[Game Over] Open 743 - The Crown of Misery

[DVa]

Setup is scumsided so of course I roll town

zzz

VOTE: Auro

[DVa]

You've not found it very difficult to townsort me in our previous (completed) games, so why the "RVS" vote on me?

I'm blaming you for talking me into joining this game and then having the audacity to let MDS roll me town.

[DVa]

Damn Egix, from the cute dog avi to the REALLY cute kitsune avi

What did you have when we first met? It wasn't the dog avi then right?

[DVa]

I'm guessing that town!DVa would have appreciated the challenge of playing as town in a setup that she herself perceived to be imbalanced against that alignment. It's not a particularly strong tell, but it's a start.

lol, wrong. Every time I join an open setup that I think is town-sided I roll scum and every time I join an open setup I think is scum-sided I roll town. It's like a meme at this point. I think feeling like I can turn a game into a win is more fun for me than "a challenge" since mafia is hard enough on its own. Even an "easy win" can feel quite challenging

Also,

@mod

, sorry didn't mean to cramp your style with balance discussion

VOTE: Yvotta

[DVa]

Feel like Overwatch is not the right theme for this game. Maybe Diablo 3?

I'll be Demon Hunter then
Egix you wanna be Witch Doctor?
Nah, Auro is probably Witch Doctor
Egix you can be Crusader ok?
Thor can be Wizard
Pretty sure Dunn claimed Barbie
So who is our Monk? Need our buffs amiright?

[DVa]

My "non-serious content" is "LAMIST"?

VOTE: NotNova

[DVa]

A new wagon in RVS isn't a "vanity slot" and I don't have to townread you to change votes to someone who isn't posting content yet.

[DVa]

That is some dedication to flavor text for a replacement, hot damn

[DVa]

Okay thanks gurl

you trying to be vigbait or what?

[DVa]

How many scum are in this group of 3 players?

YyottaCat
NotNova
Malakitty

[DVa]

Yeah I find getting people to speculate about inactive slots can on occasion give those slots more motivation to post more content

Also some of the more active people are townpinging me so sorting the inactive slots is more productive

[DVa]

one is VLA, one just replaced in, one joined the game late

Like, yes? But the replacement and the late joiner both have done nothing since getting here, so...

idk seems like a lot of people recently join games but can't post for weeks at a time due to the holidays so sorting early game stuff recently has been kinda messy

[DVa]

this just looks like a way of dodging interacting with the game

asking the town to comment on three null slots is "dodging interacting with the game"?

[DVa]

except for NotNova town leaning

Why is NN townlean?

[DVa]

It kinda bugs me that he starts off with the "man I have a hard time sorting Auro" and then changes votes to me and says townlean on Auro with exactly 0 additional interaction. Like Auro asking a few questions does not make his alignment obvious so I kinda feel like NN's development over his whopping 3 posts actually does not look very townie

[DVa]

Wow. Is Dunnstral usually like this?

I'd say the games he's had with Maria feel different form normal Dunn. So I wouldn't say Dunn (-Maria) reads the same as Dunn (+Maria) if he feels off tonally.

That doesn't mean he's town or that tone doesn't matter, it just doesn't surprise me that he seems kinda more freewheeling here so far

[DVa]

Auro is doing like a LOT more questions than he was like in one of our previous towngames where he was more assertive a bit early on, but that could in large part having to do with this list being... gnomic and oblique so far. So he does feel a touch more reactive here but I don't know I'd call him scum for it yet

[DVa]

Is there anyone here you were at risk of calling an easy locktown?

[DVa]

Lamees (L-3)

: rb, Malakitty, YyottaCat, Persivul

Leodanny (L-4)

: Thor665, Auro, Egix96

rb (L-5)

: Lamees, Leodanny

DVa (L-6)

: NotNova

YyottaCat (L-6)

: Dunnstral

NotNova (L-6)

: DVa

Something_Smart

Still want NotNova

[DVa]

It's Thursday

[DVa]

Can do this too though

VOTE: Persivul

[DVa]

Maybe because they're on VLA...

This is white knighting a slot that should by all rights be null to you and shading me for pushing a null slot that is coming back from V/LA is anti-town. Unless you are explicitly townreading NN that was a 'undead-friendly' post.

That being said I reread your iso so I'm going back here

VOTE: NotNova

Could also do Mala today

[DVa]

So vengeful can be a survivalistic claim because it is obviously better at later phases, so if Lamees was a scum pr it could make sense. But it's also the case that going to day 2 at least will confirm that the night flip isn't a tpr and also give other roles a chance to do stuff. The problem right now is that when lamees has minimal information his chance of hitting a tpr is only marginally lower than hitting scum if he's town (either 1/12 or 2/12 vs 3/12).

I think evaluating whether Lamees is a good lynch will be easier on day 2 as well as the likelihood of his hit landing not being catastrophic

[DVa]

NN why is Mala a better vote than you rn?

[DVa]

...not sure where you're going with this? I don't think I ever mentioned Mala in my posts.

Yeah I know I'm basically asking you to give a read of Mala since if I'm not voting you I'm voting her. Why should I be voting Mala over you, from your POV?

[DVa]

I'm looking for people who I see little reason to townread right now. We have a lot of annoying lynchbaity players right now so I'm more interested in players with noncommittal attitudes tbh

Not entirely sure I follow your reasoning on why you would prefer my vote to be on you if Mala is basically null to you

[DVa]

mala is a terrible lynch

why?

[DVa]

also because mala's likely town

mala is a terrible lynch

why?

fyi Voting Lamees is not a reason for Mala to be likely town

[DVa]

Also notice rb seems to have stopped the whole "wow... imo" crap after Lamees' claim

please don't jinx it just let it happen

[DVa]

Okay thanks gurl

this level of lynchbaitiness in a setup with no 3p usually comes from town is my main thought but that isn't like a strong townread and pushing him for content is probably fine, I just think he's more likely to flip town and there's scummier nulls

[DVa]

It's not a well thought out fake claim because even if people believe you it gives a mechanical reason to get lynched

That's true, but I have seen newred claim vengeful before thinking it will keep them alive through wifom.

Also, I feel like scum more often does very early claims.

Still don't scumread Lamees, still don't want to lynch him today, but the claim was not great, and the whole thing has more left him a nully mess for me than town.

[DVa]

Bri what's your read of NN and Mala?

[DVa]

What makes you think that?

Maybe I've played too many games with the Duck on my main and it's messing up my sense of what scum "normally" do

[DVa]

rb (L-3)

: Lamees, Leodanny, Egix96, Something_Smart

Lamees (L-4)

: Malakitty, bristep123, Persivul

Leodanny (L-6)

: Thor665

DVa (L-6)

: NotNova

Dunnstral (L-6)

: rb

NotNova (L-6)

: DVa

bristep123 (L-6)

: Dunnstral

Auro

Weird meta analysis and weakreading.

What meta arguments are you referring to as weird? What do you mean by "weakreading"?

[DVa]

I stand by it, going into detail would give you an argument to make against it.

Yes, and this would help me understand your thought process better as well

You already gave some reasoning; it wasn't a naked vote, so why would you not flesh out your thought process more? I don't get why you'd only go halfway here lol

[DVa]

So why are you acting like you're certain I'm scum? You said you had a "bad feeling" about my slot but you're unwilling to flesh out the substance of what gave you that impression. If you're trying to sort me shouldn't you actually try to have a conversation rather than saying "hmm I dub thee scum" and then hoping the town decides to agree? Because otherwise it seems like you're just testing to see if I will be an easy mislynch or voteparking somewhere you don't think you'll get backlash. I'm not seeing how an unwillingness to discuss your thought process has any town motivation if you are still uncertain as to my alignment

[DVa]

I say "acting" because in your vote post you seem far less certain than you are in subsequent posts, so I'm having trouble both understanding the reasoning behind your FoS and your apparent level of certainty

[DVa]

fine with this even though dunnstral is better

why are you compromising when there's eight days left on the timer?

[DVa]

So I guess this goes back to your thing all day, which is that you want to reward the lurky, non-presence players by pushing anyone who tries to interact with them?

And in the meantime, taking pressure off Dunn, when your interaction with him might have made it easier for other people in the game to read either one of you?

k

[DVa]

VOTE: rb

Play better or get mislynched

[DVa]

You've mostly just been rude and obnoxious this game and your reads are terrible so it's not an omgus vote, you're starting to convince me you're a liability to town. I think you're likely to be a mislynch but if you keep playing like garbage then you can eat rope.

Putting 0 pressure on lurker slots and moving away from your top scumreads to join a wagon that has two lurker slots with very close to naked votes on them is basically straight playing to a scum wincon, and your condescending attitude in conjunction with your incredibly unfunny memes makes me uninterested in carrying you if you're town.

So it's not an omgus, I just have started to not care about your alignment. Stop playing to scum wincon if you're town.

[DVa]

lamees doesn't fit that criteria, and dunnstral actually is one of the lurky low-presence slots

who you just fucking moved off for ???? reasons

[DVa]

You literally just moved off a lurker slot to join a wagon on me *for no reason that I can understand*

[DVa]

So far your main pushes have been on Lamees, who right now I think has a decent chance of being town, and me, who I know is town

Your push on Dunn was the only thing you had going for you and I wanted to see if anything came of it

But now you're just joining a bandwagon started from what amounts to a naked vote to move off *what you accept was your top scumread*

And you're acting like being the only one on Dunn was bad, that's what I don't get

[DVa]

Like NN just came back, Yotte slot just got replaced, and you never directly interact with them about Dunn

Like, why are you not sorting them? You just ask bland general questions to the entire thread like "why isn't anyone joining me on Dunn"

Instead of asking EVERYONE that ask someone specifically for a read on Dunn

If you're trying to understand associations and thought processes you need to actually see reasoning

[DVa]

lol are you real

It's like you're acting like if town doesn't just automatically sheep you that nothing will happen so you need to sheep... what, naked votes?

Why not actually press for reasoning from the slots who basically have said nothing until the last 24 hours?

[DVa]

You're acting like there were really stable, well-developed wagons with clearly articulated reads

[DVa]

um, have we played mafia together before, i don't think we have

why would this matter

[DVa]

'ask the people who don't talk what they think'

YES

Do you not fucking get that?

GET THEM

TO TALK

Saying "I'm voting you because you're talking" is the stupidest fucking thing I think I've seen all day

[DVa]

Every time you switch off a lurker to push someone who is talking *only because they are talking* you give the lurkers REASON to lurk

This game is basically unreadable because NO ONE IS EXPLAINING JACK SHIT in their reads, and that is because the lurkers are giving a hard pass for NO REASON

[DVa]

k eat rope

[DVa]

Dunn is also capable of doing things as scum

In fact I would say Dunn 'does stuff' more as scum than he does as town sometimes, although it also depends on the playerlist, which is precisely why seeing him interact with other people might be productive.

If you think Dunn just defaults to scum because he is not super active then you're vastly underestimating his scum range. I don't think a push there is unwarranted but you're basically saying that he's scummy for little content when slots like Mala that as far as I can tell have exclusively pushed wagons on town and done 0 sorting are town

and is bristep readable to you?

[DVa]

it doesn't provide any pressure for me to sit on dunnstral if no one is going to join the wagon

switching to the wagon of another scumread because they're likely to interact is much better for the gamestate

and to that point - hey look, we just had a whole lot of interactions, and why? wow because i switched votes!

yeah and if you're town then this is TvT and all you've done is made me annoyed at you to the point that your will have a harder time reading me because you have lost your credibility

You are acting like no one was ever going to join on Dunn. Maybe you could have explained your reasoning more, asked for other people to give reads on the slot, etc. etc.

But switching to a player I know is town right after a null lurker slot comes out of the woodwork and votes me looks opportunistic and damages my read of you

it also makes it seem like you are uninterested in genuinely sorting Dunn

[DVa]

mala also obvtown

You've said this multiple times and reads like nonsense every time

WHY?

I don't even know she's scum but I don't see why you're pretending she's easily readable here

[DVa]

Vote me for activity then you are basically saying you're trying to piss me off, so yeah, I'm going to see your other reasoning in a negative light.

Don't want to be seen in a negative light? Give me the sense you're actually trying to sort people and not just throwing out bullshit, unsupported reads

[DVa]

in fact if you have such a problem with dunn, why are YOU not voting him with me?

What if I was actually considering that before your completely shit vote on me?

[DVa]

rb (L-3)

: Lamees, Leodanny, Egix96, Something_Smart,
DVa

Lamees (L-4)

: Malakitty, bristep123, Persivul

DVa (L-5)

: NotNova, rb

Leodanny (L-6)

: Thor665

Dunnstral (L-6)

: rb

bristep123 (L-6)

: Dunnstral

Auro

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

you're talking, dunnstral isn't

[DVa]

You decided to move off someone you said was a stronger scumread to someone who was posting more because they have the larger wagon

I can see how you think this is townie but, if I am town, you perhaps can understand it also makes you look like desperate, opportunistic scum, given the push on your own slot?

It makes it seem like you are more worried about being lynched than in genuinely sorting

[DVa]

Yes, this convinces me your top priority in this game is sorting other players

[DVa]

In that case would you prefer helping me bus?

VOTE: Dunnstral

[DVa]

OK, I'm happy to oblige

VOTE: rb

[DVa]

Leo is still in this game?

[DVa]

So Dunn just came back

Where's your big interaction with him?

[DVa]

Dunn, what do you think about rb's push on me?

Do you think we are TvT or not?

[DVa]

it's good to have wagons it lets us see how people react to the pressure and also provides voting patterns for later day readbacks.

You're absolutely right, voting someone with no explanation and then acting defensive for being asked to explain your read is something that's likely to generate very good content on the off-chance that the person you're voting actually is town

It's not at all make them uninterested in helping you solve the game

thor/NN/mala

UNVOTE:

Bye

[DVa]

That's definitely a very good argument, Lamees, a solid rebuttal to my last list

VOTE: DVa

that's L-1

no one who hammers here should be scumread for hammering although you're welcome to scumread for other reasons if you want

come on, save MDS the replacement hassle

[DVa]

This isn't a tantrum, this is optimal play.

If I am scum, I am anti-spewing to avoid giving associative tells with my scumbuddies.

If I am town, statistically town has a higher rate of winning on a day 1 mislynch and there's no reason it shouldn't be me if I'm replacing out anyway.

Either way this is an absolutely solid gold hammer opportunity. My play here is totally within my scumrange, and if you look at Dolphins, I even have a history of replacing out under pressure. It all fits together rather nicely. And do you really want me alive on day 2 after generating so much wifom? I think not.

[DVa]

DVa (L-1)

: NotNova, Egix96, Lamees, bristep123,
Persivul, DVa

rb (L-5)

: Leodanny, Something_Smart

Dunnstral (L-5)

: Auro, rb

Leodanny (L-5)

: Thor665, Dunnstral

Lamees (L-6)

: Malakitty

Auro, I'm clearly scum here. Hammer me.

[DVa]

I would self-vote but I'm already doing that.

[DVa]

I will only claim if you promise to hammer me right now after the claim, otherwise I will never claim under any conditions.

See, now that's anti-town behavior right there. You should definitely hammer me.

[DVa]

I would soft bus or be non commital so I am probably scum with thor who I havent interacted with much. Also my push on notnova wasnt very good so I could be scum with him too. Since our scum team is only 3 people I guess mala has to be town.

But youve missed a chance for a claim so if you want that you really will have to wait for a replacement.

Ok bye list, sorry Dunn and Auro for not being better scum to catch/willing to deal with this list.

[DVa]

Egix, anything in particular that convinced you I was town late D4? You were beginning to reconsider, no?

It was mainly the fact that DVa hadn't given you a serious scumread prior to her replace-out. I think that was the most compelling and least Wifom-y reason that you included in your "reasons why I am town" list.

I honestly have no idea how you played this game the way you did... you're like the Darren Sanders of India

what lol

I am never right about everything d1, and especially not in a game where every other vt is replacing out from apathy