Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[Keyser Söze]

@TW
That’s a good read

I’m gonna read through Dr J’s ISO one more time.


Read through Volxen’s and it was quite ‘cold’ but consistent body of contributions. There is some confidence there too, which is very different from WW-scum-Volxen.

[Keyser Söze]

That flip means everything, great work town.

[Keyser Söze]

The lynch is also a testament to Relly’s town-game too which is formidable.

[Keyser Söze]

Today I’m gonna be re-reading you and Labby initially.


I feel Relly was trying to paint you as his partner yesterday through anti-distancing...

I’m not concerned about sending someone to heaven right now.

[Keyser Söze]

Your case on Relly was very direct, articulate and powerful.

I need to find out if this was a bus to win the win, or town-Eragon on fire (I think the latter atm).

[Keyser Söze]

Today I’m gonna be re-reading you and Labby initially.


I feel Relly was trying to paint you as his partner yesterday through anti-distancing...

I’m not concerned about sending someone to heaven right now.

anti-distancing?

he was pretty damn "sure" i was scum the entire game

Yeah in the classic sense scum always will push their scum read to distance.
So Relly was trying to bluff us, knowing we’d think that.

[Keyser Söze]

I agree that we shouldn’t be self-voting/wagoning here.

It simply gives me Dr J vibes. I rather the whys and how’s be presented by each player.

[Keyser Söze]

Updated:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know why this is here but I want to see it in my ISO:

Creature

(5) -

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

, volxen, Ausuka, the worst,

Irrelephant

Keyser

(2) - LabRat01,

Creature

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

(1) - Eragon
Eragon (1) -

Keyser Söze

Not Voting -

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

(5) -

Keyser Söze

, volxen, Ausuka,

Irrelephant

,

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

volxen (1) - the worst
Not Voting - LabRat01, Eragon

Irrelephant

(4) - Eragon, the worst, volxen, LabRat01
Eragon (1) - Irrelephant
Not Voting - Ausuka,

Keyser Söze

[Keyser Söze]

fyi high key protown to self vote @ l-1
L-1'd wolf is an instant win so

I'm unlikely to vote today again.

[Keyser Söze]

Off wagon wolf is usually Eragon

I have a gut feeling I shouldn't trust Eragon, but then I look at all the reasons I've posted why I town read him.
Please can we look at him one more time.

[Keyser Söze]

ily2

[Keyser Söze]

I just skimmed eragon's ISO

Someone else said they saw a strong start. I didn't see that, all I saw was basically a lot of fluff there. Without knowing any meta of him I can't really draw substantial conclusions as to his alignment from that. I like the tone of his posts, but that's about it. I also noticed in his post on creatures iso, there was a lot of IIOA. I think town will tend to do that actually day 1, since it's about all the scumhunting they can do at that period. Wheras scum, especially newscum doesn't have to scumhunt with the benefit of foreknowledge so they will probably just fluff around not doing much - at least, that's what I did end up doing in my other two games. When you see someone posting a case with IIOA maybe later on that's more scummy imo. Basically what I'm saying, IIOA at this stage would be evident of genuine effort which I think scum probably won't do at that stage

I'm putting that down as slight town based on that

Thoughts...

[Keyser Söze]

Also, quick readslist:
{DrJ}
{Volxen, Eragon}
{Irrel, Ausuka, TW}
{} - Null
{Lab(?), Soze(?)}
{Creature}
{}

Isn't it said 'always keep your teammate around null'?

[Keyser Söze]

Can anyone please tell me if any of my reasons below to town read Eragon are bulls**t, reachy or unsupported:

Spoiler:

I've played with scum-Eragon before, and in that game it was evident he knew who were town, who were scum, and built strong reads and certain associations off of it (

even trying to connect me to his scum partner, to misslynch me. In that game, I incorrectly read his behaviour as town-play via WIFOM.

)

However, in this game, he doesn't show that same unnerving/suspicious conviction. He simply doesn't know who is who, and who to trust. Even with his D1 reads and town case on Creature he was proud of he was convinced/bullied to ignore it and

wander alone in a wilderness of frustration and confusion

instead, leading into today.





It is

Eragon's very search for truth

this game why I am kinda banking on him being town here, here is why:

Chapter 1: the read that best reveals town!Eragon

We have to back to the beginning.

i do have a gut TR on you through skim, but its nothing strong and i know i shouldn't rush a read on any of you lmao, and i dont have time to dive rn

Here we see Eragon express a gentle tentative take on players he knows. No chainsaw, no extreme read and no dramatic buddy attempt. Eragon is here to scumhunt and not scumgambit.

Then we have Eragon's town-case on Creature. It demonstrates all the tells of a townie naturally coming to a read:
- the look for tonal / naturalness over content (I always believe scum just can't help but reach for the low hanging fruit, and bite on the playstyle that just doesn't fit in to town site-meta. I have been a victim of this a lot on mafiascum.)
- expresses just enough town paranoia on Creature bestowing a town read on their slot's single RVS post, and demonstrates towny affection: to be fond of irrational posts).
- Eragon is self reflective on the strength of their own read and observation
- identifies with Creature's position of being natural and not forcing out reads (see Eragon is looking past Creature's unconventional behaviour and seeing town motivation. THAT is the balance and discernment you need to judge a player like Creature who will never power-town.)
- Eragon consistently keeps measuring up town motivation vs scum motivation
- Eragon correctly identifies Creature's fluff as NAI.
- Eragon realises Creature is being consistent.
- Eragon exercising inner turmoil: Eragon can understand Creature's frustration but not his conclusion, here is Eragon reaching out hoping to understand Creature's perspective. Thus, Eragon accepts even though Creature's actions cannot be explained from their perspective ('the bad stuff' at the time), this does not overpower the genuine town pings he has felt ('the good stuff', as explanations can always be added later). Eragon had every chance to jump ship here, but this natural read feels real.
- Eragon didn't give into the propaganda saying Creature was lurking. Eragon correctly identified he was actually one of the highest posters.
- Eragon isn't nose-diving into a strong town read or a strong scum read, they are exploring each side of the coin.

This is Eragon making a step-by-step solve of Creature's alignment. It doesn't feel like he's started with a read first and worked backwards. This natural flow of the ISO dive doesn't feel agenda-driven: Creature HAS NOT presented a

'Creature is town, and those scum reading him are scum'

case. Eragon has looked underneath the rocks, beneath the sea, through the vines and long grass. Eragon has scrutinised both sides of Creature to come to his read. Eragon's whole approach on Creature

drips with town

.

[

We will return to how Eragon's town case on Creature was discredited on D1 tomorrow

].

'Chapter 2: Eragon is genuinely weirded out by me', follows....

Few further thoughts on Eragon...

i think im confident enough calling TW/Keyser TvS, never SvS, and if they are both TvT i am fucking up somewhere, so i think thats good for me.

I think Eragon's association theory regarding me and TW was rational on D2. If I were to look from the outside in, there is nothing reachy about that conclusion given mine and Ducky's intense 12 round bout.

Who is the only person(other than maybe keyser?) That correctly read creature
Who actually MADE A CASE on volxen being town that’s not “Oh ThEiR fIrSt FiVe PoStS mAkE tHeM oBv ToWn On MeTa”
Who has been reconsidering reads
Who has 40 more posts than you and joined at the end of D1
Who has acually been in thread for the majority of time active?

Self-commendation: Eragon sharing a list of all the positive/pro-town play he thinks he deserves credit for. This righteous indignation expressed towards Relly is pretty believeable as coming from town!Eragon. This is also 1 post of 2 that Eragon kills probable-scum!Irrelephant.

im akshully very confident in an Irrel!scum here.
they do not have the same form of transparant towni-ness that they were fond of in WW.
Like, did anyone ever even scumread them in WW?
they were extremly obvious through thoughts, reads, wagons, etc... and even from a scum perspective i knew that was always going to be town

Death by meta: Post 2 of 2 of Eragon killing Irrelephant. I can't help but agree with Eragon's observations here.

@TW, i know you have said you can't see yourself being TvT, but is it possible to re-revaluate? When you feel up to it of course.

@keyser, same question to you.

The peace maker: Interesting... Eragon was a strong advocate of there being one scum in me and TW on D2. But here is Eragon now trying to encourage TW and I to re-evaluate our stances on eachother. (

There is possible TW-Eragon scum connection here, but I don't scum-read either slot, so that association is a red-herring

) I do personally like this change of read from Eragon, as the same damn thing was going through my head early D3 after Dr J's flip.



Bottom line:

I'm finding it really hard trying to see Eragon's read development as manufactured/scum motivated.

The conclusions they've expressed all make sense. Please can Eragon just be town here. Otherwise, f**k this game.

RE: Eragon - I did like some of the meta points he raised (can you personally see a difference in your energy/WIM/game solving pointedness between this game our previous games together?)

[Keyser Söze]

[Ok, I understand the risk of me hammering as last-wolf.]
VOTE: Keyser

[Keyser Söze]

[Ok, I understand the risk of me hammering as last-wolf.]
VOTE: Keyser

Can you please unvote though TW.

[Keyser Söze]

but keys... who's teh scumz

I'm working on it.

I'm trying to reset all my reads today and work from there...

[Keyser Söze]

thing is in a vacuum I can townread everyone alive rn but assuming we are indeedy TvT there's 2 lynches left

Yes, I just tried to put together a D3 readslist, but after a few revisions I had pretty much everyone on the same line

I want to scrutinize every player and read I have (starting with Eragon and LabRat).

[Keyser Söze]

No flashwagon.

Naughty Ducky naughty

[Keyser Söze]

Ausuka - thoughts about Eragon? Have you filed them under town..? Or Open to investigation?

[Keyser Söze]

WIFOM: I can’t help but like Volxen forcefully pushing the Dr J lynch with me on D2.

It felt like we had solved the game, and wanted to foil the scum agenda of voting Volxen into heaven instead of Dr J.

He repeatedly asked players to unvote him and to vote for Dr J.



The same way you believe I haven’t got the balls to pull off that gambit, of extreme anti-distancing, do you think scum-Volxen is able to pull it off?

Volxen’s reaction / treatment / concern of the town reads that have been bestowed upon him feels genuine too. I.e Comparing Relly’s trajectory vs my developing read on Volxen.


True or False?

[Keyser Söze]

Well.. scum do have daychat... and Relly and Dr J can still talk to the last scum... correct?

[Keyser Söze]

Apart from the ‘Relly is coaching Volxen’ theory - Volxen’s ISO is good though yes?

[Keyser Söze]

Volxy who's the wolf? we have two lynches left

I am interested to see where Volx goes with this though.

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser, I think we should Eragon to Heaven on day 4, if you are OK with that. I think you and I should stick around to endgame.

I totally bought this on D2.

[Keyser Söze]

Why can't town!TW come up with any other explanation besides "this is scum!Volxen being coached by Irrelephant?"

I do agree here with Volx - you’ve presented many reasons why Volx is town on D1-D3, but is all that now outweighed by your ‘coached by Irrellephant’ theory?


Perhaps go through each post you gave them town points...

[Keyser Söze]

Everyone is coming under scrutiny today. Including me.

[Keyser Söze]

What was happening with LabRat btw?

[Keyser Söze]

Did she replace out?

[Keyser Söze]

TOWN-ALIGNED TEAM ASSEMBLE

[Keyser Söze]

Will be posting tomorrow guys and dolls x

[Keyser Söze]

Yeah, I didn't like Volxen's vote there on TW.
Volxen should be voting in:

"At the moment I am convinced that {Keyser, Eragon} are town"

This is no time to act in pride and prove a point to a player you're not even hard town reading... it's reckless...


Scum only need one more player in heaven, correct?

[Keyser Söze]

I wanted to actually re-read TW next...

I know we keep saying 'he's out his scum-range', but we/I need to make sure of that today (if I get the martyr kill, I want to rid all my paranoia today).

[Keyser Söze]

Right now: me or TW to heaven today. scum-TW has won the game either way. Town-TW should feel the same about me right now too (?)

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry not even completed half of my heaven phase to do list.

[Keyser Söze]

I don’t want you L-1 with your vote free.

Please could you self vote too.

[Keyser Söze]

I changed my mind.

I want to go to heaven today.

[Keyser Söze]

I would like to hear LabRats thoughts on me and you in the next 12 hours hopefully too.


@TW - describe your interactions with Relly and Dr J on D1...

[Keyser Söze]

I strongly want to go to heaven today now (which in turn, means I don’t want TW in heaven THIS heaven phase).

[Keyser Söze]

Send me to heaven this phase ladies and gents x

[Keyser Söze]

and Irre's Iatest p0sts interacti0ns with him were reaIIy weird

My posts were righteous
Relly had been caught

Do you want me ever in heaven?

[Keyser Söze]

I like your Eragon town read.
Send me to heaven though.
I am the safest player to vote to heaven.

Are your bottom two reads Volx and me?

[Keyser Söze]

@The Worst - vote me if you think I'm town

@Volx - vote me if you think I'm town

[Keyser Söze]

@TW - Would you still love me if I say I don’t trust you enough to put you into heaven today?

I have been meditating over D1 through to yesterday.
I need you vs Volxen resolving.
LabRat has become the spanner in the works who I’m now t/reading :/ scum!LabRat wouldn’t know I’m a sucker for AtE and stubborn play...
Eragon I’m confirmed biasing town: both you and LabRat t/reading Eragon makes me feel even better with that read.
Ausuka is Ausuka. The wild card that remains unaligned with no one.

[Keyser Söze]

and I didn't n0tice it at first either, but my v0te 0n TW was a hammer, s0 y0u're n0t getting Iynched anyways

I hope you didn’t.

[Keyser Söze]

You went missing for a week LabRat.

You do not come in say HI and hammer.

[Keyser Söze]

I think it’s time I roleclaimed.

[Keyser Söze]

Thanks for finally town reading me LabRat x

[Keyser Söze]

Congrats guys, crucial heaven phase there.

Wellplayed TW too, and mending our D1 differences x



Yes, I agree with me staying in the game to endgame now.
We actually have to put in some work today though as yesterday was very lazy by everyone (me included).

[Keyser Söze]

Today for me is about solidifying my read on Eragon. That’s the game clincher here.
If he’s town, we’ve won.

Won’t be online til end of Friday. May pop in here and there until then. Sorry people x

[Keyser Söze]

Today for me is about solidifying my read on Eragon. That’s the game clincher here.
If he’s town, we’ve won.

Won’t be online til end of Friday. May pop in here and there until then. Sorry people x

Wait, you still have doubts about Eragon being town?

He’s my #1 town read.

It’s all about tomorrow’s heaven phase (thinking long term).

[Keyser Söze]

y0u're 0bvi0usIy n0t m0tivated

Please don’t do this again. Ever.

Please respect my due diligence in scrutinising my read on Eragon.

The amount of time I have put into this game I want to win it.

I will hammer Volxen in my OWN time.

Thank you

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry for being rude yesterday.

Please be patient though, was a tough week.


Me not voting Volxen right now doesn’t mean I don’t want to solve the game though. Volxen gets to defend themselves (as I’m sure you’d want to defend yourself too if faced with a quicklynch)

Games are naturally gonna lose a bit of zest and tenacity as numbers drop, but please keep your WIM up, as I agree yesterday was ‘lazy’ from everyone x

[Keyser Söze]

Time to end 0pen 738: Purgat0ry.

I need t0 d0 s0me Christmas sh0pping.

VOTE: v0lxen

[Keyser Söze]

Y0u were supp0sed to say THANKS there LabRat


Where are y0uuuuuuuuuuuu

[Keyser Söze]

pm me y0ur reaI acc0unt pIease

[Keyser Söze]

y0u have twenty sec0nds to c0mpIy

[Keyser Söze]

0h l0l I th0ught y0u feII On y0ur keyb0ard. That is a new name t0 me x

[Keyser Söze]

0mg, I'm s0rry

That is why we should have waited for Volxen to defend himself...

(I admittedly wanted him sorted anyway due to TW’s request anyway).

No more quicklynching now, agreed?


I’m now gonna continue looking at my town read of Eragon.

Town-Eragon wins us the game IMO.

[Keyser Söze]

Assume that both me and Keyser are confirmed town.
Eragon
Volxen
Labrat
Ausuka
Keyser

That leaves 3/5 people left
Volxen
Labrat
Ausuka


We are currently in HELL PHASE, meaning lynching for scum.

So Lynch one of those three, lets just say we Lynch volxen for simplicity sake and he flips town

That leaves
Eragon
Keyser
Ausuka
Labrat

Again assuming me and Keyser are town,
Ausuka and Labrat are the only scum possible

Then in heaven phase, we put one of me/keyser to heaven, obviously. We can decide when we get there.

Lets say we Lynch me, leaving
Keyser
Ausuka
Labrat

With 1 scum remaining.

And its back to the hell phase

Lets say they Lynch ausuka, If ausuka is scum, game over, if ausuka is town, game goes to

JUDGEMENT DAY

With a 1v1 between

Labrat

And

Keyser

(honestly fitting based on how D1/D2 went lmao)

Meaning the town in heaven will send LabRat to hell, and unless Keyser is scum, we still win

No matter what we do, as long as keyser is town(and me from your perspective) this game is 100% auto-win for town

btw sorry for not being active, and dont expect much more in the next couple of days.
im busy as fuck and trying to semi-retire from FM in general

I believe the same thing, but in my world view it’s:


“as long as Eragon is town this game is 100% auto-win for town”


Does anyone disagree with this?

[Keyser Söze]

0mg, I'm s0rry

That is why we should have waited for Volxen to defend himself...

(I admittedly wanted him sorted anyway due to TW’s request anyway).

No more quicklynching now, agreed?


I’m now gonna continue looking at my town read of Eragon.

Town-Eragon wins us the game IMO.

Did I read the thread wrong or did you just hammer him?

I think that labrat is townier than eragon.

LabRat was non stop asking for Volxen’s quicklynch and to end the game.
After your quick vote, I gave LabRat what she wanted.

[Keyser Söze]

We can talk about (or go through) Eragon’s ISO:

First chapter:
- his town read on Creature
- his initial scum lean/suspicion on DrJ
- his one vs one with Relly

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, the WIFOM route on LabRat is in her favour.

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry will try to post here, deadline in 2 days.

[Keyser Söze]

Volx wanted to heaven Eragon today.

@Labrat,

The soonest I would be able to do a serious ISO dive on you would be Friday or this weekend. But I know the last scum is you or Ausuka. I'm not worried about getting mislynched, because I know I'm town and me getting mislynched won't cost town the game, provided Keyser and Eragon listen to me.

If I am mislynched today then do this do win the game:

Heaven 3: Eragon
Hell 4: Labrat

Then the last two are {Keyser, Ausuka}. Martyr's lynch Ausuka and GG. This doesn't need to be complicated.

TW wanted to heaven Eragon today if Volx flipped green:

Ima0, if v0Ix fIips scum the game is 0ver, s0 his Iynch cann0t be inf0rmative in any way
if y0u're g0nna think ab0ut the next heaven phase y0u can as weII assume that he'II fIip t0wn
but yeah, he has t0 get Iynched, I reaIIy h0pe that'II be a scum Iynch tbh

me too ye but if he does green I think Eragon is like locked as the Heaven 3 lynch

I'd say the rest has to be {you, Ausuka} tho. like I would only want Keyser in judgement day because I don't think I'd ever lynch him

I wanted to heaven Eragon.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: keyser soeze

Let's just end this game. Nobody seems interested anymore and I'm confident enough that last scum is era to go ahead with this.

Why didn’t you scum case Eragon ?

[Keyser Söze]

Is Relly’s Scum-read/push on Eragon bothering anyone else?

[Keyser Söze]

im akshully very confident in an Irrel!scum here.

on top of not liking their posts this game, from what i have seen...

they do not have the same form of transparant towni-ness that they were fond of in WW.
Like, did anyone ever even scumread them in WW?
they were extremly obvious through thoughts, reads, wagons, etc... and even from a scum perspective i knew that was always going to be town

this game i have seen almost absolutely none of that, im not sure if its b/c different perspectives or what, but i do not see any similarities, and dislike their posts not-meta based either

Eragon first to post an articulate case on Relly D1...

[Keyser Söze]

okay actually a few thoughts before I go because the game isn't playable without all slots talking:

I still think tw is probably town, I just didn't feel good post-creature flip about his strong push there. But otoh the intensity of his push rang towny (not sure tw gets that intense against a friend just for a d1 mislynch), and imo creature was playing scummy anyway. Eh I still have bad feelings here, but the game makes more sense to me if he's town
Ausuka made some good points about volxen's play that, especially depending on who volxen is scum with, bring volxen back toward possible-scum, even though I still lean town for him too. Ausuka is also very bold if scum, challenging commonly held ideas.
Keyser/eragon always has a scum, possibly two. Keyser seems overeager to throw shade, eragon seem undereager to solve, both have strong scumgames and I wouldn't put it past them to manage to both be offwagon
I have literally no clue what to do with labrat because I've seen p much nothing from the slot d2 and only remember the keyser push from d1

Hot take: DrJ is the townie with the worst reads so far, which is why he is easy to wagon this game phase. Paranoid about the very popular push to Heaven them, but maybe scum are just looking to lynch townies in every phase idk.

Something like:
{me}
{the worst}
{volxen, ausuka, DrJ}
{labrat} - null
{keyser, eragon}

ausuka should maybe be a scumread, I haven't had time to analyze trajectory, just getting town from the bold play
I'm mentally on page 51, so do with this what you will

“Eragon seems under-eager to solve”

Let’s see.. shall we?

Who is the only person(other than maybe keyser?) That correctly read creature
Who actually MADE A CASE on volxen being town that’s not “Oh ThEiR fIrSt FiVe PoStS mAkE tHeM oBv ToWn On MeTa”
Who has been reconsidering reads
Who has 40 more posts than you and joined at the end of D1
Who has acually been in thread for the majority of time active?

So stop this bullshiting of yours


You call Ausuka either town or very bold scum for going against the trend?
WHAT ABOUT ME TOWNREADING CREATURE?
Do you have like, selective amnesia or some shit?

“Doc J is town with terrible reads”

Great doubtcastig you have there
Before you do crap like this actually make detailed reads of your own, or, you know, like actually make reads that aren’t sheeping TW and that you can explain yourself?



I think the only slot really not talking is you?

Lab has been very active
I’m here
Keyser is here
Ausuka is intermittent
Doc J is here
TW has presence
volxen has picked up a lot in d2

God daaamn this looks TOO GOOD to be scum theatre.

[Keyser Söze]

D2*

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Eragon

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: keyser

[Keyser Söze]

Do I get to discuss the game with TW in heaven?

[Keyser Söze]

Why did you turn up only now? !

[Keyser Söze]

What happens if it’s draw?

[Keyser Söze]

If you don’t trust your reads vote me to heaven.

If you’re 100% sure Eragon is town, vote him to heaven. Him being town wins or loses us the game.

[Keyser Söze]

It’s ok,it’s been a good game x

[Keyser Söze]

Eragon has had the best game as scum or town.

Defended Creature
Suspected DJ.
Crucified Relly.
Never in anyone’s PoE.


There’s no bad defeat here.

[Keyser Söze]

Eragon has all the town cred.

I have nothing.

I can understand why you vote Eragon over me here

[Keyser Söze]

Damn it we lost

[Keyser Söze]

Eragon has too much town cred = scum

[Keyser Söze]

I thought it’s expired?

[Keyser Söze]

There are lots of reasons to town read Eragon through the choices he has made

[Keyser Söze]

GET IN TOWN! Everyone had a part to play in this one.

This game was both challenging, frustrating and fun. In the end, getting Dr J into heaven was actually crucial, he would had long wolfed and manipulated us otherwise. Me and TW finally realising we were both town was key too. Wellplayed Labrat and Eragon delivering the win on the final day.

[Keyser Söze]

Definitely - I think we both prefer scum hunting. I find it very hard to replicate my town ‘character’ and energy when I roll scum. I think our lil gang know eachother too well now