[Game Over] Open 743 - The Crown of Misery

[Persivul]

VOTE: Leodanny

[Persivul]

VOTE: Leodanny

Not random BTW.

[Persivul]

The game will begin when 10 players have confirmed their roles and all undead have chosen theirs.

At one point everyone but Inferno and Leo had confirmed (so there were 10+ confirmations), but the game wasn't open (so, scum hadn't chosen their roles yet). Could be one of those two is scum and that was the holdup. Doesn't prove anything, but I'd keep an eye on them.

[Persivul]

The game beings when all roles are distributed and confirmed.

Mod should have followed this instead of the 10+ thing. In this kind of setup, early starts always lead to speculation, like:

Inferno hasn't confirmed or posted yet. Could be that it's scum and mod just let the other scum choose as a majority. But on the face of it, this slot seems less likely to be scum.

[Persivul]

Dunnstral's post 25 I dislike a lot -- after two fluff posts, he places a "completely random vote" on *me*, when I already had two votes and my wagon was growing.

And that's scummy rather than towny because...?

[Persivul]

I just finished a game where I locktowned scum

Why would you ever locktown anyone (aside from certain claims in certain setups)?

[Persivul]

The phrasing, "completely random vote" when I was collecting votes and my wagon was growing quick, with no vote till then.

1. You really think he's so inept at scum that he'd try to disguise a purposeful vote by outright announcing it as a completely random vote?

2. Two votes /= collecting votes and my wagon was growing quick. Why the hyperbole?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Lamees

[Persivul]

I'll agree this might lead to players who play very poorly being lynched every game - hopefully it will teach them to not play poorly. I fail to see the issue.

<slow clap>

[Persivul]

I'll agree this might lead to players who play very poorly being lynched every game - hopefully it will teach them to not play poorly. I fail to see the issue.

<slow clap>

What's the problem with this?

There's no problem with it. The slow clap indicates I agree with the position.

[Persivul]

So why’d you change your mind?

First, it's not really accurate to phrase it as I

changed my mind

. The setup issue I noted is weak and was mostly intended to help get out of RVS. I haven't really looked at you since. In fact, let's do that.
...
Now I've read your ISO, and I really wouldn't mind keeping my vote on you, particularly after the attempted spin above. But, let's stick with Lamees for now:

- three useless posts on the setup. She didn't follow up on the two questions. She was specifically asked for the reason for the questions and didn't respond.

- 101 - "He agreed with me though, so he can't possibly be scum." Seems like this is sarcasm intended to be funny, but then:
102 - "I'm also not trying to be funny."

- 144 149 233 - reads are way too strong for this point of the game

[Persivul]

Okay. I thought the slow clap implied sarcasm.

Nope. There are people on this site who have adopted a scummy playstyle. If they stick with it long enough, then:
- they're difficult to sort.
- they're difficult to push. Too many people accept the

it's just a playstyle thing

excuse.

Fuck that. If you're town, you have a responsibility to show you're town.

[Persivul]

Edit:

do not talk about ongoing games

[Persivul]

I'm rearraning this a little.

Why would it be "inept" for Dunnstral to do that as scum?

Because people doing a surface analysis will read it as being scummy.

Why does someone have to be inept for me to dislike something they did or said?

They don't. It's incorrect to try to generalize that comment to all situations.

Two votes on page 1 and I don't think it's a bad *page 1* conclusion to make that "Auro is getting wagoned".

I do. It's two fucking votes. Besides, if you're town, you should welcome a D1 wagon. It's a wagon on the only person whose alignment you actually know, so it generates better information for you than wagons on others.

[Persivul]

Thing is, I don't think some "naturally scummy" players do it intentionally.

And? They should

intentionally

learn to play a better game.

It takes a little more effort to sort them correctly, but I think it's bad to lynch players who aren't doing it intentionally -- Lamees gets scumread and lynched early fairly often, but that hasn't stopped her from playing the same, has it?

Here's what I see in her complete games:
MT 2044 - killed N3
N 1892 - survived and won as mafia
N 1893 - lynched D2
N 1894 - lynched D1
N 1895 - survived and won as town
N 1900 - lynched D3

So, no, she isn't lynched early fairly often. She's surviving pretty well actually.

Why do you say she's an easy mislynch when that isn't the case?

Why hasn't she corrected you?

[Persivul]

Even if there was contradiction (which there isn't) how is it even alignment indicative? Why would I as scum make contradicting posts?

Seriously? Appearing to be making reads while also maintaining ambiguity is what scum do. Good scum anyway, and I see you have a scum win.

[Persivul]

1. And people doing a surface analysis are easy to defend against, and I doubt town would bandy together on a surface analysis.

You're admitting that you made a push that wasn't going to do anything.

2. Cool, then. So someone doesn't have to be inept for me to dislike something they did; this implies that it's possible I disliked what he said without actually believing he'd be inept for doing it as scum.

You can dislike whatever the fuck you want. Point is that, unless you think he's inept scum, it's not going to get you anywhere, as you admit above - such things are easy to defend against if the scum are any good at all.

3. "I do" what?

You said you don't think it's a bad conclusion. I do think it's a bad conclusion.

I do welcome D1 wagons -- where did I say I disliked the *wagon*? I disliked his phrasing of the vote, two different things.

136 gives me that impression - particularly the *me*.

[Persivul]

Are you guys really learning anything from this?

[Persivul]

Still evaluating if Thor's attack on me is genuine.
He seems uncharitable towards any semantic misinterpretations I make, and I am getting confused by what he's saying, or least am continuing to interpret his posts wrong.
What do you think of our interaction?

He's not exactly attacking...which has me concerned.

My general impression as the game unfolded was that you were

taking over

so to speak. That always concerns me. There's no more dangerous scum than one who has taken over the town. So, I've been watching you and poking at you. So far, you look town to me. And, town leaders tend to sort themselves out over time.

I don't get all this talk about "efforting" (and just turning effort into a verb bugs the hell out of me). You seem to me like the type that just continues arguing out of stubbornness, even if it's not helping you read and you don't need to defend. I get that. What I don't get is why Thor keeps on about it.

[Persivul]

We're lynching rb. I've seen this happen too much and lost games as town because of it. Not letting it go. My vote is on rb for the entire game until one of us gets lynched.

It's 1 to vote lamees
2 to vote lamees

I want an example where town has ever tunnel like this and what would the reason be. I have been in this situation before and was scum doing it.

So you're scum claiming.

That's a bold strategy, Cotton.

[Persivul]

I know what you're saying. Point is that you did the same, so by your own criteria you're scum.

[Persivul]

Still want NotNova

Why?

Maybe because they're on VLA...

[Persivul]

Holy OMGUS Batman!

[Persivul]

wow real power roles stay quiet imo

JUST STOP THE FUCKING WOWs and IMOs PLEASE.

[Persivul]

Maybe because they're on VLA...

This is white knighting a slot that should by all rights be null to you

No, pointing out that a slot is VLA isn't white knighting.

and shading me for pushing a null slot that is coming back from V/LA is anti-town.

Yep.

Could also do Mala today

Why?

VOTE: DVa

[Persivul]

What experience do you have with me that would expect me to let something go if I thought it was scum indicative?

The thing is that I don't see why you would see expending effort as scum indicative. Town is supposed to expend effort. Scum therefore have incentive to expend effort. So, effort is NAI.

[Persivul]

I rolled angel though

Why did you claim? You were only at L-3 and deadline isn't near. I was beginning to come around on you anyway.

If you were lynched rn, who would you venge kill?

[Persivul]

I rolled angel though

pls no one counterclaim this fake claim imo

You're not at all concerned that it could be a real claim?

[Persivul]

if they are actually angel and town, i welcome the vengekill to get me out of this tbh

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Consider:

Smite (reactive)
When an angel dies, the skies will open up and strike a creature of its
choosing. Unliving targets will be slain.

Angelic kills work in a similar way to priest and witch hunter investigations. They kill
undead and ghost-possessed creatures, but spare non-undead and immortals.

The smite is in effect a cop investigation, as long as we know who the target of the smite is before the angel dies. So we lynch Lamees and:
1. She was scum who felt pressure and gambled that town hadn't roled an Angel, or

2. She's an angel and she smites rb. Then:
2a. If rb dies, great - he was scum.
2b. If rb lives, then he's pretty much conftown. 342 doesn't seem likely from an immortal, who would want an investigation on himself. Then scum have incentive to kill you, although they have to consider the possibility of protection.

[Persivul]

That rb post right before my claim was the last straw.
Who would I kill is a secret.

Ouch. Ugh. That's like the worst possible answer you could have given.

[Persivul]

if they are actually angel and town, i welcome the vengekill to get me out of this tbh

Lol oops. Looks like you slipped.

Meh, I thought Angel was regular vengeful too. I just went to the beginning to see if scum have daytalk and only then recalled that Angel only kills scum. This isn't a solid slip.

[Persivul]

Lol if you think angel should be lynched day 1 then please go back to posting "wow imo" posts.

We don't know that you're angel.

Why do you scum read rb so hard, yet wouldn't say that he'd be your smite target?

Why would angel want to keep its smite target secret, thereby depriving town of valuable information in the event the target survived? Yes, GF is a possibility, but it's still valuable info.

[Persivul]

"Angel gets a kill-therefore we should lynch day 1"

That's basically saying I should gamble on 3/9 odds. Nice work.

How is it random odds when you have such a strong scum read on rb?

[Persivul]

You're forgetting the amount of scum power roles out there, can't just name a target.

Why...
Not?

I see only pros to naming your target. Please explain the cons.

[Persivul]

Communication. The game thread will be locked during the night phase. Private topics
(such as the undead talk) will be open at all times.

Scum have day talk. I think this makes it less likely that Lamees is scum making a fake claim. If I were her partner I'd say

No fucking way should you risk a CC when you're only at L-3

.

[Persivul]

*claims angel at L-4 on day1*

*lectures other players about how to play the game*

hehe

Are you saying it's scummy play, or just bad play?

Seems like the latter to me. And, we can use it to our advantage. Scratch my earlier plan. Now let's consider:

- Every day before lynch, Lamees names her target in case she dies at night
- Then, scum can't kill her without giving us an investigation leading to a partial clear (partial because GF could be in play)

[Persivul]

You're forgetting the amount of scum power roles out there, can't just name a target.

You're right, at least regarding nights. Forget my last plan. Ghost would make it unworkable. Also more town points for Lamees.

[Persivul]

so you, as the angel, for some reason didn't want to risk getting lynched as an angel with a smite mechanic...the whole point of your role?

Unfortunately, that's a good point too.

[Persivul]

[Persivul]

Yes I'm needy , please talk to me.

What do you think of the fact that Lamees claimed at L-3?

[Persivul]

@Pers, scum is informed about what PRs town has

Oh fuck, I missed that. Sorry for wasting a page.

VOTE: Lamees

[Persivul]

Now if it was a gambit, it would obviously be a planned one, not random.
We need to evaluate the effectiveness of fakeclaiming Angel early, and proceed from there.
If it's way too stupid to do (and right now I feel that) we could buy the claim, since we could lynch her later when there's a smaller pool, for a better chance of hitting scum anyway.

Or we could just kill it in the face.

[Persivul]

I'm here if you wanna talk to me.
I'll be on my laptop soon.

Fucking tease

[Persivul]

Or we could just kill it in the face.

If she's town,

First, that's a big if.

then we make better use of the vengekill by lynching her later, no? Correct me if I'm wrong.

If you assume she's town, then you're saying we are at some point going to be:
- knowingly lynching town (discounting a NK, which is out of our hands), and
- as it would be a planned decision, we don't get real information from the lynch.

If I have to knowingly kill a townie for no information, I'd rather do it early, while we have a large numbers advantage.

Suppose we miss 2 days and it's 6:3. Do you really want to waste a lynch on a townie at that point?

The slot shouldn't go to LyLo though I think

But that's what would likely happen. The only way scum kill her is if: they have a ghost; and, are very confident that she would select a certain townie for the smite. Otherwise, killing her is all downside for them, no upside.

[Persivul]

Try to post at least once a day. Being inactive for 36h will result in a prod.

Looks like Dunn and Mala are due for prods.

[Persivul]

I rolled angel though

Lol if you think angel should be lynched day 1 then please go back to posting "wow imo" posts.

Er, OK - what day

should

Angel be lynched?

[Persivul]

This mod is on the ball!

[Persivul]

In my opinion, town should never be lynched. Even vanilla, which is basically what angel is alive. Hence my early claim. So it's kinda win win. If players don't believe I still get a smite.

Cool, we're in agreement - lynching you is a win.

And if they do, scum will be forced to night kill me,

No, they won't be forced to kill you. They'll kill you, or not, depending on your reads. You could accordingly disguise your reads, but then you're of no value to town anyway.

But if you are pushing an intentional town lynch that is a bad play, in my opinion.

You're not an IC.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Lamees
Unless someone convinces me it's a bad idea to lynch Lamees today.
If Lam is scum, great.
If she's town and scum have a framer, they have to correctly guess her venge kill, so larger numbers works for us, and we don't deal with the WIFOM.

The role card doesn't specify, but I would think that for a lynch, the smite resolves in twilight, so scum have no ability to affect it.

[Persivul]

I expected this kind of reasons to vote me if it was last minute. Anyway I think I gave ample time for players to evaluate the claim. If by end of day 1 you'd still knowingly lynch town then can't be helped.

Really hate the way you keep spinning this as knowingly lynching town.

You're
not
an
IC.

[Persivul]

Actually wait, in LyLo we can lynch Lamees and she venge kills the second consensus scumread.

Nope, lylo is lylo - lynch scum or lose.

Suppose it's 4:3 lylo.
Kill Lamees, 3:3.
Lamees kills scum, 3:2.
Absent a protection, scum NK and win.

Removing one of each side is essentially a no lynch, which loses in lylo.

[Persivul]

Okay, I've just had a quick skim through everything that happened since the last time I was here, which was about 24 hours ago.
Does anyone else think that rb's most recent posts (from about #339 onward) are very scummy in tone? Apart from the supposed scumslip, that is?
Maybe I'm getting hardcore pocketed by Lamees here, but in all honesty I would much rather lynch rb today.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: rb

We could lynch Lamees and, if town, she smites rb.

@mod: if an angel is lynched, does the smite resolve before night begins?

[Persivul]

@persivul, for the last time, I am not telling who I'll smite!

I noted some time ago that I agree with that.

[Persivul]

Anyways I'll say it one more time before I move on from this claim. I do not think we should lynch me day 1 as 3/9 odds are low. I prefer a 50/50 or more and I'll be fine with my lynch.

50/50 or more means scum have already won.

[Persivul]

The better odds argument doesn't fly. Remember, if you're really town angel, then yes, you have better chance of hitting scum as the game progresses (unless we're really good scum hunters).

BUT...the exact same thing can be said of the town lynch. If we assume you're town and lynch you one day before lylo, we've given up a lynch with a higher probability of hitting scum.

You're asking us to put the higher probability day solely in your hands, rather than in our collective hands.

[Persivul]

If you're really angel, you should have kept it to yourself.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ful_(role)

Claiming Vengeful Townie is not advised (unless your actual role is Vengeful and Mafia-aligned). The effect of giving its faction a bonus kill is useless unless you yourself are worth lynching - otherwise it's obviously more profitable to lynch the player you would Vengefully kill while leaving you alive. Thus, Vengeful claims under duress are seen as grounds for a policy lynch.

[Persivul]

rb (L-4)

: Lamees, Leodanny, Egix96

Lamees (L-4)

: Malakitty, YyottaCat, Persivul

Leodanny (L-6)

: Thor665

DVa (L-6)

: NotNova

Dunnstral (L-6)

: rb

NotNova (L-6)

: DVa

YyottaCat (L-6)

: Dunnstral

Something_Smart, Auro

@mod: is Angel REQUIRED to use the smite if lynched?

[Persivul]

Meh, you've probably bought yourself one day, but this isn't over.

[Persivul]

I already said in 419 that it applies to everyone. Only thing differing me from a VT is the smite part. Which I would prefer to use later. What you are arguing is that because I claimed, I could be scum that's lying.

Yep.

Everyone claims to be town and could be scum lying.

Yeah, but no one else went and claimed for no good reason.

[Persivul]

Game Mechanics

If an angel is lynched, the smite resolves during twilight and before nightfall.
Ghosts cannot affect the outcome of smiting during the day.

Guys, this means we *can* use Lamees' day smite as a cop (barring immortals) since the ghost can't frame someone, right?

Yep, that's why I asked about it.
Unfortunately, I'm doubting Lamees will ever consent to using it that way.

[Persivul]

MS meta is to claim important town power day 1 when it isn't needed

Yeah isn't that the truth.

[Persivul]

Bad ss, hanging Lamees isn't good play since I'm pretty sure they're town and scum doesn't fake claim that role

Seconded.

To both: what's the downside to scum fake claiming that role?

[Persivul]

Like NN just came back, Yotte slot just got replaced, and you never directly interact with them about Dunn

Like, why are you not sorting them? You just ask bland general questions to the entire thread like "why isn't anyone joining me on Dunn"

Instead of asking EVERYONE that ask someone specifically for a read on Dunn

If you're trying to understand associations and thought processes you need to actually see reasoning

Are you actively interacting with every slot?

[Persivul]

DVa (L-2)

: NotNova, Egix96, Lamees, bristep123,
Persivul

rb (L-4)

: Leodanny, Something_Smart, DVa

Dunnstral (L-5)

: Auro, rb

Leodanny (L-5)

: Thor665, Dunnstral

Lamees (L-6)

: Malakitty

Every time you switch off a lurker to push someone who is talking *only because they are talking* you give the lurkers REASON to lurk

This game is basically unreadable because NO ONE IS EXPLAINING JACK SHIT in their reads, and that is because the lurkers are giving a hard pass for NO REASON

So you're voting a top poster instead of a lurker. WTF am I missing something?

VOTE: DVa

[Persivul]

Does anyone know if she gets this tilted as town?

I don't, gonna have to check her meta at some point.

Once I was scum and in the pregame, one of my buddies said something like

I'm not good at normal play as scum, but if I can get into a 1v1, I can usually get town read

.

Reading DVa's attack on rb brought that to mind for some reason...

[Persivul]

Neither of you are going to be today's lynches, so let's not have that spiral.

I really hate comments like this.

[Persivul]

Thanks for taking the time to explain the game to me mister, I'll sure make sure I'm a hundred percent better player now!

I know, it's like Auro thinks we voted him king or something.

[Persivul]

It's not just that. See above - you declaring that certain people won't be the lynch. I really hate it when someone thinks they're in charge of the whole town.

[Persivul]

I think DVa is a bad lynch, and her I think her wagon prolly has scum on it.

DVa (L-2): NotNova, Egix96, Lamees, bristep123, Persivul

Who?

[Persivul]

Oh, I think you're reading that incorrectly

Ah, so now it's my reading comprehension that's at fault.

-- I wasn't quite "declaring" that they wouldn't be the lynch.

Yes, you did.

I meant something along the lines of "You both don't look like you're today's lynch at this point; this is blowing out of control; please stop".

At that point rb had top wagon and DVa was tied for second wagon. How did you conclude that neither looked like they'd be today's lynch?

[Persivul]

That's definitely a very good argument, Lamees, a solid rebuttal to my last list

VOTE: DVa

that's L-1

no one who hammers here should be scumread for hammering although you're welcome to scumread for other reasons if you want

come on, save MDS the replacement hassle

I don't know this mod's rules but generally, one you request replacement, you don't post anymore.

[Persivul]

Get a room guys.

[Persivul]

That scum pool is really bad

What's your scum pool?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Leodanny

[Persivul]

Okay I think the right play is to hang Lamees

and have her shoot rb

.

Although actually, given the chance of GF, it might be better to just hang rb.

This assumes she flips angel.

NSS. If she's not angel as claimed she's presumably scum, right?

[Persivul]

NSS?

No Shit, Sherlock.

It's written as if he doesn't expect her to flip scum.

Maybe he doesn't. I don't, but I'd vote her if their was support for it. I don't like messes like that going to end game, and if she's town, we at least get an investigation out of it.

It's not a hard slip, which is why I referred to it as feeling slippy or whatever

It's not a slip at all.

[Persivul]

To those without a vote (Egix96, Malakitty, Dunnstral, Auro):

Read Leodanny's ISO and either vote there, or explain why you won't.

[Persivul]

Why leodanny?

Like I said, read his ISO. He hasn't done much at all. Then, go read his ISO in Newbie 1898, in which he was town. It took him awhile to warm up, but then he was fairly engaged.

[Persivul]

Why are you defending him so hard? You say you noted yourself that he hasn't done much here, so you can't reasonably have a strong town read on him.

[Persivul]

I'd say another valid hypothesis is that you're scum trying to pocket a newbie. Or scum buddies.

[Persivul]

It's not necessary to have a strong townread on someone in order to defend them. I'd defend even a scumread from an accusation I thought was unreasonable.

Oh, you're one of those ***** that butts in so the questioner doesn't get a reaction to judge.

[Persivul]

I mean, I voted him and nobody was interested

So vote him again. Nothing's changed about him.

[Persivul]

Compromise lynches?
Not interested in an RB wagon.
Your slot I wanted out but I really liked your post, and the wagon was not impressive before the replacement.
Thor, Dunn, Egix, S_S, bristep are all wagons I'd be fine with ATM but I don't think there's enough to actually case any of them.

Let's vote Egix?

Way to vote Leo then suggest a new wagon an hour later.

[Persivul]

Has your read on RB changed? That's still a wagon you could push, right?

Is that to me? Cause I haven't been on rb.

[Persivul]

Persivul you're my only townread, tell me who's scum

I don't know, I'm pretty useless on tone reads, which is basically what you have D1. I get better later when there's some VCA and NKA.

[Persivul]

Like, RB's cop TMI slip is the closest I have to a grip on this game

I seriously doubt that's a slip. Sometimes people forget to say "if" or "hypothetically" or whatever.

[Persivul]

If scum knows there is an angel and also a priest (highest chance to roll) in the game then it makes sense for them to choose both immortal and ghost. So this gives our town power roles not as much effect.

It also says if a ghost were to frame a town player, that player will die when smite is used. Only person I remember was insisting that I name a target is persivul.

VOTE: persivul

Read again. When I read about the ghost, I retracted the idea of you naming a target before night. I then checked with mod about a lynch scenario, and IIRC mod verified that the smite from a lynch takes place in twilight, and so could not be affected by a ghost.

[Persivul]

You guys realize that angel dying at night and hitting a framed town target is better than angel dying at night and hitting a town target that they didn't say in advance...

No, I don't realize that at all.

[Persivul]

realistically the cop should just check

whoever they think is likely to be scum or

someone they think can't be sorted easily

If scum is participating, then theoretically town can eventually catch them. That's the whole point of the game. Investigatives and vigs should target people who aren't participating enough to be sorted. There are some exceptions, but this generally applies.

[Persivul]

If angel hits framed town we have a scummy town dead, equivalent to a vig shot.

You're assuming she would pick a

scummy

target. I don't share your optimism...

[Persivul]

Fair enough, but since she'd be announcing it ahead of time we can at least give her some guidance.

1. She hasn't shown a willingness to work together on the ability so far.

2. By announcing, we remove the possibility of her hitting scum. If she announces scum, they simply don't kill her. If she announces a townie they're not particularly concerned about, they likewise don't kill her, as it somewhat frames that person the next day.

Mod seems to have considered such uses of angel and countered them.

I was under the impression that she'd pick rb... do you think that'd be a bad choice?

Yes. He's participating. Vig shots are for lurkers.

[Persivul]

I will start reading soon, anything I should know before reading? Like any claim?

Lamees claimed Angel. IIRC she was only L-3 at the time.

[Persivul]

One of {Thor, Auro}, but I believe it’s Thor. Possibly Dunn. Egi isn’t playing similar to our last game.
I don’t have a read on Nako or Bristep they are null.
Rb is prob town. Smart, persi are both town. DLA is prob town.
Leodanny im unsure because he’s so new, but gut says scum but he might be town IDK.

This is pretty close to where I'm at.

Mala could be scum - but probably not for the reasons that have been given.

[Persivul]

Oh no I'm late

Reveal the undead by asking more things! Auro, who do you think is most likely to be scum?

Based on other people, VOTE: lamees, I won't know if it was l-2 or something like that

Nice iso

VOTE: YyottaCat

VOTE: Leodanny

Not impressive

They look like town to me, I like posts like 456 and their early stuff felt towny

VOTE: Leodanny

but majority of the game you have been going over the LHF and lurkers

.

No I haven't

Yeah, actually you have.

[Persivul]

wow can we just lynch dunnstral

Let's find out.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Persivul]

People need to vote.

[Persivul]

Nope.

Mala's been around awhile. If I were scum and she were town, I would have tried to take advantage of her shaky start and lynch her D1. So, it wouldn't surprise me if that's what's happening here.