Excalibur [Endgame]

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trying to resist the urge to duel Elsa rn

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lol you're cute

I'll vig you last

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holy quarterbacking, batman

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hey LLD

are we finally on the same side? will you join me in a Day 1 slam dunk scum lynch on Elsa?

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Honestly, we get more value from having a strong town leader claim the sword rather than using it as a jank cop on bad town that no one wants to keep around anyway.

But the issue I realized just now is if I say "I'm taking it" I can just be shot to prevent it.

So we need two powerful town leaders both agreeing "we're taking it" so scum can only shoot one of us.

You and I or Myself and UT or even You and UT I'd be ok with, though I obviously prefer myself.

I volunteer as tribute

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if anything I followed LLD?

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Ya'll are hard over-thinking this shit, which, imo, is what scum wants.
It's really fuckin' simple.

Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2, Merlin claims to become IC and, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
Town has 2 ICs on D2 and a secret BP IC or
Town has 1 IC on D2 and a secret BP Vig IC
If Non-confirmed-Arthur town gets the sword, they never attempt to vig with it because they are just going to shoot themselves in the foot 12 out of 14 times.

And that's it.
There's no more optimal play around it.
If you try to publicly gate who goes for the sword, you don't account for
1. Townies that disregard this shit
2. Scum having control of killing claimants/not
Basically playing around it as a public cop only works once and even then it's iffy.

Our goal should be to shut the fuck up and stop tilting who may or may not be Merlin and just scumhunt
There's no more point to discussing the Sword mechanics.

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@Varsoon: He said confirmed *in* LyLo, not claiming in LyLo, there's a difference, right?
You don't think Merlin/Swordholder works better as a hidden IC till the day before LyLo, as opposed to coming out in D2 where he becomes an obvious NK?

It's not confirmable.

An example from 3p LYLO.
Player 1: I'm Merlin and have the sword
Player 2: No, I'm Merlin and have the sword
Player 3: Oh no! This plan had an obvious hole in it! Who could have ever predicted it!

I don't love us trying to "solve" the game like it's a fucking math problem. What I've seen in other games when this happened was scum got to hide in mechanics talk all game instead of having to actually engage with other players.

oh and no thanks on hurt tags. I say you gladiate your scum reads. I joined this game because the mechanics were different. Let's keep it different.

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this is a fun game because it gives over half the game the chance to be BP vig. Who doesn't want that power? I'm claiming the sword every time I can and I'm going to try to vig shit. If I die I die. I'm more interested in having a unique experience than I am in trying to game the setup to be something it wasn't designed to be.

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Well it depends on how many videos/gifs you post.
Under 10 a day I might just betray u

how many gifs to buy your loyalty

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Whoever gets the sword should not be shooting.

you don't tell the King what to do

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something else is the optimal way to win the game

I'm curious what part of those quotes tells you that I thought anything suggested was "optimal", since I said burying the thread in mechanics talk was the opposite of that since it allows scum players to hide

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like, that's not even an uncharitable interpretation of what I said. it's just straight up putting words in my mouth.

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I'm more interested in having a unique experience than I am in trying to game the setup to be something it wasn't designed to be.

This part reads to me a lot like you saying you'd rather have fun than win the game

I mean that's probably true of me generally, but not moreso in this game than any other?

UT what do you think of LLD?

eh? town enough. I wouldn't vig LLD tonight.

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I'm more interested in having a unique experience than I am in trying to game the setup to be something it wasn't designed to be.

This part reads to me a lot like you saying you'd rather have fun than win the game

Looks like you're trying to lead him to say he's anti-town.

I mean, that is a thing that is happening yes but he's like willfully misinterpreting a post of mine and is trying to catch me in some kind of imaginary scumslip. It's dumb and sad and I might as well respond to it now because it seems like he's just gonna bang on about it until I do.

I'm not particularly ashamed to say this: I play games to have fun, I feel like if I turn a game into a miserable experience for the other players I have in a larger way lost even if I win. Trying to take this setup, which is centered around a bulletproof vig, gladiator lynches, and a Merlin character, and trying to yell at people until they nullify it into being some kind of weird IC-finder and normal lynch game is not something I'm going to go along with. That's not fun for me, especially since I have the potential to be the bulletproof vig. I'm gonna try to be the bulletproof vig and I'm gonna kill anime avatars until the game ends.

I've played (and won) plenty of games where I was toxic or focused on mechanics for the sake of being able to say "Yeah but I won" and I never enjoyed the victories. Thus, I always play to my wincon, but I also always play to have fun.

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OK

and again, I never said you said anything, I asked you a question, saying I was leading you to say something or putting words in your mouth is a misrepresentation on it's own

Did Glenn Beck rape and murder a girl in 1999???

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I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS

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Also UT, I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knowyo ... urder-hoax

Might be before your time

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I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

I noticed you stopped arguing about the game just to pester me, why don't you go do something else?

Huh? It's a particular type of argument tactic where you try to make people defend themselves for something they didn't do. That directly relates.

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Lynching confirmed town seems I dunno kinda scummy?

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Town intentionally killing itself so that town can eventually get a Vig that'll more often than not just kill more town is an awful idea.

See and it's also a perfect example of how scum could be able to hide in "lol this is optimal play tho" mechanics talk

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it's a non-negligible possibility, and we should be prepared to deal with it if it happens.

WHO DO YOU IMAGINE DOING THIS THOUGH?

Why is it actually a non-negligible possibility and why is it worth talking about right now when it is so remote?

You know there's no way I can objectively prove the likelihood of this. I can imagine UT doing this (set the vig apart), he literally said "just gladiate your scumreads".

Buddy if you think as king Arthur I'm going to be gladiating people you are sorely mistaken

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First of all that's shitty behavior because I'd be trying to remove the town's ability to choose lynches and that would make the game really not fun for everyone else

Second I wouldn't give scum an avenue to kill me even if it's remote

Third I'm not gonna pretend that only my reads are valid so other people need to be getting in there and accusing people

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Reading is tech

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I should probably be more critical of UT and LLD but their posts and bullishness regarding the mechanics resonates with me a lot.

varsoon is a bully confirmed.

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UT the only person i love in this playerlist is Dva. But don't tell her.

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If you are not the rightful owner of the sword, you will die instead of your target when you try to vig someone.

If the player who has the Excalibur dies, then it becomes publicly unclaimed again. You cannot willingly unclaim the sword.

Merlin cannot just outright say who Arthur is, because Mafia Nightkill resolves before the claiming of the sword.

unless the vig resolves at a different time than the mafia kill, the sword would be unclaimed at the claiming phase if the holder died that night.

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Also I think we should limit ourselves to 2 Hurts at maximum and FoS for the rest.

I could actually be persuaded to do the whole Hurt thing if we only have one or two and keep track of it like an actual VC.

Hell, I'll even volunteer to be the person who keeps track.

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so who wants to tell her

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my objection was twofold:

1. The setup is designed around dueling and I joined it specifically for that mechanic (along with the excalibur vig). People being able to say "Fuck it, 1v1" is why this setup is unique. Plus, it will force people to take stands in situations they would not have to in an ordinary setup. It's not the Hurts necessarily, it's people trying to box the entire playerlist into not playing the setup as it's designed when it was the primary reason some of us joined. I'm okay with keeping track of people's reads and top scumspects, but I think it's horseshit to tell people not the play the setup the way it's designed.

2. I am wary of any manner of play that allows people to not take real stands on their reads. That's why votes are great. If we at least treat Hurts like they're a vote and people have to actually answer for them then sure I'll acquiesce to that just being for me a method of how we keep track of reads in a voteless game and for others something more serious. We're at least basically all on the same page there. Otherwise it's wishy washy nonsense that is a waste of everyone's time and allows scum to hide.

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Like, a number of people have said "omg you want to hurt TOWN COHESION" but all I saw in that plan (the one of "omg only duel if everyone agrees to it") is a way for scum to hide slash direct town to mislynches. I'm guessing the fantasy is that you'll somehow convince scum to duel each other, but I don't think that ever really happens. Otherwise my experience tells me that it's not materially any better than someone just dueling a strong scumread.

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yeah I never said I wanted "a yoloduel fest". you're arguing against a position I never took. we're actually on a similar page although you care more about coordination than I do but I'm willing to work with you on that

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Get gladiated.

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In BoR, FakeGod made a comment post-game about how he meant for town to use the desperadoes optimally when doing balance. So for UT to argue against that concept is a massive scum sign.

Ah yes, remember when I did that point by point refutation of a thing from a different game that I wasn't in

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Auro has about 25% of the posts in this thread. How about some concision, guy.

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won't tell us much since scum would and could easily bus him. only good thing about it is he will probably be lynched or vigged before endgame anyway.

you haven't played with me much, have you

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I drive the bus, son

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It gives you an excuse to ignore the person to push a policy lynch that could be scum motivated

it's almost as if trying to force everyone to play the game by blindly following some kind of mechanics-based plan benefits scum more than town

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I was??? Hold please I have no memory of this.

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Oh that's right, I was in the middle of Army school and had to replace out because I had no time or energy for the game. Literally no memory of anything that happened in that game nor did I read some kind of retrospective about gladiators so my point stands

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as a town player, you have as much a chance of being Arthur as anyone else so I can't think of any compelling reason why you shouldn't try

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Elsa if you're going to challenge LLD just do it and stop doing the whole hold me back thing since it's if nothing else not making people *less* likely to vote you

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as a town player, you have as much a chance of being Arthur as anyone else so I can't think of any compelling reason why you shouldn't try

how do you know im town, sir?

what if i'm scum?

That'd be even better

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Gladiate MariaR

What happened to me? What about Elsa? You're all over the place here dude.

What is going on with you this game?

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I guess my problem is that LLD makes this play as either alignment and I'm having a hard time discerning Maria's alignment

My gut says scum maria but I dont know why. LLD can you sell me on it plz. Something other than "read her"

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I intend to hammer

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depends on what "the plan" is

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What do you think about my idea? Where Maria (and nobody else) claims the sword if LLD flips scum?

do I think that scum kill the townie before they become confirmed town

yes, yes I do

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I mean, if one person goes for the sword and the entire game knows who it is they either die that night or are the only real lynch choice the next day

I can't think of any town motivation here for that plan

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I don't think they killed him because he was onto something.

Why

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Firebringer is Arthur

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no I am arthur

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I'm Cho'Gath

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Disappointed by lynch flip but tbh it was necessary, LLD was playing extremely erratically and would have had to go at some point.

so I don't love this post... feels like a guilty conscience

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did someone claim to having the sword and I missed it?

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If UT is really Arthur, then we’re fucked.

hey now why do you say that

also I'm not MIA you jerk

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Have you never seen scum say stuff like that after a mislynch?

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It's almost as if it's a different thing that I'm seeing than in that game

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not really

a reaction to a flip is "not really" different from day 1 behavior?

It's almost as if it's a different thing that I'm seeing than in that game

You’d be well served to explain if that’s the case

why? he's not up for a lynch at the moment. it'd just be distracting from the choice we have to make right now.

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this feels just like The Thing mafia, which is to say that the scum are running the game and the entire town is all deciding to be potato heads instead of stopping them

like, I don't want to lynch Fire because I think he's town but I just don't understand wtf he is even trying to do here

everything the active players are writing just comes across to me as weird scummy word salad

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I don't know

I guess I'm just gonna

vote Fire

because No Lynching seems even fucking worse

hopefully Arthur has the sword and will shoot scum tonight

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and here I was worried I wouldn't know what to do during today's lynch

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Ugh

I've been shit this game tbh. I'll gladiate Penguin since we're both widely scumread. I have no problem doing that.

So to the people who are saying I have to be scum, what are you going to do after I flip town?

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why gladiate Penguin over me?

lol probably because we're scum together remember

that's the going theory right now, right? or am I mixing up my lazy-ass scumreads?

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and UT, the cog-dis in 2852 and 2856 is very blatant. and i rarely say that.

what are you talking about?

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Scum need to scrape out two more mislynches in a row, here.

yeah and it's likely that the ball is in the dealer's hand here

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great job town

you really earned this one