Booneytoonz IX - Under The Sea -- Game Over!

[Kaito Momota]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76181&start=5875

To add on:

Because focusing on negative utility roles is a distraction and is the kind of thing I'd expect scum to be doing if both millers were town

[Kaito Momota]

first miller claimers are nearly always town. the later the claim happened the less credible it is since mafia will jump in when they see a lot of millers claiming

Disagree at the point you said this, I don't think the 2 players after th first 2 (sircakez and ladyangel) would fakeclaim miller there as scum

Chara claiming miller is suspect, especially since at this point claiming miller is akin to outting town power roles

[Kaito Momota]

not guilty

[Kaito Momota]

the anti-town aspects of me claiming miller when i did (and i think the reasons for claiming are better than the reasons against, anyway) are only anti-town if i'm town.

This is a dumb argument to be making, and comes across as trying too hard to show that you're town

[Kaito Momota]

VOTE: Maki Harukawa

[Kaito Momota]

I mixed up davesaz and sircakez and nobody called me out on it

[Kaito Momota]

townpoints for sheep for liking my posting and calling the consensus towniest miller "wolfy".

Sheep doesn't understand what he's saying, 50% chance to be town isn't "null", that's easily in lynch range, 70% chance to be town isn't really "wolfy"

[Kaito Momota]

not aligned with Maki, i think.

go on

[Kaito Momota]

VOTE: Wisdom

I agree with this, actually. Chara looks not-great as well

[Kaito Momota]

Wisdoms sideline play letting everyone talk yet still letting the wagon carry on is really bad.

yeah this is scum
maki has played like 10 games with me and has no excuse to say such bs

Sorry but no, you're looking pretty scum rn, you say things like this but you're usually scum when your posting is weak like this

[Kaito Momota]

Simply untrue

[Kaito Momota]

Assuming you're referring to me, of course, I'm not sure why I assumed that though

[Kaito Momota]

I wish I could gamesolve like davesaz does

[Kaito Momota]

maki scum, kaito dumbtown

next

what did you see as the difference between maki/dunn

I'm interested in this answer too

I actually like Kaito posts less

We get it - anyone who doesn't agree with your posts is scummy

[Kaito Momota]

actually I'm pretty sure I can do whatever I want

[Kaito Momota]

Hey Maki, a question:

Is it better to vote without reasoning or to provide reasoning without a vote?

Hint: You've done both so far

[Kaito Momota]

Hey Maki, a question:

Is it better to vote without reasoning or to provide reasoning without a vote?

Hint: You've done both so far

You mean my random vote on page 1? That's an interesting narrative you are trying to build there, tell me more.

Scummy

[Kaito Momota]

Could vote Chara

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito, what's your read on Maki and when did it change?

This feels like a leading question, I don't appreciate it

yeah Maki, sorry that wasn't clear.

Kaito: ignoring my questions and dancing around voting me back is a bad look. square up.

I honestly don't care enough, sorry if this seems aggressive (it is though)

yeah Maki, sorry that wasn't clear.

Kaito: ignoring my questions and dancing around voting me back is a bad look. square up.

Dunn is Dunnstral, in this game Kaito.

i have no interest in voting Wisdom for being Wisdom. his meta is not that he does more as town, and less as scum. Kaito said it was, but has yet to back it up.

i do think that if he's town he needs to try coming out with more than one read.

ohhh
is chara town.

Jury still in deliberation but they really liked this.

down boy

and also Kaito has been trying to shade me without committing to a vote, and he's on Wisdom for meta he refuses to actually back up.
never mind that he's sort of just refused to interact with me since our one conversation earlier. i think it's because he doesn't want to get into it with me and distract from Wisdom wagon/make Chara vs. Kaito an actual thing.

Here you go, just so you can shut up about it:

VOTE: Chara

I'll read the rest of the game tomorrow where I'm at I'm very happy with this vote

[Kaito Momota]

You know I'm looking back at who was on the Maki wagon I don't like Kaito's posts. He threw down votes on Maki and Wisdom no problem but keeps dancing around voting Chara. There's some kind of scum hesitation there.

VOTE: Kaito

You're an idiot

[Kaito Momota]

Since Alchemist keeps pointing to the first 16 pages and nobody called him out on it I'll assume there's nothing interesting in the last 16 that I need to read, so I guess I'm all caught up now

[Kaito Momota]

Anybody can say things, as Alchemist21 has just demonstrated for us

[Kaito Momota]

I haven't posted because Elsa/Clem's antics have made me care about this game even less than I usually do day 1, I'd be down to policy lynch at least one if we get nothing else (please, if there's a vig in this game, shoot them).

Oh lol

Has it ever been proven that scum like to tell the vigilante what to do more often then town yet? As an individual, not a town collective vote, I mean.

Still want the Angel that's perhaps a Lady to give her actual opinion on current matters.

I don't think this is true, your experience may vary from mine but I believe it to be the other way around (but only slightly... I don't think it's a big tell)

[Kaito Momota]

I'm not going to be happy in this game until Chara is dead

[Kaito Momota]

Hoo boy. Not sure if you genuinely don't know or if you're trying to poke the bear on that one.

Are you going to ever explain this or no?

Kaito has played with me a lot. i don't expect him to know every little thing about my meta, but i

know

he's aware of the big things.
i towntell when i heavily engage. i always towntell. he doesn't want to heavily engage with me, and is trying to use humour/his attitude to pretend like he doesn't care enough to. it's just a facade.

the only way Kaito is town here is if he's being so lazy he hasn't actually attempted to read me, but that "not going to be happy until Chara is dead" post pretty much discounts that.

[citation needed]

[Kaito Momota]

I think what this game needs is more armchair psychologists to come in and explain what my thought process is and why I would care about them as town, and how how my scum play revolves around suiciding myself into them

[Kaito Momota]

pretending not to care as scum.

Why would I have to pretend not to care as scum?

More armchair psychology, acting like you know how I'd act when you don't

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito's still scum, by the way. i just think Lady Angel is also scum. Maki's another candidate for me, but i really want to see her reply to Wisdom (namely to him not buying her Nikk vote) before anything.

Deadline’s in 4 days. I could vote Lady if the Kaito wagon doesn’t happen.

At least one scum in this bloc

[Kaito Momota]

I'm not ok with a Lady Angel wagon

We can do better than a lurker

They're more likely town than not because I don't think they would fake claim miller as scum

[Kaito Momota]

Can we move off of Maki onto one of these two? Wisdom? Pink Ball? Nikk?

[Kaito Momota]

we played after my ban together yet you mention "before my ban" and you don't say anything about my meta - you're just applying a generally standard meta on my playstyle here cause that fits your shading narrative better.

VOTE: Creature

We played a lot of games together on mu all after my ban. I refuse to believe you're posting here is based on a natural thought process cause it doesn't fit.

pedit: what is missing and why you just changed your story after I voted you and talked about you?

what about me begging for townread as town is new for you?

The reason I'm scumreading you has nothing to do with your mental state.

You're previous posts were like how you can see scum me begging for being townread now that I revealed your shading you're changing that to a full scumread ay?

You claimed you're scum reading me for something that is clearly a part of my personality and everyone who knows me knows that and you should have known that which means its related to my personal state.

I dunno whether you would beg to be townread as town too or not, but I find it worth pushing because it's generally scummy.

This is absolutely

horrendous bullshit

and why you're scum. Plus you post it like it was actually what you were considering all along after me mentioning why it makes you scum.

Why would creature scum be pushing you instead of anyone else?

[Kaito Momota]

Lady Angel wagon is lazy at best and scum driven at worst, and anti-town fits in somewhere in between

[Kaito Momota]

Forgot that Alch claimed miller

[Kaito Momota]

my read has nothing to do with that. i have a few things that have me sideeyeing Maki, but i'm waiting for her catchup first.

if you truly think she is incredibly towny (i don't think you are, though) that's cause for at least one raised eyebrow from me.
if Maki isn't caught up soon i'll just talk about the read.

I don't think the case on her good

She's neutral to me, I'd rather get someone I scumread

Pinkball fyi I was asking you to move your vote not recommending votes on you

[Kaito Momota]

VOTE: Wisdom

[Kaito Momota]

The Maki vote was pure bandwagon

How does that make me scum?

as was his next vote on Wisdom.

How does that make me scum?

Then he defends Maki from Wisdom despite having just voted her.

How does that make me scum?

and it seemed more brought on by frustration than anything.

So? What's your point?

The wisdom vote also seemed quite random at the end of the iso.

How does that make me scum?

Overall there isn't much to work with here

and what there is is pinging me enough to suspect him.

This is the same reason people were just voting you - it's not a good one, which you said in the same post

[Kaito Momota]

[Kaito Momota]

as for your Kaito read: you don't need to mention him all of the time

preach it haha

oh wait...

[Kaito Momota]

A question:

Maki, Dave, Kaito


What are your thoughts on each other?

Well I think I'm pretty town

[Kaito Momota]

I've given a read on both and I stand by those reads

[Kaito Momota]

Also am I allowed to ask random questions like that as well? Maybe to fish for something to push on? Just 3 random names?

Nikk, Firebringer, Clemency


What are your thoughts on each other?

[Kaito Momota]

Wisdom, Frozen Angel, Alchemist21


What are your thoughts on each other?

[Kaito Momota]

Elsa Jay, Chara, Creature


What are your thoughts on each other?

[Kaito Momota]

This is the part where I come in and point out how the above interaction makes Chara look worse, since if Elsa Jay is scum she isn't in a position to bus

And then you guys can do the same for me

[Kaito Momota]

Chara coming in here and hard defending anyone who votes/susses me is really obvious by the way

Either scum motivated or extreme bias - or both

[Kaito Momota]

first miller claimers are nearly always town. the later the claim happened the less credible it is since mafia will jump in when they see a lot of millers claiming

Disagree at the point you said this, I don't think the 2 players after th first 2 (sircakez and ladyangel) would fakeclaim miller there as scum

Chara claiming miller is suspect, especially since at this point claiming miller is akin to outting town power roles

I mixed up davesaz and sircakez and nobody called me out on it

Not really looking over my iso, just looking for something to push me on?

[Kaito Momota]

Maybe go through it a third time

[Kaito Momota]

We're going to end up no lynching at this rate, I think, I don't know the vc

[Kaito Momota]

Clemency has double my posts but maybe a generous 10% as much talk about anything he's done... at all this game a

[Kaito Momota]

Meanwhile I can't even make a post without chara coming in here all like "Well if kaito were town, actually he'd be doing this and this" and alchemist coming in with the same "kaito didn't vote for chara so he's scum" that he posted seven and a half day ago that nobody really agreed with when he started with it and nobody really cares about it now, but he still feels the need to shove it into the game.

Lady angel straight up ignored me. Actually, there's no indication that she's even read the thread since her last post, which is ok but then it brings up other questions. Why is Nikk a good vote, Lady angel? What made you come to that conclusion.

[Kaito Momota]

While I'm at it, Firebringer is almost suspiciously quiet in this game. Their posting is fine, just their rate of posting is really low. Not that I know them to lurk out as scum or anything, it might not mean anything.

Maki, i've decided to townread Kaito being unhelpful and snarky because he's seemed more logical and careful as scum in a few games, and "rougher" as town.
would you consider that an okay metric or a terrible one?

Terrible he did the exact same thing in a scum game a bit ago it's not something you should tr him based off of

I see you throwing shade by the way

[Kaito Momota]

I don't think I like a Nikk lynch

(actually I don't care anymore), and I feel better about Wisdom too

Going to copy his list and replace the reads with my own:

Maki Harukawa - nullscum
sheepsaysmeep - nulltown
Clemency - scum
Elsa Jay - null
davesaz - nulltown (nullscum without miller claim)
Pink Ball - town
Firebringer - nullscum
Kaito Momota
Wisdom - nulltown
Lady Angel -nulltown (null without miller claim)
Creature - null
Frozen Angel - town (same with miller claim)
Nikk - nullscum
Alchemist21 - nullscum (scum without miller claim, which I keep forgetting about - reconsider if clemency is scum)
Chara - nulltown (same with miller claim)

VOTE: Clemency

Just the fact that nobody is talking about him at all while he's doing absolutely nothing points to him being scum off associations. I think this is a valid method of reading someone.

But hey, guess what, I don't think Alchemist and Clemency are scum together in this game. Their interactions are minor but I'm convinced it's not scum on scum acting. So now there's another reason to back up the lynch.

Clem because of the way he's shitposting is different of his scum!shitposting. When he's scum he's more self aware of him doing nothing and not providing anything to the thread. Here he doesn't gives a shit and he still has provided reads.

?????????????

What??????

This is the scummiest post by far this game and we've had Elsa just messing around half the game. Kaito is a strong scumread.

Clemency is straight up omitted from text where he should logically fit in. Elsa messing around all game... by herself? Isn't there another guy there? What?

Elsa Jay might be scum. I had written things off as shitposting, but on review there is a remarkable lack of useful stuff. As in almost as little as Wisdom has.

Like, what is this? More Clemency omission where by all rights the poster should be talking about them. It's some kind of magic.

Clem has a high post count and sometimes has content when he posts.

Both are null atm because neither of those are AI

No joke, this post describing Clem made me move Nikk from nulltown to nullscum in my reads. And then I lookedk through the rest of Nikk's posts again and I'm liking it less and less. This is a scum on scum interaction if I've ever seen one, and even if it isn't it's so detached from reality that it's scummy again, because they're just saying things. Anybody can say things. If you're honestly that bad at reading comprehension/recognizing what's going on then it doesn't really matter what alignment you are anymore, get out of the town before you hurt somebody.

Even if it isn't scum on scum it still looks bad for nikk for me. Maybe Clem just has superpowers thatmakes people ignore him? Can somebody point out this supposed Clemency content? All I see is him talking about millers when everybody else is talking about it - the peak of his contributions seems to be 'I don't think the millers are scum because I wouldn't claim miller as scum' which isn't even an original thought and looks more like scum wifom than actual town contribution, and then he occasionally references Elsa who nobody wants to lynch anyway and naked votes a few other people.

You know what happens when I don't post anything? Nay, when I post things but I'm not spamming the thread with 4 posts in a row?

sheep and FA are town, Alch is probably town that posts things that ping me for scum. Creature's start is good.
Elsa/Kaito can go.

Maki seems to be solving, Kaito seems to not be solving.

the only way Kaito is town here is if he's being so lazy he hasn't actually attempted to read me

Kaito, you have to respond to my posts at some point. and don't tell me to quote them when my ISO is twenty posts.

one - though constantly brought up

kaito (there are posts and all are game related but I don't see any engagement or fire)

two

Overall there isn't much to work with here and what there is is pinging me enough to suspect him.

three

Maki seems to be solving, Kaito seems to not be solving.

four - how's that one working out for you by the way?

Kaito is forgettable.

five

There might be more, there might not be, I'm not going to look anymore, but the word to describe this all is 'Selective Outrage', and it's something each and every one of you participate in all the time, and yes it does make you less of a genuine person, I'm not going to sugar coat things.

I could make an entire separate section pointing out all the times people got upset at me "naked voting" while nobody points at Clemency too (spoiler - he does it a lot, and doesn't explain his reads, and will probably vote whoever has the most votes at deadline), but at this point it's redundant, if you really care you can take a look at clemency interactions yourselves, after he's dead today. We are killing him, by the way, and no amount of "this is just how he is" is going to move my vote off him - what will move my vote off of him is if Nikk is still parking their vote on me at 12 hours to deadline, I'll simply move my vote to him (unless clemency is happening) and leave the thread until the next day - if you guys no lynch after that it's on you


Who do we have calling out clemency? Just lady angel? In a giant wall that most people probably didn't read anyway, and that could have just been manufactured for their lurker buddy by any half-competent scum team anyway? I mean, she seems to be scumreading people for changing their opinion anyways. But that's a tangent - Davesaz mentioned players not doing much in general, but just refers to either just elsa, or "elsa and clemency" as some kind of dynamic duo (they're not, they are different players and can have different alignments).

[Kaito Momota]

So it's a horrible wagon because you've read overkill II and redflag, and it's a horrible wagon even though nobody else has read his games, and that's that?

Here's your valuable opinion:

When he's scum he's more self aware of him doing nothing and not providing anything to the thread. Here he doesn't gives a shit and he still has provided reads.

Is this your meta on him?

He's provided reads ONCE (ok, maybe 1.5 times) all game and they weren't anything special:

fa's probably town
elsa smells but that's usual
uh
chara feels towny

Hardly anything to get excited about, I wouldn't say this excludes him from being scum. I'm not ignoring anything, all he has is this post, some talk about elsa later, and then he says he likes his reads at one point. At other points people have to prod him for stuff "would you vote x? What do you think of x?" And he's just doing the equivalent of shaking his head yes or no

[Kaito Momota]

I don't fully understand what you're saying his meta is

I'm very hesitant to trust something akin to "he's more trolly as scum" or "he doesn't care, so he's town"

[Kaito Momota]

And 2 games isn't enough to represent a significant data set - it's simply not enough information to determine whether there is a pattern. Epecially when it's an (imo) rather minor change of gameplay that

[Kaito Momota]

You admitted yourself that Clem was amongst the weakest of your townreads earlier

[Kaito Momota]

VOTE: nikk

Care to share a reason?

No one else jump in please, this question is for Clem and Clem alone.

can i offer you the lyrics of Sheer Heart Attack by Queen
because it is 7 in the morning and I have not slept and that's the only thing going through my head right now
i need a doctor

i cant look like a genius prodigy child without being horribly unhealthy

can i offer you the lyrics of Sheer Heart Attack by Queen
because it is 7 in the morning and I have not slept and that's the only thing going through my head right now
i need a doctor

No. Play the game please.

yeah my vote is in the right place

yeah my vote is in the right place

So that's a no for giving a reason then?

nope

Shit like this is why I can't take Clemency seriously. Don't complain about being called noise if you're not going to respond to someone's attempts to engage you seriously.

hahah
i'd rather watch him self-destruct over it

This whole exchange is what you're talking about I'm guessing

Doesn't look like scum v scum now that I look at it, same reason as with Alchemist (of course, clem isn't confirmed scum though)

[Kaito Momota]

i want you to just go look at that spontaneous flash mob wagon and keep the scumchat in your mind

oh, do scum have day chat?

[Kaito Momota]

i want you to just go look at that spontaneous flash mob wagon and keep the scumchat in your mind

See you next prod

[Kaito Momota]

I thought that Wisdom could be a N0 cop with a guilty on Maki

That's not really a thing on this site

I quoted clem's vote and push on Nikk - it didn't seem significant to me. Can you outline the significance, because I'm just not seeing it

[Kaito Momota]

I think n0 cop qualifies as a "non-normal" which would further exclude it from this setup

Not 100% on that

[Kaito Momota]

non-normal role*

[Kaito Momota]

If you had noticed what Kaito noticed, everyone only talling about me, you'd realize you were on the chopping block as a last minute lynch.

Go on...

[Kaito Momota]

My own theory on the millers is that town has a neapolitan or vanilla cop to attempt to sort things

[Kaito Momota]

I mean, it's pretty obvious that you knew what you were doing when you brought Clem up during the last day.

When?

This sounds an awful lot like an accusation Elsa Jay, but can you clarify what you're talking about

[Kaito Momota]

You're right, what we should really be doing 1 day away from deadline:

VOTE: Lady Angel

There can be only 1 Angel in a game at a time.

[Kaito Momota]

How do you feel about post 969 from Lady Angel? The one with all the reads, do you not have an opinion?

[Kaito Momota]

Seriously though, I have no idea which way I want to go with this lynch. I'll abstain for now.

This might be more accurate
You sure seemed content to sit back and let whoever else get lynched in the meantime

[Kaito Momota]

How about instead of accusing me of something, you just explain why Clementine is town?

[Kaito Momota]

Like I said, I've pocketed him enough times as town AND scum to know this is Town him. Heck, I even knew town him would deny the Masonry, though I wish he didn't.

So if he was scum, he would have accepted the masonry? Can you back that claim up somehow? Show meta or something?

How many times is "enough times"?

i'm very paranoid about being pocketed by elsa like usual, but i'm gonna say that's a townlean for now

If you were saying you pocketed him this game, this doesn't look like he's necessarily pocketed by you - in fact he never gives a read on you after this occasion. Wow, that was some time ago too.

The mason thing is super weak. Can you put any of this meta into words? Better words preferably, not a binary "he would do this as town, he would do this as scum"

[Kaito Momota]

Read all the spoiler tags Lady made and... Wowo. I feel like we hit the goldmine. Bonus points for being the only one to care about Clem denying being my Mason buddy.

It also reminded me that after the events Nikk said "yeah I'm townrrading you for that" and ignored me now. That's still a weird sign in my eyes. The laziest attempt to pocket someone?

"I'm townreading you so I can ignore you now." Kinda thing.

Kind of like Clem ignored you?

[Kaito Momota]

^ Actually, retract that, it's not really accurate

I noticed your post though

[Kaito Momota]

This is all because Maki called out the possibility of the Millers not being trustworthy. Which, frankly, I'd probably have done later considering I went for Alch the moment he claimed second Miller.

As for a Kaito lynch?... Guess we gotta look into it.

And if you dance around voting me for too long, you may draw Alchemist21's ire

[Kaito Momota]

I'd rather lynch a town clemency today than end the day in a nolynch, make of that what you will

[Kaito Momota]

Chara might even argue that it's preferable to lynch town over scum today, though I don't subscribe to such logic

[Kaito Momota]

I'd rather lynch a town clemency today than end the day in a nolynch, make of that what you will

Can't we still push another wagon?

I don't know, ask Elsa

[Kaito Momota]

What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

This isn't a trial of peers. This is a bloody execution chamber!

If we're not lynching Clem, then who would we lynch? I don't want to no lynch

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito suddenly hyperposts despite being in no personal danger.
Why did that happen?

First off I'm not even sure this is correct
Second off I didn't like our wagons. I felt I could get a better read on Maki later and I didn't want to vote out Nikk at the time - actually seeing their reaction I don't think I want to lynch them again

[Kaito Momota]

I'm town because Clemency voted me

[Kaito Momota]

For real though, Elsa came in here, tried to dissolve the wagon, but can't answer to who we should be lynching instead, and also has no good arguments for a no lynch, but has the gall to complain about our votes

[Kaito Momota]

Which wagon are you referring to there?

Clem

[Kaito Momota]

all the votes on me except for alchemist are scum
see you next prod

i want you to just go look at that spontaneous flash mob wagon and keep the scumchat in your mind

shut your fuck

nah
the wagon on me is dumb
there's not enough dumb people to follow on it

well, simple solution
VOTE: kaito

i cant believe so many of you are actually falling into this lmao

idk why everyone's glossing over my actual posts where i tried

sigh
you've got 18 hours to stop being lead by scum

I'd say around these places

[Kaito Momota]

I'm town because I kept my cool while the wagon on me was building.

Clem's defense seems like panicked scum, but I want to read some clem games to see how he reacts to wagons in general.

Good post

[Kaito Momota]

Maki looks like scum to me and the fact that she didn't comment on anything I did (I even called her nulscum) seems telling

I don't really believe clementine's claim and would be willing to lynch him today. Make him claim tomorrow and push that again. Then lynch him anyway. He's going to claim something you won't want to lynch - that's because he's scum

[Kaito Momota]

Nikk looks like town

Let's get maki or clem

[Kaito Momota]

My word Maki, that sequence was scummy as all get out and lost you any goodwill towards towniness you had with me.

VOTE: Maki

Going on instinct here and trusting my gut. While Clem's play has been scummy and counterproductive I believe the PR claim for now.

How was it scummy? The clem wagon was bad so if I can prove it's bad by getting a lynch on it when I didn't see a valid lynch target before is that so bad? No, it's not.

rehashing what other people said on last few pages to defend yourself

[Kaito Momota]

Full on Maki is scum, I'll vote her if we're not doign CLem. But it looks like we can still do Clem. Can we?

[Kaito Momota]

I'm going to be signing off for the night soon (about an hour or so)

If anyone has any questions let me know. I'm at L-2 and have already all but roleclaimed so not sure what more I can give.

FMPOV scum team is Maki, Dave and Kaita. In that order of confidence.

Don't know why you choose to continue to play dumb at deadline

[Kaito Momota]

Can we vote maki?

[Kaito Momota]

The fact that Clemency keeps popping up when he supposedly went to sleep just proves he's scum

[Kaito Momota]

fucking lynch me
if kaito is town i'm leaving this site permanently

Alright bye

[Kaito Momota]

lol what
what about it doesn't come from scum

I'd expect him to have been coached if he had to fake a power role. Still, he'd be encouraged to tell what his actual role is.

Coached by who? Sheepsaysmeep, who you just said was scum? Your logic isn't adding up

[Kaito Momota]

Besides all he has to do is say "i'm pr" and people get afraid

Not to mention all the people who came out of the woodwork to defend him as soon as his wagon formed

[Kaito Momota]

Regardless, if town has killing power I'd like to see it aimed at maki harukawa tonight

[Kaito Momota]

38 minutes... Are the votes close?

[Kaito Momota]

That's strange creature, I can't remember where you ever said that clemency felt like town before this wagon popped up

[Kaito Momota]

Votecount 1.5

Nikk (4): Lady Angel, Pink Ball, Elsa Jay, davesaz
Clemency (4): Kaito Momota, Wisdom, Alchemist21, Maki Harukawa
Maki Harukawa (2): Firebringer, Nikk
Lady Angel (1): sheepsaysmeep
Kaito Momota (1): Clemency
Creature (1): Frozen Angel

Not Voting: Creature, Chara

With 15 alive it’s 8 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-14 08:51:00)

Trust me I saw the softs.
I don't see any Nikk votes though atm

I'm voting Nikk, join us newly nullread of mine

VOTE: Nikk
Weee

VOTE: nikk

hm

VOTE: nikk

VOTE: Clemency
i'll be here at deadline to hammer if necessary.

Off to work.

Self preservation.

VOTE: Clemency

[Kaito Momota]

[Kaito Momota]

Full on Maki is scum, I'll vote her if we're not doign CLem. But it looks like we can still do Clem. Can we?

This also marks4 games in a row if you're town...yikes

Note this deflection

It's not even true, by the way.

[Kaito Momota]

Also her reads aren't as developed as what I'd expect from her

She just tunneled some guy all day

[Kaito Momota]

Yeah, I'm a threat for scum's wincon

Goodbye

fake

[Kaito Momota]

Dunno, there are still town wanting to lynch you

yeah but they'll fail

I thought you said everyone voting you was scum?

[Kaito Momota]

Good work everyone

Maki or Clemency today?

[Kaito Momota]

Sounds like a fake claim to me

[Kaito Momota]

The modifier is called Desperate

What you're thinking of is called "disloyal" - you're lying

[Kaito Momota]

Actually Maki's role would explain the number of millers

That's why she fake claimed it

[Kaito Momota]

VOTE: Clemency

[Kaito Momota]

Maki isn't going behind anyone suspect because she's scum who will lie about her results to get out of being lynched for another day

Clemency needs to claim his role today or die

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito is now 0/2 for pushing scum and 2/2 for finding PRs. Wonderful.

VOTE: Kaito Momota

I haven't gotten a single townie killed this game

[Kaito Momota]

Maki isn't town

She's fake claiming

[Kaito Momota]

Maki isn't going behind anyone suspect because she's scum who will lie about her results to get out of being lynched for another day

someone who wants to live doesnt claim a role that involves dying
remember how i claimed vengeful and ensured id die in dnd?

She doesn't want to live

She wants to make it to day 4 alive

[Kaito Momota]

except she doesn't, because we would never act on a report from Maki until she's suicided on actual town at night.

Except this town would believe any claim

[Kaito Momota]

So I do think you guys would act on it, sorry

[Kaito Momota]

She doesn't want to live

She wants to make it to day 4 alive

that's fair, but does it hurt us to get her to get a report tonight, and then have her die?

I'm voting Clemency, I suggest you do the same. But if Maki claims a guilty tomorrow we're lynching HER first

[Kaito Momota]

I'm up for lynching Maki tomorrow, I just don't believe that anybody will actually do it

[Kaito Momota]

This isn't how town maki pushes on me

[Kaito Momota]

Anyways, I claim Vanilla Cop, Clemency is vanilla

[Kaito Momota]

I retract my claim by the way

Turns out people do believe any claim made, as Clemency got super defensive about it - that doesn't look like a reaction town has towards someone they 'know' is scum

[Kaito Momota]

VOTE: kaito

What happened to taking a look at Clemency yesterday, btw? Why did you disappear at deadline, forcing a Nikk lynch?

[Kaito Momota]

The fact that people are voting me after what happened yesterday is mind boggling

[Kaito Momota]

kaito can you explain to me why you think clemency reaction was scum defensive versus town defensive?

Town roleblocker knows I'm lying there

Town reaction: "I cc" - nothing else needed in his position

Scum reaction: He's counter claiming me so I either go all in and claim and try to sway public opinion and then die tomorrow, or say I was faking being a pr which will probably get me lynched

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito has no reason to make that claim in the first place

Not true

We get to see Clemency's reaction - what he does when put on the spot like that.

We needed to get his claim today anyway before lynching him. You know what I would do if I were scum? I'd kill him at night instead of pushing during the day. I believe that he is fake claiming and he threw on the roleblock on me claim at the end to make sure it seemed like I couldn't have checked him

[Kaito Momota]

And no, just because he voted himself doesn't make him town

[Kaito Momota]

And yes, scum can be angry

[Kaito Momota]

you wanted a full claim

Who did?

[Kaito Momota]

I think Wisdom is being quite reasonable this game day

[Kaito Momota]

you wanted a full claim

Who did?

you fucking did

Why are you listening to me, if I was confirmed scum from your point of view?

[Kaito Momota]

kaito can you explain to me why you think clemency reaction was scum defensive versus town defensive?

Town roleblocker knows I'm lying there

Town reaction: "I cc" - nothing else needed in his position

Scum reaction: He's counter claiming me so I either go all in and claim and try to sway public opinion and then die tomorrow, or say I was faking being a pr which will probably get me lynched

this.

"you're lying, i roleblocked you". that's something. why claim the doc shots?

because i'm a town multitasking two shot doctor two shot roleblocker
you wanted a full claim

i didnt

i said no

?

[Kaito Momota]

then i had to full claim because you lied

But you didn't

[Kaito Momota]

Besides, it's not like town would believe every role claim anyway

[Kaito Momota]

then i'll ask again, why did you fullclaim? if it's not because Kaito wanted it.

even though you literally just said it was because of Kaito.

because everyone's been fucking pressuring me to, all game

When?

[Kaito Momota]

Dang Clemency, I wish you kept the emotional stuff out of this

[Kaito Momota]

i don't think Clemency is scum.

What do you think about Elsa?

[Kaito Momota]

then i'll ask again, why did you fullclaim? if it's not because Kaito wanted it.

even though you literally just said it was because of Kaito.

because everyone's been fucking pressuring me to, all game

This isn't true to my knowledge, I think I'm the only one who asked for a claim

[Kaito Momota]

i don't think Clemency is scum.

I'm 50/50

I don't like giving players a pass for being angry/overly emotional out of policy

I'll move on for today though

VOTE: Elsa

[Kaito Momota]

we're sure as fuck not voting elsa right now

I thought you were going to sleep btw?

[Kaito Momota]

Just pointing out that that line of inquiry about why Clemency claimed led to nowhere, he just stopped talking about it after what was either a transparent lie or voices in his head telling him to fakeclaim

[Kaito Momota]

Uh, bad timing?

[Kaito Momota]

Can we look at the Nikk wagon from yesterday, even if we're not comparing it to Clemency? And I don't mean the last few votes at the end when there wasn't an alternative. I think that was a bad wagon.

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito has no reason to make that claim in the first place

He does if he thinks clemency was bsing a pr claim in order to force him to commit to it

Faking vanilla cop is trying to fish a pr at best. Clearly, scum motivated he could've reaction tested in a dif manor. This was meant with pure scum intent

Chara come on

This isn't town

Why aren't you concerned with her pushing on me btw?

[Kaito Momota]

Maki, come on, you know that isn't true

[Kaito Momota]

most likely one of the remaining Millers.

If scum is hiding in the millers, why was Alch killed? Or is that a smokescreen?

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito has no reason to make that claim in the first place

He does if he thinks clemency was bsing a pr claim in order to force him to commit to it

Faking vanilla cop is trying to fish a pr at best. Clearly, scum motivated he could've reaction tested in a dif manor. This was meant with pure scum intent

i disagree but youre tunneling so it doesnt matter

You're correct that I'm tunneling. I haven't been wrong when I've called him scum as town before though so I don't see a reason to stop.

You claimed your role so a wagon wouldn't form on you

You'll say you weren't pressured but you were going to be for sure

[Kaito Momota]

Maki, come on, you know that isn't true

Huh? I'm scum, aren't I? Why would I stop

I'm trying to be reasonable here, you're trying to latch onto everything I say

[Kaito Momota]

Elsa's content frankly sucks and she doesn't seem to be considering things like Alch kill or Nikk wagon at all - I feel town should be concerned at least a little by these things

[Kaito Momota]

Maki, come on, you know that isn't true

Huh? I'm scum, aren't I? Why would I stop

I'm trying to be reasonable here, you're trying to latch onto everything I say

you're also doing that

see you next prod

[Kaito Momota]

Maki, why aren't you concerned with Chara's reaction to your push btw?

[Kaito Momota]

Pulling Sheep's name out of your ass doesn't do well in incriminating me, you know.

Do you think the Alch kill means there's less likely to be scum in millers or more? Since Alch was a miller himself

[Kaito Momota]

The easiest way to get people to think you're town is to get them to pity you. But if you do it as mafia, you're perceived as a bad person. Because you're playing with their emotions... or so they say, but I don't think this is fair. Why should town be allowed to throw a tantrum, but if someone does it as scum they get blacklisted by people? Shouldn't the mods step in once the town throws a tantrum, to keep things fair? I don't like the concept of gaining an advantage because you were fundamentally having a breakdown as town

Furthermore, if you think Clemency looks town after his reaction to me, you might be thinking you should then vote me, because I was 'wrong', right? Well, no, you shouldn't, I'm the one who stuck my neck out to get Clemency to get a reaction - make no mistake I was going to push on him all day until he eventually got run up, and then he'd have to claim anyway. Anyway, the point I'm making is, you guys wouldn't have even had the thought that Clemency's reaction was town if there was no reaction.

Thinking logically, if Clemency if telling the truth, and I was roleblocked, that actually makes me less likely to be scum

[Kaito Momota]

Maki isn't town

[Kaito Momota]

VOTE: Kaito Motomoto

Why are you being dumb right now

[Kaito Momota]

Maki's read me wrong in the last 2-3 games we've played together anyways

but ok

[Kaito Momota]

Make no mistake, if you guys lynch me you will lose the game

[Kaito Momota]

Maki's read me wrong in the last 2-3 games we've played together anyways

but ok

Wrong. The closest to me being incorrect was saying 'gun to my head he's town' when I had you at null in an off-site game.

can somebody please link them? if i have to go searching through your alts i will cry. :<

I don't think she wants the off site games linked

You remember excalibur?

[Kaito Momota]

Make no mistake, if you guys lynch me you will lose the game

And you will lose with us

Not sure what you're getting at, it's not like I'm self voting or asking for people to lynch me

[Kaito Momota]

I may have been brash in my haste to want to murder scum, but we should wait for both of the Angels, Dave, and Sheep to appear.

All those guys are useless anyway, might as well do whatever without them

[Kaito Momota]

i was thinking about Excalibur. it's true she never did say you were town, i just thought she'd been implying it because she didn't contradict that post where i said "Kaito is locktown because Maria isn't scumreading him". which would have been nice to have her contradict, but that game's over.

Let's go over this again

Maki is scum
She claims to avoid being lynched today (regardless of what she would have you believe, that's where the day was headed)
She gets me lynched today
She claims to hide behind someone during the night, she doesn't die
She gets someone else lynched day 3
Day 4 she gets lynched, meanwhile 4 town have died and mafia are about to win.

This is a 15 player game. What's the ratio?

What if there's a mafia traitor? What if maki's the mafia traitor and is suiciding to get people she knows is town out of the game? And then she doesn't die until the game is in lylo

[Kaito Momota]

I may have been brash in my haste to want to murder scum, but we should wait for both of the Angels, Dave, and Sheep to appear.

All those guys are useless anyway, might as well do whatever without them

... Throwing shade at half the playerlist also won't do you any favors.

Dave would probably vote me anyway, Sheep probably won't vote me anyway, the other 2 won't even read it

[Kaito Momota]

He had right to be suspicious of you because you were kind of letting things play out instead of taking stances

[Kaito Momota]

Make no mistake, if you guys lynch me you will lose the game

And you will lose with us

Not sure what you're getting at, it's not like I'm self voting or asking for people to lynch me

Oh you don't get it? You're not so clever huh

I'm trying to win for town, that includes dragging half of you across the finish line by your feet

If I'm dead we lose. Look at the playerlist - what are they doing right now? How many people here are doing something besides tunneling, sheeping, or doing nothing at all? You really think this band of misfits can win this game without me here?

[Kaito Momota]

Chara you don't get to talk for all of town, She claimed power role so they're going to lynch who she says and try to get another result from her the next night

[Kaito Momota]

Why can't you be scum?

[Kaito Momota]

He had right to be suspicious of you because you were kind of letting things play out instead of taking stances

you're right, i was doing that. when i'm unsure about what to do i have a problem where i just don't post. i also do it as scum, but in that case it has to do with fear of looking scummy and not fear of being wrong.

speaking of, what's your read on me now?

I think you're town

[Kaito Momota]

I really like the theory where Maki is a mafia traitor

[Kaito Momota]

You're smart enough to put 2 and 2 together that 1) If I was scum I wouldn't make a fake claim that means I can't make endgame
2) My role makes perfect sense for why we have so many millers in the first place
3) You've never gave any reasoning for why I'm scum besides me pushing you today. (Something you always do) You called me nullscum and said it's because I don't comment on your stuff. Strange you also stated in other games that scum me comments on all your stuff.

1) Sure you would, you had suspicion on you and you advance the scum wincon greatly in the process
2) That's why you could have fake claimed it
3) Untrue, I was calling you scum day 1

[Kaito Momota]

Pink is probably town, sucks that he has to be dragged past the finish line by his feet if we ever want to win though

[Kaito Momota]

Doesn't look like town elsa to me

[Kaito Momota]

I'd vote Firebringer today

[Kaito Momota]

Actually maybe not

[Kaito Momota]

You're smart enough to put 2 and 2 together that 1) If I was scum I wouldn't make a fake claim that means I can't make endgame
2) My role makes perfect sense for why we have so many millers in the first place
3) You've never gave any reasoning for why I'm scum besides me pushing you today. (Something you always do) You called me nullscum and said it's because I don't comment on your stuff. Strange you also stated in other games that scum me comments on all your stuff.

1) Sure you would, you had suspicion on you and you advance the scum wincon greatly in the process
2) That's why you could have fake claimed it
3) Untrue, I was calling you scum day 1

These answers are all you need to see why Kaito is scum btw. Instead of considering them he just gives convenient answers not even good ones either. His third answer is a blatant lie you can see that in his iso. His second answer is wifom because he has no other answer for why we have 5 miller claims. the first is just false and he knows it. He's just acting like he doesn't

OK, let's go over these.

You say the first is a blatant lie. How? I say that you claimed as soon as you got into thread so you could later say "oh I had no reason to claim". Which, if you were town, you didn't. Why did you claim if you didn't think you were going to be pressured today? Did my push matter that much to you?

The second one is easy to explain. There's another role that interacts with the millers. They haven't claimed, either because they don't want to or they haven't read the thread yet.

Third one, you say it's a blatant lie, and that you can see it in my iso. Well, ok, so "Untrue, I was calling you scum day 1" is a blatant lie that you can see in my iso? Let's look at my iso:

Going to copy his list and replace the reads with my own:

Maki Harukawa - nullscums.

Maki looks like scum to me and the fact that she didn't comment on anything I did (I even called her nulscum) seems telling

I don't really believe clementine's claim and would be willing to lynch him today. Make him claim tomorrow and push that again. Then lynch him anyway. He's going to claim something you won't want to lynch - that's because he's scum

Nikk looks like town

Let's get maki or clem

Full on Maki is scum, I'll vote her if we're not doign CLem. But it looks like we can still do Clem. Can we?

Can we vote maki?

Regardless, if town has killing power I'd like to see it aimed at maki harukawa tonight

Wait, that sure is a lot of me calling you scum yesterday... actually, have you even read my iso? Why are you pushing on me? Chara? Hello???? ????

[Kaito Momota]

This is all because Maki called out the possibility of the Millers not being trustworthy. Which, frankly, I'd probably have done later considering I went for Alch the moment he claimed second Miller.

As for a Kaito lynch?... Guess we gotta look into it.

And if you dance around voting me for too long, you may draw Alchemist21's ire

Alchemist21 was killed in the night!

Spoiler: What was he?

Town Miller

Day 2 begins with a deadline of (expired on 2019-01-31 19:15:00).

[Kaito Momota]

Maki just demonstrated that she hasn't been paying attention to my iso at all actually

This isn't town maki looking to lynch scum me. This isn't how she plays

[Kaito Momota]

Congrats on quoting 5 posts where you called me nullscum after 1100 posts? You'd have brought me up much sooner. Let's talk about your progression on me:

None of that changes the fact that you saying it was a blatant lie was in itself a blatant lie

[Kaito Momota]

You want to know why I claimed? Because I know I'd get pushed today

ok.............. That's what I've been saying

[Kaito Momota]

And I believe you were saying the contrary earlier

That or someone was against that idea

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito seems to be in a 1v1 with Maki/Clem and lynching him is probably the best thing at the minute. I'm hesitant to vote and put him to L-1 now given how fast the day's going, but should Kaito flip town one of Maki and Clem is probably scum?

I believe Maki's claim as well, although more due to it making sense with the number of miller claims than the fact that scum wouldn't claim a role that wouldn't get her to endgame. I'm not sure if I believe Clem's, however, but given the level of emotion going through Clem this day I'm inclined just to leave it alone.

If I die get Maki then Clem in that order

Clem is 50/50 still, not sure if upset town or scum - the thing about 50/50's is we take those though

[Kaito Momota]

We should have Maki hide behind Clem, and if she's still alive we lynch her

[Kaito Momota]

Reread how her claiemd role works

[Kaito Momota]

... But if Maki hides behind someone we know about, then scum immediately can kill her AND Clem.

You just suggested we kill 2 PRs in one fell swoop.

None of what you're describing here is possible

[Kaito Momota]

reverse?

Can only hide behind people who would show up as "Aligned with the mafia." on cop reports. If I target someone who would show up as town I die

[Kaito Momota]

Another person who didn't read the gameday but instead just pushes on me for unknown reasons (probably because I'm pushing on them)

That's 3, can we get a 4th?

[Kaito Momota]

Saying I predicted anything is a stretch... what are you talking about?

If Maki is town the best thing she can do is die at night confirming someone who would have been lynched as town. If she hides behind someone and guilties them we lynch her first, if she hides behind more millers we lynch her

[Kaito Momota]

It's technically correct to allow maki 1 night to use her role

[Kaito Momota]

This game is solved easy enough when Elsa dies now. Let's use his death as a domino effect and crack this game wide open.

[Kaito Momota]

I approve of this Firebringer posting

[Kaito Momota]

Actually maybe not

[Kaito Momota]

Alright it's time to make a case, I don't like that nobody is really doing anything aside from pushing me (or not) - no names are really being thrown around. Notably Frozen angel received her prod during the night but hasn't posted since (or Gamma messed up and she should be out of here.

So here's what we're going to do - we're going to vote out Lady Angel today. I'm willing to let the two 'power roles' live for today, I'm even willing to look in places other than elsa, so this is where I want to vote now.

VOTE: Lady Angel

I think I weighed the fact that she claimed miller as townier than it really was... If I look past that for a moment she fits in as scum, and unlike you lot I'll even give good reasons.

First, she's only loosely reading the game. Now, this is a big deal because she made a wall post with thoughts on everyone earlier. I think this was either to get out of being lynched or given to her by a scum partner. Seriously, she still hasn't even acknowledged that I've been questioning her wall. She also hasn't acknowledged this whole interaction in any way:

I may have been brash in my haste to want to murder scum, but we should wait for both of the Angels, Dave, and Sheep to appear.

All those guys are useless anyway, might as well do whatever without them

... Throwing shade at half the playerlist also won't do you any favors.

Dave would probably vote me anyway, Sheep probably won't vote me anyway, the other 2 won't even read it

Which is all fine and dandy, maybe she just ignored it. Maybe she's into that? I don't know, I won't judge, I'd have definitely responded to it at the very least. I'm guessing this mean she indeed is only loosely looking at the thread - and if that's the case then new concerns are raised about her content.

Kaito seems to be in a 1v1 with Maki/Clem and lynching him is probably the best thing at the minute. I'm hesitant to vote and put him to L-1 now given how fast the day's going, but should Kaito flip town one of Maki and Clem is probably scum?

I believe Maki's claim as well, although more due to it making sense with the number of miller claims than the fact that scum wouldn't claim a role that wouldn't get her to endgame. I'm not sure if I believe Clem's, however, but given the level of emotion going through Clem this day I'm inclined just to leave it alone.

Let's stop tunneling on me for one minute and take a closer look at this - why am I the best lynch at the moment? Remember,

She hasn't read a good portion of the game.

Let's look at what I said earlier about her read on me:

The Maki vote was pure bandwagon

How does that make me scum?

as was his next vote on Wisdom.

How does that make me scum?

Then he defends Maki from Wisdom despite having just voted her.

How does that make me scum?

and it seemed more brought on by frustration than anything.

So? What's your point?

The wisdom vote also seemed quite random at the end of the iso.

How does that make me scum?

Overall there isn't much to work with here

and what there is is pinging me enough to suspect him.

This is the same reason people were just voting you - it's not a good one, which you said in the same post

Let's just focus on the last part for now. There isn't much to work with and what is there is "pinging her enough to suspect me". There seems to be plenty to work with, I'd think an updated read would be in order. Or any acknowledgement of anything I've said to her, instead of posturing around voting me yet not actually doing so (spirit of Alchemist21 yada yada).

"I believe both pr claims" is an easy stance for scum to take. Let's theorize that they're both town for a moment: Mafia kills the doctor and the hider likely dies at night. That's the easiest stance in the game for scum to take, they'll both just die. Of course, if they're not both town then this is also a bad stance to take as one of them will still die and the other is a positive stance on a scum partner.
That's not the full extent of her read though, she said that one of clem/maki are scum if I'm town. Now, while this is probably true, it also sets off alarm bells for if it isn't.

Kaito seems to be in a 1v1 with Maki/Clem and lynching him is probably the best thing at the minute.

No seriously - why am I the best lynch at the moment? because everybody else is voting there? Where's the original thought? It all evaporated once the pressure did on day 1.

This brings me to my second point:

VOTE: Nikk

I think this feels best right now.

She voted Nikk yesterday. I believe we should be looking at the Nikk wagon, but that's not the extent of my read, after voting out Nikk she hasn't really done anything with it. Nikk lynch didn't even matter apparently, no new info to work with, no new insights, nothing changes for her reads apparently, just lynch me when I wasn't even on the wagon.

Third point:

I'm town because I kept my cool while the wagon on me was building.

Clem's defense seems like panicked scum, but I want to read some clem games to see how he reacts to wagons in general.

She says things she doesn't mean. Yeah she never intended to actually read Clem games to see how he reacts, yeah she'll never talk about it again unless she's pressured. So why did she say it? She's trying to give the illusion that she's working on something, somehow contributing to the game.

[Kaito Momota]

I dunno how to sort the millers rn.

Well it's interesting that one was killed at night. Did mafia think a miller could also be a pr?

[Kaito Momota]

You know what happens when I don't post anything? Nay, when I post things but I'm not spamming the thread with 4 posts in a row?

sheep and FA are town, Alch is probably town that posts things that ping me for scum. Creature's start is good.
Elsa/Kaito can go.

Maki seems to be solving, Kaito seems to not be solving.

the only way Kaito is town here is if he's being so lazy he hasn't actually attempted to read me

Kaito, you have to respond to my posts at some point. and don't tell me to quote them when my ISO is twenty posts.

one - though constantly brought up

kaito (there are posts and all are game related but I don't see any engagement or fire)

two

Overall there isn't much to work with here and what there is is pinging me enough to suspect him.

three

Maki seems to be solving, Kaito seems to not be solving.

four - how's that one working out for you by the way?

Kaito is forgettable.

five

[Kaito Momota]

Reviewing myself to bring this game back into memory.

Kaito suddenly hyperposts despite being in no personal danger.
Why did that happen?

I don't remember if I was satisfied that we understood this.

Not sure what there is to understand - I can post a lot if I want to. For some reason people really like pointing at my activity in particular - You were talking about how I wasn't doing anything earlier, now I'm doing too much. Why do you care?

I knew I kept confusing myself with the numbers somewhere on the line. So there's 13 alive.

Sigh. Now what, Kaito?

I want to lynch Lady Angel

[Kaito Momota]

Are you or are you not pocketed by Wisdom, Kaito? Just want to see where you stand with him.

Nulltown - possibility of him being scum exists but I think likely town

[Kaito Momota]

I townread both Clem and Maki, and they both turn out to be PRs. Right now I feel like I deserve the confidence I got in my reads.

Neither have flipped

[Kaito Momota]

I before E, except after C, or when it sounds like 'A' as in 'neighbor' or 'weigh' - or if the word is weird. basically the entire rule is a sham. Why do we put up with it?

A weird foreigner neither seizes leisure nor forfeits height, being either a sovereign sheik or counterfeit geisha.

Look at all those words that break the rule - well at that point it's not much of a rule is it? More like a guideline nobody follows - kind of like how nobody is following Maki/Clem anymore and they need to provide new content. They're the weird, sovereign, counterfeit geisha's right now.

[Kaito Momota]

Really they're the outliers, while most people here don't give any content at all, they go out of their way to give bad content

[Kaito Momota]

There's no such thing as a neutral stance when something significant (like a forest fire, or a hit and run, or a wagon on me dissolving) happening. You're either actively for something, actively against something, or passively allowing something to happen. How does everybody identify themselves?

I assert: There's no such thing as a neutral stance. If you are not responding to something for a significant period of time, you are allowing it to happen, whether that's because you don't care about it or for other reasons. Maybe your plane crashed on a deserted island on your flight to Paris, I don't know. It doesn't matter if you're running away from a polar bear in the arctic, amidst the fear of the bear somewhere in the back of your mind should be the thought 'this bear is important, that is why I am passively allowing Lady Angel to be lynched, as I have more pressing issues to deal with and can't spare the time or energy to write a post.'

With that in mind, here's how I see the Lady Elsa Wagon:

Actively against it: Wisdom (Not sure to what extent)

Actively for it: Kaito, Elsa Jay, Pink Ball, C hara (to a certain extent)

Passively allowing it: Clemency, sheepsaysmeep, Lady Angel, Maki Harukawa, Creature, Firebringer, davesaz, Frozen Angel

Alright, looks pretty good, there's only 1 person actually against the wagon. Maybe I'm being impatient with some people, but I personally think the amount of time given to changing wagons + opinions has been more than sufficient. If you're not doing anything right now, you're allowing Lady Angel to be lynched through inaction - it's the direction the game is headed.

[Kaito Momota]

vote kaito

Shouting stop won't put out a fire

Saying 'vote kaito' isn't going to change Lady Angel momentum

You're still passively allowing her to be lynched, even if you're putting up a front

[Kaito Momota]

vote kaito

Looks like I've been had again by master troll Clemency

[Kaito Momota]

vote kaito

We can engrave this on your tombstone after you die

[Kaito Momota]

I am playing as a team. Me myself and I are all working hard to deliver a scum lynch for you guys.

Seriously though, how am I not 'playing as a team'?

[Kaito Momota]

strong objection to a dunn lynch

dunn feels obvious town

someone try to sell me

VOTE: nikk

hm

Maki Harukawa
sheepsaysmeep
Clemency
Elsa Jay
davesaz
Pink Ball
Firebringer
Kaito Momota
Wisdom
Lady Angel
Creature
Frozen Angel
Chara

from what i remember

chara is a villager
creature is a villager
wisdom is a villager

those three are basically lock

fire, dave, clem all strong villas

leaving fa, lady, dunn, pink, elsa, maki

can someone catch me up on claims

Interesting progression here