Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

[Cerberus v666]

Dva, you're bad, and you should feel bad.

I'll say more later, but I wanted you to know that.

[Cerberus v666]

FL: You're also bad, you should have never voted there, and it took epic game throwing on Dva's part for that singular mistake to not cost you the game. Unless you just know Dva is terrible at mafia/impatient and incompetent in LYLO in particular.

[Cerberus v666]

Amzela: I love you dearly and I don't think anything you could have done would have changed the end of this game(even if you had been more obvtown, the fact that DrewVa just blindly voted for a person who they said they had had a town read on throughout the game isn't something your past play could have prevented) other than being more available than you were in the first half of this day phase; once you announce you're able to play, you need to be checking for posts to respond to them, at least like once an hour; you can't just disappear for hours on end without letting people know or else shit like this happens because people are bad at mafia.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb there are classier ways to go about this.

You are correct.

I considered them.

I discarded them.

<3

[Cerberus v666]

Sorry guys, FL had us convinced he was dumb town.

You're still terrible and should feel terrible.

You don't finish a lylo in under 24 hours.

How fucking incompetent do you have to be to just rush the lynch that decides the result of the effort EVERYONE ELSE has put in as well? It's disrespectful at best.

[Cerberus v666]

FL: You're also bad, you should have never voted there, and it took epic game throwing on Dva's part for that singular mistake to not cost you the game. Unless you just know Dva is terrible at mafia/impatient and incompetent in LYLO in particular.

I was baiting it.

Once you see the mafia private thread, like...I had literally every single facet of this game planned out for a bit and went through every single option before coming into the game expecting a DrewVa/Amzela/FL triangle.

Doesn't actually answer my question.

Did you just know that Dva/Nancy are bad at mafia and prone to throwing in LYLO without thinking things through?

If so, good job.

If not, you also fucked up.

[Cerberus v666]

Dva, you're bad, and you should feel bad.

I'll say more later, but I wanted you to know that.

Thanks, I really needed some cheering up.

This is Nancy, I haven’t spoken to DVa since Thursday.

AND THIS MAKES YOU EVEN FUCKING WORSE.

HOLY SHIT

HOW FUCKING BAD OF A HYDRA PARTNER CAN YOU BE WHO JUST VOTES FOR THE SHARED SLOT IN THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE GAME WITHOUT REGARD FOR THE WISHES OF THEIR OTHER HALF?

*sigh*

I was really hoping it was dva making all those posts(since they're the one who startred the day), and it wasn't Nancy incompetently showing up and just blindly fucking voting.

You somehow managed to make this already pitiful display of LYLO play even worse.

Well done.

[Cerberus v666]

Sorry guys, FL had us convinced he was dumb town.

You're still terrible and should feel terrible.

You don't finish a lylo in under 24 hours.

How fucking incompetent do you have to be to just rush the lynch that decides the result of the effort EVERYONE ELSE has put in as well? It's disrespectful at best.

Shut up please, thanks.

You played dreadfully. You got freaking vigged! You are absolutely the LAST player in the game, to throw stones here.

I'm very aware of how bad our play was, though for the record we were 1) aiming to get shot at all game, and 2) were shot at 4 times, which seems to indicate success in our goal, though we should have accomplished more along the way.

That doesn't actually make your play competent though. It's still undeniably HORRID play to EVER finish a LYLO in less than 24 hours, and without giving all parties the opportunity to interact.

[Cerberus v666]

Alright, now that I'm done telling you how bad you are, if you still want to talk to me and ask for constructive criticism, I can tell you all the reasons why in this game in particular there was a shitload more to discuss than you bothered spending time on. ^^

pedit: ALSO RIGHT PEOPLE SOMEONE CLAIMING A SINGLE SHOT COP CAN BE FUCKING BUSSING HOLY FUCKING SHIT HOW DID NOBODY EVEN CONSIDER THAT???

ppedit: honestly, though, Varsoon, I don't think dva/nancy actually get it, since whichever one responded to me last chose to attack my play rather than defending theirs, indicating to me that they don't actually understand what they did wrong.

[Cerberus v666]

Dva, you're bad, and you should feel bad.

I'll say more later, but I wanted you to know that.

Thanks, I really needed some cheering up.

This is Nancy, I haven’t spoken to DVa since Thursday.

AND THIS MAKES YOU EVEN FUCKING WORSE.

HOLY SHIT

HOW FUCKING BAD OF A HYDRA PARTNER CAN YOU BE WHO JUST VOTES FOR THE SHARED SLOT IN THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE GAME WITHOUT REGARD FOR THE WISHES OF THEIR OTHER HALF?

*sigh*

I was really hoping it was dva making all those posts(since they're the one who startred the day), and it wasn't Nancy incompetently showing up and just blindly fucking voting.

You somehow managed to make this already pitiful display of LYLO play even worse.

Well done.

It’s not too late for me to fucking report YOU for being the worst hypocrite in the history of Mafia. I have 100% lost complete respect for you.

Wtf did YOU do in this game huh?

Tried to mislynch town!Hebi, pushed Toog to get modkilled and there was another slot you wrongly helped get mislynched but I can’t recall it atm but if anyone has a right to be pissed, it’s Thor. You cost him the game by making him wrongly vig you.

I sincerely hope he tears you a new one for that.

Drixx was obvtown but you OTOH, was scummy as fuck, the entire game.

You're welcome to report me, I'm calling your play out as terrible, and that's all. Zero line crossing occurring here, and trust me, I'm well aware of those lines, and also aware of my bad play. Ask Amzela, she knows I feel like I had a terrible game. *shrug*

@Varsoon: See? Zero ability to acknowledge their failings.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb: When people feel personally attacked, it makes it hard for them to differentiate between criticism and hate.
Trust me, I've literally been on both sides of this situation way more times in this last month than I am comfortable to admit and bans have been issued over how out of hand it's gotten.
Just chill it.
Be cool.
That goes for you, too, Nancy. It'll be alright. Cerb's frustrated with the loss. It's natural that the first thing he'd criticize is the last critical mistake town made.

I'm actually not frustrated at the loss.

Mafia's a stupid game and losses don't really matter to me. Wins are fun, and doing cool things is fun, but losses happen. *shrug*

It's the combination of their unwillingness to recognize that they made a very very poor play, and the fact that people are even capable of making plays that terrible, that's frustrating. As you said, learn from the mistake and grow....which isn't possible when people don't recognize that they made a mistake.

pedit: @Nancy: I am not going to be apologizing to you for anything I'm saying here because it's all accurate. Go read the dead thread. I'm not the only person who felt that your approach to the end game was terrible, and though having others agree with me doesn't make me right, it does mean that there's more going on here than just me "scapegoating" you. You should really take a step back and consider whether or not a rational outside observer would believe that you took a reasonable path in determining the right action to take during this day phase.

[Cerberus v666]

3-4 town dying every night is like near impossible to play though

Eh, the game was probably pretty scum-sided overall, as multiball tends to be, but not egregiously so.

[Cerberus v666]

Dva, you're bad, and you should feel bad.

I'll say more later, but I wanted you to know that.

Thanks, I really needed some cheering up.

This is Nancy, I haven’t spoken to DVa since Thursday.

AND THIS MAKES YOU EVEN FUCKING WORSE.

HOLY SHIT

HOW FUCKING BAD OF A HYDRA PARTNER CAN YOU BE WHO JUST VOTES FOR THE SHARED SLOT IN THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE GAME WITHOUT REGARD FOR THE WISHES OF THEIR OTHER HALF?

*sigh*

I was really hoping it was dva making all those posts(since they're the one who startred the day), and it wasn't Nancy incompetently showing up and just blindly fucking voting.

You somehow managed to make this already pitiful display of LYLO play even worse.

Well done.

It’s not too late for me to fucking report YOU for being the worst hypocrite in the history of Mafia. I have 100% lost complete respect for you.

Wtf did YOU do in this game huh?

Tried to mislynch town!Hebi, pushed Toog to get modkilled and there was another slot you wrongly helped get mislynched but I can’t recall it atm but if anyone has a right to be pissed, it’s Thor. You cost him the game by making him wrongly vig you.

I sincerely hope he tears you a new one for that.

Drixx was obvtown but you OTOH, was scummy as fuck, the entire game.

You're welcome to report me, I'm calling your play out as terrible, and that's all. Zero line crossing occurring here, and trust me, I'm well aware of those lines, and also aware of my bad play. Ask Amzela, she knows I feel like I had a terrible game. *shrug*

@Varsoon: See? Zero ability to acknowledge their failings.

Please stop embarrassing yourself here. Why are you persisting in making these ridiculous pathetic posts?, I’m legit starting to feel sorry for you.

I'm not sure what the objective of this post was, and therefore I don't know how to respond to it. Are you attempting to make me feel like I should care if you feel sorry for me, or attempting to make me feel embarassed, or....? I really don't know what the point of these words was.

pedit: I don't have any reason, based on their play or statements made here, to think they actually care about or respect their team, other than as something they can use to justify their own failings.

I think someone should like, answer Amzela's question, since she's the only person who has posted so far who actually wants something constructive to be discussed, and I already gave her my answer!

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb: When people feel personally attacked, it makes it hard for them to differentiate between criticism and hate.
Trust me, I've literally been on both sides of this situation way more times in this last month than I am comfortable to admit and bans have been issued over how out of hand it's gotten.
Just chill it.
Be cool.
That goes for you, too, Nancy. It'll be alright. Cerb's frustrated with the loss. It's natural that the first thing he'd criticize is the last critical mistake town made.

I'm actually not frustrated at the loss.

Mafia's a stupid game and losses don't really matter to me. Wins are fun, and doing cool things is fun, but losses happen. *shrug*

It's the combination of their unwillingness to recognize that they made a very very poor play, and the fact that people are even capable of making plays that terrible, that's frustrating. As you said, learn from the mistake and grow....which isn't possible when people don't recognize that they made a mistake.

pedit: @Nancy: I am not going to be apologizing to you for anything I'm saying here because it's all accurate. Go read the dead thread. I'm not the only person who felt that your approach to the end game was terrible, and though having others agree with me doesn't make me right, it does mean that there's more going on here than just me "scapegoating" you. You should really take a step back and consider whether or not a rational outside observer would believe that you took a reasonable path in determining the right action to take during this day phase.

I’m not surprised. I absolutely would in your position but then I’m not being a hypocrite who is behaving as if they misplaced their moral compass. I am sincerely disappointed in you. I way overestimated the kind of person I thought you were. :/

Nancy: There is nothing wrong, or worthy of apologizing for, in me stating that you made an atrocious play, and that as a result you should reassess the way you approach LYLO. There's absolutely no difference in meaning between my prior sentence, and what I actually said, correct? That means you're asking me for an apology for the specific words I used, and I won't apologize for that because those words were honest expressions of my thoughts, using the verbiage that I felt best communicated my meaning to the person I was communicating with(you).

[Cerberus v666]

Flavor, c'mon, you can tone down the bluffin'

Seconded.

Winning because someone else is bad is not the same as winning because you outplayed a worthy opponent.

DrewVa *had* every opportunity to slow play the day, you didn't MAKE them do anything

*shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

Again, as I said in the dead thread:

I would have been very happy about everyone's play if discussion had happened, FL had outtalked people, and just won the game.

That's cool, that's a good ending, no matter who wins.

People who care so little about playing out the endgame and thinking that they're okay with their hydra partner just voting someone without discussion doing just that?

That is not a good ending to a game, no matter who wins.

[Cerberus v666]

Flavor, c'mon, you can tone down the bluffin'

Seconded.

Winning because someone else is bad is not the same as winning because you outplayed a worthy opponent.

DrewVa *had* every opportunity to slow play the day, you didn't MAKE them do anything

*shrug*

Had Amzela came back, I would have lynched DrewVa.

Don’t see your point. I don’t get lynched. :shrug:

FL, amzela doesn't vote there if she isn't already lynched.

Like, Drewva hammered, i pm'd her on discord saying yep, you're dead love, you lost, and she came and voted for drewva 10 seconds later.

[Cerberus v666]

Tbf last time I lost the game for my team at Lylo I did the opposite and over thought it. If I had voted early with my gut I would've been right so it's easy to get confirmation biased about the best approach in Lylo.

I don't see how waiting would've changed the outcome and mafia is a team game so even if it comes down to Lylo everyone contributed on the path there.

I will say I did apologise for my loss for all the good that did lol.

Pedit Morality is scum doubt = zero

Thanks. <3

See, FL’s claim made sense because how did he know before Profil’s guilty that Gamma was a goon and even more convincing, was him correctly identifying Tails as “not vanilla”. I don’t really think I had a chance in hell against an experirnced acting coach. Most players wouldn’t have been able to fool me with the flawless way, he handled all of the questions about his claim. Most players wouldn’t have been able to have done that without slipping even a little.

That's because his claim was true? Every part of it except the part where he bussed his partner.

Like.

Yeah.

Again, zero consideration of bussing is...disappointing, to say the least.

pedit: Yeah, that was all obvious, but I don't blame peopel for missing that. It's not giving themselves the chance to catch it that's the problem. Anyways. DrewVa, if either of you want to have a constructive conversationa bout why I feel the way I do about your play, rather than assuming that I'm either frustrated at the loss itself or about my own play, I'm open to it. As I said, there are *several* points that should have been discussed before any votes were put down by anyone.

[Cerberus v666]

I once won as scum by getting Mathdino to vote/gladiate eddie cane while he was at a party IRL I respect Mathdino but I had worked out a way to get obv town eddie quickvoted. I had to push him to vote before eddie got back, there's noway I think less of Math it's just that all the dynamics in the game lead to that point. Eddie did what cerb is doing now and acknowledged everyone for my win except me.

As I said CheekyTeeky, if FL just, ya know, tells me that they knew DrewVa would play the way they did, kudos to them, well done.

Still doesn't make DrewVa's play good, but makes their success more impressive.

@FL: *shrug* you can't say that with certainty. 24/48 hours of back and forth with amzela and drewva actually talking to one another, instead of just talking to you(again, mistake, you only talked to one individual before making your decision), and the game could have went any way. I get that you feel like you could have won no matter what, but unless you know how drewva will act(both heads) in all circumstances, there's no way to be sure you'll win because Amzela is a complete unknown to you.

[Cerberus v666]

It was pretty obvious, from dead thread, that FL posted a ton to flood out Amz on daystart and position to vote/hammer either player.
The second he saw some doubt from DrewVa, he pounced in a way that DrewVa would have an easy time following.
That much was intentional. Yes, it was easy for US to see through, but maybe not so much for them.
/shrugs.
I'm fine with how the game shook out, though I wish everyone, myself included, had dropped better game.

I still don’t know how he knew Tails was “not vanilla”.

FL fooled everyone. Cerb is ignoring his obvious bias wrt to Amzela. How many people, other than Cerb would have voted FL over Amzela in this scenario?

So yeah, of course I feel bad about losing but no, I don’t feel at all bad about my play. In the future, I will probably not make this mistake but no, while I obviously feel bad,

I honestly don’t blame myself at all, unde the circumstances

.

That's the problem.

You made a bad play, you should probably blame yourself for making the bad play.

And again...I've been joking about how this was the most liekly outcome and that Amzela was being kept alive to be the mislynch in the end game, so it's not like it's surprising. It's simply the fact that you were impatient enough to just end the game that you didn't actually bother trying to sort the person you lynched/give them any chance to play.

I get this annoyed at quicklynches without giving the person being lynched the chance to defend themselves during non-LYLO situations, becuase it's shit play then too. The poor play is magnified infinitely when it happens in LYLO.

[Cerberus v666]

I once won as scum by getting Mathdino to vote/gladiate eddie cane while he was at a party IRL I respect Mathdino but I had worked out a way to get obv town eddie quickvoted. I had to push him to vote before eddie got back, there's noway I think less of Math it's just that all the dynamics in the game lead to that point. Eddie did what cerb is doing now and acknowledged everyone for my win except me.

As I said CheekyTeeky, if FL just, ya know, tells me that they knew DrewVa would play the way they did, kudos to them, well done.

Still doesn't make DrewVa's play good, but makes their success more impressive.

@FL: *shrug* you can't say that with certainty. 24/48 hours of back and forth with amzela and drewva actually talking to one another, instead of just talking to you(again, mistake, you only talked to one individual before making your decision), and the game could have went any way. I get that you feel like you could have won no matter what, but unless you know how drewva will act(both heads) in all circumstances, there's no way to be sure you'll win because Amzela is a complete unknown to you.

I already said I knew exactly how DrewVa would’ve reacted. That’s why I voted first. I knew a hammer was coming.

I generally know how most people will react towards me doing certain things, especially near the end game.

That’s kind of a thing I do in real life situations as well. It creates some awkward moments when i can just deep hyper analyze people subconsciously, so i feel like I know people much better than they know me.

See DrewVa, even FL knew how bad you were in advance of you showing us all how bad you were.

GJ FL. ^^

Alright. Seriously. I'm done now DrewVa. Serious offer, if you want to admit you screwed up and understand that it was a mistake, we can talk about this seriously, otherwise I'll just have to talk to other people about the game!

[Cerberus v666]

So, balance wise:

Again, I think it's slightly scumsided. Giving a SK knowledge of an entire scum faction with limited protections, while giving the other SK only unlimited BP, is definitely not fair for the unlimited BP SK.

Toogs universal protective should not have existed. A50 saw what that did in the first game, and it doesn't make sense to do it again this game. Bad design decision imo.

Nerfing the mafia by giving them the usurper and making them a 3 man team who thought they were a 4 man team(yet letting the 4th man still get them a win) is also poor balance between the groupscum factions.

Not sure why we got shot at 4x, I don't think that makes any sense, but *shrug*.

[Cerberus v666]

There's probably more thoughts I could come up with, but meh atm.

[Cerberus v666]

I once won as scum by getting Mathdino to vote/gladiate eddie cane while he was at a party IRL I respect Mathdino but I had worked out a way to get obv town eddie quickvoted. I had to push him to vote before eddie got back, there's noway I think less of Math it's just that all the dynamics in the game lead to that point. Eddie did what cerb is doing now and acknowledged everyone for my win except me.

As I said CheekyTeeky, if FL just, ya know, tells me that they knew DrewVa would play the way they did, kudos to them, well done.

Still doesn't make DrewVa's play good, but makes their success more impressive.

@FL: *shrug* you can't say that with certainty. 24/48 hours of back and forth with amzela and drewva actually talking to one another, instead of just talking to you(again, mistake, you only talked to one individual before making your decision), and the game could have went any way. I get that you feel like you could have won no matter what, but unless you know how drewva will act(both heads) in all circumstances, there's no way to be sure you'll win because Amzela is a complete unknown to you.

How does someone who played so abominably bad, that he single-handedly managed to get his slot vigged, ever have the arrogance and unbelievable hypocrisy to judge me here?

Where is your well-deserved apology to Thor, huh? You cost him HIS game. Don’t you feel at all bad about that? All he needed to do to win, was to correctly shoot scum but thanks to your uberscummy play throughout the entire game, he lost his game by shooting you. That is 100% on YOUR head, not his. I wouldn’t have mistakenly shot you because Drixx was obvtown but you counteracted that by playing like obvscum.

Okay, let's correct another one of your misconceptions(I was hoping someone else would do this, but whatever)

Here's thor's role

You are probably gonna hate me for this, but you are "Ray Quick" (from: The Specialist 1994). Lured by the irresistible temptation of Sharon Stone at her prime (she was only 36 then and just 2 years after she made Basic Instinct), you could not resist but to indulge her by bombing the mafia that had killed her family.

You are a Self-Aligned Bomber, and your task is really simple. Suicide unto someone during the daytime of your choice. If your target flips Town you will lose and if they flip anti-town you will win. You lose if you die before you detonate though, so keep an open eye for scum tells and don't take too long.

"You like watching them die? You like taking them down? Now I'm taking you down. You're finished in the agency. You're going no higher. You're as dead as those people in the river. We both are."

Simple. Huh? Now PM me back with your role so I know you understand it and are up for the task.

P.S. Just in case you need a fake claim at any point; you may claim the same character. But say your role is PGO. This should keep most everybody away from you at night, unless you really have good reads (or you suck that nobody's buying your claim).

Here's the important part of thor's role

Suicide unto someone during the daytime of your choice.

Thor didn't suicide onto us. They got shot. We drew 2 scum shots to our slot. We also drew 2 vig shots to our slot, one of which didn't happen because of the max kills per phase rule, and the other was us getting protected by toogs universal doctor.

Point being, stop talking about Thor homie. We had nothing to do with that.

[Cerberus v666]

@Nancy: Honestly, I have NO IDEA why scum would shoot us, we were playing terribly. We weren't scumsiding, we were just town who was wrong; perhaps there was fear that with flips and us reevaluating the game state since we had been proven wrong(since, ya know, we're players who actually do that), we'd end up actually being useful.

There's also the fact that profii claimed to have an Inno on us. Yeah. That's probably why.

I know Thor didn't shoot us because HE COULD ONLY ACT DURING THE DAY, and we died at night.

...

[Cerberus v666]

Oh right.

Profii, you did good.

[Cerberus v666]

@Nancy: Honestly, I have NO IDEA why scum would shoot us, we were playing terribly. We weren't scumsiding, we were just town who was wrong; perhaps there was fear that with flips and us reevaluating the game state since we had been proven wrong(since, ya know, we're players who actually do that), we'd end up actually being useful.

There's also the fact that profii claimed to have an Inno on us. Yeah. That's probably why.

I know Thor didn't shoot us because HE COULD ONLY ACT DURING THE DAY, and we died at night.

...

But I’m a terrible player for not being God? Riiiiiight.

You're a terrible player for ending the day in LYLO within 8 hours of day start, when one of the players had barely played all game and was thus not someone who you could reasonably have developed a read on, and the other player had claimed to gain a 1 shot cop ability when the game already had a cop, fbi agent, and vanilla cop.

There was no benefit to ending the game quickly, it was a bad play, and that's basically it. Hell, if you had rushed to lynch FL, I would be calling you and Amzela out on being terrible for not spending more time discussing the game.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean.

You're welcome to feel that way, but it doesn't make it true.

I'd probably be more inclined to actually care about your opinion on these things if you responded with an expression of the benefits of y our action, or if you admitted that you were wrong about how thor's role worked.

@FL: idk man, keeping people from quicklynching(and not getting lynched) are kinda my thing. *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb seems like he really wants to make peace

Today I was out, nice day for a walk, visiting my fam. Went to the grocery store and saw there were some delicious salted macadamia nuts on sale. I picked some up; seemed like a nice treat for a cool night.

This is the holiday season, and you know, it's a time where we're meant to reflect on the spirit of giving.

What I'm trying to say here Cerb is that you're welcome to lick my salty nuts

I'm pretty sure this is closer to unacceptable than anything I've actually said so far, but it's okay because it made me chuckle.

Also, I hate nuts, other than peanuts. :-/

Also also, I do really want to make peace, I just, ya know, require the assurance that you guys are capable of learning from your mistakes, rather than deflecting conversation from your mistakes onto someone else, which isn't really something I'm seeing here.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean.

You're welcome to feel that way, but it doesn't make it true.

I'd probably be more inclined to actually care about your opinion on these things if you responded with an expression of the benefits of y our action, or if you admitted that you were wrong about how thor's role worked.

@FL: idk man, keeping people from quicklynching(and not getting lynched) are kinda my thing. *shrug*

Well, one day we shall 1v1 and we will see. I’m good at rallying people.

Eh, probably not. I mean, you're welcome to follow me around but I really don't play very much. I only played these overkill games because A50 specifically asked me to.

I'll probably play Varsoons next game because I love Varsoon, even if I hate the bait and switch of his last game and will never forgive him for that.

Besides that, I probably won't be playing anything.

[Cerberus v666]

And nah, Cerb’s just talking that way.

Had he been in the game at the time, I’d have gotten the quick lynch still.

That’s my bread and butter. Getting people to quick lynch as scum or town.

It doesn’t make his

completely accurate

comments any less disgusting.

You know, when I fooled him as scum in Heroes, he was really chill about it. I actually had mad respect for him for that. Welp, never making THAT mistake again.

FTFY.

[Cerberus v666]

(fyi, now I'm just kind of poking you for the fun of it, I've accepted that you're not capable of reflecting on your mistakes and learning from them)

[Cerberus v666]

Nominating

Flavor Leaf

for

Best Performance Third Party (Hannibal Lecter)

for his play in

Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

Just saying

If I see a PT where FL calls out DrewVa's response to this situation, I'll second it. Otherwise I have to assume it was the mistake it appeared to be. *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

(Does anyone else wondering how DrewVa managed to conclude that I,a fter admitting that I played terribly this game, am the one who can't self-reflect in this conversation? Or willing to bring up the (again, completely accurate) things I've questioned them on which they've deflected by attacking me? FL? Can you ask them these things please? Or anybody I guess?)

[Cerberus v666]

Nominating

Flavor Leaf

for

Best Performance Third Party (Hannibal Lecter)

for his play in

Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

Just saying

If I see a PT where FL calls out DrewVa's response to this situation, I'll second it. Otherwise I have to assume it was the mistake it appeared to be. *shrug*

God, how much of a poor sport can you be? You’re just so freaking dense and bitter, that you need to make this about me.

Wrt OUR play, we ran circles around you this game and if you ever remove your head from your ass, maybe, you’ll actually see that.

DrewVa, again: Look at the way FL started the day phase. Does voting Amzela actually make sense coming from town, given the way they had approached the day start? Making that vote is a mistake all the time, unless you know that the person you're talking to is just going to go for it without thinking, which they claim they did. Unless I see that they ACTUALLY did call that in advance, as they're claiming they did, then it was a mistake.

You're being results oriented in your analysis. What's important isn't how it worked this time, but the process that led to that decision, and whether or not that decision was the right one.

[Cerberus v666]

Explaining why you did what you did is JUSTIFYING the mistake. That's very different from saying "Yes, I screwed up, I should have considered x y z and played this differently."

Instead you're saying "tbh, I don't blame myself for doing it, anyone else would have done the same."

Huge difference.

You're right though, I did conclude that there was little to be gained from interacting with you on this subject, so I should probably stop, but I justkeep holding onto the hope that you'll suddenly see the light.

[Cerberus v666]

(Does anyone else wondering how DrewVa managed to conclude that I,a fter admitting that I played terribly this game, am the one who can't self-reflect in this conversation? Or willing to bring up the (again, completely accurate) things I've questioned them on which they've deflected by attacking me? FL? Can you ask them these things please? Or anybody I guess?)

Give it up already. You ain’t winning this. Just hold on to your remaining self-respect. What is still left of it.

You know why I did what I did, because I’ve already fucking explained so clearly that a dead horse would have gotten it by now.

You know, I am more than willing to take the blame for the bad game, if you two would stop fighting.

Wait, but also, are games not normally this fast? And @Nancy, were we supposed to talk more?

Also yay time to enter a newbie game... or never play again because lack of time and consistency.

People do indeed tend to remove their heads from their asses when they reach LYLO, and thus things slow down. Or they don't just announce guilties at day starts and force quicklynches. The sheer volume of posts in the early game is a pretty consistent thing though.

We have to see the game for what it was. An over the top kill heavy Multiball game. We got exactly what was promised.

I feel like the appropriate response here was "oh, town lost a bastard game where there was a 4 man scum team with 9 total anti-town players and zero redundancy in town investigative abilities"

Like purely from a math POV town doesn't win this most of the time

On the plus side, Cerb lost the game so I feel like in the end it all works out.

Yeah, again, slightly scumsided game overall I think.

[Cerberus v666]

Nominating

Flavor Leaf

for

Best Performance Third Party (Hannibal Lecter)

for his play in

Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

Just saying

If I see a PT where FL calls out DrewVa's response to this situation, I'll second it. Otherwise I have to assume it was the mistake it appeared to be. *shrug*

God, how much of a poor sport can you be? You’re just so freaking dense and bitter, that you need to make this about me.

Wrt OUR play, we ran circles around you this game and if you ever remove your head from your ass, maybe, you’ll actually see that.

DrewVa, again: Look at the way FL started the day phase. Does voting Amzela actually make sense coming from town, given the way they had approached the day start? Making that vote is a mistake all the time, unless you know that the person you're talking to is just going to go for it without thinking, which they claim they did. Unless I see that they ACTUALLY did call that in advance, as they're claiming they did, then it was a mistake.

You're being results oriented in your analysis. What's important isn't how it worked this time, but the process that led to that decision, and whether or not that decision was the right one.

Your behaviour to us, was abusive, unfair, unwarrented and mean. I’m not having this - or any other conversation with you for that matter, until you freaking apologize to me/us.

And furthermore, until you take into account my reasoning for why I did what I did, your analysis is pointless anyhow.

I am(again) never going to apologize to you because there is nothing to apologize for. If this shall be the last time we talk, that is unfortunate and I wish you the best going forward.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh!

Something I did that was a super fuckup, with the toog thing, that I realzied immediately but couldn't bring up because doing so would have made it more likely we'd end up mislynched:

Pushing toog the way I did was ABSOLUTELY a huge mistake. Not for the reasons others might think, but because I KNOW Toog is someone who would be willing to just end themselves as town, so I should have been MUCH more explicit in the best way to approach their role if they were town. What htey did was absolutely still the optimal action, but hte timing was wrong, and that was largely because I forgot that Toog is totally someone who'll just peace out of a game with no second thoughts, as they showed me in Heroes Wanted.

So yeah, that was a HUGE misread/mistake, with the knowledge I had of their playstyle.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh!

Something I did that was a super fuckup, with the toog thing, that I realzied immediately but couldn't bring up because doing so would have made it more likely we'd end up mislynched:

Pushing toog the way I did was ABSOLUTELY a huge mistake. Not for the reasons others might think, but because I KNOW Toog is someone who would be willing to just end themselves as town, so I should have been MUCH more explicit in the best way to approach their role if they were town. What htey did was absolutely still the optimal action, but hte timing was wrong, and that was largely because I forgot that Toog is totally someone who'll just peace out of a game with no second thoughts, as they showed me in Heroes Wanted.

So yeah, that was a HUGE misread/mistake, with the knowledge I had of their playstyle.

I also didn't believe that A50 would put in another role that oculd result in a killfree N1 after hearing everyone tell him that it was a mistake in the first overkill; obviously I was wrong about that, but that is part of why I was pretty content with Toog sorting himself for us that way, though again, the approach was bad.

[Cerberus v666]

Ya'll, I'm downloading 66 gigs of data right now to supplement the research and content I need to produce this game
I'm about to dump 72+ unpaid hours into building a setup for you folks
If I'm willing to do all this, please hash out stuff and come to a happy agreement moving forward

*shrug* I'm willing to play with anyone in one of your games Varsoon, even RC!

:p

Actually, I'm willing to play with anyone in any game, because I don't actually take things personally(though Drixx does when things get personal).

Also, there's a very good chance that people who dislike me won't be in the game because I tend to be one of the first people to signup to your games. <3

[Cerberus v666]

IMO, everyone has a right to note the mistakes that everyone made, including themselves; without that open discussion about gameplay post game everyone would improve at a much reduced pace.

I am shit at mafia though, 100%.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah but

YELLING

@ her accomplishes nothing except you getting your jollies. If you want to sit there and explain what she did wrong so she can grow and be better fine but telling her she's a hot mess only adds venom and a fight.

Unfortunately, at no point did she express any belief that she actually made a mistake. I told her, repeatedly, that I'd gladly have a conversation with her about the things I saw as mistakes that were made in terms of this games LYLO, but rather than engaging me on that topic she made the conversation about the hypocrisy she perceived in me criticizing her play when my own was lackluster. Had she, at any point, just expressed a desire to have a conversation about this difference in opinions/what it was I thought she had done wrong, we could have had that conversation. I agree that I could have approached all of this in a more conciliatory fashion that did not invite conflict, but I chose not to because that wouldn't have accurately reflected how I felt about the situation.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah but

YELLING

@ her accomplishes nothing except you getting your jollies. If you want to sit there and explain what she did wrong so she can grow and be better fine but telling her she's a hot mess only adds venom and a fight.

Well that’s the part he needs to apologize for but I obviously won’t be holding my breath.

If the tables were turned, he wouldn’t even have to ask me for an apology. That’s the obvious difference between us.

@Cerb: I'm pretty much the same way. I was even tempted to implement a 'Wisdom-of-the-Mod' rule about not letting players who I know couch games in toxic rhetoric, but I'm going to stand by not having any blacklists on my games.

@Nancy: Please don't judge someone so harshly for providing harshly worded criticism, even if it's not due. I honestly think you should both apologize to each other, to some degree. I think you misplayed LYLO here, too, and if I was town, I'd be really frustrated about it, too, just like I was with Shoshin in the post-game of TAZ mafia; but it's more about being frustrated with a person's play and not voicing it in a way that person is going to appreciate or actually care to grapple with.

No Varsoon, I don’t have any reason to apologize, because I disagree with your analysis. I already explained my case. It hurts that you don’t see it, though. :/

This is not a matter of pride but integrity. I am the first person to admit when I’m wrong about anything and hold out an olive branch/apologise but if I apologize when I’m

not

wrong, then it makes all my genuine heart-felt apologies worthless.

That’s way, you always know I’m sincere and not bsing you.

[Cerberus v666]

I also don't feel that I have any reason to apologize because I did not do anything wrong; my decision to not apologize to you is because doing so would require that I sacrifice my integrity to appease you. *shrug*

It's not any different.

And yep, check out the dead thread, that was one of the things you guys had wrong going into LYLO with your first post.

[Cerberus v666]

VOTE: Gladiate DrewVa and Cerb

I’d settle for just muzzling him at this point. Amzela must be a saint, is all I have to add to that.

AmmiZLToday at 5:14 PM

Mmm... I don’t like how Nancy attacked you but also she’s sensitive and you dug so can’t blame her.
Your online persona is different than how you are in person
Cerberus v6.66Today at 5:16 PM
mhm
My online persona is identical to how I am
just not in mafia
idk, mafia is weird
:-/

From our discord a bit ago.

And yes, I did get her permission to post that.

In post game discussions I'm a lot less accepting of people not accepting criticism than I am in life in general, and I'm a lot less..nice, I suppose. Feel free to look around the site at me posting in other contexts if you actually want to get a view of how I am.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, ftr: Had I not known how hard Amzela was working last night, and how much it stressed her trying to figure the game out so she'd make the right decision if she was alive this morning, I likely wouldn't have been so harsh towards you DrewVa, but knowing how much it was affecting her the actions you guys took felt very disrespectful of her and anyone else who may have tried just as hard and been just as invested in this game.

That's really why I used so much vitriol in my initial engagement, rather than the nicer alternatives. *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

mafia are out and 3ps dont have any reason to kill him

Technically i dont either, but I'd rather he doesn't clear everyone as not underdog

This right here is when things went wrong for town

the other killers began to play vs town rather than against other killers *because* they thought there would be a balance between the different mafia factions

Agreed.

I made a distinct choice at some point on like D3 to not elaborate on some point someone made because I didn't want to discourage scum from crosskilling, since I knew it was the only chance we had of winning.

[Cerberus v666]

I never said I blamed you for how you're reacting.*shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

Oh right.

Can mafia and tails explain the kills on us? I'll read the pts later, but we...were playing really poorly.

[Cerberus v666]

Ah it doesn’t matter. Thank you again for letting me join!

You're always welcome by me, whether or not Cerb is playing
(Though just between you and me, I like watching the RR hydra playing, and I hate whoever invented Discord because they now use it more often and I don't get their thoughts in real time)

It would also be good if they were playing separately. I think I may design a game with no hydras and invite them both to it to see them pitting wits against each other (Though knowing my luck, random.org will probably put them both in the same PT, whether it be a Masonry or the Scum PT)

Fyi, we will gladly invite any moderator to join our slack chat and follow along.

[Cerberus v666]

I don't know why I designed it such that after hammering just 3 players, TWO DIFFERENT ROLES could potentially get access to a 32-person kill.
SaGa Frontier wasn't very balanced.
God I love that game.

Word.

Is that including the global lynch abilities people could manage to get, or are these just kills?