Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[the worst]

if it's {Performer, Keyser, Nancy} there is no way I can stop the nightkill. if it's {Performer, Keyser, Varsoon} Nancy and I can do it together.

I've never wanted to trust someone this much in a mafia game before like, ever

[the worst]

are you softing what I think you're softing?

[the worst]

Keys = Perf ~ lockscum
{Nancy, Varsoon} has to contain the last scum.

basically: do you think we can win tonight?

[the worst]

groupscum have 50% control on the votes. we can't get a red flip today unless they bus - I think Keyser has softconfirmed they're not intending to bus.

[the worst]

My third eye is opening

[the worst]

Keys/Nancy/Varsoon?

[the worst]

assuming Performer flips red what's your final PoE? sorry for the earlyposting in 4981, that was my list of people who HAS to contain the last wolf.

[the worst]

I'm a bit frozen right now because I have this like insidious paranoia that you steered us onto the Mitillos lynch yesterday in order to protect Keys and Perf.

[the worst]

If that's the solve we've already lost, and I struggle to see you as groupscum here independently

pedit: yeah I understand. just like the only theory I have right now is frightening.

[the worst]

what has you locktown on me?

[the worst]

No, I'm town.

[the worst]

VOTE: Performer
yeah just came around.

[the worst]

@nancy, I will block keyser tonight. If you're town please block Varsoon. I think it's our last chance.

[the worst]

UNVOTE: I'll be voting Perf 100%.

[the worst]

who else?

[the worst]

Nancy who did you block and will you please block Varsoon tonight?

[the worst]

VOTE: Performer
#teamshoshin let's do this

[the worst]

I think this has to be groupscum but BLOCK VARSOON TONIGHT no matter what. I can't believe how much I'm risking on this setup having two nearly-identical town power roles.

[the worst]

Performer is hammered.

[the worst]

Yeah he's hammered. L+1 him if you want.

Don't worry about SK paranoia too much. I feel like I can see the entire game rn and we could actually be on a path to flipping the table on this.

[the worst]

Waht

[the worst]

Shoshin

[the worst]

rrrhfgfgggvhhhhfhh

[the worst]

there's no way Nancy deviated from the plan yesterday. :/ Shoshin are we fucked?

[the worst]

Why the fuck would I block you? I blocked Keyser

[the worst]

I don't understand how Nancy was shot unless the zerg just.. have gunshot flavour for the fuck of it. Also this means you and Keyser were roleblocked last night unless Nancy game threw and she does NOT gamethrow this close to turning things around

[the worst]

VOTE: Shoshin Zerg nk had to be Shoshin. I can't believe I fell for a plan to turn things around when scum probably already controlled the vote.

[the worst]

Why the hell would I roleblock you when there's 5 people alive and 2 zerg left and you've been FPSing to try and turn this around? that makes exactly no sense

[the worst]

VOTE: Shoshin Zerg nk had to be Shoshin. I can't believe I fell for a plan to turn things around when scum probably already controlled the vote.

This is unbelievable. I'm never scum here, the worst. You should know this.

colour me extremely surprised but I see no other alternative unless it's like. Varsoon is a strongman or Nancy decided not to go with the plan.

[the worst]

UNVOTE:
wait

Pedit: Shoshin unvote and wait a sec

[the worst]

there's something in the back of my mind kike there might be an unclaimed bus driver / non-witch redirector / something and I can't remember if Mitillos' flip cleared that

[the worst]

scum bussed Performer yesterday, 100%. and I don't understand why
and I don't understand what you were softing and if it was a gambit by scum!Shoshin it was brillaint

[the worst]

okay if we have a scum redirector or bus driver they could have redirected like. idfk. you and Varsoon or sometbing but if it was Keyser (claimed scum with Performer) he would have been blocked by me anyway and if it was Varsoon himself he would have been blocked by Nancy

[the worst]

what are you then? I have a hunch about what you claimed yesterday and I think we softer through it together

[the worst]

kills resolve last in NAR though, her block Almost definitely resolved.

[the worst]

absolutely not. Nancy blocked Varsoon and I blocked Keyser. there's only one person who's night action isn't accounted before and you've come into the thread claiming to be roleblocked which isn't possible unless Nancy gamethrew

[the worst]

or there was a full blown nexus last night. :/

Varsoon - you claimed spy
I'm a Non-Consecutive-Night roleblocker
Keyser claimed even night gunsmith
Shoshin hasn't claimed but I think I know

[the worst]

Once again, my role results were that NANCY was TARGETED by the ZERG kill.
If that helps anything?

it's OK, we're in either

2 zerg vs. 2 town
OR
2 zerg vs. 1 tp vs. 1 town

[the worst]

Shoshin why didn't you prove your role last night?

[the worst]

I don't understand how it's possible for you to have been blocked :/

[the worst]

There's a 0% chance Nancy didn't target Varsoon last night now she's flipped town. I targeted keyser. that's 4/5 slots accounted for...

[the worst]

Vars do you have any night actions which are confirmable/can confirm a roleblock?

[the worst]

That's the nature of mafia. Either you were redirected or something else happened that we don't understand.

I'm not scum. And you know I'm not.

I did NOT shoot Nancy. Why the fuck would I do that? Think about it, the worst.

it has to be mechanical. the same reason you're setting me up as Keyser's partner; you can't use your role with roleblockers around and I think you're primed to win no matter who we lynch today.

[the worst]

either like.. Varsoon is a mafia strongman or there's a mafia nexus? un which case town had a fucking ridiculous amount of power, or you're scum.

[the worst]

Spy is the town of Salem version of that role

[the worst]

I'm just gonna drop it here:

I think Shoshin is softing pyromaniac

[the worst]

don't worry yoh can't be much worse than me

[the worst]

well said

[the worst]

eh I'm voteparking here. if it's Keys/Varsoon Vars has pocketed me viciously accidentally

VOTE: Shoshin

[the worst]

I think we're fucked anyway so may as well go out squeezing the deepscum right!

[the worst]

it's literally not Keys and I
it's Keys and Shoshin

Varsoon is Vaxkiller v2

[the worst]

mmmkay it was worth a shot to see if vars was paying attention

Shoshin is a third party arsonist. Her wincon is incompatible with both town and zerg

[the worst]

Varsoon is locktown

[the worst]

Vars before you go: if we get 2 votes on Keys today there is never a hammer.

pedit: you lose if you don't

[the worst]

ye

[the worst]

you don't lynch Shoshin
she ignites tonight

everyone dies except her

[the worst]

Keys/Nancy/Varsoon?

Yeah, for sure. Performer/Nancy/Varsoon is plausible. Performer/Key/Nancy is plausible. Performer/Key/Varsoon is plausible.

I think this was the crumb zzz

[the worst]

The only way I win is to eliminate all non-town killing roles
The only info I know for sure is Zerg still has a killing role.
So I gotta hit that.

we have 2
Shoshin is a third

[the worst]

you've both been rolecopped btw so there's.... not much left in this game at this point.....

[the worst]

it's either nolynch or lynch Shoshin

[the worst]

lmao

[the worst]

actually not remotely, we were considering n1'ing you because it's impossible to predict your read trajectory but after we realised you'd get your full info night we just went eh and chose mechanical kills

[the worst]

VOTE: no lynch

[the worst]

luv u 2 Varsoon

[the worst]

it happens man

[the worst]

Varsoon, I'm a Ghost. I have a 1-shot NUKE. It allows me to kill 2 players in a single night.

I'm town.

the worst is trying to gambit a win here because he knows town wins this if we no lynch.

Please trust me, Varsoon. It's your only chance to win this and we WILL win this. I promise you. And we can be friends and talk about this crazy game for the rest of our lives.

NUKE is the flavour for your ignition activation. also the feeling is mutual; when I saw your role I nearly fell out of my chair.

[the worst]

you can try except you're not town

pedit: I'm chill w/ waiting 7 days

[the worst]

oo explain away

[the worst]

please all vote fast nights I need this over for mental health reasons

[the worst]

VOTE: no lynch in case

[the worst]

so did we

[the worst]

I'm not actually gated btw

[the worst]

I knew I got doused by blocking you last night. hell of a risk.

[the worst]

also the claim was very good but there's no way you'd know you were blocked unless you tried to shoot nancy/keys I guess

[the worst]

actually vars/keys yikes

[the worst]

Keyser #goodposting

[the worst]

thanks for modding Krazy.
gg all. this was an absolute blast.

[the worst]

I made a few key mistakes that lost me this game. Never in my life did I anticipate that Mitillos would flip third party or that he'd have some weird suicidal winning role. Massive error on my part. Second error, not realizing the worst was scum after he kept saying Mitillos was third party. That was a slip imo the worst - I actually thought about you being scum as a result but just shrugged it off, thinking it wouldn't matter. Two big errors on my part.

basically I was ready to scumclaim in 8p; we controlled the vote and you were the only unknown (we were ready to rolecop you then which was imo your #1 downfall -- but even that is because we thought you were like, a glimmer of hope for town).

did not see Mitillos doing what he did coming. I wish we could have won with you.

[the worst]

yeah, I didn't want to if I could avoid it.

[the worst]

I nommed you for best third party off this. I hope that's not an insult to your towngame (which is also sensational) but.. the feeling when I saw us get a "third party arsonist" result on your rolecop is not a feeling I've had before in mafia.

[the worst]

You were super obvious town. It was kinda hilarious actually.

QFFFFTTTTTT

[the worst]

yeah I agree tbh

the early townblock was reminiscent of echo bay grits seo. if taly were here he'd had have slapped me

[the worst]

it's weirdly close to 33/33/33 I think? without checking it?
don't forget town lost some very useful power roles for stupid reasons

would be interested to hear mastina's take. I kinda wonder if it's closer to 40/30/30

fwiw the three core alignments (town/zerg/shoshin) had mutually exclusive wincons

[the worst]

Woah how did you douse him n1?

[the worst]

I was bulletproof.

thought you were only immune to zerg nks. guess I was overthinking how to kill you

[the worst]

Very stupid reasons & yes that’s true
Though Shoshin could win with mafia if it was 1v1 I think?

Nah I LAMENTED this in the scum pt. we needed simple majority (3/5, 2/3, 1/1) where she needed to be one of the f2.

[the worst]

I was devastated to roll scum in this list. then I saw my scumbuddies names and was filled with WIM.

[the worst]

oh yeah moral of the story

stop talking
stop asking questions
stop arguing

blindly sheep not_mafia

[the worst]

I didn't really appreciate being told to rep out all the same. I was dead honest travelling until late December and didn't have time to get into lengthy real-times which was the context to that conversation.

I made as much effort as I could before getting back and I'm happy with the way I conducted myself there.

eh, mislynch me for being busy next time we play. I'm ready.

[the worst]

oh god yeah Kokichi scum MVP unironically

[the worst]

I didn't really appreciate being told to rep out all the same. I was dead honest travelling until late December and didn't have time to get into lengthy real-times which was the context to that conversation.

I made as much effort as I could before getting back and I'm happy with the way I conducted myself there.

eh, mislynch me for being busy next time we play. I'm ready.

Well, sorry-not sorry. You 100% deserved that after telling me, you couldn’t properly sort me until mid-December and if you or anyone else ever tries that gambit on me again, I 100% promise to have the exact same response to that.

I know you were traveling but you scumclaimed with that slip. Don’t even try to pull that injured party crap here.

I don't pull injured party crap.

Try to meta me next time I can't real-time with you properly because I'm mobileposting while lost in Hanoi. I'll flip green.

That said I don't need an apology Just wanted you to know how I felt outside of being a wolf.

[the worst]

Heh, in 8p I was thinking if I were town I'd fakeclaim witch. great (or krazy?) minds.

[the worst]

Subject: The Cow Level -- Starcraft Dead/Spectator Thread

yeah. this game is a great example of why you dont let people get away with terrible hammers
scum did it literally every day
and town never punished them

#veryveryverygoodposting

[the worst]

I don't think that the setup is 50:25:25 town:scum:arsonist, but 33:33:33 town:scum:arsonist is more in the zone of where I'd put it, and that is an acceptable definition of balanced...just a significantly swingy-as-fuck definition of it.

Swingy, but balanced, passes any review I'd make.

I think this is important; town had a LOT of power; Mitillos' n1 action was lucky as shit (8.3% chance of nuking the vig from what should have been a 0.76% chance of directing the vig into the PGO blindly is.....definitely a punishment for misplaying by instantly claiming, but not an utterly dire one. Mitillos still hit the jackpot). we lucked in rolecopping Xtoxm, but not too badly as I knew there was very likely a low priority jailkeeper. the rest was sheer misplays. my weakest moment d1 was my treatment of NM and that wasn't picked up on. Kokichi misplayed horrifically and allowed himself to get within hammer range in pseudo LyLo. we are in a kinda site meta of punishing early claims but I don't think rel's early claim was a complete misplay. just turned Mitillos' optimal play from winning the lottery to a 1d12.

And the power Shoshin's role had made me smile when I saw it. That's what a balanced tp role should be. not an immortal god that shoots laserbeams out of its eyes, but hard to wipe out via rand. if one more thing went against us this game, Shoshin would have won this through sheer good dayplay. EOD. insane huge credit to you, Krazy and schadd_ on this. This is the kind of shit we should be seeing more of wrt third parties (shout-out to Pine's 1sbp multitasking 2shot tracking serial killer in project Pinecone).

I think if you asked a random person on the street with a year's mafia experience to give you their perfect 3p scumteam you'd >rand get the answer "roleblocker, a godfather, rolecop". it's a nice, tidy, useful team. but if you told them you're going up against a triplevoting innocent child, a gated vig/doc/rolestopping jk an ungated AC/roleblocker and someone who finds out half of the shit they do at night and so on and ao forth they'd probably reflexively puke. our roles IMPLYING the existence of a Jailkeeper & AC is just clever design imo, and via mod WIFOM it doesn't like... inform us unreasonably. it's just a trigger of stuff to look out for.

Mitillos' role as a de facto traitor-who-could-betray-us was a coinflip away from being a negative utility. his wincon was surviving 3 days, then going to have a snooze for his shiny c. 67% winrate; haven't run calcs based on mountainous or anything but it's probably higher than the other 3 factions' ev

┐(´д｀)┌
I know I'm gonna be anti-"scumsided" naturally because I played my hardest, and I think Keyser and Performer were absolutely wonderful to work with (the best scumteam I've scummed with (though there are some close seconds )). but like this is a conversation I remember seeing in Earthbound post-game and being like ".....oof yeah that was a cheap win" and that's not a feeling I have here.

I liked this setup. I would have liked being town in this setup even more. I would have liked being the witch, and I would have liked being the arso.

I don't often look at a setup and feel this way. even most of the opens I love leave me feeling like "fuck I'd hate to rand _____ here"

[the worst]

wow that's a lot more candid than I usually am post-game... if anyone feels offended hmu because I don't mean to imply anyone played poorly here. it's the kind of setup that's impossible to account for all possible factors in; there were moves made that were like technical misplays but incredibly difficult to anticipate.

I think there's a lesson to be learned wrt Kokichi's actions here. it was a gambit and I fucking lurve gambits and he nearly swung me into the range where a lack of quickhammer would have confscummed me. imo he got too attached to the gambit and stopped reading the gamestate.

[the worst]

NM fucking town MVP
nqa

[the worst]

I actually to date don't totally understand the nk flavour stuff either but bulletproof = immune to bullets except also Shoshin was bulletproof and lol immune to zerg kills as well so it's... I think probably best to treat it as flavour fun and not focus on too much on who made the kill (like normal vig games) probably...

what information did you think was too much out of interest?

[the worst]

btw I recognized tw’s Xtoxm read was bs from it not fitting what xtoxm was showing in my game that recently ended

[the worst]

that's pretty fair. Tbf what keyser claimed was more or less what we were informed wrt the witch; it was a faux traitor & we didn't know/parse that they could just..side with another unknown third party

Shoshin was probably better favoured by information than we were (which I kinda like in a roundabout way)

pedit: hey I'm not gross and my brain is TINY :<

[the worst]

Thank you very much. thwt means a lot to me coming from you (the evolution of your scumplay entering jjh's game is some of the most impressive scumwork I've ever seen, hands down). I'll definitely take it.

pedit: that was secretly my favourite cheeky scumfuck moment in the entire game, also casually referring to myself accidentally getting involved in a scum quickhammer

[the worst]

pretty much.... i mess with nauci and got the FORCY

[the worst]

(I hope that rhymes)

[the worst]

But we lynched me instead.

You were just starting to get towny.... the hammer was there, calling my name... you were good towards the end of that phase, though. I think your towngame is pretty formidable and if you'd found other people who were stressed by the gamestate the same way you were, things would've gone interestingly.

pedit: I nearly quoted that post when I 1v1'd Shoshin in 4p Varsoon is so good.

[the worst]

I'm probably not inclined to take back the fact I thought Shoshin's third party play here was phenomenal. She emulated her towngame perfectly. Her intensity

increased

when the going got town (previous scum!Shoshin absolutely froze under pressure). From a meta pov, I'd have cleared her here every day of the week.

She correctly townsided where she needed to but floated out of townsiding when it was needed (even though she was immune to the zerg nightkill, it didn't occur to us to nk her once).

When crunch time came and the do or die moment was there, she capably picked the correct path to push her own wincon while pocketing like. basically the whole town. (she thought I was pocketed town and sorted to me which imo was her sole shortfall).

setup grievances are understood; this type of setup appeals to me a lot more than anything like... more role-madnessy. but I can definitely understand how it presents as underwhelming compared to like a lot of the super mega crazy role madness games out there.

I'd still give Shoshin massive credit any day of the week. (actually there are a few people who I think played spectacularly)

[the worst]

Also, if scum were going to win on a no-lynch yesterday, then why was the game day even run at all?

a win condition hadn't been met; arso/zerg are mutually exclusive. Shoshin had zergscum ignited. If we didn't lynch we woulda outed ourselves and she could have won.

[the worst]

By that metric I'm not sure how anyone can be a good third party tbh, but I think this is the point where it's best I stop engaging because I'm pretty lacking in experience here.

Tbh I think this game is evidence that you have a strong towngame and good reads. if you feel this strongly again imo it's all the more reason you whole back yourself on this stuff.

Having a sound PoE in a multiball game and scumreading widely townread scum is impressive as fuck.

[the worst]

NM had me nailed d1 here; you had Shoshin nailed d1 here. I think either of you digging in your heels harder and insisting people question themselves harder and harder could have changed a lot.

If people don't wanna engage with you because of out of game reasons, fuck em

I think there was a world where a secondary townblock formed around {you, Xtoxm} earlier on fwiw. both of you mutually townread each other but I think the way you backed off such a strong read on Shoshin did a bit of harm to the momentum.

I'm just kinda stream of consciousness posting because like.. you were legitimately a force to be reckoned with day one (which I didn't anticipate) :/ I don't think it's fair for you to be so harsh on yourself. performer suggested you as a n1 kill in like, fucking pregame

[the worst]

You did play well, given the caveat in your role pm. I'm just still a little bit salty because I wanted you alive longer. your night actions were GOAT.

[the worst]

You know you better than I know you, but I definitely think you're undervaluing your skills a fair bit. keeping frustration in check is a bitch, though. it's so easy to get frustrated in mafia.

[the worst]

Definitely don't feel responsible for how that LyLo went. the gambit was fantastic on principle (he was one activation and one fewer vote away from confscumming me, and that's not lost on me). Actually Kokichi stopped reading the gamestate while you were reading it perfectly. You're very far from responsible imo.

[the worst]

@Keyser: I was actually responding to tw (who also still needs to read my post to him in the dead thread), but thanks all the same.

Oh I read the posts btw; I was originally gonna ask if you use discord or anything so I could pick your brain but it makes a lot of sense to me now. Sorry I haven't reacted too much yet; just mulling it over a little. It's kinda unfair of me to assume you'd stick around for endgame when you'd already like fulfilled your wincon to a 80%+ probability level

[the worst]

Yeah, look, I think, in general, town played weakly and scum skirted out and grabbed the win for it.
Even if I was right, I didn't put my foot down because the whole Shoshin thing wrecked my confidence and other out-of-game shit made me really not want to confidently push anything because it could mean my site-ban got escalated to something harsher.

That's definitely a fair generalisation I think. town just didn't find itself without scum intervention.

[the worst]

yeah we straight up thought she was softing witch with uuuhhhhhh

[the worst]

@Mitillos
Are you the witch?
There are 3 Zerg left, we can win together.
If you don't out yourself, you'll probably be lynched.

lol...

[the worst]

amusingly some mafia communities use FPS to refer to "fancy player syndrome" which is where a player like... openly plays to some kinda agenda which is often extravagant to their actual role (e.g. vt claiming TPR to try and bait a night kill, etc., etc.)

quite appropriate

NM just has fairly good reads tho

[the worst]

I mean normal NM iso is

[great gif here]

your mum

VOTE: someone

hey budy why are you voting someone

because they're scum

someone is scum




I think you and NM are very different people

[the worst]

....... :<

[the worst]

no judg pls

[the worst]

i very very very seriously did not expect my vote to go down that badly. i was getting ready for work and spam-refreshing the page with UNVOTE: on my clipboard for like nearly an hour

In retrospect this is actually really hilarious
Shades of Natalie Anderson in Survivor 29, winning while “accidentally” double-crossing her alliance (“oops!!”)