Open 745: 9:12 [Game Over]

[Slaxx]

Also, now that I’m ISOing you...

What happened in between 181,182, and 183?

You initially said you didn’t have reads and then immediately churned a list out.

[Eyes without a face]

Eyes w/out a Face do you have an abbreviation that you prefer such as EwoF, or Eyes, or Face or anything or does it not matter to you?

also, whats your experience in FM (about how long/how many games)

No preference.

I have good experience in FM, but I would rather not say where or give any more details.

[Slaxx]

Also, now that I’m ISOing you...

What happened in between 181,182, and 183?

You initially said you didn’t have reads and then immediately churned a list out.

181, 182, and 184, my bad.

[Eyes without a face]

Can you explain 2? The more I look at this the more I really don’t like #2.

If Pink Ball is scum and Assassin is town it would be a turning point shifting pressure off scum and unto town. I would rather not have that effect when I'm not sure of either's alignment. I want to let the fame flow naturally without much

unneeded

intervention from me until I know exactly what I'm doing, and I think I do now.

[Eyes without a face]

I think Eragon is very townie

I very much agree, and I don't care if he scum reads me. Your read on me does not affect my read on you. I could say he is wrong in suspecting me, but wrong =/= scum.

[Eyes without a face]

How much mafia experience do you have?

Enough to bypass the newbies queue

[Slaxx]

Can you explain 2? The more I look at this the more I really don’t like #2.

If Pink Ball is scum and Assassin is town it would be a turning point shifting pressure off scum and unto town. I would rather not have that effect when I'm not sure of either's alignment. I want to let the fame flow naturally without much

unneeded

intervention from me until I know exactly what I'm doing, and I think I do now.

But there’s a very real possibility both were scum. Why did you initially assume Assassin was town in that scenario? Especially when you think you have it narrowed down to four.

[kitcat]

Ok, who do you think is going to lolhammer in this game?

@pinkball

Did I specifically said I thought someone could lolhammer? At that moment the game was pretty dead and I would not have been surprised if someone hammered ofrhz without realizing it (not on purpose, I mean. ofrhz was on L-1 too early).

I didn't like this post:

If I wanted to lolhammer I would've done it already. By how the gamestate is right now, having someone at L-1 is too risky IMO.

Because I hadn't gotten the vibe for the most part that this playerlist is the sort of players who might lolhammer except for maybe like vizzy so I was wondering why you were worried about l1. But it makes more sense to me that you were worried about someone hammering without realizing it would be hammer given the gamestate and infrequency of vcs

[kitcat]

VOTE: Athena

Why?

[kitcat]

Seriously though, if you can articulate it, fine, I can defend it. But just saying it, especially after one or two others have, just feels like we are trying to build a narrative that I can’t realistically defend against. Suddenly it’s two days until deadline and we all decide to lynch me for “tone”.

Sorry, not trying to lob accusations that you can't reasonably defend against; I know that people can't really defend against a vague accusation like 'weird tone' and I'm not really expecting you to. It was more for me to note that I was feeling that way and to see if I can try to figure out why.

Not really doing it in concert with other people, more like noting that's how I felt when I read your interaction with Eragon last night.

[Eyes without a face]

So the proper response to that would be “I’m Town”

I didn't say that and I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. However you respond is up to you, but I didn't like the particular response you gave. What's so confusing about this?

Also, people wanted me to try harder and give reads and I did just that. What's wrong with that?

Finally (and this is of most importance to me), why are you making such a fuss about a single vote on you? O am but only one player with one vote, and nobody else is or has been voting you, so what do you have to worry about? In fact, here's your answer: Your overreaction to a mere single vote on you feels over the top and that is what is ponging me hard now.

[kitcat]

I think Eragon is very townie

I very much agree, and I don't care if he scum reads me. Your read on me does not affect my read on you. I could say he is wrong in suspecting me, but wrong =/= scum.

Uh I'm pretty sure his last readslist lists you as null? I don't think he's suspecting you right now?

How much mafia experience do you have?

Enough to bypass the newbies queue

Ok I retract my townpings then

[Eyes without a face]

Also, now that I’m ISOing you...

What happened in between 181,182, and 183?

You initially said you didn’t have reads and then immediately churned a list out.

I don't need to share everything that goes in my mind with anyone before I weigh and reconsider. Would you have felt better if I said I have reads that I wasn't sure of and will have to rethink about them before I posted?

Also you're ignoring 181 was in response to 163, so I read roughly 20 more posts to develop that read list. Do you have a problem with that?

[Slaxx]

So the proper response to that would be “I’m Town”

I didn't say that and I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. However you respond is up to you, but I didn't like the particular response you gave. What's so confusing about this?

Also, people wanted me to try harder and give reads and I did just that. What's wrong with that?

Finally (and this is of most importance to me), why are you making such a fuss about a single vote on you? O am but only one player with one vote, and nobody else is or has been voting you, so what do you have to worry about? In fact, here's your answer: Your overreaction to a mere single vote on you feels over the top and that is what is ponging me hard now.

Yikes.

Your reads list was incredibly opaque and came 19 minutes after you said there wasn’t much content for you to get reads from.

Your vote was really bad, that’s why. I reacted completely reasonably to Eragon having a scumread on me so don’t try to pull that.

[Slaxx]

Also, now that I’m ISOing you...

What happened in between 181,182, and 183?

You initially said you didn’t have reads and then immediately churned a list out.

I don't need to share everything that goes in my mind with anyone before I weigh and reconsider. Would you have felt better if I said I have reads that I wasn't sure of and will have to rethink about them before I posted?

Also you're ignoring 181 was in response to 163, so I read roughly 20 more posts to develop that read list. Do you have a problem with that?

You apparently have the scumteam in four people, I think that warrants some degree of explanation.

[Eyes without a face]

But there’s a very real possibility both were scum. Why did you initially assume Assassin was town in that scenario? Especially when you think you have it narrowed down to four.

This feels like scum caught for the wrong reasons and not finding a way to back off. I assumed one is scum and the other is town and thus didn't vote either because I couldn't tell which is which. I don't think they are both scum because there's no need Assassin to bus his only partner this early.

[Slaxx]

Also, now that I’m ISOing you...

What happened in between 181,182, and 183?

You initially said you didn’t have reads and then immediately churned a list out.

I don't need to share everything that goes in my mind with anyone before I weigh and reconsider. Would you have felt better if I said I have reads that I wasn't sure of and will have to rethink about them before I posted?

Also you're ignoring 181 was in response to 163, so I read roughly 20 more posts to develop that read list. Do you have a problem with that?

So even then, you went from having no reads to having reads in 20 posts? Still makes no sense.

[Slaxx]

But there’s a very real possibility both were scum. Why did you initially assume Assassin was town in that scenario? Especially when you think you have it narrowed down to four.

This feels like scum caught for the wrong reasons and not finding a way to back off. I assumed one is scum and the other is town and thus didn't vote either because I couldn't tell which is which. I don't think they are both scum because there's no need Assassin to bus his only partner this early.

It feels like you need to stop shifting the conversation and answer the question directly.

[Eyes without a face]

But there’s a very real possibility both were scum. Why did you initially assume Assassin was town in that scenario? Especially when you think you have it narrowed down to four.

This feels like scum caught for the wrong reasons and not finding a way to back off. I assumed one is scum and the other is town and thus didn't vote either because I couldn't tell which is which. I don't think they are both scum because there's no need Assassin to bus his only partner this early.

It feels like you need to stop shifting the conversation and answer the question directly.

Did I not? I'll let the other players decide for themselves.

[Slaxx]

But there’s a very real possibility both were scum. Why did you initially assume Assassin was town in that scenario? Especially when you think you have it narrowed down to four.

This feels like scum caught for the wrong reasons and not finding a way to back off. I assumed one is scum and the other is town and thus didn't vote either because I couldn't tell which is which. I don't think they are both scum because there's no need Assassin to bus his only partner this early.

It feels like you need to stop shifting the conversation and answer the question directly.

Wait, I get the last part of what you’re saying. I thought you were still doing snarky hypotheticals.

Still, that’s a bit of a stretch.

[Slaxx]

So, eyes, what 20 posts between 163 and 181 inspired someone slow to get reads to sort most of the playerlist?

[Slaxx]

But there’s a very real possibility both were scum. Why did you initially assume Assassin was town in that scenario? Especially when you think you have it narrowed down to four.

This feels like scum caught for the wrong reasons and not finding a way to back off. I assumed one is scum and the other is town and thus didn't vote either because I couldn't tell which is which. I don't think they are both scum because there's no need Assassin to bus his only partner this early.

If you thought one was scum wouldn’t it have been better to wagon one of them? I believe I was voting SA at that time and Pink had a wagon.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Eragon, I don't have a good enough memory to remember who posted every single post number and I'm not clicking every single one of your links, so if anything in your catchup is directed at me please address it specifically at me. Your reads list at the end of those posts at least gives me an idea but otherwise it's hard to follow where you stand exactly. Hopefully real time interaction will fix that though.

Also, can you summarize your case on Slaxx?

<-Scratch that actually. Your back and forth with him is giving me a good idea of it.

Am I usually slow to develop reads? I guess. There hasn't been much to base any reads on anyway.
Am I planning on doing something to get reads? Like what? I dunno what to do to get reads. It usually develops over time by looking for contradictions in someones posts.
What is it? I just told you. I am waiting for someone to say something that looks like a contradiction to what they said earlier. That's all I can do on day one I guess. I believe we can get more information during the night though so maybe I will have more to say on day two if we are lucky.

Ok, cool. So this can be chalked up to playstyle. That's all I was looking for. Just to be safe though, can you link me your last three games?

3- I don't want it to look like I'm voting kitcat because she's voting me.

Yikes. I mean at first glace this is bad, but putting it in the thread where it didn't need to be kind of shows an openness that I usually associate with town. Slaxx makes a good point though that you didn't really give a good reason to vote him. It kinda feels like overjustifying a PoE vote. And PoE at this stage of the game is kinda unnatural feeling.

2. NGL I have seen scum “pocket” scum before

Hmm, really? Can you give an example?

#49 Are you serious? I didn’t get an answer to my question and SA had posted since then. If anything I should be a townread for the follow up, in means I’m genuinely interested in the answer and not just trying to look busy

Ok maybe that’s a bit much yes, but I still think you wait until it’s obvious he doesn’t respond, then ask.

Cause there’s a good possiblity he just didn’t reach that point in thread and was still catching up.

Actually, my post addressed it. Slaxx, you said "elaborate" and that's what I had done.

Eragon's catchup is bad in my books. The last post, specially, saying that either me or sleepless is scum and the other town, seems like preparing lynches beforehand. I think there's nothing to come to the conclusion that one of us is town and the other one is scum exclusively. We could both be scum, for example. If Sleepless flipped scum, would I become town because of how Sleepless is scumreading me or because of how I reacted to his scumread on me? No, there's nothing of that. Eragon, on that matter, seems to have the ulterior motive to note this in order to lynch one of us first and the other one when the first one flips town.

Funny. I had something similar typed out about Eragon's TvS point and then I got to your post. I agree completely. TvS feels like a completely random label and I can't think of any reason why he would feel that way. It looks like he just put it there and ran with it rather than actually seeing it first. Actually though...I typed that out and then saw his reply:

so, my catchup is bad because you disagree with one post. coolio. good deflection. But, i thought i was pretty clear. I scumread you both individually, but i also don't think you are ever in a team. This happens because I don't think, first of all, scum is bussing in this playlist and game speed. there is no point because before i got to this game coasting was the word and literally nothing was happening. So the fact that sleepless was voting you, and you "FELT" like you were being tunneled is never SvS because even if scum were bussing, the "FEEL" like you were being tunneled wouldn't have happened unless you were faking it. I think the feeling is genuine, and you genuinely felt you were being tunneled. its just that feeling is wolfy. There is some of that. I seem to note this because ITS WHAT I FUCKING THINK. how is it lining up lynches for me thinking its TvS? i have plenty of reasons to believe its TvS, and i feel confident enough in my skill and my reads to push this. how is having a read fucking ultierior motive? if we lynch one of you and they flip scum, im confident in the other being town. nice. If we lynch one of you and they flip town, im confident in the other being scum. nice. as i said. i . have clear scumreads of both of you individually, and i think you are never scumbuddies. I gave clear progression and saying i have no other motive except lining up lynches is wolfy as shit.

And now it just looks like I was reading "TvS" the wrong way. So it's that Pink Ball and I are independent scum reads but not scum together. It wasn't something in our discussion that made Eragon go "Oh, one of these two is scum". That actually makes more sense. I feel scatter brained this game. Ugh.

So that makes me pretty confident that the scumteam is in my nullreads. We'll need those sweet interactions now.

See, this is what I'm afraid of. I'm having trouble getting any scum reads. I also don't really have a read on Cult, kit, or rooroo. If 1-2 of those three are scum, it would explain my difficulties.

VOTE: Slaxx

Reason: Out of my 4 unsorted slots

1- I didn't want to put Pink Ball at L-1 in case he is town.
2- I didn't want to make Assassins an equally competent wagon in case Pink Ball was scum.
3- I don't want it to look like I'm voting kitcat because she's voting me.

This strikes me as kinda townie? Maybe?
Like it's bad reasoning but I'm not sure it's scummy reasoning really

What makes it town?

VOTE: Athena

Yeah you're gonna have to explain that one.

But your response makes me feel better, because you are not arguing your alignment, but arguing the evidence. It's like you're saying "It's not what you know. It's what you can prove." which works in a court of law, but not in an online game.

lol what?

Also, people wanted me to try harder and give reads and I did just that. What's wrong with that?

Don't get me wrong, it's good that you did and I don't want to create a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario but... it's the timing. The fact that you made a point to have reads immediately after it was pointed out that not having them was an issue. Your response sounded like your playstyle is slow and you will point them out as they come to you. And if that's the way you play, fine. That's probably what town-you would do. But the fact that you rushed a bunch of reads together after saying you are slow to do so feels like appeasing. The only reason to do that is to try to look good. That's why it kind of feels like it might be coming from a scum mindset to me.

But there’s a very real possibility both were scum. Why did you initially assume Assassin was town in that scenario? Especially when you think you have it narrowed down to four.

This feels like scum caught for the wrong reasons and not finding a way to back off.

Uhhh, how?

_____________________

Unvote, Vote Eyes

[Eragon]

Why are you treating me like an idiot? I said I was pissed off because of being scumread when I think there's no reason for scumreading someone fluffing around with purpose behind. I never insulted you, and when I delivered my reads I toned down the "pissed off mood" in order to not belittle no one. Saying things like ""Scum because he OBVIOUSLY HAS AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE of lining up lynches and OBVIOUSLY DIDNT EXPLAIN ANYTHING AT ALL" yes this makes sense 1000%" is ?. I didn't say you didn't explain anything at all, I said it felt like you were lining up lynches because I didn't like the reasoning behind your reads on me and Sleepless. I know my alignment, of course I think you're wrong about what you're doing.

About scumreading everyone: yeah sorry, I thought you had EWAF as townie and then degraded him to a slight scumread because of being self aware, so I thought you had 5 instead of 4, my bad.

I think your reply to my post was townie tho. I don't like your tone, but your tone is the thing that makes me feel you're being angry town with who you think is scum. If you were scum and your faked scumread started scumreading you, I think your reaction would've been more "I have to look better than this guy" and the way you reacted doesn't seem to be like that. I mean, you depicted me like an idiot, but the way you did it was different from what I would've expected from scum.

UNVOTE: Eragon

So that makes me pretty confident that the scumteam is in my nullreads. We'll need those sweet interactions now.

i probably did go a bit overboard, and for that i apologize. im just kinda pissed off at the entire game state right now and the fact that basically this game was just like 3-4 people posting content and not even 7 pages when i replaced in. Im used to games that can get to 7 pages in the first couple hours, let alone numerous days.

im liking the fact people are starting to post content and reads, etc...


im sorry if you felt like i was calling you out like you were an idiot, i had no ill intentions and just got heated in the moment.

[Eragon]

53 NGL I had to look up what bombastic meant to understand this post. Ok seeing what bombastic means, why do you think its towny for someone to post a lot of posts that have no meaning? Or inflated posts or whatever it means. So. Many. Big. Words. ARGH. “Fallacious” this is a towny post as well because I feel scum would just try to ride the new player but not outright say they are a new player, and if anyone asks, just say “ I was trying not to out I was an alt” its simple to get more easily townread but not have many repercussions in the end. Town wants to be read correctly, with full information, so they out they are an alt.

I meant bombastic more in the sense of: 'attention-seeking', or 'loud'
And not particularly in the sense of: 'post a lot of posts that have no meaning

I don't inherently find posts that are loud/ott/attention-seeking to be townie in a general sense, but I think it is for vizzy.

And yeah I feel like it's a little bit misleading to let people think of me as a new player when I'm not since that will probably affect how they try to sort me.

And sorry for the big words - I'm trying a bit of a different posting style

lol no its fine post however you want im just messing around because i was overloaded and had to look up both words lmao

also thanks for the clarification