A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Lady Angel]

Vote: Innocent Children

I believe your name has the most vowels in it, therefore I believe you are the most guilty.

[Lady Angel]

Did we actually have a dayvig less than a day into D1?

[Lady Angel]

How are people getting items on day 1 in a game with daystart? That's the weird part to me about Chickadee's role.

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Vecna

[Lady Angel]

I am Cornholio. Would you like a spatula? For your bunghole?

Can we lynch this? Please?

[Lady Angel]

What's the difference between me and all the other low posters/lurkers in this game? I don't see anything seperating the case on me from being on any other of them, other than people picking me for some reason.

[Lady Angel]

how come you aren't playing? Why didn't you comment on being wagoned earlier?

I had a lot of non-mafia related commitments to take care of this week, this was the first chance I've gotten since maybe late friday to really read. I usually skip or low-post through day 1, since analyzing posts is very much not my strong point when nobody's flipped yet.

Speaking of, I don't have a really strong feeling on anyone so far, except Vecna, whose whole great cornholio thing is just annoying. So I don't really have anything to add right now.

[Lady Angel]

if your sole thought about this game is that Vecna is annoying then why do you want to lynch him? Do you think anyone would follow you on that?

Honestly, no. The vote was more a frustration one than anything, and I don't have anything better to put a vote on right now.

[Lady Angel]

Reading through Lynch the Wolves for a comparison of Lady Angel's meta comes off as difficult. The game she was in... she was... mafia, so she assumed she was anti-town. Except she wasn't. How confusing. Regardless that really means she was attempting to play as the mafia alignment in that game.

Few things that are pinging me here on this ISO that may or may not have been covered already. And yes, it's only 9 posts but I have words about it.

how come you aren't playing? Why didn't you comment on being wagoned earlier?

I had a lot of non-mafia related commitments to take care of this week, this was the first chance I've gotten since maybe late friday to really read. I usually skip or low-post through day 1, since analyzing posts is very much not my strong point when nobody's flipped yet.

Speaking of, I don't have a really strong feeling on anyone so far, except Vecna, whose whole great cornholio thing is just annoying. So I don't really have anything to add right now.

I feel as if the first part has too much of a guilty conscience. It's strange because she manages to not use this as an excuse in Lynch the Wolves and she was mafia ("mafia") there, but ignoring that meta I would be suspicious of this phrasing. When I say "guilty conscience" it means that she's feeling like her lack of content is something that she should be worrying about. This make sense?

The second part of this post is strange about not having strong feelings, because several events have happened over the course of this game that Lady Angel has actually... acknowledged.

Did we actually have a dayvig less than a day into D1?

How are people getting items on day 1 in a game with daystart? That's the weird part to me about Chickadee's role.

In addition, she's clearly read up enough of the thread to know that she's not the easiest lynch in the world.

What's the difference between me and all the other low posters/lurkers in this game? I don't see anything seperating the case on me from being on any other of them, other than people picking me for some reason.

You seem to have a reticence for giving your reads, Lady Angel. Perhaps you don't think they matter or they're useless so early in Day 1. They do, even if they're not perfect or well formed. I would like to hear what they are. And you should have some... thoughts, even if you don't feel like you have understood the thread or read closely. Being wrong is OK.

I have a few (probably bad) reads:
- Skygazer claiming to be immune to abilities and then claiming getting five of the same Elton John Video is bizarre, but also feels too bizarre to make up and lie about.
- your interactions with the other hydra feel like a massive overreaction to one vote, bordering on personal. I don't like that.
- Mastina's role only being able to target town is extremely suspicious given the kind of role it is.
- If Vecna can only say sentences about the great cornholio then his role seems very useless to the town, but also probably not scum?

I have school, so I won't be able to post for most of the day.

UNVOTE:

I'd probably vote you or Mastina right now.

[Lady Angel]

I have an ability that makes mastina claim like a town check on my slot. she claimed she can only target town with gladiate. I have an ability that helps in gladiates. 2+2 = 4

but if you doubt that you can make mastina gladiate my slot to see what will happen. (hint I won't stop or retarct the gladiate and it will happen so day will end with her lynch as a result of this but my ability will be confirmed and if she is telling the truth I'll become ic)

~Sora

Why wouldn't you bring this up when Mastina claimed some 30 pages ago? Also, what do you mean "claim like a town check"?

Read up a bit more:
- Skygazer and Nero felt like Town vs Town while it was still happening
- Porkens has moved up on my scumlist due to having almost no content (his posts so far have ranged from potentially role-playing a cat to creating a choose your own adventure to simply agreeing with other people or even calling himself potentially scum). He doesn't appear to be making even a slight bit of effort to do more than troll the game.
- Titus and Chickadee are both setting off alarms for me, but not enough to hunt them right now. Innocent Children is still my top scumread for blowing up on the other hydra for all the pressure of one vote.
- The fact that you guys are getting information out of vecna is honestly quite amazing

Anyways, VOTE: Innocent Children.

I shall go with my gut here. If she blows up at me over this, I'd encourage other people to follow suit. Town shouldn't care about votes until there's real danger.

[Lady Angel]

can you explain those reads a little more

like why nero-sky felt tvt to you? can you elaborate this a little more? or what about titus and chick are alarming you?

It's more interesting for me to know how you're making your reads.

~Sora

Nero vs Sky felt like Town vs Town due to neither of them seemingly have an agenda behind going for each other beyond actually looking for scum, and both of them fairly mutally backing off afterwards as opposed to trying to push it further. Titus and Chickadee are both mostly gut feelings, but most of titus's posts seem very lacking in terms of actual game content (nowhere near the degree to which Porkens has set his sights upon), and Chickadee sending someone five identical elton john songs is just bizarre.

I have an ability that makes mastina claim like a town check on my slot. she claimed she can only target town with gladiate. I have an ability that helps in gladiates. 2+2 = 4

but if you doubt that you can make mastina gladiate my slot to see what will happen. (hint I won't stop or retarct the gladiate and it will happen so day will end with her lynch as a result of this but my ability will be confirmed and if she is telling the truth I'll become ic)

~Sora

Why wouldn't you bring this up when Mastina claimed some 30 pages ago? Also, what do you mean "claim like a town check"?

Read up a bit more:
- Skygazer and Nero felt like Town vs Town while it was still happening
- Porkens has moved up on my scumlist due to having almost no content (his posts so far have ranged from potentially role-playing a cat to creating a choose your own adventure to simply agreeing with other people or even calling himself potentially scum). He doesn't appear to be making even a slight bit of effort to do more than troll the game.
- Titus and Chickadee are both setting off alarms for me, but not enough to hunt them right now. Innocent Children is still my top scumread for blowing up on the other hydra for all the pressure of one vote.
- The fact that you guys are getting information out of vecna is honestly quite amazing

Anyways, VOTE: Innocent Children.

I shall go with my gut here. If she blows up at me over this, I'd encourage other people to follow suit. Town shouldn't care about votes until there's real danger.

No, you’re wrong about that, it was never about the vote, it was about my playstyle but I don’t want to rehash it.

I see. Very well.

UNVOTE:

I do not like the idea of Jjh and Vecna being together and vecna faking it in Porkens's argument, since it appears to be extremely circumstancial, especially since other people have also been able to ask Vecna questions and have him respond as well as the only real reason for his push seeming to be the fact that jjh spelt it out. It does seem like a possible scum push.

VOTE: Porkens

[Lady Angel]

Kurio is scum too

Why is your scum list seemingly only every single person on your wagon and nobody else?

[Lady Angel]

Minor nitpick, but It should be 11 to lynch with 21 people alive.

[Lady Angel]

That's really clever, I would never have guessed he'd be faking it.

Is there even enough time to get 12 people on him before the day ends?

[Lady Angel]

that answers my question.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vecna

[Lady Angel]

that answers my question.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vecna

What question

That's really clever, I would never have guessed he'd be faking it.

Is there even enough time to get 12 people on him before the day ends?

The answer so far is "likely".

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:
If Vecna's claiming D2 IC, then I'm willing to give it a shot. I guess either Porkens or no lynch today? I'd almost prefer NL and a chance to reread and reset reads going into day 2, since I'm not feeling particularly confident in my own reads right now.

[Lady Angel]

Porkens or mastina.

I have outright called those two my preferred lynches for today. Specifically with Porkens:

If I was trying to protect Porkens by wanting no lynch, why would I be on Porkens for more of today than I've been on anyone else and then suddenly change my mind near the end of the day while Porkens was close to the lead? Wouldn't that just make me look even worse if we were partners? As Scum, why would I hop on a wagon, hop off later, and not get back on the first wagon that is still somewhat viable today?

Scum "controlling the game" because of one no lynch in a 22P that is statistically more likely to be a mislynch than not also makes zero sense.

[Lady Angel]

That seems breakable to be able to do that every day..but ok

VOTE: Mastina
I volunteer for tomorrow, since you regret not gladiating me Mastina.

If you're volunteering for tomorrow, why vote for her?

VOTE: No lynch

[Lady Angel]

@Nico why can't you change votes, and why did you instantly vote someone knowing you can't change votes?


Chickadee's my top pick for today. Saying you want to be gladiated next while also placing a vote to kill the Gladiator is a mess, and while her reasoning ("Mastina has to die to clear her targets") makes sense, not on day one when she's targeted exactly one person.

VOTE: Chickadee

[Lady Angel]

@Gamma Emerald
This is my role.

Let me test something

VOTE: Porkens
VOTE: Porkens
VOTE: Porkens

I swear that ya'' are missing the obvious on purpose just to annoy me......

So if I'm reading this right and you're a triplevoter who can't change their targets when they vote three times... why would you blow it right at the start of the day?

[Lady Angel]

what changed between days 1 and 2 to make Nos scummy, besides Vecna randomly deciding it?

The Nico/Porkens interactions at the start of the day make barely any sense, especially considering Nico wasn't really on Porkens yesterday. She might have targeted him with it just for town credit?

Still think lynching Chickadee is the best play, but about half the playerlist has effectively vanished so lynching an inactive that isn't named Mastina would be fine.

[Lady Angel]

I'm not so sure being a dick is alignment-indicative. I could potentially go to Porkens, but... VOTE: Chikadee

If it was just one thing, I would be inclined to follow that more. Porkens just blindly attacked most everything day 1. He doesn't look for town at all. He's all about deflection. Almost all his "scumreads" are equally vapid.

I agree with you, and I think he's pretty scummy, but outside of being an ass why are you on him over someone like Chickadee?

Also, where on earth did Mastina go?

[Lady Angel]

"being an ass"? I defy you to quote me being an ass.

taking a short mental health break - need to decide if i need to replace out or not but probably no

Take care. Pretty scummy tho to duck out at this moment.

[Lady Angel]

why is Nico red when the last coloured name (blue) was a flipped town? Especially considering it's red...

[Lady Angel]

One of Titus, Vecna, Nero Cain, and JJh is probably scum, but I'm hesitant to vote in there because I can't figure out which one.

Chickadee is still scum, and I'm kinda surprised everyone just forgot about her.

Northsidegal's entrance to the game felt towny, Firebringer's less so.

RC's messages make about -5 sense.

[Lady Angel]

So why aren't we lynching Chickadee today, or at least gladiating her?

[Lady Angel]

One of Titus, Vecna, Nero Cain, and JJh is probably scum, but I'm hesitant to vote in there because I can't figure out which one.

y are any of these scum?

Probability states that not all the scum in this game can be inactive. That's about it.

[Lady Angel]

I think we've hit a brick wall due to there being basically no information, really. Scum killed the confirmed town last night so we didn't have anything to go off of there.

Really, we need to lynch someone and then re-evaluate for day 3 before there's going to be any actual progress here, most likely.

I'll probably shift my vote onto whoever's in the lead soon if it's not already chickadee just to try and help get us something.

[Lady Angel]

What do you want me to say, sky? I've made it pretty apparent that I don't think there's much of any information available right now.

[Lady Angel]

Why are we trying to lynch Mastina instead of just waiting for her to replace out or otherwise get force replaced?

[Lady Angel]

Why are we trying to lynch Mastina instead of just waiting for her to replace out or otherwise get force replaced?

because you are her partner thats why

Why are we trying to lynch Mastina instead of just waiting for her to replace out or otherwise get force replaced?

lady+mastina scum team?

...because I don't think lynching the player with a helpful role who more or less handed control of it over to the town is a good idea when her only crime is not replacing out when that applies to something like a third of the game?

I understand the frustration, and I also really wish she'd just replace out at this point, but I can't help but think lynching her is a little silly.

[Lady Angel]

Someone mind talking about why they scumread chickadee?

Yesterday, after Mastina gladiated Kuroi, she voted Mastina in the same post where she said to gladiate her the next day, and when asked about it, said that she (Mastina) has to die to clear whoever she's gladiated at this point. This is true, but the fact that she tried to kill her after one use of the ability while also saying that she wanted to be gladiated the next day in the exact same post was enough to raise suspicion. She hasn't done a good job of explaining herself either.

[Lady Angel]

Yes

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: No Lynch

I'd like to see one of Jingle/Vecna gladiated tomorrow, I don't think that was a town vs town argument.

[Lady Angel]

Well, I am not only a triple voter, I am also a rolecop. That's what Porkens wanted me to say, and now I have.

...why'd you cop Porkens, and why'd you manage to not say this until now?

This seems awfully convenient.

[Lady Angel]

I refuse to say anything to you stubborn peeps. >.>

How hard would it have been to say "I rolecopped Porkens, this is what I got, what should we do with this information?" instead of triplevoting Porkens at the start of the day, threatening him, and then having it all vanish for at least a week until you got sufficiently frustrated enough at not being listened to? This was just about the worst way possible to claim that...

Gladiate/Lynch Nico tomorrow?

[Lady Angel]

One particularly interesting thing is how certain NicoRobin is that Mastina is lying, when she supposedly holds a role that can determine this and did not use it to determine this, but is critical of others for being so sure she is telling the truth.



But I mean the visible panic with her interactions with me should be all you need anyway

How does NR’s role do that?

She claimed being a rolecop earlier on the page your post was on.

[Lady Angel]

@Nico

Why are you so hung up on Mastina, anyways? The role is confirmed to behave a certain way that is useful to town, and Mastina is more or less letting the town use it instead of her. Regardless of alignment, it's a good thing to have around.

also, answer these:
- Who else is scum, besides Mastina to you?
- Why do you have this certainty that Mastina is scum despite targeting Porkens last night? Is it solely because most of the game thinks she's town?
- Why did you fall back to lurking being your town trait as a defence when you aren't lurking this game?

[Lady Angel]

I don't entirely believe NicoRobin's claim, in all honesty. Just because of the terrible way it was claimed yesterday + me scumreading her. It just seems like there's a few too many holes in the role for it to be real, like how it's a triplevoting neigbourising rolecop or how Nico essentially only claims stuff when it suits her. I'm honestly more than a little suspicious that it's faked. The holier-than-thou attitude instead of actually backing it up just seals it for me.

@Nico what did you get on Porkens?

[Lady Angel]

I don't entirely believe NicoRobin's claim, in all honesty. Just because of the terrible way it was claimed yesterday + me scumreading her. It just seems like there's a few too many holes in the role for it to be real, like how it's a triplevoting neigbourising rolecop or how Nico essentially only claims stuff when it suits her. I'm honestly more than a little suspicious that it's faked. The holier-than-thou attitude instead of actually backing it up just seals it for me.

@Nico what did you get on Porkens?

It's only a triplevoting rolecop. I never claimed any neighborhood-type role.

And I received no result on Porkens.

Oh, my bad. Still, a triplevoting rolecop...

No result's also a touch convenient considering you threatened to share your result on Porkens early day 2. But you got no result, so why was Porkens even a little worried?

[Lady Angel]

I also think Mastina wouldn't go around gladiating whoever the town wants to gladiate as scum, since disloyal scum gladiator and loyal town gladiator both produce the exact same results. Meaning she's still willingly giving us townclears, which seems really anti-wincon. Possible towncred isn't happening, clearly, since half the game still wants to lynch her anyways.

Mastina definitely seems like the more reasonable one between her and nico, and if she gladiates Nico, this is what I see happening:

- Scum Disloyal Mastina or Town Loyal Mastina gladiating town Nico would activate the gladiate, in which case we no lynch or use Varsoon's ability to redo it.
- Scum Disloyal Mastina or Town Loyal Mastina gladiating scum Nico would have the gladiate fail, in which case regardless of Mastina's alignment Nico is scum.

So regardless of Mastina's alignment, we can safely gladiate Nico today and there's a 50% chance we get a scum out of it.

[Lady Angel]

Yo NicoRobin, is Mastina faking the trigger condition for her gladiate ability

Then again, why even ask? You will scumread me no matter what, because that's the only way you can save mastina, and you will ignore any and all posts which don't fit into your narrative.

Get ready to burn when I flip town.

kthxbai

If you're really serious about getting a guilty on Mastina, you may want to stop saying stuff like this.

[Lady Angel]

She will get proven as scum anyway if she refuses to gladiate me.

The hell kind of response to Mastina calling your guilty faked is this

Please corroborate if you did indeed lie and then you get to explain why

Yes, I lied.

It was for reaction test which both you and Jingle failed. You kept parroting how she was town and never considered the possibility that she could be scum, not even once. Any rational town would at least consider that possibility too.

Forgive me, but I happen to think this is bullshit.

Why would you, in any scenario, lie about your role for most of day 2 just to claim something under 24 hours to night in a spectacularly poor way, to fake a guilty and then act like you were going to get lynched before you outed the fact that it was faked? You freaked out with maybe one person voting you at absolute maximum after you declared a guilty, even crying about how you were the one that was going to get lynched today despite the fact that Mastina had something like five votes on her and would've been turboed by you with one or two more. And then after Mastina damns your claim, you try to pass it off as this before trying to pick up the same thread you had yesterday on

the next page?

Yes, you could get proof that she is scum, but 1) Mastina can always refuse seemingly and therefore you don't have any way to actually get that information and 2) you lost almost all your credibility after faking a guilty in the worst way possible.

I can't tell if this scum or just really poor play, but either way it's stupid, and that's not even before factoring in the fact that your plan seems to involve the entire scumteam would try to lynch a cop whose results will realistically fail basically every night when they could just nightkill them instead?

VOTE: NicoRobin

I can't decide if this is the worst fake guilty ever or legitimate scum but the fact that you flew off the handle during the period when you declared the guilty and said it was faked makes me lean scum.

[Lady Angel]

She will get proven as scum anyway if she refuses to gladiate me.

The hell kind of response to Mastina calling your guilty faked is this

Please corroborate if you did indeed lie and then you get to explain why

Yes, I lied.

It was for reaction test which both you and Jingle failed. You kept parroting how she was town and never considered the possibility that she could be scum, not even once. Any rational town would at least consider that possibility too.

Forgive me, but I happen to think this is bullshit.

Why would you, in any scenario, lie about your role for most of day 2 just to claim something under 24 hours to night in a spectacularly poor way, to fake a guilty and then act like you were going to get lynched before you outed the fact that it was faked? You freaked out with maybe one person voting you at absolute maximum after you declared a guilty, even crying about how you were the one that was going to get lynched today despite the fact that Mastina had something like five votes on her and would've been turboed by you with one or two more. And then after Mastina damns your claim, you try to pass it off as this before trying to pick up the same thread you had yesterday on

the next page?

Yes, you could get proof that she is scum, but 1) Mastina can always refuse seemingly and therefore you don't have any way to actually get that information and 2) you lost almost all your credibility after faking a guilty in the worst way possible.

I can't tell if this scum or just really poor play, but either way it's stupid, and that's not even before factoring in the fact that your plan seems to involve the entire scumteam would try to lynch a cop whose results will realistically fail basically every night when they could just nightkill them instead?

VOTE: NicoRobin

I can't decide if this is the worst fake guilty ever or legitimate scum but the fact that you flew off the handle during the period when you declared the guilty and said it was faked makes me lean scum.

Congratulations, you just summed up like 30 posts by jj in a concise, clear, and easy to read manner, invalidating almost 5 pages of back and forth.

Allow me to retort. I think most of it's probably NAI because my limited experience with NR tells me that she is prone to overreacting when she decides town is dismissing her, and a lot of the back and forth reads the same as a town game of hers that I linked a few pages back. Furthermore, with the possibility of a hard reset and additional content being imminently forthcoming, I'd appreciate not alienating the person who may just be town feeling persecuted and reacting as such and give NR the room to back off and give us more content to analyze from her.

I'm not saying NR can't be scum. I'm saying let's table that whole conversation for two IRL days so that she can get an actual result on mastina and go from there.

This is fair. Admittedly, the only time I've played with Nico she replaced out early day 1 after getting frustrated over being scumread for her apparent town trait (go figure, that slot flipped scum), so my reaction was pretty exclusively contained to this game, but I'll take your word for it for now. I did perhaps come on a bit too strong as well.

Should we start planning out what to do for each result Nico could come back with?

[Lady Angel]

@somebody voting mastina: Unvote so Nico can't turbo her if Mastina gives her a triplevote.

[Lady Angel]

Is she always like this?

[Lady Angel]

This is legitimately the worst claim ever and we should lynch her/gladiate her just for that.

What I think actually happened is that Nico is a rolecop and is trying to bullshit her way through this because she got back the result that Mastina already claimed in-thread.

[Lady Angel]

@Mastina/Porkens can you quote exactly (or paraphrase as closely as possible without breaking a rule) what the message you got from this role was?

[Lady Angel]

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

Oh, whoops. I'd still like to hear from Porkens what the line was but I've accepted that that probably isn't happening anytime soon, so there's a chance that Mastina's word is all we have to go off of.

This is basically how the situation went:
- Nico scumreads Mastina
- Nico talks about it and gets argued against, starts calling the people arguing against her scum
- Nico claims rolecop, promises to scan Mastina
- Nico fakes a guilty and admits it less than a day later, claiming it was a reaction test after Mastina comes back with facts
- Nico gets result and claims tracker, goes back to blaming the people who were arguing with her are scum because they messed with her result somehow??
- Nico claims that she got Rolecop and Tracker confused.... somehow, despite the name of the role having the role in it.
- Nico, after dodging the question a few times, finally paraphrases her role and ability and it turns out she's a watcher too, but still tries to play the victim card

How is any of this even remotely town motivated?

[Lady Angel]

What I think actually happened is that Nico is a rolecop and is trying to bullshit her way through this because she got back the result that Mastina already claimed in-thread.

I'm still going to float this theory, it's the only way I can think of that this situation makes any degree of sense.

[Lady Angel]

@Porkens

Did Nico's ability ask for your role or who you visited on the night you used it on?

[Lady Angel]

I give it 48 hours until she changes her role back.

Gladiate away, Mastina.

[Lady Angel]

BTW at work so the soonest you'll get a content post from me is in over 3 hours, but I'd like to reiterate.
If you think Nico is scum, ask yourself, "how does this make sense coming from scum?".
You might default to, "scum caught in a lie, backtracking"…
…Except. While that may work as an explanation for some scummers. It doesn't work as an explanation for NICO. Quite the opposite, it's the very proof that she's town. You might struggle to understand how it makes sense coming from town, but serious question.

How many games have you played?
In how many of those games, was there a town player whose actions made no sense, but they were still town?

You're outright ignorant or lying if it hasn't happened in at least a third of your games.

It's a little difficult to show because she has a dozen past accounts, but I can show Nico's quite extensive history of this sort of thing.

You want real scum?

Try here.
VOTE: Varsoon.
Would vote Firebringer slot if I remembered the name of who holds it, but this works just as well.

I don't think anyone's asking how this makes sense from scum, but rather how it makes sense as town. While yes, Town does dumb stuff, I legitimately can't see why a single town slot would do all of the following, in order:

- Fake a guilty. This is probably the most reasonable thing Nico's done today if it weren't for the fact that her claim and role is very easily disputed if she actually used the role last night, which she did.

- Retracting the fake guilty after the claim is fine, calling it a reaction test to call (funny enough) the people calling her scum scum again is slightly less so. She never bothered to explain how it was a reaction test beyond what boiled down to "Well if you went along with it I wouldn't think you're scum"

- Claiming she was a tracker a day after she'd claimed rolecop, and claiming to get no result after she got back the result from you. This was after you claimed she wanted your role, I might add. She stuck by this even after both players she targeted counterclaimed, and after a brief period where she tried to play it as a tracker/watcher who demanded roles...

- Backpedaled to the rolecop claim. This is one of the more fine things she's done, but the damage has already been done at this point.

The thing is, we

know

she got a result, and rather than share it she spent two days trying more or less every possibility to get out of sharing her result. How is that town play? What town motivation does any player have to not share a cop result and instead spend two days derailing everything?

@Nico

, now that you're a rolecop again, what was your result on Mastina?

[Lady Angel]

I never left the game mastina, so you going to replace our or what

Nope! I will however move my vote from one scum to another.
VOTE: Firebringer.
Could still vote for V tho.
Also Lady Angel.

I realize that there's more than 3 scum, but I'd need to do a readslist and unpack my thoughts in order to name the other 2/3. Some players I can tell you aren't scum, e.g. jjh, Jingle, Nico, but I can't remember all the players in the game so. Can't give a read on someone who I don't even remember is in the game!

But right now. Since a top townread is being wagoned, my priority is dismantling that wagon so that we can vote for the REAL scum.

On that note. Since I'm phoneposting, there are some things that I can't do, e.g. link to games. (In particular, I want to link to Lynch the Wolves, because it is hands down bar none the best possible reference for understanding why Nico is town this game. Jingle may be able to guess what I'm going for here, as it's both a town and scum example simultaneously.)

But what I CAN do. Is explain where I am coming from.

Early in the game, I scumread Nico, because she was playing to her scum meta: lurking, doing nothing. Near the end of D1, she started aggressively pushing me. A promising sign, because she uses Burden of Proficiency on me; she knows that I can read her better than any other player on site, so my scumreading a town-Nico, in her eyes, would be a scumclaim from me.

It is not beyond her ability to fake, but it was a step in the right direction. Then you get her D2 antics, which ARE beyond her capacity tofake. A certain level of stubborn indignance, where she pushes hard on ideas that drive people crazy and want to policy lynch her.

But as Jingle so rightly pointed out. We can't policy Lynch this game and even if we could, I'd never abide by it because I am vehemently against the idea. We aim to Lynch scum. Not people who are annoying.

The town motivation lies in her being a particularly quirky human, prone to certain behaviors, including misreading roles and/or fakeclaiming. It's obviously always detrimental especially in games combining both, but it is a hard, solid towntell no matter how much you don't like it.

What made you suddenly start to scumread me now? The fact that I want to lynch Nico, or something else?

[Lady Angel]

Can anyone who hasn't voted vote after the freeze?

Because otherwise if you do it we get another no lynch and no clears from it.

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:

Would encourage everyone to do this.

This role is super negative utility but roughly half the roles in this game we've seen so far have little to no utility so I don't think it's that bad?

[Lady Angel]

So who has mastina 'cleared'
And why aren't those players dead from nightkills?
Do you people even stop to think
Do you?

You probably don't know this since you replaced in late, but on day 1 we had a desperado shoot town, giving us a true clear (I consider Kuroi and chick semiclears right now), and scum actually shot that N1, followed by N2 not having a kill. So your post kind of falls apart because the only kill scum has to its name so far was a townclear anyways. And it's entirely possible that scum could've shot Kuroi last night, he claimed something close to deathproof (either deathproof or some sort of coming-back-from-the-dead role, if it's the second then they shot elsewhere and failed) and was one of the players Mastina's semicleared right now. Chick probably isn't a threat for them since her role seems to be limited to giving out music videos (Would appreciate one, I'm always looking for good music) and she's not active. Shooting Mastina is a bad idea since it inflates the game with more townclears if she flips town and would clear up a huge amount of suspicion surrounding her and her role that takes attention off of scum.

As an aside, I would also like to see Mastina gladiate more active players for maximum ability usage (JJH and/or Jingle first, preferably), since a cleared town that's actually active in a game where there is a doc in the setup would probably be a huge boon to a game that's more or less stalled.

[Lady Angel]

You have three times as many posts as me because I keep all my thoughts in one post instead of wallposting.

What do you mean, "trying to appear town", by the way?

[Lady Angel]

Hurt: NicoRobin, JJH, Jingle

I don't know how to do a hurt tag so hopefully this will suffice.

[Lady Angel]

I very much understand why identity is important, especially to trans or non-binary people, and I do understand the frustration. However, yelling at somebody every time it happens is not the way to get them to change their behaviour, and it's more likely to make people go "wow, these people are..." than it is to make them understand or feel bad about it. On top of that, understand that people can and do make mistakes, and you have to be receptive of that even if it is annoying. Not every misgender is a targeted attack, and doing this for every mistake is more likely to make people not care what they call you as opposed to the response you're trying to get.

[Lady Angel]

I'm not amazingly active, but I am here to play this game until the end. I signed up for it, after all.

[Lady Angel]

First off, I'm glad you're getting treatment for this, Mastina. It sounds awful and I hope you get well soon.

Second off, I would be fine with a Jingle gladiate since we either get an actual active softclear or a scum confirm on his flip, be it him or Mastina if he flips town.

[Lady Angel]

That feels like misrepping the facts. mastina glaciated, rather than ya going on and lynching. I feel like you’re really trying to play both sides of the field at this point.

I mean, those were the leading lynch with something like 48 hours left to the end of the day. We were doing a terrible job of actually lynching anyone, and the fact that mastina gladiated would not have changed that.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Firebringer

Mastina basically just got confirmed loyal, so...

[Lady Angel]

why didn't scum kill mastina?
like that is bullshit.

if someone in the town saved her, fuck u.

Again, why would scum kill mastina when most of the discussion in the game revolves around her and can be used as a distraction? Why would scum kill mastina when it would clear several players?

[Lady Angel]

I'm basically vanilla, Jingle.

[Lady Angel]

No, not role claims.

Claims of who you voted for in paranoia.

Varsoon.

[Lady Angel]

And here is the idea. Nobody target me or mastina tonight, cos I know someone has been protecting her from my tracker. If my results aren't tampered with in any way and I track her to a kill, then we'll know she is scum.

Weren't you apparently a cop the last time this was brought up?

You've quite literally gone cop - tracker - cop - tracker when we've gotten proof from two of your targets that you're a cop.

[Lady Angel]

I am extremely confused.

[Lady Angel]

Everything to do with Shoshin.

[Lady Angel]

Oh, it was a inner joke because I'm nihilist IRL.

For the record, the former response is not game related in any way?

Hm. That potentially changes things. Not for the creature/mastina thing, but for the creature scumclaiming thing.

I advocate a rolecop on Creature if possible.

Considering that you refuse to even consider the possibility that mastina might be scum who is fakeclaiming, I will refuse to even consider your request.

And now you're a cop again.

I'm starting to think your role is entirely dependent on whether it's an odd or even numbered page at any given moment. Either way, I think that the fact that you're dragging this claim on is stupid and your constant grouping of Mastina/Jingle/JJH kind of sucks, since it's just Mastina + the two people who most vocally believed you were scum.

I'd like to know what the flavour Creature got on Mastina actually is before I do anything. It's easy to say you've gotten a guilty but I'll believe it when there's actual evidence.

On another note, VOTE: NicoRobin

This is easily the scummiest slot in the game.

[Lady Angel]

NSG replaced Nancy's slot? Hmm, why'd Nancy replace out the game? I feel like she's more likely to do that as scum than town.

We're not supposed to talk about Nancy's Hydra getting replaced, apparently.

I townread Creature, Jjh, Jingle, and Nero Cain the most. Mastina'd be a tr based on the fact that Varsoon risked everything to try and get her lynched but I'm waiting to see what Creature actually has right now.

I don't really overtly scumread anyone except NicoRobin, although Firebringer's a bit up there that might just be because of his adamance to lynch Mastina.

[Lady Angel]

Lady, why townread Nero? Why scumread Nico?

I get the same vibe from Nero as I do from JJh, although moreso day 1 than now.

Nico claimed a guilty on mastina in the worst way possible and has just generally been completely nonsensical. The fact that she's constantly switched her role back and forth and is refusing to provide any explanation for anything she's done beyond "Mastina is scum and you guys are stupid for not being able to see it" just makes it worse.

[Lady Angel]

I don't really overtly scumread anyone except NicoRobin, although Firebringer's a bit up there that might just be because of his adamance to lynch Mastina.

Can you talk to me about this Fire read? You think he's scum because he wants to lynch Mastina?

If you were to read the page or so leading up to Varsoon's lynch, it was essentially a page-long genuine rant about Mastina's role that ended with his ability triggering. This isn't Alignment-indicative in and of itself, but Varsoon flipped scum - so either he should win an oscar or he and Mastina don't share an alignment. Following that, Chickadee, one of the people Mastina gladiated and had it trigger on, flipped town. If Mastina is either Loyal or Disloyal (which, for the record, Creature may have just confirmed), that essentially outright confirms her role and Firebringer's still going at her. I don't think that's entirely AI, but given what Varsoon just did it seems pretty apparent that Mastina is not scum and Firebringer constantly trying to vote there is anti-wincon as town or just outright playing for scum. Same with Nico, whose entire argument can more or less be summed up as "Mastina is scum because I am right and I am right because I say so" but everything else here applies.

Want to talk, Jingle?

[Lady Angel]

What made you vote me? From my point of view, it seemed pretty out of the blue although you do scumread me.

[Lady Angel]

I'd like to see specifically what I did to make you think that way, if I may.

[Lady Angel]

Your pushes have been the driving force. The two big ones I can remember are Firebringer and NR, both over things that have more to do with being bad than being scum.

Your push on NR boils down to she's being inconsistent and erratic with her role. You've done very little (if anything) to explain why that's more likely to be scum than derptown.
Your push on Firebringer is similar, in that it's very surface level. You're clearly aware of his push on mastina, but not enough to realize that it is in fact a policy lynch push. Something that should be immediately obvious to anyone actually trying to read his alignment.

Of course, both of those stances are correct, but you've done very little to show why they're scum because of them. NR IS being weird about her role. Fire IS tunneling mastina. But that's as far as you get. Additionally despite having those stances, you're far from the most vocal proponent of either case (JJH for Nico, Mastina for Fire), so you're unlikely to suffer much blowback should they flip town.

Also, mastina thinks you're scum, I haven't seen a single post by you that makes me feel the townvibes, and I have a fairly quickly dwindling PoE pool.

The thing that pushes NR and Firebringer from bad/annoyed town to scum for me. Within the spam of a few days we've seen a scum effectively suicide to try and kill her, one of the people she gladiated flipping town making her role soft-confirmed, and a role cop effectively confirm her role. And despite this, we've seen Nico ramp it up even more to what basically amounts to fearmongering, and Firebringer replace out (although I have a hunch that this is to do with Mastina's role, I think it was Shoshin's entrance that pushed him over the edge, so this isn't as solid, but that's why NR is my top scumread). I feel like by this point someone playing to a town wincon would stop, re-evaluate, and see if it was still worth it or not as opposed to just keep going with what they're currently doing it.

@NR what do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

[Lady Angel]

Is there any specific aspect of their play or is there anything else in particular that makes this scum instead of bad? Do you have any reason to suspect that either of them specifically would be prone to reevaluating?

I haven't played with either of them so until I learn otherwise I expect them to be rational.

Your pushes have been the driving force. The two big ones I can remember are Firebringer and NR, both over things that have more to do with being bad than being scum.

Your push on NR boils down to she's being inconsistent and erratic with her role. You've done very little (if anything) to explain why that's more likely to be scum than derptown.
Your push on Firebringer is similar, in that it's very surface level. You're clearly aware of his push on mastina, but not enough to realize that it is in fact a policy lynch push. Something that should be immediately obvious to anyone actually trying to read his alignment.

Of course, both of those stances are correct, but you've done very little to show why they're scum because of them. NR IS being weird about her role. Fire IS tunneling mastina. But that's as far as you get. Additionally despite having those stances, you're far from the most vocal proponent of either case (JJH for Nico, Mastina for Fire), so you're unlikely to suffer much blowback should they flip town.

Also, mastina thinks you're scum, I haven't seen a single post by you that makes me feel the townvibes, and I have a fairly quickly dwindling PoE pool.

The thing that pushes NR and Firebringer from bad/annoyed town to scum for me. Within the spam of a few days we've seen a scum effectively suicide to try and kill her, one of the people she gladiated flipping town making her role soft-confirmed, and a role cop effectively confirm her role. And despite this, we've seen Nico ramp it up even more to what basically amounts to fearmongering, and Firebringer replace out (although I have a hunch that this is to do with Mastina's role, I think it was Shoshin's entrance that pushed him over the edge, so this isn't as solid, but that's why NR is my top scumread). I feel like by this point someone playing to a town wincon would stop, re-evaluate, and see if it was still worth it or not as opposed to just keep going with what they're currently doing it.

@NR what do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

Really? You scumread me for being unable to re-evaluate when jingle and jjh refuse to re-evaluate and consider the possibility she could be scum?

Because as much as you think she is town, no one is 100 % town, and yet Jingle and jjh treat her like she is 100% town based on flimsy evidence at best.

Because Jingle (possible JJH as well, but I specifically remember Jingle) actually

has

, and has mentioned it to you several times which you seem to have conveniently forgotten because you want people to vote her, not "consider the possibility". And I'd hardly call a cop claim that confirms her role to be one of Loyal or Disloyal (both of which produce clears and can and should be abused by the town considering the town as a whole, including Mastina, agrees that Mastina doesn't live to the endgame), one of her targets flipping town, and scum self-destructing just to try and kill her "flimsy evidence" at this point.

Now, once again: What do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

[Lady Angel]

Is there any specific aspect of their play or is there anything else in particular that makes this scum instead of bad? Do you have any reason to suspect that either of them specifically would be prone to reevaluating?

I haven't played with either of them so until I learn otherwise I expect them to be rational.

Your pushes have been the driving force. The two big ones I can remember are Firebringer and NR, both over things that have more to do with being bad than being scum.

Your push on NR boils down to she's being inconsistent and erratic with her role. You've done very little (if anything) to explain why that's more likely to be scum than derptown.
Your push on Firebringer is similar, in that it's very surface level. You're clearly aware of his push on mastina, but not enough to realize that it is in fact a policy lynch push. Something that should be immediately obvious to anyone actually trying to read his alignment.

Of course, both of those stances are correct, but you've done very little to show why they're scum because of them. NR IS being weird about her role. Fire IS tunneling mastina. But that's as far as you get. Additionally despite having those stances, you're far from the most vocal proponent of either case (JJH for Nico, Mastina for Fire), so you're unlikely to suffer much blowback should they flip town.

Also, mastina thinks you're scum, I haven't seen a single post by you that makes me feel the townvibes, and I have a fairly quickly dwindling PoE pool.

The thing that pushes NR and Firebringer from bad/annoyed town to scum for me. Within the spam of a few days we've seen a scum effectively suicide to try and kill her, one of the people she gladiated flipping town making her role soft-confirmed, and a role cop effectively confirm her role. And despite this, we've seen Nico ramp it up even more to what basically amounts to fearmongering, and Firebringer replace out (although I have a hunch that this is to do with Mastina's role, I think it was Shoshin's entrance that pushed him over the edge, so this isn't as solid, but that's why NR is my top scumread). I feel like by this point someone playing to a town wincon would stop, re-evaluate, and see if it was still worth it or not as opposed to just keep going with what they're currently doing it.

@NR what do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

Really? You scumread me for being unable to re-evaluate when jingle and jjh refuse to re-evaluate and consider the possibility she could be scum?

Because as much as you think she is town, no one is 100 % town, and yet Jingle and jjh treat her like she is 100% town based on flimsy evidence at best.

Because Jingle (possible JJH as well, but I specifically remember Jingle) actually

has

, and has mentioned it to you several times which you seem to have conveniently forgotten because you want people to vote her, not "consider the possibility". And I'd hardly call a cop claim that confirms her role to be one of Loyal or Disloyal (both of which produce clears and can and should be abused by the town considering the town as a whole, including Mastina, agrees that Mastina doesn't live to the endgame), one of her targets flipping town, and scum self-destructing just to try and kill her "flimsy evidence" at this point.

Now, once again: What do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

You townread both, and there is no evidence of jjh considering that possibility, so your whole point is bs.

Really? The thing I very specifically stated I wasn't 100% sure on wasn't acknowledged in thread so my entire point is moot because of it? That's your defence? And am I not allowed to comment on players I townread on?

And what do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

Is there any specific aspect of their play or is there anything else in particular that makes this scum instead of bad? Do you have any reason to suspect that either of them specifically would be prone to reevaluating?

I haven't played with either of them so until I learn otherwise I expect them to be rational.

Your pushes have been the driving force. The two big ones I can remember are Firebringer and NR, both over things that have more to do with being bad than being scum.

Your push on NR boils down to she's being inconsistent and erratic with her role. You've done very little (if anything) to explain why that's more likely to be scum than derptown.
Your push on Firebringer is similar, in that it's very surface level. You're clearly aware of his push on mastina, but not enough to realize that it is in fact a policy lynch push. Something that should be immediately obvious to anyone actually trying to read his alignment.

Of course, both of those stances are correct, but you've done very little to show why they're scum because of them. NR IS being weird about her role. Fire IS tunneling mastina. But that's as far as you get. Additionally despite having those stances, you're far from the most vocal proponent of either case (JJH for Nico, Mastina for Fire), so you're unlikely to suffer much blowback should they flip town.

Also, mastina thinks you're scum, I haven't seen a single post by you that makes me feel the townvibes, and I have a fairly quickly dwindling PoE pool.

The thing that pushes NR and Firebringer from bad/annoyed town to scum for me. Within the spam of a few days we've seen a scum effectively suicide to try and kill her, one of the people she gladiated flipping town making her role soft-confirmed, and a role cop effectively confirm her role. And despite this, we've seen Nico ramp it up even more to what basically amounts to fearmongering, and Firebringer replace out (although I have a hunch that this is to do with Mastina's role, I think it was Shoshin's entrance that pushed him over the edge, so this isn't as solid, but that's why NR is my top scumread). I feel like by this point someone playing to a town wincon would stop, re-evaluate, and see if it was still worth it or not as opposed to just keep going with what they're currently doing it.

@NR what do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

Really? You scumread me for being unable to re-evaluate when jingle and jjh refuse to re-evaluate and consider the possibility she could be scum?

Because as much as you think she is town, no one is 100 % town, and yet Jingle and jjh treat her like she is 100% town based on flimsy evidence at best.

Because Jingle (possible JJH as well, but I specifically remember Jingle) actually

has

, and has mentioned it to you several times which you seem to have conveniently forgotten because you want people to vote her, not "consider the possibility". And I'd hardly call a cop claim that confirms her role to be one of Loyal or Disloyal (both of which produce clears and can and should be abused by the town considering the town as a whole, including Mastina, agrees that Mastina doesn't live to the endgame), one of her targets flipping town, and scum self-destructing just to try and kill her "flimsy evidence" at this point.

Now, once again: What do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

And furthermore, when exactly do you plan to lynch her? You say you won't let her live until the endgame, but your actions say otherwise.

In case you haven't noticed yet, there's 18 players left in the game and at absolute most 5 scum left. We're nowhere near lylo, and as long as we lynch her before then, we're fine. That does not mean right now, since there's still very valid use of the role left.

[Lady Angel]

No. You either lynch her now, or she'll talk her way out of it when/if you do decide she needs to go. Trust me on this.

No, she's already admitted as early as day 1 that she knew she wouldn't survive to the endgame with this role, and that it had to happen to confirm her targets. You're blatantly fearmongering because you know her role is insane if it's town, and you aren't town.

What do you think of Creature's cop claim on Mastina? I should not have to have asked this five times in five posts you've directly quoted.

[Lady Angel]

No. You either lynch her now, or she'll talk her way out of it when/if you do decide she needs to go. Trust me on this.

No, she's already admitted as early as day 1 that she knew she wouldn't survive to the endgame with this role, and that it had to happen to confirm her targets. You're blatantly fearmongering because you know her role is insane if it's town, and you aren't town.

What do you think of Creature's cop claim on Mastina? I should not have to have asked this five times in five posts you've directly quoted.

Even if I thought something, there is no way any of you would see reason and just lynch her before she can get into your heads.

Oh, and FYI, I explicitly said she could be town, I just don't think she is. However, there is one scenario in which she can proven town. If she gladiates me and fails, then she is disloyal town, because I know I am town.

She can't be disloyal town because Chickadee flipped town and Mastina gladiated her.

[Lady Angel]

You basically said:

"Don't gladiate me, but if you do, then don't be surprised if it doesn't work"

And how exactly do you think I am even capable of stopping a gladiate on me? I am modified tracker triple-voter. I can't stop it.

The only way that gladiate on me can be stopped is if mastina refuses to gladiate, which would prove she is scum beyond a doubt.

Don’t play dumb. He means it’d fail because you are scum. Your own role would have no effect.

Except that I am not scum.

It is completely impossible for Mastina's role to be disloyal town. Therefore, the only way the gladiate would fail on you is if you were scum.

@Thread I'd think at this point we just vote her, either we lynch her ourselves, force Mastina to gladiate her, or force Mastina to gladiate someone else to save her doing that. Although at this point, I think Mastina would have to see the slip here.

[Lady Angel]

I think you missed a bunch of creature's recent posts?

the whole "Creature is posting so Creature is town" is stale old meta. Do you mean his "guilty" on Mastina?

His result on mastina more or less confirmed her role, actually.

[Lady Angel]

I think you missed a bunch of creature's recent posts?

the whole "Creature is posting so Creature is town" is stale old meta. Do you mean his "guilty" on Mastina?

His result on mastina more or less confirmed her role, actually.

Spell mastina’s flavor. I’ll wait,

Ginngie, Guilty Faker
Ginngie, False Detective
Ginngie, Town Misfaker
Ginngie, Town Challenger

That wasn't hard. The only reason people are even questioning it is because "Ginngie" doesn't have an a in it and mastina didn't claim full flavour.

For what it's worth, my role follows an "___, x of y" format and it seems like variations on that are the norm in this game.

[Lady Angel]

HURT: NicoRobin, Firebringer, Invisibility

Mastina's role is basically confirmed at this point, so I'm pretty willing to go on with her plan, although I'm very adamant about lynching/gladiating Nico, meta or not. In fact, the only other game I've played with Nico, she replaced herself out day 1 for being (correctly) read as scum for something she considers her town trait, so she's at least somewhat capable of meta manipulation. I don't expect Mastina to do it, but we can still lynch and force her to gladiate someone or let Nico be lynched, so I'm keeping my vote there.

Killing inactives to keep the game alive is fine by me, too.

[Lady Angel]

Also, for someone who thinks mastina is town, you sure don't put much stock in her reads either, despite the fact she is better at reading people than most of us, as either alignment.

You

just

quoted a post where I said I was willing to trust Mastina's plan, which also includes trusting her reads.

[Lady Angel]

Also, for someone who thinks mastina is town, you sure don't put much stock in her reads either, despite the fact she is better at reading people than most of us, as either alignment.

You

just

quoted a post where I said I was willing to trust Mastina's plan, which also includes trusting her reads.

You don't. You still scumread me, despite the fact that she townreads me.

There's a difference between trusting someone's reads and outright sheeping? Nobody in this game has the exact same reads as another player, I'm pretty sure, and that's generally how the game of mafia works. If we all just followed one player without discussion and that player isn't 100% accurate, then we're screwed. Good, well-thought out and well-argued discussion (which, incidentally, I don't think I'm that good at and am mostly playing to improve upon) and differing opinions are important to the game as town.

Of course, you're only twisting it this way because you want to get suspicion off you and onto me or you want me to say you're town and lay off, which comes from a completely different motive entirely.

[Lady Angel]

Also, for someone who thinks mastina is town, you sure don't put much stock in her reads either, despite the fact she is better at reading people than most of us, as either alignment.

You

just

quoted a post where I said I was willing to trust Mastina's plan, which also includes trusting her reads.

You don't. You still scumread me, despite the fact that she townreads me.

There's a difference between trusting someone's reads and outright sheeping? Nobody in this game has the exact same reads as another player, I'm pretty sure, and that's generally how the game of mafia works. If we all just followed one player without discussion and that player isn't 100% accurate, then we're screwed. Good, well-thought out and well-argued discussion (which, incidentally, I don't think I'm that good at and am mostly playing to improve upon) and differing opinions are important to the game as town.

Of course, you're only twisting it this way because you want to get suspicion off you and onto me or you want me to say you're town and lay off, which comes from a completely different motive entirely.

Read Steven Universe 2, a game where different opinions caused us to lose, and the reason I think sheeeping is better. Read what happened at in the end of that game, and then come here and tell me sheeping shouldn't be done.

1) Who are you sheeping in this game, then?

2) Why do you want me to sheep the person who you've been calling scum for the past two days, outside of the fact that she isn't voting for you?

[Lady Angel]

(also, im just completely fine with modkilling whoever replaces out at this point, instead of calling the game).

I'd agree with this solution over calling off the game.

[Lady Angel]

Also, for someone who thinks mastina is town, you sure don't put much stock in her reads either, despite the fact she is better at reading people than most of us, as either alignment.

You

just

quoted a post where I said I was willing to trust Mastina's plan, which also includes trusting her reads.

You don't. You still scumread me, despite the fact that she townreads me.

There's a difference between trusting someone's reads and outright sheeping? Nobody in this game has the exact same reads as another player, I'm pretty sure, and that's generally how the game of mafia works. If we all just followed one player without discussion and that player isn't 100% accurate, then we're screwed. Good, well-thought out and well-argued discussion (which, incidentally, I don't think I'm that good at and am mostly playing to improve upon) and differing opinions are important to the game as town.

Of course, you're only twisting it this way because you want to get suspicion off you and onto me or you want me to say you're town and lay off, which comes from a completely different motive entirely.

Read Steven Universe 2, a game where different opinions caused us to lose, and the reason I think sheeeping is better. Read what happened at in the end of that game, and then come here and tell me sheeping shouldn't be done.

1) Who are you sheeping in this game, then?

2) Why do you want me to sheep the person who you've been calling scum for the past two days, outside of the fact that she isn't voting for you?

1. Firebringer, apparently, although it's actually the other way around.
2. To prove a point that you would rather see her endgame the town than lynch her. :c

1. Funny, your only interactions with Firebringer in either of your two ISOs are you two arguing over wether or not you can play well, right down to you trying to "vote him out of the game for your own sanity". Firebringer has mentioned you three times. If you think he's sheeping you because he also wants to kill Mastina then I really don't know what to say.

2 is so hilariously, transparently anti-town that I'm not even going to bother.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Invisibility

Firebringer, Invisibility, NR, Porkens is my scumpool with a side chance of meme men in there.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Firebringer

Please just gladiate it.

[Lady Angel]

That's literally how she gladiates people...

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Lady Angel]

So......

@JJH @Jingle Your 'analysis' was wrong after all, and that means you were either so damn stupid or you're both scum with mastina and Porkens. I am your Judge, Jury and Executioner. What do you have to say for yourselves?

Have you ever considered that the reason we don't listen to you is because of posts like this?

On another note, Mastina's refusal to gladiate Nico combined with Nico's very adamant assertation that the gladiate would fail on her takes a whole new meaning now, huh?

[Lady Angel]

I don't super want to directly ask every single player for their top reads but I really do want everyone to give either a reads list or at least their top 5, i.e. @Lady Angel

-rh

The only player I'm feeling really sure on right now is NicoRobin, I don't get why Mastina would go out of her way to protect an easy mis/no (only if town) lynch and scum have definitely been bussing each other this game, so I could definitely see Nico going for it like this. I also think, in terms of role usage, Nico did successfully target Mastina the day she said and went ballistic because she didn't want to out Mastina for... some reason. I don't believe for a second that a redirector would only redirect the results of Nico's roleclaim but still let Mastina choose if she wanted her own role seen or not.

Other than that, I feel like one of JJH and Jingle is scum, but not both and past that... I really don't know. There's too many slots in this game that just aren't doing anything right now.

However, we do have a few townclears to work with: Firebringer and Adalbert Steiner (Kuroi slot). Granted, neither of them are doing anything, but I hope they get replaced out for people who are actually going to help or step up to the plate. You're also almost definitely town since you have an ability that lets you win gladiates, which, if I'm understanding this right, would be 100% useless on scum since they win gladaites against her anyways.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: NicoRobin

If she and NSG aren't aligned with each other, then I don't see any reason to keep her around. Worst case scenario is this flips town and we lynch NSG tomorrow anyways, but if there's garaunteed 1 scum in these two slots then we might as well get started with the scummier one.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: NicoRobin

If she and NSG aren't aligned with each other, then I don't see any reason to keep her around. Worst case scenario is this flips town and we lynch NSG tomorrow anyways, but if there's garaunteed 1 scum in these two slots then we might as well get started with the scummier one.

I guess one of them could also be indie but I feel like if they were town-friendly indies they would've claimed it by now.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: NicoRobin

If she and NSG aren't aligned with each other, then I don't see any reason to keep her around. Worst case scenario is this flips town and we lynch NSG tomorrow anyways, but if there's garaunteed 1 scum in these two slots then we might as well get started with the scummier one.

I guess one of them could also be indie but I feel like if they were town-friendly indies they would've claimed it by now.

So why is jjh town exactly? For defending scum to the death? Because either he is scum or he is a self-centered idiot, and in both cases he needs to die before he dooms us.

I don't super want to directly ask every single player for their top reads but I really do want everyone to give either a reads list or at least their top 5, i.e. @Lady Angel

-rh

The only player I'm feeling really sure on right now is NicoRobin, I don't get why Mastina would go out of her way to protect an easy mis/no (only if town) lynch and scum have definitely been bussing each other this game, so I could definitely see Nico going for it like this. I also think, in terms of role usage, Nico did successfully target Mastina the day she said and went ballistic because she didn't want to out Mastina for... some reason. I don't believe for a second that a redirector would only redirect the results of Nico's roleclaim but still let Mastina choose if she wanted her own role seen or not.

Other than that,

I feel like one of JJH and Jingle is scum

, but not both and past that... I really don't know. There's too many slots in this game that just aren't doing anything right now.

However, we do have a few townclears to work with: Firebringer and Adalbert Steiner (Kuroi slot). Granted, neither of them are doing anything, but I hope they get replaced out for people who are actually going to help or step up to the plate. You're also almost definitely town since you have an ability that lets you win gladiates, which, if I'm understanding this right, would be 100% useless on scum since they win gladaites against her anyways.

Should I make it in Red next time so you don't miss it?

And you, you too were all like 'fearmongering, fearmongering'. Where is my fearmongering now, huh? Where is it?

You can fearmonger and be right. You were right, but the reason nobody listened to you was because the way you presented your arguments was not condusive to getting people to listen.
te="In post 6158, NicoRobin"]This all is a farce, isn't it.

You are scumreading a player who called you out on you bs multiple times. You want to get rid of me because I dared to do so, admit it.[/quote]
I am scumreading you because you have acted scummy for this entire game. You've done nothing this entire game but scream for Mastina's head and trying to drag everyone who goes against you into a conspiracy. News flash: the world is not out for your head. We're all trying to play the game, same as you. We aren't going to have the same opinions, and that's fine, but when your arguments boil down to this, you're going to get nothing done.

You wouldn't have lynched her. Not with JJH and LA insisting to keep her alive further.

Either way, you are scum with her, JJH and Porkens, and I am not arguing with scum.

Spoiler:

Is there any specific aspect of their play or is there anything else in particular that makes this scum instead of bad? Do you have any reason to suspect that either of them specifically would be prone to reevaluating?

I haven't played with either of them so until I learn otherwise I expect them to be rational.

Your pushes have been the driving force. The two big ones I can remember are Firebringer and NR, both over things that have more to do with being bad than being scum.

Your push on NR boils down to she's being inconsistent and erratic with her role. You've done very little (if anything) to explain why that's more likely to be scum than derptown.
Your push on Firebringer is similar, in that it's very surface level. You're clearly aware of his push on mastina, but not enough to realize that it is in fact a policy lynch push. Something that should be immediately obvious to anyone actually trying to read his alignment.

Of course, both of those stances are correct, but you've done very little to show why they're scum because of them. NR IS being weird about her role. Fire IS tunneling mastina. But that's as far as you get. Additionally despite having those stances, you're far from the most vocal proponent of either case (JJH for Nico, Mastina for Fire), so you're unlikely to suffer much blowback should they flip town.

Also, mastina thinks you're scum, I haven't seen a single post by you that makes me feel the townvibes, and I have a fairly quickly dwindling PoE pool.

The thing that pushes NR and Firebringer from bad/annoyed town to scum for me. Within the spam of a few days we've seen a scum effectively suicide to try and kill her, one of the people she gladiated flipping town making her role soft-confirmed, and a role cop effectively confirm her role. And despite this, we've seen Nico ramp it up even more to what basically amounts to fearmongering, and Firebringer replace out (although I have a hunch that this is to do with Mastina's role, I think it was Shoshin's entrance that pushed him over the edge, so this isn't as solid, but that's why NR is my top scumread). I feel like by this point someone playing to a town wincon would stop, re-evaluate, and see if it was still worth it or not as opposed to just keep going with what they're currently doing it.

@NR what do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

Really? You scumread me for being unable to re-evaluate when jingle and jjh refuse to re-evaluate and consider the possibility she could be scum?

Because as much as you think she is town, no one is 100 % town, and yet Jingle and jjh treat her like she is 100% town based on flimsy evidence at best.

Because Jingle (possible JJH as well, but I specifically remember Jingle) actually

has

, and has mentioned it to you several times which you seem to have conveniently forgotten because you want people to vote her, not "consider the possibility". And I'd hardly call a cop claim that confirms her role to be one of Loyal or Disloyal (both of which produce clears

and can and should be abused by the town considering the town as a whole, including Mastina, agrees that Mastina doesn't live to the endgame)

, one of her targets flipping town, and scum self-destructing just to try and kill her "flimsy evidence" at this point.

Now, once again: What do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

Is there any specific aspect of their play or is there anything else in particular that makes this scum instead of bad? Do you have any reason to suspect that either of them specifically would be prone to reevaluating?

I haven't played with either of them so until I learn otherwise I expect them to be rational.

Your pushes have been the driving force. The two big ones I can remember are Firebringer and NR, both over things that have more to do with being bad than being scum.

Your push on NR boils down to she's being inconsistent and erratic with her role. You've done very little (if anything) to explain why that's more likely to be scum than derptown.
Your push on Firebringer is similar, in that it's very surface level. You're clearly aware of his push on mastina, but not enough to realize that it is in fact a policy lynch push. Something that should be immediately obvious to anyone actually trying to read his alignment.

Of course, both of those stances are correct, but you've done very little to show why they're scum because of them. NR IS being weird about her role. Fire IS tunneling mastina. But that's as far as you get. Additionally despite having those stances, you're far from the most vocal proponent of either case (JJH for Nico, Mastina for Fire), so you're unlikely to suffer much blowback should they flip town.

Also, mastina thinks you're scum, I haven't seen a single post by you that makes me feel the townvibes, and I have a fairly quickly dwindling PoE pool.

The thing that pushes NR and Firebringer from bad/annoyed town to scum for me. Within the spam of a few days we've seen a scum effectively suicide to try and kill her, one of the people she gladiated flipping town making her role soft-confirmed, and a role cop effectively confirm her role. And despite this, we've seen Nico ramp it up even more to what basically amounts to fearmongering, and Firebringer replace out (although I have a hunch that this is to do with Mastina's role, I think it was Shoshin's entrance that pushed him over the edge, so this isn't as solid, but that's why NR is my top scumread). I feel like by this point someone playing to a town wincon would stop, re-evaluate, and see if it was still worth it or not as opposed to just keep going with what they're currently doing it.

@NR what do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

Really? You scumread me for being unable to re-evaluate when jingle and jjh refuse to re-evaluate and consider the possibility she could be scum?

Because as much as you think she is town, no one is 100 % town, and yet Jingle and jjh treat her like she is 100% town based on flimsy evidence at best.

Because Jingle (possible JJH as well, but I specifically remember Jingle) actually

has

, and has mentioned it to you several times which you seem to have conveniently forgotten because you want people to vote her, not "consider the possibility". And I'd hardly call a cop claim that confirms her role to be one of Loyal or Disloyal (both of which produce clears and can and should be abused by the town considering the town as a whole, including Mastina, agrees that Mastina doesn't live to the endgame), one of her targets flipping town, and scum self-destructing just to try and kill her "flimsy evidence" at this point.

Now, once again: What do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

And furthermore, when exactly do you plan to lynch her? You say you won't let her live until the endgame, but your actions say otherwise.

In case you haven't noticed yet, there's 18 players left in the game and at absolute most 5 scum left. We're nowhere near lylo, and as long as we lynch her before then, we're fine.

That does not mean right now, since there's still very valid use of the role left.[/quote]

No. You either lynch her now, or she'll talk her way out of it when/if you do decide she needs to go. Trust me on this.

No, she's already admitted as early as day 1 that she knew she wouldn't survive to the endgame with this role, and that it had to happen to confirm her targets.

You're blatantly fearmongering because you know her role is insane if it's town, and you aren't town.

What do you think of Creature's cop claim on Mastina? I should not have to have asked this five times in five posts you've directly quoted.

All of these are posts that you yoruself quoted. At this point I can't tell if you're actually reading my posts or not...

It's also really convenient how everyone who didn't agree with you is magically scum, huh? It's almost like you don't really have a way out of what's being said about you.

Don't vote NSG today, that slot resolves on Nico's flip.

[Lady Angel]

Meme Men, would targeting Firebringer/Adalbert Steiner + Another player be functionally the same as a regular cop with your role?

If it is, could you use your role like that tonight, please? Then you could clear/damn people a lot quicker.

[Lady Angel]

So Mr parity cop, why is there only 1 result? And how come you were unaware that there have been 4 nights so far?

Our ability only became available after someone fixed our pinball machine

we chose NSG+Nico because having a "same alignment" on both had the potential of giving us a second guilty if we flipped the first, this way we have to settle for a townclear after we flip red

-rh

Is the Sora + Shiro thing a part of your role or something you have as a Hydra?

And if it is part of your role, what's your flavour?

[Lady Angel]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

[Lady Angel]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

[Lady Angel]

So Mr parity cop, why is there only 1 result? And how come you were unaware that there have been 4 nights so far?

Our ability only became available after someone fixed our pinball machine

we chose NSG+Nico because having a "same alignment" on both had the potential of giving us a second guilty if we flipped the first, this way we have to settle for a townclear after we flip red

-rh

Is the Sora + Shiro thing a part of your role or something you have as a Hydra?

And if it is part of your role, what's your flavour?

You missed this as well, Meme Men.

[Lady Angel]

You missed this as well, Meme Men.

I think that question is contextually obvious given the names are included in vote counts, and I'm not sure why you would assume the flavor would be different

-rh

Oh no, this question's a two-parter.

If your flavour's a hydra of the two people that originally created it, how does a pinball machine fit into it?

[Lady Angel]

And also because people will call my case fake and say that I am 'fearmongering' and stuff, so I'll not bother.

How hard would it be to make a case on NSG, anyways? If you are town, then she has to be scum if Meme Men is telling the truth, correct? Convince us why you should stay alive over NSG or why Meme Men is lying, if you think that's more likely.

[Lady Angel]

You got parity copped and your response to that has been to post less and doing exactly the same things as you were doing that got you parity copped and then blame the people voting you for voting you because you've been scummy with a bad response to being copped.

I don't see how following a parity cop equates to "giving up on reason" when said cop gave a clear answer and your response to it hasn't been towny.

[Lady Angel]

You got parity copped and your response to that has been to post less and doing exactly the same things as you were doing that got you parity copped and then blame the people voting you for voting you because you've been scummy with a bad response to being copped.

I don't see how following a parity cop equates to "giving up on reason" when said cop gave a clear answer and your response to it hasn't been towny.

Furthermore, you refused to follow Creature when he claimed his guilty, and yet you are willing to follow the parity cop's results now. Why is that?

Oh, yeah, because they align with your pre-determined viewpoints.

1. We had a fake guilty yesterday, so I was pre-emptively suspicious.
2. Creature's claim was quite literally that Mastina's role had four As in her name or something like that. That is in no way, shape, or form a guilty and the only reason you can call it such is because of hindsight bias. Hell, my own role name has four As in it - am I scum, too?
3. Don't act like I'm conveniently deciding to follow the cop to get rid of you now when I've been on you since day 2.
4. I asked Meme Men questions about his role and would've been more than willing to switch or jump ship had I decided he was faking it.
5. Given the information we have, Meme Men is more likely to be town than Creature.

And are you really suggesting a day redirector to go along with Meme Men's Day Parity cop, that he didn't even foreshadow before today? And wouldn't a redirector explicitly change the names of the people he originally targeted to the people he got redirected too?

Creature's guilty wasn't a guilty for the reasons I pointed out

And MM's guilty isn't a guilty because redirector.

Nah, extremely unlikely

So why is Creature's guilty fake because of redirector and MM's ability isn't, eh?

Creature's guilty was fake because it quite literally told us nothing alignment indicative.

[Lady Angel]

I mean sure. Like its equally plausible that he's wrong town and scum that hard defended his buddy. You could argue he's null. At some point i need to re iso him b/c I can't remember anything he's done besides defend Mastina.

Yeah it looks really, really bad on him. I'm not buying the side that people say "oh but he was just fooled by mastina, that's all." Nope.
That along with the no lynch vote on eod 4? That's also suspect of jjh.

And nero, you're correct, we are a doublevoter that auto wins any gladiate and we can parity cop check people. Please no one ask us why rc created this role lol.

-----------

Anyway, so here we have exhibit A, nicorobin, saying on n3 she got redirected so our guilty must not be trusted. Funnily enough, vecna or whoever told us it's actually d5 now so our investigation was on n4, the night we were repaired. Her attempt to discredit us , that alone is alarmingly scummy enough. N3 she or jingle claimed she was redirected, but we checked on n4 according to those who have better memory than I.
Oh and Did I already mention nico thought jjh's claim was less believable than vecna's , for some reason?


We also have LA saying we're scum, and somehow vecna the 3-shot jk believes nero is scum .
LA could be scum, but that's nothing new.

Not sure why shoshin thought we were scum and now doesn't think we are, didn't see explanation for the leap.

-LH

I don't think I ever said you were scum? I was suspicious about your role because a doublevoting parity cop who wins gladiates is weird, but you explained it well enough that I'd believe it. I even more or less called you town in my bulleted list to Creature, and called you town due to your role and Mastina's being very unlikely to be on the same team.

Where'd you think I said you were scum?

[Lady Angel]

2. Creature's claim was quite literally that Mastina's role had four As in her name or something like that. That is in no way, shape, or form a guilty and the only reason you can call it such is because of hindsight bias. Hell, my own role name has four As in it - am I scum, too?

mastina had four As in role name and one A in flavor.

Also does your role have four As?

So mine's the near opposite after checking the role PM - one A in role name and three As in flavour, for four total.

If you were to cop that, it would tell you nothing alignment-indicative, just that my role name has four As in it overall.

[Lady Angel]

So mine's the near opposite after checking the role PM - one A in role name and three As in flavour, for four total.

I got 1 in role name and 1 in flavor :/

For me?

[Lady Angel]

So mine's the near opposite after checking the role PM - one A in role name and three As in flavour, for four total.

I got 1 in role name and 1 in flavor :/

For me?

Yep

'Dreaming God, Dreamer of Dreams'
'Dreaming God'

I don't think you'd lie about this considering your result on Mastina was true, but it is a possibility. This does point towards a redirector/busdriver, but at this point there's... three? Five? slots that haven't claimed? We're running out of slots to actually have roles in.

[Lady Angel]

Firebringer - Neighborizor who gives his neighbor the ability to track/watch/voyeur 1 shot each until all used.
Adelbert Steiner - Self Resurrector (No Flip).

Nicorobin - Triplevoter/Tracker, target's choice. (Target's choice is to tell her role, confirmed by mastina/me/Porkens)
Jingle- Yo, been doing the pizza thing. Didn't really hide it.
Vecna- Loud? Jailkeeper with a PR, reflexive fruit vendor (musical flavor IIRC)
Shoshin- Delayed entrance bg
Creature- Flavor Cop (Receives incomplete/useless results)
Meme Men- Pinball Machine Doublevoter

Lady Angel -

Dreaming God

jjh927- Vote Freezer 1 Shot Deathproof

Invisibility (Cannot have acted last night, was absent for entire phase.)
Aristophanes (Claimed to have not acted last night for one of the reasons given in the PR Roleblocker pm)

Porkens (Refused to give role to NR N1)
Gamma Emerald
Nero Cain

(2-4 As in his role name somewhere?)

Whemestar
Northsidegal


Abilities we know exist but cannot place:
Roleblocker who causes PRs about the roleblock lasting one day.
Babysitter who appears to be treating their role as a vig shot.

Abilities that are likely to exist but we cannot place:

Busdriver/Redirector

I actually forgot about Adalbert's for a while, but the rest of these are from memory. I may have forgotten somebody.

Bumping this, my own edits in italics.

Assuming the busdriver/redirector exists, we have five slots to put three roles in.

Once again assuming the busdriver/redirector exists and that Creature isn't faking, that means one of me/creature and Nico is lying about getting redirected as well. Food for thought concerning the Nico/NSG situation.

Meme Men - Does your pinball machine thing let you target people during the day? If so, I can't see a redirector working on him, right?
RC - what are the chances Invisibility gets modkilled during this day phase?

lady. What do you think of my JJ iso analysis?

I think the overall analysis is solid. I don't really buy into the random vote hopping bit fully since a lot of it took place between day 1 and early day 2, so his reads weren't going to be fully formed yet. Him defending Mastina hard is NAI considering that it could either be town trying to defend a very useful role or scum playing into Mastina/Varsoon theatrics(« might Tinfoil hat this a bit more later, but the gist is that if the scumteam's plan was to kill off Mastina with Varsoon's role, then logically Varsoon could've bussed one of JJH/Jingle and attempted to coast from there). Additionally, I feel like he's gotten more towny over the course of the game as his reads have gotten more focused.

I would put him as the scum of him/Jingle as of right now, but it's a low scumread for me at the minute.

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:

Can't tell if he actually just used it or not, but doing this to be safe. And JJ, please stop using this ability if you're town - it has no benefit whatsoever.

[Lady Angel]

If any role killed Skygazer it'd probably be Shoshin's role, given her entrance timing. I'd have to look back through the thread but the flavour on Shoshin's entrance might be indicative?

[Lady Angel]

If any role killed Skygazer it'd probably be Shoshin's role, given her entrance timing. I'd have to look back through the thread but the flavour on Shoshin's entrance might be indicative?

"The scumteam of Labyrinth Mafia quake in fear, for Shoshin has entered the game'

This doesn't really tell us anything, but something about this situation's still nagging me.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: NicoRobin

Lynch nico > Lynch NSG (if Nico flips town) / see what Meme's next result is (if scum). I would like to see him cop myself and Creature tonight to resolve the reason his result doesn't match up with my role, but if that doesn't happen that's fine.

[Lady Angel]

Votecount 5.04

jingle (1) : nero
nico (6) : jjh, nsg, creat, fb, jingle, lady

Not Voting: Aristophanes, Nicorobin, Whemestar, profi, Gamma Emerald, Porkens, Shiro, Sora, Vecna, Shoshin

With 17 alive it's 9 to lynch.

The day will end on Dec 11/12

---------
vecna - 3-shot jk, shos - bg, profi/alde/kuroi - able to resurrect & conf town, firebringer - neighbor & conf town, nicorobin - tracker triplevoter, us - parity cop doublevoter, nero/jingle/LA/nsg/aris/wheme/GE/pork - refused to claim

Nvm I miscounted, still only 6 votes. Point still stands though about nico getting us a reads list.

-LH

I claimed Dreaming God, which is why I wanted you to cop me and Creature tonight. If you get a same alignment result, that should also soft confirm redirector.

And Jingle, wouldn't RC at least have told us that Adalbert got killed last night? From what I understand, he resurrects himself when he dies with no flip, which implies that he at least dies. But I've never played with a self-resurrector role, so I could very easily be wrong.

[Lady Angel]

wait a minute. What even is a dreaming god??

-LH

Essentially, I'm given a list of dreams (With names like "Dream of Happiness" or something) and on night 1 I can pick one. I'm not told what the dreams do, either. Depending on the dream, I can influence the game state passively without realizing it, although I haven't noticed anything whatsoever that could be attributed to the dream I had N1.

[Lady Angel]

And NSG said it way better than I could've.

I had a "Dream of Providence" Night 1, if anyone else wants to speculate.

[Lady Angel]

I gave up trying to put a santa hat on mine so I did a christmasy recolour instead.

[Lady Angel]

Waiting for more people to vote her.

[Lady Angel]

Mastina was also possibly purposedly stalling the game for weeks to kill discussion that wasn't focussed on her to keep her partners safer (Varsoon nonwithstanding).

Nero, it was JJH leading the Nico train.

[Lady Angel]

If I had to guess, I'd say she wasn't going to gladiate anyone but Varsoon on day 2, since they were trying so hard to bus her, which is probably why she didn't gladiate Jingle.

Nico, on the other hand, she defended for days.

[Lady Angel]

Is there anything we can even gain from today anymore? Nico, Meme, and NSG have all vanished, and it's not like we have to plan out tomorrow since regardless of what Nico flips we have a plan to go off of.

[Lady Angel]

My role was N1 only, and I used it.

[Lady Angel]

Is there anything we can even gain from today anymore? Nico, Meme, and NSG have all vanished, and it's not like we have to plan out tomorrow since regardless of what Nico flips we have a plan to go off of.

how have i "vanished"?

You stopped posting for 5 pages.

[Lady Angel]

This might help:

Firebringer - Neighborizor who gives his neighbor the ability to track/watch/voyeur 1 shot each until all used.
Adelbert Steiner - Self Resurrector (No Flip).

Nicorobin - Triplevoter/Tracker, target's choice. (Target's choice is to tell her role, confirmed by mastina/me/Porkens)
Jingle- Yo, been doing the pizza thing. Didn't really hide it.
Vecna- Loud? Jailkeeper with a PR, reflexive fruit vendor (musical flavor IIRC)
Shoshin- Delayed entrance bg
Creature- Flavor Cop (Receives incomplete/useless results)
Meme Men- Pinball Machine Doublevoter

Lady Angel - Dreaming God
jjh927- Vote Freezer 1 Shot Deathproof

Invisibility (Cannot have acted last night, was absent for entire phase.)
Aristophanes (Claimed to have not acted last night for one of the reasons given in the PR Roleblocker pm)

Porkens (Refused to give role to NR N1)
Gamma Emerald
Nero Cain
Whemestar
Northsidegal


Abilities we know exist but cannot place:
Roleblocker who causes PRs about the roleblock lasting one day.
Babysitter who appears to be treating their role as a vig shot.

Abilities that may exist but we cannot place:
Redirector/Busdriver (Would've had to target Nico on Night 2 and Creature on Night 4)

I actually forgot about Adalbert's for a while, but the rest of these are from memory. I may have forgotten somebody.

Fixed it, you grabbed the old one.

[Lady Angel]

Chick's death flavour matches up exactly with Vaxkiller's, so the chances of her having been modkilled are extremely slim.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Porkens

I'd believe a lot of stuff, but I don't believe both you and Jingle would've managed to miss the fact that NR's role asks for both your role and target, so why didn't one of you tell us?

I'm voting you over Jingle because your meme vote was especially bad yesterday.

[Lady Angel]

NicoRobin has been lynched! She was

NicoRobin, Scum Demander of Action

.

Spoiler: NicoRobin

Is it done yet?

Welcome, NicoRobin! You are NicoRobin, Scum Demander of Action. You are a Conditional Rolecopping Tracker Conditional Triplevoter.



Make the damn uPick! (Conditional Role Cop Tracker):

Each night you may petition one player to tell you their night action and target

. If they choose to do so, you will learn their night action and target.
You Promised! (Conditional Triplevoter): If not, your vote will become triply effective against them.

You win when the Town have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Night 5 has begn and will end about this time on the 8th.

The underlined line is what I'm referring to. Just based on how the english language works it gives off the impression that it asked for both. The fact that scum have seemed to be after each other's throats all game also means that I wouldn't put it above NR to target her team if someone else coordinated it.

I'm sticking by my original claim: "Dreaming God, Dreamer of Dreams" with "Dreaming God" as the role name. I'm a 1-shot Dreaming God who could only act night 1. I have no reason to lie about any of this.

My reads right now are:

A - Mechanically cleared + myself:
10) Profii - Confirmed by Mastina
15) Lady Angel

B - Likely Town:
2)

Northsidegal

- Cannot be aligned with NR. NR flipped scum. While there doesn't appear to be a serial killer in this setup, there might be a possible other indie who isn't town-aligned. Not worth looking into unless we lynch all the scum and the game doesn't end.
1) The MEME Men - See above. Scum probably doesn't hard bus twice and Invisibility's role is unlikely to power scum.
23) Shoshin - Town unless it's a seven scum setup, which we can find out about later. If we lynch six scum and the game doesn't end she's mechanically not town.
20) Creature - Town by play, and I believe his role, especially since outside of me it's been accurate.
21) jjh927 - Likely not scum with NR.
14) Vecna - Gut feeling, and I really doubt a role with that obvious and that annoying of a PR is scum.

C - Null/people of interest:
18) Jingle - I townread his play, but I can't shake the feeling that the varsoon situation involved him somehow, plus the thing with NR's role.
19)

Nero Cain

- I have no idea how to read Nero.
6)

Gamma Emerald

- I have no idea how to read Gamma.
12)

Porkens

- Scummy play mostly, the vote for Meme Men was really bad, and the thing with NR's role. However, he was confirmed to be targeted by NR which makes me question my read here slightly.

D - Scumreads
22)

Aristophanes

- has done nothing of note and contributed very little at all to scumhunting. Seems to mostly be trying to appear posting without actually doing anything.

VOTE: Aristophanes

I guess I'll lynch from the bottom up?

I've underlined all the unclaimed players, which in them we have to fit:

Loud Babysitter - Possibly doesn't exist, only Jingle and NR have mentioned being targeted by it.
Vig or possibly SK that smites people for inactivity - confirmed to exist. May possibly be connected to Shoshin's role but that's just me tinfoiling.
Nihilism Roleblocker that prevents them from talking about it right after - Likely to exist. Has targeted Aristophanes, Meme Men, and Jingle so far. Possibly more that I'm missing. Likely does not belong to Aristophanes.
Redirector - Confirmed to exist if Creature isn't lying, which seems likely. NR's result on Mastina/Jingle/JJH was a disaster and seems unlikely to have been influenced by it, considering she tried to blame a redirector on Meme and Creature later, making it seem like her usage previously was an excuse.

@Meme, would you have happened to cop anyone last night?

[Lady Angel]

Loud Babysitter - Possibly doesn't exist, only Jingle and NR have mentioned being targeted by it.
Vig or possibly SK that smites people for inactivity - confirmed to exist. May possibly be connected to Shoshin's role but that's just me tinfoiling.

I inspected your meta and saw your town play in Anonymous Ghost's game. The blatant fact that you're vastly different here, is extremely alarming.

Also, vig/sk smiting people for inactivity? That makes no sense as wheme wasn't even that inactive yesterday ??
I do agree that Loud Baby probably doesn't exist though...unfortunately I don't know how that would be AI for jingle here...


-LH

I'm completely useless in the early game, with that game being the extreme to that (plus, school meant I couldn't read my role PM that game, which was a disaster). If you check games where I live past the first few days, I usually develop into this, with this game being the best example as it's the longest game I've been in day-wise.

"Smited for Inactivity" is kill flavour. Go read Wheme's kill flavour and pair it against Invisibility's, who was actually modkilled.

[Lady Angel]

Do we want a proper fullclaim from Lady Angel?

I kinda do tbh

-rh

"Dreaming God, Dreamer of Dreams" with "Dreaming God" as the role name. I'm a 1-shot Dreaming God who could only act night 1.

or did she say what the night 1 action was yet?

-rh

I dreamt a "dream of providence" night 1. I went through RC's ISO and pulled anything suspicious out of it to see if my dream could've caused it, and:

Guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me?

No. I am the one who knocks.

This seems unlikely given the name of the dream I had.

05/20/2005

The school day done, the boy bolted out of the building, ran to his bike, and took off. It was a brisk day, but the sun was shining and the grass was green. The blue bike lock hung around his neck as he speeded for home. He biked with a sense of urgency, he had something at home to get back to. It was a short distance home, and he promptly parked his bike in the garage, closed it, and made his way inside. He ran to his toys, not realizing that he had raced towards what he had actually been running from

.

This seems to be the most likely candidate given the bizarreness of it all and the fact that it's connected to nothing else, but it still doesn't fit in with the them of providence much at all.

The excitement that was building has dulled to a lull as action continues to not happen.
No one has died!

(Haven't been home to catch up on aforementioned non-essential VCs, it will be done ASAP)

This also seems possible, but unlikely given how a dreaming god usually acts.

My current theory is that I would've caused a no lynch (I had four dreams to choose from, this was the lowest-risk one), which didn't happen because of Mastina anyways. It's possible I caused the no kill, but not likely, or the random timestamped paragraph, but if all my ability did was that I would be slightly disappointed.

[Lady Angel]

The only unclaimed slots in the game right now or Sheep/Porkens and NSG, so the roleblocker has to be in there unless somebody is lying? The only unproven role is Shoshin's right now.

I have serious doubts in it being NSG since the roleblocker's been very scummy.

Also, there isn't a redirector.

[Lady Angel]

Does your role involve Nihilism?

[Lady Angel]

I'm really hoping Sheep's the roleblocker because if NSG's the roleblocker we have to rethink basically everything

[Lady Angel]

can someone let me know what the other claims/actions have been

1) The MEME Men - Gated Parity Cop that can doublevote and wins gladiates. Strongly likely town due to hitting scum with a parity cop and the role that enabled his also being town.
2) Northsidegal - Unclaimed, is currently V/LA so we may be waiting on it for a bit. Confirmed not scum by the above Parity cop.
6) Gamma Emerald - Loud Babysitter, has been using his role more like a vig.
10) Profii - Flipless self-resurrector that can make one message in the thread at night. Confirmed Town.
12) Sheepsaysmeep - Flipless VT who sends people messages at night.
14) Vecna - Loud Jailkeeper who reflexively fruit vendors people.
15) Lady Angel - One-shot Dreaming God who could only dream night 1.
18) Jingle - Soft Tracker. Currently can watcher, tracker, and voyeur people thanks to Firebringer. (Actually, Jingle, since Firebringer is dead do you still have access to that?)
19) Nero Cain - Activity Vig
20) Creature - Rolecop that finds out the number of As in a person's name.
21) jjh927 - 1-Shot Deathproof, 1-Shot Vote Freezer
22) Aristophanes - Hider
23) Shoshin - Delayed Entrance Bodyguard.

And for the dead roles:
17) Wh4t - Desperado, shot Vaxkiller day 1 and died for it.
16) Vaxkiller - Activity Delayer, was shot night 1 due to being confirmed town.
9) Varsoon - Role locked the thread and gave people 48 hours to vote privately. Was scum and got lynched attempting a bus.
7) Chickadee - Song Vendor.
8) Skygazer - Ascetic? I can't really remember.
5) Mastina - Scum Disloyal Gladiator. Probably close to 90% of the discussion revolved around her up until she got lynched. Targeted Profii's slot, Chickadee, and Firebringer, failed all three of them, confirming all three of them.
11) Invisibility - Pinball Machine Fixer, hit Meme Men to give him the parity cop.
4) Nicorobin - Conditional Rolecop/Tracker or triplevoter. Could ask people for their role name and target and if they said no, she could triplevote them.
3) Firebringer - Neighbourizer who gives the people he neighbours with 1-shot tracker, watcher, and voyeur abilities.
13) Whemestar - 1-Shot Ninja, 1-Shot Strongman, something else I'm forgetting.

I'll wait for NSG to claim, but Sheep's role is basically the same as Profii's and that kind of screams lie to me.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Sheep

Perhaps he needs some pressure?

[Lady Angel]

But what if the flavor is Scummy McScummerstein, neighborhood mafiate?

I dare you to submit this if RC hosts one of these again.

[Lady Angel]

Hey Nero, how does your role choose who to kill?

[Lady Angel]

Could you shoot Sheep tonight, then?

Does anyone have issue with lynching Aristophanes and shooting Sheep, in general?

[Lady Angel]

Missing roles: Roleblocker -> confirmed to exist.
Redirection role?
Profii needs to corroborate loud actions.

Why must there be an indepenent roleblocker? It can't be Vecna's jailkeeper? Has Profii corroborated anything yet?

Is there any reason to believe scum have both roleblocker/redirector, or could it be a single player with both abilities?

There's an ability out there that's so far targeted Aristophanes, Jingle, and Meme Men that makes people to nihilistic to act and unable to talk about it the next day. I feel like three people is a bit too much for it to be a lie.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Aristophanes

Vig sheep tonight?

[Lady Angel]

Why would Scum!Jingle fake a mod result to initiate a 1v1 outside of lylo when he's a fairly townread player?

And why against you?

[Lady Angel]

I think the best play here is lynch Aristophanes, shoot Jingle/Sheep, lynch Jingle/Sheep.

If that doesn't end the game I'll be pretty surprised.

[Lady Angel]

If you were to hide behind me, have Gamma babysit me, and then have Nero shoot Gamma, would that kill all three of us?

[Lady Angel]

I feel like there's three decent ideas here:

- Lynch Aristophanes, shoot Sheep, Lynch Jingle. Jingle's not getting activity vigged at this point and if Aristophanes actually is the Nihilism blocker that prevents any sort of scum-killing-the-vig shenanigans and keeps Nero alive as long as one of our not-Vecna protectives is on him for the night. If Aristophanes isn't the Nihilism blocker, shooting Sheep gets tricky since there isn't a town roleblocker that doesn't protect their targets, and the blocker's probably Sheep then. I'd rather not trade if possible, we'll probably still need Nero around for a while.

- Lynch Jingle, if it works do what I mention in the above post and kill off three null slots. This doesn't hit scum unless Aristophanes is scum, but it does narrow down the mislynch pool quite a lot and at that point if we magically find a scum in there we lynch Sheep the next day. If Aristophanes doesn't die, lynch him the next day and then deal with Sheep.

- Lynch Sheep, do the babysitter plan, and then lynch Jingle. This relies on Sheep being the roleblocker, but if he is we give Nero free reign for as long as we can keep protecting him. This is probably the lowest-risk plan and the most likely one to end the game succesfully, as any plan involving Nero involves making sure the roleblocker can't target Nero. However, if sheep is flipless and doesn't flip alignment either we effectively gained nothing.

I'd also like to ask NSG not to act the next night, please, in any of these.

I'll leave it up to town to decide which one, but I'm confident in saying these are the way to go to clear out the null/scum slots.

Currently, the only slots without confirmed effects are myself, Aristophanes, Shoshin (confirmed Delayed entrance, not bodyguard), Sheep (confirmed to reflexively(?) send out messages), NSG, and possibly Gamma if Jingle flips scum, because then Gamma's only been confirmed by scum.

This doesn't account for anyone hiding part of their claim, obviously.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Jingle

This should resolve the most 1v1s?

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Aristophanes

I'll probably flipflop on this a bunch. Jingle resolves the most, Ari has a higher chance of hitting scum, Sheep is also probably scum, etc

I also think that the following players should definitely not live to lylo under any circumstances:
- Aristophanes
- Jingle
- Sheep
- Vecna

[Lady Angel]

prodge, sorry

I legitimately have nothing left to add this day phase

[Lady Angel]

Good game, everyone. It was fun playing with you all, and for most of you it was the first time, too. Nice meeting everyone!

[Lady Angel]

I've also got a game in the queue, featuring more normal mechanics here: viewtopic.php?p=10605883#p10605883

I'd appreciate if you joined it.

Some other notes:
- While in hindsight my idea of dumping Mastina before lylo/mylo was bad, I think it was more bad because her role and determination to wait to the last minute to gladiate people would've killed the game.
- Town overall seemed much stronger this game than scum in terms of roles, with the exception of Mastina (which was unplanned), plus committing to a less optimal strategy that would have really only worked through apathy. Thanks for sticking it out, though.
- Thanks to everyone who replaced in, especially those who replaced into the game during the later stages of the Mastina debacle.
- Of course, thanks to RC for making and hosting this game, and sticking through it despite the delays, player frustration, and seemingly other things. I think most of us had fun despite it all, I know I did.

Lastly, I can't wait to see the roles and other PTs in this game. I'm especially curious to know what my dreams actually did.

[Lady Angel]

I'd appreciate if you joined it.

Are you asking me personally or is this just a general you?

It's an open invitation to anyone!

[Lady Angel]

Hey, a few more days and we can have it as a christmas present, right?

[Lady Angel]

So I might have just missed it, but what did my dreams do?