Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Xtoxm]

My record speaks for itself and it's not just Labyrinth. In my initial newbie game, I called scumteam on D1 and was named MVP. In American Presidents, I called scumteam on D2 after which I was nightkilled. Town went on to win. I played a key role in winning Supp Mafia, pushing lynches on scum from D2 to the last day phase, when we won. I lynched scum in the recent Epic game, after which scum used their sole kill in the whole game on me. I've won all my town games on this site except the one that you were in, where again I told you not to mislynch Irrelephant (you did), told town not to mislynch Reck (they did), and then got screwed by Nos trolling.

You really need to get over yourself.

This is the definition of boasting

So, you believe Shoshin’s claims are somehow unfounded and you view her as arrogant. That makes her scum, how again?

No, I think the fact she has a good reputation and is incorrect about me makes her scum.

[AlmostNancy]

My record speaks for itself and it's not just Labyrinth. In my initial newbie game, I called scumteam on D1 and was named MVP. In American Presidents, I called scumteam on D2 after which I was nightkilled. Town went on to win. I played a key role in winning Supp Mafia, pushing lynches on scum from D2 to the last day phase, when we won. I lynched scum in the recent Epic game, after which scum used their sole kill in the whole game on me. I've won all my town games on this site except the one that you were in, where again I told you not to mislynch Irrelephant (you did), told town not to mislynch Reck (they did), and then got screwed by Nos trolling.

You really need to get over yourself

.

This is the definition of boasting

Lol @ having 2 strong instant scum reads in a large game.

Get ove4 yourself

.

[Xtoxm]

You missed quoting the part where I called myself a good player

[AlmostNancy]

My record speaks for itself and it's not just Labyrinth. In my initial newbie game, I called scumteam on D1 and was named MVP. In American Presidents, I called scumteam on D2 after which I was nightkilled. Town went on to win. I played a key role in winning Supp Mafia, pushing lynches on scum from D2 to the last day phase, when we won. I lynched scum in the recent Epic game, after which scum used their sole kill in the whole game on me. I've won all my town games on this site except the one that you were in, where again I told you not to mislynch Irrelephant (you did), told town not to mislynch Reck (they did), and then got screwed by Nos trolling.

You really need to get over yourself.

This is the definition of boasting

So, you believe Shoshin’s claims are somehow unfounded and you view her as arrogant. That makes her scum, how again?

No, I think the fact she has a good reputation and is incorrect about me makes her scum.

She is good but not a scumhunting God. This is weak reasoning.

[AlmostNancy]

You missed quoting the part where I called myself a good player

I didn’t cut off your quote?

[Xtoxm]

That's the point

[Varsoon]

Xtoxm, for some level of context here:
viewtopic.php?p=10541816#p10541816

I really, really don't like RC's approach of being turbo-aggressive "I am always right" on reads and, in a lot of ways, I saw that mentality/agenda in Shoshin's play, as town, in a previous game that we both lost to scum that had no business winning.

[Varsoon]

I'm seeing a LOT of my own frustrations with Shoshin playing out here with your slot
But you gotta look beyond Shoshin's mentality/approach and stretch your mind a bit further.
I'm not saying they're locktown here, but that getting frustrated and bogged down over how they're pushing you isn't helpful.

[AlmostNancy]

I dont feel like town-a50 can have a legit scum read on me here so thats a little sus

But what does my opinion matter

What have you really done for me to have a serious read on you? It's PoE and you're one of 5 slots I could lynch today, and

you do have a wagon you. and one that had both skitter & Shoshin joining before we did, so I told Nancy to sheep them. Otherwise our vote would have still been idle because Nancy is very conservative with her D1 votes by nature.

Well I don't expect a glowing townie read necessarily.
It's just that I expected you to approach it differently. You got me to l-1 and encouraged leaving me there. When I thought you would show a bit more caution. Than purging me on D1 on the basis of 9 posts. When you clearly have a favourable opinion of me. There was nothing along the lines of "let's wait for him to get into the game". It was Straight to "lets get a claim".

And because your approach surprised me this is why I have some suspicion.

What part of the bolded, did you not read?

[Nauci]

mewtaph replaced saude

Mewtaph replaced teacher

Saudade hasn't been replaced yet

[AlmostNancy]

That's the point

???

[AlmostNancy]

mewtaph replaced saude

Mewtaph replaced teacher

Saudade hasn't been replaced yet

Then who did NM replace?

[Varsoon]

Oh yeah the mewtaph slot ain't great, no.

[Nauci]

How am I meant to not scum read shoshin here. Going into this game all I see I about her are people worshipping her town game, and herself boasting about the perfection of her town game.

And then she death tunnels me.

So given the knowledge of my own alignment.

Do I respect her reputation, therefore indicating she's tunnelling me for a mislynch.

Or disregard her reputation and call her a townbeard.

Please explain how I not scum read shosin here.

Shoshin's town play is excellent because it forces people to post alignment indicative stuff with really good questioning and pressure

I don't know if I'd consider her actual reads super stellar (and she's normally rather stubborn about them, right or wrong)

Sorry shoshin

[skitter30]

mewtaph replaced saude

Mewtaph replaced teacher

Saudade hasn't been replaced yet

oh whoops, nm

[Nauci]

mewtaph replaced saude

Mewtaph replaced teacher

Saudade hasn't been replaced yet

Then who did NM replace?

...Nobody

He signed up for the game but didn't post in the first 2.5 days

It's too early in the game for us to be this lost!

[Varsoon]

I'd argue that it's kind of awful townplay, Nauci, as it completely gets stonewalled by anyone who's familiar with the slot and their methodology.
I'd actually PROVE that it's awful townplay, but I'm not scum this game, so I've gotta work with it.

[Varsoon]

Like it's perfectly fine level 1 play
But it gets snowed by anyone who doesn't conform to certain fundamentals and it's weak in reading town players who don't play in the ways Shoshin expects.

[AlmostNancy]

Town claiming pgo instantly loses all it's utility, scum will never target it. Scum claiming pgo gives itself a free pass from all night threats. If I was scum and got dealt a pgo safeclaim id be looking to claim it asap.

PGO is a VERY hard role to play. On the one side you want to obv!town in order not to be targeted by a Cop/Tracker.. etc, AND to get Scum to target you.

On the other side, if you do then you risk a Watcher/Doctor/BG being on you.

The BEST play for PGO is to claim early, and the get lynched the day before LyLo.

[AlmostNancy]

Varsoon, you know from experience that I can read Irrel so trust me on that, please.

Alright, then, I trust you on this.

How am I meant to not scum read shoshin here. Going into this game all I see I about her are people worshipping her town game, and herself boasting about the perfection of her town game.

And then she death tunnels me.

So given the knowledge of my own alignment.

Do I respect her reputation, therefore indicating she's tunnelling me for a mislynch.

Or disregard her reputation and call her a townbeard.

Please explain how I not scum read shosin here.

I've had the same sort of reaction to Shoshin.
Like even in this game, too!
I think I wrote something like
"You're either scum or your judgment is flawed.
Which is it this time?"
I think that's a pretty natural reaction to have.
The way Shoshin plays does infuriate me
And I do disagree a lot with their approach
But it doesn't mean they're scum
And it's best for town cohesion to work with it instead of just walling up against it.
That's basically the conclusion I've come to, at least.
Also, like I said, Shoshin's alignment sorts itself out well before lylo, no problem.

True, I hardtown read her in Labrynth until her negative interaction with CS but still always doubted the bizarre scumdoc theory but then she obvtowned it after the worst gladiated Wisdom and she had been right all along about random but no one (including me) was listening.

[Varsoon]

Shoshin's managed to skirt by with wins because
1. other players in town have been smart enough to make judgment calls on their own and sheep when needed and
2. other players know when to avoid the awful wagons Shoshin proposes sometimes

This is why I was trying to hit the brakes on people just blindly backing Shoshin everywhere and copping out Shoshin townreads because
1. Shoshin who gets what Shoshin wants will lose games--see TAZ.
2. Scum Shoshin is a relative unknown and could easily replicate this townposting.

[AlmostNancy]

Town claiming pgo instantly loses all it's utility, scum will never target it. Scum claiming pgo gives itself a free pass from all night threats. If I was scum and got dealt a pgo safeclaim id be looking to claim it asap.

PGO is a VERY hard role to play. On the one side you want to obv!town in order not to be targeted by a Cop/Tracker.. etc, AND to get Scum to target you.

On the other side, if you do then you risk a Watcher/Doctor/BG being on you.

The BEST play for PGO is to claim early, and the get lynched the day before LyLo.

True, their claiming it D1, looks townie.

[the worst]

I don’t think I’ve ever fake claimed as either alignment? Off the top of my head
I read the wiki about rolling PGO and it said it’s often a good idea to claim to avoid town deaths
So I did

I literally had a mental image of you randing pgo, going to the Wikipedia, seeing that recommendation and claiming accordingly

also for any onlookers rel's scumgame is fairly like.. "honourable"? I can't see him lolclaiming pgo d1 unless he's being coached?? or desperately trying to chanhe his meta which... doesn't seem like a thing he needs to do at all..

[AlmostNancy]

Scummy
Shoshin, a50, irre

A50 is not playing in this game, unless you mean >I< rolled Scum while Nancy rolled Town!

[Varsoon]

I'll reiterate what I said in postgame of TAZ:
Shoshin's biggest weaknesses are not considering possibilities outside of her own view of the game, both when it comes to setup design and player behavior--this, coupled with Shoshin's extreme confidence, can be very abrasive and harm town cohesion.
The HUGE difference I see between Shoshin and players like RC, though, is that Shoshin is still willing to actually negotiate with other players, even ones she disagrees with, to come to new conclusions.
So the ideal way to handle Shoshin as town is always to keep a level head and just talk it out with 'em.