get confirmed we would hipothetically lynch Radiant. You insisting to do anything else makes you as insistent/unhelpful as Radiant and added with your claim makes you pretty scummy...

:sigh:

this game isn't pleasant at all right now, maybe we should lynch between them hoping that the game become less toxic.

Also Radiant, can you go back and answer my questions about your hoods? I'm trying to read you here to get to trust more your Varsoon read, but you're not helping me.

[Nibbui]

Nibbui, have you actually read the entire game so far?
I want to lynch RC because, out of my scumreads, he's by far the scummiest.
Look at what he's made D1 into.

He can do that as town Varsoon...

Even more since you guys have a past conflict. I'm not saying that his read on you is personal though, just that he would be a bit more toxic towards you since you guys have that going on between you as well.

Also, you quite provocated him in the begin, I'm not saying that it's your fault though, it would be helpful if Radiant did fix his temperament a bit because it's too explosive, however you need to admit you helped things become how they are now a bit...

It would be a similar experience anyway though.

[Nibbui]

also: do you really think that a person who thinks they have a 'pretty good' chance of hitting IC by day 3 agrees to be lynched on D2? If it was probably between those 2 roles, it would be D3, right?
but if he's scum and his main goal is to just try to look town based on his willingness to die and there's no point he actually gets confirmed, bam makes a lot of sense.

No, I can see him saying "lynch RC now and me if not confirmed on D2" as town for two reasons:

- He has become just a tunneled/focused on lynching Radiant as Radiant is with lynching him
- He is frustated so he is a bit desperate, biased and tunneling therefore wants to get RC lynched any possible way

In my opinion it can't be helped I'm going to find it scummy though, the overall explanation for his behavior if town would be frustation, and when you give in to frustation although sometimes (and in this case specifically) it would be understadable, it wouldn't be fair to blame town for reading such behavior negatively.

[Nibbui]

@Nibbui: Radiant's been a pox on the game and has driven town engagement way, way down with how they've played. Every day that we let him survive is giving him a free pass to do this again and again, all while he gets to enjoy subterfuge in the PTs that he would've never outed on his own and the powerups he's gotten from the minigame. Letting RC live any further makes it that much more difficult for town to get engaged and solve the game.

Yeah I see your point but I'm not really going to lynch him because of that when he perhaps can do that as town as well therefore. It's somewhat alignment indicative but not as much as we would all like.

If you didn't reply as strongly as you're doing right now, things maybe would look better because everyone would tone down him a bit.

I do admit that I have been complicit in walling up against RC. What's frustrating is that when I tried doing anything that wasn't 1v1'ing him, he wouldn't shut up about it and kept trying to mudsling literally everything I did.

I feel you if you're town. I experienced him doing the same for me and I lost my composure at first although I regained it somewhat later.

You still should have calmed down a bit Varsoon, I mean, I'm not blaming you here if you're town and all, it's frustating and understadable. But still...sounded scummy you know? I'm sorry if I'm wrong, I won't think it's your fault on post-game, but you shouldn't think it's townies fault for reading it negatively either.

[Nibbui]

I'll have a good laugh if this by any chance was a TvT though.

Sorry Varsoon if I'm wrong.

Also, it's not like I'm voting you just because Radiant bullied the thread, between the 1v1, although Radiant sounded more toxic, you sounded a bit scummier, idk, maybe it was the frustation rising up but it happened.

and since you two don't want to move on from the fight, lynching between you might be the best take.

[Nibbui]

About people saying that if Varsoon flips town Radiant can escape day 2 or that we're just following whatever Radiant says, at least from my part it's wrong.

I clearly suggested twice to Varsoon drop the fight, and we would wait until day 3 to sort "Radiant vs Varsoon" with the IC claim. He didn't want to and insisted on lynching Radiant right now, just as Radiant kept yelling in the thread.

I mean, I understand that if someone is town here they are frustated and not behaving like that is hard, but when things get to that point we need to take a side.

I liked Varsoon before the 1v1, but when he refused to let the conflict aside for now, and proposed instead for us to lynch RC today and if he's not confirmed by day 2, lynch him...

that was kinda scummy...

If he hadn't said that, I would even consider voting Radiant if he kept asking for Varsoon lynch nonetheless.

[Nibbui]

why do you feel guilty about scumreading varsoon when you clearly wouldn't feel guilty about scumreading me?

I don't feel guilty about scum reading Varsoon, I'll feel a bit bad though if I'm wrong on my scum read on him.

I would feel bad as well if I did misread you RC, but how bad I would feel is a different topic. It depends on how you're acting in the specific game as well.

There are times that I can have a somewhat nice chat with you and say "yeah, sorry if I'm wrong about you, really", but there are times that if I say that, your reply will be kinda like:

"yeah you better be sorry you dumbass, you should unvote me and actually vote for scum. ffs."

:pokerface:

Also, there are times you are so combative that I get kinda worked up and stop caring if it's my fault or not if I ever do misread you. It's hard to be sympathetic to someone you're upset with.

Anyway, there's a bonus point this time around as well. This 1v1 has become a bit personal and voting with you here makes it look like I'm fine with how this played out when or that I'm taking a side on a personal basis when I'm not. I don't want to remember this day even if Varsoon flips red, and definitely wouldn't want to if he ever flips green.

[Nibbui]

If it's been this hard to get him lynched playing like I have, can you imagine how much of a pointless slog trying to get him lynched being a Nice Guy (TM) would have been?

yeah I know that and that's why I'm not saying your ways are completely wrong

I just wish sometimes you would be a bit less explosive, but idk, sometimes it helps being explosive.

sometimes definitely not though.

and the hard part is that we don't know if it was helpful or harmful before a flip or post-game review.

[Nibbui]

@Nibbui: Wanna talk about it?
Because I'm flipping green here no matter how much RC spews filth and lies.
So if there's something I could to make it easier for you to read me,
turn me onto that.

I mean we can talk, but so far I doubt there's anything you can say to change my mind honestly.

Even if you actually agreed now to wait until day 3, it wouldn't be towny because you're very close to a lynch already...

But let's see, do you think I'm wrong about you on something I said?

and I'm talking about the things I said, and not what Radiant said, because although we said similar and even equal things sometimes, we have different views about some of your actions.

then focus about what I said about you while talking to me please, and not what RC said.

[Nibbui]

ok I've come to hammer it but...where is my L-1 wagon...

I dunno if I'll login tomorrow, so maybe it'll take a bit more now?

Well, maybe someone will hammer before me though.

@Varsoon but I did read your posts Varsoon, really, I'm not just doing whatever Radiant say, if you acted otherwise during the 1v1, not only I wouldn't vote you, I would help you ignore Radiant calling for your lynch today. However, you claim is already a bit weird, and added to that there is the fact that you seemed a bit more willing to simply get Radiant lynched today instead of focusing on getting to IC-status and therefore being able to lynch Radiant right there.

Sorry if I'm wrong, but yeah this has developed in a choice that is hard to change.

[Nibbui]

I mean, I could leave my vote here already maybe but...

you guys said he is in L-2 and the minigame is almost ending?

If he is scum though he will self hammer and there will be no winner (that can possibly be town), so I guess I won't do it after all.

[Nibbui]

I kinda like Chibi's posting. Not sure if it's much AI, but that type of post in the middle of this mess of AtE is quite nice.

Also

VOTE: Varsoon

If it flips town we lynch RC next day and so we can finally start to play nicely maybe in day 2 or day 3, depending on the flips.

I don't even care anymore tbh, this game in the current state gives me headaches.

In fact the only times I failed to get a Lynch through on a scumread

Thor in you got mail
Wisdom in DND upick

Nibbul in 1 vig mafia townies game

They were scum and scum were hard pushing counterwagons

Oh look someone is talking about me

I remember that game, it was fun. I played horribly though, only survived on the first day because vizzy was a bit clumsy (and yes I was pushing him).

[Nibbui]

No, no, no.

For god's sake.

We're not repeating day 1 in other days. Hell no. No one is even playing the the game anymore just for today, if this keeps until day 3 idk how we are playing.

Varsoon is all about saying:

Is it really too much to ask to make it to D2 or D3?

When we actually offered for him to back off from the 1v1 with Radiant and wait until day 3 to get confirmed. He refused and insisted on lynching RC today even though we could lynch Radiant if he ever did get IC-status.

Varsoon, Radiant has already backed off you, since I'm still here, do you get now that people on your wagon have actually reasons and are not only "foolishly" sheeping RC?

You say that Radiant is "lying" but it's more accurate to say that he is using the "straw man fallacy" (that in a certain way is lying), however, you are as well using the straw man fallacy. Look:

We've repeated to you a lot that we were lynching you today because we wanted a solution to "Varsoon vs Cowbells" and you refused to back off from the fight until IC-confirmed therefore making the game unplayable.

What you did ask for though was more or less to not only wait until day 3, but to actually take your side and lynch RC today as well. You asked for too much.

I'm not taking anyone side as well, but you can't say that this game state is only RC's fault. You began the game clearly in a provocative manner to him, knowing full well how his temperament is, I'm not saying though that it was wrong or whatever to do that, if you want to be provocative go ahead, however, when Radiant actually got into the fight, you couldn't handle your OWN temperament just as he couldn't handle his (or more actually, didn't want to handle), and now is kinda trying to look like some kind of victim.

Varsoon, really, I read in a certain post that you would feel bad if you got lynched on day 1 here, but don't take it personally. I've nothing against you and I'm not approving some of RC's behavior. If we all were having a nice chat and only Radiant was yelling and throwing a fit I would even policy lynch him maybe, however, you had a part on this fight as well. You gotta acknowledge it and at least stop the victim roleplay.

Supposing you're

town

, If you

really

, but

really

, would feel bad for being lynched today in real-life because your pride would kinda get hurt since you hate Cowbells's gut and playstyle, I can make a concession that honestly will be not game-related and unvote you.

However, if you're actually scum here and your ego just don't want to accept being lynched and caught by RC in day 1, I think it would be very, but VERY shameful to act like this. You would be basically what you say to despise; "someone that kills the fun of the game for everyone just for their own reasons".

Also, Nico Robin's meta obviously isn't working here

right now

, it's not only NR that isn't playing the game, it's half the playerlist. If we're voting NR let's be honest and confess that it's just a acceptable lynch (and before someone asks, I was yes voting for NR before, but it was different and I don't want to explain why yet).

[Nibbui]

Meh

VOTE: NicoRobin

If Varsoon flips scum here I swear, I'm adopting Radiant's policy of "fuck off, I don't care". I'm seeing too much scum using AtE around the site, and when they are town, use AtE and no one believes they, they get offended.

I'm not saying this particularly to you Varsoon, I don't even know how you play at all, neither I am saying this to anyone in specific.

Still, what the hell...

If you want people to understand when you're actually emotionally offended for real, don't EVER use AtE as scum.

If you do use AtE as scum, and expect people to back off from you when you use AtE as town, you're being unreasonable. Not everyone is going to know you enough to carefully distinguish what "barriers" you wouldn't cross as either alignment or whatever.

[Nibbui]

I can actually go for Gamma as well.

RC, why Gamma is town?

[Nibbui]

Varsoon, I honestly don't know what to say to you. You still think we were all manipulated into voting you without reasons.

If Radiant is scum here, what he did was to be provocative to you and made you take decisions that didn't look town at all. There is nothing created out of thin air here. Although he is constantly "lying" and using straw man fallacy, for him to be able to use the straw man, he at least needs some reasons. What he is doing is trying to make you scummier than you actually is.

But anyway ok, I get your point. I'll go somewhere else today out of respect for you as a person.

Also, I don't believe as well that you getting to IC makes RC scum, but you see, you wanted to lynch Radiant and Radiant wanted to lynch you, if we all believed that we could at least play the game without so much yelling...

But ok, I understand your point and I hope you somewhat understand mine. Let's go back to playing.

[Nibbui]

Oh right Chibi had asked about my scum reads

since we'll not be flipping Varsoon I can only say of my scum reads on this moment

I suppose I don't like Gamma, Nico and Varsoon currently. Also I have mixed feelings about NSG.

[Nibbui]

Varsoon scumread on Radiant is either tunnel or unnatural at this point. He's not reconsidering it a bit but back there was talking to Radiant as he was town.

I keep not liking Varsoon. Gamma 180º and maybe FB's failed hammer were bad as well.

Nico is an acceptable lynch.

VOTE: Gamma

[Nibbui]

Fire or RC, if it's not anti-town, what are the restrictions to FB's triple vote?

Depending on how it is, maybe his scum equity lowers or increases because I can't see a scum with triple vote that can use it everyday. Even if he can't use it at LyLo, with no other restriction it's too weird.

[Nibbui]

I want to wait a bit before the lynch though. I'm interest in FB as well.

[Nibbui]

Varsoon scumread on Radiant is either tunnel or unnatural at this point. He's not reconsidering it a bit but back there was talking to Radiant as he was town.

I keep not liking Varsoon. Gamma 180º and maybe FB's failed hammer were bad as well.

Nico is an acceptable lynch.

VOTE: Gamma

so gammas 180 was worse than my hammer?
not seeing why ur voting here now unless thats the case

Gamma's ISO and actions today are worse than yours as a whole. That's why I'm voting for him right now.

I"m not sure if I dislike more the hammer or the 180º in the reads.

[Nibbui]

Your hammer is very situational, and depends a lot on Gamma's flip.

I might like Gamma sketchy reads less I suppose, but that may be because I don't know much about your playstyle FB, or because I naturally lack info about the slots.

Yeah, for now it's Gamma.

[Nibbui]

Varsoon scumread on Radiant is either tunnel or unnatural at this point. He's not reconsidering it a bit but back there was talking to Radiant as he was town.

I keep not liking Varsoon. Gamma 180º and maybe FB's failed hammer were bad as well.

Nico is an acceptable lynch.

VOTE: Gamma

Ew these stances look contradictory
You think Fire tried to hammer his buddy like that?
Also the amount of “I’m willing to lynch this” is quite high here and I recall busting someone in another game by that.

Like...Gamma, this is one of the reasons I'm scum reading you here.

You're full of terrible interpretations, defensive and overly enthusiastic about throwing shade.

In what moment did I say in this post (or even in any other) that you and Fire are partners and that he tried to hammer his "buddy"?

You're not even trying to comprehend what I meant, you're just going around making noise tbh.

and yeah if anyone is wondering, I got tired of the polite tone/approach.

[Nibbui]

In what moment did I say in this post (or even in any other) that you and Fire are partners and that he tried to hammer his "buddy"?

I realized that was wrong later yeah
How am I "overly enthusiastic about throwing shade"?

Are you serious asking me this?

In that post you did not only say that my stance was contradictory without taking the time to comprehend what I meant, but you did say as well that you had "busted" once someone because they actually had multiple scum reads/ scum leans.

My progression in all of those reads were very organic and even a bit overexplained, but you say that the fact I have multiple scum leans is a choice I made and not because of the fact that there's quite a lot of slots looking scummy.

If you don't want to be in the Nibbui's "willing to lynch" list, get townier.

Also, ranting a bit here, me actually willing to go for various slots is town-indicative because I'm always do that as town, and as scum focus on 2 or 1 people. That's not to say I'm necessarily town, but that's entirely NAI at best for me.

Let's note there's nothing addressing my point of pointing too many fingers which is honestly the most important part of the post

Consider the point adressed in this post.

[Nibbui]

okay that's a playstyle thing then and I apologize.

It's ok.

I may have been a bit overly agressive in the last posts as well, I'm getting a bit too fond of it.

Did a quick review on your ISO now and have to ask:

Who is or has potential to be scum for you here Gamma? You retracted a lot on your recent scum leans and seems to be leaning town or at least null on the currently popular wagons.

[Nibbui]

this game right now is shit.

I don't dislike it that much though.

(jjh, your minigames are nice though, do a minigame about sweets, maybe I can at least try to win that one).

[Nibbui]

If you guys change wagons again I'm not voting Varsoon until day 3.

VOTE: Varsoon

Just hurry up if you're going to vote, this back and forth between Varsoon and Radiant makes me don't wanna do stuff in the game.

By the way Varsoon, the way you handled Radiant at recent pages was kinda cool. Not perfect, but good enough I guess. If you had that composure since the begin, and didn't say some questionable things (you posted 2 theories that ignored information that is in the thread or that you seemed to be aware before) you maybe could have won this 1v1 regardless of alignment.

You would be able to make the constantly exagerrated and kinda dishonest Radiant's rethoric look way worse than it looks right now.

I'm not even that much confident you're scum anymore, but it's hard to see you as town to be honest. Are you perhaps a lyncher for real...?

[Nibbui]

Also we should decide who we are lynching on night if Varsoon flips scum

If he flips town we're probably following "the plan" I guess? Not that there's much logic behind it but whatever.

[Nibbui]

Also Nk15 is probably town imo.

[Nibbui]

Actually fuck it, what if Varsoon really is IC?

Holy crap, we would be lynching a IC. That's beyond anti-town, it's a new entirelly new dimension.

But what can I say to Varsoon though if he is town? Did he really had to go back to the 1v1 that we had moved from?

If he got NK, Radiant gets lynched. If he confirms himself, Radiant presumably would have high chances of getting lynched.

Why. the. hell. go. back. to. the. 1v1. and. risk. being. lynched. on day 1.

As town there are times it's simply fo the best to not say what you really think. I usually guard to myself some scum reads or town reads sometimes because there are others slots to look at and it's not useful to be conter-productive and look scummy.

That's another point that makes me doubt he is town though.

[Nibbui]

I want to unvote so badly, but Varsoon really messed this up if he is town.

I personally think that if you're town, your priority is usually to look town. Only in second comes finding scum because if town is able to be towny, scum has nowhere to hide. (not to say how most of us are usually incorrect as well in our scum reads).

Even if RC is scum here, the right town play here would be to wait realistically speaking. You hardly would get a lynch on him today in this situation, although if you got confirmed you could lynch him.

[Nibbui]

I'm not putting up with this 1v1 until day 3 and no one appears to be willing to do so as well. It's annoying.

Then I want to resolve now even if it's mechanically stupid.

[Nibbui]

wait what, I just read #2140 from NK15 and I retract my town lean.

[Nibbui]

nibbui i doubt you would have shown me a quarter as much consideration as you've shown varsoon if our places were reversed

c'mon man

as long as you're not offending people personally I can take your side yes

It's just that you get too worked up and I mean it regardless of your alignment. Idk, it's your playstyle though and you have won games like this. Not saying to change or anything.

The "I'm sorry If I'm wrong" from before was me overdoing it because of

my

irl circumstances yes, but I'm past over that and just feel the same consideration for him as I would feel for you as long as you weren't doing, you know, that.

I was being even a bit fake before but I really mean it now Radiant, I don't dislike you, but I'm afraid to say I don't really like to play with you when you get worked up and that is probably as most of people feel as well. I'm not saying for you to change, again. But you can't expect consideration when a lot of times you don't show that much consideration for others.

It was pleasant to play with you on that vig game though, you were more relaxed I guess (a lot of your friends were playing there as well so it was a different game state I guess).

[Nibbui]

i played this the way I had to with varsoon doing what he was doing. i'm like I am out of necessity.

I'm not sure if it was a necessity, but I get where you are coming from. That's a way to deal with the situation.

Well, let's just move on from that though.

VOTE: Radiant

Nothing personal but I'm not moving my vote from here, in fact, I can even perhaps yell for this lynch.

If there's even a 1% chance that Radiant is scum here, I'm lynching him today. I don't want to perhaps see this kind of play defended on post-game because it's a "winnable strategy".

[Nibbui]

He wasn't necessarily fakeclaiming, /in to mod had some probability of actually getting him confirmed. He did fakeclaim it being a certainty though.

and it isn't stupid, I'm just mulling over if it's worth to go through the trouble for this game.

[Nibbui]

I'm not moving my vote from you but whatever to be honest.

Even if you're scum, and to be honest I think you actually might be scum with that flip for a entirely different reason, at least It won't be my problem. If I decided the lynch, you would be the lynch today and that's good enough. I won't stress myself over convincing everyone to think like me here, this game has had enough toxicity already anyway.

I'll later explain why I think you might be scum here though.

[Nibbui]

I expect an apology from you after this game if you're town, Nibbui.

Why.

[Nibbui]

You can say Varsoon did a lot of shit and that's right.

Saying you have 0 responsibility is bullshit though. You're shrugging it off too easy honestly Radiant.

Even before the IC claim you were already set on your ways, but you're just trying to put all the blame on him now.

There's no clear right or wrong here for me, just unhappy things that came from both parties, maybe from one more than the other, but still from both parties.

[Nibbui]

You're already using straw man. I already said that the claim had some probability of having a IC power there with the flavors. He still did bad by fakeclaiming that it was a certainty.

However that's not even the point Radiant.

You were already set on lynching him even before the goddamn claim and that's of course why he got to L-1 all worked up.

Also, it wasn't a policy lynch, it was probably biased, but the fact you use straw man constantly (and you're using it right now), is a decent justification for a scum read. He just looked way worse with the claim.

But like I said, things were already heated up even BEFORE the claim.

[Nibbui]

Honestly? This is my take on the story:

Varsoon was looking down on Radiant in the first pages, Radiant got pissed and went to 1v1 to lynch Varsoon and rub it on his face just like Varsoon was actually all kinda smug in the begin.

and I think this comes from scum you more often. Sorry if I'm wrong but your constantly personal attacks against Varsoon back there (and his to you) doesn't help me to change my mind at all, in fact it even somewhat support it.

Also, the fact you were talking you didn't care and would take the lynch today if Varsoon flipped town but now is like "voting for me is stupid" just looks even scummier.

You can say it's stupid but you were the one to bring it in the first place.

[Nibbui]

I said that there was a transition from not trying to obvtown to trying to obvtown

You have literally no idea what my scum game would or would not look like

I would suggest not making assumptions

It's not even about your scum game. It's about your personality.

If you're scum and someone is looking down on you in that game, even more someone you have a past grudge, you're probably going to try to lynch his ass.

But yeah, I won't get worked up about it. Maybe you're not scum, but in my opinion my point about your mindset still stands.

I say again, this isnt productive. We've got two days to figure out another lynch.

I'm looking NK15/Nico. I feel this opportunity we have here needs to be used like a vig shot, and take out a lurky nullscum

Hmmm...

Day 1 as a whole wasn't productive I guess.

I dunno about NK15 though, there's better lynches I would say, his will to get to review Varsoon's ISO looked a bit townie for me.

[Nibbui]

Well, to be honest I don't even remember his posts, but if he did that it's kinda scummy yes.

2140 sounded a bit opportunistic for me but I did more or less shrug it off since he seemed townie while mentioning Varsoon's ISO.

If he did posture himself before though his vote is not worth much huh

I would appreciate if someone made a case on his ISO, I'm too lazy right now.

[Nibbui]

ChibiBear, I like you. If you're scum I kinda want to lynch you for last.

[Nibbui]

i like u nibbui, i am gonna lynch you first :devil:

and here I was thinking I would win as scum for once...guess not...

[Nibbui]

ohh if ur scum i am going to let u live

Thanks.

Also, screw it, we only have 48 hours so I might as well compromisse.

I don't think this is flipping scum though.

VOTE: NK15

I can do Nico as well.

I would even - rather - lynch Nico but we're lacking on time so for now I'm voting NK15 where there's already a wagon.

[Nibbui]

I think the way I've been singled out after the fact says enough about why I played this the way I did because if I didn't I'd always have lost any 1v1 with anyone off the back of "well x is towny and RC is too but who really knows that he is scum though?"

Your treatment of my slot backs me into a corner then you blame me for playing myself out of it

I know it is probably to Chibi but I think you have the same opinion about me so I'm going to reply this.

I'm not blaming you in that way Radiant, I'm not saying "it's all your fault". I'm just saying that I don't like how you are saying "I was only the victim" and shrugging it off as just that. I understand where you are coming from though.

Also, you said in one post that we're supposedly not treating your slot like a real player but honestly I am, you entered the game already going for Varsoon's throat and although later you had plenty of justifications to lynch him, I still don't understand your early strong scum read on him that much, it sounds a bit as if you just wanted to lynch him for his provocations and that's something I would expect from scum!RC a bit more than town!RC, and this is looking at your personality and not in meta or anything.

However, I don't plan to keep yelling to lynch you neither I'm going to lock you as scum just for that. Let's just play the game and I'm not going to ignore or anything just because I'm scum leaning you, maybe I'm wrong and you can show me that.

C'mon RC, let's play the game and not just lurk in the hood. As either alignment.

[Nibbui]

Hard Leantown nibbui

Did I perhaps drop from town to town lean because I'm scum leaning you or there is other reasons?

Not that I don't understand how it's hard to find towny someone accusing you if you're perhaps town, but I'm curious.

[Nibbui]

TL;DR:
It is a very good indicator of scum if someone uses "to be honest" or similar often because town does have little need for dishonesty in the first place, and Nibbui has used it 13 times until now.
Nibbui used apologeticism multiple times to distance them from a lynch.
Nibbui made it clear that they are self-aware of their meta.
Their progression on mutant reads fake.
Their explanation of their vote on me is highly scummy.
Their backing down from NSG early looked like "oops I am pressuring a scumbuddy let's not do it"; why would town suddenly put all the pressure off there?
VOTE: Nibbui

1. I always use "to be honest" as either alignment and even out of mafia games, it's just a word I use frequently and I can prove it.
2. I'm not distancing myself from a lynch, sometimes I simply apologize for scum reading someone if I'm perhaps wrong (and I was). I'm probably not going to do that as much though, I'm tired of apologies.
3. Someone was accusing me of something and I just pointed it was NAI, didn't try to convince anyone to town read me based off that, although it's indeed town-indicative if you look on it at a superficial way.
4. Mutant did a similar setup talk in Open 720, I did butthead him there, and he was scum. I don't think it's weird or fake how I'm suspicious of him when he says something that sounds as trying to push forward his intentions.
5. It's not scummy. You lurk all day 1, come with a lot of bullshit posts and expect anyone to refuse lynching you when we only have 48 hours and you were the unique wagon with more than one vote?
6. I'm vaguely aware that NSG is busy with irl and very pissed at people scum reading her only because of activity so I'm trying to let her do her own thing for now. I'll eventually need to take a definitive stance on the slot though.

NK15, I was going for the sarcastic route in this post but I gave up and actually engaged you as bad/poor as this case sounds.

I have been posting it's been forever and only now, that I vote you, you think these actions are suspicious?

Can you get scummier than that? You're not helping me change my mind about lynching you, in fact this post just makes like the idea more.

[Nibbui]

Actually, on second thought, NK15 isn't as objectively bad as I first thought.

For someone that doesn't know me it's somewhat understandable.

It's not understandable or good though that he only comes to push me/suspect me when I vote him.

[Nibbui]

I don't really feel like Nibbui as scum goes after me. I think he would recognize how personally upset this game has made me and avoid it.

Yeah I wouldn't be too friendly but I wouldn't antagonize you, and if you're town this is what I expect most of the scum to do.

Some may antagonize you to justify not voting/paying attention elsewhere though.

I think scum are probably going to avoid pushing me here (or would if I hadn't said this)

I'm surprised on the lack of a backslash to you after Varsoon lynch to be honest. People seem to be kinda avoiding saying anything to you.

[Nibbui]

It's not understandable or good though that he only comes to push me/suspect me when I vote him.

this is not and has never been a scumtell

I can understand him getting maybe suddenly suspicious/aware of me when I voted him.

However, right now I'm more inclined to think that he simply wanted to backslash and him voting for Nico here would sound a bit bad, so he choose me.

I have way too many posts for him to have ignored me until now.

[Nibbui]

You are the most popular wagon, next is nico's. The most basic thought to avoid getting lynched would be to vote for Nico and that wouldn't look so good.

[Nibbui]

I can't find the post where you said who you also where - can you quickly give me the info please?

Just look at any completed town game in my Yuurei or Fumuki account. Specially Yuurei that is the most recent one and I got the habit of always saying "to be honest" more recently. It's NAI. There's actually a word that as scum I just can't not repeat sometimes but of course I'm not telling you.

It's just a fact that scum pre-apologize more than town.

and it's a fact that I do it as either alignment so what is your point?

If you are aware of your own meta then that part of your own meta you know isn't AI anymore.

It's not so simple to change your playstyle sometimes but anyway, I didn't insist that it's AI, that's up to if you want to believe/verify it. I'm insisting that it's NAI and that's a fact.

Yes, at least if the voting period is 48 hours. You should normally at least try to get a lynch in on the most suspected candidate of yours; especially early in the period. If you don't you just empower the people who voted first; although this is probably not as scummy - it could probably also point to lazy town.

Yeah and there's not much support to lynch Radiant and I don't want another 1v1, so I'm compromissing. Also I'm clearly lazy.

this doesn't hold explanation though. The part with NSG was very early when it was not forseeable that NSG would be not very active.

What do you mean? I engaged with NSG early yes, but she stopped posting and if I don't want to read her off only based on activity how can I not drop off for now my read on her? Also, now that I think about it, how I'm "bussing" her when I was actually town leaning her? In no moment in early game I found a problem with her posts, I simply wasn't sure if she was town.

[Nibbui]

If Firebringer used their 3x voting on me(probably not possible because it is probably a day ability) then I am already lynched. Otherwise I am at L-2.
Nibbui, when you changed your vote the wagon you were on(Radiant) had more than one vote, btw.

Yeah, it had 2 and we need what? 6 or 7?

Obviously not the lynch if I'm not willing to at least try a more intense 1v1 right now and I sure don't.

[Nibbui]

That you should stop doing it?

I have already stopped because I'm not in the mood for apologies but why I wouldn't be polite of saying "sorry if I'm wrong on you" when I try to lynch someone that not only can be town but are usually very frustated on being lynched?

Because it sounds scummy? I already said it's NAI and my completed games can prove it if you do the effort of skimming over one.

I never said bussing. It just looked to me that you removed pressure from somebody without having gotten a reaction when town should usually strive to apply pressure.

I'm not applying pressure on NSG or anyone to be active if she's/they are busy. I hope that they understand later though if I happen to just wanna lynch them later if I find their ISO lacking and there's no special posts that change my mind.

and I'm not saying "NSG, please post" because I think she already knows that, she's just occupied. She can be scum though, who knows.

Also about me saying the word, I would I do that? It's not going to help this game at all because it's simply self-meta, I can talk about self-meta all day here and why I'm town, but self-meta in a game is not that useful if not for the sake of pointing out NAI things and sometimes some exceptions.

The unique thing it would do is to weaken my scum game, and to be honest, I think my playstyle changed a lot and as scum now I would use a different tactic/rethoric and that word would stop being a somewhat very shaken scumtell.

[Nibbui]

my ability redirects anything that targets NSG towards me or removes the ability if i'm no longer alive. you can confirm it by using a targeted action on her.

that's...cute.

Not sure what to think of you claiming it right now or the role itself though, maybe towny tbh? dunno.

[Nibbui]

Meh, we can look at NK15 later in day 2, at least we can engage him.

I know Nico is busy but I don't expect her to do engage in this game even if she wasn't busy at all, it's practically her meta most of the time and she has the miller claim going on as well.

VOTE: Nico

[Nibbui]

ok maybe mutant is town with this last post.

[Nibbui]

Welcome to the Nico lynch we're happy to have you.

Thanks. Everyday is always a good day to lynch lurker slots with a miller claim.

Nothing personal though Nico, I respect your playstyle and understand you're busy, but in this situation it just seems a good choice to lynch you.

[Nibbui]

I don't think FB/Radiant can be scum together to be honest.

Both for interactions as well for mechanics. I can be wrong but I'm quite confident on that.

[Nibbui]

My progression in all of those reads were very organic and even a bit overexplained, but you say that the fact I have multiple scum leans is a choice I made and not because of the fact that there's quite a lot of slots looking scummy.

If you don't want to be in the Nibbui's "willing to lynch" list, get townier.

Also, ranting a bit here, me actually willing to go for various slots is town-indicative because I'm always do that as town, and as scum focus on 2 or 1 people. That's not to say I'm necessarily town, but that's entirely NAI at best for me.

Very self-aware of own meta as town so this makes it NAI, indeed... EXCEPT

That's not to say I'm necessarily town,

<---- HOW DOES THAT COME FROM TOWN???

I did re:read NK15's case to mull over his thought process and...what's this...

No way, you can't have been serious when you said this. You first trash me because self-meta has no value for you and afterwards say that I should insist on being town read by self-meta?

wtf, you're just trying to bake a case/reason for me to be scum at this point, and a very half-assed as well.

I can hammer this slot yes.

[Nibbui]

Explain to me how that thought process comes from town more often than scum mutant.

Also, I'm not going to quote but he commented "what townie say this?" to my post saying to Chibi that I was pocketed. That would be fine and all if only in the next post I didn't explain the reaction test.

These two points are very cooked up and seems like he is only throwing things at the wall trying to make something stick.

[Nibbui]

These two points are very cooked up and seems like he is only throwing things at the wall trying to make something stick.

i said this about varsoon 24 hours ago

yes but you and Varsoon had a troubled past

There's no reason for him to act like this to me. It feels very not genuine because we can't even explain it by saying it's personal bias.

We can say that he was in a somewhat tunnel vision but that's it I guess. Very complicated read.

[Nibbui]

Hmm...

I wonder who got night killed.

I wouldn't dislike at all if I do get shot...

[Nibbui]

between kokichi and NK15 I'm rather lynching NK.

Mutant "but he says similar things as town as well"

and that doesn't make him townie for me, just a bit less scummy.

However, Kokichi willing to publicly say that he can unlock players second role, and not only that, that afterwards he could unlock two people at once and we did get to choose who, makes him a bit townier than NK right now. He would basically be empowering town and I'm not sure he would say that just for the WIFOM.

Maybe. But for now I want someone else.

Also, I don't like how mutant isn't one bit suspicious of NK15. Even if he say things like that as town, won't he do the similar as scum?

VOTE: NK15

[Nibbui]

man, i really wish at least one of those night wagons had gone through

maybe it's my fault for not hammering Kokichi, but I wasn't here on that moment

NK15 could have been hammered though and no one seemed interested on doing it

[Nibbui]

Chibi sounds good but I have not that much confidence there, but there are other slots to be looked at right now.

Also, Idk what to do with kokichi, but now I noticed how he sort of lacks engagement on reading people in this game.

[Nibbui]

I'm wondering, but in this game where there seems to be a lot of night actions, wouldn't be pro-town for any redirectors to claim?

I think redirectors can really mess up things here.

[Nibbui]

Mutant, I dislike you white knighting NK15 to a extreme ammount so I'm gonna engage you.

Why do you think that NK15 belongs in the town section and why would I be inside the lynchpool instead of him?

[Nibbui]

Also if you say "oh but I don't town read NK15 I just think he's not scum" I'm going to scum lean you.

You have been taking his side it's been ages.

[Nibbui]

My conclusion is that Nibbui prolly isn’t scum
Also thinking Kokichi’s defending the NK is a bit scum indicative as I generally do that as scum

that's actually an interesting point on nibbui and one that i agree with. nice one! i didn't get it for a second at first, so for anyone else who doesn't – scum very rarely kill the same people that they're pushing for a lynch unless some kind of unforeseen circumstances arose when discussing who to nightkill.

I'm scum though, I just love WIFOM.

Anyway, If both you and mutant are saying that NK15 doesn't play like this as town, I'll buy it for now, either because if you're town you are likely right and because if you're scum I don't know if you would say this about your buddy. Maybe but not likely for me.

[Nibbui]

I think that Elbirn is town.

[Nibbui]

@Gamma was NSG actively engaging Radiant on the hood?

[Nibbui]

spicy, but Radiant said as well that people wouldn't be able to target NSG.

I can be wrong here but since you can't be night killed, it woudn't be anti-town to reveal a bit more of that role right?

It's a bit weird for a town role to be honest, but I only have a very low-resolution idea of it.

[Nibbui]

But for example, he said that you couldn't be investigated for the rest of the game independent of him being alive or not NSG?

Is that due to Radiant or a third party as well? Or is that part of your own role?

[Nibbui]

Hmmm, I feel there's bussing going on here right now but I don't know who are the scum.

[Nibbui]

spicy, but Radiant said as well that people wouldn't be able to target NSG.

I can be wrong here but since you can't be night killed, it woudn't be anti-town to reveal a bit more of that role right?

It's a bit weird for a town role to be honest, but I only have a very low-resolution idea of it.

Why do you find hers weird but not mine.

because hers seemed to be a primary role, and added to the fact of being unkillable, RC said not even investigative roles could target her.

As a whole her role is pretty different from yours, and you seemed to need a PT to activate it as well.

[Nibbui]

It's not necessarily my scum leans, but I think there's at least one, and maybe two, scum in : [MariaR, Kokichi, NSG, Chibi].

I'm confident about there being at least one. two I'm not confident.

Also, I kinda like NSG's and Chibi's posts yes, but analyzing the game as a whole I have come to this.

It doesn't mean I'm fine lynching either of the two today though. Kokichi and Maria maybe are better options.

[Nibbui]

MariaR, who is in your hood anyway?

It would help at solving the game.

[Nibbui]

You know, you suddenly claimed you need to get in a PT, and afterwards said that you had become deathproof.

?

How did you become deathproof if not by getting in a PT? You said "I became deathproof" if I remember right therefore it can't be your primary role.

[Nibbui]

forget it

I thought it was "I became deathproof" when you actually said "I become deathproof" that actually means "I will become deathproof once I get in a PT".

Quite interesting you didn't get in a PT though.

[Nibbui]

nibbui, it's interesting to me that you seem to be scumreading me now more than you ever were before today, when in my mind i would imagine that someone would have the exact opposite reaction

I kinda already explained and I know it doesn't make much sense but although I do like your new posts and even town lean them, it's not confident enough for me to ignore that it's hard to imagine a lot of scum teams that doesn't include you if not when:

- Scum already being pinned down what is unlikely (Kokichi, Maria)
- I being wrong on my town reads that I actually feel good about and players in a general sense here feel good about as well

Where I am:

I did read some games from Gamma and Fire these days and I'm actually on them being town

You said Nico is town and from the confidence of it I guess there is something else that makes sure she is town

NK15 both you and mutant said it's probably town

Elbirn I think it's town, principally by some interactions that I have with him out of the main thread. I would rate his scum game as pretty good if he flips scum here.

Mutant everyone is agreeing on town. Chibi almost the same thing.

and...that's how I get to my current guess? I'm not even sure there were other people to put on it.

However I need to admit that I'm playing a team game here and trusting a lot other people read on some players, if I actually just drop it off and go by myself, things would change.

Should I stop being cooperative and do my own thing? I can definitely substitute you with some consensus "town reads" because I like your recent posts.

[Nibbui]

I mean, Kokichi and Maria?

This is just too obvious and it doesn't quite glue together for me to be honest. Maybe one of them but the two...?

They don't feel like scum together. At least not together.

But who knows, I don't see where to go today if not there...

No, I actually see where to go but it wouldn't be pretty right now because no one would support it I guess.

[Nibbui]

Maria I can reply you but I kinda want let NSG reply it because she hasn't many posts yet and I want to see more of her thoughts.

After her I can give my reasons.

[Nibbui]

Yeah NSG, I kinda got that in Open 720 and that's why I'm not stepping up and saying

"It's a trap folks!" yet.

I'll be very surprised though if the two of them are scum, I mean, it was too smooth. Yeah, that's the right word.

It's not "obvious". It's "smooth". We've been narrowing our lynch pool on them for quite some time but no reaction whatsoever. If the two of them are scum it's almost like they let us win.

That's what I don't like about it. Maria hasn't been necessarily scummy, she hasn't been towny and the same somewhat in a less extent applies to Kokichi.

It's different for example than when I said Brian was "too obvious". They aren't obvious because they are doing scummy things, they became "obvious" lynchs because other slots aren't in much danger of a lynch and got out of the PoE.

[Nibbui]

oh, and i'm interested to hear why you think they're not aligned

Woah, that's a bit of a tricky question.

But I would say it's kind of a "feeling"?

I opened Maria's ISO to check if I wasn't just delusional and although I'm not, it's not as implausible as I first thought.

Still, the way that she talks with him is pretty smooth, and the fact that they got narrowed down so smoothly without steeping up makes me feel that they aren't together...

I'm shaken now though...

Could we really just have narrowed 2/3 of the scum so easily and they didn't fight at all?

(assuming there is 3 scum and not just 2 of course)

[Nibbui]

Ok you have a point NSG.

It's just that it was such weak pushes that I actually didn't register that much.

I didn't see you answer something though: Is your read on Nico coming from mod confirmed info? Or it's a personal read?

[Nibbui]

It's less what you did and more what you didn't.

You've been playing fine and all in my opinion but not to the point where we look at you and say "yeah, she's out of her supposedly scum range".

At least for me it's that way.

[Nibbui]

NSG, I'll clap for you if you're scum here you know?

I'm feeling the towniness coming from you. I'm not sure if I'm not just getting smoothly pocketed though.

[Nibbui]

Maria lfmao

who is scum then?

[Nibbui]

NSG, I'll clap for you if you're scum here you know?

I'm feeling the towniness coming from you. I'm not sure if I'm not just getting smoothly pocketed though.

haha, the day i manage to play a scumgame like this i'll let you know.

I think it's not out of your scum range if you actually put effort and get motivated. That's one of the reasons I'm always afraid to call you town too early.

It's hard to get motivated to play as scum though for some people, I'm most of the times the same and I get you.

[Nibbui]

We're not really blaming you guys for pushing them.

I was pushing them myself.

The deal is that from where I see your participation is mostly only pushing them, and I don't see many points for a town read on both of you while I actually find some points to justify my town reads, town leans or at least trust other people judgement on other slots.

Maria, why should we town read you here? What would you be doing differently as scum?

[Nibbui]

NSG, by the way, I may have amnesia but I don't remember you answering me about your read on Nico. Is it mod confirmed info? Or is it by play?

[Nibbui]

What kind of tells and why you're only bringing they up right now?

Also this is getting funny it's almost as NSG and me are interrogating MariaR

[Nibbui]

Maria I'm sorry but like, you can't really say that we would be doing any wrong by lynching you here?

I asked for you to appoint me some town points about you, and you said "well, I'm a hard player to read" so we basically have no reason to town read specifically.

I asked you who you think it's scum, and you couldn't give me anything but NK15 that is a very easy target.

I still asked you why, and only now you bring up those "tells" and when I say for you to explain you just say "well, it's a secret meta tell".

I mean...what are we supposed to do here really? We don't even know the reasons why we should be voting in NK15 with you?

[Nibbui]

You're actually not giving us an alternative PoE though

neither are willing to explain a supposedly meta tell on NK15 when I don't think you'll play with him that often

neither is actually giving us a good case on yourself being the least bit townie

I mean, I'm willing to listen but yeah, this hasn't made plenty of progress...

[Nibbui]

Are you guys actually going to make me go read NK15 games to clear this out?

isn't that what they call true evil...?

anyway, I would still be a bit surprised if Kokichi and Maria flip scum together even though my reads point to it. It'll have been such a weird game.

[Nibbui]

By the way NSG, two more questions to pile up with the Nico's one:

Who out of Maria and Kokichi you do think it's most likely to flip scum?

Also, can you explain a bit your town read on me?

[Nibbui]

Makes sense.

I feel like Maria is a bit lost and don't know what to do regardless of alignment. Not really what I expected from a possible scum!Maria but idk her play too much anyway.

[Nibbui]

I may put this game on low priority from now on to be honest. I think I have mostly got my solve so it's not that important anyway though.

VOTE: MariaR

[Nibbui]

The fact that I'm even a lynch choice should be clue enough I'm town but hey.

what a bad argument by maria.

maybe she is town

who would be scum then?

[Nibbui]

I don't think NSG needs to explain about Nico for now honestly.

If she is scum, I don't think she makes this play with a scum buddy.

If she is town, I don't think she would try to make us take her read on Nico so strongly if she hasn't a good reason.

It looks like for some reason it's better to leave this one unanswered for a while. Also Kokichi, the way you come to the thread looks bad.

You look like trying to find a way out of being in the PoE/lynch pool rather than actually getting a organic read on anyone.

[Nibbui]

Kokichi, did you really not understand my post?

It means Nico is very probably town if you actually try to understand what I meant

Also we already questioned her and no response, isn't better to leave it alone at least for now?

[Nibbui]

I think he meant something else Chibi.

[Nibbui]

Chibi what do you think you would be doing different here as scum?

[Nibbui]

It's valid, we didn't say it wasn't. But it's a very valid scum play as well.

I mean, if you aren't specifically scum reading anyone, I take you'll be up to lynch any of your null reads without a priority right?

Do you agree with me that this kind of play can be a way to scum stay float as well?

[Nibbui]

If Maria flips scum I think Chibi is town.

and if Chibi is town It's time to wear my WIFOM hat because there is just something very wrong in our PoE.

[Nibbui]

Chibi...

I checked some of your games right now and...

are you perhaps town for real...

no way...be scum please.

I want my easy PoE to be right and just lynch scum mindlessly.

[Nibbui]

Well anyway, about your play on Open 740 I don't think it was bad, really.

It's just that your playstyle is a bit different so you'll need to play some games to people get used to it and recognize that it's how you play.

It'll be helpful as well when you do roll scum because there'll probably have differences between your plays and it'll be easier to try to read between the lines.

[Nibbui]

Ok I typed too fast #2766 but let's pray no one notices or bugs me about it.

Hopefully.

[Nibbui]

I mean, it's even impressive you play that way as town.

I for example used to not be able to contain my suspicious even if they were small and screamed in the thread for lynches.

Most people somewhat tunnel scumreads as well. The fact you hold off seems to indicate you're pretty rational although not much confident on yourself.

About you and Maria association it's mostly because:

1. Maria was in a bad situation and suddenly naked voted you
2. This part of your readlist:

- Maria's frustration feels genuine-ish to me, plus I think I kinda like her posts from yesterday, but only enough to make her a very very slight town lean. She herself has said that she's hard to read. I still think she's wrong on NK15 though either way.

If you're scum I would say you're someone that tries to go along with the flow, I don't think it's likely you would say good things about MariaR here when there was so much shade on her, even more when she suddenly voted you.

I don't know if it means as much if Maria flips town though.

[Nibbui]

Maybe it's [Kokichi, MariaR, Mutant]. Really.

If I'm wrong on someone maybe the last scum is NK15?

Elbirn isn't impossible but I don't feel it right now.

[Nibbui]

Yup that's me, zero confidence and a focus on being rational.

I never really got the hang of tunnelling.

I'm basically you but with the extra of tunneling sometimes.

Nowadays I drop a lot my reads though, I reevaluate too much.

Also I'm becoming fond of tone reads but they're hard.

[Nibbui]

Hmmm.

NSG don't be scum.

thanks.

[Nibbui]

I mean, I'm in a PT with Elbirn right now and he has said some townie things.

Here in the thread my read on him would be nulltown just like yesterday, but after talking to him in the PT I feel better about him. I can try to paraphrase some of our chat there if you want.

My thoughts on firebringer are the same on Gamma. Mostly a meta feel.

Last night I read some of their games and I think they are town for now. Not sure because you can't ever be sure in mafia while uninformed about everything, but sure enough for now I guess.

[Nibbui]

NSG look at Kokichi/Mutant interactions.

am I being delusional here or there's some potential there?

[Nibbui]

I mean, I thought a lot about this but I don't think it's harmful to reveal it Elbirn.

It may help other people reads on you.

[Nibbui]

On a second thought I may be giving him too much town credit because his scum play maybe is simply good/smooth.

I would still look elsewhere first though for now. Need to check some of his games although I think they'll be quite old.

I'll talk with him what he feels confortable about me revealing here and afterwards I get back to you on this topic.

[Nibbui]

ok Elbirn's rage was a bit out of place there

about me showing Kokichi and Mutant interactions I'll try to quote here later.

Probably.

Maybe.

Hopefully.

Still doubtfully.

Not surely.

I'll try to do the effort. Not right now though.

[Nibbui]

hi. i'm reasonably confident that there are three scum out of the four of {elbirn, maria, kokichi, nk15}.

i invite any disagreement.

I disagree. I'd switch NK15 out for Nibbui.

Why

I think the answer to that is pretty obvious to be fair.

No it's not obvious so feel free to case me

[Nibbui]

Idk what to say

I'm constantly trying to reevaluate my reads to see if I'm wrong but Kokichi if town isn't helping me read him in a positive light at all

Also about the mutant thing I've decided to let it alone until Kokichi's flip.

I'll see what I can do to paraphrase my chat with Elbirn in the hood.

[Nibbui]

So basically the chat with Elbirn was more or less like this (feel free to point anything wrong Elbirn):

- We got confused why we were there in the first place and I'm not explaining more about that so don't ask

- We proceeded to share some info on roles (both me and him) and Elbirn showed a somewhat genuine reaction about mulling over if they should or not reveal any info

- He to me stop role fishing someone here in the thread and asked me about my apparent scum read on NSG that I had at that time

- We chatted a bit about the weird fact that there seems to be two deathproof roles

- We discussed a bit about how Chibi's readlist hadn't scum reads (we noticed both at the same time though)

- I talked to him how it was still a bit weird to me the idea of this being scum!Maria because I would expect her to be a bit more proactive although there is always WIFOM.

There is some other info but revealing it would be anti-town right now I guess.

In general I felt he was talking smoothly (except in a certain post but I can't reveal as of now) and naturally, what I ended up leaning town because we have a lot of slots here that seems to actively not be trying to seem town at all, it can just be that he is a skilled scum player though and knows how to talk nicely.

However, there's some other slots that takes priority to me right now and if I'm wrong and Elbirn was scum all along I'm not going to feel that bad. I've no meta knowledge in most of you and from a standard perspective some of you don't seem towny at all so yeah I'm starting from there.

If someone has anything to point out about Elbirn scum game or meta in general feel free to do so though, it would be helpful.

[Nibbui]

correcting some typos in the above post:

"He told me to stop role fishing someone here in the thread and asked about my apparent scum read on NSG that I had at that time".

I feel like I should stop being lazy and after Kokichi's flip, if still alive, re:read the game and point out some things. I've been really not putting effort at all this game (no, me just posting in the thread really isn't effort for town me).

However there's a problem:

I don't know if I'm going to have internet acess in the next days, and I can end up not having internet acess for a week even. I'll try to do what I can to stay in the game but dunno if it'll be possible. Maybe in this game in particular I could ask for V/LA since most of you already have a good read on me anyway.

I'm going to leave my vote on kokichi already though

VOTE: Kokichi

In the recent posts Kokichi seems to be trying to look engaged but I don't know Kokichi, it looks a bit superficial. Maria isn't good but she sounded somewhat better than you in her recent posts. and I have some reasons for not going for either Gamma or Fire here.

Kokichi, what do you think is towny about you here in this game aside from your claim?

What would you be doing differently here as scum?

[Nibbui]

My reads in this game are shit. I can feel it.

I probably should stop just looking at the slots doing outrageous things and look more at somewhat null or even superficially townie slots but meh.

I'll try afterwards and I feel I need Kokichi flip before that anyway.

[Nibbui]

@mod V/LA until 30th December, if I don't come back until then or if you feel that I have been inactive for too far even if before that, feel free to replace me.