Open 742: C9++ (Game Over)

[Persivul]

VOTE: Reaper

Circle up the wagons!

[Persivul]

Waiting on Reaper & Veridian to post.

We could Betelgeuse veridian.

VOTE: Veridian

[Persivul]

Ah, Gamma's case I don't think is good. But, I'm not sure if it's towny or not.

I was thinking the same thing.

Gamma, what was your point with 47?

UNVOTE:

[Persivul]

VOTE: Egix96

This guy is vaguely scummy

With only 2 posts?

Hence the word vague.

You're answering for Dunnstral because...?

[Persivul]

Overkill asked for reasons so I gave them

OK, wanted to make sure you weren't just trying to get us out of RVS or something.

VOTE: Gamma

[Persivul]

"answering for Dunnstral"

What? I already responded to that

Why do you think he would jump in with an unnecessary supplemental response?

[Persivul]

I mean that shouldn’t require explanation if I’m explaining a read like that?

I voted you because it's a lazy read on a newbie for doing newbie things.

[Persivul]

Because he was adding on to the discussion and to the game?

Was it just an offhand observation? Could he be scum trying to buddy you? Maybe he's nervous and felt the need to say something but couldn't think of anything else. If so is that townie, scummy, or NAI?

It's not like we were waiting for me to respond to something

My initial comment was aimed solely at him. It had nothing to do with you. But now your defensiveness is interesting.

[Persivul]

I think the newb defense falls kinda flat with their first post: who posts something like that while foreign to the community?

Er...someone who's trying to be friendly to get into the community maybe? And who noticed the welcome thread that's at the top of every section?

[Persivul]

You're either scummy or you're not, seems pretty black and white to me. I didn't say it was a reason to be tr, people are trying to paint me as defensive with the implication that it's scummy

I'm considering that it could be scummy. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) you have a history of getting run up on D1. I'm also considering that maybe defensiveness is a reason for that.

[Persivul]

OK, lead me through this, please. I agree

asking if we could get auto VCs

in request is something that comes from someone who has played on a different site where that's a thing, but is new to MS.

However, I don't see what's "a newbie thing" about saying they won't count votes themselves at the opening 2 pages of the game. I agree with Gamma that if I didn't care to go through 30 posts to count votes then I probably don't care about the VC anyway, hence the original question becomes sort of "tantalizing", if you know what I mean.

Gamma formed the scum read before the vote count issue even came up.

So...why are you pretending like that's the main issue?

[Persivul]

Did he though?

Yes.

He said he knew a scum already, but he didn't out his read until after it became obvious (to him at least), so he would have a case. Are you telling me you never SR'd someone on gut band waited for them to do something more obvious for you to vote them and state a reason?

So you're defending him by saying he's town who's tunneling?

[Persivul]

Yeah, when you see someone as scummy, then interpret everything they do through that lens, that's called confirmation bias, aka tunneling. If he's town. Otherwise it's scum targeting low-hanging fruit.

[Persivul]

Scum will never shoot the IC this game. PP doesn't do shit when he's unconfirmed, so I would expect him to not even be reading as IC.

As long as he's not making stupid fake claims that do nothing but confuse the game, he's fine by me.

[Persivul]

Scum will never shoot the IC this game. PP doesn't do shit when he's unconfirmed, so I would expect him to not even be reading as IC.

As long as he's not making stupid fake claims that do nothing but confuse the game, he's fine by me.

Ah-ha! NOW we're getting somewhere.

1- How does my CLAIM get called a "hint"?
2- It was clear enough, so how is it confusing?
3- How can you tell if it's fake or not?
4- What is even scummy about asking people NOT to protect me?

See, even you're confused by your own fake claims. You don't know what game you're in.

[Persivul]

How about you npoint out my "hint" or at least direct me to the post #, please?

Is this to me? If so, why do you put "hint" in quotes when I never used the word?

[Persivul]

What are the numbers in parens after the voter's name in the VC?

[Persivul]

Because I sure as hell didn't claim, so you must've thought I crumbed something.

Nope. You spoke of PP's

past

behavior (as you see it), and I'm speaking of yours.

[Persivul]

Do we have to lynch someone on the first day?

Well, yeah, that's customary.

[Persivul]

I mean that shouldn’t require explanation if I’m explaining a read like that?

I voted you because it's a lazy read on a newbie for doing newbie things.

I thought overkill was a newbie due to his join date and that he started with a newbie game and so isn't an alt. However, I've just read his ISO in that newbie game (1899) and he has experience from other sites. So, he's not really a newbie.

I'm going to re-read this game tonight.

[Persivul]

Prob just gonna push this game to the back burner for now. So enjoy this fluff post of nothing.

There are only 4.5 days left in phase.

When exactly is it moving to your front burner?

[Persivul]

As I recall...Open 668, but I was scum and you replaced in and ruined it for me.

So...

There you go. So, IF you're Town you are following a trend of SRing me anyway.

My advice is for you to ISO me and point out (to yourself) what scummy things I did so far, and IF you can find any, try to think why Town!me could do them too. If you can't find a Town motive, then and only then can you come back to me with your homework and if you're not satisfied with my answers you can glue your vote on me for the rest of the day.

Did you really just emphasize "if" I'm town?

Is that a problem

Well, yeah, considering that PP is the mod-confirmed IC.

[Persivul]

Ahhh

So...why aren't you and A50 paying attention enough to know that?

A50 actually acknowledged it at one point, then forgot.

Could be playing too many games.

Could be that scum generally don't have to pay close attention D1.

[Persivul]

You don't think scum would remember who the IC is?

Careful scum would. Cocky scum - maybe not. Absent busing, there's not much risk of a scum lynch D1. There's been times when I didn't pay that much attention on D1 as scum.

[Persivul]

OK. This probably tells how attentive I am to the game right now.

Yeah, that's particularly funny since earlier you commented that, since he was IC, he wouldn't be paying attention.

[Persivul]

Maybe later. Even before this wasn't on the back burner nothing popped up for me wanting to comment on it. *Shrug*

Isn't it town's job to stir up some shit for people to talk about?

[Persivul]

Having a scummy meta does not make one immune from getting a mafia role PM. I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face.

I wish there was a slow clap emote right now.

[Persivul]

10 day phases. I pointed out yesterday we were down to 4.5.

[Persivul]

^just vote this

Sure, I null read the orginal player but LoL is doing some strange tunnel and not explaining anything.
VOTE: LoLwagons

Not explaining anything? He entered with a full reads list with post references. That's a hell of a lot more than you've done.

[Persivul]

You mean "entered with a full

agenda

" that he executed poorly. Right?

Possibly. I like reads lists, but goodness knows I've replaced into a scum slot and made a similar post. Usually buys some time at least. BUT...that wasn't overkill's charge. Overkill said he wasn't explaining anything, which is clearly false (and hypocritical).

Notice how he entered throwing shad on those who hopped on his slot's wagin, namely ROS & Clem? He then voted Clem which appeared to be lining up with his declared line of thoughts.

Then he "got what he wanted" from Clemency so he votes >me<. What? Where did his suspicion of ROS go? I'll tell you where: He came in with the idea of pushing >ME< anyway. He was just told to disguise it so as not to be too obvious, so he said that thing about hopping on his wagon thinking I was one, but voted Clemency first.

To be honest I hated your vote on that slot. I wanted to vote you too, but I also know that: you could be helpful if town; and, I just don't particularly care for your playstyle and I'm therefore biased against you. So, I held off.

Personally I find that whole wagon scummy.

But he

made a mistake

by forgetting whom he himself stated were the suspects (according to his own reads at entry point) and shifted directly to voting me, which was also a bit opportunistic since both listmods voted me before he did.

Reads change, and he did explain it after the fact. But yeah, it was abrupt, and I'm still scratching my head over "I have egg on my face. Sorry Mara." Wagons, what did that mean?

[Persivul]

Yes, because scum!me would totally go nomadic rather than have a solid plan.

Personally, if I roll scum and I'm in several games - yeah, there's really not much reason to pay close attention during D1. Just enough to not do stupid shit like forget who the IC is, even after noting that he's IC.

Did you even care to meta dive me before you made this post? NVM, meta. Do you think that's how I bloody won 5 out of my 8 previous scum games?

You know that's just 1 better than expected, right?

[Persivul]

Votecount 1.10

LolWagons(4)

~ Gamma Emerald(42), Almost50(45), ReaperOfSouls(7), Clemency(33)

Gamma voted Shema in 44 and hasn't moved since.
Reaper has 7 posts and 1 vote, and merely used your call for votes as an excuse to vote here.
Clem plays more for fun than for real analysis and is also riding your coattails.

I mean, come on Almost, are you really feeling good about being on this wagon?

[Persivul]

Personally, if I roll scum and I'm in several games - yeah, there's really not much reason to pay close attention during D1. Just enough to not do stupid shit like forget who the IC is, even after noting that he's IC.

Although really, after my last post - yeah, I doubt even a distracted scum!Almost would be on that wagon.

[Persivul]

Went to check meta on egix. In Newbie 1898 he was town, and he had more posts and more content in those posts than he has here, so I was getting excited. But, in 1890 he was scum...and he also had more posts and more content in those posts.

[Persivul]

I have a reputation as a good scum player that I have to defend, and being this inattentive doesn't help.

You know that unless you were playing a lot of multiball (and you weren't), 5 for 8 is just one better than random, right?

[Persivul]

Like, you started off by being suspicious of me, and now you're trying to convince me the other votes on the wagon are bad? Really? Do you thing the whole scum team decided to tunnel a lurker??

No. But, I think if this wagon hangs on, it might end up going to lynch by default. If he flips town, those three will just blow it off by saying they got on when the slot was vacant, and as deadline approached they didn't think there was time to go elsewhere.

I don't have a problem with them voting for wagons, but I think they should have real reasons for doing so, or it's a crap wagon.

[Persivul]

But I was! At least one of those was Multiball, and the 3P win was as a Serial Killer.

No you weren't! One was a real multiball.

Games are supposedly balanced for a 50/50 win rate. Out of 8 games, average players win 4.

[Persivul]

Started as a wagon to ensure pressure. But lol hasn't given me a reason to remove my vote.

Quite the opposite.

OK, what's your case on him?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Reaper

[Persivul]

I am still suspicious of Clemency, besides snarkily posting wikipedia he hasn't make a legitimate defense

What legitimate defense had Reaper made at that point?

[Persivul]

Started as a wagon to ensure pressure. But lol hasn't given me a reason to remove my vote.

Quite the opposite.

OK, what's your case on him?

[Persivul]

i have a massive headache and now i have to deal with you people wagoning another townie?

Says the guy who's about as useful as tits on a bull.

[Persivul]

Good question, town points for Gamma.

[Persivul]

me, duh

Any others?

[Persivul]

What am I making a defense for again? For adding my vote to a inactive slot when asked?

No, for this:

Started as a wagon to ensure pressure. But lol hasn't given me a reason to remove my vote.

Quite the opposite.

The bolded means you have positive reasons to vote the slot. Yet when asked for those reasons, you can't give them.

[Persivul]

lol had applied pressure when they replaced in. And instead of going after the starters of the wagon, they went after the low hanging fruit. The lynch bait. Because it was easy. First Clemency, and now me.

Well, yeah, the people who jump on a wagon without reasons are frequently scum read.

[Persivul]

Shema has not posted after being prodded, seeking replacement. They can continue in the game if they post before a replacement is found.
Prodding Lovebird.

I'd add another 2 votes on this one to force the replacement to catch up and play rather than play for time.

I am willing to be one of them.
VOTE: Shema

You're really not in a position to charge others with going after low-hanging fruit.

[Persivul]

I added my vote to apply pressure on an inactive slot. So yes in that sense I am guilty.

Yep.

But I was the third vote.

You're new and apparently haven't heard it yet, but there's an old rule of thumb that third person on the wagon is scum.

Am I going to be you're first this game?

Maybe. The Wagons wagon is shit - three people have old Shema votes sitting there, and the fourth made a shit argument. IMO Wagons did well enough to not get lynched today. That leaves you as the only other currently viable wagon, with less than 1.5 days left in phase.

After our interactions I don't really want to lynch you at this point, but I'd lynch you before Wagons.

Do you have another target to consider?

[Persivul]

[Persivul]

Not that you'd support. Just curious, how many mislynches do you average leading in a normal game?

I'm not leading your wagon, so...why do you spin it that way?

[Persivul]

Yeah, that reasoning applies to a seasoned player, but I don't think you can accurately apply much of that to a newbie like Reaper.

[Persivul]

Yeah, that reasoning applies to a seasoned player, but I don't think you can accurately apply much of that to a newbie like Reaper.

Ok, let's play.. why does moob-Scum!RoS choose to follow me unto Lol over FoS'ing me for requesting more votes on a practically vacant slot? He had a choice between two different/opposing options, so why did he see it more beneficial to him/his team to take one over the other?

Er, because an absent slot isn't going to defend, whereas you would?

I'm not crazy about the Reaper wagon, I just dislike it less than the LOL wagon. I gave Reap an opportunity to name someone else to wagon. I was hoping he'd go for Gnelf actually. I would have gone along with it.

[Persivul]

Shouldn't I wait for intent?

Yep.

When I flip just a few observations. Persivul isn't playing as 'town' as I have experienced and even if he is, watch the mislynches with him. And anyone else notice how Maria came to life and sheeps lolwagons. Learn from the flip.

So you should have pushed me or Maria. Or just explained your read on LOL. This is a game of communication.

[Persivul]

Shouldn't I wait for intent?

Yep.

Let me qualify that. Yes, generally intent should come before the claim. But, note that there's only about 21 hours left in phase. If you're going to wait for intent, you need to be available to play as deadline approaches.

I didn't want to say this before because I don't like to tip off scum, but after a bit of our discussion I suspected you might be a TPR who's frustrated at the prospect of claiming or being lynched. That's why I asked you to name someone else to push. I wanted to work with you. But you made that impossible.

[Persivul]

Toughen up dude, mafia's a rough game.

[Persivul]

Hrrm. These interactions don’t feel right.
@Persivul why are you telling RoS to take things less personal, I don’t see where he has been?

495

[Persivul]

It seems to be his style. Let's put it this way. My experience with him he's been wrong more than he's been right.

Of course I'm wrong more often than I'm right. When you're looking at a 6:3 group, if the scum are at all competent, you're going to be wrong more often than right.

[Persivul]

Deadline extension
UNVOTE:

[Persivul]

Almost tell me who to vote.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Gnelf

Can we just kill this?

[Persivul]

VOTE: LOLWagons