Murder Riddle III (Solved!)

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Murder Riddle III (Solved!)

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:01 pm

Post by Segaco »

Here to go at it again.
I made it as short as I could, as in the previous two games some said they didn't join because of their length. Perhaps it's not short enough, but do know there was an attempt

Rules

- Characters state things in
Purple Declaration
. All things said in Purple Declaration can be considered to be the truth with the exception of the fact that the culprit may lie.
- Characters who are not the culprit speak the truth and only the truth (**in purple**).
- There is only one culprit.
- A culprit is strictly defined as someone who kills.
- A culprit may lie before murdering.
- A culprit cannot die.
- All statements made in narration are true.
- Accomplices do not exist.
- An accomplice is someone who knowingly aids the culprit in the execution of their plans.
- There is one single master key, initially held by the only servant.
- Only one key exists for every room.
- A room's door can only be locked with its respective key or the master key.
- Anyone may be the culprit.

Characters:


1. Ransu - Visitor (Male)
2. Lacey - Visitor (Female)
3. Northy - Guard (Male)
4. Southy - Guard (Female)
5. Easty - Guard (Male)
6. Westy - Guard (Male)
7. George - Servant (Male)
8. Vangel - Mansion owner (Male)


Maps

First floor:
Image
Second Floor:
Image


Story


After all the hardships lord Vangel had to go through to gather a considerable amount of fortune, he could finally live in peace.
...Actually, he couldn't. He had but one last dream in his life, which was to acquire an item the whole world longed for: The SS Spear, a weapon coated with some of the rarest and most expensive minerals on earth. It is rumoured it used to belong to a god called SS, who used said spear to punish those who opposed him.
Backstory aside, one thing led to another and the weapon ended up on an auction. Naturally, the individuals who had the money put as much as they could to get their hands on the precious spear, but the winner of the auction ended up being Vangel. Of course, it was a lot of cash he had put on something he would probably just dump in his storage, but it was worth it. So he thought.

When he received the spear, he was the happiest man on earth. He decided to invite two dungeons and dragons friends, Ransu and Lacey, who said they wanted to check out the spear. He even hired four guards in order to protect it. His butler George would probably appreciate the extra people, as he would always work alone.

It was October 4th, exactly 5 PM, when the guests arrived. They had some trouble coming because a blizzard had appeared out of nowhere around the mansion's location, but probably due to their desire to see the spear they did not give up and got to the mansion anyway.

The two guests were led into a massive white-painted room, illuminated by some LED lights coming from above. This room had a glass case, which contained the SS spear. They stared at it for a long time, and one even tried to open the glass case's only door, but found that a padlock prevented them from doing so.
Vangel informed the guests that the glass was bullet-proof and the only key to the padlock was with him at all times, so there was no need to worry about someone trying to steal it.

After some time, Vangel headed to the stairs in the corner and went upstairs along with his two guests. They were in his office for around half an hour when one of the invitees, Lacey, excused herself to the bathroom. Luckily, there was a bathroom incorporated to the office, so she just went there. Vangel and Ransu talked to each other for a bit, and when the conversation was over, Vangel decided to check how the food was going. George usually took his time to cook, and with the new guards he may be talking instead of cooking. Food needed to be made in time for the guests. so he couldn't slack off! Like Lacey, he excused himself out, leaving Ransu alone in the office.

As the man walked down his mansion's stairs, his cellphone rang. Just who could it be? He looked at the screen but the caller was calling from a private number. Deciding there was nothing to lose, Vangel accepted the call and put the phone against his ear.


Vangel
: "Yes, hello? Vangel speaking."
???
: "...Consider that spear of yours gone by 11."

And this mysterious caller, whose voice he didn't hear very clearly, hung up. Vangel stood there for a few seconds, confused about that strange event, before checking the time. It was 6 PM.
He had a bad feeling about this.


---

It was 10:55, and everyone was now in position.
"Position for what?", you may be asking yourself. The answer to that is that Vangel had a really bad feeling about the call, and while everyone explored the mansion, he thought of a plan. In the end, he decided to position everyone so it would be impossible for anyone to even try stealing the spear.
The two guests Lacey and Ransu agreed to participate, as they claimed they did not want the spear to be stolen. Those two and lord Vangel himself would stand around the glass case with the spear so they would be able to see anyone entering the room.
The guards would be put in different rooms around the white room to make sure no one got past them. As the four had rather particular names, Vangel decided to use those names to decide where to put them:

- The guard Northy was sent to the Music Room, to make sure no one bursted through the windows.
- The guard Easty was sent to the Storage, to make sure that if someone hid there, they wouldn't get past him.
- The guard Southy was sent to the Entrance, to make sure no one forced their way in.
- The guard Westy was sent to the Lounge, for the same reason as stated above.

As for the butler George... he hadn't even started cooking, so he was now being punished by cooking twice what he was going to cook. In the kitchen, obviously.

...Back to the mystery. As the three stood around the glass case in the gigantic white room, the alarm on Vangel's cellphone went off. It was now 11:00. Seconds passed, with him anxiously waiting for something to happen. He even made sure the key to the padlock was still with him just in case. And to make sure he wouldn't confuse it, left his own room key in his room.

11:01, and no signs of anyone else.
He thought of it being a prank and was about to say so when all the lights on the mansion suddenly went off. The white room did not even have a light switch, so... A power outage, perhaps?
Although he could not see a thing, he focused all his senses to catch
something
. And that's when he started hearing footsteps heading towards him from somewhere. Someone running towards him equals to someone running towards the case. Uh-oh.
He screamed to the other two to not let whoever this was to touch the case, but that did not stop the footsteps from getting closer. The footsteps eventually ceased in front of what Vangel believed was the glass case's door. That thief was at the door!
He tried to run towards them, but a loud sound and a flash of light stopped him right on his tracks.

Bang


A gunshot. Someone fired a gun.
Still, the spear was in risk. He tried to look for the case in the dark and was interrumped by the sound of someone running away. Soon, there was complete silence. Minutes passed until he got used to the dark, and he could finally see a bit. The other two were still in their positions, trying to feel their way in the dark.
He then had a brilliant idea and used his phone's flashlight to be able to see. The first thing he did was look into the glass case, of course... but the spear was nowhere to be seen. He confirmed that the door had a padlock in place, however, so it should have been impossible to have taken it out.
Either way, he had no time to waste! He handed his phone flashlight to Lacey and sent her upstairs to check if everything was okay in the power room. Soon, the lights turned on and Vangel confirmed his suspicions: the spear was no longer in the glass case. He looked around the white room, trying to find the spear, but all he saw was, well, white. He yelled in desperation.

---

The eight were now reunited in the white room, standing around the glass case. Right in front the glass case's door some small pieces of metal and stone were found, but they were mostly ignored.
Vangel held the key he has had since he locked the case with a padlock in his closed palm, and threw it to the floor. It was now useless.


Vangel
: "You all, tell me how the hell that damned rat got in! I thought you were guarding??"
Northy
: "Well, there was nothing suspicious on my end.
No one passed through the Music Room's door.

Easty
: "Same here,
no one passed through the Storage's door.
"
Westy
: "...Nothing on my end,
no one passed through the lounge's door.
"
Southy
: "We must be soulmates, everyone! Because
no one passed through the Entrance's door
, either!"
Vangel
: "
The only way to unlock my padlock was with my key...
Just how...? What about you, George?! Did you see anything?!"
George
: "Of course not.
I was cooking the whole time. I didn't see anything suspicious.
"
Vangel
: "............Upstairs. The culprit came from upstairs!!"

Seeing he had forgotten about the second floor, Vangel ran there. The others in the white room followed. He had expected to see a window wide open, indicator of someone having entered, but was surprised to find all windows locked. Confused, he decided to check out the power room.


Vangel
: "Holy mother of jesus, what happened to the backup generator???"
Lacey
: "
It was like that when I got here.
The power switch was set to off, so I just turned it on."
Vangel
: "So this is why the lights did not come back on after the switch was flipped... The backup generator can give us light for four hours, but if it was destroyed it cannot!!"
Ransu
: "Vangel, if it means anything, do know
I didn't do it...
I mean, I know it's totally unrelated to the lights, but just saying."
Lacey
: "It IS related to the lights, you know. We were together when they were turned off. So
I couldn't have done it
, either."

The rich man was not listening, however. He pondered for a bit, and soon came to a conclusion.


Vangel
: "
All the windows on the second floor are locked
and no one left through the first floor, which means...
That thieving bastard must still be inside the mansion!!
He hid and somehow pulled this cowardly act off!! Go look for him!!!"

In the face of an angry old man, the others couldn't help but comply and scattered off. Vangel decided to take the storage to himself, as that was the most likely place one would hide in his mind.
The storage room was basically a city of boxes, filled with old mannequins, padlocks, clothes, plants, and even a fish tank with dead fish. After several minutes searching, he was sure of it: there was no one hiding here. Dejected, he walked into the white room and was then told something of interest, which made him immediately run to a certain room.


---

Seven people were gathered in the white room around the glass case. Half an hour had passed since the search for a ninth person began, yet no one had been found. They all exchanged information about which rooms they had searched, and they quickly concluded that...


Ransu
: "So only Vangel's office is left...?"
Lacey
"...I would rather not go there, Vangel would get angry... He's scary when he's angry..."
George
: "Agreed, so go check it yourself, Ransu. You're his friend. If I do it he may fire me. He can't fire a friend."
Southy
: "That's true."
Ransu
: "*sigh*, just... Come with me, alright?"

The seven went upstairs to the door. Lacey took hold of the knob, and...


Lacey
: "Huh...?
The door is locked...
?"
Ransu
: "It is the only place left, the thief likely locked himself in. George, do you have a master key?"
George
: "Yes, but you unlock it. Here you go."
Ransu
: "...Alright. ........Uh,
there's a key inserted on the other side of the keyhole.
The key won't fit in."
Westy
: "It can't be helped, then. As we haven't seen signs of our lord, I'm getting worried. Easty, give me a hand."

Easty nodded, and the two men soon started laying on the door, ignoring George's protests. Eventually, the door gave in and the two fell into the room along with the door, the set chain lock breaking off the wall as a result.
The five in the doorway and the two on the floor stared in horror at the body of Vangel, laying face down in the center of the office... in a pool of blood.
Southy quickly ran into the room and checked on the body.


Southy
: "This can't be...
He's dead! A stab to the heart! From behind! An immediate death!
Tragic!"
George
: "Tomorrow was pay day..............."
Northy
: "
There's this wet knife laying next to the body.
"
Ransu
: "There's also a piece of paper under him with a duck drawn on it, but it's probably not important."
Easty
: "Looks like
the window is locked.
Hm..."
Westy
: "And from what I can see
there are no footprints outside in the snow
. The blizzard stopped long ago, so it is impossible for more snow to have covered possible footprints."
Lacey
: "Oh, so
there IS a key on the other side of the keyhole.
You weren't lying."
Ransu
: "Why would I lie? ...But back to the key, it may not even be the key to the room. Try it."

Lacey, who had flipped the door over, turned the key already inserted in the keyhole. It seemed the lock hadn't been broken upon the door being broken down. With everyone watching, the bolt retracted into the door's lock.


Ransu
: "So that settles it, huh...?"
Westy
: "Like hell it does! Lacey, you stood by the door the whole time. Have you seen anyone walk out?"
Lacey
: "
No one has walked out the door since we got in.
"
Westy
: "That means the culprit is hiding in the room! Look for him!"

And so, they looked, but to no avail. Southy looked into the wardrobe but only found clothes and white sheets for the bed. Ransu looked under the bed and found a few dirty magazines. George even looked inside the bathroom.


George
: "
There's no one hiding in here nor the bathroom.
"
Northy
: "Are there any secret passages or stuff like that in the mansion, George?"
George
: "Not that I know of. But if I could I would say
no secret passages exist.
"
Southy
: "Then... How was this done? The door was locked and chained and the window was locked. The key was in the keyhole inside, even! How mysterious! How arcane! How mystifying!"
Easty
: "Not to mention the murder weapon was right by his side, too..."
Lacey
: "But why would he kill himself...?"
Ransu
: "Don't you get it? It's pretty hard to stab yourself in the back, and even if he had, the knife would still be stabbed there. Adding to this, the weapon was also cleaned off! This is a murder!"
Lacey
: "Oh."

---

The seven decided to do the smart thing and stay together in the dining hall to call the police, until George insisted on keep on cooking, Ransu on investigating the locked room more, Lacey on going to the guest room to take a nap, and Southy on playing the piano on the Music Room.
In the end, the police said they couldn't go because the blizzard was still strong where the police were. They would have to wait for the blizzard to move away before even moving out. The seven were advised to stay together and not touch the crime scenes.
Naturally, no one gave a damn. Except for Westy who tried to keep everything in order, but ultimately gave up.


---

As Westy sat on one of the chairs of the game room all alone, he heard the guest room's door be opened behind him. He looked back, and saw someone he couldn't recognize because of the mask, hat and cape they were wearing. That didn't quite matter to him, however. His attention was on what this person was carrying...


Westy
: "Lacey!"

Lacey and the figure ran back into the guest room upon being seen. Easty ran out of the Power Room when he heard his friend scream.


Easty
: "What happened?!"
Westy
: "No time to explain! Someone suspicious is in the Guest Room!"

Seconds after, the two were trying to enter the Guest Room. The door had been locked, however, and the two took their time to break down the door


Westy
: "Lacey, are you okay?!"
Easty
: "I don't see anyone in here other than her...
There's no one hiding here.
Let me check the bathroom... Nope,
no one there either
."
Westy
: "She's just asleep. Thank god. Easty, check on her just in case. I'll check on something else...... Well,
the window is unlocked.
It's just a matter of jumping out, then..... I was expecti-"

Ransu ran into the room before he could finish.


Ransu
: "What's going on?!?! Lacey, you okay?!"
Westy
: "She's fine. Long short story, I saw someone carrying her leave the guest room and then enter again. He seems to have escaped out the window."
Ransu
: "No time to waste, then! Let's go after his trail! .....But.......
there are no footprints on the snow outside...
"
Westy
: "...Oh. ...There it is. Things can't be simple, can they...?"

Soon, the others got into the Guest Room. For no reason in particular, everyone shared their alibis... and in the end, it turned out no one had an one except for George and Northy, who had stayed together in the kitchen.


Ransu
: "First an impossible theft, then an impossible murder, and then an impossible disappearance... Just what is going on here?!"

-------------------------------------------

Let us remove the easiest possiblity of all:
No gaps under doors. No string tricks.
Forget about 'em

Now that you've finished, you have to solve it to get the ending. This is how you play:
- To win the game you must tell me the truth behind all of the mysteries. It does not matter if it wasn't the killer the one who pulled a trick off.
- When stating a theory, it is mandatory for you to use
blue text (#00FFFF)
.
- After you make your theory, I will respond to it either with
red text
to disprove it (anything said in red can be considered to be the truth) or normal text just explaining why it's not correct.

Anyone can join in at any time. Good luck!
Last edited by Segaco on Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:54 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Post Post #3 (isolation #1) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:09 am

Post by Segaco »

In post 1, 2 718281828459 wrote:OK, so some clarifications:
1.
Can the person responsible for the murder, the person responsible for the theft, and the person responsible for the disappearance be the same person? Can they all be different people?

2.
Do we know for sure that there was a real theft? A real disappearance?

3.
Brown = Door, Blue = Window, right?

4.
Can the thief or disappearance person lie? (assuming that those may be different from the killer)
1. Yes, they can all be different people
2. Well, a spear was stolen and some mysterious person vanished from a room. So that's on you
3. Yes, sorry for not making that clear
4. Only the person who killed can lie.
2 718281828459 wrote:Actually,
5. How much technology should we assume these people have?
(I could see, potentially, someone flying drones around.)
Assume the characters are in 2018, so anything we have they have
Last edited by Segaco on Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #5 (isolation #2) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:21 am

Post by Segaco »

Two things:
I fixed a typo and added a purple which had to be added

Purple:
Vangel
: "
The only way to unlock my padlock was with my key...
Just how...? What about you, George?! Did you see anything?!"
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Post Post #7 (isolation #3) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:36 am

Post by Segaco »

A 9th person may or may not exist
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Post Post #12 (isolation #4) » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:26 pm

Post by Segaco »

Save The Dragons wrote:Is there a window ledge under the guest room window? Could you climb onto the roof of the entrance and reenter the building through the front door without contacting the snow on the ground?
To keep things simple, assume that
if you left a room through a window, you would leave footprints in the snow.

2 718281828459 wrote:(oh, and personally, I would have made the guards' names start with N,E,S,W like Nate, Earl, Susan, and Will or something, rather than cheesy names like "Southy". Actually I think Westy might be an actual name...)

Let's just get started. Considering that I am not really sure how much info you want, I just tried to do whatever I could.
Theory 01
Westy is the thief.
At some point before Vangel got everyone in position, Westy entered storage and pocketed a padlock and its associated key.
When the lights went out, Westy went Lounge => Diningroom => Whiteroom. He knew where the box was, shot the padlock, stole the spear, and replaced the padlock with one that looks identical. He then cleaned up most of the mess, but a few fragments remained on the ground.

George is the killer.
Not much here. George lied that there were no secret passages. Being the one who is in the kitchen, he grabbed a knife and some time snuck in to murder Vangel. He then took the key to that room from Vangel's cold, dead body and placed it in the lock. Then George escaped to the kitchen through a secret passage (and as Lacey correctly identified, not through the door).

Southy was the one who tried to kidnap Lacey. She cleverly used her hand to erase her footprints as she stepped, and then re-entered and pretended that she was never missing.


I am really not sure what kind of information you want for the disappearance.
For the disappearance I want to know how this mysterious person left the room. It seems I didn't leave out some pssibilities, though, so allow me strike your theory down

Well, first things first: If Westy was the thief, how did he turn off the lights? He had to be in the second floor and flip the power switch for that to happen.
As for the going from the dining hall to the white room... There's no door that allows that, as shown on the map. The brown thingies are doors, so unless you are suggesting he went through the wall, it's not possible.

As for George's purple, I intended for that to be a red, but I ended up changing my mind. Mind as well say it now before you go off the wrong track:
No secret passages exist.


Finally we get to the disappearance. I doubt our mysterious individual would take their time to hide their footprints after being seen by someone, but to deny it I'll say
had snow been messed with, characters who looked at the snow would have noticed and mentioned so.
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Post Post #16 (isolation #5) » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:28 pm

Post by Segaco »

If you saw the thing I said before the edit, ignore it
Do know you have to post a theory solving the whole thing for me to respond to it, but I'll make an exception this time.
In post 13, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 0, Segaco wrote:
Ransu
: "First an impossible theft, then an impossible murder, and then an impossible disappearance... Just what is going on here?!"
I'm going to start with my theory on the theft.

Theft
Vangel had put on something he would probably just dump in his storage, but it was worth it. So he thought. For he would later pay not only with the loss of his prized spear, but also his own life.

When he received the spear, he was the happiest man on earth. He decided to invite two dungeons and dragons friends, Ransu and Lacey, who said they wanted to check out the spear.

Ransu's motive was to steal the spear for himself.

Only one key exists for every room, and all of them were carefully hidden in Vangel's office. As soon as Vangel was out of earshot, Ransu was left alone in Vangel's office - Lacey was still in the bathroom and everyone else was downstairs while Vangel was heading to the stairs. It didn't take long to find the key to the power room. Knowing he had his secret weapon at hand, he made his call. It would be too obvious of a theft otherwise, and knowing his former friend well, he hoped that Vangel would enter a paranoid frenzy sending all of his guards to protect the spear; not knowing that he would insist on remaining in the white room with the other visitor, Lacey. He planned to pickpocket the only key to the padlock which was with Vangel at all times in the confusion of the darkness.

Ransu lied when he said he didn't ruin the backup generator. At 11:01, Ransu triggered his remote detonator while Lacey and Vangel were too distracted to focus on him in anticipation. Ransu ran straight towards Vangel, and stole the key. He was at the case now, Vangel hopelessly telling him and Lacey to stop the person from reaching the spear. Little did he know.

Ransu fired his gun at the padlock, while making sure not to break it. Near the glass case's door some small pieces of metal and stone were found, to avoid implicating himself, Lacey or Vangel who were the only ones in the white room when the lights turned off. However, Ransu was the only person that had access to the power room key. Without the power room key, the only other person that could have performed the theft was George, but no secret passages exist.

Ransu unlocked the padlock with his stolen key, pocketed the spear, and while Vangel was still in a dazed state trying to adjust to the dark, he placed the key back on Vangel's person right where he found it. Ransu then ran away from the area of theft to ensure that it was plausible that one of the guards did it, and successfully maintained his appearance that he and Lacey, were still in their positions, trying to feel their way in the dark.
The narration is the truth, as the rules say. At one point, it said Vangel had the key with him the whole time: "
Vangel held the key he has had since he locked the case with a padlock in his closed palm, and threw it to the floor.
"

As for the explosives, I believe an explosion would have been heard had one been used

Something else I should mention is that Ransu and Lacey meant "i didnt steal the spear" with their "i didn't do it"s

Oh, and one last thing:
the spear is longer than the average human. There is no way to hide it on your person.

2 718281828459 wrote:It seems there is insufficient information to find the identity of the person who disappeared. The annoying thing is that I can only see there being a disappearance if Ransu is the killer, but I cannot figure out how Ransu could be the killer.
Life finds a way
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Post Post #20 (isolation #6) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:42 am

Post by Segaco »

In post 18, 2 718281828459 wrote:
@Mod: Is it possible for a person to lock a window from the outside?
It is not.
Windows can only be locked from the inside.
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Post Post #22 (isolation #7) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Post by Segaco »

An accomplice is someone who helps the culprit in the execution of their plans. This is not just limited to the murder, but all the tricks the culprit may pull.
So your Barbara would be an accomplice for destroying the backup generator and then turning off the lights, but they are not allowed to exist.

It seems I wasn't as clear as I thought in the story. The glass case is in the center of the room.
This is immaterial to the mystery, but I wanted to leave it out there.

As for your howdunnits: For the theft I have nothing to say
For the murder you get a
the office's door can only be locked by hand. The same goes with the chain lock, it can only be set by hand.

And the last theory is denied by the fact accomplices don't exist.
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Post Post #27 (isolation #8) » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:10 pm

Post by Segaco »

In post 26, 2 718281828459 wrote:
Theory 04
Ransu is the killer. I am sticking with the Barbara name for person nine.
For the theft: Barbara did this completely on her own. She grabbed the padlock before Easty guarded the storage room. Then she went upstairs, found a hiding place, and waited for a while. Then she destroyed the generator and stole the spear as described before, but this time she just ran upstairs into the bathroom.

For the murder: Ransu played with the chain so that the door would open about 3 inches even with the chain set. This way, he could unchain the door, step out, and with one hand "set the chain". Then he locked the door with his key. He lied that there was a key stuck inside. Instead, during the chaos when the door broke down, Ransu secretly inserted the key into the keyhole so Lacey would think it was there the whole time.

For the disappearance: Ransu simply lied that there were no footprints.
The chain lock can only be set from the inside of the room.

In post 26, 2 718281828459 wrote:I have another idea.
Theory 05
Easty is the killer.
Theft: Easty set a time bomb or remote explosive in the power room. It was just strong enough to damage the equipment without being too loud. Then he did his theft just as before except that the power was destroyed remotely.

Murder: Easty did as Ransu did in theory 04, except that Easty used a magnet or some other thing to move the key once it was inside the lock. Not sure precisely how this would work, but it is the best I can currently come up with.

Disappearance: Barbara hid in the bathroom. Easty lied that no one was there.
No bombs are featured in this mystery.
In fact, I will be nice and say
the backup generator was destroyed manually.

And I believe you may be misunderstanding how the power works: what was destroyed was the
backup
generator, aka not the main source of electricity. If you flipped the power switch to off, the backup generator would run instead. But if it was destroyed and you set the switch to off, the lights would go off for real.
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Post Post #29 (isolation #9) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:06 pm

Post by Segaco »

2 718281828459 wrote:
@MOD: Would it be possible for a character to create a hole in the wall and then close it up without anyone else noticing?
It's not possible I'm afraid. But I will say it in red so you're certain,
an entrance or exit of a room never shown in either of the maps counts as a secret passage.
Secret passages do not exist.
The maps contain all possible entrances and exits that existed during the course of the mystery.

That should do.
2 718281828459 wrote:
Theory 06
Ransu is the killer. I am sticking with the Barbara name for person nine.
For the theft: Barbara did this completely on her own. She grabbed the padlock before Easty guarded the storage room. Then she went upstairs, found a hiding place, and waited for a while. Then she destroyed the generator and stole the spear as described before, but this time she just ran upstairs into the bathroom.

For the murder: Ransu threatened Vangel in some way, and then Vangel ran into the office and chained and locked the door. Ransu threatened to steal George's master key, so Vangel stuck his own key in the slot to attempt to prevent this. However, Ransu had previously placed a drone with a knife in the room, and stabbed Vangel remotely. Then he moved the knife into a bucket of water that was randomly in the room (or perhaps that Ransu placed in there), cleaned it a bit, and then made the drone let go of the knife.

For the disappearance: Ransu simply lied that there were no footprints.
A drone would have been found during the group's search of the office.
I'm not fan of remote-killing;
Vangel was killed with the murder weapon being held by the culprit.
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Post Post #31 (isolation #10) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:13 pm

Post by Segaco »

In post 30, 2 718281828459 wrote:
@MOD: Are contraptions allowed?
(A contraption, by my definition, is any method of performing mechanical work where the only human intervention is a meaningful amount of time before the actual work is done.)
I would say no, but I'd like to know what you're thinking before being set on that answer.
In post 30, 2 718281828459 wrote:
@MOD: Can the killer knowingly aid the thief and/or masked person in ways other than lying in purple? Can the thief and masked person aid each other?
The killer
could
technically help anyone, but I don't see why they would do so.
The masked person and the thief can work together, that is allowed. The only one not allowed to work with others is the killer.


Edit: Actually, let's not complicate ourselves.
From now on, I will refer to the person who took the spear as "the thief", the person who killed Vangel as "the killer" and the person Westy saw enter the guest room as "the kidnapper".

They could be the same person or completely different people, keep that in mind.

The thief worked alone, they did not have an accomplice or a helper during the whole course of the story.
The killer worked alone, they did not have an accomplice or a helper during the whole course of the story.
The kidnapper worked alone, they did not have an accomplice or a helper during the whole course of the story.
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Post Post #35 (isolation #11) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:24 am

Post by Segaco »

In post 32, 2 718281828459 wrote:Does the killer lying to protect the thief or kidnapper count as being an "accomplice"?
Yes. Assume the killer wouldn't help anyone but themselves.
In post 32, 2 718281828459 wrote:EDIT: Another question.
If the chain lock but not the keyhole lock is set, is it possible to open the door partially?
Yes.
2 718281828459 wrote:
Theory 08
Southy is the killer; 9th is the thief and kidnapper.
The 9th did the following: (1) Grab a padlock, its key, and a gun. (2) Destroy backup generator. (3) Turn off lights. (4) Enter white room. (5) Destroy original padlock. (6) Take spear. (7) Place new lock. (8) Run away.

Southy killed, as I have previously detailed.

9th then decided to kidnap Lacey. The way 9th got out was by
jumping over/around Westy and Easty as them and the broken door fell to the ground
and hiding somewhere else.
For the murder you mean Vangel locking himself in before dying?
I believe that would fail to explain the existence of the wet knife next to the body, but have at it:
Vangel died instantly.
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Post Post #37 (isolation #12) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:50 am

Post by Segaco »

2 718281828459 wrote:9:
Westy is the killer. He designed some kind of contraption (perhaps a string tied to an unstable object, or a crafted egg-carton catapult, or something else of that nature) to lock the window after he fled the room.

OR
10:
Ransu is the killer. He modified the chain to be slightly longer so he could open the door about 12 inches and then squeeze through after killing. He completely lied about the door being locked.
Your first blue goes against the "
windows can only be locked from the inside
" red

As for your second one, Ransu never said the door was locked, but here's my rebuttal:
The chain lock was not tampered with. If the chain was set, all you would be able to fit through the door gap would be your arm.
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Post Post #39 (isolation #13) » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:32 pm

Post by Segaco »

In post 38, 2 718281828459 wrote:So I have to wonder if Vangel was killed outside the office and then somehow brought in. But if the killer just brings the body in to the center, we are back where we started.

I had a nice idea but unfortunately the chain can only be set from the inside...

How about this:
Southy did it. Vangel was afraid and tried to seal himself in. Southy used a magnet to move the key in the lock and then reached in with a gun and shot Vangel, who happened to fall on his back. She then tossed a random wet knife into the room as a decoy, and used the magnet to lock the door again.
I'm not quite sure how the magnet technique would work, but I suppose it would be possible, somehow
No magnets. The key was put in the keyhole by hand, by the culprit.
The key, while inside the keyhole, was also manually turned by the culprit.


That aside, I feel you are forgetting Vangel left his key in his office before the heist. Anyone could have slipped in after this and took it.
Take that as a hint of some kind
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Post Post #41 (isolation #14) » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:56 am

Post by Segaco »

2 718281828459 wrote:Question: For the purposes of Lacey's purple that the door is locked, does having the chain set but not the keyhole lock count as being "locked"?
No. She was referring to the keyhole lock only.
2 718281828459 wrote:Actually, perhaps one's arm being inside the room counts as setting the chain from the inside. If this turns out to be the answer I am going to be quite disappointed.
Lacey is the culprit. Lacey never locked the door, but rather, she just placed the key in, exited the room, and then reached in with her arm through the gap to set the chain lock.
Worry not, I aim to not disappoint: doing that would be setting it from the outside.
You have to be inside the room to set the chain, no exceptions.
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Post Post #43 (isolation #15) » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:58 am

Post by Segaco »

In post 42, 2 718281828459 wrote:
George killed Vangel, and then intimidated a 9th person into locking themself in the room and hiding. That 9th had no idea what they were doing, so they did not KNOWINGLY aid the killer -- it was simply out of fear.
I have no comment.
In post 42, 2 718281828459 wrote:
Westy did it, escaped out the window, and used some really long pole or something to lock the window.
Window latches can only be set from the inside of the room.


----

Alright, now all you have to do is post the heist, murder and disappearance in order.
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Post Post #45 (isolation #16) » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:30 am

Post by Segaco »

I just wanted to leave you a gift before christmas time. Because red is the color of christmas, isn't it?

No ninth person exists. The only people that ever existed during the entire course of this story were Ransu, Lacey, Northy, Southy, Easty, Westy, George and Vangel.
And of course,
the thief, the killer and the kidnapper are all the same person.


As for your theory on the disappearance:
Right before Westy and Easty broke the door down, the only person inside the guest room was Lacey. Westy and Easty would have definitely noticed someone trying to jump around them as they fell with the door.

To be more clear,
no one left the guest room after those two entered.



Edit: And before I forget, merry christmas!
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Post Post #48 (isolation #17) » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:18 am

Post by Segaco »

In post 47, Allomancer wrote:
@Mod: Could Southy be lying about Vangel being dead from a stab wound?
Only if she is the culprit.
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Post Post #56 (isolation #18) » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:56 am

Post by Segaco »

I cannot give hints due to how close you are on some things, I'm afraid.
Allomancer wrote:What about the picture of a duck Ransu said "wasn't important"? Don't see how it helps...
If it called your attention, it must have called someone else's.
2 718281828459 wrote:Of course. The part about the key is a lie. How about this:
1. Ransu gathered a padlock, its key, and a gun. He also destroyed the backup generator.
2. Ransu placed a device on the power switch that would turn off the power at 11:01.
3. When the lights turned off, Ransu danced around the room, blasted the lock, took the spear, ran away, hid it, and ran back and pretended to be guarding the spear.
4. Later on, Vangel had chain-locked himself in the office. Ransu had stolen the key from the office. Ransu opened the door a crack, reached in, stabbed Vangel with the Spear, tossed a random wet knife into the room for confusion, brought the spear out and hid it, locked the door with the key, and then later on in the chaos Ransu inserted the key into the lock so it looked like it had been there the whole time.
5. Ransu decided for whatever reason to kidnap Lacey. When he realized he was busted, he jumped out, ran around, and pretended to have come from somewhere innocent. He of course lied that there were no footprints.


It is
so
easy to forget how easily one forgets...

If this (or something very similar to it) is not the solution I think I may have to give up
.
That answer would make for a great mystery, but it is sadly not the truth here.

Here's a push in the right direction for the theft:
the switch was flipped manually.

But do not fret yet, and think...
Is there another way for the backup generator not to work, somehow? Re reading should help with that.
If you follow the correct line of thinking, the line above should make sense.

Anyway, let's go to the murder: As mentioned, Lacey was by the doorway the whole time.
She would have definitely noticed anyone putting a key in the keyhole.


------

Now that you've mentioned giving up, let me add a new mechanic.
If you want to give up and get the answer, you have to post the following statement in
red
: "I give up, I surrender. I hereby declare myself loser of this game. Oh great mod, would you please be so merciful to send me the solution to this wonderful mystery via private message?"
This is to ensure no one actually gives up :p, but if you really want to know the answer without solving the game...
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Post Post #60 (isolation #19) » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:31 pm

Post by Segaco »

2 718281828459 wrote:...four hours. Of course. Four hours. The generator can power the lights for FOUR HOURS.

So clearly at 7:00, the culprit got the backup generator working, faked it being destroyed, and turned off the switch. No one else noticed until 240 minutes later when the power went out.


2.718
: "
I am not QUITE ready to give up.
. However, what annoys me is that your red for the murder is exactly the kind of non-constructive clue that just shoots down creative possibilities without giving any real way of coming up with new ideas to replace the bad ones."

Duck.
Duck can be a noun or a verb. Someone ducked their head?...
(But that part was not even in purple!)

Donald Duck? Daffy Duck?

Anyway:
Ransu lied that it is even impossible to operate a key with a different key on the other side of the door. Somehow, Ransu pickpocketed the master key from George, and then used it to lock the door with the room key still there on the other side of the door. When Ransu was done, he "anti-pickpocketed" the key, placing it back in George's pocket without him noticing.
I did not put the poor duck in purple because I wanted for you to be sure it existed.

As for the "hint", allow me to rephrase:
Ransu is not the culprit.

That should do the trick.
In post 58, 2 718281828459 wrote:I wonder:
The Narration wrote:Dejected, he [Vangel] walked into the white room and was then told something of interest, which made him immediately run to a certain room.
Are you allowed to say (1) what the "something of interest" was, (2) the "certain room", or (3) who told Vangel the interesting something, without giving away the answer immediately?
The culprit told him something which made him rush to his office.
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Post Post #62 (isolation #20) » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:47 pm

Post by Segaco »

I can assure you an answer does indeed exist. It would be rude of me to make a literal impossible crime.

Anyway, you said the reds I was giving only shot down a certain possibility and didn't help you get ideas. So I rephrased my "Lacey would have noticed someone putting the key in the keyhole" with that, as I don't see other way for Ransu to have done it.
Plus it gives a "wat" effect if you were certain he did it

My last christmas gift will be a hint regarding the disappearance: check what Vangel found during his search of the basement. Something important may be there.
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Post Post #66 (isolation #21) » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:34 pm

Post by Segaco »

I'm afraid I'll have to strike that down.
The chain lock can only be set from the inside of the room.
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Post Post #69 (isolation #22) » Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:54 am

Post by Segaco »

Don't worry, the place the mannequin was put doesn't really matter. Easty only searched the spots a person could hide, but not where an object may be hidden. So a "she hid the mannequin somewhere in the room" would have been fine.

With Number-kun's addition to the theory, it's almost perfect, which means you win!
Ending incoming:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Ransu started to search the room. It was impossible for someone to have possibly escaped; even though the window was unlocked, there were no footprints outside in the snow! They were on the second floor, too. A fall from the guest room would probably break one or two bones!


Ransu
: "Have you really searched the whole room?! This is impossible! No one could have left through the window and the two of you were right outside of the door!"
Easty
: "I looked all the places one could hide... I can guarantee there is no one hiding here."

He did not give up his search, however. Ransu looked at Lacey's body laying down and searched even more. Inside the closet, under the bed, even inside the toilet.
...Yet, there was no one to be found.


Southy
: "Just give it up! Leave it all to the police!"
Ransu
: "I will not! I will find him, I swear!!"

He had checked all possible hiding spots, however. There was just nowhere else someone could hide...
Having already given up, he decided to check one last place not really expecting to find anything: the bed. He took off the white sheets covering and was surprised to find a large slash on the mattress. Ransu put his hands inside and rummaged... When he was done, he took out a mannequin, a hat, a mask, a cape and old clothes.


Westy
: "T-That's...! Those clothes belong to the suspicious person I saw!"
Ransu
: "But what is this doing her-"

Right then, Ransu had an epiphany. He knew why this was here, there was only one possibility. But... why?
After asking himself that, everything came together. The complete answer to the mystery was right before his eyes.


Ransu
: ".....It's not a coincidence this is here. This was put here by the actual kidnapper."
George
: "...Are you saying the culprit is naked?"
Ransu
: "What? No! I'm saying that by necessity, whoever tried to kidnap Lacey HAD to hide these things here."
Easty
: "You know, this doesn't particularly mean anything to me."
Ransu
: "It should, it's the key to solving this. Westy, you weren't able to see the kidnapper's face because of the mask, right?"

Westy nodded, and Ransu moved to where the door was.


Ransu
: "Let me repeat one thing I've been saying from the start: It is impossible to escape this room. The door was locked from the inside and there were no footprints on the snow outside the window. This means that the idea of someone somehow escaping is wrong... It's not seemingly impossible like the crimes so far, it truly IS impossible. ...Westy, who do you know for a fact entered this guest room? Before us, I mean."
Westy
: "Uh... Lacey and the masked man?"
Ransu
: "...Again, like I said, you can't escape this room after getting in. The only person we found inside here was Lacey. Connect this to the fact we found a mannequin and the 'kidnapper's' clothes hidden and-"
The rest
: "OOH!"

Everyone understood. Lacey had disguised as the masked man and dressed the mannequin as herself.


Ransu
: "As I asked myself why she would do something like this in this delicate situation, only one thing came to my mind: she wanted to get suspicion off herself, make us believe she couldn't have done something. But what, exactly? There is only one thing, which is Vangel's murder. There would be no need to try to make others not suspect you if you weren't worried about something, and that is how I stumbled to the answer to the locked room office: Lacey lied about the locked door. If anyone were to suspect she was lying, they would likely come across the answer like I did, and she thus kidnapped herself to lead us to think a ninth person was behind all of this."
Northy
: "But it really is impossible. Even if she had lied, the chain was set and it could have only be set from the inside. If she had set it, she couldn't have gotten out!"
Ransu
: "She wasn't the one who set it. Vangel himself MUST have set the chain as you can't leave after setting it, like you said. Maybe she told him she had seen someone suspicious enter his office? I don't know. What I do know is that after Vangel had set the chain and possibly looked around for this person, he found the duck drawing Lacey had left on the floor. While he was distracted examining it, she struck from behind and killed him."
Westy
: "Wait a moment, you said she attacked from behind... But didn't you just say she wasn't in the room...?"
Ransu
: "Yes. She wasn't in the room."
Southy
: "...Does that mean Lacey has a super long arm and stabbed Vangel with the knife through the door gap? It doesn't look like it, but I can get behind that logic!"
Ransu
: "Uh, no. The knife was thrown in for misdirection after the murder. The only way for this to be possible is if she used a long weapon to kill from the outside, through the door gap. And it so happens that a rather long weapon was stolen not long ago..."
George
: "She stole the spear?! How?!"
Ransu
: "As we already know, the backup generator runs out of power if it's turned on for four hours. Lacey knew this and turned off the power four hours before the heist. The backup generator ran till 11, when we were all in position to defend the spear, before running out of power and making the lights go out. In the dark Lacey likely used some kind of night goggles to move and shoot off the padlock in or-"
Northy
: "The padlock was still set in place, though."
Ransu
: "...She shot off the padlock and replaced it with an identical one after taking out the spear. We did not use the case's key after the theft, but it would have certainly not worked then. There's no other explanation for the gunshot... Anyway, she ran upstairs to hide the spear and later came back, and when Vangel had her go upstairs to turn on the lights ,she took the chance to destroy the backup generator. All so we would think a ninth person had destroyed it so they could turn off the power."

As Ransu finished his explanation, Lacey suddenly jumped and dashed to the window... but was promptly stopped by Westy, who charged at her and brought her to the ground.


Lacey
: " Ah!! Let me go!!"
Ransu
: "...Lacey, why did you kill Vangel? I get why one would want to steal the spear, but why murder our friend?!"

After a long struggle where all four guards plus Ransu had to hold her down, she gave up. While being held by all limbs by the guards, she began explaining her motive... The other's faces changed as she finished laying it out.


Westy
: "...Stupid. What you told us is indeed sad, but Vangel had no way of knowing buying the spear would cause that."
Lacey
: "Probably. But with him dead, she can finally rest in peace, at least..."
Ransu
: "Is something like that all one needs to murder...? I really can't believe it..."

Later on, the police arrived to investigate Vangel's murder. They surely did not expect having the culprit already served on a silver platter.


The end.


I will write up the solution in a minute.
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Post Post #71 (isolation #23) » Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:49 am

Post by Segaco »

Spoiler: Solution
Lacey's grandmother was at the spear auction. The spear had initially belonged to her ancestors, but she was forced to give it up, and the new owner put it on auction. She bid as much money as she could to win the spear, but was eventually surpassed by Vangel. She begged for him to drop his bid so she could win, but he obviously said no and she got mad. It wasn't even possible to drop the bid at that point, but she did not know. Plus, this was that type of auction where you have to pay what you bid no matter if you win or not, so grandma ended up being poor.
Having lost so much money and something so precious to her family, she went back to her house and told Lacey what had happened. The grandmother damned Vangel and his greed, and soon died of an illness she had been fighting with the same day. At this moment, Lacey decided she was going to kill Vangel with the spear he had indirectly used to kill her grandmother.

While Lacey was in the bathroom, she called Vangel and told him she was going to steal the spear at 11. Having known Vangel for years, she knew he would do something about it even if he thought it was a prank.
One hour later, at 7 PM, she turned off the power switch in the power room so the backup generator would run. During this time, she also went into the storage and took some night goggles and a padlock identical to the one that was being used on the glass case. She also took a white bedsheet from Vangel's room.

At 11, the backup generator ran out of power and the lights went off. Lacey put on the night goggles and made her way to the glass case's door. Holding a gun in one hand and a stone in the other, she put the stone right behind the padlock and shot it off (to not leave a gun hole on the floor or glass case, or accidentally hit someone). With it gone, she took the spear and replaced the broken padlock with the one she had.

After taking the broken padlock from the floor, she ran to a corner of the room, put the spear there and covered it with the white sheet. Then she went back to the case and acted like she did not know what was happening.
When Vangel had her go upstairs, she turned on the lights and destroyed the backup generator.

No one could see the white sheet covering the spear as the room itself was big and white and it blended with the color. This was supposed to be another mystery you had to solve, but I forgot to put George on the stairs upstairs so you would be certain she couldn't have hidden it upstairs, but since I forgot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


For the murder, before anything, Lacey put the drawing of a duck in the center of Vangel's office and got herself the key to the room which had just been left there. After this, she told Vangel she had seen someone carrying the spear in the game room, but when they saw her, the person ran into the office. Vangel rushed to his room and chain locked the door so he could search without worrying about this person escaping as he looked around, but that was sadly part of the culprit's plan.
Vangel saw the locked window and began searching under the bed and inside the closet, but later noticed the drawing of a duck. He got close to it and, as he examined the drawing wondering why it was there, Lacey, who was looking through the keyhole, opened the door as far as it allowed her and killed Vangel with the spear through the door gap. She later hid the spear somewhere in the game room, and then went to the guest room's bathroom to wet a knife she had. She threw this knife into the office through the gap when she was done.

While everyone was searching the room, she flipped over the door and turned the key so it would look like it had been locked the entire time.


As for the disappearance, she got a mannequin and some clothes and hid them in the guest room. She dressed the mannequin as herself and disguised as some guy with a mask.
She got out of the guest room carrying the mannequin, fully expecting to find someone, and when she did ran back into the room and locked the door. Lacey quickly dressed as herself and hid the mannequin plus clothes in a slash she had previously done in the mattress.
And of course, Lacey then acted like she was asleep.

That is how the culprit pulled things off.


Merry christmas and thanks for playing!
In post 70, 2 718281828459 wrote:(What is with the name "Number-kun" you are using for me?)
Well, between those numbers and Number-kun, the latter is easier to write
Last edited by Segaco on Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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