Micro 844: Geriatric Half Mast Nightless [Endgame]

[Shoshin]

theslimer's probably town. If scum, I doubt he starts the game by needlessly attracting attention to himself.

[Shoshin]

u r a person 2 is town as well. I like how the game is going so far.

[Shoshin]

Not sure yet. Scum can't afford too many townreads on town in this setup so challenging them early is plausible play from scum. At the same time, the "???" isn't how I see scum going about that. Feels more like genuine confusion at how anyone could have a townread so quick. So if I had to guess, maybe town?

[Shoshin]

brassherald's town based on his paranoia that I'm buddying via early townreads.

I don't like Oka's posting. Lots of words to say nothing.

VOTE: Oka

[Shoshin]

Could you quote some words that say nothing?

[Shoshin]

u r a person 2 is town as well. I like how the game is going so far.

Shoshin could you please elaborate on why you townread U2 here?

I had just townread Slimer when U2 voted him, creating our first legit wagon. I think the action of building early wagons is pro-town, and I think it's a fairly reliable town tell when the wagoning vote comes onto a player (Slimer) who a townie (me) just townread.

Not sure yet. Scum can't afford too many townreads on town in this setup so challenging them early is plausible play from scum. At the same time, the "???" isn't how I see scum going about that. Feels more like genuine confusion at how anyone could have a townread so quick. So if I had to guess, maybe town?

brassherald's town based on his paranoia that I'm buddying via early townreads.

I'm not sure why you would bother suggesting that scum might be challenging your townreads, yet you townlean Aubrey for tone and townread Brass for paranoia after being the only players to challenge your townreads?

I don't have a read on Aubrey. I thought my qualifier "if I had to guess" made that clear?

Brass paranoia feels genuine because I don't think it's likely for scum to straight-up challenge a townblock this early right after I said that's what scum would do. I think scum Brass would have been a bit more self-consciously awkward about something like that.

[Shoshin]

Thanks! Has your read changed since this point? What do you make of him town blocking you and promptly changing the vote you initially townread him for? Does his sheeping bother you?

Still town. His initial response to my townread was very towny (asking my thoughts on Aubrey seemed like a genuine attempt to sort me) and the follow-up "town blocking" made sense as a trajectory. Changing votes is expected this early in the game. And sheeping doesn't bother me, no.

[Shoshin]

On another note: more votes on No Lunch please.

Why not Oka? What don't you like about NL?

[Shoshin]

I have a funny feeling Oka is town even though I can see a few aspects of his scum meta here.

What's the difference between Oka's town/scum meta?

[Shoshin]

Don't mind Cheeky, she suffers from the unfortunate condition of Mafia Alignment.

Talk to me about slimer?

Why is Cheeky scum?

Slimer isn't a Jester? That probably won't make sense to anyone but that's okay for now.

[Shoshin]

I dont have any reads. For me it's still the beginning of the game

Can you at least tell that NL's town? It's pretty obvious.

[Shoshin]

I'm never lynching Brass. And I'm pretty sure NL isn't lynching Brass either. So I'm pretty sure you need to give up on that mislynch, Maestro.

[Shoshin]

Maestro's town, Slimer.

[Shoshin]

Just how in the hell are you getting so many town reads by page 4?

The real question is why you aren't?

Brass town telled and town slipped. He's town.

Maestro's town because scum would have realized how Brass slipped.

NL's town because of the way he revisited/questioned my early townread on Slimer, plus scum wouldn't blatantly express their excitement over clearing Brass in the form of disappointment.

Cheeky's town because she's engaging the game with a level of drive that doesn't come from scum, plus I liked her line of questioning on me.

That leaves U2, Slimer, Oka, and you. The game feels mostly solved, really.

[Shoshin]

Okay I believe I may need to be more elaborate. Is anybody else having the hairs on the back of their neck standing up by the way Cheeky is talking about scum's incentive to play the LAMIST card while relentlessly LAMISTing?

If Cheeky's scum, why vote U2 here? Are you thinking it's Cheeky/Slimer? If so, who's the third?

I still think shoshin's handing out town reads like it's candy on Halloween is suspicious, which is why my vote has not changed.

I don't think you should keep scumreading me for things I regularly do as town.

[Shoshin]

{Shoshin, OkaPoka, theslimer3, Aubrey}
{brassherald}
{Maestro, no lunch, u r a person 2}

Why is Slimer/Oka/Aubrey town? And why is NL/U2 scum? And why aren't you giving any weight to the obvious town slips from Brass/Maestro? Everything about your reads feels off.

if there isn't scum between Cheeky and Shoshin I'll retire. handing out townreads everywhere in a game where 1/3 of the list is scum, is hilarious.

You might be right about Cheeky. Her townreads (other than me) are terrible.

I'm disappointed you lob me in with her. My reads look nothing like hers, and it's not scummy for me to townread players for towny behaviors, regardless of town/scum ratio. I'm especially disappointed that you're stoking paranoia about me in the current gamestate when I've already got some votes on me. If you let me get mislynched, you might want to consider retirement even if Cheeky flips scum.

[Shoshin]

Are you actually reading the game? When I stated Slimer was town and then voted U2 earlier you had no qualm, why are my reads surprising now? Slimer and Aubrey feel like they have no agenda, they're not trying to be townread. I've already discussed Oka, NL and my thoughts on the slip. I'm disappointed.

Are you reading the game? I guess you missed the post where I said all the scum are in the group of U2, Oka, Aubrey, and Slimer, meaning votes on U2 are okay, townreads on Slimer/Oka/Aubrey aren't.

I'm obviously struggling to understand how you've come to the reads you have, so why suddenly so guarded about your reasoning?

On Oka, you said he's playing similar to his scum meta by waffling & his reasoning seems contradictory, but he's town anyway because he wants to policy lynch, he's genuinely using the geriatric rules in a geriatric game, and he's giving independent thoughts that don't have any connection to actual scumhunting. Based on what you've said so far, why aren't you scumreading this slot, let alone townreading it?

On Slimer/Aubrey, what do you mean "no agenda"? That sounds like you're saying they aren't scummy, not that they're affirmatively town. I want to know why you're actively townreading them, not why they're null. Why are they townier than Brass/Maestro?

On U2, you've said nothing. Why is he scummier than NL/Slimer/Aubrey?

On NL, you seem to be suggesting he's scum because he's trying to avoid attention by intentionally ignoring questions/posts? Is there something else?

For fun let's say that I accept the slips at face value. My list then looks like this:

{Brassherald, OkaPoka, theslimer3, Aubrey, Maestro}
{Shoshin, no lunch, u r a person 2}

Is this why you're changing your tact now? Because I've nailed your other two buddies and you need to break up my town reads or you're effed?

What "tact" did I change? Why is Oka/Slimer/Aubrey townier than me?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Cheeky

[Shoshin]

U2, why are you townreading Cheeky despite her awful reads?

[Shoshin]

U2, why are you townreading Cheeky despite her awful reads?

How are awful reads scum indicative?

When I say "awful," I don't mean just "wrong," I mean it in the broader sense of "fake, contrived, unnatural, not coming from a town perspective."

I'm town reading cheeky for her early game engagement

For having locked herself into an exact solve of the game - seems like it would really limit options for scum!cheeky, as well as make her an obvious point of attention.
this one IS weird because I'm also scum reading her based on the perceived quality of her reads (awful, in your words) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm figuring it out

and because scum doesn't often go "rah rah team spirit!" at the start of a post where they say that in this particular setup LAMIST should be taken as a scum tell.

I think her awful reads far outweigh any minor towniness from "engagement" and putting forth a "solve" at this stage of the game. I'm surprised you don't feel the same? Lots of scum fake "engagement" or "solves" without any difficulty. If anything, Cheeky's confidence in her reads doesn't match the gamestate at all, which shows how unnatural they are.

[Shoshin]

I really want you to be town, U2. I like how you're approaching the game a lot. This is what's stopping me from townreading you:

Cheeky is killing it thus far. Strongest read right now is town!cheeky. I don't see an agenda outside of aggressively moving us out of rvs and scum hunting

I'm leaning town on Aubrey. I love his first two posts, and the thinking in his reads is fine.

Town lean on oka. Half sheep of cheeky, half me rereading their reasoning re PLs and softening on it

Besides the strong likelihood that there's scum in these reads, I don't like the word "love" in response to Aubrey's first two posts. It feels too strong a response, as well as inconsistent with only "leaning town." Can you speak to what was going through your head here?

I'm also a bit worried that you're partnered with Cheeky for a couple reasons that you can't really address because they have to do with larger patterns about how you two are playing around each other. They're also sort of unimportant until one of you flips scum.

This just made my skin crawl a bit. Like a scum player who thinks they've put up a good front, and it's not working in their favor. But I'm worried that i'm just at that point where anything she says comes from a scum space in my brain.

That's a pro-town worry to have. Why do you think I'm scum?

I think this is a good point and I aporeciate it because if I'm wrong about any of my scumreads, it's Shoshin. But her interactions with you and NL and her sudden why-the-fuck-are-you-surprised-at-my-reads turn on me look like the scum team is threatened and are trying to get good footing to lynch me. I think I could be wrong on her because I do think she would be egotistical enough to not want to work with me/think only her reads could be right and so its possible that she's irrationally resorted to calling me scum and distancing incase I am scum.

To be clear, I was trying to work with Cheeky by asking her a series of questions about her reads/reasoning. She's the one who chose not to work with me by voting me instead of responding. She still hasn't responded to my substantive questions about her reads, preferring instead to attack me as "egostistical" and "irrational."

[Shoshin]

I think this is a good point and I aporeciate it because if I'm wrong about any of my scumreads, it's Shoshin.

I get the sense that Cheeky voted me so that she'd have an excuse not to answer my questions about her reads, because why else would she vote me over U2 (who she was already voting) or NL?

[Shoshin]

I'm sad that my townreads scumread me.

[Shoshin]

I do not scumread Shoshin but she is a wild card. I think her conduct around the slip/early townreads is more consistent with a town mindset than CheekyTeeky's.

Assume I'm town for a second. How confident are you in scum Cheeky? Who are her partners?

[Shoshin]

What's your experience with brass, Cheeky?

[Shoshin]

Maestro, what's your read on Cheeky?

[Shoshin]

Aubrey, what's your read on Cheeky/NL?

[Shoshin]

U2 isn't smug at all. Not even close.

I really don't understand what's going through Cheeky's head. She says she signed up for the game to play with me, then proceeds to completely ignore me when I try engaging her, and then decides to gamethrow, all the while making things up that don't have any connection with reality (NL's meta, U2's smugness, etc.).

I can't see how her play ever comes from town. I also don't see why she plays this way as scum? Is she just crumbling under the pressure? I don't get it.

[Shoshin]

Cheeky's still making stuff up because Maestro didn't WK her.

I'm open to lynching Aubrey/Oka instead of Cheeky.

I'm never lynching Brass. I'll consider NL/U2 only if there's 4 players left.

[Shoshin]

I didn't say not Cheeky. In terms of who I prefer between Aubrey/Oka, it depends in part on Cheeky's flip. I'd say Oka if Cheeky's town, Aubrey if Cheeky's scum.

[Shoshin]

Brass, what are your concerns about me?

[Shoshin]

Town reads are too numerous, I don't remember loving the analysis.

I'd like to refer you to my town meta, then. I especially urge you to take a look at American Presidents since you modded the game, but also take a look at any other recent town games (TAZ, Fifth Fortnight, Mini Normal 2042, or even A Story Revisited).

In terms of analysis, I tend to say less than I'm actually thinking so if there's anything you don't understand, please ask. I'd also appreciate if you could reread as objectively as possible so that you don't let confirmation bias cloud your judgment.

[Shoshin]

Consider me voting Shoshin because I see no commitment to... anytihng basically

What are you talking about? I've provided clearer reads than anyone else in the game. I've said unequivocally that Brass/NL are town, that U2 shouldn't be lynched unless it's 4 players with Brass/NL, and that we should be lynching within the group of Cheeky/Oka/Aubrey. How is this a lack of commitment relative to you or anyone else in the game?

[Shoshin]

UNVOTE:

NL, U2, I'm doubting Maestro as town. Thoughts? I don't understand how town ever makes 258.

[Shoshin]

What are your reads, Aubrey?

[Shoshin]

I actually think Maestro is more likely to flip scum if Cheeky flips town.

[Shoshin]

If Cheeky's town, scum Maestro wants to let the lynch happen without getting flak for pushing it so he's happy to stay null on Cheeky while letting others take the fault.

If Cheeky's scum, scum Maestro wants to get some town credit from her lynch instead of sitting on the sidelines. There's no way scum Cheeky isn't getting bussed at this point because she's inevitably getting lynched in this game.

Also, by saying this, I'm probably screwing with the dynamics a little bit because scum are going to become less likely to bus after reading this. But that's okay at this point since we're only missing reactions from Oka/Slimer.

[Shoshin]

Oka, I still throw out lots of townreads as scum because it's my town meta but those reads are much more targeted towards a scum agenda (e.g. pocketing, survival, etc.).

If I were scum in this game, I'd never townread Brass because he's a wild card who can't be pocketed plus an easy mislynch among players who don't know how to read him (and it would have been easy to push a mislynch on him because he doesn't even know that I'm capable of reading him). The fact that I'm saying he shouldn't ever be lynched is strongly town indicative for me.

[Shoshin]

NL, the fact that our reads are aligning should tell you that I'm probably town here. Also, see the post above: I never locktown Brass in this setup if I'm scum. I think this game will go a lot better if you can townread me because we're close to solving it and it'll be really annoying if you end up mislynching me when we can easily win this by lynching outside the obvious townies (Brass, you, me, U2).

[Shoshin]

I'm also confused by Cheeky, as I said. I have no idea what to think, and I don't really care since I know we win this game as long as we don't lynch within my townreads.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Oka

[Shoshin]

Who said anything about tonereading?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Maestro

[Shoshin]

This related to the recent Jester Nightless? If not what does it mean?

Yes, lol.

[Shoshin]

The only way in which you give out townreads that early is tonereading shoshin.

None of my reads have anything to do with "tone." You need to break out that box you're in, stretch your mind a bit. My reads are based on predictions about what players would do as either alignment when confronted with this environment.

As an example, I townread Brass/NL in part because both would have been doing a lot more work as scum to pocket me (an action, not a "tone"). Why are you saying my reads are based on "tone" when they'er obviously based on predictions about likely behaviors?

I don't like this at all from you. It feels like you're trying to shake confidence in my reads without actually addressing their substantive content.

[Shoshin]

Why is Gamma town, Oka?

[Shoshin]

I just want to take a moment to admire NSG's ability to consistently get these page top vote counts, like nearly every single time. Nice work, NSG!

As a further aside from the game, I find it kind of amusing how some players tend to be super active as players yet inconsistently active as mods (RC comes to mind) while others are super active mods yet inconsistently active as players, like NSG. A curious observation to me.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Aubrey

I still think Oka's plausible scum with Maestro. Don't think it matters too much who we lynch between the top suspects of Aubrey, Oka, Gamma.

[Shoshin]

Any reads, Aubrey?

[Shoshin]

Let's get on with this game. Lynching Oka/Aubrey/Gamma should win the game. If not, lynch Slaxx, U2, NL, in that order.

[Shoshin]

If we're not lynching Aubrey, we lynch Oka. Don't overcomplicate this game, please.

[Shoshin]

Slaxx, why is Oka town?