Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Shoshin]

Nancy, I have some questions for you. You might have answered them already but I'd like you to answer all of these questions again in a single post so that I can actually follow what you're saying instead of seeing lots of incomplete thoughts scattered across multiple posts in a really disorganized way.

1. On N1, what exactly were you told about a witch? Don't leave any details out. Go back to the PM and tell us exactly what Krazy told you.

2. Why did you roleblock the worst on N1? What were your reads at this time? Why didn't you roleblock someone like Performer or Koki?

3. Why did you roleblock Nauci on N2? Why was she your top scumread? What were your reads at this time?

4. Why would you let A50 (who says he hasn't even read the game) roleblock me when you just saw Koki hammered by Key/Performer? How could you possibly think I was most likely to flip scum there? And either way, why would you let A50 decide this when he had no clue about the game?

5. Why was A50 strongly arguing against the existence of third party when he should have known better based on your knowledge of a witch? If you saw someone do this, would you scumread them for it?

6. Why did you mislead us all with your claim by pretending that your flavor wasn't the character you were informed about?

7. Why do you keep overreacting to people scumreading you when you have been misleading us all game about your claim, never said anything about the witch until now, and all the while have been roleblocking the three obvious townies instead of the obvious scum targets?

8. Why were you so strongly townreading Mitillos earlier in the game?

[Shoshin]

Varsoon, why did you say that Zerg weren't using bullets when you supposedly had knowledge of a Zerg Duran (i.e. someone capable of using bullets)?

[Shoshin]

No, I was “fishing” for information about Starcraft. Until you and Nauci started talking about infested terrans, et al, I actually though my informed flavour claim, was NAI. That’s why I was kind of freaking out about it yesterday, when I did some more reading and it dawned on me, that my informed flavour claim, could possibly be scum. Now, I realized that I’m actually informed of 2 flavours in the game. One of them is obviously terran/town and the other has to be scum but what form? I have no clue and can there be more then one type of scum version and how does which version impact the game?

I still don't see how this ever squares with Nancy's claim. Nor do I understand why Nancy's overreacting to anyone who has an issue with the obvious inconsistency here. the worst, what's your thoughts on this?

[Shoshin]

Self notes: we have a vig, pgo,

a cop

, X # of informed, bp, scum that kill, sk that kill, witch/survivor, a VT, gunsmith.

This might have been a slip that Performer is the witch? Or how else would he know there was a cop? It would also make sense that third party has bulletproof.

[Shoshin]

I strongly disagree with the idea that Mitillos is third party.

[Shoshin]

99%.

I still want answers from Nancy to my questions.

[Shoshin]

Mitillos is group scum because:

1. His decision to fake a guilty result on Nauci doesn't come from third party unless Nauci is group scum.

2. His "slip" looks like he was talking to someone other than Krazy, which means he isn't playing this game alone. It's also likely that he had multiple fake claims to choose from, which seems more likely for group scum than third party.

[Shoshin]

It wouldn't be good if I claim. Please trust me on this. As a reference, take a look at NSG's play in RC's recent game with respect to not-claiming when everyone else has claimed.

[Shoshin]

I should not be blocked tonight. If one of you blocks me, I'm taking it as a scum claim.

[Shoshin]

Why do you think Mitillos is the witch?

[Shoshin]

I think it would be very helpful if Nauci cops between Nancy/Varsoon instead of Key/Performer.

[Shoshin]

I really can't wait to lynch Performer. It's actually shocking my conscience at a deep level that he's actually defending his hammer on Koki.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon's most likely witch if group scum is Mitillos/Key/Performer.

[Shoshin]

This game is actually quite winnable. Please don't give up hope. There's multiple paths to victory that you all aren't thinking about.

[Shoshin]

Absolutely not.

[Shoshin]

We don't need to roleblock correctly, though it would obviously help. There's so many potential variations of how we win. Remember, you don't know my role. And neither do mafia.

At a basic level, we should win if we lynch three mafia in a row, because that would take us to LYLO against solo scum. I find it unlikely that solo scum wins at 3-way LYLO.

[Shoshin]

Mitillos/Key is the start. Their flps should confirm one of Nancy/Varsoon as town or scum. And from there, we've got at least 50% chance of lynching the last mafia. So despite all the negativity around here, I actually think our chances of winning are higher than 50%.

Varsoon already said he'd vote Mitillos, so that's not a problem. We have the votes for a lynch on mafia today.

[Shoshin]

@Mitillos
Are you the witch?
There are 3 Zerg left, we can win together.
If you don't out yourself, you'll probably be lynched.

lol...

[Shoshin]

Key's desperation makes me think we're going to win this.

[Shoshin]

Key's desperation makes me think we're going to win this.

Why?

He's trying to make us think that Mitillos is the witch, which means he knows that we're going to win if we lynch Mitillos today. I'm guessing that means that flipping Mitillos is going to confirm one of Nancy/Varsoon as town. Notice that Key's post came right after I pointed that possibility out.

[Shoshin]

Nancy, get over yourself. Your slot has done some fucked up things this game to the point where you need to be a lot more understanding of the fact that nobody is townreading you in the way you imagine they should.

If you want to get into this after the game, that's fine. But it's a totally irrelevant conversation to solving this game so I'm not going to address all the problems with your play at this time.

[Shoshin]

Nancy, not townreading you isn't "unwarranted bullshit," it's how everyone in this game feels about you. This is why I'm not townreading you:

1) You've spent large portions of this game needlessly creating conflict.

2) On D2, you strongly townread Mitillos/Key when I wanted to lynch them. You made Key's lynch impossible, which in turn directly led to the lynching of Mew (as opposed to Key).

3) You roleblocked the three most obvious townies in the game: the worst, Nauci, and me. According to you, they were your top scumreads.

4) Your claim isn't consistent with your play earlier in the game. You said that your informed role information wasn't your flavor when responding to Varsoon, but it turns out that wasn't true. You said that your informed role information had to do with a character who wasn't the "original," but when A50 claimed, he just said that you knew there was "another Kerrigan," nothing about "original" or a character different from yours.

5) A50 came into this day phase strongly townreading Mitillos/Key while pushing a lynch on obvious town, while completely ignoring the quickhammer on Koki. Mitillos/Key are scum, so that looks pretty bad.

Given all this, how can you expect us to townread you? You need to get over the fact that you are not coming across as towny. If you're actually town and this bothers you, then maybe you should ask yourself why you're not coming across as towny to anyone rather than immediately getting defensive and attacking me for struggling to make sense of your behaviors.

[Shoshin]

I find it insane that we're not powerlynching Keyser right now but I see where you're coming from Shoshin. Tell me where my vote needs to go.

If Mitillos were the witch, mafia would be lynching him, not asking him to win together. So it's guaranteed that Mitillos is mafia with Key, as we've been saying. I prefer lynching Mitillos first, if only because Key seems so scared of his flip.

[Shoshin]

Just to be clear, I never intended to lynch Koki, only to get a claim, and I don't consider his mislynch my fault. Nor do I consider Mew's mislynch a particular failing of mine (he was a compromise lynch for me when I wanted to lynch Mitillos; he wasn't someone I pushed or cared about lynching beyond knowing he was part of my poe and strongly suspected by my top townreads). I admit error on lynching NM. That one sucked to be part of and I will learn what I can from it for future games.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Mitillos

[Shoshin]

Please vote Mitillos, the worst. Then let's wait to see if Performer is willing to hammer him. Do not hammer, Nauci.

[Shoshin]

Who are Key's partners?

[Shoshin]

Let's test if Key is town.

VOTE: Performer

[Shoshin]

If Key's town, he'll vote Performer with us.

[Shoshin]

Think big picture, the worst. I'm not ruling out the possibilitythat Key's town because this game is fucked as it is. All I know is that I'm happy to give Key an opportunity to prove himself town by helping us lynch Performer. It's better than the alternative, don't you think?

[Shoshin]

the worst, do you trust me?

[Shoshin]

Please just trust me, the worst. I will claim if I absolutely have to (don't make the mistake of voting me, you saw what happened with Koki) - but ideally, think how valuable certain roles could be if not talked about and then just assume I have something like that.

[Shoshin]

I do have a way to bring us to a win if you can stop a night kill.

[Shoshin]

Key, who are the scum if not Performer?

[Shoshin]

I know how you feel, the worst. We're in a shitty situation. But keep this in mind: this game is still going, which means we still have a chance. Your only option is to trust me.

[Shoshin]

There's so many possibilities. Don't think too hard about my role.

In terms of who you block, if the scum is Key/Performer/Nancy, then I'd suggest blocking Nancy. We'll know if it's them three if they prevent Performer's lynch together.

Personally, I'm still holding out hope that Key is town who helps us lynch Performer. There's actually a possibility that Key is town. Something Mitillos said makes me think that Mitillos was informed about something that actually clears Key. But it doesn't really matter too much, it'll become clear today based on who makes Performer's lynch impossible and who votes him.

[Shoshin]

That seems unlikely. Performer hammered town twice. The Koki hammer in particular doesn't come from town. There's just no way he's town.

[Shoshin]

Let's see if the mafia force a no lynch. If they do, they'll lose. They just don't know it yet.

[Shoshin]

If I have to claim to avoid getting lynched, I will. You will then understand why we have a chance. Otherwise, I need you to trust me.

I think there's two possible outcomes today. Either scum bus Performer, in which case the poe is unclear. Or scum force a no lynch, in which case I know who they all are and they lose.

[Shoshin]

Keys/Nancy/Varsoon?

Yeah, for sure. Performer/Nancy/Varsoon is plausible. Performer/Key/Nancy is plausible. Performer/Key/Varsoon is plausible.

[Shoshin]

what has you locktown on me?

If you're scum, this game is over. I've already accepted that fact.

[Shoshin]

I'll admit that I had a moment of paranoia about you when Mitillos flipped. It's almost like you knew he was going to flip witch, which felt weird to me. But I just don't feel like dealing with that possibility at the moment. I also wouldn't hate losing this game to you.

Are you scum? If so, you can safely reveal that now and push your no lynch with your partners.

[Shoshin]

Okay, good. Vote Performer?

[Shoshin]

We still need to get information from Varsoon/Nancy before this day ends.

[Shoshin]

the worst, Maybe block Nancy tonight to make sure my role goes through. It's more important than stopping night kill.

[Shoshin]

Did you block me the worst? WTF happened?

[Shoshin]

It wasn't me. My role failed. I don't know why.

Give me a second to figure this out.

Wow, the worst you blocked me. WTF.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Shoshin Zerg nk had to be Shoshin. I can't believe I fell for a plan to turn things around when scum probably already controlled the vote.

This is unbelievable. I'm never scum here, the worst. You should know this.

[Shoshin]

yeah, think about it the worst. I'm the only reason we even made it past yesterday and got PErfoermr lynched. I'm not scum. I was blocked. why teh fuck was I blocked?

[Shoshin]

I did NOT shoot anyone. Remove your vote!!

[Shoshin]

This is ridiculous, the worst.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: the worst

[Shoshin]

Why the fuck would you vote me?

I'm the ONLY reason we survived yesterday...

UNVOTE:

[Shoshin]

I did NOT shoot anyone. I was BLOCKED. Somehow. I don't know why the fuck I was blocked.

[Shoshin]

It's NOT a scum gambit. I'm not scum. WTF.

[Shoshin]

I'm NEVER scum here, the worst.

Think about it.

Key/Performer is scum. There were three scum yesterday. The ONLY reason this game continued is because of my role, which was blocked last night. Luckily I can still use it tonight.

[Shoshin]

We have to lynch Key today.

[Shoshin]

Nancy died.

[Shoshin]

Do we know how roleblocker resolves relative to the kill? Does she block prior to kill, so even if she dies, the player is blocked?

If so, let's assume for a second that Nancy's block went through on Varsoon. That means the worst is scum, 100%.

[Shoshin]

Or scum have a bus driver or redirector that resolves prior to the worst's block.

[Shoshin]

Lynch Key, then. He's scum.

VOTE: Key

Let me prove my role tonight.

[Shoshin]

There's no way I'm scum here. If I were scum, I could have just forced a no lynch on D5 with my buddies. I'm town with a role that makes it possible for town to still pull out the win.

I was blocked. My role failed. How many times do I need to say this?

[Shoshin]

That's the nature of mafia. Either you were redirected or something else happened that we don't understand.

I'm not scum. And you know I'm not.

I did NOT shoot Nancy. Why the fuck would I do that? Think about it, the worst.

[Shoshin]

Once again, my role results were that NANCY was TARGETED by the ZERG kill.
If that helps anything?

Nancy was targeted by ZERG.

To be clear.

I am NOT part of the ZERG faction. If I were, the game would have been over yesterday.

[Shoshin]

either like.. Varsoon is a mafia strongman or there's a mafia nexus? un which case town had a fucking ridiculous amount of power, or you're scum.

From your perspective, the mafia has to be Key/Varsoon.

From my perspective, it's Key and one of you/Varsoon.

It's that simple, the worst.

It's not me. If I were mafia, the game would have ended yesterday.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon, if you're town, then it's the worst and Key. This should be obvious from your perspective, since I'm literally the ONLY reason we are still in this game.

[Shoshin]

Why the fuck would the worst ever vote me over Key here? I'm at a loss to understand what the hell he's thinking.

[Shoshin]

We should lynch Key today.

Key is guaranteed scum.

[Shoshin]

If Varsoon was blocked, how come he got information tonight? Can his role not be blocked?

[Shoshin]

There's two possibilities.

1. Key/Varsoon

If it's this, one of them had some sort of redirection role to block me.

2. Key/theworst

If it's this, the worst blocked me last night.

Either way, Key is scum. We lynch him today.

[Shoshin]

the worst, remove your vote. WTF dude. If you're town, you're throwing.

[Shoshin]

Nice, Varsoon is town. It's the worst and Key.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon, if you're town, you win with me.

We can win this if we lynch Key or the worst or no lynch.

[Shoshin]

Then fucking vote Key, the worst. WTF are you doing?

[Shoshin]

Stop throwing.

My dear god.

[Shoshin]

If I were mafia, this game would have been over on D5. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU THE WORST?

[Shoshin]

If the mafia is me/Performer/Key, we force a no lynch on D5 and win the game. Town can't stop us. Why the fuck would we randomly lynch Performer there?

[Shoshin]

Like, holy shit the worst remove your vote if you're town.

[Shoshin]

the worst needs to remove his vote. He's leaving this open for scum to hammer me.

[Shoshin]

the worst is claiming scum, okay.

There's still hope in this game.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon, let me get my claim for you. I'm not what the worst says.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon, I'm a Ghost. I have a 1-shot NUKE. It allows me to kill 2 players in a single night.

I'm town.

the worst is trying to gambit a win here because he knows town wins this if we no lynch.

Please trust me, Varsoon. It's your only chance to win this and we WILL win this. I promise you. And we can be friends and talk about this crazy game for the rest of our lives.

[Shoshin]

I admit I got totally suckered by the worst. Strong performacne by him as scum. I'm actually pretty impressed.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: no lynch

[Shoshin]

Fuck this game.

Varsoon, we can actually win this. Please don't buy into the worst's crap.

[Shoshin]

We can't lynch Key. We can no lynch and I can nuke the worst and Key.

[Shoshin]

I think the worst is out of roleblocks tonight so that's why. he must actually be non-consecutive night.

[Shoshin]

Wow this game.

I voted fast night last night.

[Shoshin]

WTF.

[Shoshin]

Ugh, so lame.

[Shoshin]

Fuck.

[Shoshin]

I had you all dead. So sad. A beautiful NUKE. That you ruined.

[Shoshin]

Dam. So close. I hate being scum.

GG the worst. You played really well.

[Shoshin]

I made a few key mistakes that lost me this game. Never in my life did I anticipate that Mitillos would flip third party or that he'd have some weird suicidal winning role. Massive error on my part. Second error, not realizing the worst was scum after he kept saying Mitillos was third party. That was a slip imo the worst - I actually thought about you being scum as a result but just shrugged it off, thinking it wouldn't matter. Two big errors on my part.

[Shoshin]

I'm scared I'll never be able to get strongly townread again after this. I hope that doesn't happen to me. I really enjoyed being townread easily.

[Shoshin]

Yeah, Mitillos really threw this game off for me. I think I win this game if Mitillos hadn't suicided. I was ready to lynch Key/Performer before Mitillos, which basically guarnatees I win the game I think. I should have been smarter about that lynch. Really big mistake on my part.

[Shoshin]

Claiming at 8p would have been a mistake for you, the worst. You would have lost almost for sure.

[Shoshin]

Dam, so close. I'm sad I lost but glad it was a competitive game to the end. I never want to be scum again. I hate being Evil.

Also, whoever questioned my early townreading strategy was 100% right to do so. In my PM with Krazy I said that was my strategy before even doing it - just townread lots of players in hopes they'd townread me too, lol...

[Shoshin]

I nommed you for best third party off this. I hope that's not an insult to your towngame (which is also sensational) but.. the feeling when I saw us get a "third party arsonist" result on your rolecop is not a feeling I've had before in mafia.

That's nice of you but I lost. I made a big mistake with Mitillos. Could have won this with game better play imo. Lessons for the future.

[Shoshin]

Shit, you should be nommed for best scum the worst. Very impressive play imo. I had moments of paranoia of course but I genuinely thought you were town this game until the Mitillos thing.

[Shoshin]

I made a few key mistakes that lost me this game. Never in my life did I anticipate that Mitillos would flip third party or that he'd have some weird suicidal winning role. Massive error on my part. Second error, not realizing the worst was scum after he kept saying Mitillos was third party. That was a slip imo the worst - I actually thought about you being scum as a result but just shrugged it off, thinking it wouldn't matter. Two big errors on my part.

You forgot, being shockingly incapable of realizing I was obvtown by my play wrt to NM/Xtoxm/Kokichi.

If you honestly think scum!me, would ever in a gazillion trillion years, ever try to stop their mislynches, you’re nuts.

You were super obvious town. It was kinda hilarious actually.

[Shoshin]

Oh, just remembered. I actually was onto the worst in the early game.

From my PT (which I think is being released):

1. the worst feels more diplomatic than usual (e.g. defending Varsoon), giving out more early townreads than usual, and emulating his town meta in ways that he's prone to do as scum (e.g. Nancy's catch). I think it's potential material to lead a lynch on him later, regardless of his alignment.

I guess I should have remembered this earlier.

[Shoshin]

Oh, another thing. I didn't use Krazy's fake claim. At the end there, I just googled "Starcraft Nuke Ability," quickly found the Ghost, and claimed it. It was actually a really good fake claim for me. Why didn't you give me this, Krazy?

[Shoshin]

I'm not sure if it's scum sided. I think more than scum sided it's just very volatile (i.e. could go either direction very quickly). Different set of night events could have led to multiple scum deaths very early on. I think luck played a large role in this game, which makes me want to play less role based games in the future. Going to be looking for more vanilla games for the next few I play.

[Shoshin]

I wasn't playing pro-town. I spent the early parts of the game trying to douse townies.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin I had early (albeit very very small) suspicions of you i didn’t voice because I thought there was a 0% chance you’d make it to lylo without me given my role

My favorite part of this game was when you said to lynch yourself over me.

[Shoshin]

I was genuinely sad to see you die, Irrelephant. I actually doused you on N1, thinking you would live to LYLO and I'd be able to NUKE you. LOL.

[Shoshin]

I was bulletproof.

[Shoshin]

Maybe one day we can all be scum together? I hate being scum but that would be a team I'd enjoy playing with a lot.

[Shoshin]

I too was devastated to roll scum. I think I hate third party even more than mafia. So lonely.

[Shoshin]

I was genuinely sad to see you die, Irrelephant. I actually doused you on N1, thinking you would live to LYLO and I'd be able to NUKE you. LOL.

I'm sad Irrelephant's dead.

Who would Irrelephant want to lynch if still alive?

Irrelephant would have rather been lynched then let me be lynched... so why would I ever kill him as scum? If I were scum playing the way I am (and I wish I could play scum like this), I take Irrelephant with me to 3-way LYLO because that wins me the game.

Irrelephant's death should confirm me in Nancy's eyes, not only because Irrelephant knows me better than anyone else on this site and has a flawless record of reading me, but mainly because Nancy seems to be giving lots of weight to what dead townies thought about the game.

Nancy, why doesn't Irrelephant's death confirm me as town in your eyes?

Well, it was a good argument for why I was town, I thought.

[Shoshin]

I think it'd be cool if we got most these players together again for one of those vanilla/goon games with no third party or crazy roles.

[Shoshin]

Personally, I think Koki misplayed that situation quite badly. He should have claimed immediately as he promised to do.

[Shoshin]

I like NM's style of play, personally. I think the super bare players like him are very easy to read most of the time, which is fun when you're town, and they're super easy to mislynch when you're scum, which is fun when you're scum. And plus, NM always makes me laugh and his reads are sometimes good.