Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!


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Post Post #3237 (isolation #200) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:56 am

Post by Varsoon »

You targeted Creature, you said?
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Post Post #3239 (isolation #201) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:11 am

Post by Varsoon »

Why did you target Creature?
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Post Post #3241 (isolation #202) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:19 am

Post by Varsoon »

Can you quote the exact posts for me?
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Post Post #3243 (isolation #203) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:50 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3240, Keyser Söze wrote:I thought the posts he was being t/read for were NAI: the tin foil translated to ‘smug scum’. With the hard defences for him he ended D1 as a slot I wanted more info on.
Show this progression.

VOTE: Keyser

I don't doubt your role.
However, you're incorrectly using mod meta to justify it when the mod might specifically go against meta in this situation.
Furthermore, I'm really to believe the following:
1. A player that has had a fairly scummy game so far just so happens to
2. Be a gunsmith role in a game where town has a PGO and Vig already
3. Where the mod has run this sort of setup as all-town before
4. Where players who are familiar with that game are playing here in this one
5. And you just so happened to check Creature, the only player who you could have checked out of 16 possible choices
6. Creature, who's flip makes it such that your claim has no actual validity to it
7. Creature, who your rationale for checking is this shaky

I don't buy it.
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Post Post #3246 (isolation #204) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:27 am

Post by Varsoon »

Nah, I just kinda want you to flip red.
:/
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Post Post #3255 (isolation #205) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:57 am

Post by Varsoon »

It might.
I dunno.
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Post Post #3257 (isolation #206) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:10 am

Post by Varsoon »

What are your thoughts on Performer and Mewtaph?
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Post Post #3260 (isolation #207) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:41 am

Post by Varsoon »

Why do you think he checked creature and he's not just lying about it?
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Post Post #3262 (isolation #208) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:19 am

Post by Varsoon »

Makes plenty of sense as a fake if he were the killer and makes plenty of sense if he's just trying to lie about his actual results.
It's his play + thinking that claiming a gunsmith on an already-flipped Vig clears him, somehow.
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Post Post #3269 (isolation #209) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:51 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3264, AlmostNancy wrote:
In post 3229, Performer wrote:
In post 2713, Performer wrote:I am 1-shot Bp, flavor of Bunkered SCV.
Isn’t SCV a bad thing in Starcraft?
No, SCVs are the worker units for the Terran.
You wouldn't put SCVs in a Bunker--usually that's where you put your marines so that they can hold a choke point more readily. It's like a defensive tower that has to be destroyed before the units inside can be hurt, but anyone inside can attack those outside.

SCVs don't attack, though, and literally only serve two purposes:
Mining and building.
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Post Post #3270 (isolation #210) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:57 am

Post by Varsoon »

However, the SCV in a bunker is so novel that I don't doubt it's something that the mod put in the game--Jury's just out on whether that's a fake claim or not.
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Post Post #3288 (isolation #211) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:14 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I'm less inclined to believe Performer AND Mewtaph.
VOTE: Performer
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Post Post #3371 (isolation #212) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:58 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3320, Mewtaph wrote:If I claim then someone else can confirm my claim but that will probably force them to imply the nature of their full role. So that's why I omitted my role.

I am currently aware that one player is straight up lying about their claimed role.
Then don't beat around the bush.
Your information will NOT flip with you.
Furthermore, I thought I could win that way in TAZ mafia when I had a guilty on NorthsideGal.
I made a hard soft at it but pushed someone else
That someone else was scum and shot me during the day because the mod recklessly put a scum dayvig in the setup.
Then the scum that I had a guilty on, which should have been obvious from my flip and final post, got away all game.
The day before lylo, town FOUND my guilty, and then proceeded to NO LYNCH despite having 100% caught scum.
Because town no lynched instead of lynching scum, they were smoked the next day when frustrated town voted for another town.
Several players in this game were in that game.
They can all attest to this:
Do not beat around the bush.
If you have information that 100% condemns someone as mafia, hard claim it.
Otherwise, the other townies will make some real trash plays and flush the victory you worked for down the drain.
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Post Post #3372 (isolation #213) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:00 pm

Post by Varsoon »

For instance, here's my information:
I know that Zerg exist as a faction and that their kill, by default, is not bullets.
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Post Post #3373 (isolation #214) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:03 pm

Post by Varsoon »

That's how I also am fairly sure none of last night's kills were by Zerg.
I posited even/odd factional kills as a possibility, wondering if some absolute chump would try to take credit with a doc or BP-who-used-a-vest fakeclaim, but with our doc dead, the only person who really somewhat adheres to this is Performer.
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Post Post #3374 (isolation #215) » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:04 pm

Post by Varsoon »

^ That is, wondering if someone would fake-claim otherwise to try to take credit for less kills happening.
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Post Post #3409 (isolation #216) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:59 am

Post by Varsoon »

I don't know if I can just follow you on that one.
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Post Post #3426 (isolation #217) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:51 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3423, AlmostNancy wrote:@Nauci, @Varsoon

Is there any difference between a zerg and an infested terran?
Yeah.
Infested Terran are like this:
Image

They're still human, but obviously 'changed' and controlled.

Regular Zerg are more like monsters outright and don't even talk:
Image
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Post Post #3496 (isolation #218) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:14 pm

Post by Varsoon »

@AlmostNancy: I think it's possible that an infested terran did a kill on N1, given we have two deaths.
I dunno what the factional makeup is like, though.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that whoever killed the PGO was some kind of BP SK though.
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Post Post #3518 (isolation #219) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:40 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3501, Shoshin wrote:Varsoon, now that you're around, can you update me on your reads? Where are you on the game relative to me?
I couldn't tell you everyone that's in this game.
Right now there being the 3 big wagons with ALL PLAYERS divided between them is really throwing me for a loop.
I don't know that my reads have changed all that much. I townread you, Xtoxm, and Mitilos.
I've still got to reassess due to multiball. I hadn't really considered it all that much because I was like "Oh Zerg are the main villains, makes sense, that's scum flavor" but with ONLY bullet kills I think that it's definitely gotta be some even/odd terran/protoss/evil terran/zerg divisions.

In post 3505, AlmostNancy wrote:
In post 3496, Varsoon wrote:@AlmostNancy: I think it's possible that an infested terran did a kill on N1, given we have two deaths.
I dunno what the factional makeup is like, though.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that whoever killed the PGO was some kind of BP SK though.
Yes, and after reading up some more on Starcraft, I think you’re probably right.

I’m not willing to give up the possible scumdoc theory just yet though. Once Performer flips, I think we’ll likely know that.

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.
Hm. I only played the first game, but that might apply to Kerrigan?
She starts off as a strong good-guy Terran but gets captured by the Zerg and made into such a powerful psychic infested Terran that she takes control of her own portion of the Zerg after the Overmind is killed.
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Post Post #3522 (isolation #220) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:44 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3519, Shoshin wrote:Varsoon, why are you townreading Xtom?
A lot of their posts today made sense to me. I guess that's about the extent of it. Doesn't strike me as scum being duplicitous, but town playing from the cuff.
In post 3520, Shoshin wrote:And why are you townreading Mitillos?
Mitilos has been pretty thorough it explaining their thoughts each time they enter thread. They've been less present today, but I still recall liking what they've posted today. Compare that to Mewtaph, who's paragraphs always feel so forced to me--Mitilos' writing doesn't feel as artificial or construct as most scum long-posters tend to.

Not great rationale for either, I'll admit, but I wouldn't wanna consider them for lynch today at least.
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Post Post #3525 (isolation #221) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:47 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I'm more suspect of Nauci and AlmostNancy, who are more kinda caught up with flavor-spec and pondering about and haven't been that much of a force today while just kinda letting these main wagons happen.
If we get a townflip from whoever they've settled on, I'd be more critical of them.

Speaking of people not really leaving an impression on me, Irrelephant came to mind and I literally had to check the OP to realize he was one of the dead players.
Sorry for kinda phoning this one in.

P-EDIT: See, they're posting A LOT but I don't think they've come to fruitful conclusions.

Actually willing to go against the grain on this.
VOTE: AlmostNancy
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Post Post #3526 (isolation #222) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:48 pm

Post by Varsoon »

You know what?
Fuck it.
I should really practice what I preach.
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Post Post #3527 (isolation #223) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:48 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Ugh.
I really should but.
If I'm wrong and the mod designed this specifically to fuck with me, it's cost town the game.
Uggggh.
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Post Post #3529 (isolation #224) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:49 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Shoshin.
Are you willing to take a gamble with me?
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Post Post #3533 (isolation #225) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:50 pm

Post by Varsoon »

@Shoshin: The only deaths I remember are Not Mafia, who was lynched, and Creature, who was killed. I forgot Irrel was the other one.
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Post Post #3535 (isolation #226) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:50 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3532, Shoshin wrote:
In post 3529, Varsoon wrote:Shoshin.
Are you willing to take a gamble with me?
What's the gamble?
Remember TAZ.
Think of that situation on D2.
Do you think I should have been straightforward or do you think I handled things was right?
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Post Post #3538 (isolation #227) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:51 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3534, Nauci wrote:
In post 3518, Varsoon wrote:but with ONLY bullet kills I think that it's definitely gotta be some even/odd terran/protoss/evil terran/zerg divisions.
:thinking:

Would protoss have bullets?
No, but they do have illusory sort-of-spells and things like that, though it's more like things that make them invisible.
They use gauss and beam weaponry.
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Post Post #3540 (isolation #228) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:52 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Like it's much more feasable that the Protoss would 'shoot' someone, but it'd be with plasma rifles and lasers rather than bullets.
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Post Post #3541 (isolation #229) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:53 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3539, Shoshin wrote:I think you should have just been straightforward, Varsoon. But that's easier to say in hindsight. I understand why you played the way you did.
I think I've kinda dug myself into being screwed here if I keep being furtive about this.
I'm informed.
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Post Post #3547 (isolation #230) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I am informed there is another player in the game with the same flavor name as me.
I am also informed that they are a member of the Zerg faction.
Each night, I learn the targets of the Zerg night kills.
At Night 4, I will learn all of the targets for Zerg night actions taken on Night 3.
I am also informed that they KNOW my role exists and what I am aware of, but not who I am.

I am Duran.
I think that AlmostNancy's play has specifically been trying to get me to tilt the other knowledge I have.
I highly suspected I would die tonight and was trying to make implications about AlmostNancy so that you'd be able to follow the crumbs back there.
I didn't want to claim this because now Zerg HAVE TO KILL ME and our Medic is dead, too.

I also believe Zerg work on an Even-Night Kill because Zerg did not kill on Night 1.
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Post Post #3548 (isolation #231) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:00 pm

Post by Varsoon »

AlmostNancy's likely avoided claiming their flavor because it'd scum-confirm them to me and they couldn't wriggle away with a fake-claim of flavor after I claimed against them.
Here's the problem though, now that I've outted this.
Do you think the mod would intentionally design a SECOND role that's information is of a 'not-the-real-character' flavor?
Just to fuck with us?
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Post Post #3550 (isolation #232) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:01 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I highly suspect that AlmostNancy is playing in this way, D2, because they are fairly certain I'm the one with the same flavor, and were trying to get me to tilt without full-outing my role, so they could get away and still kill me tonight.
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Post Post #3552 (isolation #233) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:02 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Anyway, that's the gamble.
If TAZ hadn't shaken out the way it did, then I would've tried to continue the whole dance of "Yeah Zerg could've killed N1" and acting like the only flavor I knew as infected Terran was Kerrigan, but that's it.
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Post Post #3554 (isolation #234) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:03 pm

Post by Varsoon »

If you're town here, I'll apologize in post-game and also have quite a few words with the mod about designing setups specifically made to fuck town.
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Post Post #3556 (isolation #235) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:04 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Yes. The mod literally sent me a PM at daystart that told me the Zerg did not target anyone with a killing action.
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Post Post #3557 (isolation #236) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Post by Varsoon »

My role was highly likely meant to serve as a means of confirming docs/BP roles present in the setup, since I learn if Zerg took a target, even if their kill failed.
It also lets me know this is very likely multiball since we've got TWO UNCLAIMED KILLS confirmed to be not from Zerg.
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Post Post #3560 (isolation #237) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:07 pm

Post by Varsoon »

The other reason I'm claiming all this now is that I'm fairly sure I tilted too much anyway and was gonna catch a kill and, as the mod re-iterated, Informed players don't flip their information.

P-EDIT: I commented on that earlier, that could make sense. If that's the case, then Xtoxm and AlmostNancy as partners might make sense--didn't AlmostNancy defend there a bit? Regardless, we should flip AlmostNancy first.
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Post Post #3563 (isolation #238) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:09 pm

Post by Varsoon »

@AlmostNancy: My flavor is identical to a scum player who is not actually my character but an imposter. You claimed pretty much the same thing. It feels like bait to try to get me to tilt too much info because if you are that scum player, you know the longer my role stays in game, the more info town gets.

If you're town, I'm sorry.
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Post Post #3564 (isolation #239) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:10 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Consider my point of view.
I literally just came out of a towngame with Shoshin and Skitter where if I had just claimed my guilty instead of softed it on D2, we would have very likely won the game.
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Post Post #3565 (isolation #240) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:11 pm

Post by Varsoon »

It's far, far less of a hard-guilty here, but the evidence does stack up and it makes me very uncomfortable with the leading wagons.
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Post Post #3569 (isolation #241) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:16 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3198, AlmostNancy wrote:P.edit because the REAL _____ will claim first and scum won’t be able to beat them to it.
In post 3505, AlmostNancy wrote:
In post 3496, Varsoon wrote:@AlmostNancy: I think it's possible that an infested terran did a kill on N1, given we have two deaths.
I dunno what the factional makeup is like, though.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that whoever killed the PGO was some kind of BP SK though.
Yes, and after reading up some more on Starcraft, I think you’re probably right.

I’m not willing to give up the possible scumdoc theory just yet though. Once Performer flips, I think we’ll likely know that.

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.
You literally said you know someone isn't 'the original' [FLAVORNAME].
That's my role.
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Post Post #3575 (isolation #242) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:25 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3572, Xtoxm wrote:you don't think its possible that 2 townies received similar things? the whole scum team could be imposters. for this to be a guilty you would need to claim the same person.
I literally did say it was possible and a gamble earlier.
You can see my hesitance about the mod designing a setup this way because of how much it fucks town for claiming.

Like I said, considering the nature of AlmostNancy's claim, the timing of it (D2 when my good info starts rolling in N2/3/4) and the way AlmostNancy has interacted with me in regards to flavor, I think I'm on the right path.
If I'm not, fuck me, we lose, whatever.
At least I did what I believed in.
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Post Post #3596 (isolation #243) » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3588, Nauci wrote:
In post 3547, Varsoon wrote:I am Duran.
lmao Krazy you sonofabitch
I don't remember/know much about the character.
Why's this make Krazy an SoB?
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Post Post #3683 (isolation #244) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:27 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3601, AlmostNancy wrote:It isn’t Duran.

Why did you do that Varsoon? Why?

Why didn’t you ask me if the name I’d been given. had a D in it or something?

Then I could have put your mind at ease and you wouldn’t have claimed.
Because it'd out that I'm Duran to the Zerg Duran who wants to kill me.
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Post Post #3684 (isolation #245) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:34 am

Post by Varsoon »

@Skitter: Yeah, you're pretty much right in all your conclusions you asked me about.

@Mitilos: I learn if Zerg took a killing action, regardless of if it is a success or not.
In post 3662, AlmostNancy wrote:@Varsoon, I’m really sorry I lost it on you earlier. I think I was more in shock then anything else. And I did what I did, because of your post. I just don’t know how we win this now. :/
If you're town, then we lose, and it's thanks to the mod designing a setup that's got this much hard swing and screw for town claiming.
It's also thanks to my particular combination of trash history with roles like this one.
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Post Post #3687 (isolation #246) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:32 am

Post by Varsoon »

Yeah, cut the crap with the apathy/frustration bit.
Just play the game.
I literally jumped in front of the Zerg kill to give you info that I probably was going to die with tonight anyway.
Do. Something.
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Post Post #3689 (isolation #247) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:40 am

Post by Varsoon »

Right then.
So what do you propose, Xtoxm?
Do we settle on one of Performer, Mewtaph, or Keyser?
Or do we go all in on the gamble that AlmostNancy is the role my role warns us about?
Or do we do something altogether different?

We have 2 days. We are headed into a holiday weekend. Let's figure this out now.
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Post Post #3691 (isolation #248) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:49 am

Post by Varsoon »

Okay, then.
I also think that Nancy's reaction struck me as town, though it really bothers me that I went all-in.

Here's the big issue I have.
If Performer isn't lying about being bulletproof, scum REALLY want his lynch.

But he could also very very easily be bulletproof and belong to one of the non-Terran factions.

So I am conflicted there.
Why go for Performer over anyone else?
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Post Post #3692 (isolation #249) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:50 am

Post by Varsoon »

I also think that Kokichi isn't a delayed IC at all, but, rather, is a delayed informational role just like mine.
Take that as you will.
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Post Post #3694 (isolation #250) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:58 am

Post by Varsoon »

If he's lying about the IC thing, lynch him no matter what he claims. No matter what.
If he is scum, then the info he gets is more valuable than his life--especially considering his claim bought him out of being lynched early anyway.
Does that make sense? If you're going to be lynched D1, why not claim something to survive at least until you get factional info for your team?
That's the rationale I see.

I see what you're saying on Performer. Why do you think scum have entirely avoided buying into my AlmostNancy wagon?
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Post Post #3695 (isolation #251) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:58 am

Post by Varsoon »

Is it bad optics post-flip or what?
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Post Post #3696 (isolation #252) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:58 am

Post by Varsoon »

Since they're for sure killing me so there's no way to set up lynch AlmostNancy into lynching me.
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Post Post #3697 (isolation #253) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:01 am

Post by Varsoon »

Alternatively, scum could just hard-avoid on AlmostNancy if AlmostNancy is scum so
I think they get the most out of townreading AlmostNancy here no matter the situation.
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Post Post #3700 (isolation #254) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:07 am

Post by Varsoon »

@Skitter: Absolutely, yes, Zerg are our enemies.
I hate the idea that this setup has both a gunsmith that gets a false positive on two town roles so far and that there may be two informed roles that can be tricked into full-claiming solely based on the soft-claim of the other.
It's far, far too much bullshit put into the setup that's negative rhetorical utility for town.
I hate it.
That's why I want that Nancy lynch
Because if it flips town at least I can feel okay that the setup is just made to pants/embarrass town.
and if it flips scum then I won and I'm the best and I can die happy.
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Post Post #3705 (isolation #255) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:15 am

Post by Varsoon »

Ya'll wanna swing absolutely the different direction and lynch Koki on the chance he's an informational role instead of an IC? :P

@Nauci: I'll be honest.
I haven't read a single Mewtaph post all game.
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Post Post #3707 (isolation #256) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:16 am

Post by Varsoon »

I'd normally not think it's a counter or whatever, Xtoxm, but the nature of my role is knowing that someone else has my flavor and knows I get informed. So it makes sense that person would try to tilt me to soft so they could find and kill me before my info drops.
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Post Post #3712 (isolation #257) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:22 am

Post by Varsoon »

Nah, we're not lynching Koki today.
I KNOW he's probably screwing with me for REASONS with THAT CLAIM but
I can't abandon my principles.

Just warning you guys
We're up shit creek.
You better put your best foot forward
Or we lose.
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Post Post #3713 (isolation #258) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:22 am

Post by Varsoon »

VOTE: Keyser
Yeah I don't think town has this much negative utility built in either.
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Post Post #3714 (isolation #259) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:22 am

Post by Varsoon »

Can't wait to die and see the setup.
If it's what I think it is, I'm going to have choice words for Krazy.
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Post Post #3719 (isolation #260) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:28 am

Post by Varsoon »

@Performer:
I don't know how to spell out my claim any more than I already have.
What are you having trouble figuring out here?
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Post Post #3720 (isolation #261) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:28 am

Post by Varsoon »

The idea is that gunsmith would yeild a guilty on people with 'bullet' kills only, which we're spec'ing that Zerg don't use.
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Post Post #3722 (isolation #262) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:31 am

Post by Varsoon »

Gunsmith checks if someone has a gun, right?
Literally pulling from the wiki:
"The Gunsmith is an information role that can target a player at Night to learn if they have a gun in flavor. Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors), Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor. Notably, Serial Killers and Doctors do not have guns."

Oh wow it checks for GUN FLAVOR
This game is confirmed to have BULLET FLAVOR that is IMPORTANT.
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Post Post #3723 (isolation #263) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:32 am

Post by Varsoon »

Unless you can pull from Krazy's mod meta and find an iteration of gunsmith that works differently?
This is also why shorthand for mafiascum is a shit.
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Post Post #3726 (isolation #264) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:34 am

Post by Varsoon »

I don't buy town having a gunsmith when we've got two roles that'd already ping it and there's high chance scum have roles to give it 'false' clears.

But that really depends on how much the mod has designed this specifically to ruin my day.
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Post Post #3728 (isolation #265) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:37 am

Post by Varsoon »

Wonky shit is (iirc) that Keyser claimed Informed Town Gunsmith after there had been a lot of discussion about Gunsmith in the setup.
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Post Post #3743 (isolation #266) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:19 am

Post by Varsoon »

I'm feeling really apathetic because I get criticized by someone regardless of what play I make and I think I really messed up if AlmostNancy is town here and I basically just gutted my own slot.

It's hard to get enthused.
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Post Post #3744 (isolation #267) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:20 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3740, Nauci wrote:@varsoon I think we really need you to read mewtaph
Can you direct me to certain posts?
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Post Post #3747 (isolation #268) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:25 am

Post by Varsoon »

I feel like I've been jerked around so much.
I lowkey hate myself for outting my info.

VOTE: Mewtaph
I really don't like any of the people up for lynch, all for different reasons.
This game is just awful to me.
I'm probably going to quit mafia after this.
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Post Post #3749 (isolation #269) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:27 am

Post by Varsoon »

I'll still probably mod but I think I'm awful at the actual game of mafia.
Like particularly game-throwingly bad.
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Post Post #3752 (isolation #270) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:33 am

Post by Varsoon »

I'll be around but I've got no conviction.
It annoys me.
I'm town but I don't even read all of everyone's posts.
I skim so much content and generally don't engage or make efforts at game solving.
I like to boast when I luck out on a read but that's all empty showboating.
There's nothing worse than knowing that I'm not doing enough and that other people might lose the game because I can't feel the urgency to commit more.
I feel like I'm awful at analysis.
I get so biased and caught up in 'what-if' scenarios.
And when I do think someone is scum, I'll entrench so hard it ruins the game and hard-flavors everyone's perceptions.
I've been trying to get better but it feels fruitless.
I hate this struggle, being in games but being a liability and a sham.
I hate when I think I have something figured out but everyone else just kinda doesn't agree.
I hate how personally invested I get in games I'm only even half-reading.
I hate how when I get really invested like that, I ad-hom and lash out and bias how I read players.
I think it's never been helpful for town, not once.
I couldn't even tell you all the living players in this game.
I outright forgot Irrelephant was one of the players killed.

I'm sorry to let everyone else down like this.
I won't do it again.
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Post Post #3753 (isolation #271) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:35 am

Post by Varsoon »

I'm bad at playing with others and horrible at solving on my own. I'm not really cut out for it.
I really like mafia. I like this big rhetorical game of trying to solve alignments, find out who your allies really are, etc.
I think it's made needlessly frustrating by multiball, though. That's what really destroys me.
That and setups designed in a way meant to make me come to wrong conclusions.
And it feels like this is all of that.
I can't stand it.
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Post Post #3754 (isolation #272) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:36 am

Post by Varsoon »

A good player is able to grow beyond their faults, trust when they need to, analyze the rhetoric, find scum, obv-town, and lead weaker players.
I don't think I can really do any of that.
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Post Post #3755 (isolation #273) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:37 am

Post by Varsoon »

I tried to get back into the swing with recent newbie games and thought I was making some improvement on those fronts but now that I'm playing in these various other games, I feel absolutely swamped.

Maybe I should just take one game at a time?
I definitely picked up too many.
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Post Post #3756 (isolation #274) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:38 am

Post by Varsoon »

I was feeling tortured over the informational stuff on my role, especially when it felt like Almost Nancy was BLATANTLY fishing for it.
Especially since I literally just came out of TAZ, where we would've probably won if I had just claimed my guilty on NSG.
I fucked up there and I think I fucked up here, too.
Why does this keep happening to me?
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Post Post #3761 (isolation #275) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:41 am

Post by Varsoon »

<3
Thank you.
I agree, games should be about fun and not just who wins.
I think when I get too personally involved, they stop being fun for other people.
What bothers me is that I enjoy when I am frustrated enough to be watching the thread like a hawk; at least then I feel engaged and alive, even if I'm pissed off.
I'm going to just try to focus on one game at a time moving forward and see how that goes.
This game and others have really destroyed my confidence.
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Post Post #3769 (isolation #276) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:47 am

Post by Varsoon »

Thanks, all of you.
I wanted to play with you folks, too.
I just feel like I really dunced up here.

Yeah, if my posts and death and info can help us towards a win, that'd be awesome. I feel bad because we already lost such powerful roles, and me claiming my info now almost certainly means I won't make it to the later days where I get even better info.

P-EDIT:
I've got a real problem reading Mewtaph's posts. Like I said, they feel really disconnected and artificial.
Mewtaph isn't a presence in this game like they should be.

P-P-EDIT:
I'm just told Zerg exist, not about if their flavor is bullets or not; that's just flavor spec on them literally having scythes and no way to shoot besides poison spores and spikes and exploding things.
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Post Post #3770 (isolation #277) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:48 am

Post by Varsoon »

EBWOP: Scythes for hands*
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Post Post #3771 (isolation #278) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:50 am

Post by Varsoon »



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Post Post #3775 (isolation #279) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:53 am

Post by Varsoon »

Zerg are monsters more than they are people. They could have an infested person among them that uses bullet flavor on kills, though, which I know is literally true since they have an infested Duran.

@Mitilos: There's no reason for people to scumread me now, just doubtcast when I am right. :/
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Post Post #3776 (isolation #280) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:54 am

Post by Varsoon »

https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/List_ ... t_II_units

This might be helpful for people to visualize what the different races are like.
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Post Post #3782 (isolation #281) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:05 am

Post by Varsoon »

Right now, for me, it's either Keyser or Mewtaph.
I don't think Keyser's a town gunsmith for all the reasons I've stated before.
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Post Post #3785 (isolation #282) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:06 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3243, Varsoon wrote:
In post 3240, Keyser Söze wrote:I thought the posts he was being t/read for were NAI: the tin foil translated to ‘smug scum’. With the hard defences for him he ended D1 as a slot I wanted more info on.
Show this progression.

VOTE: Keyser

I don't doubt your role.
However, you're incorrectly using mod meta to justify it when the mod might specifically go against meta in this situation.
Furthermore, I'm really to believe the following:
1. A player that has had a fairly scummy game so far just so happens to
2. Be a gunsmith role in a game where town has a PGO and Vig already
3. Where the mod has run this sort of setup as all-town before
4. Where players who are familiar with that game are playing here in this one
5. And you just so happened to check Creature, the only player who you could have checked out of 16 possible choices
6. Creature, who's flip makes it such that your claim has no actual validity to it
7. Creature, who your rationale for checking is this shaky

I don't buy it.
I don't know that he ever showed that progression, either? :/
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Post Post #3786 (isolation #283) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:07 am

Post by Varsoon »

VOTE: Keyser
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Post Post #3789 (isolation #284) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:09 am

Post by Varsoon »

Yeah it doesn't make sense.
Also, the thing that keeps irking me is
Keyser said he was an 'informed' gunsmith
And also he claimed after other people put out the possibility of gunsmith.
It just feels really, really artificial.
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Post Post #3791 (isolation #285) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:10 am

Post by Varsoon »

So Keyser claimed informed gunsmith but I don't think he ever claimed his information
Which is something you would think town would claim
I just don't know why.
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Post Post #3792 (isolation #286) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:10 am

Post by Varsoon »

It's a really fantastic game that you can literally play for free and it, for a very long time, was called the National Sport of South Korea due to its popularity there.
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Post Post #3793 (isolation #287) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:11 am

Post by Varsoon »

https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/product/starcraft

Seriously, this runs on Windows 95.
Go play it.
It's literally free.
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Post Post #3796 (isolation #288) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:12 am

Post by Varsoon »

When I ISO'd 'gunsmith' I saw hits for it before his gunsmith claim.
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Post Post #3801 (isolation #289) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:15 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 1716, Performer wrote:
In post 1266, Nauci wrote:I feel like there are a several misunderstandings in your posts, performer (e.g. varsoon has only ever sarcastically said shoshin is 100% accurate)

Also I don't remember Irrelephant saying what Rory Swann's job was? (Fwiw, he was an engineer who created all of the weaponry for the protagonist, hence why I thought gunsmith would have been appropriate)

I'm having a hard time parsing some of what you said
What are these misunderstandings?

About vars I have to disagree as Vars' continued faith in shos stopped sounding like sarcasm and sounded like he was a religious believer.

What's the relevance of Rory's job? I did a lookup and went with the result I found , as I didn't even remember who Rory was in the SC series so I had to look into it. As for gunsmith, I don't know about that but I
took his claim at face value of him stating he was a PGO , and I'm thinking it's likelier than not.

What are you having hard time with for parsing - what's unclear?
In post 1267, the worst wrote:heavy tpr spec in this setup is probably bad. turst me on this one
?

I actually find it helpful in normals and games that have been touched by at least 1 member of the NRG . Also flavor speculating if claimed flavors make sense, should help in flavored/themed games like this one.
In post 1266, Nauci wrote:I feel like there are a several misunderstandings in your posts, performer (e.g. varsoon has only ever sarcastically said shoshin is 100% accurate)

Also I don't remember Irrelephant saying what Rory Swann's job was? (Fwiw, he was an engineer who created all of the weaponry for the protagonist, hence why I thought gunsmith would have been appropriate)

I'm having a hard time parsing some of what you said
In post 1252, Performer wrote:
In post 1021, Nauci wrote:
In post 1018, Irrelephant11 wrote:
In post 1012, Mewtaph wrote:I think there would have to be a big reason for her being scum for me to consider her as a contender for being scum at the moment and I don't think that really exists atm.
Like what does this sentence even say about Nauci
“There would have to be a big reason for her to be scum for me to consider her scum at the moment, and I don’t think that exists at the moment”
Say it out loud and you’ll have like the definition of a tautology, and you’ll also really find yourself living *at the moment*
I don’t disagree that Nauci is townish but it’s not because *theres not a big reason to call her scum at the moment*

Nothing mewtaph has posted reads
real
so far
VOTE: mewtaph prove me wrong
Man if you really are a town pgo then we really lucked out
how did we luck out if we have a town pgo?
this is like saying we lucked out if there was a claimed gunsmith.
In post 1249, Performer wrote:
In post 1014, Nauci wrote: Irrelephant could have been another informed player that there isn't a PGO

Though that'd be very specific and overly advantageous information I don't think Krazy would throw out

I don't know how well others' flavors and roles match but Rory swan ought to have been a gunsmith instead of pho is why I'm paranoid
I don't follow. Would you mind going through why you think he's informed another player that isn't a PGO?
What are you saying here?
In post 1014, Nauci wrote:5 AM paranoia comin' in hot

Irrelephant could have been another informed player that there isn't a PGO

Though that'd be very specific and overly advantageous information I don't think Krazy would throw out

I don't know how well others' flavors and roles match but Rory swan ought to have been a gunsmith instead of pho is why I'm paranoid
In post 143, AlmostNancy wrote:
In post 107, Mitillos wrote:Incidentally, I saw in post #1 a mention of "informed status" not being revealed on flip. I've never played in a game with informed players, so I was wondering if the information they have should be shared with the rest of the town. Thoughts?
Finally, a useful subject.

If you think it should be shared then by all means, do share. If not then don't. Like why would you be telling us there is -say- a player with the loved modifier when we will get to know that later on anyway? On contrast, why would you hide something like -say- "all scum have guns" (unless you yourself are the Gunsmith).

Note: No. That's not a hint or a crumb. It's a reference to this game where I was indeed an informed Gunsmith who knew the scum team all had guns (all = both of them).
In post 3100, Keyser Söze wrote:Guys please unvote, I’m an informed town gunsmith.
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Post Post #3804 (isolation #290) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:17 am

Post by Varsoon »

I think it was mostly League's fault.
In fact, the RTS genre declined due to being flooded with sub-par games, then hitting a huge drought when console gaming became much bigger and the PC genre evolved into ASSFAGGOTS and the like.
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Post Post #3806 (isolation #291) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:18 am

Post by Varsoon »

Aeon of Strife Styled Fortress Assault Game Going On Two Sides, for those not in the know.
People also call them MOBAs and ARTs, but those aren't great descriptors.
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Post Post #3810 (isolation #292) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:26 am

Post by Varsoon »

Oh boy.

I miss back when ESPN used to air stuff like Magic the Gathering tournaments.
More innocent days, those.
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Post Post #3813 (isolation #293) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:42 am

Post by Varsoon »

Spoiler: Re:Shoshin's Spoiler
Well, you do know if your investigation has been messed with due to redirection, because you should get a different target.
IE: I target SCUM Shoshin with a cop, but am redirected to TOWN Metalsonic
Result I get "Metalsonic is town."
Does that make sense?

I generally think that designing false positives and fails like miller and godfather into a setup is really awful on the mod's part and compromises the game entirely because people rely so hard on role info. After all, if a cop claims a guilty, dies, is confirmed to be a cop, you lynch that guilty. It just makes sense.

I was saying it was game-throwing, because, by design, my role gets the most useful info by being hidden and surviving to D5. Outting gets me killed, which means that even though I get townread, it might not really help us all that much. If our doctor was still around, this would be less of an issue, but, ay.

Anyway, I do generally agree that outting roles earlier rather than later benefits town more often and I tend to design my setups around scum being able to sabotage such play.
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Post Post #3814 (isolation #294) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:43 am

Post by Varsoon »

Yeah, let's go with Keyser.
Even if Koki gets good scum/third party info and doesn't IC-confirm, I think we'll be fine.
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Post Post #3818 (isolation #295) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:55 am

Post by Varsoon »

I think Keyser's play is more scummy, whereas Mewtaph's is really just hard for me to engage with at all.
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Post Post #3821 (isolation #296) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:06 am

Post by Varsoon »

Spoiler: On all that
I consider framers and hidden flavors like hidden insane to be hard bastard because they are beyond what a player should reasonably expect in a game.

I think intentionally putting those sorts of things in a game, when you are cognizant of how the site meta generally is, is bad design. It's more forgivable if you forewarn players about it--like with how Cheetory's Painting mafia game specifically revolved around a public cop mechanic with less and less chance of being accurate about its results.

I think that roles should always be secondary to game-based rhetoric and analysis, myself. Making a game into an easy solve of 'follow the cop' renders it not mafia anymore to me. Moderators who are building games should do well to understand how players play around roles like these and should design setups that aren't compromised by design, but where the game of mafia is supplemented and player engagement is driven by design.

As much as I hard investigative roles like cop (and how people treat their results/claims), I doubly hate roles that only exist to undermine those roles, like miller/godfather. How fucking lame is it to roll miller in a role madness game?
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Post Post #3823 (isolation #297) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:07 am

Post by Varsoon »

EBWOP: As much as I hate hard investigative roles**
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Post Post #3836 (isolation #298) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:54 am

Post by Varsoon »

Wow that really
sucks
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Post Post #3868 (isolation #299) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:11 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Infested Terran = Zerg.
Infested Duran = Zerg.
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Post Post #3870 (isolation #300) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:15 pm

Post by Varsoon »

You can stop defending, AlmostNancy.
I'm not pushing you.
Other people can decide if you're scum after I'm dead.

Focus that effort/post-space elsewhere.
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Post Post #3876 (isolation #301) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:16 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Please dude stop
I am exhausted with
"YOU CANT READ ME TELL ME HOW YOU COULD THINK THIS IS MY SCUMPLAY" play

I've been over this.
I had it in my head that the way you were playing was intentionally panic!baiting whoever town!Duran was so you could NK them to deny info.
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Post Post #3883 (isolation #302) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:27 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3880, AlmostNancy wrote:
In post 3726, Varsoon wrote:I don't buy town having a gunsmith when we've got two roles that'd already ping it and there's high chance scum have roles to give it 'false' clears.

But that really depends on how much the mod has designed this specifically to ruin my day.
What 2 roles “ping” it?
The dead PGO and Vigilante.
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Post Post #3961 (isolation #303) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:21 pm

Post by Varsoon »

@AlmiostNancy: Duran is a Terran who later is Infested by the Zerg, which renders him a Zerg.
Apparently, it turns out that he's a Xelnaga, which are this progenitor race that created Protoss and Zerg, I think? I'm fuzzy on the SC2 lore, having never played it.

Protoss are a mixed bag. They are at war with the Zerg, but will destroy entire planets to eradicate the Zerg there, even if Terrans are on the planet.
So naturally the Terrans fight the Protoss sometimes.
There are several different Protoss factions with their own agendas and allies and foes within the video game.

In the first game, some Protoss end up working with the Terrans to help defeat the Zerg common enemy.
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Post Post #3964 (isolation #304) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:26 pm

Post by Varsoon »

That's cool, it's fine, whatever, I'm NOT scumreading you anymore, please stop
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Post Post #3966 (isolation #305) » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:27 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I was saying that a gunsmith would get a guilty on both of them.
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Post Post #4452 (isolation #306) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:40 am

Post by Varsoon »

Zerg kill: Xtoxm
Zerg target 1: Xtoxm
Zerg target 2: the worst
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Post Post #4453 (isolation #307) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:41 am

Post by Varsoon »

Thanks for playing out the previous day without me, entirely.
Assholes.
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Post Post #4587 (isolation #308) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:54 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 4557, Shoshin wrote:Varsoon claims that Zerg targeted Xtom for kill and the worst for something else. Varsoon's either scum lying about these actions or town telling the truth about them.

If Varsoon's town, then: the worst is town because scum don't target themselves, and Nancy's either town roleblocker along with the worst or she's a scum redirector who made the worst block me.
I don't think that line of logic is correct.
Zerg clearly didn't find me worth targeting with a kill.
They knew I'd learn their targets
So if they had something like a jailkeeper or watcher or other target role, it'd make sense they'd self target to throw my role off with WIFOM.

Also:
The zerg targeted Skitter30 with their factional kill, too, on N2.
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Post Post #4631 (isolation #309) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:20 pm

Post by Varsoon »

VOTE: Mitillos
Eh.
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Post Post #4701 (isolation #310) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:04 pm

Post by Varsoon »

UNVOTE:

Take your time
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Post Post #4749 (isolation #311) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:01 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 4746, Shoshin wrote:Varsoon, why did you say that Zerg weren't using bullets when you supposedly had knowledge of a Zerg Duran (i.e. someone capable of using bullets)?
I always figured it would be a possibility but the default zerg kill definitely wouldn't be bullets.
Flavorspec, really.
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Post Post #4928 (isolation #312) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:22 am

Post by Varsoon »

Kinda pisses me off that everyone suspects me when all I've been is upfront and honest this game
But I guess that was THE POINT in not killing me, so whatever
It also pisses me off that Nauci's playing the activity card on me when IT IS THE HOLIDAYS, I AM ON V/LA, AND I AM NOT REALLY ALL THE JAZZED TO KEEP PLAYING A GAME I EXPECTED TO BE DEAD IN.

VOTE: Mitilos

I'm pretty much resigned.
Sorry.
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Post Post #4998 (isolation #313) » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:15 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Zerg targetted Nauci
VOTE: Performer
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Post Post #5030 (isolation #314) » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:27 pm

Post by Varsoon »

That's it.
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Post Post #5036 (isolation #315) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:39 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Nancy targeted by Zerg kill
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Post Post #5041 (isolation #316) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:40 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Also clears up that Nancy knew there was a corrupted Kerrigan and wasn't just baiting me, so that's helpful for me.
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Post Post #5043 (isolation #317) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:42 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Anyway, I'm fairly certain that one of ya'll is third party, so a no-lynch here loses me the game.
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Post Post #5046 (isolation #318) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:42 pm

Post by Varsoon »

We just gotta lynch the right person, ez pz.
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Post Post #5047 (isolation #319) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:43 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I'm also gonna be really real with you:
I haven't read much of anything since D1 and I don't even remember much of that.
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Post Post #5069 (isolation #320) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:54 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Shoshin, why Key, over Worst, who just voted you in LYLO?
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Post Post #5072 (isolation #321) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:55 pm

Post by Varsoon »

What are everyone's claims, by the way?

For what it's worth, I think Shoshin's town here.
Then again, also explains why I'm still alive, but shrugs.
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Post Post #5075 (isolation #322) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:56 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Once again, my role results were that NANCY was TARGETED by the ZERG kill.
If that helps anything?
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Post Post #5079 (isolation #323) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:58 pm

Post by Varsoon »

@Shoshin: there is no 'tonight', it's LYLO.
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Post Post #5081 (isolation #324) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:58 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Just fuckin' claim.
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Post Post #5082 (isolation #325) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:58 pm

Post by Varsoon »

And please, god, unvote.
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Post Post #5091 (isolation #326) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:03 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 5087, the worst wrote:Vars do you have any night actions which are confirmable/can confirm a roleblock?
I already fullclaimed my role. One Zerg is likely a Duran who can kill with Bullet flavor.


@Shoshin: Mod actually probably slipped?
I dunno.
Dude wrote 'Nancy was targeted by kill'.
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Post Post #5092 (isolation #327) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:04 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I expected to be dead awhile back.
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Post Post #5095 (isolation #328) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:05 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Also, fairly certain that the worst might've slipped there in calling my role 'spy' since I never claimed 'spy' despite that being the wording on my role PM.
Other Duran, however, knows I'm a 'spy'.
So uh
Yeah.
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Post Post #5099 (isolation #329) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:07 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Also-also
If it's really 2-2 or 2-1-1 here, then I can never win, so that's cool, I guess.
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Post Post #5101 (isolation #330) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:08 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I should probably ask the mod that.
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Post Post #5103 (isolation #331) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:11 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Just by play, though, I'd probably lynch Keyser first.
I'm also terrible at mafia
So I'm probably gettin snowed here
To all the dead town still reading
Sorry?
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Post Post #5105 (isolation #332) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:12 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Obviously, you're the worst.
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Post Post #5111 (isolation #333) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:15 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Yeah aight let's go for Keys, big money, let's do this
yaaaah

VOTE: Keyser
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Post Post #5112 (isolation #334) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:15 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Now tell me if I lost or not, okay?
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Post Post #5113 (isolation #335) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:16 pm

Post by Varsoon »

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #5115 (isolation #336) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:16 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I realized I should probably let Keyser come post and get that response from the mod about if I can be blocked, first
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Post Post #5116 (isolation #337) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:17 pm

Post by Varsoon »

But my vote stays on Keys in spirit
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Post Post #5117 (isolation #338) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:17 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Duck can give it up, tho, 'cus I'm never voting Shoshin here ever ever
Sorry not sorry.
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Post Post #5124 (isolation #339) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:18 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I'd also unvote, the worst, in case Keyser is some sort of awful LYLO double voter or something

Anywyay
Shohsin, can you fullclaim for me pls?

P-EDIT:
@Theworst: Then why aren't you voting Keyser?
@Shoshin: I would never ever ever no-lynch in a closed theme at 4p.
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Post Post #5129 (isolation #340) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:19 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Anyway
Going to bed
Don't do anything stupid while I'm asleep, please?
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Post Post #5130 (isolation #341) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:20 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 5127, the worst wrote:mmmkay it was worth a shot to see if vars was paying attention

Shoshin is a third party arsonist. Her wincon is incompatible with both town and zerg
I lose if I lynch her, then
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Post Post #5132 (isolation #342) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:20 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Also, if you really think this is 2-1-1 like you said earlier, that's a scumclaim from you?
I don't get it.
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Post Post #5134 (isolation #343) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:21 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 5131, the worst wrote:Vars before you go: if we get 2 votes on Keys today there is never a hammer.

pedit: you lose if you don't
How not
You vote there
She votes there
I vote there
3 votes
done son
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Post Post #5137 (isolation #344) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:23 pm

Post by Varsoon »

The only way I win is to eliminate all non-town killing roles
The only info I know for sure is Zerg still has a killing role.
So I gotta hit that.
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Post Post #5140 (isolation #345) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:23 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Shoshin
Really
come on
Full claim already.
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Post Post #5142 (isolation #346) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:24 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Why I gotta be in some shithead kingmaker position?
This blows, dawg.
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Post Post #5146 (isolation #347) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:26 pm

Post by Varsoon »

So I basically either give scum the win or hit the no lynch button and hope for the best?

Hey, Krazy, fuck you for designing a game that has this outcome, man. Ain't cool.
Also, fuck all of ya'll for taking me on this ruse cruise.
Only reason I'm even alive right now is just 'cus I'm suckshit at mafia?
Really makes a dude feel great about life.
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Post Post #5147 (isolation #348) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:26 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I'm goin' to bed
I'm not lynchin Shoshin
Just on principle.
I hate all ya'll
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Post Post #5151 (isolation #349) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:28 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Town really shit the bed this game, too.
What a garbage fucking time.
Sorry, Xtox, Nancy, all ya'll--let you down, man.
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Post Post #5152 (isolation #350) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:28 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Hey, worst, why'd you vote Keyser earlier, then?
Just posturing or whatever?
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Post Post #5156 (isolation #351) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:30 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Holy shit I'm bad
You didn't even vote keyser
Shoshin did
Man this is garbage shit awful
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Post Post #5162 (isolation #352) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:31 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I ain't votin' no-lynch, though.
@Mod: I'm never voting for a no lynch here. You can end the day early if that's a problem.
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Post Post #5318 (isolation #353) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:05 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 5216, Krazy wrote:Just want to thank everyone for playing in this game! Sorry to Varsoon and the other towns who were in a functionally lost game for a while, and thank you to the scum for not dragging it out too long.
Shit game
Shit ending
I still hate you all
And myself most of all
Seriously
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Post Post #5319 (isolation #354) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:09 am

Post by Varsoon »

I seriously can't see how any of you defend this shit
Garbage swing trash game that ends in an awful no-lynch scum win?
Trash garbage shit awful
We had the entire scum team dead to rights D2, too
Fucking awful
I hate it
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Post Post #5320 (isolation #355) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:10 am

Post by Varsoon »

Seriously
Don't ever design a multiball high-kill setup like this again
Don't ever do double informed roles that can accidentally bait each other into claiming like this again
My experience with this game was absolutely no fun
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Post Post #5321 (isolation #356) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:10 am

Post by Varsoon »

"Oh but town had so much power"
Didn't fucking matter when we were gutted N1.
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Post Post #5322 (isolation #357) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:11 am

Post by Varsoon »

Didn't FEEL like I had ANY POWER when I literally had no way to win the last phase of the game.
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Post Post #5323 (isolation #358) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:15 am

Post by Varsoon »

Koki, you saw how well faking D3 Delayed IC went for me and you still did it?
Absolute madman

I think that Shoshin and theworst played solidly, but I wouldn't lick their boots and praise them as 'best 3p, best scum' or any shit like that
Town suicided and they managed to avoid suspicion. Literally anyone who wants to win a game as non-town needs to do that.
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Post Post #5324 (isolation #359) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:18 am

Post by Varsoon »

Anyway, I've obviously got a ton of misgivings about the design of this game and how it shook out.
I think the moderation was consistent and present, which was nice, although there were a few low quality moments, it was an overall well-moderated game.
Despite how much of a foul mood this put me in upon waking up and seeing it (I'm not much of a morning person, either), thanks for running the game, Krazy.
If I ever /in to another game of yours and it's multiball, even secretly, just PM me and I'll /out. I never want to play another multiball game again. I am deliberately not going to sign up for Starcraft 2 when that rolls around unless you can confirm it is not multiball.
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Post Post #5325 (isolation #360) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:19 am

Post by Varsoon »

Also, welcome to the Varsoon hour where I was right about Shoshin AND somehow also right to sheep Shoshin's reads.
Guess that shit DOES NOT MATTER because we still lost, but that's life, ey?
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Post Post #5326 (isolation #361) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:20 am

Post by Varsoon »

Sorry for being such a loser and a sore one at that
This ending just really, really sours me.
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Post Post #5327 (isolation #362) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:21 am

Post by Varsoon »

I also think that the flavor differentiation was worthless given I'd learn Zerg Kills anyway, our Vig and PGO ate dust immediately, and Zerg could just commit bullet-flavor kills anyway until the arsonist end-gamed.
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Post Post #5328 (isolation #363) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:21 am

Post by Varsoon »

My information turned out to be largely worthless, too, imo.
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Post Post #5329 (isolation #364) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:22 am

Post by Varsoon »

Town informed is a unfun role.
Design more fun roles next time that aren't just mechanics-wank and kill-people roles.
I think that's the cornerstone of unfun design to me.
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Post Post #5330 (isolation #365) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:25 am

Post by Varsoon »

The roles really should drive the game rhetoric and not be end-all-be-all interactions in themselves.
When your roles are just "You get hard info" and "You kill this person" and "You stop this person from taking actions" that isn't really fun (for me) and doesn't help drive the game of mafia (for me).
The fact that you had to do partial flips on informed roles should indicate how much of an issue it is to put them in the game in the first place.
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Post Post #5331 (isolation #366) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:30 am

Post by Varsoon »

Also, if scum were going to win on a no-lynch yesterday, then why was the game day even run at all?
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Post Post #5334 (isolation #367) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:37 am

Post by Varsoon »

Anyway

Nancy, while I did townread you based on your emotional response and tone, that's really NOT what should be garnering you a townread. In games, I keep seeing you take really hard personal offense to someone having a game-related reason to doubt you, and it makes it really hard to continue to play around you because
1. I don't like to be wrong and I feel like I have to stop putting pressure on you to figure out if I am wrong or not in those situations because
2. I don't want to actually hurt your feelings
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Post Post #5335 (isolation #368) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:38 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 5333, the worst wrote:
In post 5331, Varsoon wrote:Also, if scum were going to win on a no-lynch yesterday, then why was the game day even run at all?
a win condition hadn't been met; arso/zerg are mutually exclusive. Shoshin had zergscum ignited. If we didn't lynch we woulda outed ourselves and she could have won.
Except we didn't lynch and she still didn't win.
It's not about 'possibility' of ending, it's about the reality of what's in the setup going into the final phase
If a win literally was impossible, as it was here, from what I can tell, then game should have ended.
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Post Post #5337 (isolation #369) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:40 am

Post by Varsoon »

I think that Shoshin did play well, but it's largely out of multiball considerations, since she could still actually, y'know, scumhunt.
And even though she played well, she still lost, because, y'know,
SETUP MISGIVINGS HERE

Also, yeah, I had fun on D1/D2, I guess? Maybe?
I don't really remember.
Glad I could play another one out with you, Xtoxm
Have more confidence in your reads and lay more casework next time.
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Post Post #5339 (isolation #370) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:44 am

Post by Varsoon »

Don't know why people are praising Shoshin's scumplay when she was third party in a multiball setup where she had to scumhunt to win anyway
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Post Post #5340 (isolation #371) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:47 am

Post by Varsoon »

I figured a lynch on Shoshin was impossible and since she was tonally reading as town anyway (because lol multiball, which is A HUGE PART why I fucking hate it and literally a part of why I resigned to lose this game the second I realized it for sure), so the next best thing was to see if we could just actually lynch all the other non-town fast enough
Guess not
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Post Post #5341 (isolation #372) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:48 am

Post by Varsoon »

And, yeah, sorry for the sardonic nonsense and ego-feeding I was doing, I know it's unbecoming, but it's incredibly frustrating to end up in yet another game that's designed in a way that's completely contrary to what I prefer to play, actually can play well in, and want to play.
It's frustrating to have a (correct) scumread on a player that everyone else is just handing free townreads to.
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Post Post #5342 (isolation #373) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:49 am

Post by Varsoon »

Maybe if I was a more convincing player, I could do something here, but I'm really not, and I've learned that walling up against a global townread solely out of ego often gets me lynched, which is something I wanted to avoid out of role consideration here anyway.
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Post Post #5343 (isolation #374) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:49 am

Post by Varsoon »

Well, I say solely out of ego, but I mean a mix of ego, paranoia, and suspicion.
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Post Post #5344 (isolation #375) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:50 am

Post by Varsoon »

I really don't like being jerked around and how the setup shook out, it was like a fucking nightmare specifically designed to jerk me around
OF COURSE I would be kept alive all the way through a LYLO I could literally never win.
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Post Post #5346 (isolation #376) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:53 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 232, Varsoon wrote:I'm fucking sick of people positioning my play as something they can't possibly engage with because of out of game reasons.
If I'm that much of a cancer that people can't stand to play with me because I play in SUCH A FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT WAY or whatever the shit
I'll just stop signing up for games or something, goddamn
UNVOTE:
This whole thing pisses me off.
Legitimately disgusted that I had a correct scumread on Shoshin and this shit is what led me to backing off from it
I think I'm just not going to sign up for games anymore, or
like
The second someone pulls this bullshit, I'm going to hard replace.
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Post Post #5347 (isolation #377) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:55 am

Post by Varsoon »

She didn't 'make' anything.
And you say she wasn't called out when I LITERALLY CALLED HER OUT
I had a hard scumread on Shoshin AND cased out out VERY EARLY D1
And plenty of people, largely out of meta-gut that was soft-tricked because of multiball, didn't agree.
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Post Post #5348 (isolation #378) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:55 am

Post by Varsoon »

I was right, too, but then me having a scumread there was postured as 'out of game' cancer so I backed off from it because I didn't want to ruin another fucking game
So no.
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Post Post #5349 (isolation #379) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:56 am

Post by Varsoon »

This whole fucking thing pisses me off.
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Post Post #5355 (isolation #380) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:08 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 5350, the worst wrote:By that metric I'm not sure how anyone can be a good third party tbh, but I think this is the point where it's best I stop engaging because I'm pretty lacking in experience here.

Tbh I think this game is evidence that you have a strong towngame and good reads. if you feel this strongly again imo it's all the more reason you whole back yourself on this stuff.

Having a sound PoE in a multiball game and scumreading widely townread scum is impressive as fuck.
The irony of this is that the last time I backed myself in this exact sort of situation where someone positioned my aggro as out-of-game influenced, I was baited into getting so frustrated with their position that I spouted enough vitriol to catch a signup ban and eat a D1 lynch AND the person I was pushing ended up being town anyway.
So, nah.

I'm just shit at this game.
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Post Post #5356 (isolation #381) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:10 am

Post by Varsoon »

I get far too involved, far too upset, and far too passionate about it, especially when setup design is literally hand-crafted to ruin me.
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Post Post #5358 (isolation #382) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:13 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 2876, Varsoon wrote:You haven't left an impact on me so far D2 is what I mean by 'not around'. I guess it's a cynical 'not around'--like you're not around in my head/perspective?
You're not townleading like you were D1, imo.
I don't think it makes you scum, I just think your confidence is shaken.

Why do you think that a game that's literally got two deaths on N1, with a town even-Vig and PGO, with SPECIFIC FLAVOR FOR THEIR KILLS, all of which who have been TOWN and TERRAN, based on a franchise known for its multifactional intrigue and warfare, isn't multiball?
How is this not connecting for you, Shoshin?

P-EDIT:
I'm not expecting you to suck. I thought you'd be doing good because you actually are a good player.
I think your reads are either heavily wrong because you refused to consider multiball in D1 reads and you haven't re-evaluated OR you're scum.
I'm trying to hash that out.
I think Town Shoshin is far less likely to be stubborn about this being multiball, though, and would be quick to re-assess.
That's why I'm trying to beat you over the head with it because
Honestly
You're my best chances as winning this if you're town.
You're a lot better at coming to conclusions about alignments than I am, especially in larger games.
Oh hey look another moment when I was right and I backed off from it because Shoshin positioned it as out-of-game 'you just think I suck/expecting me to suck'
Yaaay
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Post Post #5360 (isolation #383) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:14 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 5357, the worst wrote:You know you better than I know you, but I definitely think you're undervaluing your skills a fair bit. keeping frustration in check is a bitch, though. it's so easy to get frustrated in mafia.
Yeah
It's like
When I back down because I know my aggro will erupt, I'm wrong and shouldn't have backed away
When I don't back down, I get scumread for it and even catch bans
so

I'm the problem
:/
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Post Post #5361 (isolation #384) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:15 am

Post by Varsoon »

But yeah, the worst, congrats on driving your scumteam to victory.
I know that our PRs and Kokichi's play made it pretty easy for you but, honestly, I think Kokichi only did that D3 IC gambit because of me, which makes me feel that much more responsible for us losing.
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Post Post #5362 (isolation #385) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:16 am

Post by Varsoon »

In post 3162, Varsoon wrote:Yeah actually
VOTE: Keyser
I don't buy the claim as town.
Gunsmith works perfectly fine as an anti-town role since we're confirmed to have a Vigilante and a PGO.
Lynch this.
In post 3051, Varsoon wrote:
Really important shit if I die tonight, but I'm sure you numbskulls will completely not listen to me:

Performer is very likely scum with that claim.
If Kokichi isn't confirmed as town, he is confirmed as scum.
Look really really close at what I've posted today. It'll serve as your roadmap to scum.
Don't let this be another TAZ.
Jesus
Like seriously
Ugh
Fuck I suck at this
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Post Post #5366 (isolation #386) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:20 am

Post by Varsoon »

Yeah, look, I think, in general, town played weakly and scum skirted out and grabbed the win for it.
Even if I was right, I didn't put my foot down because the whole Shoshin thing wrecked my confidence and other out-of-game shit made me really not want to confidently push anything because it could mean my site-ban got escalated to something harsher.
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Post Post #5368 (isolation #387) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:22 am

Post by Varsoon »

Anyway, basically everything I wrote here still stands:
In post 3749, Varsoon wrote:I'll still probably mod but I think I'm awful at the actual game of mafia.
Like particularly game-throwingly bad.
In post 3752, Varsoon wrote:I'll be around but I've got no conviction.
It annoys me.
I'm town but I don't even read all of everyone's posts.
I skim so much content and generally don't engage or make efforts at game solving.
I like to boast when I luck out on a read but that's all empty showboating.
There's nothing worse than knowing that I'm not doing enough and that other people might lose the game because I can't feel the urgency to commit more.
I feel like I'm awful at analysis.
I get so biased and caught up in 'what-if' scenarios.
And when I do think someone is scum, I'll entrench so hard it ruins the game and hard-flavors everyone's perceptions.
I've been trying to get better but it feels fruitless.
I hate this struggle, being in games but being a liability and a sham.
I hate when I think I have something figured out but everyone else just kinda doesn't agree.
I hate how personally invested I get in games I'm only even half-reading.
I hate how when I get really invested like that, I ad-hom and lash out and bias how I read players.
I think it's never been helpful for town, not once.
I couldn't even tell you all the living players in this game.
I outright forgot Irrelephant was one of the players killed.

I'm sorry to let everyone else down like this.
I won't do it again.
In post 3753, Varsoon wrote:I'm bad at playing with others and horrible at solving on my own. I'm not really cut out for it.
I really like mafia. I like this big rhetorical game of trying to solve alignments, find out who your allies really are, etc.
I think it's made needlessly frustrating by multiball, though. That's what really destroys me.
That and setups designed in a way meant to make me come to wrong conclusions.
And it feels like this is all of that.
I can't stand it.
In post 3754, Varsoon wrote:A good player is able to grow beyond their faults, trust when they need to, analyze the rhetoric, find scum, obv-town, and lead weaker players.
I don't think I can really do any of that.
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Post Post #5385 (isolation #388) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:45 am

Post by Varsoon »

Shoshin--why did you repeatedly ground my criticism of your play as personal issues?
And can you please never do so again?
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Post Post #5390 (isolation #389) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:38 am

Post by Varsoon »

Ay then pre-in me for it
None of dat nonsense pls and thx
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Post Post #5392 (isolation #390) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:39 am

Post by Varsoon »

If you'll have me, I mean
Sorry for being such a grump
I'm not a morning person and waking up this the loss here really soured my grapes
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Post Post #5394 (isolation #391) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:54 am

Post by Varsoon »

I've pretty much learned that it's best to just build wincons around auto-success when they've got the numbers
Like, yeah, sure, scum COULD bus, but that just leads to playing out days that are unnecessary.

P-EDIT:
Ah, wish you would've taken into consideration the fact that since the scum side knew the role counterparts, they'd be looking to bait them, but that'd also make a soft-claim of flavor-informed look hard suspicious to the town who are flavor-informed, too.
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Post Post #5396 (isolation #392) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:10 am

Post by Varsoon »

Yeah it really bothered me when I realized Nancy was highly likely town and that if my role had worthwhile utility, I had just compromised it.
But even outting my role couldn't save us. Hm. :/

Kokichi, never fake an IC claim again and I won't either, okay?
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Post Post #5401 (isolation #393) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:23 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Welp.
The next time someone tries to emotionally manipulate me in order to get me to back down from a wagon, I will have absolutely no sympathy, and if I hurt their feelings, guess it's tough shit.
Fucking awful, but I guess that's how it has to be thanks to some people.
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