mini 2048: more songs (game ougre)

[Nikk]

If my wagon was the result of a mistake it would have happened _before_ Roberts wagon

Literally the first vote of the day was on you, come on now.

[profii]

So 1 vote constitutes a wagon ? Come on now

[Nikk]

So 1 vote constitutes a wagon ? Come on now

Wagonomics and Robert calling for you to be looked at and then the first vote being on you disqualifies this from being a counter wagon. This isn't some new direction or a single random vote. If anything Robert is a counter to you that derailed any push on you before it got started.

Nothing you have provided today makes me think you are town and you have done the most open damage to the town thus far. To claim you are a counter wagon to anything is misrepresentative.

[Nikk]

VOTE: pofli

Quickhammer from yesterday.
Scummy play today.

Robert is also a fine direction.

[Trivium]

I'd like to just hit both of them, can we agree on that? Robert first please.

[Egix96]

As of right now, between profii and Rob, I would rather lynch prof first. I actually think that Rob is town now... aaaarrrrrgh.

VOTE: profii

[Egix96]

Robert first please

Why?

[xwing]

why profii is scummy..
no, it's not just the "alleged miscount"..that's just minor compared to your other tells..
all emphasis mine..

[snip]

Going to go with a SR on profii for trying to get himself on a wagon before it goes to a lynch.

VOTE: profii

@lol, is this what you meant by the scumslip on post 430? i dont get what you're seeing here..

The only way it would be advantageous for Profii to be on his wagon as scum, is if TGP were to flip scum.
If TGP flips town, then how is it good for scum-Profii to be on the wagon?
And we know TGP is scumreading Profii because it’s right there in the post.

have people forgotten this? im seriously confused how come wagon got lynched BEFORE profii..
the resistance to the profii wagon is telling too, noh?

hmmm i like to like you profii, but maybe i cant give you a town read just yet..but def not on my scumdar..
im gonna take a backseat for now and let the others come in and comment..

@mod: i'm going to be V/LA on the weekends UTC+12, it's Friday lunch time now my time..

"Hey look I might have to defend myself ok bye"

VOTE: xwing

glad it's not just me, seems like the right way to go

this looks like a very bad vote fmpov, profii..
so you had a bad feeling about my slot, but you wait for someone else to validate and vote for it before getting your hands dirty yourself? if you're town, i think this looks bad on your slot, i'd rather you voted me first..

^second tell..throwing in bait, waiting for someone to jump in and vote before getting his hands dirty himself..very opportunistic and safe vote here..

surprisingly, i find gp's read list 241 and 245 a bit okay..doesn't redeem his scum equity though..
also, robert's in 245 got a lot of nulls..doesnt look too good..

Yo Lolwagons - i wanted you to vote Xwing because I thought you were scum WITH Xwing - that why I note your resistance but you are starting to town it up a bit more so I'll reveal my read.

I am placing you under the pressure of a relatively high burden of proficiency so if you keep getting stuff wrong I am going to revert back to my initial instinct that you are scum with xwing.

it was an early read and probably wrong but that's why i was going that way.

@profii..your line on burden of proficiency is dangerous, and could be interpreted as giving you a way out as scum later when you suddenly scumread lolwagons..

[snip]

^third..giving yourself a way out on his reads..

[snip]

Xwing I’m not sure how you think I’m sitting on the fence with you - I think you are scummy

maybe fence-sitting is not the right word, but your vote timing looks pretty scummy fmpov..
you stated that "oh, xwing questions a lot, sounds like flubber when flubber was scum, but it's not fair to vote xwing for that.."
some time later flubber votes xwing, then you vote in turn..
seems suspect for me anyway..do you think im being unreasonable?

^profii contradicting himself on his vote on me, shows his opportunistic agenda..

I’ll lynch:

Xwing
TGP
Lapsa
Robert

I think

I am curious as to why xwing is still in this list. We were both in agreement that that they were shaking the bush but not really picking up anything that may have dropped. That changed a lot with their catch up.

I haven’t read that to be fair I’ll catch up

i still dont know what to think of profii..his actions are just questionable/scummy to me..in this instance he openly admits to not reading new info but is still content to scum read me..this isnt OMGUS, it's just pinging me..as town would absorb new info and re-adjust reads accordingly..

[snip]

^putting in a vote AND lynch list WITHOUT evaluating new information..PLUS immediate back track once someone called him out on it..very, very slimy..

Vote count 1.2

TheGoldenParadox (4):

Trivium, LolWagons, Egix96, xwing

xwing (4):

TheGoldenParadox

, Lapsa, Flubbernugget, profii

Lapsa (2):

Robert2424, Nikk

Wagonomics (1):

Sashaddin

Robert2424 (1):

Doughboy

Nikk (1):

Wagonomics

not voting (0):

both gp and profii on my wagon..hmmm..

regardless of how gp flips, i think we need to take a look at profii, not feeling comfy with this slot..
see my post 414, middle part talks about profii

i think just blindly voting someone OUTSIDE of rvs based on OLD information is very, very scummy and i see this as more of a scumslip than gp statement..

[snip]

^VCA on me..both gp and profii on my wagon..

TLDR:
i bet both of trivium's feet that profii is likely scum..and i firmly believe we should lynch profii before anyone else (robert, lapsa are in the general running)..
trivium, is your case on robert more compelling?

[Trivium]

Nah, as I said I'm fine with either and you make a good case there, especially because I forgot about the previous votecounts somehow VOTE: profii

[profii]

Ok let’s try and answer that

1st quote block - I don’t even understand Lols point - why is it good for me to bus day 1? All my games are on my wiki - I’ve never bussed day 1 (I think I’ve only ever voted my mate if there’s been a mechanical guilty)

2nd quote block - for the first half of day 1, I thought there was a scum link between you and Lol - something gave it away that one of you, therefore both of you were town but I can’t remeber what that was - in terms of oppurtunity- I’d say of course - this game is about forming majority on scum, vanity is largely pointless so if someone else sees what I’m seeing it’s easier to push - this quote was obviously before I thought you were town


3rd quote - as per my last comments I was scum reading {xwing/Lol} together - looking at that specific quote I do recall a resistance from LOL to vote xwing which made me think maybe he won’t say 1 bus. I don’t know what I thought LOL was getting mixed up about but derping can be a scum tell so I would push that for sure


4th quote - sigh it’s Xmas


5th quote - the VCA - erm - rethink this please - would 2 scum go on a single slot if the plan was to inevitably bus TGP - dont think so
We are all saying Robert is potentially scum too - he is also off wagon - why wouldn’t 1 of us get on TGP ASAP to disguise the grab for town cred?
Notably that’s VC 1.2 so it’s early when I said I had a scum read on you, plus we had a decent wagon so as I say I try to avoid vanity

Also if you want to make a case on VCA don’t just colour in 1 slot when we have had a number of flips

The questionable slots are:
On wagon - Egix / xwing

Off wagon - Lapsa / profii / nikk / sash

I’ve removed Trivium for uncontested hood claim
I’ve removed Mastina (Dough) because I think ascetic is likely town false guilty role

If you want VCA - the TGp wagon was HARD to get through which suggests a lack of scum on it

So all that points you towards is me and Robert because we moved on by end of day - it doesn’t implicate me any more than Robert imo



Excuse me if I don’t find your case compelling


And for whoever was arguing that the Robert wagon came after the profii wagon - consider this - the Robert wagon caused so much pressure he claimed - the wagon on me is yet to do that so, yes I am the counter wagon

[Nikk]

Aren't you at L-1? Your lack of claim isn't proof of anything.

[profii]

The point is Robert got to l-1 and claimed before me

So the point I made that I am the counter wagon to Robert is true

[Robert2424]

So your not willing to claim? Or getting your fake claim ready still?

[profii]

I don’t see intent

[Robert2424]

Ok. I have Intent to hammer, but waiting on your claim and everybody to read it.

[Lapsa]

VOTE: robert

[mastina]

i'm annoyed with how the last day went..didnt even wait for everyone to have their say before the lynch when we had plenty of time to discuss..i thought we were in agreement that we were going to look at profii slot? how come it changed to wagonomics?
VOTE: profii
also, flubber NK highly suggests robert as scum, unless it's a frame-up job..

The real question is: how come the wagon changed from Robert--who WAS CLOSE TO BEING LYNCHED YESTERDAY (Robert got to either L-2 or maybe even L-1, and then, randomly, for

no reason whatsoever

, that wagon reversed onto Wagonomics IN SPITE OF ME SAYING THAT I HAD WAGON AS MY STRONGEST TOWNREAD FOR GOOD REASON)--onto Wagonomics?

And for that matter...how come you correctly note that the Flubber nightkill is yet more evidence of Robert as scum...yet instead vote

profii

?

It's posts like this which are why xwing is my top pick for Robert's scumbuddy. This reluctance to outright bus has been present the whole game.

(Also. Yes. This is me

after

having calmed down and de-stressed. Now you know why I needed to declare the V/LA because if this is me after having de-stressed, relaxed and chilled out, just imagine what I'd do if posting when emotionally compromised.)

[mastina]

Does anyone else here think mastina could be an ascetic goon?

That'd be poor setup design if so.

Before you guys fucking lynched yesterday.

I said.

"Don't lynch before I get a chance to explain things."

You fucking lynched before I could explain things.

Wagonomics had a mistaken idea of what PR balance in a 13-player mini normal is. He was comparing schadd's past games, which have recently been smaller sizes (I'd know since I reviewed most of them), to a full-sized game. In a mini normal that has 13 players, you're looking at around 3 very strong town PRs vs. an all-goon scumteam. Adjust as is necessary--if you add a scum PR/add a town PR, you need to add a town PR/a scum PR (respectively).

So for me to be an ascetic goon, you'd need a fourth VERY strong PR. We're talking, watcher-strength. Not voyeur-strength. Voyeurs are borderline useless to the town, especially in this game's setup. (The voyeur gets to see that the town neighborizers used their action--a fact that the neighborized player themselves is quite capable of claiming.) Probably not even tracker/follower strength. You'd need an incredibly strong town power role, along the lines of cop, jailkeeper, doctor, to justify giving scum an ascetic, because the town roles we have are already gated.

In contrast, an ascetic town player (keep in mind that roles hold different values as different alignments--ascetic goon is one of the strongest scum PRs possible in a mini as a pseudo-strongman, pseudo-ninja, pseudo-godfather immune to trackers/followers/cops/roleblockers/jailkeepers, whereas an ascetic town is...basically worthless) balances the setup out nicely, because it is a player the neighborizers can't neighborize.

With the neighborizers being loyal, ascetic mafia is redundant--it'd be like putting in a mafia miller to a game. (Which, mind you, I do, but this is schadd's setup design, not mine.) But with the neighborizers being loyal, ascetic town is essentially a miller: something that is mostly net-neutral for balance, situationally positive, but also notably and visibly negative utility. It's a great role to augment the design of the setup's aesthetic we have here.

[mastina]

btw, if you haven't guessed by now I'm a Voyeur. Nobody visited Lapsa last night either.

This is pretty much always a scum role btw.

A town voyeur here gives the town absolutely nothing. What's it supposed to catch? Some mystical, mythical, completely unseen, unheard of, magical scum PR that there is literally no evidence of existing? My skeptical description should let you know what I think about that.

The town PRs?

Okay, which alignment benefits from catching the town PRs?

A voyeur can't pin the scum down, but

can

pin who the town PRs are. It is a weak investigative role, akin to a nerfed rolecop. Slightly weaker than a mafia Neapolitan, even, but still serving much the same function as one: serving to help identify what types of town actions are being used in the game, and on whom.

It's a role that I can easily seen added to the scum if the balancer for the game went, "I feel this setup's a bit townsided; can you give the scum something extra?".

[mastina]

I'm trying to think of a reason you shouldn't believe me xwing, I really am, and I can't find any. Unless there's a mafia roleblocker who blocked flubber's neighborizing *and* maf killed flub the same night while somehow knowing flubber was both neighborizer and was going to neighborize me tonight... I mean, I'm town.

i havent encountered this role before so im not so sure how it plays..
im thinking scum can also claim they were neighborized then someone would cc then it would be a 1v1..
but then it would be 1 town for 1 scum so it's anti-scum play..
okay that makes sense i didnt think it through much..sorry mr. armless..
@profii: processing.........gimme time..

And yet more reasons why I feel xwing is Robert's scumbuddy.

xwing was looking for any angle to cast shade on the conftown to make them not be conftown. (In a very either-MathBlade-or-Titus-I-forget-which-of-the-two-used-this-tacticesque way.) When the angle pursued was shut down, xwing was forced to back down, but this was not a town train to be going down in the first place.

[mastina]

Why do you think you owe me a vote.

I owe you a vote because a personal philosophy of mine is to always place a vote down outside of lylo (because the only universal weapons of the town are their voice and your VOTE, thus, not using your vote is equally as negligent to me as not using your voice), and you

should

have been the lynch yesterday.

Robert reeked even stronger than xwing did on D1 of a scumbuddy who was reluctant to bus, being eventually convinced to hop on--in his case, as the hammer vote. He did everything he could to try and not be on that wagon, and only when it was inevitable did he hammer, with great reluctance. That is what I was trying to say yesterday but didn't get an opportunity to show.

And then yesterday, this scumness continued. We wagoned Robert--but at the last minute, this was diverted onto Wagonomics.

And today, people are trying to do the same thing.
We wagoned Robert to L-1.

And now, people are trying to divert onto profii.

How many days will you go wagoning Robert up, only to decide to switch to a player that then flips town, before you realize you shouldn't have switched off his wagon?

[profii]

^^^ I'll claim when people have read and processed the above. If you read that and still think I'm scum, you're either scum or mad

[Nikk]

My vote stands. Profli was a key contributor to moving from moving off Robert to Wagon. So if you are saying Robert is narrowly avoiding the noose and this makes him scum wouldn't logically stand to reason to look at who started to push away and onto Wagon?

[schadd_]

;

[schadd_]

,