Newbie 1911 - Game Over

[Egix96]

VOTE: YyottaCat
Because raisins.

Hi everyone.

[Egix96]

I think we should all endeavor to be as active as possible this game. The only real way we are going to snuff out any scumbags is either through a lucky night action or by analyzing what people are saying. We can't analyze anything if nobody is talking.

To that end, we really need to lynch somebody by the end of the day, but hopefully take as much of the day as we can before we decide who to lynch. If we don't lynch anybody, it just means a slow death for town. We need things to happen. Inaction = Mafia wins.

Seems like good advice at first, but... there's something about the way this post is written that makes it all seem a bit forced. It's as if you're writing a bunch of words just to try and grab some free towncred.

Let's see where this goes:

UNVOTE: Yyotta

VOTE: Blurry

[Egix96]

Seems like good advice at first, but... there's something about the way this post is written that makes it all seem a bit forced. It's as if you're writing a bunch of words just to try and grab some free towncred.

Let's see where this goes:

So your logic behind your scum read is, this guy is giving town advice, so he must be scum? Care to explain the logic behind that assumption? Why would I, if I'm mafia, try and spur discussion when none had happened yet? I feel like that would be a pretty poor play. I didn't write what I did to up townie-cred, I did it because nobody was saying anything interesting and a day had passed.

That's not quite it.
The thing is, the initial impression I got from reading that post was that, on the surface, it seemed innocent enough, but at some points you seemed to be using redundant phrasing/using more words than necessary. That's what seemed forced about it.
There's nothing stopping scum from siding with the town if they think it will benefit them in the long run. I don't think it's a poor play at all.

[Egix96]

also wow you guys really start shit quickly now, rvs was practically non existent... or is that just meta now that we get in and out as quickly as possible? haven’t played in for fuckin ever

Are we playing the same game?
Jokes aside, this is so far the slowest a game has ever started for me.

From what I've seen, "whether I'm scum or not" arguments usually come from scum.

Where have you seen such arguments before? On this site, or elsewhere?

[Egix96]

All right, I'm back. Wow, has it really been 3 days since I last posted? Goodness me, time sure does fly.

First things first:

UNVOTE: Blurry

Okay, this is gonna be a wall-a-day kind of post since quite a lot has been posted since my last visit and I want to keep everything in one post.

41 - Okay, good to know. I was just curious and thinking you might have read some other games here.

44 -
"So, my reasoning for posting that "towniecred" post was because I've played this game once on another forum, and that game most town players just lurked. Not only was it not fun when nobody was really involved, but, because town was just filled with lurkers they lost."
Again, that's good to know. There's actually a game I've read on a random other site that had that exact problem, so I can definitely understand what you're talking about here!

"You guys are really nitpicky about wording in a way that I don't think is relevant." To be fair though, that one post of yours did indeed give me "this seems forced" vibes, but at the same time I didn't have much else to go on so I don't regret voting you for it at all.

"I don't think eqix pushing on the first person is a scummy move, could just as likely be trying to fish for information." This is correct

49 - I generally like the look of this post. Makes a good point that Echo tunnelling on Blurry is not a good look. And yes, I agree that hammering early is virtually never a good idea on Day 1.

51 - Not sure how you can come to that conclusion that quickly and based on just one post. Even if it's because you already had a "wild guess" at the scum team.

52 Personally I think it's still a bit too early in the game to be making reads lists, especially when you can't yet give anyone anything more than a slight lean either way. NAI post overall though.

56 - I'm not really seeing that. Could you clarify/elaborate maybe? @Nikk

63 - I'm sure the game will kick into a higher gear at some point, based on my prior experience with Newbie Games. Just have to be patient.

68 - Someone's possibly already answered this, but:
TvT = town versus town
Nullscum = very slight scum lean. Short for "null, leaning scum"

69 - No, not just for that.

70 - "if somebody actually lynches you this early on they're confirmed hung the next day" You say that, but then you say you doubt he's town, and then you vote him.
The bit I've quoted there seems to assume that he flips town, so... I'm not liking the apparent self-contradiction.

73 - Admittedly you do have two very valid points there though.

77 - I agree that #75 could be seen as AtE, but not #71. Post-slank slank cover is what I would class that as

78 - I get that you think they're the scumteam, but explaining to another player what terms mean is in itself NAI.

All right, now I should be all up to date. I can see that Blurry has just taken Echo away from L-1 so for now I'll say my vote goes on Echo in spirit only.

[Egix96]

You've been chiming in with little things here and there, but not contributing a ton or sharing your thoughts extensively. Read based off just gut, but it's still there. No need to get defensive.

Also sorry about the knees.

I find it strange that you put Nikk as "least scummy" even though "chiming in with little things here and there, but not contributing a ton" is something that could be seen as active lurking, which is something usually associated with scum.

[Egix96]

I don't like flooding people with questions, but I think it is worth asking. Why are people afraid to hold a lynch at L-1? And what does that say about the alignment of the players who specifically don't want it?

The main problem with keeping someone at L-1 in the early game is that there's always that small chance that someone will hammer by accident. (There's actually a game I was in that ended very recently where there were a couple of such "lolhammers"!)

As for what it says about alignments... I personally don't think that preventing a hammer or L-1 is alignment-indicative in itself, but if two different people go about it in a different way it could be because of them being different alignments, or maybe not. I wouldn't say it's a particularly strong tell.

[Egix96]

VOTE: Egix96

Spicy.

[Egix96]

I completely agree with Egix's reasoning here, except for one thing: forget accidental hammers, scum, especially the lynchee, could hammer at L-1 to deny us the rest of the day for discussion. I really feel like that as IC, you should know full well about these possibilities. I do get why you still have your vote on Blurry, especially since that is now the only vote on him, so I'll leave you as a scumlean. Idk maybe you just like taking chances.

That's also a good point to make, but:
- If a scum lolhammers a townie in order to end the day early, the hammerer will likely be lynched next.
- If a scum self-hammers or they get hammered by their own buddy, that's still one-half of the scumteam dying in a game with two scums. So it's a big risk.

Usually, a scum will only get quickhammered (whether by their own hand, or that of a buddy) if they are outed, or at least if there's essentially no chance of anyone else being lynched.

Do you really think that scum!Echo would give up this easily?

[Egix96]

Game's stagnant. If we don't have any more questions or accusations to make, I suggest we lynch EV and move on to D2.

I can help with that.

VOTE: EchoVision

L - 1

I completely agree with Egix's reasoning here, except for one thing: forget accidental hammers, scum, especially the lynchee, could hammer at L-1 to deny us the rest of the day for discussion. I really feel like that as IC, you should know full well about these possibilities. I do get why you still have your vote on Blurry, especially since that is now the only vote on him, so I'll leave you as a scumlean. Idk maybe you just like taking chances.

That's also a good point to make, but:
- If a scum lolhammers a townie in order to end the day early, the hammerer will likely be lynched next.
- If a scum self-hammers or they get hammered by their own buddy, that's still one-half of the scumteam dying in a game with two scums. So it's a big risk.

Usually, a scum will only get quickhammered (whether by their own hand, or that of a buddy) if they are outed, or at least if there's essentially no chance of anyone else being lynched.

Do you really think that scum!Echo would give up this easily?

to respond to the first point, They could just try to play it off like they're being a dumb noob, but points well taken.

With regard to scum!Echo: how should i know? right now everyone SRs him and it looks like he's already abandoned any semblance of a defense, unlike Blurry when he was in a similar spot. Plus idk Echo's playstyle so idk how he'd behave as scum going down. Other than that how he's acting now looks like how I would imagine that'd be it.

@T-Bone yeah I guess I see your point, particularly taken with Egix's reasoning. I won't SR you over a playstyle difference, and I think that Blurry is a pretty safe place to hold your vote at this point, barring some crazy turbolynch.

- I personally don't think that pretending to be a "dumb noob" is a particularly strong defence, but okay.

- Still, I find it hard to believe that a Semi-Experienced player would seemingly go belly-up as soon as a wagon built up against them. Perhaps if Echo were a first-time player then I would understand (trust me, I've been there) but... something just doesn't seem right here.

[Egix96]

I mean that as in; why would scum willingly offer to hammer themselves?

For the AtE maybe?

[Egix96]

liking mcqueen's intro so far

Yeah. From a quick read of his ISO, I'm getting those town vibes as well.

[Egix96]

I agree that McQueen seems good. It's a very good analysis of the situation, and none of it seems too off to me.

Additionally, the reason I'm not reading Nikk as scum is because it looks like that's just how he talks, with shorter, flippant posts.

Any reason for me not to put my vote on Echo atm?

He's been hammered.

[Egix96]

Okay, so it seems like we have a lead, but Salami's vote on T-Bone has me doubting myself because I have his slot as a possible scum on the EchoVision lynch wagon.

Salami, do you have anything else to say apart from your vote?

[Egix96]

I trust that a townie at L-1 would not self hammer

, so it's not worth being afraid of. If scum self hammers...is that the worst thing in the world?

I trust that a townie at L-1 would not self hammer

VOTE: T-Bone

Newsflash, he didn't self-hammer. So right away you're already making up BS to support your vote.

But let's just say for argument's sake that since Echo was threatened to do it he would have done it. What makes my declaration incorrect, or scum motivated? Why should I, as a townie, be worried that someone else who is also town would self-hammer? Is that the correct way for a member of the town to play? Is there a situation where a townie should ever hammer themselves for the

benefit

of the town in a game like this?

Okay, so it seems like we have a lead, but Salami's vote on T-Bone has me doubting myself because I have his slot as a possible scum on the EchoVision lynch wagon.

Salami, do you have anything else to say apart from your vote?

Is the above really a lead? Because you made this post BEFORE Salami explained the real incriminating reason as to why I might be scum.

Now that it's apparent that Urist got things mixed up, seems not.

[Egix96]

I'll summarize though my stances on Day 1.

I thought it was an odd choice for Blurry to be wagoned for his first post. In the span of about 20 posts Blurry was put to L-1. Okay, to me that seemed like a RVS wagon, so it wasn't important. Two important things happened from my PoV. RainKing puts Blurry at L-1, and Nikk immediately puts a stop to it. This is interesting to me, because again, if Blurry is town, and more importantly if Nikk is town, then he shouldn't be so quick to fear a lynch. Recall that later, Egix declined the same opportunity when I had put Blurry back to L-1.

So Egix, to put this event to bed, why did you decline to remove your vote when I moved Blurry to L-1?

(At that point there were enough votes to lynch)

So to summarize, yeah I found it suspicious that Nikk removed his vote, and so I acted. RainKing also did the same thing later, and that is still an unresolved question for me. Nikk is also gone, so I can't grill him anymore on the subject.

I think this sequence of events was the most important non-lynch event of Day 1, and that's why I go back to it.

So, what do I think of the EchoVision lynch? I thought Echo was iffy. He wasn't my strongest read in either direction. Similar to why I put Blurry to L-1, I threatened to hammer Echo to again, see how people would respond. I wanted to see if Nikk would back off a second time. I did it within minutes of Egix's vote, so I wanted to see if he would back off when I threatened to hammer. Again, what people do when a lynch is about to happen is important. Presumably Egix you were still around at that point.

Were you content if I had gone ahead and hammered EchoVision?

Echo giving up deflated this quite a bit unfortunately by resigning to his lynch. It kinda put the game state into a lassiez faire situation in regards to that lynch.

- Because TRK had already unvoted and Blurry was still my main suspect at the time.

- Yes. Why would I have tried to delay what seemed inevitable? It's not as if we had anything to gain from allowing more time for discussion at that point.

[Egix96]

We lynch T-Bone today and likely TRK tomorrow

People who are town don't say things like this. Because if you were to lynch me, my flip would change the game state. In this case, when I flip town, you want to go ahead and lynch the person you are accusing of being my scumbuddy anyway? How does that work?

Like, it's really easy to say that "someone" could have hammered Blurry on Day 1. Because "someone" is a lot of people. It is a lot harder to justify your stance once you realize that "someone" is one of two people, Salami.

Anyone can do anything is not a good argument. When it boils down to it, that's your argument.

My argument is that Nikk removed his vote because it was the "easy pro-town" thing to do. 'what if someone hammered' is not a sufficient explanation.

Sorry, I'm not asking you to answer for his actions Salami. You're not him, don't feel like I'm trying to make you answer for him.

I'm showing you my thought process. The easy thing to do in that situation for Nikk!scum is to unvote. Yes or no? The best thing for Nikk!scum to do in that situation is unvote. Yes or no?

I'm saying that I think the answer to both those questions are yes, and that's why I was suspicious, and why I wanted to push the issue.

No... I think the easiest thing for a hypothetical Nikk!scum would be to just leave his vote there and hope someone hammers him, either by accident or his scumbuddy intentionally.

I just disagree with you. That's okay.

But because I disagree with you, I did what I did, and I continue to argue what I argue.

What do you think of Urist?

TRK being scum doesn't depend on your alignment, his buddy could easily be someone else. You flipping either town or scum doesn't clear him.

I TR Urist and think he is trying to scumhunt

No, Urist is clearly tunnelling on T-Bone. That's not an effective method of scumhunting at all IMO, and another thing I'm not liking about Urist is that he still kept going even though he admitted that he'd made a mistake.

[Egix96]

Want to see how everyone's feeling about this;

@all You're a compulsive dayvig and has to shoot 2 people today (not the same person twice), who would they be?

You + Salami

[Egix96]

VOTE: PvtUrist

[Egix96]

Ok, that's enough acting insane from me.

N1 action on T-Bone told me he was "Mafia", while the D2 interaction made it clear that his buddy is in either TRK or Egix, of which we have 2 lynches for.

Okay, so this must be why you were tunnelling him...

UNVOTE: Urist

VOTE: T-Bone

L-1

If TB flips town though, Urist is always the next lynch.

[Egix96]

Sorry, I just got here, lemme read up before we hammer

[Egix96]

Yeah, lynch one of us 3, investigate the other two, we can deduce who scum is day 4 if we miss today.

Quick note I'd like to make about this:
Mafia Roleblocker can multitask in this setup, so they can kill one of the PRs while roleblocking the other.

[Egix96]

Okay I'm fine with just going ahead and hammering. Any objections?

[Egix96]

no sir

if town flip im checking blurry

Gah, I knew I shouldn't have told him about the multitasking!

All right then, here goes...

VOTE: Earth Traveler

I just really, really hope this is right...

[Egix96]

Ayy we did it