Marathon Weekend Open Setup Group

This forum is for discussion related to the game.
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Marathon Weekend Open Setup Group

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:28 pm

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edit 9/05/2019
Marathon weekend coming up on 24-27th May!! Get hyped!


Hello mafia discussion people!

Recently I've been pretty invested in looking through the open setup discussion subforum. I can't really calculate EV all that well & rarely have ideas to improve setups but it's really interesting to see some of the ideas people float.

The challenge with a lot of these setups is that past theoretical discussion, it's tough to gauge how fun they are to play, or how balanced they are beyond just the EV. The Open Queue has been firing slowly lately & even with deadline compromises, it takes a few weeks (if not a month or longer) to test a game. Even then, that's only one single run of a game, when it could take multiple runs of a game to really figure things out.

I was chatting to northsidegal about the same thing and basically we had a pretty similar idea: the next time the Marathon Weekend comes around, a group of people get together to play through those untested or barely-tested setups!

In a nutshell the intention here is:
  1. This should not be an exclusive/invitational group.
  2. People who would be interested in trialling open setups can express interest; provide a Discord tag if you'd like, and I can poke people when the time comes.
  3. If you would be interested in trialling particular open setups, speak up!
  4. If you would be interested in playing a butt-tonne of neat open setups, speak up!
  5. Come Marathon Weekend, as a group we'll aim to trial as many of these as humanely possible.
If there isn't a marathon weekend in sight / there isn't enough interest I would also be pretty keen on running these in a chat mafia format of some kind.

Some setups which jump to mind, for example, are Something_Smart's Bipartite Mafia, implosion's Pollock's Flag, and maybe even that brilliant setup idea in the back of your mind right now!


Anyway - just after opinions and expressions of interest now. Who would be keen? Are there any setup ideas you want tested?

potential victims:
the worst
northsidegal
Something_Smart
PvtUrist
Jingle
Irrelephant11
BulletNLynchproof
Elements
Alisae
Allomancer
light_ganski
teacher
enter
gamma emerald
invisibility
Clemency
Fukuro
Creature
skitter30
BuJaber
sheepsaysmeep
Pink Ball
Yuchou
TheGoldenParadox
u r a person 2
chennisden

Suggested Setups

Spoiler:
Setup NameDesigner/sno. players
Burden of Proficiency Mafiathis thread! (Jingle/CFJ/RC/NSG)7
Bipartite MafiaSomething_Smart7 suggested
Marked for DeathToto8
Vanilla 8-ballIrrelephant118
M Mafia, 1 Vigilante, T Townmith9
Follow the LeaderSomething_Smart9
Xiaolin Showdown (variation)Creature (mith var.)9
Called Itcallforjudgement9
Half Mast Nightlessmith9-20
Double ElectionBulletNLynchProof10
Docblock the ClockBBMolla11
Treacherous JesterBicephalous Bob11
Key to the Bunkercallforjudgement11
Raw as Hell, But...Jingle11
Panic Roomnorthsidegal11
Rogue Agentmith11
Lynch or No Lynchcallforjudgement12
Innocent Evil PeopleJingle13 (could be run with less?)
Ladder Mafia?Creature13
Loser MafiaSimenon13
Pollock's Flagimplosion13
Investigative Reportingnorthsidegal21
Last edited by the worst on Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:49 pm, edited 29 times in total.
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Post Post #6 (isolation #1) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:39 pm

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In post 4, T-Bone wrote:Please loop me in on any Open discussions.
Will do - I'll keep you posted & make sure we document anything we do as a group.
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Post Post #14 (isolation #2) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:32 am

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In post 13, Jingle wrote:Should we be linking to the discussion pages for setups we as a group are interested in testing as well?
Yeah, I'd be pretty keen on that. If anyone has any feedback on setups/variations they would like to see this would be a productive thing to run thru as well imo
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Post Post #23 (isolation #3) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:13 pm

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In post 21, Fukuro wrote:any idea of when marathon weekend starts this year?
Not sure yet - I always keep my eyes peeled for the announcements (I live for marathons. :lol:)

When the announcement goes up, I'll fire a pm out to this list (including T-Bone) and get some registrations of interest for setups and players.

incidentally if anyone has any setups they'd already like to give a go, or want me to to ping them on Discord, just yell out. :)
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Post Post #25 (isolation #4) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:23 pm

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Invisibility this thread is for organisation not revolution..
:(
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Post Post #28 (isolation #5) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:55 pm

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HYPE!!
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Post Post #32 (isolation #6) » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:38 pm

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Is this an hypnosis attempt? Because it's working.
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Post Post #36 (isolation #7) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

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Yeah sure. Make any suggestions here or via the google form I sent out (also in post# btw)

Luckily there isn't a huuuuge degree or coordination needed and we can run setups to the number of people online
but the more conversation/hype leading up to the weekend, the better.

Whatcha thinking setup-wise, Vizzy?
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Post Post #39 (isolation #8) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:16 am

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we need like ~10 times as many players as mods for some of these setups so that's perfect by me. I really like modding.
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Post Post #43 (isolation #9) » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:16 am

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all is pretty quiet on the setup request front (I kinda expected as much)

I can throw in some setups I'd like to play? :3
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Post Post #48 (isolation #10) » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:33 am

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This is good. Please keep em coming, awesome suggestions from all of you!

When I have some PC time (excepting my lunch break which will be devoted to other things I suspect - possibly tomorrow) I'll table these up & filter by player count and setup notes. for example nightless, vengeful, flag mechanics, vigilante, etc.

If anyone would like particular things noted on the table hmu! It's easier to do them upfront than edit in later.

watch this space :shifty:
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Post Post #50 (isolation #11) » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:06 am

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jingle's signature wrote:always scum
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Post Post #55 (isolation #12) » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:09 pm

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that was the best game I have ever been in ngl

pedit: 3 scum
2 VTs
IC nsg
IC rc

let's go
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Post Post #58 (isolation #13) » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:28 pm

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nightless :0
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Post Post #60 (isolation #14) » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:24 pm

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60% town ev? mmmm
maybe just 1v1+2?
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Post Post #61 (isolation #15) » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:24 pm

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how about 3v3+2, one flip, then they have a pt where they have to guess the scumteam and if they do it then win
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Post Post #64 (isolation #16) » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:53 pm

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I actually don't hate the idea too much.
Maybe a win is just a redflip on d1 but I feel like the nsg/rc thing is specifically intended to townsided heavily above mechanical ev since they're both Overpowered....

I too would mod/play it
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Post Post #67 (isolation #17) » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:11 pm

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Me? I'm the worst

(yuchou is a man of many names :shifty: most recently Nibbui)
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Post Post #70 (isolation #18) » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:49 am

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(づ ̄ ³ ̄)づ
I love it
this could be interesting to experiment with but definitely allows for the fact it's difficult as hell to win
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Post Post #72 (isolation #19) » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:36 am

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In your calculations I'm guessing paragons are only given a binary yes/no response to whether or not their team guess was correct? (e.g. if there is a townflip and their guess contains exactly 1 scum, they shouldn't be told such)?

those are really fair suggestions. I actually think this might be a bit of fun to muck around with on marathon weekend if people are willing to submit themselves to paragonism for the challenge. (my reads aren't all that good but I'd do it!!)
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Post Post #81 (isolation #20) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:20 pm

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alright i've loaded out the OP with a table of setups we're considering.
if anyone has any others just sing out and i'm happy to throw them in; if for example people are around and there's a particularly clueless mod (=> me) i guess having them somewhere increases the chances they'll be run. :lol:



obv. i've left out the usual suspects a la vengeful lovers mafia etc. but they'll no doubt get a fair thrashing
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Post Post #88 (isolation #21) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:54 pm

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i sent a courtesy pm to the people who /in'd just in case people like get email alerts/haven't been around the forum and stuff :)

yeah if people are planning to run opens and want some numbers, maybe advertising em in here as the great and wise jingle suggested is a good option. i've got some other folks who expressed interest in discord pings so i'll try and keep them adequately poked about what's going on.
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Post Post #91 (isolation #22) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:31 pm

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how could I get sick of you? your avatar has already pre-hypnotised me *_*
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Post Post #96 (isolation #23) » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:30 am

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Rogue Agent Mafia was just run as a 'surprise open' with a town win.
(ignore the radiantcowbells memes & double-win jokes; it was run entirely as described)
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Post Post #99 (isolation #24) » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:08 pm

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8p vanilla 8-ball was also run by the awesome Jingle, with a town win!
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Post Post #100 (isolation #25) » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:30 pm

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15p (6:9) half mast nightless was run with a scum win.

Yes, you read that correctly.
I am drowning in regret.
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Post Post #101 (isolation #26) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:30 am

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Marked for Death was run by Jingle, with a town win!
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Post Post #102 (isolation #27) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:27 pm

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A City in Twain Mafia was run with RadiantCowbells, with a scum win!
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Post Post #103 (isolation #28) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:10 pm

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Black Flag Nightless was run, with a town win!
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Post Post #104 (isolation #29) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:12 am

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Marked for Death was run by Enter (tongue in cheek modding, but still valid), with a scum win!
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Post Post #105 (isolation #30) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:18 pm

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8p vanilla 8-ball was run, with a town victory!
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Post Post #106 (isolation #31) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:05 pm

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8p vanilla 8-ball was run again by Buki, with a scum victory!
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Post Post #109 (isolation #32) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:04 pm

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As Jingle said - DEFINITELY!

I think (hope?) this was an absolute blast this weekend and I'd be keen to try and reassemble whenever marathon weekend are run in the future. Imo it takes a lot of pressure off setup design and promises some ~balanced setups which are easy enough to run and it's a wicked fun way to get people together for some semi serious marathon fun.

I'd welcome anyone else's thoughts if like. anyone thought maybe this didn't go down well or anything like that. But I've really enjoyed this little project.
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Post Post #111 (isolation #33) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:59 pm

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Xiaolin Showdown (Creature variant) was run by Enter, with a scum win!
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Post Post #112 (isolation #34) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:52 pm

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Tough on Crime was run by Jingle, with a town win!
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Post Post #116 (isolation #35) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:49 pm

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So all in all I think this went really well.

My thoughts are that there's no harm in leaving this thread open for next time. If people feel that we were a little underconmunicated, that might be something I consider for next time - I really don't know how popular discord is on MS, but I'd be open to setting up a server for collaboration & numbers-wrangling in the future. If people are keen to push more into that 11-13p sweet spot, I think live external communication is a smart way to do it.

It was really neat to be able to run quite a few micro opens and get a sense for how they feel to play, outside of how they fare from an ev and/or theoretical point of view. :)

I have certainly learned from a first hand modding perspective that projecting the number of phases a game will last is an incredibly important factor in marathon modding. I thought others might appreciate this insight. Because of the genuinely remarkably strong player list which banded together, I do think that the 6:9 half mast madness was a success, in several ways. And the probability of it running into 3p is truly very low - but should it happen, you're looking at an upwards-of-13 phase game! I'm really pleased that this happened at a conceptual level (a but of a win for mad science?). But I think it's something others and myself should be pretty wary of modding in the future.

Agreed totally with Jingle--8ball and Marked for Death were absolute marathon hits. The game size is perfect for this format, and it's really impressive how well players adapted to the need to make rapid-fire decisions.

cfj, your comments about balance on 8ball also resonate - the harsh deadlines imposed by the marathon format changes the weight of the 8ball in really interesting ways. Even though the same size is small, I also get the feeling it is a difficult setup for scum to win. Having said that (and I need to check this), I think the current sample size outside of marathons is probably biased by a lot of replacement, and within marathons *might* have been skewed by random.org choosing scum players who strongly prefer town.

Either way I'd definitely be very interested to see it run more. :D
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Post Post #131 (isolation #36) » Wed May 08, 2019 9:56 am

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viewtopic.php?f=24&t=79628

Everyone down for round 2?? :) I'll message the victim list shortly!
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Post Post #133 (isolation #37) » Wed May 08, 2019 10:00 am

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Purple flag nightless - everyone is 2 shot lynchproof
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Post Post #136 (isolation #38) » Wed May 08, 2019 10:43 am

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I think your suggestion last time was good. Try and cap ~mystery opens~ at 13 players and/or just don't run nightless marathons with more than say 9 people. (I think grey flag nightless lends well to marathons!)

hey it wasn't a fiasco it was amazing
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Post Post #144 (isolation #39) » Wed May 08, 2019 1:23 pm

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I'd be very interested in running another big marathon game; I'd just like to be a bit clearer about the fact we wanna run a BIG marathon game upfront and make sure folks know what they're in for. Also as cfj mentioned up there... it needs to have some kind of projection around how many days it's going to run. Vigilantes and scum nightkills are probably extremely wise for massive marathon games.
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #147 (isolation #40) » Wed May 08, 2019 1:46 pm

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Excellent thanks. :)

Part of my evil plan to set up for this one is to prowl through the monthly challenges I've missed and cherrypick the more marathon friendly ones
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Post Post #149 (isolation #41) » Wed May 08, 2019 1:58 pm

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Sounds great, I'll hunt that down pronto.
If you have any links feel free to throw them in posts here too, I'll add any suggestions to the op :D
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Post Post #154 (isolation #42) » Wed May 08, 2019 3:01 pm

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escape from reality sadly failed
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Post Post #157 (isolation #43) » Wed May 08, 2019 3:27 pm

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In post 156, Jingle wrote:Add Marked For Death. That one was hella popular last time.
This exactly - Marked for Death was an absolute hit.
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Post Post #164 (isolation #44) » Mon May 13, 2019 3:43 pm

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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79631
I'd be pretty keen to run this.
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Post Post #174 (isolation #45) » Fri May 17, 2019 1:08 pm

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u r a timelord 2
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Post Post #177 (isolation #46) » Sat May 18, 2019 12:37 am

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In post 175, teacher wrote:Im hyped, Im actually going to be able to play this time!

Is the a discord etc.
There isn't--but if you'd like I can give you a private poke when we're live. I'm Tom#4827.
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Post Post #179 (isolation #47) » Sat May 18, 2019 2:46 pm

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Thanks very much. Hope your weekend is a blast, even if you don't get a chance to pop in!

It will feel strange having a marathon weekend without an attempt to run EIASK.
But it would feel even stranger running it without you :<
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Post Post #181 (isolation #48) » Thu May 23, 2019 4:54 pm

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Marathon weekend is on!!!
I've had some requests from people privately so have set up an 'unofficial' discord server, mostly so I can @ people when there's upcoming weekends (or cool setups are being run). Might also store game stats here for quick reference.

https://discord.gg/GsTqadY
Come say hello!
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Post Post #191 (isolation #49) » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:58 pm

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Sorry to necro this.
You could potentially run adjacent Timers for each player, then edit the timer as more food is added/taken away.
I'm not sure if I can think of a clever way to get them all to run to the exact microsecond, but votecounts of this format may be digestible. :?

Spoiler:
Image



Now that I'm typing this I realise that I really want to try and build a solution in Excel. :lol:
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Post Post #192 (isolation #50) » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:17 am

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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80551&p=11179048#p11179048
another marathon weekend has been announced!
i'll be in transit for this one, so won't be organising anything 'big' (I'll still run & play games when I can)

anyone got some new opens they'd like to try and run?
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Post Post #194 (isolation #51) » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:05 pm

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we have another marathon weekend coming up soon!
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83840

i'll get some PMs out :) don't forget to join the discord:
https://discord.com/invite/GsTqadY
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