Open 744 - Lovers and Losers [endgame]


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Open 744 - Lovers and Losers [endgame]

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:14 am

Post by yessiree »

Playerlist
  • Mcqueen
  • Clemency
  • Michael Scott (Auro + volxen)
  • Dongempire
  • muh316
  • Bambi Jay
  • 0verki11
  • Egix96
  • LolWagons
* denotes a prod

Spoiler: Alive

Spoiler: Dead
Last edited by yessiree on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #1 (isolation #1) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:29 am

Post by yessiree »

Rules


General
  1. All site-wide rules are applied in full
  2. #800080 is the moderator's color, please do not use it
  3. All players are expected to play to their win conditions
  4. Be respectful to others, and have common sense
  5. No invisible, cryptographic, or deliberate obfuscation of text
  6. No talking after death
  7. No editing or deleting your posts
  8. No discussion of ongoing games
  9. No outside communications unless stated otherwise
  10. No direct quoting of private communications with moderators or role PMs, however, paraphrasing is allowed
  11. Player may direct posts at me in thread, or private message me if assistance is required
  12. Moderators reserve the right to make final decisions in individual incidences, and adjustments to the rules. Players will be notified in either case
Voting
  1. Please use the vote tag VOTE: yessiree
  2. Full names and abbreviated versions are acceptable as long as they are easily recognizable
  3. Moderators reserve the final judgement towards ambiguous votes
  4. Vote counts may change retroactively if moderators miscount or miss valid votes
  5. UNVOTE: is not required before voting again
  6. Majority lynch is in effect during the day
  7. You may not vote No Lynch
  8. At deadline, plurality lynch takes effect if a lynch did not occur. Player who received the most votes first will be the lynch
Activity
  1. Prods are issued after 48 hours of inactivity. Following a prod, players have 24 hours to respond or be replaced
  2. Players are automatically replaced upon receiving the 3rd prod
  3. Day phase lasts 10 days; night 2 days. Extensions may be given under certain circumstances
  4. Players with actions may choose to send their actions via PM to the mod, or in quick topics if applicable
  5. Players may choose to send actions in advance. The final action received before the deadline will be chosen
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Post Post #2 (isolation #2) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:38 am

Post by yessiree »

Mechanics


Disclaimer: this is an experimental setup by BBmolla from the Open Setup Autopsy thread.

Lovers and Losers

9 Players:

3 Mafia Lovers

4 Town Lovers (2 pairs)
2 VTs

  • Daystart
  • Nightless
  • Only one VT may get lynched and only one pair of Town Lovers may get lynched.
  • If a lynch targets a role that has already been lynched, the game ends in a mafia victory.


Sample PMs
Spoiler: VT
You are a
vanilla townie
.

You have no special powers other than your voice and your vote.
You win if any
mafia lover
is lynched before either two
vanilla townies
, or two pairs of
town lovers
.


Spoiler: Town Lovers
You are members of the
town
, and
lovers
with each other. If anyone of you die, the other dies as well. The two of you may talk prior to the beginning of Day 1
You win if any
mafia lover
is lynched before either two
vanilla townies
, or two pairs of
town lovers
.


Spoiler: Mafia Lovers
You are members of the
mafia
, and lovers with each other. If one of you is lynched, all of you will die. The three of you may talk at any time
You win if either two
vanilla townies
, or two pairs of
town lovers
are lynched before any of you are
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Post Post #3 (isolation #3) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:40 am

Post by yessiree »

Role PMs are out.

The game will begin in (expired on 2018-12-23 09:00:00)
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Post Post #32 (isolation #4) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:02 pm

Post by yessiree »

Everyone has confirmed. Day 1 starts. Deadline in 10 days.

I only have access to a phone so vc will be limited
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Post Post #82 (isolation #5) » Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:10 am

Post by yessiree »

This is a vc
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Post Post #293 (isolation #6) » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:55 pm

Post by yessiree »

Michael Scott - bambi jay, clemency, muh316, egix96
Dongempire - lolwagons
Clemency - dongempire

Not voting - Michael Scott, mcqueen, overkill

With 9 players, it takes 5 votes to lynch
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Post Post #315 (isolation #7) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:23 am

Post by yessiree »

Egix96 has requested replacement and may no longer post.
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Post Post #316 (isolation #8) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:28 am

Post by yessiree »

Ruby Red replaces Egix96
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Post Post #497 (isolation #9) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:52 pm

Post by yessiree »

By my mental count. Dongempire is lynched.

Dongempire - Lolwagons, 0verk1ll, Michael Scott, clemency, bambi jay

Dongempire was a VT
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Post Post #499 (isolation #10) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:53 pm

Post by yessiree »

Day 2 begins. Deadline in 10 days.

With 8 alive it takes 5 votes to lynch
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Post Post #540 (isolation #11) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:27 pm

Post by yessiree »

0verk1ll is lynched. He was a VT.

Mafia lovers, lolwagons, bambi jay, and ruby red survived and won.
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Post Post #546 (isolation #12) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:35 pm

Post by yessiree »

Mod PT: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=78155
Town lovers and mafia can release their pts if they want
There is no dead pt
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Post Post #568 (isolation #13) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:33 pm

Post by yessiree »

GGs to all. Mafia played well and stayed coordinated. I thought town lacked a protown voice, which would have really helped.

This was an experimental run to see if a 3 member mafia lovers setup can be ran as a micro open. Evidently it can’t. The search for longevity in lovers setup continues... or perhaps the genre fits more natually in blitz

Anyway, thanks for playing everyone. This game couldn’t have had worse timing for me. A series of events led to me starting the game while my flight was literally on the runway about to take off. Ive been modding this game on my phone ever since (glad thats over and done with)
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Post Post #577 (isolation #14) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:58 pm

Post by yessiree »

In post 570, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 568, yessiree wrote:I thought town lacked a protown voice, which would have really helped.
But... Me :(
I thought you deffo tried to be the town leader, but failed to get town to listen to you. 5/5 plan, 1/5 execution. Also a bit of bad luck with an inactive lover (in keeping with Michael’s character)
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Post Post #584 (isolation #15) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:20 pm

Post by yessiree »

In post 578, Michael Scott wrote:How would I get Clemency to listen to me though? He was extremely tunneled throughout and I can't think of anything I could say to make him listen.

Impossible situation
Townhunting, getting correctly townread, and getting your townreads to work with you really come with experience
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Post Post #587 (isolation #16) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:26 pm

Post by yessiree »

you could have worked around him and tried to win his lovers, town had 6 votes for the first lynch
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Post Post #589 (isolation #17) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:28 pm

Post by yessiree »

But yeah after the first vt lynch town had virtually no way of coming back

Pedit: :P
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Post Post #590 (isolation #18) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:33 pm

Post by yessiree »

The first lynch was supposed to give town grounds for the second, but it didn’t really work well in this case. There wasnt much progress to be made in the 2 remaining vt claims. There SHOULD have been.
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Post Post #612 (isolation #19) » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:44 pm

Post by yessiree »

In a 5:3 you’d still need 5 votes to lynch someone meaning all towns need to vote together as well. So it’s still the same whether you lynch from VTs or lovers
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Post Post #620 (isolation #20) » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:14 pm

Post by yessiree »

In post 613, volxen wrote:
In post 612, yessiree wrote:In a 5:3 you’d still need 5 votes to lynch someone meaning all towns need to vote together as well. So it’s still the same whether you lynch from VTs or lovers
In a 5:3 you need five votes to pull off a "proper" lynch with a hammer, yes. But what I was getting at is that with a 5:3 split, you could run into the situation where 4/5 of the townies have correctly identified scum, and 1/5 of the townies is going to be voting WITH scum (because they don't have good reads). So the game then becomes a 4 vs 4 race -- the four townies need to get scum up to four votes before the three scum and the other townie get a townie up to four votes. For example, if day 2 ends with these two wagons in a 5:3:

Scum A (4) - Townie A, Townie B, Townie C, Townie D
Townie A (4) - Scum A, Scum B, Scum C, Townie E

As long as Scum A got up four votes first, scum still gets lynched on day 2 even with one of the townies voting for another townie because of the plurality lynching rule. The four townies simply get scum up to four votes first, and wait out the deadline. But if the ratio is 4:3 on day 2 rather than 5:3, one townie voting for another townie will outright cost town the game (because the three scum will vote for that townie as well and achieve a proper lynch with a hammer).

You still have to win the race to get four votes on scum first, so it's not the ideal strategy unless it's absolutely necessary. Obviously, if you can get all of the townies to vote for scum and achieve a proper lynch with a hammer, that is optimal as opposed to waiting out the deadline for a plurality lynch. But nonetheless, 5:3 gives town that buffer that allows them to still win even with one townie voting for another townie at EOD on day 2. This buffer can never be achieved in a 4:3 though, and that's why having that 5:3 ratio instead of a 4:3 ratio on day 2 is a significant benefit to town that can potentially impact the outcome of the game.

Aside from all of that, a secondary benefit of 5:3 is just the fact that you have that extra townie around on day 2 to help gamesolve, discuss reads with, etc.
The scenario you described with racing to 4 votes is certainly possible, but
unlikely


think about it, assuming massclaimed has happened so you have 3 claimed pairs and 3 vts, and you all chose to lynch from the vts. We know for a fact there is one goon in the vts and two goons in the lover pairs.

one VT is lynched.
Now there are 2 VTs and one goon in this pool. So naturally the VT claims will cross vote, that'd be 1:1
Now, the remaining 6 votes are held by 3 pairs of lovers. If we assume the lovers vote together in the same place, you'd never end up with 4 votes on someone, you'd always end up with 3:5 or 5:3. You would most likely end up in the scenario where votes are 3:3 split, and the deciding factor is a town lover pair
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Post Post #622 (isolation #21) » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:27 pm

Post by yessiree »

lovers voting differently in lylo. yeah it can happen, but it's also bad play. But perhaps the setup is flowed to allow it to happen? Perhaps they should be allowed private chat at all times to avoid situations like this? but would that be too much in town's favor?
it's reasonable to assume town lovers's strength is somewhere between neighbours and masons. but this is a nightless setup so it's tricky

Also I really can't imagine the game day getting dragged on to the deadline with the votes staying stagnant (4:4) throughout...
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Post Post #625 (isolation #22) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:10 pm

Post by yessiree »

yes the setup is theoretically townsided, EV should be 2/3 if following optimal strategy of lynching from VT claims (day one has 1/3 odds of hitting scum, and then day two 50/50 of hitting scum)

despite that though, I think this setup is susceptible to TvTs, and with any decent scum play, it would easily snowball into a town loss, which is kinda what happened here
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Post Post #638 (isolation #23) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:17 pm

Post by yessiree »

Don't you think it's too early to be making changes to the setup.
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