Open 745: 9:12 [Game Over]


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Post Post #11 (isolation #0) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:23 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I hear hecklers only make comedy routines better, so let me play my part here.

Vote: rooroo
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Post Post #38 (isolation #1) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:22 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 19, kitcat wrote:getting early townpings on invisibility
In post 20, Slaxx wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: kitcat
In post 21, kitcat wrote:do tell
I like this exchange for kitcat, not sure yet if I like it for Slaxx or not. I'm always a sucker for trying to get early reads, and the reaction reminds me a lot of the somewhat eye-rolling feeling of getting naked voted as town. I mean, I disagree with the reasoning in if only for the fact that—if my memory serves me correctly—I've gotten townread in
every single
scumgame I've played for that exact reason. Even still, I think it's a good look for kitcat.

In post 31, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Pink ball would probably be my second choice for a vote right now.
I'm leaning towards that as well myself. Better than where my vote is now, at least. That being said, I'm your first choice? I'm hurt.

Unvote

Vote: Pink Ball
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Post Post #39 (isolation #2) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:23 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 35, Slaxx wrote:I don’t do RQS if I think the questions are dumb.

The questions are dumb.
Looks like a tough crowd. Rooroo, you're gonna need to bring your best material.
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Post Post #68 (isolation #3) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:03 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 45, Slaxx wrote:Zippitty bippity bop

VOTE: Invisibility
Explain what scum motivation you see in Invis' play so far? This reads to me like voting someone just for not liking something that they did. You say that you don't like the amount of effort that he put into his vote – do you think that makes him scum?
In post 47, Sleepless Assassin wrote:
In post 32, Pink Ball wrote:Because I'm drawing attention? So you caught two scums because of calling attention? Is calling attention only a scum trait, or can town call attention too?
Is this at me? I don't believe that one alignment gets attention more than the other. It depends on the other players, not the player who attention is actually on. "Drawing attention" is a non-tell that new players tend to use as a tell.
You've seemingly indicated that I'm your first choice for a vote. Why? For that matter, why is Pink Ball your second choice?
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Post Post #69 (isolation #4) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:09 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Invisibility is town. Kitcat can be town. I would like it if rooroo would show herself to be town soon.

Still leaning scum on pink ball, but I'd like it if people would follow me onto here.

Unvote
Vote: ofrhz
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Post Post #115 (isolation #5) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:52 am

Post by CultOfAthena »

I'm ready to policy lynch half of this playerlist.
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Post Post #132 (isolation #6) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:20 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I'm fine with Eyes being town as well for now.
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Post Post #512 (isolation #7) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:10 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I'm gonna be honest here. Coming back to see that someone was already hammered and the game was in night phase kind of got me checked out of this game.

That being said, I have read things here and there, and I'm not entirely without reads.

I trust my Invisibility townread.
I think kitcat is pretty obviously town.
Eragon I also think is town.

Excluding myself, that leaves {SA, Slaxx, rooroo}. If we're feeling a little spicy we could even exclude rooroo for —which I thought was mildly towny—leaving us with just {SA, Slaxx}. But, that might be a bit too spicy.

Anyways, call me lazy or whatever, but I feel pretty alright voting Slaxx after everything I've just said combined with him pushing a mislynch on one of my townreads.

Vote: Slaxx

L-2.
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Post Post #513 (isolation #8) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:13 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 502, Slaxx wrote:I totally baited him into doing that. Bait doesn't have to be scummy.
In post 505, Slaxx wrote:
In post 504, kitcat wrote:Yeah the baiting felt bad to me.
I'm not sure it's inherently
scummy
but it does feel manipulative - like you were trying to set up a favorable argument for yourself against someone who couldn't defend themselves as well
It was 100% manipulative, but I think I had a pretty good basis for doing it. I'm fairly well known for shit like that, I just got out of a game where I suggested we mod kill a slot that mod accidentally cleared to fish for reactions from the 2 remaining unclears. I had no intention of actually modkilling the slot. It was actually Chibi's game lol.
Also, in my experience I've found people claiming things like this to somewhat reliably be scum. If someone's calling you out on something scummy (pocketing, manipulation, buddying, baiting, whatever) or basically just has you caught, you can't deny it and trying to deflect is unlikely to work – the smart play as scum is just to own it and say that it doesn't have to be scum-indicative.
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Post Post #514 (isolation #9) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:18 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Actually, on second blush I have to wonder if SA is the better first vote. It's 50/50 on whether scum!Slaxx would be bussing scum!SA right here, and I think SA is probably always scum here regardless of if Slaxx or rooroo is the buddy. Getting the better likelihood scum lynch today would be better for PRs.

I'm open to being convinced.
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Post Post #525 (isolation #10) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:40 am

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 515, Slaxx wrote:... then why would you need convinces to vote SA if you think I’m scum half the time and he’s always scum?
It was part thinking that you're the higher value scum lynch as compared to a higher likelihood lynch and part just not wanting to change my vote after a single post, just on the principle of it.
In post 522, rooroo wrote:
In post 513, CultOfAthena wrote:Also, in my experience I've found people claiming things like this to somewhat reliably be scum. If someone's calling you out on something scummy (pocketing, manipulation, buddying, baiting, whatever) or basically just has you caught, you can't deny it and trying to deflect is unlikely to work ? the smart play as scum is just to own it and say that it doesn't have to be scum-indicative.
suppose you are doing one of those things. what would the town response be if admitting it isn't?
In my experience, town isn't doing those things and thus won't admit it. To an accusation of, say, pocketing, a townie would flat out deny that it was happening, likely because that wasn't their intention at all. In contrast, scum are more likely to think of themselves as caught and try to explain it away.

This isn't to claim that town
never
does those things - I'm not claiming some universal scumtell.
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Post Post #528 (isolation #11) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:01 am

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 527, Invisibility wrote:hi
VOTE: sleepless
my nullreads are rooroo, coa, and sa
out of the three, coa is probably the worst
he hasnt presented that much original thought and also has done some weird shading ("There's no good reason for town not to share these thoughts.")
in fact i might put sleepless to scumlean
also im not really taking into account the pink ball nk
i mean it kinda makes sense if you think a scum doesnt like pinku because he might be a durdley PR trying not to reveal info and draw the NK
in fact it kinda makes sense for sleepless for force pink's hand and drop a few PR pings
yeah that makes sense
You say my name, and then you quote something that SA said while saying "he".

I assume you meant to refer to SA as "probably the worst"...?

How are you reading Slaxx right now?
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Post Post #532 (isolation #12) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:37 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 531, rooroo wrote:
In post 514, CultOfAthena wrote:Actually, on second blush I have to wonder if SA is the better first vote. It's 50/50 on whether scum!Slaxx would be bussing scum!SA right here, and I think SA is probably always scum here regardless of if Slaxx or rooroo is the buddy. Getting the better likelihood scum lynch today would be better for PRs.

I'm open to being convinced.
actually, what rules out slaxx/rooroo fypov?
Nothing specifically as it relates to the association between you two, something which I realized shortly after making that post. I simply think that SA is scum a greater percentage of the time here, necessarily implying that {SA, Slaxx} and {SA, rooroo} teams are more likely than {Slaxx, rooroo}.
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Post Post #538 (isolation #13) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:45 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 475, Eragon wrote:IMO more likely it was someone trying to get me to push SA, and draw my attention away. Im not going to bother diving into who this would be, because its dumb speculation that means nothing.
What, this?

I think on principle you're probably vastly overestimating the amount of thought that scum put into specifically deceiving you, and only slightly less overestimating how much thought went into the nightkill in the first place. I see people make both of those mistakes incredibly consistently.

My bet? There were ~4-7 posts of discussion about who to lynch and they chose someone because "he looks kind of like a PR" or "I don't think we can lynch him" or something similar.


Although, that's just my idea of how scum plays in general. I'd imagine if Slaxx is scum he probably went pretty deep into it. If SA is scum I picture the opposite for him.
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Post Post #541 (isolation #14) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:52 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I mean, I suppose you could make the argument that Pink Ball was killed for having SA as his top townread and/or some other combination of who his scumreads were.
In post 449, Pink Ball wrote:@slaxx using your same metric:

Inv->Slaxx->Eragon-> /// kitcat->CoA->rooroo /// SA

Why do you have rooroo so up?

p-edit you already answered. I really think I can get a better read on rooroo on D2, but the way she's playing pings me. She could argue it's because of being an alt, but some things never change :cool:
Looking at this point certainly doesn't do any favors for Slaxx – it doesn't do any for Invis or Eragon, either, but that doesn't fit my confirmation bias, so I'm gonna choose to ignore it.

I don't really think the whole single-night NKA is very conclusive in the first place, so—absent a convincing argument to the contrary—I don't think I'm going to let it change my opinion all that much. Either way, conclusive or inconclusive, I still feel pretty good about where my vote's at right now.
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Post Post #546 (isolation #15) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:00 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 540, Eragon wrote:where did you get the slaxx scumread
I feel like I've explained myself pretty well. If you have a more specific question, just ask.
how is kitcat "obvious town"
She's questioning Slaxx over perceived inconsistencies and scummy behavior and is pretty earnestly trying to understand his mindset as opposed to trying to, say, push a mislynch or convince others on something. This has happened all while she's already townread by both the person she's questioning and what seems to me like the rest of the playerlist, so I don't particularly see any scum motivation.

It's just sort of apparent to me, and I'm willing to look foolish if I'm wrong there.
why did you townread eyes
I liked , and .
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Post Post #547 (isolation #16) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:01 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I would appreciate it if you took a moment to read, if not the whole thread, just a few posts ahead before you respond to something.
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Post Post #554 (isolation #17) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:12 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 548, rooroo wrote:if it's not poe then why are you scumreading SA?
I've played with SA before. He was good – really good. He was a big part of the resaon town won, and I might've even called him "powertown".

Now, that game was a while ago now—maybe even a year, now that I think about it—and I get that it's not necessarily fair to expect someone to play the same in every single game. Even still, he's just not here this game. Hasn't really asked any good questions, hasn't had any good presence. Those things are enough that I'd take them as scum-indicative on their own, but for SA especially it's noticeable.

Sure, he's had big effort posts like , but that seems to me like scum forcing themselves to put a lot into a game rather than town naturally having investment into a game.
In post 549, Eragon wrote:so basically

you scumread SA more than Slaxx, yes?
However, you feel Slaxx has a greater scum equity and (pardon me if this isnt your intention) you think slaxx is less likely to get lynched later on so why not just nip the flower in the bud and get it over with.

am i right?
Sure.
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Post Post #556 (isolation #18) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:13 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 553, Eragon wrote:so cluelessness, lack of reads, and cluelessness?
No, no, and no.
really your only explanation is PoE and you dont like slaxx's accpetion of the "bait"

i agree kitcat is towny.

i dont see obviously though
Sure, you can believe that if you want.

If you agree with me I really don't care to continue this conversation.
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Post Post #618 (isolation #19) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:01 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 558, rooroo wrote:hot take: athena didn't vote sa here because they're partners

this is the first time she's mentioned a scumread on sa and now only when he seems like a popular scumread even though I think his content was decently scummy on d1 and she supposedly expects him to be obvtown by meta
Have you considered that I wasn't around for essentially the majority of Day 1? I mean, I'm not sure when you're expecting me to have voiced this.
In post 562, Slaxx wrote:Bonus points for the fact she voted SA after me despite it being iffy logic to do so based on her own post.
I've explained myself, and I don't recall you responding. What exactly is "iffy"?
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Post Post #621 (isolation #20) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:34 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 619, Slaxx wrote:Holy shit. That was from town to scum. Not scum to town.

I think I know why the night kill didn’t make much sense now.
Oh, shows what I know.

Your second line is pretty ridiculous though. I mean, really?
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Post Post #623 (isolation #21) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:55 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I find it hard to believe you actually had the thought in the first place, but whatever.

I figure that with the current gamestate scum probably needs me to be lynched, so I'm sort of waiting for the case or whatever to drop.
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Post Post #625 (isolation #22) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:05 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

The thought of "Athena misread PB's readslist, that explains the strange nightkill".
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Post Post #642 (isolation #23) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:42 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 631, kitcat wrote:So I townread everyone but Slaxx and SA which means I'm probably going very wrong somewhere
Why?
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Post Post #648 (isolation #24) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:50 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 643, kitcat wrote:Feels almost too easy and I'm not sure if Slaxx starts the day bussing his partner
I think, absent a good reason, disregarding something for being "too obvious" isn't a good idea. Try what you think is obvious, and if that doesn't work,
then
reconsider. Obviously it looks like I'm biased, but still.

Why don't you thunk Slaxx busses SA here?
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Post Post #659 (isolation #25) » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:24 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 649, kitcat wrote:Not sure if Slaxx was in a good enough position at daystart to deliberately bus day2 - I'm not sure if the bus would have been enough to propel him to a win in 3way
Meh, I'd argue that with the right NK choices, coming into Day 2 it'd look like he could. Both Invis and Eragon—if I'm recalling correctly—townread him, rooroo and I were both unknowns, and I
think
that he would have known that you'd scumread him. Not sure.

I'd argue that it's a decently playable strategy.
In post 651, Invisibility wrote:hi
my reads really havent changed that kinda sucks
like i felt like scumreading coa but that felt too confbiasy to get another read so i didnt
You just... felt like scumreading me? I'm not sure I get what you're saying here.

A lot of people seem to
want
to scumread me, but it doesn't feel like anyone's truly committed. I'm not entirely sure what to make of it yet.
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Post Post #666 (isolation #26) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:56 am

Post by CultOfAthena »

Not really.

My ego wants to say that scum wants to scumread me but there really just isn't much there for them to try to case off of. Probably not the case, but eh. Perhaps more realistically—and less egotistically—is that people feel antsy having too many townreads and so the possibility of me being scum is a comforting one, even before people
really
have reasons for it. That might be a bit too much armchair psychology, though.

So, again. Not really.
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Post Post #690 (isolation #27) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:34 am

Post by CultOfAthena »

Ping Slaxx.
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Post Post #691 (isolation #28) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:40 am

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 685, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Cult's stuff about scum needing her lynched feels like an attempt to scare people away from voting there. Like, she gave gamestate as a reason so I assume she means the fact that everyone has too many town reads, so why doesn't the same thing apply to slaxx or myself?
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here. Why don't I think it's the case that scum needs you and Slaxx lynched? Well, because I think you're scum in the first place – my saying what I said comes from the perspective of knowing for a fact that I'm town and comes within the context of my existing reads. Of course it wouldn't apply to you.
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Post Post #735 (isolation #29) » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:08 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Unvote
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Post Post #736 (isolation #30) » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:10 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I don't counterclaim.
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Post Post #740 (isolation #31) » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:18 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Assuming that nobody counterclaims:

Taking every townread I had previously, that leaves me with SA/rooroo left. To make a bit of an ironic move, however, I don't really feel comfortable with that.

I think my Eragon townread is worth relooking at.
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Post Post #858 (isolation #32) » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:55 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Hey. Gonna read up fully in the morning, although I skimmed a bit.
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Post Post #859 (isolation #33) » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:56 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I mean, not that I expect much to actually change my mind at this point, but at least to respond to things.
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Post Post #893 (isolation #34) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:52 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Yeah, my apologies. Just sort of randomly lost a lot of motivation and don't have much of an explanation for it.

I'm not exactly sure why I'm seen as SA's number one partner or even a likely partner of his at all, but whatever. I mean, I think I remember reading that it's because I didn't vote him after Slaxx's claim, but I would have been immediately hammering him had I done that.

I'm pretty confident Eragon is the last anyways so I'm certain town still wins even after my lynch, but obviously I should strive to avoid that.
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Post Post #894 (isolation #35) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:52 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I'm around now if anyone else is.
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Post Post #895 (isolation #36) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:53 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Also, goes to show how much just being around and being present is a factor in not getting lynched. It aligned with actually being scum in the case of SA—not that that was why he was lynched—but not so much here.
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Post Post #896 (isolation #37) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:01 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Meh, maybe I will tryhard this game. It would hurt my fragile pride being lynched over this fucking guy.
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Post Post #899 (isolation #38) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:17 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Here's my piece:

If you think I would do the classic newbie scum "scumread your partner but say there are better lynch options" and do it in a way like I did it then just lol. I'll maintin until now that my reasoning was logical given the thought of Slaxx + SA scum. SA could get lynched regardless of if I pushed him or not. Slaxx could've talked his way into the win in LyLo. If you want to read an actual attempt at diversion from SA, read , or . (Honestly, "likely it was someone trying to get me to push SA, and draw my attention away"? Really?)

Skitter, I knew who you were from the moment you said "VLA on weekends". If you think I kill Pink Ball over you or even over Slaxx... lol.

If you think Eragon deserves to be townread for his Gamma Emerald catchups and posting animal pictures or gifs or whatever... lol.
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Post Post #900 (isolation #39) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:20 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 897, kitcat wrote:
In post 893, CultOfAthena wrote:I'm not exactly sure why I'm seen as SA's number one partner or even a likely partner of his at all, but whatever. I mean, I think I remember reading that it's because I didn't vote him after Slaxx's claim, but I would have been immediately hammering him had I done that.
Cuz there's only 3 people scum could be and i townread the other 2 more.

Also my vote on SA was the third (ie right after slaxx's claim and right afrer you said you didnt cc)
Yeah.. so like I said. I would have been hammering when I made .

If you expected me to
immediately
be like "oh well guess Slaxx is conftown and i'll just head down the list then"... I'm not sure why you would expect that.
In post 898, kitcat wrote:
In post 895, CultOfAthena wrote:Also, goes to show how much just being around and being present is a factor in not getting lynched. It aligned with actually being scum in the case of SA—not that that was why he was lynched—but not so much here.
This is explicitly not an acticity based read
I'm not saying it is. I'm saying that people who are active tend to just by osmosis tend to be more townread while people who disappear for a while tend to, even without
that much
reasoning behind it, get more scumread.

It's just something I've noticed spectating games recently.
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Post Post #904 (isolation #40) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:27 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

You know the funny thing? The duck thought the same thing recently regarding "historically can't townread" and such when it came to an early read — as if I can't learn from recent games, especially given that you're both thinking of basically the first game together after coming back from a break. It was wrong then, it's wrong now.
In post 901, kitcat wrote:No idea why you don't nk me? But that happens a lot in a holistic sense so i don't give too much credence to me not being nk'd anymore really
Be honest with yourself. This is cop-out reasoning.
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Post Post #905 (isolation #41) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:32 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 902, kitcat wrote:
In post 899, CultOfAthena wrote:If you think I would do the classic newbie scum "scumread your partner but say there are better lynch options" and do it in a way like I did it then just lol
Well, its more the lack of voting him at any point
I outlined my reasoning fairly clearly. What does not voting him have to do with anything when that would literally have gone exactly against what I was thinking?
In post 903, kitcat wrote:
In post 899, CultOfAthena wrote:If you think Eragon deserves to be townread for his Gamma Emerald catchups and posting animal pictures or gifs or whatever... lol.
Yeah his catchup was townie
You really shouldn't think so.
His associatices with SA were meh
:neutral:
But just being so *accepting* of the necessity of his lynch today is incredibly townie too
:neutral:

Not really.
What do you think of vizzie
I sincerely doubt he's scum, and I've thought so for a while.
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Post Post #909 (isolation #42) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:37 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Well, I'll qualify that. I think in
most
situations I would townread someone directly suggesting that they be lynched in order to solve the game further. I have encountered situations where it's come from scum, but for the most part I think it comes from town.

Someone accepting "if my death is what it takes then so be it" or whatever as just sort of an acceptance of themselves as being scumread, however, I would
not
townread – in fact, I would say that it's a common move for scum in this kind of situation.
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Post Post #913 (isolation #43) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:40 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 906, kitcat wrote:Uh think of thr last game i played with scum!you. When did i die again?

P-edit bleh you got me on mobile
You died the first opportunity after a Mason and conftown. That's when you died.

Consider that this game is happening after that game, when I know for a fact that you'd be averse to the same thing happening twice (which is obvious from what's going on now, but I digress).
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Post Post #916 (isolation #44) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:42 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 912, kitcat wrote:
In post 911, skitter30 wrote:I don't understand the distinction you're drawing, or why eragon embodies the lattter
There are situations where people directly suggest their own lynch. In my experience this has come from town more often than scum.

There are situations where people accept "my lynch doesn't matter because I think we win anyways". Not only do I do not think this comes from town any more than it comes from scum, I think in some situations this is scum's
only
option.
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Post Post #917 (isolation #45) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:43 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 913, CultOfAthena wrote:
In post 906, kitcat wrote:Uh think of thr last game i played with scum!you. When did i die again?

P-edit bleh you got me on mobile
You died the first opportunity after a Mason and conftown. That's when you died.

Consider that this game is happening after that game, when I know for a fact that you'd be averse to the same thing happening twice (which is obvious from what's going on now, but I digress).
Also, let's flip this on its head: why do I kill PB?
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Post Post #920 (isolation #46) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:45 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Whatever. It actually fucking makes me mad that this guy gets away with his terrible associatives being called meh, and I make one singular mistake on a 50/50 when it comes to my two top scum suspects and get called partners for it.
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Post Post #923 (isolation #47) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:46 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 919, Slaxx wrote:
In post 449, Pink Ball wrote:@slaxx using your same metric:

Inv->Slaxx->Eragon-> /// kitcat->CoA->rooroo /// SA

Why do you have rooroo so up?

p-edit you already answered. I really think I can get a better read on rooroo on D2, but the way she's playing pings me. She could argue it's because of being an alt, but some things never change :cool:
In post 460, Slaxx wrote:6. Sleepless Assassin
7. Slaxx
8. kitcat
9. Pink Ball

Actually isoing Eyes maybe Cult should be the first
Don't start with the conclusion and look for reasoning after the fact.

In post 921, Slaxx wrote:Flip the flip on the head on the head: why does inv kill PB?
I don't think invis is scum.
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Post Post #925 (isolation #48) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:48 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 922, Slaxx wrote:I guess it could be eragon but you should be HAPPY because we will lynch him tomorrow if your flip doesnt end it
I'm prideful. Arrogant, even. I don't like being lynched. I don't like being lynched over someone like Eragon. I don't like being lynched in a game where I feel like my reads were pretty good even.

Yeah, I don't think town loses this game. That doesn't make me feel any better about it.
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Post Post #927 (isolation #49) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:49 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Yeah, yeah. "Scum in this situation needs to have an excuse for not getting lynched first!!" or something like that.

If I do get flipped first, that'll be one misconception of many cleared up.

Scum in this situation does exactly what eragon does and pretends that they don't care about being lynched. Nonchalance is what scum fake. Level 2 tells as opposed to level 1.
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Post Post #929 (isolation #50) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:52 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 924, kitcat wrote:I died like the night before lylo

But yeah rhe second paragraph is fair.
I'm a little wary of you talking me out of lynching you by being reasonable sounding
I'm not trying to be reasonable here. Well – I always try to stay reasonable. I am trying to be direct here. I don't care about pocketing you, or making you feel good, or whatever.

I want you to recognize that I am town and that Eragon is scum. I want you to recognize that my logic was perfectly legitimate Day 2. I want you to recognize that Eragon's posting Day 2 is plainly partner indicative.
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Post Post #931 (isolation #51) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:52 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 928, kitcat wrote:Yeah he's doing that. But i feel like scum are more survivalistic and/or defeated, as opposed to being like - it literally doesnt matter the order, go ahead, i know we win kf we lynch me/you in any order
What exactly do you mean by "survivalistic or defeated"?
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Post Post #933 (isolation #52) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:53 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Like, I'm serious. If you're concerned about me pocketing you or whatever, then stop talking to me any time and just go back and
really look through Eragon's Day 2 posting
.

If you really think it's only "meh" on being partner indicative then I want to hear why.
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Post Post #935 (isolation #53) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:54 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

It matters to me.
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Post Post #944 (isolation #54) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:03 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

What's town indicative about Eragon's posting? Don't mention "accepting that he might be lynched".

Why
would I do what I did as scum? Consider that by scumreading SA I am recognizing that eventually he would be lynched, and give me enough credit that, if I had knowledge of everyone's alignment, I could recognize that what I was doing with SA would look partner-indicative. Why would I do that? I can tell you personally that if I were scum I would have either hard gone for Slaxx, rooroo or even Invis, or would have more strongly bussed SA.
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Post Post #945 (isolation #55) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:05 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 940, kitcat wrote:Feeling like you've just lost so you lack motivation for playig
That tell doesn't apply to everyone. I don't think it applies to Eragon, and that's not just in the context of this game.
Teying to get the lybch off of you because you know if you get lynched you've lost
Consider that this kind of effort can be made without once consciously mentioning lynching someone else over you – that just attempting to look very towny through your posting is an attempt to get the lynch off of you.
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Post Post #951 (isolation #56) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:08 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Actually, I'm full tryhard now. I don't care how many days it takes. I'll be here day and night every day until the deadline runs out writing wall after wall if that's what it takes.
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Post Post #962 (isolation #57) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:20 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 958, Eragon wrote:If CoA tips town, I will vote myself in the first post tommorow

Solemn word
See, this shit is faked. I know that saying this actively increases the chance that I get lynched today, but if by some miracle Eragon flips town here, I will be doing literally everything in my power to convince whoever's alive that I'm town.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Scum are too scared to take the direct route that they think looks like it's scum motivated, so they try to look nonchalant. It just looks faked here.

I care about winning this game and not being lynched because I'm town.
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Post Post #964 (isolation #58) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:20 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 957, Eragon wrote:I’d much rather you be lynched, but as I’m confident that invisi is town, town wins either way.
Then vote yourself now.
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Post Post #966 (isolation #59) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:21 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 960, kitcat wrote:coa you're really good scum

(i should have said that last game, sorry)
Not really. That game was a fluke. The fact that you're thinking this should indicate to you that I'm town.
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Post Post #967 (isolation #60) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:22 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 965, Eragon wrote:It doesn’t matter to me if you are lynched today or tommorow.
Okay. Vote yourself.
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Post Post #972 (isolation #61) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:23 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 969, Eragon wrote:CoA is now resorting to “vote yoursef” over any logical arguments
"Vote yourself" is a logical argument. If you don't care who gets lynched first, you should have no problem voting yourself. Where's the failure in reasoning?
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Post Post #976 (isolation #62) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:26 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 974, Eragon wrote:
In post 972, CultOfAthena wrote:
In post 969, Eragon wrote:CoA is now resorting to “vote yoursef” over any logical arguments
"Vote yourself" is a logical argument. If you don't care who gets lynched first, you should have no problem voting yourself. Where's the failure in reasoning?
The failure in reasoning is your failure to read the post where I say “I prefer if you get lynched”
But why? I thought you said before that it doesn't matter to you who gets lynched first between us.

Does it turn out that... you were actually lying? That it
does
actually matter to you? That you
would
prefer me being lynched before you?

Wow, what a shocker.
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Post Post #983 (isolation #63) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:29 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I never called your catchup towny. I simply had you as town at the start of Day 2. If you actually read my posts, you would also know that I had you as scum ever since Slaxx claimed.

But, that's neither here nor there. We can see who's truly flailing now that the chips are down.

Like I said, this is a good example. Scum pretend to be very nonchalant and not caring, but when it comes down to it you can see that they very much
do care
, but simply don't want to look like they do.
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Post Post #986 (isolation #64) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:31 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Jesus Christ, say something kitcat, I'm having trouble typing I'm trembling so much here.
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Post Post #992 (isolation #65) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:34 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 990, kitcat wrote:i'm thinking how bad i'd feel lynching town!you here, which is apparently a significant factor

i do think it's just you tho; i nearly voted you like three times
voting eragon feels wrong rn

and i hate getting pressured to vote; i like to think about things over like several irl days, which i know is a pain for everyone else but i like the time to come to a conclusion
I'm not pressuring you to vote. I've already said that I'm fully prepared to be here every day until deadline, as much as I dread the thought of talking to Eragon for days on end.

I just want you to say something.
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Post Post #995 (isolation #66) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:35 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

If you're still considering voting me I still very much want to hear from you exactly why you townread Eragon and scumread me.
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Post Post #1007 (isolation #67) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:49 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Jesus fucking christ.
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Post Post #1008 (isolation #68) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:50 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

That's hammer isn't it? Invis was already voting?
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Post Post #1018 (isolation #69) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:02 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 1014, kitcat wrote:holy shit i'm super indecisive rn

i think it's just coa but apparently feeling bad enough about mislynching you is making voting you like really hard rn

and i'm worried that you're playing on that

and i'm wondering if i would have actually voted you in lylo in the last game if you had left me alive (yes, probably)
I'm not trying to make you feel bad. What I want most from you is specific reasoning and some kind of case as to why you seem to be so convinced that Eragon is town.

Here's something for you to consider: you seem to believe that in this situation scum would be "defeated", and presumably that I displayed that in my inactivity before now. Consider that:
1. I just haven't logged in for the past few days to play in any game I'm in
2. If I were scum and actually didn't care about getting lynched (a legitimate scumtell for me), I would not be fighting this like I am
right now
.
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Post Post #1020 (isolation #70) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:03 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

It. Matters. To. Me.
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Post Post #1026 (isolation #71) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:10 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 1001, kitcat wrote:literally never voting your partner is a scumtell for you.
I really don't think it is. Again – please give me a little more credit. You seem to at the same time believe that I can be some kind of RC-level scum player that knows exactly how to manipulate you and is doing as such, and yet you also seem to hold the belief that I can be read off of newbie-level partner tells. It just doesn't make sense.
i think you're trying pretty hard rn to not get lynched (ie you feel survivalistic);
Yes, I am. It isn't a scumtell.
eragon isn't.
Sorry, you're plainly wrong and I am surprised that you can't see this.

I mean, even in just the last few posts he's proven
you
wrong with his own posting.
i don't know why you're just brushing this off really; the way he's approaching it feels really townie to me and i'm not sure why you're not seeing that
I've made it clear to you that I don't think that what you see as towny is actually town indicative at all. I've laid my reasoning for why I believe as such clearly. I would appreciate if you would respond to that.
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Post Post #1032 (isolation #72) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:15 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Are you doing this to get over your reservations about mislynching me or are you doing this because you think there's a chance that you could be wrong?
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Post Post #1036 (isolation #73) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:21 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

What? Manipulative?
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Post Post #1038 (isolation #74) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:22 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I was calling him on an obvious bluff to display how his supposed "non survivalism" was false.
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Post Post #1039 (isolation #75) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:23 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

You know... to illustrate a point?

I didn't expect him to do it nor was it meant to be a "you're scum so just vote yourself" or something. I'm not sure why you read it that way?
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Post Post #1041 (isolation #76) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:26 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Slaxx, who do you actually think is more likely?
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Post Post #1043 (isolation #77) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:27 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Kitcat, I want to get to the heart of the issue. You keep saying that I'm "ate"-ing, but that's never been my intention.
Why
do you townread Eragon?
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Post Post #1048 (isolation #78) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:33 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 1045, kitcat wrote:
In post 893, CultOfAthena wrote:I'm pretty confident Eragon is the last anyways so I'm certain town still wins even after my lynch, but obviously I should strive to avoid that.
found it finally
this is the bit that was bothering me ^^^^
it felt like you were doing the 'nonchanlant'-ness that you ascribe to scum trying not to be survivalistic
I mean. I was recognizing something that I consider to be true and which I don't think anybody disputes.

You'll see that when I actually start to get into the game and actually give it thought, how I actually feel starts to kick in literally a few minutes later in .

This feels like you're reaching. Like, very clearly I'm not doing the level 1 "yeah I really don't care" thing.
Even that quote
isn't "I don't care if I die or not", it's literally just my recognition of the facts.

Like, what are you saying here? Are you saying that my
true
feelings are this and that I've just been making up everything after, or...?
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Post Post #1049 (isolation #79) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:36 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

I have never been invested in a single scum game as much as I am invested in this game right now.
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Post Post #1055 (isolation #80) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:53 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 1050, kitcat wrote:his catchup was townie af
it was ridiculously nuanced and like original-thought-y about like every single post for like eight pages or whatever
Which "catchup" are you referring to?

I think you're probably also underestimating Eragon's scumgame.
his associatives with SA were bad, and i described why it hought that earlier today; moving off of SA when he set up a tvs thing for sa/pink ball but then not lynching sa when pink ball flipped
Yeah, they're really bad and they're
actually partner indicative
. The whole "I was set up specifically to scumread SA" thing is pretty bad alone, nevermind that he literally canvassed people to ask what they thought of it. To me, that's an attempt to test the waters and see if he needs to bus or not.
his reaction to eyes felt really townie
he also said he caught that slaxx had semi pr-slipped so why doesn't he nk him that night?
(substantiated by the doc emoji he posted around then-ish)
Come on, kitcat.

Actually look at . Look at the context. Both Slaxx and PB were joking about it. The far more likely scenario is that he was joining in on the joke and then, when the situation arose, retroactively said "oh I knew all along". (On another note, this could be why PB was killed N1.)
he's also fucked himself over tomorrow if he's scum here because he's literally never voting vizzy
In post 792, Eragon wrote:if you think im the best lynch for today, so be it.

I am confident enough in invisi being town that it doesnt matter to me which order you lynch in, as long as you lynch CoA next.
town
I've already made my point that I think scum in this situation basically
has
to take a position like that and, come tomorrow, go for the win regardless.

But here's the thing – I agree with you. It does seem likely that he can't win tomorrow. That doesn't change the likelihood that he's just scum right now.
In post 803, Eragon wrote:just please dont lynch invisi next.

if you choose to lynch me please just lynch CoA,

i am 100% confident in CoA being scum here, so i dont even care if im lynched.

just,

do.
not.
lynch.
invisibility.
tommorow.
like it's not just how un-survivalistic he is, it's more like he's approaching this from the angle of: just don't fuck it up after i've gone if you lynch me first - it's accpeting his lynch + trying to make sure we get it right after and htis just pervades hiw whole day3 posting
He's not accepting his lynch
. I don't know how I can argue this point more clearly. He isn't accepting his lynch and trying to make sure we get it right after, he is specifically trying to be alive until tomorrow.

Now, I'm trying to stay alive and lynch Eragon, which I believe ends the game. There's no pretense that that isn't what I'm doing. There
is
one with Eragon, which I very clearly called his bluff on.
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Post Post #1056 (isolation #81) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:56 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 1052, kitcat wrote:
In post 966, CultOfAthena wrote:
In post 960, kitcat wrote:coa you're really good scum

(i should have said that last game, sorry)
Not really. That game was a fluke. The fact that you're thinking this should indicate to you that I'm town.
why should this indicate you're town?
Because I'm not good at scum.

If you're feeling even slightly convinced by me. If you're feeling like my words might carry some truth to them, or that perhaps I'm presenting a convincing point. If you feel that you can tell that I very desperately
want to be alive
...

It's because I'm town.
In post 1053, kitcat wrote:for both of you i'm kinda not sure why you've mutually taken vizzy out of the lynch pool
or why either of you nks pink ball
I've been townreading him for a while now, it's nothing new.
In post 1054, kitcat wrote:
In post 449, Pink Ball wrote:@slaxx using your same metric:

Inv->Slaxx->Eragon-> /// kitcat->CoA->rooroo /// SA

Why do you have rooroo so up?

p-edit you already answered. I really think I can get a better read on rooroo on D2, but the way she's playing pings me. She could argue it's because of being an alt, but some things never change :cool:
seriously tho if you thought this was scum -> town why do you nk him there
Hmm...

Questions without answers, huh?
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Post Post #1057 (isolation #82) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:59 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Oh hey, would you look at that: I missed one more person who was joking about PRs and such back then:
In post 396, rooroo wrote:okay don't out me either
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Post Post #1059 (isolation #83) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:02 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

Wow, you absolutely need to check his previous games.

Anyways, talk to you tomorrow. (I would never be talking to anyone at 4 AM in a game if I were scum.)
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Post Post #1061 (isolation #84) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:09 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

In post 1060, kitcat wrote:i htought he said he didn't have any scumgames on ms
but i'll check his games tomorrow
He does.

It'll be enlightening.
i guess a lot of my paranoia rn stems from the last game where you talked me out of lynching you after the thing; i kinda want to check what you've said there in comparison to here
and yeah i don't see you being this invested in a scumgame honestly
Go ahead – you'll find it's nothing the same.
ok actually bouncing now, g'night!
Good night.

And this is weird to say, but thanks for giving me a game that I can actually feel invested in – something with actual tension, stakes and an outcome that I care about. (Obviously you're not doing it intentionally, but still.)
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Post Post #1070 (isolation #85) » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:01 am

Post by CultOfAthena »

I'm not scum.
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Post Post #1071 (isolation #86) » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:01 am

Post by CultOfAthena »

Maybe you'll read me correctly one day.

I really don't think it's difficult.
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Post Post #1072 (isolation #87) » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:06 am

Post by CultOfAthena »

So much for that tension and a game I was invested in.
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Post Post #1109 (isolation #88) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:57 pm

Post by CultOfAthena »

GG. Thanks for modding, Chibi.
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