Large Normal 216 - Endgame

[RCEnigma]

Wait, what if Profii is mind****ing us and flips scum. And Garmr is his partner?


Nah that's crazy.

[RCEnigma]

Ehhh don't really care about how people got onto the wagon until he actually flips. What do you think about the rest of the game. What was interesting? You haven't reacted to any of the claims. It's just very....odd I guess.

[RCEnigma]

That would be mind blowing indeed.

[RCEnigma]

Well this was a good talk.

[RCEnigma]

I did like that read. If he flips scum who do you think his partners are?

[RCEnigma]

I don't remember a ton of what's going on here. VOTE: Nos
Scum or really bad town.

[RCEnigma]

I have one, wish I had checked someone else tho.

[RCEnigma]

This confirmation scum doesn't have a roleblocker and to answer your question AP, I leaned that my vig shot was one shot. After that it was played up that performer could use his abilities again, just not all of them.

That or scum is within the first half of the list that Performer was targeting.

[RCEnigma]

Yes but I'm saying yesterday, before he flipped. His role wasn't being explained that way. I think it was Profii I discussed it with but I can't say that with certainty. It's still a bit fuzzy.

I think performer was just the shot, don't see the point in going for FL who would be protected or potentially jked. Anyone outside of Perf and the would have to medic dodge by killing off a low hanging fruit that wouldn't be saved but that disrupts mislynches so.

[RCEnigma]

Who’s absent from this list of 12 name?!? Maxous. That is actively staying away from it because partner Profii is pushing them, but Profii was sitting behind other people pushing it more.

fair enough

VOTE: profii

scumreading both of them either way o/

pedit: i guess someone claimed someone dont fucking spoil it until i get there

So Maxous is not scum or any third party.

I'm also a Joat, last night I disloyal vigged Maxous. He's not dead so there's my readflip from day 1 to day 2.

Actually thinking about it my role has about the same utility, so I’m CCing this.
I am a Town Ascetic Disloyal Ninja Babysitter. So I have ability to target a player at night, and if I die and they are scum they die too. So I’m kinda like a disloyal bomb. This role is why I was upset at the quickhammer, as I wanted to crumb a target for last night.
Now why does the mod include a one shot disloyal vig with a role that kinda does the same thing but with more intrigue (the role has to die to take effect) and more effectiveness (Ascetic means I cannot be roleblocked). The simple answer? He didn’t.
VOTE: RCEnigma

hol up

UNVOTE:

pedit: oh really? yikes

[RCEnigma]

So I'm expected to believe the one time you decided to vote *during* your catchup it just happened to be the *accidental* hammer. Keep in mind you didn't set a precedent for how your catchup comes together. Every time you checked in beforehand was to nitpick at a recent argument or two, or deliver a readslist.

So yes it makes sense, don't give me that.

[RCEnigma]

I checked CT. I'm set on lynching Nos today or Saudade if he doesn't cut the coasting. It's day 1 but it's not flying with me today.

[RCEnigma]

Green btw, if AP isn't a scum rb it would be really weird not to block me so I'm fine with him today.

[RCEnigma]

It's fine day 1* but not today. Sorry.

[RCEnigma]

Now'o'clock.

[RCEnigma]

The last VC is kind of a mess but I feel like there are two scum within ofhrz/saudade/nos/garmr/gamma/Nero. These are the unconfirmed from Profiis wagon fmpov.

[RCEnigma]

You don't have to, but when you change the way you are playing to perform X action I'm going to call it out.

[RCEnigma]

Ok so considering why they chose performer over myself I'm leaning that scum were not in my pool of CT/Shattiel/ofhrz. More confident on Shattiel not being the scum there since I've been pretty against him from day 1. It was safe to assume that would be my check.

That leaves a pool for me of Nero/garmr/nos/xx/saudade if I'm forgetting someone remind me I'm blanking.

It's fortunate for us because I can confirm myself as town if I'm not shot tonight giving us a lock town block of Myself, Flavor, CT, Maxous, and possibly one of AP or Gamma. The larger the scumteam the better the chances are of flipping scum today anyways. I don't want to spend today talking about who Performer might have blocked because it's just wifom, we don't know.

But for the record how does the interaction of roleblocker blocking another roleblocker work?

[RCEnigma]

Ya know for being a super sexy spy......I have my questions.

[RCEnigma]

That's interesting though. Mafia may still have a roleblocker. But we'll find out tonight.

[RCEnigma]

Mmk what makes you obvious townie?

[RCEnigma]

I propose I should target RCE. RCE targets Garmr/Saudade. Gamma is also on RCE. Performer does what he wants.

The reason I want Garmer/Saudade checked is their votes on profii suck. I'm not buying Saudade playing the sheep all the time, and Garmr basically sneaked into the wagon out of nowhere.

But maybe I should think more about it to make use of Performer's abilities?

P.S. Many of you know why I have been a bit quiet today, but for those who don't, I've been busy preparing for the launch of my new game, setting up PTs (including 3 hydra slots), sending out Role PMs, verifying links in Role PMs for the umpteenth time, etc.

Yeah no fuck off my case on profii was the best one. I been pushing Profii all day.

Wrt the Profii Lynch this is probably your towniest post. Being adamant about your case catching scum and that Profii would flip scum seems like town thinking they're right.

But that doesn't take you out of my Lynch pool. If it makes you feel any better I would Lynch at least nos, saudade, Nero, carca before you.

[RCEnigma]

Town Joat Nero. Disloyal Vig shot on Maxous, Cop check on CT.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Saudade

Nah fam.

[RCEnigma]

vote me without an open thought process harder boys

VOTE: Saudade
VOTE: Saudade
VOTE: Saudade
VOTE: Saudade
VOTE: Saudade

[RCEnigma]

Not fighting it, vote me.

[RCEnigma]

Yep, caught me.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah well people aren't doing much, not much interest I guess and I'm wasting breath. So whatever Lynch me and you get 2 confirmed town out of it.

FL dies in the night but eh, worth.

[RCEnigma]

The games crawled to a stop. I thought Shattiel was scum all day yesterday, but I've put him into a townbin for today. Or at least a don't want to Lynch bin.

[RCEnigma]

Claims that are still alive:

Me - Town Joat
AP - Disloyal Roleblocker
Gamma - Ascetic bomb....thing? Babysitter right?

[RCEnigma]

I used my protection last night, was I your target?

[RCEnigma]

Yeah I'm kind of in the same boat, plus the Nero push on xx plus Shortaru pushing xx says he is probably just town. Dude ofhrz flipping scum is gonna make me so sad.

VOTE: ofhrz

[RCEnigma]

AP and I are the only PR claims yes.

[RCEnigma]

Three JOATS in one game?

Two had the exact same role. Evaluate a world where all claim roles are town:

AP
Myself
Gamma
Performer

Add flipped roles in:

CT
FL
Dva

We started with what 19 players?
7 prs 8 or 9 vts and 3 or 4 scum (I think 4 is more likely)

Which seems like a lot but they break down as:

FL - confirmed VT
Dva - chances of impeding a town Pr over a scum Pr are pretty high
CT/Performer/myself - high impact but very limited window of opportunity
Gamma - turned out to be high impact even with the claim
AP - can't really confirm his role works aside from preventing a nightkill which the chances get better the longer the game goes however starts night 1 with a 1 in 17 chances of choosing the correct target. Even now his odds are low.

We also don't know the abilities of the remaining scum.

Unfortunately one of my checks was modkilled but I'm willing to give up my life to keep a confirmed town alive and actually get some use out of my role.

So I'm willing to be today's Lynch, that will confirm Maxous as town and then scum have to choose between leaving Maxous or FL alive (they will leave FL alive for the saudade factor).

[RCEnigma]

I don't have the ability to confirm anyone else. That's why CT's modkill is so unfortunate.

[RCEnigma]

FL you have to understand even if Saudade is town we lose because he will be in lylo and he 100% should be the Lynch regardless of alignment.

[RCEnigma]

Flavor Leaf are you sure sephi is scum

Based on this?

Kill me first then, I'm voting saudade regardless so.

[RCEnigma]

AP what were your targets in order?

[RCEnigma]

Idk, I think everyone looks kind of town ish, except for saudade and FL is hard advocating saudade town. I'd actually vote Garmr for defending there. If Saudade is actually town then scum doesn't lose much by keeping him around. They just can't take him to lylo.

Ofhrz, the way I spoke yesterday should have been pretty obvious I was using a protective power, I hinted at being able to confirm myself with a no kill or at least get myself targeted.

With that in mind I commuted thinking I could be the target and scum thinks I'm using my heal on FL. It only partially worked, they avoided FL at least. Gamma made a hell of a play btw. Scum probably targeted him thinking he was saving FL as well.

[RCEnigma]

Inb4 scum has a roleblocker, but yes I can save you tonight. Afterwards I'm out of shots in my abilities so I'm counting on you to solve the game.

[RCEnigma]

CT getting the chop really hurt, it would have made this easy if he claimed what abilities he used on who.

[RCEnigma]

I don't recall Mr. Powers being so pedantic.

[RCEnigma]

The unfortunate part is even with the save I'm not confirmed and we basically restart the day.

[RCEnigma]

Aggggh this is a bad wagon. I'll Hammer if I have to in order to get a Lynch through but I think AP is just town here. Townies outside of FL....please convince him to Lynch saudade tomorrow or we will lose.

[RCEnigma]

Nvm I thought AP was much closer to a Lynch than he really is, I think some combination of garmr, Shattiel, saudade wins the game.

[RCEnigma]

I omitted ofhrz for some reason and you two could be a pair. Or garmr and Saudade. Though my order would be saudade/garmr/ofhrz/Shattiel.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Shattiel
I'll vote with my confirmeds. I don't feel good about this vote. Think FL being IC is throwing him off but that's just how it goes.

[RCEnigma]

This feels so bad, I'm around to switch if it's not on AP.

[RCEnigma]

Oh 17 minutes maybe not.

[RCEnigma]

5 min and idk the vote count. I'm on Shattiel unfortunately.

[RCEnigma]

AP who did you block by chance?

[RCEnigma]

Ifbyou think it's Maxous you have to think I'm the partner. That's the only way that read works. So fmpov that would leave ap and xx as no voters with scum potential.

AP if there was a strongman FL would have been the kill and then I easily become the mislynch for FL dying.

[RCEnigma]

Because I could save FL last night and if they kill me in the night they also confirm Maxous as town. Thats pretty simple, I didn't expect to die in the night. I did think scum would target AP if he were town though.

[RCEnigma]

Because I could save FL last night and if they kill me in the night they also confirm Maxous as town. Thats pretty simple, I didn't expect to die in the night. I did think scum would target AP if he were town though.

Then wouldn't they kill max or ap?
I want to think things over before I vote again.
UNVOTE: rc

Well to kill Max it would psuedo clear me. I claimed two investigative checks (CT and Maxous) CT flipped town already, killing Maxous would mean my only checks were both town.

That really only benefits me as scum if I kill both to claim the credit then wifom against AP whom would be town if I'm scum.

It also would have had to be a long con since I had no way of knowing CT would be modkilled.

[RCEnigma]

So all my abilities were 1 shot:

-Disloyal vig
-Cop check
-Commuter (couldn't be targeted) this was the night I tried to pull the night kill.

I very well could have lost this game for town last night. I don't have a protective ability. I just had to kind of bluff it to keep FL alive at least one more night regardless of who we flipped. If scum didn't buy it we lose FL anyway, I get lynched today and I think that's game if AP is scum. Town doesn't have a way to prevent 2v2 and I doubt there's only 1 scum left.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah, that doesn’t clear you at all. You have it flipped. Maxous can’t be scum unless you are scum, but you can be scum without Maxous.

Hmm I don't think I try to steer you off your Maxous tunnel unless he's my partner but I suppose you're right. Though me being scum probably just means AP is town.

[RCEnigma]

Well day 2 is when it was relevant, I was all for lynching Maxous and Shattiel day 1.

[RCEnigma]

I'm fine with a garmr Lynch, I still feel the way they slid into the Profii wagon was slimey. Even the justification that he has been pushing him the hardest all day. To be fair though a lot of this game has been follow the leafer.

[RCEnigma]

Based on the VCA I think we can rule out a team of AP/XX even without Nero's/creatures push against xx. AP and Garmr only vote together on flubber but numberswise there is always 1 between them if not both. Iirc AP moved on to the wagon without really having any opinion on the slot. I don't remember Garmr's interactions with flubber early but it is something I'll look into. Don't know how necessary that is even with a mislynch here (though I doubt garmr flips green) AP becomes confscum. If 0 scum voted on flubber I would be floored.

On a red flip I would Lynch saudade first, green Lynch AP obviously.

AP very well could nk in the night if he is scum but keep in mind a no kill doesn't give town an extra Lynch if we Lynch wrong today.

Haven't agreed with FL a ton this game but I think he's right on Garmr.

VOTE: garmr

[RCEnigma]

I haven’t given any thought process up until this game for you to agree with. I flat out told people I was channeling my inner NM this game.

Not regarding your thought processess, just the blind pushes (Maxous, Profii) specifically.

[RCEnigma]

If he's scum his partner is for sure voting him here so I agree xx isn't scum here and the reason I suggested a green flip implicates saudade.

[RCEnigma]

So I agree xx doesn't no kill as scum there even if it's in his range considering the gamestate.

It is however something I would expect from AP. But yesterday I pointed out the nk scenario and I'm not sure if AP follows through with it knowing that was out in the town and he wouldn't be considered clear for it or be able to pull a mislynch off it.

Which leaves me with Saudade. Still. The hammer isn't really relevant, Garmr was caught and dying there no matter what.

It's unfortunate because fmpov the game ends with a town win as long as the next two lynches are saudade/AP if the game doesn't end with the first of the pair we Lynch.

Maxous is just town here regardless of my alignment and he should be treated as confirmed. Either you think I'm scum in which case Maxous is mechanically town or you think I'm town Joat and Maxous was my disloyal vig shot.

[RCEnigma]

Town Joat
N1: disloyal vig shot - Maxous
N2: cop check - CT
N3: Commuted (untargetable)

[RCEnigma]

N4: Fake claimed a heal on FL

[RCEnigma]

Yes FL alterego.

[RCEnigma]

Town Joat
N1: disloyal vig shot - Maxous
N2: cop check - CT
N3: Commuted (untargetable)

Night 3 you were untargetable, but who could have made you untargetable? Were you unable to target or was your target not able to be targeted?

I made myself untargetable. It just means any night action performed on me would fail.

N4: Fake claimed a heal on FL

Why did you fake claim a heal on fl?

To keep him alive.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah, it’s just RCE probably

I mean that's mostly your blind love for other slots at the moment, not necessarily based on my play.

Speaking of, this is absolutely not my play if I'm the last mafia alive. So it doesn't make sense for me to claim Maxous as my shot and then take him all the way down into potentially lylo effectively removing a Lynch completely off the table.

With that in mind I don't also claim a protective ability going into the night putting myself into an unnecessary do or die situation where I now can't kill the confirmed town because I said I'd save him.

Fortunately I think the game is solvable with my mislynch....though it will be harder.

[RCEnigma]

FL is Inigi Montoya, you are his father, and I am prepared to die.

[RCEnigma]

I want you dead asap yes.

[RCEnigma]

Don't worry AP is right behind you on my list.

[RCEnigma]

No u

[RCEnigma]

Fml not like this dude. Ok so I'm going over the Profii Lynch which, if Saudade was scum, would have had all remaining scum with Saudade putting Profii at L-1 and Nos lolhammering.

I've been trying to read saudade on his demeanor these last couple of days because the wagons don't give much. He's voting with confirmed town no matter what.

Is it scum favored? Ehh maybe not but it creates enough wifom that it has the possibility to be. I don't know....maybe it is just AP.

[RCEnigma]

We lose to xx as scum 9/10 times here I think. It could be either saudade or AP fmpov and if it's AP in this position he is in a spot where he has to nk again or flip on Maxous which is my confirmed town. So if it is he just loses tonorrow.

[RCEnigma]

Dont think it's XX based on nero(creature) tunneling the slot. XX also had an interaction with creature/garmr who we're putting on scum theater pretty early that I don't think he injects himself into as scum.

This was specifically around creatures town null scum list early game where Creature called out every Garmr post as scum and Garmr went after Creature.

[RCEnigma]

We lose to xx as scum 9/10 times here I think. It could be either saudade or AP fmpov and if it's AP in this position he is in a spot where he has to nk again or flip on Maxous which is my confirmed town. So if it is he just loses tonorrow.

False. He'd have to flip on you.

Saudade then you.

It's also setup pretty well for him to do so. lynch Saudade, kill Maxous. Then have me choose between you and him, with XX likely following. It's not an easy win path, but I think its ScumAP's best chance at winning.

And my path to a scum win? I sound like a broken record bringing up CT but I cleared both CT and Maxous pre mod kill which both being town puts me in a bad spot to begin with. Best case I use it to pocket Maxous for the long long haul and bring him to a lylo situation without you (FL).

Actually now that I type it out I can see it given that the Modkills DID happen but as scum that would have been my only saving grace.

[RCEnigma]

We lose to xx as scum 9/10 times here I think. It could be either saudade or AP fmpov and if it's AP in this position he is in a spot where he has to nk again or flip on Maxous which is my confirmed town. So if it is he just loses tonorrow.

False. He'd have to flip on you.

Saudade then you.

Fair. He would have to claim to block xx, but he would also have to explain my night actions in relation to his blocks on me two separate nights one of which I innoed CT in the night.

[RCEnigma]

No u

[RCEnigma]

It's AP or Saudade so meh, the order isn't as important as both being the lynches if the game doesn't end with one.

[RCEnigma]

Intent to hammer in 24 hours. Not sure if you guys want to drag the day out.

[RCEnigma]

Gg wp. Ty for the game nk15.

[RCEnigma]

It would have been a different game but it happens.