Mini 2039: uPicketyPicketyPick Mafia Endgame

[RadiantCowbells]

Firebringer I just wanted you to know how much your continued support has meant to me through all these years and I've thought about you from the sidelines but until this moment I've never really realized just how much I want to be with you.

Would you do me the honour of a dance?

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think Sakura Hana will mind. I'll ask her.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's fairly typical NK15

[RadiantCowbells]

It's fairly typical NK15

This is not "nk15 is town"
This is NAI

[RadiantCowbells]

They do

Kiinda townvibing mutant here

[RadiantCowbells]

If it was he would have said "I am not literally a god of scumplay but I am a god of scumplay"

[RadiantCowbells]

Varsoon is by far my top scumread for the record.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am going to continue to ignore questions.

[RadiantCowbells]

Mine.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am in a neighbourhood with someone who has expressly objected to my powerlynching Varsoon right now even though my mind is already entirely made up that he's dying D1.

As a result I am just treading water waiting for 'enough' to happen that I am no longer obliged to hold back.

[RadiantCowbells]

I never said that you said that. I am in multiple neighbourhoods.

[RadiantCowbells]

"thorn in my side" like anything you are doing or could do would pose even the slightest threat to me if I was scum this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

The question isn't whether he has a vendetta because the fact that

he does

is entirely unrelated to his alignment, which is scum this game. He would have a vendetta against me this game if he was town too.

[RadiantCowbells]

all the neighbourhoods were generated after the game started.

[RadiantCowbells]

Chibi you don't have anything else to say to me about your vote?

[RadiantCowbells]

hold off for a bit fire plspls

[RadiantCowbells]

we actually don't, at least not from my point of view. he was trying his best to mislynch me in our last game and I said that he was a near 100% townread.

i did say he was playing fucking terribly but I never thought he was scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not trying to interact with him. I think that my interacting with him is the single least productive thing I could do and also bad for the gamestate.
I can read him better off how he interacts with others than me anyway because there's tons of baggage with regards to his me interactions.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why would Varsoon care? Varsoon has diplomatic immunity and the mods would jump at any opportunity to make my ban worse, Varsoon has nothing to lose and everything to gain by seeking to provoke me.

[RadiantCowbells]

"towards a player"

[RadiantCowbells]

don't get yourself banned too, criticizing varsoon's behaviour is not mod sanctioned.

[RadiantCowbells]

lol

i started at :08

[RadiantCowbells]

and i wasted 3 minutes at the end waiting for minesweeper to tick down

[RadiantCowbells]

i had no assistance and if i was scum i would still have been 100% confident in my ability to finish first.

[RadiantCowbells]

shout out to

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=32551

fake guilty makes scum forfeit

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm barely posting in hoods either

i just really don't care right now

i thought my minigame ability would give me a reason to care. it didn't do what i was hoping it would do.

[RadiantCowbells]

varsoon wants to lynch me for out of game reasons regardless of his alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

I could have finished it in sub 15 if I had seen minesweeper sooner and not been using a trackpad.

[RadiantCowbells]

if i was scum i wouldn't care.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm going to do my utmost to win the next game and give the reward to northsidegal because she is bulletproof for the remainder of the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

for a taste of your whiskey i'll give you some advice

[RadiantCowbells]

assuming you're town, this minigame problem isn't actually different than mafia, you know. like because of the way mafia is it 'feels' differently to you? like you 'feel' like you could win?

but mafia isn't different from the minigame. if i'm scum you can't win. you don't win. it's not happening. i'm too good at it, i'm far better at being scum than I am at internet scavenger hunts.
you can try to deal with that by derptunneling me in the way you are, by deflecting, by creating excuses to morally catigate me for the method of my win, but if i'm scum i'm winning.

you have no control and at some point you should relax, let go, and just not try to fight it unless I make a huge mistake which would make you able to win. but I won't.
and I don't deserve to lose as scum if I'm not making mistakes.

[RadiantCowbells]

you will never win a game versus scum me. i will outpredict everything. people have copped me and lost the game as a direct result of having done so.

Ask yourself, RC.
Have you EVER beaten me as scum?

you're not special. a lot of people have thought they are. they aren't.

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

actually there is a way to be able to beat me. read me consistently as town and people will trust you when you say that I'm scum. but your scumreads on me have no credibility, do they?

[RadiantCowbells]

so the trap that you and all the people who would be my downfall fall into is you can't read me. you massively jump me when I'm town, freak out, and then no one gives a shit what you say about my alignment anymore.
the path to beating me isn't the one that you've chosen to follow. you will never pose a threat to me until you can consistently say that i'm town when i'm town. there are no shortcuts in mafia.

[RadiantCowbells]

Then don't expect to be able to win versus me if I'm scum, sadly.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that what I've said is far more meaningful than just 'ego talk', but okay. I've said my piece and I'm tired of people policy scumreading me thinking it'll get them somewhere.

[RadiantCowbells]

I hard scumread varsoon's opening wall and I haven't tried to read anything else from him. At some point I've been meaning to do that since if the wall was in fact forced that might explain why it felt ultra forced. I dunno. We'll see.

If you're scum in this game and I catch that and I get enough people to lynch you, you're caught. Other games don't matter.

But you can't. It's hypothetically possible? but you can't. you just can't. can't be done. and repeatedly trying when you can't read me just discredits you the next time you try.

Maybe work on some townplay that's not so furtive, abrasive, and rude?
I dunno man.

The vast majority of people who have a problem with me brought their problem with them. You trying to policy lynch me when you know you can't read me is you bringing your problem with you.

Like if a hundred girls break up with you and you keep going, "Oh jeeze girls nowadays! I'm so tired of them thinking the worst of me! It'll never get them anywhere!" and not realizing, like, maybe the fault is with yourself, you're not gonna do well with relationships moving forward.

You say this but I got the most votes for favourite player to play with last year. I am fine with 'breaking up' with everyone I've 'broken up' with.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not taunting you at all. I'm telling you that your approach to my slot leads nowhere.
Because of pride you may see me stating that you don't pose a threat to me as an attack but it's not an attack and I don't say it to make you feel worse.
I say it because it's true and because it's something that it would benefit you to understand if you're town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Then don't expect to be able to win versus me if I'm scum, sadly.

This type of post just makes people want to lynch you in case you really are scum so there’s actually a chance to win

won't help though. I'm also amazing at setting up my partners. i've made a point of getting lynched by people who want to policy lynching me several times this year and setting up my partners perfectly to prove it doesn't work. there's no shortcuts here.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Varsoon

aight leggo

[RadiantCowbells]

Annie.

[RadiantCowbells]

"scumread the guy with the wallpost" like scumreading guys with wallposts is a thing.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not the problem here.

[RadiantCowbells]

not sure what you want me to do differently

varsoon has a hate boner for me and it makes me not want to play the game at all until he's dead plus I think he's scum but just through sheer resentment of years of being treated like this I can't bring myself to play.

[RadiantCowbells]

can't lynch firebringer we have four votes between us and i need them to kill varsoon

[RadiantCowbells]

"like i should"

[RadiantCowbells]

you can mislynch me but you can't survive the day after.

[RadiantCowbells]

Avoiding prod pls kill Varsoon he's scum

[RadiantCowbells]

My read on the gamestate aorn is that Varsoon and NSG are buddies and that neither actually wants me to get lynched, Varsoon is just picking a personality fight to prevent me from getting engaged enough to threaten NSG or get momentum and NSG is playing 'good cop' to stay on my good side without having to actually fool me.

NSG doesn't feel like her towngame and I've already said my piece wrt Varsoon

Elbirn is also a major scumread of mine

[RadiantCowbells]

My disrespect towards Varsoon previously blinded me to the fact that his push on me is really, really weak. Partially because he's shit at pushing cases as scum? Sure. But I also think more and more that he's not actually trying to get me lynched and not just in a consequence avoidance kind of thing, I think this is a deliberate decision to stall me out as opposed to threaten me and the fact that he hasn't actually tried to coerce votes on me or object to other wagons shows that he's happy with the gamestate. So maybe he's just stalling to look TvT or maybe this situation is because NSG wants me to be too busy dealing with this shit on D1 to read her.

[RadiantCowbells]

NSG's townread on Varsoon also feels wrong and the Firebringer scum Varsoon spewed town read feels really lazy, as do like the rest of her reads. She townread the usual suspects (TM) faster than I think she would have as town and her complete avoidance of the Varsoon situation except to attack Firebringer for trying to break it up gives me bad feels (tm) especially when she's willing to locktown Varsoon cuz spewed town by fire but I am equally spewed town by the same set of interactions and just nah nullreads from nsg

[RadiantCowbells]

No, I don't.

[RadiantCowbells]

We're resolving me and Varsoon today

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm busy watching my friend have a bad time with the weight of their sins crawling down their back.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's too late for that, Varsoon boy.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not coincidence that the moment I stopped floundering and started mustering my energy to fuck Varsoon up he put his vote on a lazy counterwagon.

But more on that later, I have better stuff to do rn

[RadiantCowbells]

Listen to me

Varsoon is dying today

If you want me to trust NSG's townread on you over my meh read on you don't be on a counterwagon, yeah?

[RadiantCowbells]

Spit your reasons out so I can explain why you're wrong.

[RadiantCowbells]

Carry on talking to me like you know I'm town and giving me more ammunition when it's time for you to be judged for your actions in this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to Varsoon who is treating me like town while calling me scum because he is a scumfuck and needs to be obliterated from the timeline.

[RadiantCowbells]

"some level of decency"

1) you never treated me with any decency so let's not pretend you did
2) you're arguing with me about your own actions like I'm town, not like you think I'm scum.
you appeal to my self image of my towngame like I'm town, not like you think i'm scum

but etc. because I don't feel like making the big wallpost right now. you carried on the way you were carrying on, and you're going to have a bad time.

[RadiantCowbells]

you're trying to convince nibbul that i'm scum while not actually voting me and instead trying to get a random ass nicorobin wagon going.
town you isn't stupid enough to let scum me live if you're as sure as you claim to be that i'm scum and are fully aware that lynching me is going to be near impossible

[RadiantCowbells]

there's no point talking a big game if you don't have the force behind it.

[RadiantCowbells]

every single person in this game knows that I do in fact have that force behind it, even you regardless of whether you like to admit it.

[RadiantCowbells]

it's really obvious that that's the reason that you're trying to derail, trying to make this about whatever nicorobin wagon, a reason why you're letting other people give you excuses to not vote me. you didn't actually want to 1v1. you didn't go around making appeals to people like you would have if you were town. you made a show of your big push on me in the hopes that you could tell people later in the game 'yeah but I wouldnt have attacked RC d1 if i was scum', but didn't actually try to get it through because you were afraid of waking the beast. you wanted the sugar without the spice. you're not wimpy enough around pushing someone you've acknowledged basically just wins the game for showing up to vote nico here.

you know how good I am as mafia, i've seen how you deal with me when you think I'm scum. this is obviously not it.

Does anyone else in this game know, in fact, that RC has the 'force' behind 'a big game'?
I mean, just a raise of hands
I'm genuinely curious what the consensus is here.

Anyway, man, that's gonna do it for engaging with you over your lies, posturing, and general funk.
I'm pretty much gonna hard ignore you for awhile unless you bold a question towards me that's pertinent towards gamesolving.
I hope that's okay.

This, and everything else on this page, is Varsoon hiding behind pretending to be "pro-town" to contrast with my not being pro-town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh and by the way in case anyone didn't know Varsoon is the exact opposite of pro-town, he totally derailed all town cohesion efforts in TAZ mafia.
He doesn't talk like this, in fact he blatantly disrespects this kind of play and said so explicitly. But since he knows he can't win by volume, he has to try to discredit me and get relatively easy townpoints in the hopes of derailing this and making it seem TvT to outsiders by seeming all 'reasonable'.

I'm gonna quote what I consider to be the best ellibereth quote of all time because it's very pertinent here.

Subject: Turn of Camn ~FIN~

Brian is capable of writing words that most people read.
mastina is not.

I don't trust people to just follow the order and I'm scared you'll start thinking for yourselves at some point and just not lynch implosion or not lynch brian because they're writing semi-reasonable words.

I want Brian -> mastina -> Implosion UNLESS I get everyone voting mastina to say they're commited to this order when each of them flip scum in turn.

this kind of bullshit appeal to being 'reasonable' and 'protown' and wagoning whatever meaningless nonposting lurker is exactly what scum do.

because Varsoon doesn't believe in shit. He doesn't believe in his scumread on me enough to push it apparently, certainly, even though he seems to think I'm obvious scum and am good enough to autowin if not dealt with. but what he does believe in doing is... being reasonable and protown. and that's one of MS's great failings. every time that I see some transparent scum do well they do well because they act reasonable and friendly and affable because people townread this kind of bullshit fake attitude. this isn't what real townies act like, this is what scum pretending to be town act like, and it fools mediocre players every single time.

see: thor and the desperado hydra in the games that varsoon quoted of mine. also see: varsoon here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Town!Varsoon doesn't get called out by his supposed top scumread, someone who is just by default basically guaranteed to win the game, and then respond by saying 'HEY LOOK HOW REASONABLE I AM.' Town varsoon doesn't care about how reasonable he is in the eyes of his goddamn top scumread. Town varsoon has objectives that he wants to achieve. Scum varsoon on the other hand needs to try to look towny to survive this onslaught. So instead he's going and appealing to the supposed protownness of his gameplay, to his top scumread no less, to derail this.

When what I'm advocating for is literally a 1v1 between me (Varsoon's top scumread) and Varsoon, which is essentially the only way for town varsoon to get the W here

But no, he's so REASONABLE for getting content out of nonposting Nicorobin, am I right?

[RadiantCowbells]

The fact you start in a neighborhood makes me think you're likelier scum than town.

Are you...not the guy who modded a game with an all town neighborhood, or did I make that up/misremembering something?

...My point being neighborhoods dont (or shouldnt) have any bearing on alignment and I think you should be aware of that :/

If I had designed this game, a game in which players compete to upgrade their roles in minigames, then I would give scum neighborizing powers/neighbors, so they can exert more influence over what is, on paper, a mechanic that swings in town's favor 2/3 of the time.

@RC: I've literally interacted with every single post in the first several pages of this game. I have interacted with every slot. The fact your read on me right now is so wrong is indicative that your judgment can not be trusted.
I am to then believe one of two things.
1. You are a good player but must lie because you are scum.
2. You are not a good player and can not discern my alignment accurately despite a huge amount of content to base a read off of.

What is it, RC? Are you scum and good at Mafia or are you town and willing to admit that you could be wrong about your 'top scumread'?

Why make this post as town? why argue with your top scumread about how not good he is going to be when you flip town?
you only make this post because A) you're trying to be an asshole and pick a fight with someone that you're not really scumreading or B) you're trying to deter him from pushing back on you

like derp derp derp oh no I'm sure scum RC will feel

so terrible

when he mislynches you and goes on to win the game, right?

[RadiantCowbells]

"hey lets argue about people's confidence in RC as a good player,

aka let's attack the quality of RC's reads

when I supposedly think that he's scum and it is thus completely irrelevant"
"i-its not like I am actually just trying to demean people's confidence in RC because he's now calling me scum or anything you b-bakas!"

[RadiantCowbells]

it has nothing to do with in game. what you and I both interpreted as him just being an abject dickwad to piss me off was just him being scum and trying to have it both ways pushing me and attacking my town play in case I push back.
so the good news is that it actually makes him a less morally awful person than he seemed to be because he's just scum and I don't think his motivation was ever explicitly to antagonize me as much as it was the benefits of doing so.

[RadiantCowbells]

and tbh I can respect that particularly since I don't think he actually intended to make me completely not want to play the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm 100% certain and i am gonna do what it takes to get this through so all that resisting it is doing is wasting time.
sorry if you don't like me strongarming things but this is 100% getting strongarmed and you can make that process a lot easier for both me and everyone else.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd appreciate it if we could stay actually focused where my focus is, which is on Nico.
RC's been actively trying to drown that out and make the game about him, so we've got to stand against that.

yes this is totally the approach of town varsoon here.

[RadiantCowbells]

like his 'omg im so protown relative to this guy trying to make the game about him' shtick is bonkers and fake as fuck I'm really not sure how you don't see it Firebringer.

How low is your opinion of Varsoon that you think this is actually how he approaches this situation as town? I'm curious.

[RadiantCowbells]

yes the sudden importance of the nicorobin thing as opposed to the single greatest scum player on MS who is in his opinion obvious scum but who is never gonna die without some big shit being flung at him makes much sense.
i mean it makes tons of sense from scum varsoon who is trying to get the focus of the game off of him and me, it doesn't make sense from town him tho thats for sure.

do I gotta keep doing this? if you agree then why aren't you voting him with me Fire? it's fate, destiny, and everything in between

[RadiantCowbells]

BUT WHAT ABOUT NICOROBIN THO THAT SLOT IS 100% SUPER PRIORITY HAS TO BE DEALT WITH RIGHT THIS MINUTE

RC? best scum player who is literally confirmed scum? nah he can wait gosh he needs to stop making this game about him!!!

[RadiantCowbells]

like his 'omg im so protown relative to this guy trying to make the game about him' shtick is bonkers and fake as fuck I'm really not sure how you don't see it Firebringer.

How low is your opinion of Varsoon that you think this is actually how he approaches this situation as town? I'm curious.

dude.

this is going into territory it doesn't need to go into. take a breather.

it's true though. he is objectively obvious scum based on his approach to this slot. to think that his sudden nicorobin bs from someone who has essentially claimed multiple guilties on me comes from town means that you think his town game is well beyond nonsense tier.

pls stop.

this doesn't stop while he's alive.

[RadiantCowbells]

but you know who has the power to end it? YOU. YOU can lynch scum and get rid of the thing forcing me to go full blown tunnel mode. It's your destiny, Firebringer. Reach out and take it.

[RadiantCowbells]

gandalf the grey?

[RadiantCowbells]

would have been uber worth. ftr Varsoon wanting to sort Nicorobin in the broad sense makes sense given their relationship, what doesn't make sense is his approach to my slot.

[RadiantCowbells]

wait

so the person who claimed to have scumread me are suddenly and conspicuously not voting me when I try to force a 1v1 between the two of us
and your response is to.. double down on your preexisting and terrible scumread on me instead of to objectively evaluate that information?

[RadiantCowbells]

nk15 used confuse ray

RC hurt himself in his confusion

[RadiantCowbells]

i mean its not early 2016 where i could basically say 'yo kill this dude' and they'd die but life is still good

[RadiantCowbells]

NK15 saying ridiculous things doesn't make him scum though i'm generally not opposed to lynching him at some point if he's gonna play as pseudo scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

varsoon first though, obviously.

[RadiantCowbells]

elbirn is varsoon's scumbuddy btw

[RadiantCowbells]

this entire game he's been making excuses for not voting varsoon in spite of the fact that he agreed that varsoon's opening was extremely toxic
starts by saying 'oh I dont think that varsoon would be toxic like this as scum'
then he made the excuse of 'oh i dont think that RC is actually reading varsoon, it feels like a personal vendetta that happens every game!'
now he's simultaneously saying 'oh I think that NK15 is right that Varsoon/RC is SvS (giving him an excuse to not clear me after varsoon flips)', saying that I should be lynched first, but saying he doesn't want to vote in this pairing because it's all 'personal vendettas'
he's trying to hide behind my push being some imagined personal vendetta as opposed to varsoon's scummy as fuck ISO to justify not voting is partner and giving himself an excuse to vote me if it comes to it

also before some dumbass says I'm saying this reactively because I'm annoyed that he's fighting my wagon, my neighbourhood can verify that I called this pairing fairly close to the beginning of the game based on elbirn's interactions.

[RadiantCowbells]

Let's uh
Let's try that again.

HI VARSOON ARE YOU TOWN? ^_____^

also the fact that I've gone this long against Varsoon and not one person has voted him essentially confirms him as scum

:shrug:

[RadiantCowbells]

are you currently voting him?

[RadiantCowbells]

mutant if you've acknowledged that varsoon backed out of the 1v1 because he didn't think he'd win it and that's clearly a scum motivated action, why have you not voted them yet?

[RadiantCowbells]

as the sole person in this game who has met annadog i should have the highest odds of victory.

[RadiantCowbells]

also elbirn portraying varsoon as the hero standing against RC's tyranny is fucking bullshit given that elbirn said earlier in the game, and I quote, "i don't know if scum-Varsoon would be this big of a twat"

I haven't voted anyone thus far in this game.

think that it's time for that to change.

[RadiantCowbells]

like when I wasn't actually making a big deal of the varsoon push to the point that it was unignorable, Elbirn was taking an 'oh Varsoon is being an asshole this game but i dont want to lynch him' point of view
now that I'm making a big deal of the Varsoon push to the point that it's him or me, Elbirn has entirely changed tac and now Varsoon is the victim, standing up against me ruining the game of mafia
pretty convenient point of view for scum with Varsoon to take, portray Varsoon as an asshole but not a scum one in the early game but when things heat up he needs to be fully on his side.

[RadiantCowbells]

You are my favorite person in this game, congratulations. Keep being you, please.

[RadiantCowbells]

bring him to L-3 or so before the minigame ends and we can cap it there.

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually I'm less sure of Elbirn now that I think about it. Might just be bad town.

More sure ? of NSG scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

There won't be a final 3 votes, mutantdevle, if there aren't a first 4.

[RadiantCowbells]

There's two really important concepts called

momentum

and

inertia

.
while

momentum

exists on a wagon it's easy to continue to progress the wagon and pick up more votes and finish lynching scum.
when

momentum

breaks then

inertia

sets in and it becomes a lot easier for scum to stall the wagon out and another wagon will then get

momentum

and end up receiving the lynch.
if we don't get momentum through votes I will maintain momentum through sheer force of will and that takes a lot more investment and energy from me than y'all just voting scum.

Oh no someone is dissenting from me REEEEEEEE

lying assbag? literally everything I said is true. maybe you're siding with the person who is demonstrably both in the wrong morally and alignment wise because he's your friend, but, like.
no.

[RadiantCowbells]

i think that scum varsoon absolutely would be this toxic to me and i've explained how it suits his game plan to do so. if you're going to oppose this wagon i'm going to assume you're scum with him and lynch you later.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm philosophically opposed to lynching for any other reason than "this person is scum"

We aren't lynching Varsoon until at least day 2 because I want to play the game with my boy

Stupid logic but I give not a fuck

[RadiantCowbells]

elbirn you're creating your own problem. I will lynch varsoon. you won't stop it. you can only force me to invest more and more of my time and make me more and more frustrated with you to the point I don't care about your alignment anymore.
I'm going to judge you based on the results of your voting. choose carefully who you vote for. i don't care how you feel about me i am holding you accountable for your decisions in this game so don't whine tomorrow if you die for defending varsoon.

[RadiantCowbells]

don't appeal to me otherwise because I think it's unhealthy for us to interact anymore. I am going to ignore everything that you post and judge you solely based on your votes.

[RadiantCowbells]

this is my last game here and I'm not losing it to varsoon. don't expect to see me again. don't expect me to feel anything about anything you say to me. i don't care about anything you do besides where your vote ends up.

[RadiantCowbells]

like you can talk to me and i'll respond but you'll get absolutely nothing from it. I feel absolutely nothing. i don't care. i really don't care. i'm emotionally miles away from this game.

i'm asking you to stop making posts that essentially appeal to me emotionally or as a person and instead just accept that I'm judging you based on your votes and that that's a perfectly reasonable way to play mafia.

[RadiantCowbells]

distract, deflect, discredit. the scum varsoon mantra.

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

That I beat the entire scumteam at it

[RadiantCowbells]

The mini game will be done before varsoon dies

[RadiantCowbells]

GL on your theses!

[RadiantCowbells]

do i need to walk through why varsoon's last few are even more transparent scumposting or do you not understand why varsoon's supposed priorities being 'firebringer 3 votes so no info' is not what he'd be talking about if he was town and the way that herepeatedly calls me out for lying is definite scum caught for the wrong reasons, and then you get the super scummy 'reality of the game at hand' shit

and then there's the magnum opus

They're trying to create this really obnoxious player vs player situation where there is none, and create the feeling that this is some NAI personal beef when it isn't.

i've literally done the opposite of that. it's other people a la elbirn who have claimed this. you are simply another scum that needs to be removed to win the game. it's nothing personnel kid.

[RadiantCowbells]

it won't je sus

[RadiantCowbells]

Please continue to blatantly dodge every time I ask you where your scum-meta of me is being informed.

This is another obvscum post to add to the tally

Chibi, what's different about this game from me? Fundamentally I think if you look back at how I dealt with LLD this is just how I play the game. You say worried about me being scum, I say if I were scum I wouldn't play in a way this likely to gather scumreads. Everything you said about Varsoon being reasonable and trying to hit notes that you follow are not towntells, they're scumtells, and as I recall I gave far less explanation about LLD than I have about Varsoon.

So if my playstyle annoys you? Fine. I'm over it. I'm not playing here anymore so I don't have to like avoid you or anything. But I'm gonna let you in on a secret: if you flip me you're just going to end up flipping Varsoon the next day. And he'll flip scum. So skip the step and flip scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's really clear that you're trying to ground my arguments against you as invalid and mired in personal shit, while also giving yourself wiggle room for when I flip town so you can throw your hands up and go, "See! I said Town Varsoon would have a vendetta against me too!"

Chump-mode.

Please continue to blatantly dodge every time I ask you where your scum-meta of me is being informed.

I'm gonna let y'all in on a secret

Varsoon keeps emphasizing this scum meta from his top scumread, why? If I'm town I'll just deliver it, right? Unless the reasons are all [redacted] and Varsoon knows it and wants to lampshade the fact that I'm unable to share details by repeatedly demanding an explanation of the one thing I can't give an explanation about.

[RadiantCowbells]

Idrc about Elbirn but I'm disappointed in you chibi.

[RadiantCowbells]

So what you're essentially saying is that both of our reads seem like we're TMIing the other scum, correct? The sheer certainty, the way we're pushing?
From there you should be asking yourself the question: "which of these two people is more likely as town to have a read that I don't understand and seems like a TMI read on scum" because the answer there is resoundingly me and is never Varsoon
so from your perspective Varsoon should be always scum whereas you should acknowledge that I look like this as town on occasion.

[RadiantCowbells]

you can even still think I'm scum but varsoon is a far better vote based on your own thoughts on the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

fwiw my read on you is nothing special, you're really just obvious scum varsoon

[RadiantCowbells]

also town!Varsoon only realizing now that I've been talking out my ass the entire game in a universe where he thinks i'm scum is...

i have a lot more respect for the people positing that this is SvS than the people who think this is TvT

[RadiantCowbells]

I really don't act scummy. firebringer is the sole person in this game who has any equity reading me whatsoever and he's sheeping me (even if he's not perfect, no one is.)
i'm just being me. you're going to find that the reasons that you scumread me in the newbie, like I said at the time, are utterly meaningless in terms of reading me and so you were 'right for the wrong reasons.'

[RadiantCowbells]

the difference between me and varsoon right now
is that I'm begging everyone to judge my alignment by the varsoon flip and focusing purely on what I can bring to the table lynching scum wise to prove that I'm town
and Varsoon is repeatedly bringing up that I'm 'making this personal' with him to get the idea in people's minds so that on the off chance that he manages to win the 1v1 he can then go in tomorrow and continue off of that line of thought.

one of the pair of us is willing to say that if this read is wrong they are scum by default. the other is not. that should tell you about who really expects the other to flip scum and who is just trying to survive.

[RadiantCowbells]

and yes, you and others are correct that is the kind of setup I would make if I was bussing. i don't think there's a particularly good way to determine if I am bussing or not here because all anyone can really read into me is that I know varsoon is flipping scum

but there's really only two worlds here, one where I'm scum with varsoon and one where varsoon is scum without me. and in both instances flipping varsoon is a good thing.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh
here's the thing

when my identity is undetermined i'm locktown by everyone because i just radiate townness. i have been lynched exactly once in an anonymous game or on an offsite game where no one knows me and it was an MU turbo where i was drunk and lurked. the issue is that i radiate the same town energy as scum so people train themselves to ignore it. being good at scum shouldn't be treated like a flaw in your town game but for some reason people think it is.

not a person in this game would think my play is scum if it didn't have my name behind it and you damn well know it.

[RadiantCowbells]

and that is NOT an MS thing specifically. it's mafia wide. you can only be a top tier player at one alignment because being good at scum handicaps your town game so much.

[RadiantCowbells]

varsoon ur a bad scum player and should feel bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh and yes, i originally was reluctant to push you or, really do much in this game, because i wasn't sure if you were just genuinely pants on head town

but then I realized that you would have been actually trying to get me lynched instead of just making a show of your scumread on me and being willing to jump on whatever wagon necessary
then when you were called out for the being willing to jump on other wagons when you should be voting me based on your claimed reads, you backed up and went back into tunnel me mode.

when your play was no longer feasibly pants on town I EXPLICITLY dropped all personality conflict from the issue, EXPLICITLY said that I believed you when you said that it wasn't personal and was just a game related thing

and then said you were 100% scum and there would be absolutely no excuses based on whatever if you weren't because I am damn well good enough at town to guarantee scumflips on someone playing like you.

[RadiantCowbells]

what happens when RC flips town?

[RadiantCowbells]

asking for a friend.

[RadiantCowbells]

my only mentions of personality conflict were to explain to Elbirn why his position was untenable based on his own claimed beliefs. this isn't personal. when I say I refuse to lose to you it's not because you're you its because you're playing bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

ok gamma
i'm gonna clear you because I doubt NSG would have you make this PT if you were buddies and at this point of thread avoidance with the varsoon wagon and their general interactions there's no way NSG is town anymore

gamma clear
mutant clear
rc clear
firebringer should be clear

nibbul probtown

nk15 leantown but not sure
chibi leantown but not sure

kokichi ? maybe leantown by varsoon interactions
mariar ?
elbirn ? maybe leanscum

think varsoon/nicorobin associatives make sense as buddies but this isn't a lock read

nsg scum
varsoon scum

[RadiantCowbells]

nk15 if you get me lynched you forfeit any control over the future lynches, sorry

it's varsoon then nsg

[RadiantCowbells]

elbirn dies for sure at some point ftr

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually I entirely take back the kokichi leantown, the associatives weren't what I remembered.

[RadiantCowbells]

i would say more than 2/3 of the time the game is won by

varsoon- nsg- elbirn- nicorobin- kokichi

[RadiantCowbells]

i am pretty good at tunneling scum as town, yes

Too bad there's nothing that indicates how they were informed
So it's just like the readslists that you drop when you're scum
And completely unlike the way you handle reads as town

And completely unlike the way you handle reads as town

And completely unlike the way you handle reads as town

[RadiantCowbells]

yes i am sure known for my thorough, thorough explanations of my reads thank you for your insight varsoon appreciate it

[RadiantCowbells]

huh, having a readslist is a scumtell for me. thanks for your great meta analysis varsoon, i'll see you next time.

[RadiantCowbells]

it's almost like i'm expecting to get shot tonight and want to have influence on lynches beyond yours.
i dont think i've let a whole lot of day 1s go by as town without giving a read on everyone unless i'm in a situation where i truly feel like the best thing I can do is only talk about my 1 read

do i need out to point to everyone else that that's an absolutely ridiculous meta point to even be looking at even aside from the fact that it's dead inaccurate?
like first off how does town varsoon do any meta and not know I post readslists a lot, but more importantly why is this something he's even talking about unless he's just trying to call me scum for something

You want me to townread you right?
Explain that read on NSG, then... at best in detail.

she had a really weird reluctance to give a read on varsoon in neighbourhood.
when prompted on it she said that she would be able to read him at some point but never gave a read.
when forced to she said that she wasn't really scumreading me and then tried to make me feel guilty.
she was also doing this weird cutesy thing in the hood that I have literally never seen from her ever and going to assume is just a scum ploy here.

there's also the fact that when the me/varsoon thing hit stride she has been entirely avoiding the thread despite posting elsewhere on site which is typical of scum her
particularly in a situation like this where she knows she will be murdered for voting me but doesn't want to vote varsoon either.

[RadiantCowbells]

In Chargin Up Mafia, RC was town and tunnels NSG and props this 100% NSG read rate, but that's not mentioned in this game at all. Instead, RC here is throwing up paranoia flags which is something I've never seen RC do as town.

*cough*

it's almost like i was wrong on NSG in that game so it made me change the way that I deal with her slot

[RadiantCowbells]

wow rc was wrong on NSG so he stopped propping up an 100% NSG read rate more at eleven!!!!!

[RadiantCowbells]

i was originally writing it for the hood but then i decided i'd post it publicly instead because if scum are reading it anyway there's no point hiding it and didn't ever change the opener.

[RadiantCowbells]

bull shit

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're conftown confirm yourself as such. i'm waiting.

oh wait I can't now and I accidentally used the wrong ability

ok i guess i have to do it tomorrow

day 2:

oh i used teh wrong ability, only 4 more left

day 3:

oh i used teh wrong ability, only 3 more left

day 4:

oh i used teh wrong ability, only 2 more left

day 5:

oh i used teh wrong ability, only 1 more left

day 6:

oops i got roleblocked :c :c :c

[RadiantCowbells]

what a great excuse for us to not lynch you for the next 5 days while you keep using abilities that don't confirm you as town

[RadiantCowbells]

you're still getting lynched today.

Well then. That’s kinda obnoxious that you can’t confirm effectively (read: I am in doubt mode)
Do you not find NK15’s vote hop just a little too trigger-happy though?

when he doesn't confirm today we're lynching him.

[RadiantCowbells]

note that that's not an if.

[RadiantCowbells]

also, no mod would design an IC roulette so the role in and of itself is bullshit

[RadiantCowbells]

My thought is that they only wheel this out after their wounded pride in order to make some huge point about them being a great player.
I think it'd be cool if we lynched him anyway, on principle.
Also he's kinda scummy for largely dipping out of the game, I've got an OMGUS read there, and I don't think town gets a day-neighborizer on D1 in this setup.
But uh it's clearly 'cus of personality stuff.
Let's bag 'em?

Unless FB comes in and claims masons/best friends.
Then you guys get him the day before LYLO if FB and RC are still alive
Capiche?

wow the IC who thinks that we're claiming best friends, this is totally a thing that would happen, 3 conftown

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

so let's discuss further why varsoon's role is bullshit

1) power budget: IC + other powers on one ability? that's an awful lot of power to give 1/3 of a role. all my roles combined are worse than an IC and he has one single role that's IC + a bunch of other stuff? nah.
2) nature of an IC roulette is bullshit. IC isn't like other roles, you don't just roulette it, it's a horrible thing to plan around being IC D1 and IC D6. I believe his roulette role, just that none of them are an IC.
3) he's just scum by play, sooooooooooooo

[RadiantCowbells]

Also Varsoon has not at any point approached this game like a conftown

[RadiantCowbells]

he's just scum man.

[RadiantCowbells]

no one who actually believes in their IC claim says 'oh now that i've claimed IC i am going to die'

he claims to have thought that he had very good odds of activating the IC today, no? so why is he all doom and gloom when he's supposedly being conftowned today a lot of the time

[RadiantCowbells]

he's probably scum with some variant of strongman ninja and some other moderate power roles on the roulette

[RadiantCowbells]

I wanna see what the modifiers are btw

I also wanna see what my role gets because I can get 6 upgrades AND THEN ALSO my minigame and quest modifiers
It's a hell of a role
So I'm probably dead meat for claiming it
shrugs and hugs
The faster I don't have to play with RC anymore, the better, though.
I can't stand that dude's play.

and to be clear this isn't about nightkills. the last two lines aren't said by someone who is town expecting to lynch me and have me flip scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

also claiming a super jacked role is heavy lynch deterrent given that I've already claimed that my quest role isn't dependent on my survival to be active

[RadiantCowbells]

Subject: Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

Also final and pretty damning point against Ventriloquist: why did he wait so long and post all of his major points at once?
Answer: because he posted simplified versions in scum thread and waited for his teammates to be able to review them and improve them.

'Simplified versions' - pfft, I can write for myself, thanks. You've done me a favour lynching me anyway, playing a longer game with you would be insufferable.

[RadiantCowbells]

Varsoon making excuses for how it's hard to separate my town game from my scum game when he's supposedly so sure that I'm flipping scum

[RadiantCowbells]

I thought you thought you were activating your IC today? No?

[RadiantCowbells]

So you're saying that when you were 'pretty sure' you were going to be an IC today you were actually 'pretty sure' that you weren't?

[RadiantCowbells]

When you start talking about how difficult I am to distinguish town from scum what purpose does that serve when your goal is to convince people that you've correctly read me as scum?
It doesn't. What it does have a purpose doing is if you are hoping to lynch me and have me flip town have people write off your scumread on me as either you being bad or me 'earning' the lynch so to speak.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm the second best town player in this game and if NSG had a scumgame equivalent to mine i could easily be first.

[RadiantCowbells]

"delayed IC"

you said you were pretty sure you'd be IC today tho

[RadiantCowbells]

idk you said it'd be PRETTY SURE that it would be IC

[RadiantCowbells]

As for flavor, I picked myself, of course.
I even made a joke about it while digging at RC in my wallpost with "You probably picked yourself, you narcissist."

My ability names are
-/in to mod

-Some elemental bullshit

-Steal from Alisae

-Progression!

-Back to basics

-Playerlist shenanigans

Each ability specifically adds a static modifier to my role.
I'm pretty sure that if /in to mod doesn't confirm me as town, then Back to Basics will.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh

so we have to wait for D3 before you'll even 'probably' be confirmed town

bru tal

[RadiantCowbells]

things that people don't say to their scumreads for 2000$, Alex. given that if I was scum, like, obviously that's what I'd be doing because it's to my win condition.

[RadiantCowbells]

or calling me a fucking liar. varsoon genuinely believes i'm being a fucking liar. he is so mad about it because he knows I'm town and it pisses him off that I'd do this as town to lynch him.

[RadiantCowbells]

it pisses a lot of people off how correctly confident I can be that they're scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

also if he claimed literally anything besides IC he would be lynched today. so he has to claim IC. if anything him claiming IC jacks up his scum equity massively.

especially when he's set up a role claim that gives him excuses for not having become IC at any point in the game before day fucking seven.

[RadiantCowbells]

'because its what you want, scum'

[RadiantCowbells]

i ask yourselves if you think it's more likely that we "randomly" happened to wagon the IC d1 or that we wagoned scum who doesn't have a choice besides claiming IC
AND that has claimed a variant of IC that's out of the power boundaries of the game, that allows him to say 'oh it didnt work yet', and that really doesn't make sense from a game design perspective
because ICs should either be immediate IC or able to claim themselves when they desire. randomly becoming IC based off of a roulette doesn't make sense as a role.

[RadiantCowbells]

like if you guys absolutely have to take this role at all seriously we're power lynching him day 3 at the

latest

off of his claimed 'pretty good' odds when they don't pan out

but this really is just a scumclaim.

[RadiantCowbells]

ok

i also claim i will be ic at some point before day 7

now im confirmed town

[RadiantCowbells]

WHOA VARSOON IS VOTING ME HE MUST BE SCUM

[RadiantCowbells]

DEAR LORD GUYS DO YOU FUCKING SEE THIS

IT'S MADNESS

[RadiantCowbells]

THE MAN IS VOTING THE PERSON WHO IS GOING TO BE CONFIRMED TOWN BEFORE DAY 7

[RadiantCowbells]

YOU KNOW, THE DAY THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN LITERALLY EVER IN THIS GAME BECAUSE ONE LYNCH ONE KILL MEANS THAT THE LAST DAY IS DAY 6
BUT LIKE I'LL BE CONFTOWN BEFORE DAY 7 BOIS SO TECHNICALLY MY FAKECLAIM IS

UNFALSIFIABLE

[RadiantCowbells]

ftr i respect the fakeclaim. this is probably the best play i've ever seen you make as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

just, like, not gonna work against me.

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

it won't be easy you'll think it strange

when I try to explain how I feel

[RadiantCowbells]

that I still need your love after all that I've done

you won't believe me all you will see is a girl you once knew

[RadiantCowbells]

at no point in this game will that role be disproven.

[RadiantCowbells]

also, wrong kind of frustration.

the self righteousness that varsoon would be exhibiting right now if he were town IC would be legendary.

[RadiantCowbells]

it's just going to tragically fail because he just happened to very sadly hit the wrong button and he won't be confirmed town tomorrow

or the day after
or the day after

[RadiantCowbells]

now he's making the roleblocker excuse that as it happens would have occurred to him a lot sooner as town

[RadiantCowbells]

"low"?

[RadiantCowbells]

kk

add maria to my lynch list

[RadiantCowbells]

oh I know

I think your behaviour around mafia in general is utterly inexcusable in your capacity as a listmod but hey

I'm not gonna be around to criticize it

[RadiantCowbells]

never said they had to be good at the game.

being good at the game isn't close to a requirement.

voting people for out of game reasons when they damn well know that I'm town isn't something a listmod should do.

[RadiantCowbells]

hey I'm going to vote someone to antagonize them
how dare they respond in kind

[RadiantCowbells]

wow rc's votes are consistently better than mine

i'm gonna get mad at them for not treating their reads like they're equal to mine even though they're demonstrably not!

[RadiantCowbells]

oh are you just scum then

i can forgive you for being scum i guess

[RadiantCowbells]

maria's 100% scum.
varsoon's 100% scum.

nico/nsg for last.

[RadiantCowbells]

they're deserved

or at least they would have been if you were town.

[RadiantCowbells]

for all your inability to read me you know full well that there are lines i don't cross as scum and this is well beyond that.

if you're scum who has to vote me to keep varsoon alive, acceptable. but policy voting someone you know is town as a listmod is not.

[RadiantCowbells]

varsoon is scum and needs to die? you know exactly who I am you know exactly how I'm gonna play this game and given my success rate calling people 100% scum you know that my read takes precedence here

[RadiantCowbells]

i never said you were 100% scum and you weren't even my top living scumread when I shot you.