Open 741: Red Flag [Endgame]

[volxen]

What do you think about him replacing into this game and then posting to other games but not saying hello here?

Do you consider that rude, scummy, or [insert other option I can't think of here]?

-rh

Hello.

All this talk about jesters - you guys sure you're in the right game and not in Jester Nightless by Jingle, instead? lol

Also, shouldn't we be careful about who we vote? Because if scum is well coordinated, then after we vote, they could just pile on all 4 as 4 more votes.

-------

What is your offsite/overall mafia experience?
I have been an IC in the newbie queue, played a variety of games onsite (30+), and have offsite experience. Left the offsite one though because one player ruined it by being extremely unprofessional.

What is the most fun role you’ve had to date?
They're all fun in their different ways.

If you were in LyLo with the person above and below you in the playerlist (wrapping around the top and bottom), with everything being equal, who would you trust?
I don't know who GE is or who anyone else is .

What is your favorite animal?
Birds, cats, and chinchillas

-LH

What was your motivation in making this post? The part about warning people about voting. We aren't in lylo, so why would all four scum be inclined to all join the same wagon and quicklynch a townie on day one, when that would potentially bring all four of them under a lot of scrutiny on day two? Especially if the four scum were all the last four voters on the wagon and quickly voted back-to-back to bring the wagon to lynch. In lylo it would make sense for that to happen, but it doesn't make sense for the scumteam to do that on day one. It seems strange to be discouraging voting this early on in the game, especially since voting/pressuring is one way to help the game transition from "RVS" to "serious mode".

i think tw slot and keyser slot are svs

Is there anything in particular in the interactions between TW and Keyser that pinged you as SvS? You seemed to backtrack on this fairly fast:

actually nevermind that's stupid

idrc about mafia rn and it makes my reads bad.

[volxen]

You guys accused him of the Ellitell, posting somewhere else while not posting in a certain game.

However, in my vision the Ellitell works on cases where the player is

purely

not interested in posting on that game while posting on others, if he might have had other reasons that tell fells flat. Volxen had only logged in for some time back then, and although he posted in one game, Keyser already said he didn't post in another one he is in as well.

In the time span between 173 and 368, volxen was only playing in one other game in which he made multiple posts.

Ellitell has worked on volxen in the past; he’s more likely to post when he’s town.

/ofrhz

I mean, I'm not sure why you are putting so much stock in this. I only have one completed scum game on site, and it seems like you are scumreading me here because of a certain ongoing game. At times I have gaps in my posts as both alignments. And yes if I am playing multiple games, I may not post each day in each game.

[volxen]

I also think volxen is sus. I love his town games. His play here is boring so far

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=77211&user_select[]=31772

example of town volxen replacing in on a game. kindly compare it with what happened here so far

I feel like your almost BOPing me or something. And in Newbie 1889, where I was town and you were scum, you made the same argument against me. You linked to one of my previous town games, claimed I wasn't as towny as I was in the previous game, and accused me of being scum over it. Interesting that you are doing the exact same thing again here this game.

I still think Meme is suspicious because of the whole "be cautious with voting because all four scum might pile on the wagon" at the very beginning of the game. And for now, I have scumleans on Blackjack and Ceejay because both of them seem eager to scumpaint me merely based on how frequently I am posting in this game.

[volxen]

VOTE: Blackjacks

[volxen]

I think RC is likely right about BlackJacks. I've never played with Ruru, and my only experience with Orfhz is in another ongoing game, and yet both of them are convinced I'm scum because I don't have tons of posts in this game already. They even have referenced some of my previous town games, without even taking into account things such as that I do sometimes have gaps in my posts as both alignments, or that I often do better after day 1 when I have more information to work with via flips.

I don't feel like BlackJacks wants to sort my alignment, but rather it feels like both heads of the hydra just want to push a mislynch through.

[volxen]

I think RC is likely right about BlackJacks. I've never played with Ruru, and my only experience with Orfhz is in another ongoing game, and yet both of them are convinced I'm scum because I don't have tons of posts in this game already. They even have referenced some of my previous town games, without even taking into account things such as that I do sometimes have gaps in my posts as both alignments, or that I often do better after day 1 when I have more information to work with via flips.

I don't feel like BlackJacks wants to sort my alignment, but rather it feels like both heads of the hydra just want to push a mislynch through.

Hi Volxen talk with me

I feel that BJ is hard pushing you without reconsidering it that much, yes. That point I can somewhat agree.

However the post they linked here from your town game sounded very differently than your posts here.

You didn't see engaged in sorting anyone alignment aside from posting things everyone had already said and approved, nor do you right now seem to focus on anything but avoiding your lynch or saying that BJ is scum.

Do you really think it's weird to scum read you here? I don't think it would be that hard for you to actually sound townier if you had some motivation.

What I'm saying is that the conclusion "Volxen hasn't made tons of posts = Volxen is scum" is overly simplistic, and I have a hard time believing that is coming from a townie who really wants to solve the game. For instance, you are at least trying to engage with me, whereas BlackJacks has multiple posts calling for my lynch.

Either he is scum, or he has some misguided preconceived notion of what town!Volxen looks like and thinks I'm scum because I'm not living up to that expectation. Considering he has never played with town!me in any of my completed town games, him posting as if he is some sort of expert on my town meta is fairly suspect.

[volxen]

And based on that BlackJacks is my top scumread at the moment.

[volxen]

What I'm saying is that the conclusion "Volxen hasn't made tons of posts = Volxen is scum" is overly simplistic, and I have a hard time believing that is coming from a townie who really wants to solve the game. For instance, you are at least trying to engage with me, whereas BlackJacks has multiple posts calling for my lynch.

Either he is scum, or he has some misguided preconceived notion of what town!Volxen looks like and thinks I'm scum because I'm not living up to that expectation. Considering he has never played with town!me in any of my completed town games, him posting as if he is some sort of expert on my town meta is fairly suspect.

Point taken.

Still,

Do you find your posts here less townier than the usual?

Also, do you think that you would be doing something different here as scum?

@Nibbui, I'm not sure what you want me to say here. I do frequently get misread as scum as town, especially on day 1. This has happened to me in multiple of my town games, including Newbie 1888, Newbie 1889, and Newbie 1893. In the latter two games, I was a town power role and forced to roleclaim on day 1 to avoid getting mislynched. And again, BlackJacks has clearly looked at at least some of those games, but it's like he's selectively pointing out things that he thinks will help him to present a case for scum!Volxen rather than taking a more holistic approach to my meta.

[volxen]

By the way @Nibbui, RC and Ceejay have both played with town!me before, whereas Orfhz and Ruru have not. RC seems to be strong townreading me, Ceejay is either nullreading me or townleaning me, and Ofrhz/Ruru are scumreading me. Does that affect your read of me at all?

[volxen]

What I'm saying is that the conclusion "Volxen hasn't made tons of posts = Volxen is scum" is overly simplistic, and I have a hard time believing that is coming from a townie who really wants to solve the game. For instance, you are at least trying to engage with me, whereas BlackJacks has multiple posts calling for my lynch.

Either he is scum, or he has some misguided preconceived notion of what town!Volxen looks like and thinks I'm scum because I'm not living up to that expectation. Considering he has never played with town!me in any of my completed town games, him posting as if he is some sort of expert on my town meta is fairly suspect.

Point taken.

Still,

Do you find your posts here less townier than the usual?

Also, do you think that you would be doing something different here as scum?

@Nibbui, I'm not sure what you want me to say here. I do frequently get misread as scum as town, especially on day 1. This has happened to me in multiple of my town games, including Newbie 1888, Newbie 1889, and Newbie 1893. In the latter two games, I was a town power role and forced to roleclaim on day 1 to avoid getting mislynched. And again, BlackJacks has clearly looked at at least some of those games, but it's like he's selectively pointing out things that he thinks will help him to present a case for scum!Volxen rather than taking a more holistic approach to my meta.

Ok that was good info but not really the info I asked (it was still good info).

Let's hyphotetically assume you're town. What would you do different as scum here? What do you think are some notable differences between your scum and town meta?

I'm not really sure how to answer that question, as I am town here and I am approaching this game from a townie perspective. I'm not scum, so I haven't thought about what I would be doing in this game if I were scum.

Other than "try to get people mislynched to meet my win condition", what do you really want me to say here regarding what I would do differently if I were scum rather than town?

I only have one completed scum game (Watcher Wanted), which I played when I was basically brand new to the site, and I got lynched on the first day of that game. So I'm not even sure that I have a definitive "scum meta".

[volxen]

By the way @Nibbui, RC and Ceejay have both played with town!me before, whereas Orfhz and Ruru have not. RC seems to be strong townreading me, Ceejay is either nullreading me or townleaning me, and Ofrhz/Ruru are scumreading me. Does that affect your read of me at all?

It doesn't because I don't like how sly Ceejay has been sounding nor the kind of thought process RC is showing. It's not necessarily a scum read but yeah.

Also I got interested in something, do you think that Radiant hard town read on you is valid and reasonable? Or do you think that it's a early read but it's being beneficial to you right now (and it's hipothetically correct)?

Are you suggesting RC's townread on me might be TMI, i.e. he is scum and *knows* that I am town? Perhaps, but at the moment his townread of me seems genuine, because he is essentially going against the tide and defending me when it is not really the *popular* thing to be doing. Yes I have, as town, received false townreads from scum, but usually that happens when I have already established myself as strong town, and scum will townread me because it's an easy townread for them to justify. Clearly I haven't established myself as strong town in this game (at least not yet), so I don't see scum!RC's motivation in townreading me and defending me at this point in time. If I am town and RC is scum, what is his motivation in trying to get BlackJacks lynched instead of me?

RC is a townread for me at the moment.

[volxen]

I mean, it's not that much of a hard question usually to answer what you would probably be doing as scum but I get your point.

How you felt though when you rolled scum for the first time? What was your experience there and did you learn something about playing as scum?

I probably didn't get the "full experience" of playing scum in Watcher Wanted, because there was no scum day chat and I was lynched on day 1 so I never got to communicate with my scumbuddies. I learned that, at least for me, playing scum is a lot harder than playing town because instead of trying to genuinely gamesolve, you are faking/fabricating everything to try and get townies mislynched to meet your win condition. The former (gamesolving) comes naturally to me and the latter (faking/fabricating) doesn't.

[volxen]

By the way @Nibbui, RC and Ceejay have both played with town!me before, whereas Orfhz and Ruru have not. RC seems to be strong townreading me, Ceejay is either nullreading me or townleaning me, and Ofrhz/Ruru are scumreading me. Does that affect your read of me at all?

It doesn't because I don't like how sly Ceejay has been sounding nor the kind of thought process RC is showing. It's not necessarily a scum read but yeah.

Also I got interested in something, do you think that Radiant hard town read on you is valid and reasonable? Or do you think that it's a early read but it's being beneficial to you right now (and it's hipothetically correct)?

Are you suggesting RC's townread on me might be TMI, i.e. he is scum and *knows* that I am town? Perhaps, but at the moment his townread of me seems genuine, because he is essentially going against the tide and defending me when it is not really the *popular* thing to be doing. Yes I have, as town, received false townreads from scum, but usually that happens when I have already established myself as strong town, and scum will townread me because it's an easy townread for them to justify. Clearly I haven't established myself as strong town in this game (at least not yet), so I don't see scum!RC's motivation in townreading me and defending me at this point in time. If I am town and RC is scum, what is his motivation in trying to get BlackJacks lynched instead of me?

RC is a townread for me at the moment.

What is your experience with RC?

How confident you're that you can read RC intentions as scum?

I think RC has a reputation as being a hard to read player in general, so I'm not going to claim to know what his agenda would be as scum. My only firsthand experience with him was in Newbie 1888, where I was town and he was scum. So far I am inclined to believe that he is town in this game.

[volxen]

Do you believe that Blackjacks is town @Nibbui?

[volxen]

I had him as null with all the anti town shit he did, but that changed with volxen towning it up

i don't even understand ur point of ur read then

As scum, I protected a mislynchable town player in order to get a win win situation: if he's mislynched, I get some credit because my read was good; if he's not mislynched, he will still be suspected the next day and will be good MyLo/LyLo material. The reason I had for townreading the mislynchable player? "Guys, I know this guy is town, I've seen it play like this before. Trust me".

I'm not falling for my own strat.

That's a fair point about it being a valid scum strategy, but why do you think that scenario is more likely than town!RC just genuinely townreading me? Just because he townread me too early on in the game?

[volxen]

zzz

RC's case on me is more town than the keyser/volxen/springtrap votes, not that it makes him town or anything, but I pretty much expect him to want me out of the game, in any game, as either alignment, and my iso is objectively different from my town meta on my main so whatever.

Keyser can be read by postcount and he stopped postcounting here which is questionable, he's also voteparking us with a "sorting" vote while not really doing anything even though we've apparently developed into a Serious wagon
tbh nobody's really doing anything in this game us included so it's hard to get reads.

I think volxen is scum, ofrhz is starting to doubt it after his realtime posting spree but I don't know if we have any better shared reads than volxen

Springtrap is a token nullscum read but I don't know if he's too likely to be actual scum

I kinda townread clemency's utter lack of contribution

, I think isos like volxen that are trying to look like they're playing the game are much more likely to flip scum

Idc mafia right now, I'm on this account because my last game wasn't fun even though I won and efforting is too stressful so if we're going to get lynched for not efforting just lynch us so we flip and we'll go play another game where people can meta us better assuming ofrhz doesn't disown me for trolling all game

Why do you townread Clemency's "utter lack of contribution"?

[volxen]

Sorry I had to replace out, got very busy due to IRL/work. Looks like you all had a good game though -- thanks for replacing into my slot Mastina! And by the way thanks for all of your awesome articles on the MafiaScum wiki -- they really helped me out a lot when I first joined this site a few months ago.

And @RC, why do you always roll scum against me man? You are now 2/2 for rolling scum against me in our games together. I want to play with town!RC next time (unless we both role scum together, which would be fun)!

Also @Orfhz, hopefully this game has proven that you have to be careful about trying to apply the Ellitell to me.