Open 74 - C/9ths (Game Over!) before 601

[Eldritch Lord]

Random voting is scummy imo.

[Eldritch Lord]

So does any form of talking, assuming both sides of the discussion are willing to converse.

Vote: Mokina

Bandwagoning with a parenthetical excuse is still bandwagoning.

[Eldritch Lord]

Discussion is good Mokina, but what's up with the

dayvig

call by TSN?

[Eldritch Lord]

There's nothing wrong with a good ol' bandwagon now and then. Apart from the discussion aspect, bandwagons are a useful scumhunting tool. And don't think you're above it; you just bandwagoned with donkeyz12212 against me.

I'm not going to push it, however, as I don't really have anything to go on besides the fact that you voted for me. Still, I find random voting rather scummy, why would we eliminate one of our members by voting for them if we didn't know anything about them--or hardly anything. There's a greater chance the person will come up Town. So, until we know more, since we have no deadline I'm going to try to avoid setting up an easy hammer.

Unvote

Slight FoS: Mokina

[Eldritch Lord]

Don't jump to conclusions, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that Day 1 has no deadline thus far, so there's no need to rush Day 1. Voting no-lynch is affordable on Day 1 when you have this many people, but that doesn't make it smart--it's still a pretty pro-Scum move.

[Eldritch Lord]

Hm, after re-reading my post to see if I caused any confusion, I realized that I specifically stated that I meant we should wait because we have no deadline on Day 1.

Please read my posts completely.

[Eldritch Lord]

That was directed towards Snix, just to be clear.

[Eldritch Lord]

I don't think its suspicious at all, putting pressure on people is a good way to learn more about them (how they react, if they procrastinate or shrug responsibility, etc.), and more importantly how scummy they are(n't). It's not a quick-lynch, it's just pressure. However, it is kind of odd that Mokina would defend random voting--but still concede that random lynching is bad.

Vote Snix

For buddying up with Mokina since early game, and because I think a MokinaXSnix scumpair is viable from what I've seen as of so far. Though, to be honest buddying up the way you have is probably a bit too obvious a scumtell to come from intelligent, experienced players such as yourselves. That is why I am voting for you, Snix, rather than Mokina; because although I am suspicious of the both of you--she has more votes and I would like to see how this ganging up you guys have thus far seemed fond of changes in reaction to this post rather than pushing for a lynch.

[Eldritch Lord]

To not have a scumpair at any given time is a waste, I find it more efficient to put specific people under near-ludicrous scrutiny rather than kind of scan over everyone and have a chance of missing the scum.

Also, I don't agree at all with TSN until this page, rather than doing it from the start of the game. We have different interests, the common one is getting some pressure on Snix. I actually have something to go on, although I'd like to hear his reasoning a bit more.

[Eldritch Lord]

Yes, perhaps I voiced my opinion a bit too strongly, or worded it in the wrong manner. Allow me to clarify ZS, I don't want a random lynch or a no lynch, I don't think it would be a good idea.

And yes, they are slightly suspicious which is why I have turned a majority of my focus towards them. No one else has done something that catches my eye as much as this--though Mokina does seem to be earnest enough.

[Eldritch Lord]

Thank you for posting a vote based on my playstyle rather than content or scum-clues and offering no actual reasoning right before a period when you know you'll have limited access to mafiascum.net It makes perfect sense.

Anyways, how about we give Snix a chance to voice his thoughts. There we go, Snix, open mic.

[Eldritch Lord]

Also, could we get a

Prod: All Members Not Yet Posting

?

[Eldritch Lord]

Thank you for posting a vote based on my playstyle rather than content or scum-clues and offering no actual reasoning right before a period when you know you'll have limited access to mafiascum.net It makes perfect sense.

I keep forgetting to add quotes to my posts, this was directed towards Darla.

So you vote me for

agreeing with someone

, on something that is commonly accepted as true? How are people following you? So far your most convincing argument is that we both are voting you. We agree with each other, how is that wrong?

Neither of these agreements-the vote or the random-lynch is extraordinary by itself. But your stubborn resistance to let go of a vote that seems to be going nowhere thus far, combined with both of these agreements with Mokina is slightly suspicious. Mokina has backed off and shared the same reasoning as yourself (which you admit) and yet you refuse to back off. Has your logic reached a schism with Mokina's or are you covering your own ass rather than scumhunting? (Because if you truly believe that Mokina is still right, there is no reason you should be voting for me, so the only logical pro-Town answer would be that you no longer agree with Mokina.)

Who we really need to be looking at right now is TSN. He comes on after some comedical dayvig and promptly tells you to chill down and then votes me anyway without so much as a lick of his own reasoning.

My vote stands because anyone that attacks someone for an entirely OMGUS reason should be scrutinized.

This almost screams self-interest that goes beyond finding the actual scum. Why would you "really need to be looking at TSN" and still hold your vote for me? 'Attacking' *read: Pressuring* someone for an entirely OMGUS action is more important than casting bandwagon votes without reasoning in your mind? Is it more scummy? {Eagerly awaiting your reply.}

[Eldritch Lord]

'Attacking' *read: Pressuring* someone for an entirely OMGUS action is more important than casting bandwagon votes without reasoning in your mind?

My ability to proofread escapes me for some reason, I meant to say:

'Attacking' *read: Pressuring* someone for an entirely OMGUS action is more important than casting bandwagon votes without vocalizing any of your reasoning?

Sorry for the pointless double post.

[Eldritch Lord]

Do not mistake game-motivating pressure for anger/passion. Truly, I have nothing against you for disagreeing with me on this random-lynch/random-vote issue, I have not attacked ZombieSlayer or Sideney for disagreeing with me. It is not personal, it is simply this:

1. The random vote you held for me even after you said donkey did something suspicious

2. The fact that you held that vote in synchrony with Mokina's until after I called it to light, which is when you chose to disagree with her.
3. The trap-question directed towards myself, a new player, that would have likely resulted in a quicker lynch if I had answered it in a manner not expected of Town. (Yes, I am new).
4. The fact that you are so quick to call your fellow townies "dumb", doubt their logic (Mokina), and claim that I also went ballistic on ZS and Sideney for disagreeing with me (if that's really the only reason I hate you, it would be true that I hate them as well) Despite the fact I think Mokina may possibly, might, kind of be scum--if you think she's town you shouldn't be so quick to doubt her logic, especially after agreeing with it for so long.

[Eldritch Lord]

Agreed, Iron Man; it's been a while since we've heard from some other players. I'll give them a chance to respond, assess the situation based on the reaction of the others.

[Eldritch Lord]

Or was that sarcasm? Kind of hard to tell.

If it was, play style is STILL a big thing in deciphering whether or not someone is scum.

It was sarcasm, which was probably a poor choice on my part as sarcasm has a tendency to lose its value somewhere between the fingers and the keyboard. Still, if I were to say vote for you with no reasoning whatsoever, simply saying "I don't like his playstyle" which is exactly what Darla did, you wouldn't like it. That sarcasm was my way of asking her if she had any logical process she could share. So allow me to be more direct, Darla: Do you have any reason beyond "not liking my playstyle" for voting for me?

I'm still watching you, but like I said, holding a vote without reasoning is a bad move... and one I would be loath to commit.

She had no reason to hold the vote. FoS'ing her into hopping on your bandwagon seems like a tad too much.

Unvote

FoS: ZombieSlayer54

Popping once a day to post some giant rant, joining a bandwagon, and FoS'ing other people for already justified vote-drops does not a Townie make. (Mokina felt she had nothing to go on, and did say she would continue to watch me.) Snix still catches my eye, but I will reserve my judgment at this time, he made some good points regarding my logic. Something you failed to do, ZS--Your rant was nothing more than that, an emotionally zealous rant.

[Eldritch Lord]

Mokina: How do you feel about ZombieSlayer and Snix?

Just out of curiosity.

[Eldritch Lord]

I see an exact, pointless repetition of Snix's logic combined with insulting, emotionally-charged monologue. Calm down.

Also, Mokina-my question stands.

[Eldritch Lord]

HAND OF SUSPICION!: Mike-Zim

*Dramatic Music Plays*

For epic lurking, and hopping to suggest a no-lynch. Yes, it may be a cautious town move, but with all that's happened thus far, I find it hard to believe you don't find someone just a tad bit suspicious-or that you would have a motive not to say so if you did.

[Eldritch Lord]

Vote: Lowell

You voted Snix to give my argument some legs, the thing is my argument barely had a base. I am shamelessly starting a Lowell wagon. Discuss.

[Eldritch Lord]

So, ZS do you make it habit to

FoS

everyone who will not agree with your attempts to bandwagon: so far this has included Mokina and Snix in less than a 1 page span. It seems as though you love to pressure people into bandwagoning by FoS'ing them and its about as close as you can get to an OMGUS without it actually being and OMGUS.

I am not defending Snix, I just find your attempts to be forceful and it seems as though you assume a false mantle of leadership--where your logic has always been a bland repetition of previous posts and the logic of others'. Later you FoS Snix despite the fact that you "share" his logic in the very same post, that is unless something changed halfway through posting.

I don't think you're scum, I just think you try too hard to get people to agree with you.

[Eldritch Lord]

Can I ask you why you are holding onto my vote, Darla?

Does it go beyond playstyle at all?

[Eldritch Lord]

YOUR OPINION MEANS THE WORLD TO ME! /cry

Actually, its simply because you are the only person actually voting for me with some slim chance of your vote making sense. So, as soon as you finish reading (and if your vote still stands), it'd be really awesome to hear your reasoning.

[Eldritch Lord]

Scratch what I said. Both Eldritch and Snix are annoying the crap out of me.

Translation: I'm thinking about an OMGUS.

[Eldritch Lord]

Okay, I will line up the reasons I think Lowell will either cling onto Snix or hop onto me. I had not realized how baseless my accusations sound.

1. He says he likes to keep talkative newbies in the game--this changes the second I recognize his pattern.

2. His pattern just happens to be that he jumps on whoever I'm attacking--this includes you Mokina, for whom he posted a pseudo-random vote on page 2 despite the fact that there was an actual argument taking place he could have taken part in.

3. He then proceeds to vote for Snix to give my "ideas" legs--at that point, you believed that there was no case against him. Soon after this, so did I...which is why I found his blatant bandwagon extremely suspicious. I had nothing to go on-and neither did he. He now will not remove his vote from Snix to anyone other than one of the two (me and Snix) currently being threatened with a bandwagon that may actually result in lynch. This is because he is afraid that once people have called attention to the lack of substance in his posts, he will be the new target.

4. Furthermore, TSN--another quite suspicious fellow--have also buddied up since the beginning of the game and don't seem to be scumhunting so much as posting random votes on people whose bandwagons are just starting up with TSN making at least a small effort to conceal this fact with sparsely filled posts that are more space than text.

//Analysis Complete

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP:

3. To clarify, I mean that at that point you had no suspicion towards Snix, and believed that there was no reason to be suspicious of Snix. This means that you probably disagreed with Lowell's logic, so it would be kind of ridiculous to agree with it now because Snix has said things that seem (from your PoV) significantly more scummy. This new information regarding Snix does not invalidate the original baselessness of Lowell's bandwagon on aforementioned player.

[Eldritch Lord]

Hm, I think you missed the sarcasm in the first statement. I was simply curious as to why you were voting for me--since you had up until then provided absolutely zero reason beyond "his playstyle". The caps and slash cry were because you seemed to be continuously dodging the question because you were simultaneously "catching up" and reading the newest posts---it was a joke, you think I care about your vote way more than I do.

I care a bit about your vote because I don't want a town lynch (myself) on Day 1, but I also don't think your vote is going anywhere given how scummy Lowell, Mike-Zim, and other more suspicious members of this game have been.

That was not an emotional reaction, and not once in playing this game have I felt the need for emotional response. I'm a /b/'er, I lost my soul long ago.

[Eldritch Lord]

ZS, allow me to clarify: You try too hard to get people to agree with you in a manner that is demeaning, bullying, and emotional. It's hard to believe someone is making an attempt at logic when all they're doing is slightly switching up the words of another person and caps'ing votes based on the fact that I frequent another forum.

You are so locked in lynching me, you've ignored the rampant scuminess of other posters in this thread. Regardless of the outcome of Day 1, I do not believe I will be playing with you in the future. It is not fun when someone takes this game so seriously that I can hear screaming coming out of my speakers when I read the text.

You are too emotional, and guided by this stubborn, ignorant anger that you have continued to throw around at people so much that you've essentially alienated your way from everyone. You are, in my opinion, too emotional to be playing this game. I don't expect you to listen to my opinion, or to read a great deal of the reasoning Mokina has left behind without belittling it to one-liners and accepting possibilities that don't incriminate me personally (like the one TSN suggested). Or even to actually define your reasoning for voting on anything based on something other than "I don't like him because he said no-lynch is good" which is a statement I have now retracted.

You post about 3 sentences and somehow elongate it to last 5 paragraphs. More content, less angry yelling please. Now, I will watch you more scrutinizingly as well as Darla, because you have not paid heed to the reasoning posted by Snix, Mokina, and myself and instead pursued me relentlessly more based on emotion than what you refer to as "logic" (i.e. repeated phrases that are nothing more than cleverly disguised rhetoric for the same thing you posted the last time).

*This post was made in clear state of mind, without anger and an opinion that ZombieSlayer54 is not enjoyable to play with regardless of his role; with a total separation from any emotion (other than perhaps a slight amusement at the simple-minded manner ZS goes about in dealing with other players).*

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP: We would still like to hear from you Lowell. A little more than one-liners and bandwagoning, if you will.

[Eldritch Lord]

This isn't about "how much you like someone" this is about finding scum. If I were trying to play this game based on pleasing people or how much I liked someone, I would've voted for him long ago. I disagree with his judgment, because he's calling me scum--and doing so in an insulting manner (which he has been long before I had anything to say to him). I am not scum, I will not stand by and let myself get bandwagoned by the people who are currently on my case, sorry.

[Eldritch Lord]

Point taken and understood.

I'd like to get that business behind us, Darla and ZS can keep their votes for me. And Mike-Zim, your vote needs to be bolded, although I think you missed the point of TSN's post.

I will be waiting to hear from Lowell, and more defense from Snix--who could really use it at L-5 (I think).

[Eldritch Lord]

Okay, yet again...I am going to have to go out on a limb here and say to everyone involved in this world war of text that IT IS JUST A GAME!!! ZombieSlayer, Eldritch, one word...chill. Both of you need to calm down. I'm not positive, but I think I speak for everyone when I say that having to read a freaking novel about why so and so is scummy every time I log on is kinda annoying.

Is this your first game?

I agree that most games I've read seem like walls of text regarding the alignment of other players, but I also agree that this argument between ZS and I is no longer even about scumminess-but personal opinion and has no relevance to the game.

However, dcorbe, your :goodposting: (139) is spot on. Lowell--still waiting to hear from you. Been waiting a page and a half of conversation. Also, Snix, any thoughts relevant to the game. If we ignore the ZS/EL feud, I think we'll get back to the core issue: Lowell's lack of posting and obvious bandwagoning on players at L-2 or above.

[Eldritch Lord]

The problem is, as I've read them, they've seemed like regurgitated version's of Snix's arguments. Which I also addressed and submitted to his superior reasoning in that particular case. So that 'argument'/'debate' has been settled. I don't understand what you're still looking for.

Repost and clarify and I'll do my best to answer. Although I think we should be putting the focus on Lowell and Snix primarily.

[Eldritch Lord]

Mokina, I urge you to pay special heed to Lowell's posts (both the lack thereof, as well as the lack of content with them).

I agree, it's time we move on from this pseudo-random stage.

unFoS: Everyone I'm Not Voting For

Final Vote for Day 1: Lowell

This is of course barring any revelation brought on by a good re-read or some very good explaining on Lowell's part. At this point however, I seriously encourage you to speak up Lowell, as I would not at all mind you being Day One's lynch--given how things have gone thus far.

Other possible candidates at this point, for me:
DarlaBlueEyes
ZombieSlayer54
Snix

[Eldritch Lord]

I'm simply asking for repost in a clarified manner.

[Eldritch Lord]

It's odd how everyone says Lowell is extremely suspicious, but refuses to cast a vote in his direction...

Post count and content so far has been extremely low. Extreme lurking and when he does pop up its to bandwagon without explanation. Darla, there is nothing to react to. I am holding fast to my position that your vote is baseless--I've given up trying to convince you otherwise, those who are persuadable will be persuaded. My focus right now isn't on that--its on Lowell who has yet to post in response to my concerns.

[Eldritch Lord]

Donkeyz, what do you need to know about Lowell's actions before you feel a vote is justifiable?

Just curious, there may be something I have overlooked that clears his name.

[Eldritch Lord]

Voting for him will force him out of these one-liners and lurking. These non-contributions just make it easier for mafia to deceive others, the town needs every eye it can get on the lookout for mafia.

The fact that we have so little to judge is the reason we want to call him out.

[Eldritch Lord]

Also, EL seems very agitated at me for keeping my vote on him for what are in his words, no good reasons, When I do have them, I have stated them, And his reaction to my vote that isn't even that threatening seems very suspect as well.

He hasn't done much scum hunting, Attacking ZS who reacts very emotionally but whome I think is town, and singling out a lurker, who gave reasonale excuse for his absence in a recent post.

I'd liek to see him do more to locate scum and this Alliance with Mokina to be scrutinized.

Agitated? I told you I don't care because I truly don't believe you'll bandwagon me with Lurkers like Lowell pushing bandwagon votes with no explanation. Sorry, but if you can get on, you shouldn't vote unless you have time for an explanation--no matter what your excuse is, this is the internet and it can be faked.

The absence, if you believe the excuse--is forgivable. He still has not contributed much to the town, and has contributed far less scumhunting than I have. If you've noticed, he has posted little to no content and is not contributing at all to the town's effort.

We can always put your theory on a Mokina/EL scum alliance to the test.

We can lynch EL today (since his bandwagon is already being pushed, he's the logical choice).

We've got a 1/12 chance of being correct but whether we are correct or not, it would be a very educational experience.

If he turns out to be scummy, we can build a strong case to push a Mokina wagon tomorrow.

Please note I'm NOT advocating that we rush towards a Lynch. I would like to see how others react to this idea, and keep the conversation going.

So town should go for the easier target because its a faster lynch, rather than based on scumminess? Yet you don't want to push a lynch?

This has me confused. You are agreeing with each other's logic in the same instance as pushing for a lynch based on Mokina and I agreeing on each other's logic. See the conflict?

I'd liek to see him do more to locate scum and this Alliance with Mokina to be scrutinized.

We can always put YOUR theory on a Mokina/EL scum alliance to the test. We can lynch EL today (since his bandwagon is already being pushed, he's the logical choice).

I don't know if that's as clear to the rest of town as it is to me.

[Eldritch Lord]

Meta-Game: Dcorbe and Darla, if you are going to make a point regarding the scuminess of Mokina and I (or the scumbuddiness rather), please do not make it in regards to meta-game help (such as the explanation between the difference of random voting and random lynching and no-lynching conventions).

In-Game: If you could bullet your points Darla, would it look something like this?

1. EL has been emotional regarding ZS and myself.

-By the same logic, ZS has also been emotional, is he suspect?

2. EL has done very little scumhunting.

-With your vote sitting on me this whole game, neither have you.

3. Mokina agrees with him, rather suddenly.

-I hope you're looking at Dcorbe, Snix, and TSN as well in this case. As well as every MafiaScum player to ever bandwagon on Day 1 simply because there was little evidence to use that could be spun in numerous ways.

4. He is agitated by my vote.

-If I voted with you simply because dcorbe agreed with you, you've spent too much time looking at me to do any scum hunting, and I think you've been emotional as well, would you think my vote was based on you or the work of those around you. Perhaps you should look at the people agreeing with me so quickly (i.e. Lowell) and others rather than laser-beaming your focus on me.

Does your model vary? If not, this should answer all of your questions.

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP: My answer to 4.

It should read:

If I voted for you right now simply because dcorbe agreed with you, you've spent too much time looking at me to do any scum hunting with the rest of the town, and I think you've been emotional as well, would you think my vote was based on you or the work of those around you. Perhaps you should look at the people agreeing with me so quickly in positions where you think I'm wrong.

I'd be happy to answer any amendments you have to these (rather quickly) predicted points.

[Eldritch Lord]

Meta-Game Comment (i.e. This is just an idle observation with no "hurry-up" implications): This is a very long Day 1 compared to most other games I've read.

I think I will reserve any type of response until we hear from Iron Man, Sideney, Snix, Mike-Zim, ZombieSlayer54, and the rest of the town gives their opinions on this matter.

[Eldritch Lord]

And good luck pressuring lowell. Its been tried.

It's true. I'm immune from all conventional social pressures.

Besides, the "pressure", as far as I can see, has a life cycle of about 8 hours, until you anxious nutcases find a new target. Not exactly a super way to get lurkers talking, if indeed that is your goal.

Eldritch, you give yourself too much credit. I don't want you dead (yet), I just want you to be less annoying.

So you won't be participating in the town anymore than you currently are?

At any rate, that's what I'm getting from this post. It was a pressure vote before, but I'm getting closer and closer to wanting you lynched.

[Eldritch Lord]

I think Lowell exerts this aura about him that screams "LYNCH ME, I DARE YA" and then turn up townie. I think he's more unhelpful than anything so I don't know if he is scum material. At any rate, the person most suspicious for me right now is Darla Blue Eyes

She makes 15 posts and changes her suspicions so many times that its confusing the heck out of me. Let's begin shall we with

Post 1 - Darla questions why TSN votes for Lowell on D1
Post 2 - Votes Iron Man
Post 3 - Votes Eldritch - Doesn't like his play style
Post 4 - Revotes Eldritch - Forgot to bold
Post 5 - Update post. She says she will post later
Post 6 - Asks Mokina why she defends EL. Indicates IC's not needed since this is not a noob game
Post 7 - Says she will read later

Post 8 - Understands that EL is new and thus his reaction to things.

- This post confuses me. She states

You don't handle the pressure well, which makes me want to keep my vote on you until I see more scummy actions from someone else.

Also you have been jumping around alot on your stance of players such as Mokina.

I just don't like how you are playing, thus my vote stands for now. [/b]

her reasons for keeping vote on Eldritch?
1. She wants to keep pressure on him
2. He jumps around on player's stances
3. She doesn't like how he's playing.

Reasonable suspicions? I don't know

Post 9 -Doesn't know why she's considered a lurker
Post 10 - Not in favor of a Snix bandwagon. Thinks EL and ZS could be linked but unlikely
Post 11 - Suspicious of EL, ZS, Donkeyz. Still not unvoting EL until pressure is done. Doesn't explain why donkeyz is suspicious except for seeing signs.
Post 12 - Concerned about Mokina - Another suspect.
Post 13 - Trying to draw more heat on EL
Post 14 - Suspects are EL, Mokina, and Dcorbe. Apparently ZS and Donkeyz dropped off the list.

I think Darla is giving options to the town as to who to lynch. She doens't offer any strong or concrete cases. She kind of plays with EL by keeping her vote on him continuously and just using reasons such as "I want to put pressure on him." After a couple of days however, the vote is still on him and there been plenty of people harping at him. So isn't that pressure enough?

It's highly suspicious her gameplay. And how she constantly jumps from suspect to suspect, at least going with how the village is doing. Only exception is Snix who she doens't think is scum.

My vote

unvote, vote: DarlaBlueEyes

I agree that most of Darla's posts, FoS', and her vote on me are ill-defined and rather illogical--and the claim that she's scumhunting is rather stupid considering none of her posts have been dedicated to pressuring anyone but myself.

I would like to hear why you chose to back the suggestion of my lynch if you really disagree with her enough to vote for her.

I would also like to hear more from her in defense of herself. My votes jump around because my perception does as well, I don't hold my pseudo-random vote for 8 pages but that doesn't mean that I jump around for no reason.

unvote

FoS: DarlaBlueEyes

FoS: Donkeyz

Sounds like a distancing post to me, after coming under scrutiny from the other players for your quick agreeance.

[Eldritch Lord]

I approve of this bandwagon for the aforementioned reasons.

Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

[Eldritch Lord]

Sorry for Triple Post, but could we also get a

Prod: Iron Man

?

[Eldritch Lord]

My sincere apologies, but with I overlooked your name Donkeyz--due to your lack of a display picture! >:[

I had assumed you were dcorbe. My vote and reasoning in relation to my vote still stand, with the only edit to my post being that I would like to hear why Dcorbe so quickly agrees with Darla's bandwagon on me and the ZS/EL Theory.

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP: First line of my last post.

It should read: My sincere apologies, but I overlooked your name Donkeyz--due to your lack of a forum avatar! >:[



I realize I have posted 5 times in the past 10 minutes. I'll be taking a break since I seem not to be able to even get words out correctly.

[Eldritch Lord]

Meta-Game: Happy Scumday Mokina!

In-Game:

If EL & Mokina band wagoning is very OMGUSy since I have been accusing them.
If they didn't look scummy before they look hella scummy now. and I never suspected ZS, gave mention to a POSSIBLY alignment but I really didn't believe it. and Since when Is changing your mind or deciding someone isnt scum after reading a few more posts illegal?

Do you understand the logic behind our suspicion. Think about it, you are jumping around on everybody without voting and simultaneously convicting me because I'm jumping my vote around. The only difference--until we get close to lynching someone--is some bold text.

Donkey your case is weak, especially since my first post was responding to a joke and the Iron Man vote was random. Obviously you are quite new as well so I won't hold the crap logic against you. :p

dcorbe's readily accepting my theory (note Theory) is a bit odd, Usually when I present such a case its either amended or disporven, not immediately accepted and pushed to make happen.

I will agree this looks scummy to me.

I really do hope you realize this is the scummiest thing I've heard all game. You are simultaneously telling him that he has craplogic and his case is weak not to mention you while sucking up to him so he'll take your vote off of you. So which is it, is he scummy or is he a towny newbie. This also brings my attention to this:

[quote="DarlaBlueEyes]mokina, can I ask why you feel like it is so necessary to defend EL?

n00b or not, this isnt a newbie game where IC's are needed...so I am just wondering why you are defending him so much? [/quote]

I know I am not the only one who sees this contradiction. Darla, you're going to have to do more than suck up and question-dodge if you want my vote off you, because right now I would like to have you lynched for the sheer satisfaction of seeing the bold words:

scum

.

All-aboard the bandwagon. Choo-choo!

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP:

mokina, can I ask why you feel like it is so necessary to defend EL?

n00b or not, this isnt a newbie game where IC's are needed...so I am just wondering why you are defending him so much?

I know I am not the only one who sees this contradiction. Darla, you're going to have to do more than suck up and question-dodge if you want my vote off you, because right now I would like to have you lynched for the sheer satisfaction of seeing the bold words: scum.

All-aboard the bandwagon. Choo-choo!

It looks prettier that way, and is less confusing.

[Eldritch Lord]

Yes, I was.

The point isn't nearly as revelation-y, but it still stands. She is clearly excusing donkeyz for his "newbiness" while condemning you for doing so with my no-lynch suggestion earlier in this game. The point is she finds donkeyz vote on her for suspicion hopping while she votes for me for vote-hopping.

[Eldritch Lord]

As of late, I cannot type. I quit for today. I will post tomorrow.

/headdesk.

EBWOP: The point is she finds donkeyz vote on her for suspicion hopping newby and stupid, while she votes for me for the same reason.

[Eldritch Lord]

Suddenly I feel like the bully who isn't showing the newbies any favor (btw the comment to Donkeys about his newbieness was called sarcasm) No one showed me any sort favor as a newbie, I was in a game with some of the most feared and respected players on this site and they shredded me. I had to learn to swim or drown, fight or die.

The emotion in this post reeks of irony. I really hope that this post--essentially telling the town to fuck itself is a joke and you've got some killer reasoning coming because that post is ridiculous. Getting upset is not a viable substitute for reason, even I was being emotional along with ZS--at least there was some attempt to justify our actions.

Because I am sure EL is scum but I was going to show him mercy if he reached a near lynch and Re-read one last time before I lynched.

This is exactly what TSN theorized, you are sure I'm scum but for some reason would back off to re-read. To what extent exactly? Do you think you've missed something, because if you do perhaps you should just go re-read now.

So go ahead and lynch me, I am not going to write a big defensive post, I may have looked at other people but I got someone on my scumdar and they won't leave, until they do I am not unvoting.

Suddenly I feel like the bully who isn't showing the newbies any favor (btw the comment to Donkeys about his newbieness was called sarcasm) No one showed me any sort favor as a newbie, I was in a game with some of the most feared and respected players on this site and they shredded me. I had to learn to swim or drown, fight or die.

So will you.

So go ahead and lynch me, I am not going to write a big defensive post, I may have looked at other people but I got someone on my scumdar and they won't leave, until they do I am not unvoting.

And to think, you were upset with others for emotion posting/ad-hom earlier in this game and now you're doing the same exact thing under pressure. Also, that sarcasm part just doesn't ring right with me, I just don't see it.

go ahead and lynch me dudes, because I don't unvote some one and vote hop. *gasp*

There is more to it than that, and you know it. Reducing viable arguments to one-liners does not a good defense make. (Yes, I just Yoda'd that shit.)

[Eldritch Lord]

I'm just constantly on the internet Donkeyz, and had even posted earlier regarding my suspicions towards Darla. Her most recent posts justified a vote, in my opinion if we think someone's scum, and they put up defenses like post 212-- its not a bad idea to lynch them.

[Eldritch Lord]

Sorry for being hostile there...I just get annoyed when people don't see things the way I do....

anyways I am thinking Donkey is town, he doesn't strike me as scum, same for Snix, and TSN,

will do a more in depth analysis of each player shortly

So does everyone, hopefully this will help you be more patient with others as pressure on them increases.

I look forward to your analysis.

[Eldritch Lord]

Unvote

Vote: Sideney

Prod Request: Sideney, Mike-Zim

Darla, my eye is still on you, but I feel that Sideney needs to begin contributing a lot more, and a pressure vote might not be such a bad idea.

In response to the "Freudian slip", it was because I was referring to the Town as a whole. Only 2 of the Town is mafia, so to call everyone stupid is still to call the Town stupid. That was all I meant by it, though I can understand why such a slip would bring attention to myself.

The vote hopping is earnest scum-hunting, TSN is right, I'm trying to lead a charge. I can see that I have essentially, in my haste to clear my own name, created a large case against myself. My focus is simply on hunting down the scum, while simultaneously clearing my name so that we can get someone who is actually Mafia on Day 1 and go from there. It is simply in this spirit that I have been so defensive, although hopefully if I am lynched it will bring suspicion to some of my scum suspects.

I have looked at everyone for scum-tells rather than just one person. That way, I can know a little bit about everyone and if I am wrong (which sometimes happens) about a lynch and someone comes up town I will still have a read on other players still in the game.

I am beginning to think that by scum-hunting (which is what I am trying to do, my perception in regards to others changes with each post they make and each response they give) I have brought so much attention to myself that if I am not lynched, I will be NK'd--at least if this happens it will be clearer that my suspicions will be correct.

Your freudian slip, as you call it, is nothing more than a simple mistake though I have to admit that

in the context you have put it in

it sounds far worse than it is. I urge other players to read the full posts before hopping on my bandwagon for just that reason.

I've realized that the problem with this style of scum-hunting (looking at everyone at once rather than locking onto one person) happens to be that I spend more time defending myself against everyone I've ever voted for than I get to spend scum-hunting.

With that said, there are some things we should keep in mind before so casually dropping our vote at Darla and totally forgetting about Lowell. Keep in mind exactly what Mokina said in regards to Lowell,

Not only that, but replacing lurkers with talkative people is always a good option. Lurker scum don't slip up as much, and lurker town don't contribute as much.

He's been semi-lurking this entire game, Snix has a point. Also, in regards to Darla, this is her first strong post and the first attempt I see at earnest scum-hunting. Post 212 just screams "I give up, you caught me." to me, I don't know how others feel.

I will re-read and post more in regards to the situation later, as I am rather busy at this time.

[Eldritch Lord]

Ah, something that I can also address at this time is the FoS hopping by Mokina and DarlaBlueEyes, the people I vote for are not close to lynch--so the difference between an FoS hop and a vote hop at that time is simply the way the text reads since neither will likely lead to an (immediate) lynch.

[Eldritch Lord]

L-1. Waiting for the hammer.

My dying wish is just that Darla and Mokina get looked into when I come up town. As well as Lowell and Mike-Zim.

And that Sideney gets replaced.

I can't argue this, this is ridiculous. Every time I try to defend myself, it becomes "He's too obsessed with defending himself." Every time I try to scumhunt, I'm just votehopping.

I guess I have to do a bit more studying before I really start playing this game.

[Eldritch Lord]

If you do come up townie when you get lynched, it won't be in vain. It will provide us valuable information to go on for the next round of scum hunting because you've interacted with just about everyone here.

If you come up scummy, all of a sudden those pushing your wagon look extremely clean.

Don't take it personally that you're being lynched on day 1.

The problem is that if I got lynched, it means that I wasn't very good at being Town, so it means I have to go read up on more games to learn exactly how to scumhunt. I could've sworn I was doing it.

I just want Mokina and Darla to know exactly who is on their bandwagon. Look at their content, their lurkerness, or their scumminess. Most of the people on your bandwagon have been accused of lurking by you or some other player and the others have been FoS'd by you earlier in the game. If you're really town, you've got to find something odd about that-but I suspect you're not.

[Eldritch Lord]

Hammer: Please wait. I have come to a realization.

[Eldritch Lord]

Psuedo-Random Vote: TheSweatpantsNinja
Unvote
Vote: Eldritch Lord
Unvote: Eldritch Lord
FoS: Sideney, mike-zim
Unvote
Vote: Snix
Unvote
FoS: sideney
Vote: Lowell
Unvote
Vote: DarlaBlueEyes
Unvote
Vote: EL

I urge some of those on my bandwagon to consider that one of the largest points against me is Vote Hopping, something Mokina has done about as often as I have. Look at the baselessness of some of her votes, and how quickly she rescinds them. This is not OMGUS, I am not just referencing the situation with Darla, but with everyone. If I didn't know better, I'd almost say she had an insanity role.

Darla, my eyes are on you, but if you really are town, I urge you to look at this as well. Mokina seems almost to be as much of a scum follower to you as she was being to me. Look at how quickly she followed my vote on you and then proceeded to follow your vote on me. Or with Snix, or with Lowell.

I will admit to some faults in my playstyle (read: This is not the poor newbie mistake, this is the "shit, I should've actually read what I was saying") but are they enough to warrant a lynch?

The classic Freudian slip has been dismissed by the person who caught it as a slight error, and the vote hopping can't seem like such a huge issue when in comparison to Mokina's own history. If I didn't know better, I'd say she had an insanity role with as much flip-flopping as she's done.

Unvote

Vote: Mokina

In my psych studies, I've found that people often inadvertently try to hunt for their own tells (in games like poker, such as looking for the other guy who unconsciously sips his empty drink, or in mafia scum such as vote-hopping) so it's, from my perspective, entirely possible that although I've been vote-hopping it can be scum-hunting and hers can still be a scumtell.

Look into this, this is not an OMGUS--you will find it makes sense. This is scumhunting as well as a defense, the Town is making a huge mistake in lynching me based on the reasoning Mokina has given.

[Eldritch Lord]

So you specifically stayed on a bandwagon after you said:

Well explained. I urge those who are currently rereading this topic not to judge EL on the tongue-slip alone. Again, because he's new to the game, he probably doesn't make a distinction between "the other townies" and "the other players" yet. In any case, it's a weak reason to convict someone of being scum.

It directly conflicts with:

To be completely honest, EL's Freudian was the only thing I had on him apart from slightly bad logic in his earlier posts. Seeing as the "fellow townies" reference been somewhat attached to his inexperience as well, I'm willing to unvote too.

You just admitted your vote was baseless long before you dropped it, and your drop following so closely after Darla's just reeks of suspicion--especially considering how quickly you dropped your vote against her after saying things like:

You've been doing it an awful lot now, and each time it follows some sort of town suspicion for the person in question. Without changing your vote, you're encouraging poorly-founded bandwagons.

Not only have you admitted to holding a baseless vote--you waited until Darla dropped her vote. When you jumped on Lowell, you waited for my vote before typing:

I'm sold.

Vote: Lowell

At the very least a wagon will get him talking again.

Darla, and others, I suggest you re-read and reconsider whether I was buddying up with Mokina (like Darla suggested) or she was buddying up with me (which she has been doing quite often, this bandwagoning is appearent and she constantly admits she's been narrow-minded or weak).

At this point, I don't think we can be SURE anyone is scum, but it would be better to lynch a town target who constantly admits to having weak or narrow-minded (in Darla's case) votes than it would be to lynch someone who earnestly scumhunts. This most recent post has put Mokina above Darla on my "scumdar".

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP:

Prod Request: Mike-Zim, ZombieSlayer54

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP:

Prod Request: Mike-Zim, ZombieSlayer54

[Eldritch Lord]

Actually, they're closely correlated. In the first post, I hinted that I had no reason to continue voting for you. In the second post, I unvoted you.

Please don't try to strawman me; it's mean.

The problem with the hint and the actual unvote is with the timing and placement.

Also, I am not straw-manning you, those are direct quotes. This is not an OMGUS, you unvoted me--I have no reason to OMGUS. I am not attacking you or your character--only your voting pattern, my apologies for when I said this (I did a re-read to try to find what made you angry at me):

(which she has been doing quite often, this bandwagoning is appearent and she constantly admits she's been narrow-minded or weak)

I did not mean that you were weak or narrow-minded, only that you admitted your voting pattern had been quite often as justification for dropping votes or picking up on wagons. The excuse only works so much.

And then there's this:

Please. I have only ever completed one game, and it was a newbie game. My join date to the contrary, I'm newer than I look.

A low ad-hom blow

I was jumped on for the newb excuse (which was honestly not even an attempt at a newb excuse), I know this will not be overlooked. Still, it would be weak to base a case off of. It is a minor part in comparison to your voting pattern, but it is a portion of the reason my vote for you stands considering that this seems to be playing on the emotional side of the town rather than its logical side.

Will deal with your other OMGUS attacks later. I no longer have much reason to think you are scum, but the way you're handling this is childish.

Or /b/ish.

A blatant ad-hom with no relation to logic or the game. I would like this portion to be disregarded and possibly be deleted by the mod. This has nothing to do with the game and I hope your later post will be a good case in your own defense and not an OMGUS re-vote for me.

I apologize for jumping on you during a post where you were appealing to the emotional state of players, and it is not my intention to straw-man you (I didn't know you could do that using direct quotes that were full paragraphs not pulled out of context--unless they were and I overlooked something) or to anger you.

I'm simply here to play this forum game, but given the personal attacks on my character for reasons with no relation to the game--not make enemies, I may be looking for a replacement soon. I will think on this and get back with whether or not I should get replaced out, I am thinking that maybe this is all part of a scumplot or townplot or to draw me out or something. I look forward to your (hopefully) more logic-filled next post.

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP:

[quote=Eldritch Lord[/b]

A low ad-hom blow should not be part of that post, I was copying and pasting and editing like crazy and that got stuck in there. Sorry about that, I refined the terms I used to be less offensive because I don't want to make enemies over a game. The point, however, stands.

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOPing my EBWOP:

A low ad-hom blow

Should not be part of that post, I was copying and pasting and editing like crazy and that got stuck in there. Sorry about that, I refined the terms I used to be less offensive because I don't want to make enemies over a game. The point, however, stands.

It's getting late. I apologize for any confusion.

[Eldritch Lord]

Re-reading Mokina and Dcorbe, will post tomorrow.

[Eldritch Lord]

Yeah... My vote is staying on EL for the time being. His constant emotional attacks, I think, are traps, as I get the feeling that he is actually remaining completely logical and calm throughout all of this.

Alright, whatever, I can't argue with gut feelings. I'm not scum...

Unvote

Vote: Dcorbe

I agree that he is a good lynch choice for Day 1 due to semi-lurking, and that giant set-up for a mislynch. His defense was extremely weak and retreat-ish whereas before he had seemed so certain. Mokina's posts will be thoroughly investigated before I let anyone hammer Dcorbe, don't be surprised if my vote changes back to her in my next post. I feel something is just not right.

[Eldritch Lord]

Post History And Beyond:

First post is Post Number 67:

Sorry for the delay in posting guys. I confirmed my role PM and then completely forgot about the game.

I owe you a read, MTF...

Okay, good excuse...kind of. Still semi-lurking, though in an understandable fashion.

Second post is Post Number 69:

Vote Mokina wanna cyber?

Despite the fact that there is some actual action at this point, he totally random votes for someone with a vote already sitting on them. Forgivable in itself, but when lined up with other posts...

Third Post isn't until 119:

The signal:noise ratio in here is still a little bit high. It seems like nobody is really giving any compelling reasons to hold their votes the way they are and the ones on the defensive are doing a pretty poor job of defending themselves.

All I have to say right now is this:

It seems like some of the people pushing the eldritch wagon right now are the ones who lurk the most right now.

It really sounds like a scum-driven wagon to me.

So.. based on that..

FoS: Eldritch Lord

because I'd like to hear more of what you have to say first

FoS: Daria and ZombieSlayer
Unvote

This is as close to reasoning as he gets, he bashes others for lurking and calls it a scum-driven wagon, but he himself has not posted in 60 posts. Behold the FoS on the EL "scum-driven" wagon, which might justify a future vote but also FoS' the leaders of the wagon to make sure his arse is covered either way.

Two posts later:

It really looks like you're trying to deflect attention off onto your aggressors with this post.

Unvote (just because I screwed up my tags with the last post and I want to make my intentions clear)

Vote: Snix

He goes in an entirely different direction only 2 posts later, either he is on very sporadically, or realized his mistake in the post 2 above this one and had to abandon his lurking to change it. Furthermore, this is an existing bandwagon and he offers little to no reasoning beyond "It looks like you're defending yourself while scumhunting." <--Read: Possible straw-man, waiting for his justification.

I would seriously slow down with calling anyone else here emotional. Nobody likes to be called ignorant or have their judgement called into question constantly. That itself is a knee-jerk response.

Pointless meta ad-hom, ignoring. Next couple posts are the same.

Seriously, wouldn't it have been easier for you to say "everyone is alive?"

She was clarifying...strange that you would find yourself able to make a comment on this and not what was actually going on in the game since your last scumhunter post before that took place quite a while before this one. Perhaps you had nothing to add, this is nothing extremely remarkable.

We can always put your theory on a Mokina/EL scum alliance to the test. We can lynch EL today (since his bandwagon is already being pushed, he's the logical choice).

We've got a 1/12 chance of being correct but whether we are correct or not, it would be a very educational experience.

If he turns out to be scummy, we can build a strong case to push a Mokina wagon tomorrow.

If he turns out to be a townie, the Mokina gets a pass, and we can begin examining some of the relationships around both of them.

Discussion?

Hm...I don't think I need to say anything about this post except that he is setting up a Mokina lynch for the next day, kind of like what TSN noticed with DBE.

But here comes the cover-up:

Please note I'm NOT advocating that we rush towards a Lynch. I would like to see how others react to this idea, and keep the conversation going.

It, like the other cover-up post earlier in his history, comes almost immediately after his first post as though he realized he committed some huge slip. Not a case in and of itself, but a big point in the graph.

If you do come up townie when you get lynched, it won't be in vein. It will provide us valuable information to go on for the next round of scum hunting because you've interacted with just about everyone here.

If you come up scummy, all of a sudden those pushing your wagon look extremely clean.

Don't take it personally that you're being lynched on day 1.

Certainty, the kind I shared that I would be lynched. He is still setting up the next mislynch with the "if you come up townie, we can get those other people" as though he had not contributed to my wagon.

I hope you're right and he's scum because with this statement (at least in my mind) you've completely tied yourself to his fate. You seem to be pushing his wagon awfully hard. You're going to look EXTREMELY scummy if he turns up town.

Anyone agree with that assessment of the situation? Or am I off base here.

-Daniel

TSN answered this and justified most of my reasoning for the vote.

I probably used the wrong words to express the fact that I was trying to get Darla to be a little more careful about proceeding with the lynch, even though I jumped on the wagon and left him at L-1 for a little while. I can see how that action can be perceived as scummy but it really wasn't my intention.

I'm going to back off my vote now (and look even scummier)

Unvote

Take it as you will,, but if I have to take heat for this exchange, so be it.

Backing off in such a manner almost makes it seem as though he's anticipating the scum-points he's about to earn. That still does not make the scumminess of this point disappear, it exists and the attempt to deflect it by anticipating it is pretty obvious in my eyes.

That is my case against Dcorbe. I am too lazy to proof-read it at the moment, so please deal with grammatical errors when quoting me if you happen to find them.

[Eldritch Lord]

Darla-if you or the rest of the players have anything to say in regards to specific posts by Mokina, I would be very interested to hear your perspective, as I see far more in dcorbe's posts than in hers.

Not a challenge, I could deal with a Mokina lynch myself, I'm just seeking another perspective.

This would be exceptionally helpful if it came from TSN, Mike-Zim (who probably needs replacing), Iron Man, or ZombieSlayer as they are the players I am most sure are town. Though Darla/Snix you are very intelligent posters and it would be foolish of me not to at least consider what you say in regards to specific post-quotes or points.

Dcorbe, I'm looking for a case-refute or I'm sticking to you like hot glue.

[Eldritch Lord]

Watching and listening, I have an explanation as well as some points to make.

Will post later.

[Eldritch Lord]

To be honest, I would be content with a lynch of either dcorbe or mokina because I feel that my cases against the both of them are strong.

I'm going to unvote for now:

unvote

And re-read both of them to determine for certain which of the two, at this time, deserves my vote more.

You yet again have flip flopped, you started the case on Mokina and now you want it explained? I am still not convinced we don't have a Mokina/El scum pair but I am less inclined to believe it after Mokina voted EL, on Day 1.

After a re-read on the favor of TSN I've found my case against dcorbe to be stronger. I am not flip-flopping with my unvote, because I feel that this situation warrants further consideration. After doing a skim on my Mokina investigation posts I feel that the vote could really go either way.

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP: Also, Darla, the only reason I asked for other people's takes on the Mokina investigation is because I feel that the situation is so teeter-tottery and want to get the rest of those (especially those not posting) involved in the conversation to see if there was another perspective.

[Eldritch Lord]

Darla, you are straw-manning me. I said that I felt I had strong cases against the both of them, if you'd notice, I've done more public proof in those two posts alone than you have this entire game.

I said I would re-read and reconsider my vote. That is saving judgment for a later time, but all things considered:

Vote: Dcorbe

I feel my case against him was stronger after reconsidering things.

[Eldritch Lord]

So, @EL: Claim now, tells us why we should believe you or be lynched!

Strange sense of urgency for my claim, especially since it would not do me nearly as much good as a comprehensive defense, which I am putting together.

I will be on V/LA until about 3:00 tomorrow, which should be around when I'll get to posting my defense (which I've seemed to have to do several times, and each time its been far more comprehensive than the attacks on me). Would those voting for me who haven't outline their points against me, your posts thusfar have seemed rather confused and undefined.

Also, I think that your first option is far more likely, my wagon is a largely lurker/scum wagon though Mike-Zim and you have begun to post more as time has gone on. Still, you have been rather elusive as of late--the same goes for Iron Man who simply pops in to cast a vote and then "disappears".

That's all I have time for, really. I shall return at about 3:00 CST tomorrow.

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP:

Would those voting for me

who haven't outlined/reasoned their points against me please do so

, your posts thusfar have seemed rather confused and undefined.

Also, could someone explain this claiming business, why is it so beneficial? It seems to help scum more than anyone else. I really have to go now, that was just a quick edit.

3:00 CST tomorrow.

[Eldritch Lord]

I am back from V/LA, however, upon reading the last few posts I'm starting to wonder why dcorbe is so aggressive with a wagon that's close to lynch anyway. Is this a town tactic I am unaware of? Doesn't seem like it.

Beyond that, I have to agree with TSN, I feel like the points made against me are rather and so ill-defined that I find myself hard-pressed to argue them:

Darla, I believe you are town (my eye is more on dcorbe and Iron Man and to a lesser extent-Mokina), however I am forced to bring to attention the fact that the main reason I am being hunted is because of your persistence in wanting me lynched. You seem to want me lynched because I am "wishy-washy"--the same can be said about Mokina, Dcorbe, and even to a lesser extent, yourself (even though I appreciate your temporary willingness to accept the fact that I may not be scum). I want to know what is special about me? Is there anything that goes beyond my "vote-hopping" playstyle? I also agree with TSN on this, this is Day 1, I see no lynch/NK patterns so the only thing I have to go on is gut feeling.

I am fairly certain my wagon is made up of some of the most obviously (to me) lurker/anti-towners in this game. Iron Man's vote is still sitting on me--he posts very little to nothing besides a vote, avoids the conflict and doesn't post substance because he's afraid if he says something wrong he'll get lynched. Mike-Zim is one out of my (5?) votes and has said directly that it is based on gut-feeling more than anything else. I'm almost positive that at least 1/2 of the scum in this game are people on my wagon.

Darla, re-read dcorbe and mokina--they have similar voting patterns and posting styles that I do. Look at how much dcorbe wants a claim, and how pushy he was before you unvoted me. I can't possibly imagine what you're calling me out on, quote me please or something so that I actually have something to defend myself against.

I've spent so much time defending myself that I rarely get an opportunity to scum-hunt, but when you took your vote off me look at what I contributed to Town (those posts are some of the most comprehensive, non-gut based posts this entire game). I urge Zombie-Slayer to do the same and try to forget our confrontation (that was more personal than anything game related) and see if he can come to a conclusion.

Darla, you pushed my wagon initially, but it seems now that dcorbe has become the head of the wagon, and is pushing ceaselessly for claims/a lynch. This goes from setting up the next mislynch to speaking with utter certainty that I would be lynched when I was at L-1.

Good to be back in the game, just wish I wasn't always so close to getting lynched.

[Eldritch Lord]

If you're so adamant that El has a pro-town role, and the rest of us are so wrong, why aren't you trying to do more to convince us not to push the El wagon any further? Why can't you stand up and make a pro-el argument instead of repeating the words "El is not scum" over and over again.

If you're so adamant that I am scum (you are pushing my wagon harder than Darla) then why don't you post some of your own reasoning as to why I am?

You're trying desperately at this point to cover up the fact that you're scum and you almost got yourself busted by diverting attention onto me simply because I acknowledged that a couple of my recent actions could possibly be perceived as scummy. You read my last posts and figured that I was your quick out, so now you're trying to build a case against me by twisting my words and actions to mean something that they do not.

Unvote
Vote: Eldritch Lord

In the only post you have against me, all you do is accuse me of straw-manning you. This is slight

OMGUS

with a little actual reasoning mixed in. I think I am dead on when I read you in my post against you, which is why I'm keeping my vote for you--I do not believe I misinterpreted your intentions. It was a good thorough post, and I think it deserves a re-read by members of the town.

[Eldritch Lord]

Note: Eldritch Lord's vote (as such) for himself in 363 will not be counted.

Thank you, it was an honest mistake and I had no intention of voting for myself. Needless to say, I'm still waiting for impressions as to dcorbe's haste in lynching/pushing for a claim from other players.

[Eldritch Lord]

If anyone is stupid enough to counter claim him (when we could have multiple copies of the same role) the scum know who to kill.

Agreed. Even if nobody else counterclaims him, the scum know he's a power role. If the town doesn't kill him, the scum will. The proposed roleclaim gives no new information.

If he's a power role and he gets lynched we lose it anyways.

You say this with utter certainty that I will be lynched today if I don't claim, when its already been said several times that claiming is useless. I will not claim, because it is not a certainty I will get lynched.

It bothers me that you speak as though it is.

[Eldritch Lord]

Everything bothers you.

...Okay?

[Eldritch Lord]

Dcorbe, that sounds like nothing more than a rant to scare away those on your wagon for fear that we'll be lynched tomorrow if you come up town.

I am fairly certain you are scum, but (entertaining the idea that I am wrong) if you do come up town, I will be clean of conscience knowing that you were of little help to the town and that I had many reasons which are clearly outlined earlier in the thread for your lynch.

The point is, this sounds like an emotional attack to play on our fear, saying that those on your bandwagon will get lynched in the following day to scare the votes off of you (read: to save your ass today). This seems like a scum move to me, I do not believe your claim.

Confirm Vote: dcorbe

[Eldritch Lord]

Why would you give away doc/cop/town reads if you were Pro-Town?

I believe you are scum, but if you are pro-Town that does not seem like an intelligent move.

[Eldritch Lord]

I'd like to hear from you once more Dcorbe, before anyone hammers.

Even if all you've got is a re-cap.

[Eldritch Lord]

I would not mind hearing from the ZombieSlayer as well as more from Sideney in regards to the current situation with dcorbe.

They seem to have fallen off of the radar.

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP: ZS cast his vote for dcorbe last page, but I would like to hear more of what he thinks.

[Eldritch Lord]

FoS: Mokina

Unexpected hammer--we had virtually all agreed to let him make a final post/argument before anyone hammered.

[Eldritch Lord]

FoS: Mokina

Eldritch and I are agreeing on something.

Shit.

/b/ will convert you. One of us...one of us...

Waiting on content from Mokina.

[Eldritch Lord]

Hmm, I will be re-reading both Mokina and DarlaBlueEyes, she did bash Mokina with a unerring degree of certainty before Elmo gave us Dcorbe's role.

Until then,

Vote: Mokina

[Eldritch Lord]

FoS: Lowell, Mike-Zim

Come out of hiding please.

It is my belief that after reading Darla and Mokina I have determined that Mokina the better lynch of the two. Darla's frustration due to Mokina's hammer was shared by myself and is relatively understandable (if unwarranted), but still slightly suspicious.

The vote she carried for me all of Day 1 seems more a mesh of bad PR on my part and her own insistence that I HAD to be scum. This suspicion has gone quiet, and I'm interested to hear what Darla's reasoning is regarding her recently lack of hatred towards myself.

Mokina, you unexpectedly hammered on Dcorbe after specifically stating you were NOT going to hammer. Your justification in post 434 is simply not enough to convince me--explain why there was a super-sudden change of heart.

[Eldritch Lord]

I approve of pressure on Iron Man.

Unvote

Vote: Iron Man

FoS: Mokina

[Eldritch Lord]

I don't know if Iron Man is the right vote. It just doesn't make sense to me to target someone who hasn't been vocal but then again, do scum really lurk a lot? I don't really know the answer to that yet but I am really comfortable with voting Mokina for her hammer.

That was one of the more suspicious acts I've seen so far. And she was a suspect in the last round as well.

This is true, however, I would like more contribution from Iron Man, and if he fails to contribute, would not mind running the risk of him coming up Town.

My FoS remains strong on Mokina, however.

[Eldritch Lord]

This is true, however, I would like more contribution from Iron Man, and if he fails to contribute,

would not mind running the risk of him coming up Town.

See Bold for why Is still think you are scum. Not minind if someone comes up town is SCUMMY! EL seriously, do you think before you say stuff?

thats like blaring sirens and holding up a sign that says I'm scum. Call it a freudian slip if you wish, but I stick with my Mokina/EL scum pair, with an off chance TSN is, as he avoided the EL wagon and ignored the Mokina situation. but TSN isn't very provable



i

Read: I would rather lynch a non-productive Town than a productive member of Town any day. Look at it this way, neither of us can PROVE Mokina is scum, what we have is intuition and circumstantial evidence. This is a game of shades of gray, not absolutes. I was entertaining the idea that both may, possibly be Town.

Unlike you, Darla, I do not deal in black and white and acknowledge that my reasoning sometimes has errors. Less of the high horse, please.

[Eldritch Lord]

I agree with TSN here, if he can't be NK'd or 'Can't' be, and his play is this erratic and unpredictable, its a danger for the town.

In my mind I would lynch only three people today in this order:

EL
Dcorbe
Mokina

I'd be willing to hammer, but I would like one last defense from dcorbe.

Am I wrong here when I say that it seems you are essentially saying the same thing you're attacking me for. Standard psychological model says: "Looks for their own tells!"

You're racking up points here, Darla.

[Eldritch Lord]

You are calling it a Freudian slip. We've already decided that they can't be trusted; remember when my case against EL was shut down?

:goodposting:

Darla, I can see you pushing Dcorbe's lynch with an FoS, and even offering to hammer. It was kind of as though you were pushing his wagon without actually casting your vote, perhaps you just found me more scummy, probably a null-tell. Still, I'm forced to wonder how you miss the parts where I successfully refute the joint case Mokina and you had against me.

I've got my eye on you, Darla.

Iron Man's OMGUS on Mokina seems even more scummy than before, I'm going to need more than that one slip to justify your inability to contribute content.

The way I see it, Iron Man has made fewer 'mistakes' than Mokina, but this is only because he's remained off of the scumdar. The second he gets onto it, he throws an OMGUS post at Mokina. So though, technically, Mokina has made more slip-ups (read: has a higher chance of being scum) this higher number of slip-ups could simply be biproducts of over-posting (something I've been guilty of this game), overthinking, and rehashing/rethinking; Iron Man, if he had contributed the kind of content he has been as often as Mokina has, would probably have been prime lynch suspect for me on Day 1.

Thus, I feel if you were to extrapolate their number of mistakes/amount of scumminess in ratio to his number of posts to an intersection, you would find Iron Man far scummier.

This is where the Black/White DBE part kicks in, I've done some meta-work on you Darla, you seem nice to those who are nice to you--but can be utterly vindictive to those who aren't. The thing is, you are like my friend Josh, he refuses to see superior reasoning simply because it is not his own unless you sugar coat it so that it seems like it was them who inspired you to your superior reasoning. I urge you to think of it this way, however, I believe that Mokina is 55% Scummy, whereas Iron Man is only 30% scummy. If Iron Man continued this kind of posting/contribution to the frequency Mokina has, I would put him at about 45-50% scummy. The choice seems obvious, no? Wrong, though Mokina has behaved in a scummier manner, the difference between the two percentages is not enough to justify a vote: We must consider usefulness. Until recently, no one has been suspicious of Iron Man and his votes have gone for the most part, unnoticed--if he survives (and is scum) and we continue to treat him in such a manner he will be far more dangerous than Mokina, if she is indeed scum there are many (if not all players) who have been/are suspicious and wary of her advice--so she would be less effective as scum. Here comes the Townie part, if they are both Townie then lynching the less productive of the two is worth the small decline in scumcentage (You see what I did there?). If they are both scum, then either lynch will be acceptable--which is something I've kind of hinted at before.

Small note, in relation to us being suspicious of Mokina--you seem to buy her advice very willingly on Day 1. I urge all those who may disagree with this statement to re-read all of Day 1, particularly the part where I sat at L-1.

Still, I am wary of TSN--Dcorbe warned us in his last post (after Mokina hammered) that TSN had been leading scumcharges and looking back, I can kind of see that, but this may just be the "too townie" fallacy.

Darla: +30% Scum.
Your convictions do not a Townie make, you pushed other wagons while sitting on mine, quite often a safe distance away from the action. Unvoting me was, as you said, a temporary measure, and you seemed to have assured that you could still hammer if someone else picked up my vote. I must say, if you are scum, you are quite clever scum--and perhaps such an elaborate ruse is a stretch. But I'm a stretcher, a mover, and a shaker--I look forward to seeing where this leads.

(I will be V/LA until Wednesday 11 p.m.--If I post it will be through sheer luck that I found free time between exams and work [ugh!])

[Eldritch Lord]

...and trying to get the attention off herself.

I agree with EL's high horse impression. Hell,

you've

tried to get attention off yourself in the past. Face it; everyone wants to get the attention off themselves when they are held under scrutiny. Nobody wants to get lynched. I honestly do believe that Iron Man has at the very least been failing to contribute to the town.

This is also :goodposting:

This is the way I look at it, as a Pro-Town player, I want the Town to win. However, I cannot play this game the same way on the forums as I do in real life. First of all, I lose a ton of my meaning and magnitude (along with attractiveness, if I may say so myself *slicks hair back*) going from RL to text. Furthermore, this isn't like an RL game where it lasts an hour and you can sit and talk to your dead friends and have fun not in the game; once you're dead, you're out and you've "lost" the game. Even though your ultimate objective is for Town to win, if you die it becomes kind of pointless (there is hardly any bragging rights to be had on the internet) and you will likely never return to the thread except maybe to have some detached or "I-told-you-so" connection to the outcome.

Defending yourself in this game is justifiable--no one wants to die and be essentially removed from a group of people they feel close to for possibly months while the game finishes. (Note: Yes, I am aware that is the objective of the game, but that doesn't mean people will want to go.) Yes, I feel like you guys are cool--even if we disagree in game. And if I die, I will be sad to go seeing how as these games usually take months to move on. It's like I've always said IRL: The quickest way to meeting new friends is through a game of Mafia; it's part of the reason I love the game, it forces you to establish emotional/close connections with others. I play this game for more than learning new vocabulary (ooo, straw-mannnnnn) or practicing logic--I play it to get to know people (both IRL and now, thanks in part to several friends of mine who are frequent forum'ers, online).

/shrug--Just a newbie's take on defending yourself.

TL;DR Version: I want to stay alive in any given game, but especially online, since the stakes are if you lose you are removed from a game and by lesser extension your "friends" (can I call you guys friends?) for months [unless you're in another game with them]. Wanting to stay alive is totally justifiable imho.

That post wound up way longer than I meant it to be, goodnight and for a couple days, goodbye guys.

[Eldritch Lord]

I'll admit I have considered this, and thus have been trying to back off posting just a tad.

This is a seperate theory that has been running in the back of my mind; and TSN voiced it. What if all of us talkatives (who all had disagreements; see: Me and ZS, Me and Mokina, Me and Darla, Darla and TSN, Darla and Mokina; rather early game disagreements at that) who are duking it out between us are all Town and there are some newbie scum just lurking because they don't know what to do or expert scum who have thrown us into total WIFOM and emotional rage against each other.

I'm going to go look back on Snix's posts--maybe he was onto something.

(I am back from exams, early!--so I will be back in game from today on.)

[Eldritch Lord]

Well, seeing as the main case against me is lurking, I'll just try to be more active. I wasnt trying to seem overly lurkish, but, I guess I was wrong. I would try to post a cas right now, but I dont really know how to repond to "Everyone vote Iron Man." without seeming OMGUS.

Maybe we need a lurker relief program? Like "Lurkers Anonymous."

"Hello, my name is Iron, and...I'm a lurker."

See, the problem is, posts like this don't help your case because all they do is reaffirm the suspicions against you.

Content or bust.

[Eldritch Lord]

lol EL; ok, make up your mind please, first off you disagree with Mokina, she restates the same crap logic's glamourized and you "goodposting: her. Now I will say some of her posts above had viable points, but IMO you were congratulating her attack on me, which you seem unable to create yourself. You simply 'urge' others to look at me, versus, make a case.

I could take this as OMGUS from either one of you or not, and TBH I don't like TSN's play, and I just know I will die soon, because i can feel myself on a trail here, so I am saying it now, for when/if I die and this game is over, our scum is in the Mokina/El/TSN group one or the other may not be But I'd bet a lot at least two of them are.

First paragraph, straw-man less please. I had my high-horse impression of you since the beginning of the game, this only reassures me that your mind works in monochrome--and before Mokina posted, you are attempting to make me sound like a waffler when in fact I am quite consistent. I will allow others to think for themselves, and re-read if they choose to--there is nothing wrong with this, it accomplishes the same thing (with greater accuracy) than straw-manning; something you have been quite fond of in your posting.

Second paragraph, your insistence on dying worries me, what makes you so certain that you will die? In fact, if you were on to ANYTHING at all, I'm surprised you didn't kick the bucket last night. I think you're stuck in your thinking, the real scum have noted it and will continue to use you to push mislynches until the game end, if you aren't scum yourself. Don't flatter your reasoning--you've been so stuck, that if you're wrong [which you are about me, idk about Mokina and TSN], you are the greatest threat to this Town besides scum since you refuse to change your mind. OMGUS has to be the biggest fallacy I have found in this game, if someone votes you (and is utterly consistent in holding that vote), and you know you are Town and cannot find a HUGE mistake or find scummier players with ease then its perfectly normal to consider the possibility that the person holding their vote on you (who hasn't died, mind you) and pushing your wagon may be scum themselves.

With all of this, my focus is still on Iron Man.

Confirm Vote: Iron Man

. Content, please.

[Eldritch Lord]

Again with the bandwagon guys. I still consider that we shouldn't target someone who wasn't that influential on the last vote. Iron Man had just been lurking but don't you think scum would have pushed for dcorbe knowing they were scum? I just kind of see Iron as like...there. lol

WIFOM

As in, maybe that's what he wanted us to think. We've got to go with intuition, along with his lack of content. At this point (read: At this point) he is in my opinion, the best lynch possible today--since his sacrifice will lose us very little.

Iron Man, it seems like you think everyone is Town--or you're just neutral in regard to their existence. My reads are somewhat different:

-DarlaBlueEyes: 70% Town, despite my townie impression of her, I don't know how I'd feel about a lynch especially since her black/white way of thinking is extremely dangerous to the town if she's wrong about her scumpairings. WIFOM note: She was very certain she would die, and still seems to be.

-ZombieSlayer: 91% Town, he responded emotionally to my attack on him, the attention he drew to himself is unlike that I've seen from scum in other games I've read. He's probably most Townie in my eyes.

-TSN: 83% Town Very wary, it may be the too Townie fallacy, but Dcorbe warned us about him in his final post. If I look back, I can see how he leads many charges with short posts--his posts are jam-packed with reasoning and lack my airy fluff, but I'm still just on the lookout. --Snix and him never really agreed, just a side point.

-Mokina: 62% Town, her logic reminds me of my own, and though DBE calls it craplogic, I can see her unique point of view most of the time. Given some of her scummier moments my ease in seeing her point of view frightens me, and I am reluctant to agree with her (unless she makes very good points). She follows other players very easily and has seemed to do so throughout the game.

-Lowell: No Read, I kind of want him replaced. One good post in Day 2 is not helping Town at all.

-Iron Man: 37% Town, opportunism and reluctance to post at its finest. It may just be that he's inarticulate and is not coming across the way he means to, but I just find that some scum drops out of his coat every time he takes a step.

-Donkey: Too Small A Read To Count, you show up and disappear a lot, but when you do show up, you make a decent contribution. I would still like to hear from you more consistently, as I have very little read on you. If you're Town, there's no harm in talking to much (unless you're like me and rub people the wrong way).

-Sideney: 74% Town, it looks like you're making an effort to contribute and post, but perhaps some language barrier is preventing you from doing so. Still, you've been very heavy on the FoS' and very sparing on the votes, I find that somewhat scummy (i.e. Pushing the wagon, while sitting on someone elses' so you can say you were never on that wagon. --See Day 1 DBE)

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP

As in, maybe that's what he wanted us to think. We've got to go with intuition, along with his lack of content. At this point (read: At this point) he is in my opinion, the best lynch possible today--since his sacrifice will lose us very little (

even in the event that he is Town

).

Honest mistake, I'm head-desking at how stupid I am for not proof-reading. Not a "Freudian slip"--just an honest mistake.

[Eldritch Lord]

I've stated it before, Darla's single-track mind is a serious threat to the Town--especially if she's wrong (judging by the fact she's not dead, it's a possibility she might be). She does seem quite set on sitting on one wagon while pushing others just to get lynch...

I'm not sure I'm ready to vote for her though, I need some time to think. I still believe there is some legitimacy to the Iron Man case.

[Eldritch Lord]

If I agree with someone's logic, I will say so (especially since I "agreed" with her several posts before hers). To deny logic simply to look Town seems like a scum move to me--you need to look at logic and stop being so set in your ways and you will stop being such a danger to Town.

[Eldritch Lord]

@El
No offense, but blatantly stating that you would try to quicklynch a lurker instead of trying to dig farther into it, kinda sounds a little scummy to me.

@Iron Man,
No offense, but blatantly avoiding content for fear of being lynched, bandwagon sneaking, and lurking is a little scummy to me. Your post does not offer Town anything, it simply tells me that the reason I'm voting for you is justifiable.

I'm waffling here, DBE/Iron Man--something I hadn't considered until now seems slightly possible--doing some re-reading..

DBE&TSN, since I'm deciding whether you're scum or not I would like to direct this question at you and TSN.

What are your thoughts on:
TSN/Mokina
DBE/Mokina
TSN/Lowell
DBE/Lowell
And to defend yourselves:
DBE/TSN.

[Eldritch Lord]

Everytime EL posts he's like a completely different person. Bizairre.

EL, clarify for me.

You suspect Mokina of being scum, right? And also DBE? Who do you suspect more, and why?

On page 20 there is an in-depth analysis on each player. Not much has changed since then.

This is likely because I re-read a lot, and get a different impression each time I do (in conjunction with newer posts), I thought I usually had enough reasoning in each of my posts to justify the change of perspective.

[Eldritch Lord]

Unvote

I can't in good conscience vote for someone who won't even be there to defend themselves when I'm so close to dropping the vote anyways. TSN--I'm still interested in your prospective scumpairings and DBE--

IGMEOY

. Emotional scumhunting is still, as specified before, dangerous. Attacking people for agreeing with each other on logical concepts just seems off to me.

[Eldritch Lord]

Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Darla--yesterday you were gung-ho about me buddying up to Mokina and now you're dead set the other way, I'm confused by this switch in tactics and though I don't totally agree with Mokina/ZS (read: re-reading and changes in perception can cause changes in votes, the more you are into the game--the more your vote might jump around).

--TSN/DBE: It seems like you guys are mentioning each other but never really get into a case against the other; I'd like to hear your opinions of each other because I've read games where the scum act like this.

[Eldritch Lord]

My case on Darla wouldve been her flip flopping as I indicated on D1 as well. I prefer one of the big names to get lynched over someone like Ironman who relatively doesn't seem to have that big of an impact

What's preventing you from voting?

This post seems to state that you wish to lynch Darla--but yet you do not vote for her. Do you see something I'm missing?

[Eldritch Lord]

Well considering how everyone is switching to Darla, wouldn't that make it seem like I am joining the bandwagon?

It'd make it seem like you were acting on your logic instead of attempting to look Town to save your ass...

[Eldritch Lord]

lmao go ahead and lynch me, I've decided this town is hopeless and doomed to die. But Mark my words. The scum lies somewhere within TSN/Mokina/EL I haven't ever had such strong intuitions, since one of my last Mini's, In which I was correct, my first suspect was the scum, who subsequently killed me.

I see you three as incredible opportunist, bandwagoning way too much, agreeing with and validating one another while rejecting anything brought forth by others. Trying to off the lurkers as a group, in all anti-town play.

There was about one instance where Mokina/EL disagreed over each other (once each) D1/D2 and they quickly retracted their votes. TSN refused to vote for either without a truely good reason, only saying he thinks lurkers are more likely to be scum, which i can agree to to an extent, but his refusal to look at the other two based on activity is anti-town.. This is just way too much for me to deal with, when half the town is lurking. So if you must, put me out of my misery, and town..good luck. You're gonna need it.

Go ahead and lynch me has to be the worst attitude ever, if you really feel that way, get a replacement and if not: Get dead, scum.

[Eldritch Lord]

Things I have noticed in the 1st two pages (Fathers Day Festivities blended into birthday festivities).

1) Mokina's page 1 is odd. Eldritch's response seems distancingish to me. TSN's vig kill think is also odd, but not reactable like that. I would bet if TSN is scum, neither of Mokina + eld are, but those 2 could be paired.

2) Eldritch jumping on TSN is odd, Lowell and TSN adding is even odder.

3) Mokina FOSing the "lurkers" is not good.

4) Eldritch OMGUSing Zombie is not good.

5) I like Darla and Zombie as town, as well as Snix. Snix's trap seemed legit, Darla for attacking Eldritch, Zombie seems on par with normal.

6) Sidney unsure of early game.

7) Donkey seems off from what I have seen of him, too aggressive.

8) Eldritch attacking an obviously inactive player on pg4 is bad. Hopping around is bad too.

9) Lowell so far lines up with Elemental, where he was mislynched as town for similar behavior in the context of that game.

10) Mokina's defense of Eldritch validates that part of point 1 (ZS wise). More lurker bashing too, aka easy lynch PLZ, then Lowell wagons....

11) OMG both OMGUS wagon DBE!!!! TSN and Donkey are also there, good to note. Then Mokina hops off....

12) Mokina vote on EL. within bus range definitely, so null.

13) More TSN wagon, have not really seen this out of him yet elsewhere so odd.

14) EL votes Sidney. More lurker bashing. Also, did he ever claim or did he just weasel out with by reversing a potential bus?

1. Okay--can't argue against gut feeling.
2. I don't understand this point-please rephrase.
3. Lurking is bad, mkay?
4. Then perhaps you should have looked at ZS' super-OMGUS holding onto my vote because he liked to scream at me.
5. This statement is odd--why do you like them as Town?
6. Okay...what?
7. Hm, I find it hard to see Donkeyz as aggressive, he pushes people but isn't really a case-maker like some others in this game.
8. Hopping around is bad? Guess everyone on Day 1 should be on your scumdar then.
9. Are you misreading? This point makes no sense to me.
10. This is WIFOM, scum wouldn't defend each other, but maybe thats what they want you to think, etc. Null-tell.
11. DBE has more than enough in the way of unhelpfulness/scumtells to have justified that vote Day 1, in my opinion.
12. If its a null tell, why make the point?
13. TSN wagon--I see him leading a charge on Dcorbe and Iron Man, pretty odd you'd call him a wagon'er.
14. Can't remember ever voting for Sideney--let me do a re-read.

Anyways, as I see it, these points are all either null-tells or have very little relevance to myself--and the ones that are accurate have been displayed to a greater degree by at least one other player.

DBE--everyone gets emotional at some point when the pressure starts building, but a repost with an actual argument would be nice to hear.

[Eldritch Lord]

Still?

That's odd, I've never got that impression from you before Lowell. Oh well, waiting to hear from DBE, Sideney, and Iron Man.

[Eldritch Lord]

10. Umm, no. Scum would and do defend each other. You trying to say that link is WIFOM is not a good thing

It is WIFOM, you can't say it isn't--Scum do not always defend each other, if that statement was true you could not ever lose a game as Town because you would simply look for the team defending themselves. This goes totally against your belief that Mokina is bussing me--if scum always defended each other then bussing would never happen. Scum try to fool everyone else--if we expect them to get along, then by fighting they could get right under our radar, if we expect them to fight then they could get right under our radar by agreeing.

This is WIFOM. Period. It's not really debatable.

[Eldritch Lord]

False characterization of other players is similar in my mind to the classic scum strawman, it makes townie-looking players easier to lynch.

Darla, I don't have much time, so here are some quick points that make me think you may be scum.
-Your surefire feeling about being NK'd (WIFOM though)
-Your jumping on Mokina after her hammer
-Your pushing other wagons without throwing your vote in their direction
-Your inability to let go of EL/TSN/Mokina, if you stopped to consider that I, or one of us, may be Town for a little while--you'd realize how dangerous this black/white thinking is to the Town, we can only afford so many mislynches like yesterday.
-Your two "F you" posts to the town when you get close to lynch--null tell, but still worth addressing.

Like I said, I don't have much time so I really must be going. Armlx, I will try to answer your questions tomorrow beyond saying that I disagree with your definition of WIFOM/Scum-tactics.

[Eldritch Lord]

All of this game theory is pretty interesting...

I'm glad I'm learning quite a bit from more experiences MS members.
DBE--I lightly touched on some concerns regarding your play thusfar, and am still waiting on your answer for when you are all caught up.

[Eldritch Lord]

Lowell, she takes the stand that Zombie is town, EL + Mokina are scum. Pretty obv.

Epic buddying up.

[Eldritch Lord]

and you are mokina werent?

you need to decide if agreeing and buddying up aka WHAT YOU DID is truly buddying up or not. Else you will just be the pot calling the kettle black. Also armlx is the one buddying to me, I'm neither here nor there on him. Although being that he is in every single one of my games atm, I have a little easier time accepting his play style, as its pretty normal for him from what I've seen.

Hey, thanks for the classic strawman. He is agreeing with you going "pretty obv" rather than making statements regarding his own personal opinion on the matter. Every time I agree with Mokina (and many other members of the game), its on a point I had at least hinted at earlier, and I always flesh out these ideas.

Pretty obv does not reasoning make.

[Eldritch Lord]

Bah.

[Eldritch Lord]

I did as best I could with Sideney.

/headdesk--which wasn't good enough.

I'd have gotten away with it too if it weren't for Darla and her that blasted pup.

I'll be back to kill you all, don't worry about it. Til' then, farewell!