Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

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Post Post #46  (isolation #0)  » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:06 am

this has worked in the past

VOTE: shoshin the worst


~ woof

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Post Post #51  (isolation #1)  » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:01 pm

Yeah, sure. Let’s lynch the Worst on page 3 again. See if a pattern of lynching him page 3 gives 100% scum flip

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Post Post #52  (isolation #2)  » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:01 pm

In post 51, ProFlavor wrote:Yeah, sure. Let’s lynch the Worst on page 3 again. See if a pattern of lynching him page 3 gives 100% scum flip


~Miaow

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Post Post #65  (isolation #3)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:36 am

In post 60, Taly wrote:k +1 to TW+Sho town can we move on now

~ Taly

p-edit

Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 43, Taly wrote:not feeling the kokichi IC claim but i slight townvibe it anyway

This is super awkward.

VOTE: Taly


disagreed c:

whats awkward is that L-3 wagon on you


No it’s not. The last time he got page 3 lynched he flipped scum. He’s probably scum.

-Miaow

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Post Post #86  (isolation #4)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:24 am

In post 81, Taly wrote:evidence please and ty~ Taly

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77702

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Post Post #102  (isolation #5)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:40 am

In post 87, Varsoon wrote:@Proflavor: Could you sign your posts?

Image


~ woof

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Post Post #251  (isolation #6)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:02 am

I don't like u r a person 2 pushing pint - the push has a lot of stuff that pint hasn't done (e.g. promise of catch up) and less stuff along the lines of "pint is scummy because he did X"

why is activity now AI?

~ woof

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Post Post #264  (isolation #7)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:14 am

In post 253, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 251, ProFlavor wrote:I don't like u r a person 2 pushing pint - the push has a lot of stuff that pint hasn't done (e.g. promise of catch up) and less stuff along the lines of "pint is scummy because he did X"

why is activity now AI?

~ woof

It doesn't really look like a push to me, it just looks like they responded to Shoshin the worst's inquiry. Doesn't the post right above () fit along the lines described in of "pint is scummy because he did X"?

no not really.

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Post Post #267  (isolation #8)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:18 am

In post 264, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 253, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 251, ProFlavor wrote:I don't like u r a person 2 pushing pint - the push has a lot of stuff that pint hasn't done (e.g. promise of catch up) and less stuff along the lines of "pint is scummy because he did X"

why is activity now AI?

~ woof

It doesn't really look like a push to me, it just looks like they responded to Shoshin the worst's inquiry. Doesn't the post right above () fit along the lines described in of "pint is scummy because he did X"?

no not really.

~ woof

(oops :) )

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Post Post #369  (isolation #9)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:16 pm

In post 368, profii wrote:
In post 336, Alchemist21 wrote:@ProFlavor what are your reads?

I posted them in our hydra thread and FL said he pretty much agreed so here

As of p11

1.Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) - could go either way - I feel like TW has lurked it out because he knows he could get speed lynched haha
2.Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) - prob town
3.Varsoon - prob town
4.Almost Chara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) - dunno yet
5.Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) - dunno yet
6.Kokichi Oma - dunno yet
7.Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) - prob town
8.nicorobin - would lynch
9.Mewtaph - dunno yet
10.alchemist21- dunno yet
11.ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) - hallelujah
12.u r a person 2 - would lynch
13.pinturicchio - dunno yet
14.Taly - probably town


On reflection of Nico - I played a game with Nico and everyone made a meta comment about her lurking - so obviously she is lurking but the reason I put “would lynch” rather than dunno yet is that the 2nd post was like someone dragged her into the game - ie - setting up an excuse to not bother posting

But then I think the lurk meta might have been Town indicative and I can’t remember (someone confirm???)

I’ll read the last few pages

I’ve never hydra’d before - I’m not sure how much I’m supposed to post or confer in private :lol:

~ woof

~ woof woof grrr woof woof

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Post Post #374  (isolation #10)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:59 pm

In post 370, Alchemist21 wrote:Flesh out the difference between your scumread of Nico and U2’s scumread of Pint. They seem the same to me because you’re both pushing someone for not posting.

Nicos 2nd post came across like “ugh fine I’ll play if I must” - like a setup for later so she can be like “I’m lurking because I told you I’m already not really engaged in this game” (it’s a weak read on one sentence tbh)

U R is more like “I’m don’t see pint doing anything so I’ll just apply pressure” - I note his point that he knows Pint and wants to sort that slot - but I’m sure U r knows how to play the game in general so there are plenty of other dudes to sort - sticking on a read that basically consists of “he’s not doing anything” makes me think he wants to line up the rest of his reads to “fit in” with town - you can’t do that whilst (up to page 11 which I’ve read properly) most of the game has been about STW because you don’t know who is going to obvtown or scum it up

So I feel like U r is biding his time on an easy read

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Post Post #375  (isolation #11)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:00 pm

(Woof)

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Post Post #378  (isolation #12)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:11 pm

Olé

VOTE: URAP2

Woof

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Post Post #498  (isolation #13)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:01 pm

someone said something about FL coasting a bit - he always does that. He invited me to hydra with him so I was kinda thinking I'd let him lead proceedings but he is never going to be as active as I am so that approach probably wont help.

I recall someone asking me about my T&L read- its not an amazing read really - BH & GE are both players I approach by saying they are town until they do something scummy because I mostly just don't get any vibe from what they say - I often play with him and people in the player list will be like 'oh gamma/BH is def scum' and I'm just sat here like "am I stupid i do not get that?!"
...but, for example in overkill 2, gamma was obviously defending a scum player so it was obviously AI and led to me copping him.

I'm not sure how far behind as I've skimmed most of the thread but I'll be reading tonight i think.

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Post Post #510  (isolation #14)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:23 pm

In post 506, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 493, Varsoon wrote:Forgot to sign, whoops.

Also, screw it, here's my dumb rationale there:
Scum allies of STW didn't want to say anything to toss any sort of associative on the off-chance it was a real hammer and so they silently let it slide until mod confirmed it one way or another and they're smart enough to know that they'd get no points for making a fuss over it once confirmed as a lie.

-V


Is there anyone who really believed you triple voted them?

Because this argument rests squarely on that presumption.
There are people who think we seriously wanted a page 3 lynch so anything's possible

~ woof

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Post Post #839  (isolation #15)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:51 am

Many posts incoming - apologies in advance...

In post 469, Varsoon wrote:For people who thought my triple-vote-hammer was fake; why did you stay silent about it?
I'm curious.

-V


I think I have played with you once (Overkill) and you day vigged me so you are liable to fake gambit thingys. Applying BoP I don't think you are someone who unilaterally decides to lynch someone without the usual intent/claim etc process. I could be wrong but I don't think I am...


~ woof

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Post Post #840  (isolation #16)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:53 am

In post 839, ProFlavor wrote:Many posts incoming - apologies in advance...

In post 469, Varsoon wrote:For people who thought my triple-vote-hammer was fake; why did you stay silent about it?
I'm curious.

-V


I think I have played with you once (Overkill) and you day vigged me so you are liable to fake gambit thingys. Applying BoP I don't think you are someone who unilaterally decides to lynch someone without the usual intent/claim etc process. I could be wrong but I don't think I am...


~ woof

That doesn't actually explain the reason for ignoring you - if I reacted, I'd probably give away that I thought you were messing about, therefore we wouldn't get the right reaction so I just stayed out the way (I did see it but not had much time to post this week... hence this incoming spam !)

~woof

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Post Post #841  (isolation #17)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:00 am

In post 539, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 381, Varsoon wrote:
In post 367, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Game integrity is also compromised by shitty reads, so there’s that too,


Shitty reads are an inherent part of mafia. Players swapping at the table in long-form play is not a design element of the game.

Anyway.

I heard that the lurk-meta on Nico indicates scum there but I don't really know if that's true or not.

Wow where did you hear this?

I played a game with Nico where Nico insisted lurk meta was town indicative but then Nico lurked and flipped scum :@

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Post Post #842  (isolation #18)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:08 am

In post 559, Varsoon wrote:Shooting you confirms me as town.

hate when people say stuff like this.... tell me why because I'm thick

~woof

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Post Post #843  (isolation #19)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:12 am

In post 599, u r a person 2 wrote:ProFlavor's game is remarkably light. They are scum reading one person for lurking, me for voting a lurker, and T&L because they always town read them early, as far as I can recall.They also have a bunch of naked town reads. Currently trying to engage that slot, but I don't have any reason to town read them

interestingly phrased, are you saying you don't town read therefore it's null or are you saying you don't town read me therefore you scum read ?

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Post Post #844  (isolation #20)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:16 am

In post 674, Shoshin the worst wrote:#stillalive
#stilltown

oh my

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Post Post #845  (isolation #21)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:18 am

In post 686, Krazy wrote:
In post 680, Varsoon wrote:@MOD: If someone has a hypothetical day-vigilante role with flavor tied to the ability name, would you, as a mod, accept the action if the user had just written Day Vig: Playername


That would depend on the range of acceptable parameters I established with the player in the role PM, and if in doubt I would clarify the issue by PM.

which means any real day vig would not need to ask this question

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Post Post #846  (isolation #22)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:24 am

In post 705, Varsoon wrote:Literally no one has ever blacklisted me.

-V

to be fair when I blacklist people I don't tell them, I just don't join games they are in - like I already saw a post from nancy about how blacklists should be banned and I fully agree - however, if I think someone is a numpty who cant behave I will avoid them and because I'm old and boring I just keep it to myself.

not directed at you as I'm not blacklisting you but I just wanted to add my comments on this as it's like a really easy problem to solve - be civil and if you cant shut up and don't play :lol:

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Post Post #847  (isolation #23)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:27 am

In post 726, Almost Chara wrote:@TWS: Could you also calm down a bit? Let's try to figure things out mechanically. Between you and Varsoon I'd say he's townier than you, but I could see you both being Town. Chara probably sees it the other way around, but I'm sure I can convince them this is Varsoon's Town game.

Som anyway.. do you have any knowledge of Starcraft?

so far I'm reading it like Varsoon is trying to manufacturer the fact that he is the declared town aligned person and inventing that he is the vig...

but saying that, if that's the case, Krazy wouldn't give it away with the way he responded to Varsoon so idk...


~ still woof btw

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Post Post #848  (isolation #24)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:29 am

In post 727, u r a person 2 wrote:I sincerely doubt that the mod would be so... trolly

but in starcraft 1 there is a high ground advantage mechanic

where units firing up hill have a roughly 50% chance to miss

and stw is above you in the player list ;P

interesting that Varsoon is actually bottom and ground have some advantage (taking your word for that bit idk anything about star craft)

although less interesting the list was randomised - was theorising that Varsoon has power so was put at the most difficult spot if bottom is somehow bad - not relevant though.

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Post Post #849  (isolation #25)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:32 am

In post 751, Almost Chara wrote:@Michael Scott: You answered your own question. Any experienced player wouldn't claim Vig knowing there IS a Vig that would shoot them, except if they were @L-1 maybe (and it still would have been a bad move), and Varsoon wasn't even under pressure.

This is a good point - I think the only caveat to that is you'd be gambling on getting protection somehow so :|

I think however Varsoon should day vig someone today.

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Post Post #850  (isolation #26)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:35 am

In post 798, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 789, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 586, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 583, u r a person 2 wrote:meta,

We honestly can't apply BoP because we have no idea what people's alignments are. More that we think the subconscious mindset you've presented with some of your reads has been scum indicative.

We really don't believe in reading people via bop at all. Categorically.

I was looking for some stuff in this game which I should townread. Sorry if this felt like a breakthrough but I'm not sure how to see anything AI in the BoP argument. It might be slightly towny because of the disconnect maybe? But then scum who are caught for the wrong reason often react the same way. So I'm quite net null on it :(


Can you please explain BoP, thanks. And yes, I know it stands for burden of proficiency but I don’t know what that means?

Burden of proficiency.
Basically, the idea that "because Player X isn't proficient, they must be scum". For example, saying "because Nancy mislynched scum and had bad reads she must be scum". It's a nonsensical argument.

Here URAP2 is suggesting I'm BoPing him because I'm saying "because you didn't have the same read as us on a lurker post, you must be scum".

I'd argue when some people derp in places they usually wouldn't it can be a scum tell - but certain people in certain scenarios.

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Post Post #852  (isolation #27)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:04 am

if we are lynching nico for lurking why don't we get Vars to vig it

or koki

or I haven't seen much from mewptah


or we put these slots to a vig-vote to get association tells later ?

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Post Post #859  (isolation #28)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:07 am

In post 853, Varsoon wrote:I can't shoot anymore today.
My shot was used.

-V
should have let people nominate a vig shot mr super duper reaction test man. :(

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Post Post #860  (isolation #29)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:16 am

In post 38, NicoRobin wrote:I am in this game.

In post 39, NicoRobin wrote:Why again? I wanted to replace later. Instead I got shangaied into this.

In post 432, NicoRobin wrote:Baa, baa, black shiiiipppp

I assume you mean the middle post Mem?

Looks like Nico asked to be in the replace queue @ signups but obviously got in to start which is the disgruntlement - arguably the issue start prior to role PMs being dished out so it's technically NAI - from a purely logical perspective it makes my interpretation of Nico setting herself up to lurk on purpose "well I didn't want to play anyway" vibe less relevant

which makes the whole lurker style thing anti town but not necessarily scummy.

I don't like lurkers but that's a policy not a scum read :@

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Post Post #861  (isolation #30)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:16 am

woof

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Post Post #863  (isolation #31)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:40 am

In post 751, Almost Chara wrote:@Michael Scott: You answered your own question. Any experienced player wouldn't claim Vig knowing there IS a Vig that would shoot them, except if they were @L-1 maybe (and it still would have been a bad move), and Varsoon wasn't even under pressure.

I had a thought that I was cop in overkill 2 - claimed on day 1 and last 5 days somehow

so given Varsoon likes a fake claim and has meta for it would I believe scum!varsoon would claim a role (at least a variant of said role) that we know exists and therefore risk either a cc or worse yet, would shoot him just to try and get the town cred of IC status.


that means you are gambling on 1 of 2 things being true to keep you going:

1. the real vig going "oh varsoon just a fake claim he does that for lulz I wont shoot him"
2. the existence of a protection & said protection actually believes the claim.

then another issue - the shot failed and has 'expired' for today somehow - This implies another go tomorrow- on the fact that Varsoon was confident enough today, you can't bottle it tomorrow and say you're not sure so holstering, you'd surely get lynched tomorrow

All these options severely reduce the lifespan of varsoon regardless of any wifom - my gut is telling me to not believe the claim but the logic is saying there is no advantage to scum of claiming


so a weird reluctant town read :lol:

~woof

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Post Post #866  (isolation #32)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:11 pm

I don't but that only adds to my point I suppose

~ woof

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Post Post #871  (isolation #33)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:17 pm

In post 870, profii wrote:
In post 868, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 855, Varsoon wrote:What are your reads, URAP2?
Care to share who you are PoE'ing through and why?
I've been just kinda glossing your recent posts, so if there's answers there, sorry.
Feed it to me

-V

lots out of game on my plate today. haven't read over yesterday yet. this is where im at right now. I'm also interested in taly as I continue doing a round of looking at my town reads.

1. Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) town
2. Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) ???
3. Mewtaph ???
4. u r a person 2 hey, that's me
5. AlmostChara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) town
6. Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) town
7. pinturucchio town
8. nicorobin ???
9. ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) ???
10. Kokichi Oma ???
11. Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) town
12. alchemist21 town
13. Taly town
14. Varsoon town

Your read list is like a lot of town reads and question marks on the lurkier slots

I did a similar read list and got similar results in my hydra PT

So when STW said this game is hard to read I kinda town read that - because for this reason, it kinda is

Woof oops sorry

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Post Post #875  (isolation #34)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:50 pm

Assuming that could be a reference to the avatar

The thing that bugs me is that is now a good few players saying this is a tough game - what do you guys think about Varsoon disagreeing with that

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Post Post #888  (isolation #35)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:54 pm

The last page where a load of people (inc me) have all come out and said “not really got any scum reads” makes me consider the scenario = there is a good scum player amongst the seemingly town bunch and scum are happy if we go Koki/Nico

Perhaps - could the redirect to a lurk lynch be a counter wagon to the heat on STW? In terms of no real counter wagon formed away from STW therefore scum are trying to get town to policy lynch a lurker?


Food for thought


~ woof

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Post Post #891  (isolation #36)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:31 pm

In post 889, pinturicchio wrote:Profii, is there any option of getting more of Flavor? Have he at least said something in your Hydra PT?

no idea - his last post was when he said nice read list regarding something i posting on p15 so i dunno where he is rn - i want to know what he thinks too, he often has different reads to me and with lots of people sayings it's hard i think he could just help us with a new angle if that makes sense

~ woof

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Post Post #895  (isolation #37)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm

In post 892, pinturicchio wrote:That's my thought exactly, Flavor has that confidence that can rekt this shit up, and would help me sorting you too. As I said, you always give me the heebie-jeebies since your first game ever, I can't recall the name but it was a Newbie where you claimed doctor iirc and survided until LyLo and I was so fucking sure you were the remaining scum. From there to Overkill II there hasn't been a game I have read you correctly but I don't have an N big enough to have statistical significance. Also of course I agree with myself lol.

Forgot to sign before, it has been Pin this last two posts

i kinda had a feeling you were an alt but didnt know we had played together before :o all my games are on my wiki (not this profile obvz)


interesting


~woof

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Post Post #896  (isolation #38)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:52 pm

In post 892, pinturicchio wrote:That's my thought exactly, Flavor has that confidence that can rekt this shit up, and would help me sorting you too. As I said, you always give me the heebie-jeebies since your first game ever, I can't recall the name but it was a Newbie where you claimed doctor iirc and survided until LyLo and I was so fucking sure you were the remaining scum. From there to Overkill II there hasn't been a game I have read you correctly but I don't have an N big enough to have statistical significance. Also of course I agree with myself lol.

Forgot to sign before, it has been Pin this last two posts

haha i just checked my wiki - thats the game where scioness sajj was scum - when we started this game i confused scioness with shoshin and thought they were the same person - so i posted a load of stuff in the hydra pt like 'ok i played with scum before here are some meta tells' but then was like oh shit this is different people :lol: :lol:

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Post Post #970  (isolation #39)  » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:38 am

In post 963, Shoshin the worst wrote:Quack. So much shitposting.
Should we wait for nullslots to do something?

~ Shoshin

I'm going to get myself in a tunnel but here is how I'm reading this:

There is a tunnel on STW and a large proportion of players are saying the gamestate is full of towny dudes - so there is no where for a counter wagon to form - therefore "should we wait for nullslots to do something" could equal "can we wait for the nullslots to do something scummy to take heat off me, as yet, there is no where for people to create a sensible wagon and I'm in a bit of a pickle"


FL said he will catch up soon so I'm just going to let that happen before I go as far as voting/diving down this tunnel, otherwise I would have already.

~ woof

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Post Post #999  (isolation #40)  » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:15 pm

In post 989, Shoshin the worst wrote:Posts like ProFlavor's last one SHOULD come >rand from scum because of how conspicuously weighted they are

no idea what that means but I'm around for a bit so AMA if you want.

I am currently trying to asses Taly - in a game where loads of people went 'I cant scum read anyone' he had loads of different reads. not sure if this is AI... will come back later with a decision

~woof

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Post Post #1016  (isolation #41)  » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:22 pm

In post 1006, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1004, Shoshin the worst wrote:speaking of biased readings what do you all think the odds are that one of nico's scumbuddies was just like "hey vote stw so you're not replaced" :thinking:


It’s as likely as any other scenario.

True dat

~ woof

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Post Post #1126  (isolation #42)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:51 pm

In post 1086, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1021, Taly wrote:oh lol forgot mephisto was in this game again

...ive played with jeanne11... in 2015.

and ive played with nico one game this past year... but it doesnt count since she was mislynched early-game for doing the bare minimum to avoid being replaced


If Nico is town here, that looks good for Taly and vice-versa.

So even if Nico is scum - Taly has been hard against the Nico wagon because the flip doesn’t give us info

I’ve seen scum get lynched and people be against the wagon and sometimes the defender flips scum, sometimes town - so I’m making a mental note that talys issue with the wagon is specifically info gained, rather than “I don’t want to lynch Nico because i find ___ element of her play towny”

Idk what that means it just stood out

~ woof

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Post Post #1129  (isolation #43)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:00 pm

I would say at this point if we were going to policy lynch a lurk slot why Nico over Koki?

Those of you that played Overkill 2 may recall FL admitting either in PT or post game (can’t fully remember) he purposely acted as disengaged to move along to the later stages of the game

Arguably - that’s more Koki, as opposed to Nico simply not being here

So I’ll be keeping an eye on those pushing Nico


I’m gonna go read up on some slots that I haven’t really noticed up to now

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Post Post #1131  (isolation #44)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:06 pm

In post 1128, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1126, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1086, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1021, Taly wrote:oh lol forgot mephisto was in this game again

...ive played with jeanne11... in 2015.

and ive played with nico one game this past year... but it doesnt count since she was mislynched early-game for doing the bare minimum to avoid being replaced


If Nico is town here, that looks good for Taly and vice-versa.

So even if Nico is scum - Taly has been hard against the Nico wagon because the flip doesn’t give us info

I’ve seen scum get lynched and people be against the wagon and sometimes the defender flips scum, sometimes town - so I’m making a mental note that talys issue with the wagon is specifically info gained, rather than “I don’t want to lynch Nico because i find ___ element of her play towny”

Idk what that means it just stood out

~ woof

This is a good take. You don't have any thoughts about whether Taly looks s/s with Nico, or like town flailing to defend a lurker wagon?

I don’t think I’ve ever played with scum!Taly - would he be that open wolf if it was s/s - pretty outrageous!

If it’s town!taly / either!Nico - it’s meaningless - talys just right that Nico is basically a policy lynch and its NAI

If it’s not town!taly I can only see it being scum!taly / town!Nico - taly ends up in day 2 with subliminal credibility of not lynching Nico without actually saying town!Nico - just PL are bad guys

It’s subliminal credibility because you’d never re-read the thread and be like “taly identified Nico!town” but in VCA - taly wasn’t on a town lynch (which can feasibly go through) so you probably give him credibility in your mind as you reflect on VCA but can’t really recall things (I’m thinking like in day 3 onwards etc)


Haven’t decided which - leaning T/T on gut instinct

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Post Post #1132  (isolation #45)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:06 pm

In post 1130, Shoshin the worst wrote:if Kokichi just genuinely doesn't follow through on catching up he's obviously a fierce contender. I see nothing to townread from either of them but his catchup promise over just a naked vote is closer to playing in good faith than Nico's lurking/naked vote/complaining thing.

Hi The Worst

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Post Post #1134  (isolation #46)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:12 pm

Stop trying to pocket me, that’s whats up ;)

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Post Post #1135  (isolation #47)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:13 pm

Prediction: when FL catches up and sees this post he should read Michael Scott’s Iso

The prediction is at this stage of the game he will call it “political” or at least agree a to why I said that haha

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Post Post #1138  (isolation #48)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:33 pm

What

If there is division in the thread it helps a PL

Tomorrow you can go “this person was for Nico but against Varsoon, this person was for Nico but with Varsoon” bla bla

If _everyone_ was like Nico PL go go go - it’s daft because you would get nothing

But why is division bad?!?!?

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Post Post #1139  (isolation #49)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:34 pm

In post 1137, Taly wrote:STW, you never answered my question -_-

Why are you so content on lynching Nico if your vote there is pressure? Do you strongly scumread them?

Ermmm


Are you really asking someone to say “my pressure vote isn’t serious don’t worry”

Kinda defeats the point haha

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Post Post #1151  (isolation #50)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:49 pm

vote has stayed because of a lack of FL, I'd like to hear from him and he said he'd be around soon so no rush

I dont think nico has posted enough content to move the slot out of null - i agree that the lynch is a policy lynch - I'd argue that Koki is a 1% better policy lynch because he keeps popping in and saying 'I'll be back etc' which could be scum acting disengaged to coast day 1 - I'd ironically compare that to my early nico scum read based off one little thing so it's not really something I'd go - this is the slot that should eat rope today - totally insufficient data right now.


and the bit about associatives - at the moment I'm finding my VCA/associate game to serve me quite well right now so I want to make sure we are good there - PL wont help, but as per above koki is 1% more useful to lynch than nico

we have a bit of time to make a real lynch though so no problem

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Post Post #1157  (isolation #51)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:32 pm

erm woof

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Post Post #1189  (isolation #52)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:44 am

In post 1163, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1156, profii wrote:
In post 1132, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1130, Shoshin the worst wrote:if Kokichi just genuinely doesn't follow through on catching up he's obviously a fierce contender. I see nothing to townread from either of them but his catchup promise over just a naked vote is closer to playing in good faith than Nico's lurking/naked vote/complaining thing.

Hi The Worst

In post 1133, Shoshin the worst wrote:Sup

it others me that i call out TWs blatant pocketing on the last page and whoosh gone i have to say

Wait sorry what pocketing? The duck head pockets as both alignments and has no problems talking about pocketing. I'm not sure what you consider pocketing here.

Well hi Shoshin, for a hydra that claims to coordinate all posts with each other this post strikes as something you haven’t conferred over - almost like my accusation of this pocketing has shook you a little bit - guess I’m on the money

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Post Post #1201  (isolation #53)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:01 am

In post 1194, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1189, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1163, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1156, profii wrote:
In post 1132, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1130, Shoshin the worst wrote:if Kokichi just genuinely doesn't follow through on catching up he's obviously a fierce contender. I see nothing to townread from either of them but his catchup promise over just a naked vote is closer to playing in good faith than Nico's lurking/naked vote/complaining thing.

Hi The Worst

In post 1133, Shoshin the worst wrote:Sup

it others me that i call out TWs blatant pocketing on the last page and whoosh gone i have to say

Wait sorry what pocketing? The duck head pockets as both alignments and has no problems talking about pocketing. I'm not sure what you consider pocketing here.

Well hi Shoshin, for a hydra that claims to coordinate all posts with each other this post strikes as something you haven’t conferred over - almost like my accusation of this pocketing has shook you a little bit - guess I’m on the money

This is a brilliant way not to answer my question. What about this strikes you as pocketing and why do you think it's an issue I walked away from my PC at the time?

I thought it was fairly obvious and didn’t warrant a specific answer - no ones really going pocketing what? So I’ll leave it at that

The walking away bit might have been coincidental

The breaking out into 2 heads was the most interesting though

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Post Post #1219  (isolation #54)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:51 am

In post 1217, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1201, ProFlavor wrote:I thought it was fairly obvious and didn’t warrant a specific answer - no ones really going pocketing what? So I’ll leave it at that

The walking away bit might have been coincidental

The breaking out into 2 heads was the most interesting though

What do you mean about breaking into 2 heads? and what about it interests you?

I’m interested to see if the rest of the group find this note worthy so I’ll come back to this in a couple pages time

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Post Post #1222  (isolation #55)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:25 am

In post 1221, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Does no one have anything to say about post 1195?

I could link the friends game Gamma talked about and say Nico lurking can go either way tbh

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Post Post #1237  (isolation #56)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:29 pm

That’s a lot of words for what could have been

TW used the word holistic 41 times over a certain time period / X as town / Y as scum so it’s NAI
Then ask why point disagreed


Why use 100 words when you can use 10 eh


~ woof

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Post Post #1253  (isolation #57)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:10 am

[v]mew[v]

L-1

Someone do the intent thing, we can have a claim and the inevitable scramble and get that ball rolling before we do the next wagon :-/

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Post Post #1254  (isolation #58)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:14 am

Oops

VOTE: mew

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Post Post #1262  (isolation #59)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:46 am

In post 1222, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1221, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Does no one have anything to say about post 1195?

I could link the friends game Gamma talked about and say Nico lurking can go either way tbh


Was this the one where we partnered up and had two desperate games?

~Leaf

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Post Post #1263  (isolation #60)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:47 am

Yo, Auro, I got a rundown of the game from my buddy, but can I see your perspective?

3 biggest things this game to look out for during my catchup, what are they?

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Post Post #1265  (isolation #61)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:50 am

Hmm, I don’t know if I’m a fan of this Mewtaph wagon, but I’ll trust Profii.

What’s the case for ScumTaph?

~Leaf

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Post Post #1272  (isolation #62)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:57 am

Seems to me like Alchemist went after mewtaph because he didn’t like that Mewtaph said he didn’t seem genuine, and Nancy likely got stuck on something Mewtaoh did and got in a TvT with Mewtaph.

I’m leaning town on Mewtaph.

UNVOTE: Mewtaph

Alchemist and Nancy are both the type to stick on something when they don’t have anything else to go on and tunnel in. I don’t think Mewtaph’s scum off the last few pages.

I went back and ISO’d, and it looks like people just tunneled in.

I haven’t been keeping up with the game, so i feel that I have a pretty unbiased look at the game right now.

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Post Post #1279  (isolation #63)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:07 am

Yeah, I’m looking for a reason, but Mewtaph just seems like town to me.

~FL

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Post Post #1282  (isolation #64)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:11 am

In post 393, pinturicchio wrote:Ooooh spooky spooky. Let's hope he doesn't have to jump in then.

By the way Var I'm townreading you but that already went poorly on Overkill II. I see some differences in playstyle, do you see them too?

-Turicchio

In post 394, Varsoon wrote:I don't think I'm that introspective. I guess? I was playing Overkill II very protective of myself, whereas I don't think I've got much to fear in this game.


This is pretty townie from both of these players.
Not quite town reading them, but it’s something.
Varsoon is actually pretty townie to me right now, and different from the scum game we played.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1290  (isolation #65)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:52 am

VOTE: STW

~ woof.

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Post Post #1303  (isolation #66)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:27 am

In post 1295, Shoshin the worst wrote:@ProFlavor talk me through what the rationale of seeing those Mewtaph posts and winding up at "yeah wow Mewtaph is town, I'm going to vote STW instead"
That was the strangest reaction I've seen ITT so far. His reasoning isn't even slightly towny.

Well that was not the rationale so...

It's a bit conf bias'y but I (Profii) think you and Mewp can both be scum. Mewp has only really been interested with any real degree of seriousness in Alch up until very recently, but finds himself on you for mostly omgus reasons. (as far as I can tell?) and that is seemingly only coming out now there is some pressure on his (mew) slot

I was ISO'ing Mew and posting to FL in the hydra PT and when I saw the naked vote / die thing I put - just going to check but I bet STW is not under pressure anymore...

I feel like Mewp has kept himself on Alch because he has managed to keep himself out of the spotlight for most of the day - now he is borderline claim time, this drama with you appears.

I think Mewp is preparing for a claim to send the wagon elsewhere, getting the bus on you ready

so I just think you are both scum.

~ woof

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Post Post #1346  (isolation #67)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:02 pm

In post 1295, Shoshin the worst wrote:@ProFlavor talk me through what the rationale of seeing those Mewtaph posts and winding up at "yeah wow Mewtaph is town, I'm going to vote STW instead"
That was the strangest reaction I've seen ITT so far. His reasoning isn't even slightly towny.


What’s scummy about them?

Also, Profii voted you, I’m the one who thought Mew was town, and I think Profii just is taking that into consideration rather than town reading Mewtaph.

I just don’t see anything that couldn’t have been said by a town aligned Mewtaph. What’s the scum agenda?

~Leaf

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Post Post #1348  (isolation #68)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:05 pm

On top of that, Varsoon is townVarsoon here. I know what that tunneling Varsoon feels like and looks like. On top of that, both Nancy and Mustang have a tendency to tunnel onto towniesbpretty relentlessly (albeit in different ways) is the fact they are the first 2 on the Mewtaph wagon makes it more likely that they are tunneling onto town which is why it got near lynch.

This is regardless of Nancy/Mustang alignments.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1349  (isolation #69)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Also, both heads of Almost Chara are there obvtown self.

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Post Post #1351  (isolation #70)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:08 pm

In post 1338, Varsoon wrote:I'm around, too, Mew.
I have a really hard time reading your posts for some reason
Like it is difficult for me to maintain focus on them for any amount of time

-V


This is also more indicative of town than scum, imo.

Scum can easily explain what they’re saying because they have to explain it to themselves.

Townies have to figure it out, and try to put it into words. Mewtaph’s town.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1387  (isolation #71)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:39 pm

In post 1379, Shoshin the worst wrote:Mewtaph is still a great vote if people pull their heads out but I'm losing faith in this list rapidly


This is a false bravado and an attempt to discredit the player list.

I feel we’re actually a strong playerlist, and whoever said this is attempting to cause doubt within town.

It’s Day 1. Nobody should genuinely have that kind of attitude towards the game state.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1388  (isolation #72)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:40 pm

In post 1378, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: Kokichi
If this greens I'll reconsider AC
Otherwise I'm treating them as basically hard town


This looks like a self preservation move to try to shift the momentum off of them onto Kokichi.

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Post Post #1389  (isolation #73)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:41 pm

Kokichi is also mislynch bait this early in the game. Shoshin is super scum. :lol:

~Leaf

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Post Post #1390  (isolation #74)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:41 pm

In post 1378, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: Kokichi
If this greens I'll reconsider AC
Otherwise I'm treating them as basically hard town


This also sets up a mislynch path and general plan of action.

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Post Post #1391  (isolation #75)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:43 pm

In post 1390, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1378, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: Kokichi
If this greens I'll reconsider AC
Otherwise I'm treating them as basically hard town


This also sets up a mislynch path and general plan of action.


While at the same time creates commraderie with who they’d be working with to get Kokichi, so they have support onto AC tomorrow, then can turn onto their support.

It’s a solid scum play, but it’s very much scum play nonetheless.

Scum play as in, scum do this because it helps them get on towns good side. I like to look into the reasons people town read others to find my scum reads because essentially that’s what scum tries to do. Get townies to town read them.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1392  (isolation #76)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:49 pm

The fact that Varsoon, Mewtaph, and I are the three on Shoshin right now shows me that this is more than likely a scum slot.

Varsoon is hard town here. I’ve recently gotten to witness directly both townVarsoon and scumVarsoon, and really I’ve known Varsoon for like 4 and a half years now, so I’m pretty happy with my read there.

Mewtaph is town for the wagon composition. Mustang and Nancy pushing onto a townie the way they did makes total sense, and then people, and scumShoshin, decide to jump on to Mewtaph.

This also semi incriminates Jjh slot, but I’ll let them catchup first.

I realize my slot will probably be tried to use as a counterwagon option after pushing Shoshone like this, so unless you wanna try to 1v1 me and out explain the damn awful play it would have been to let Mewtaph live in this situation as scum...well, go for it. I could have just kept not playing the game and allowing Profii to play in that situation. Mewtaph likely would have been killed.

So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Long story short, Only town are on the Shoshin wagon right now. Bet.

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Post Post #1393  (isolation #77)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:50 pm

~Leaf

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Post Post #1400  (isolation #78)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:01 pm

In post 1396, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?


You can think it, but I have plenty of reasons that prove that you are the wrong town.

Explain it to me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1402  (isolation #79)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:02 pm

Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1403  (isolation #80)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:03 pm

In post 1394, Almost Chara wrote:it's a foolish one if so (not that i'm discounting your interpretation).
what's pretty bizarre to me is the belief that Kokichi's alignment has anything to do with mine here, as though his bad meta read on me has credence provided he's town.

but Leaf, do you think STW decides to have their cake and eat it too, by which i mean continuing to have us as strong town while also trying to lynch someone i don't want to lynch, and leave us open as a target on later days?

and thanks for the answer, Nancy.
~Chara


I don’t think they were actively going for that mislynch path, it just happens to setup nicely for the future, which is a thing scum subconciously look out for while playing the political game.

Because they can always change the read otherwise.

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Post Post #1409  (isolation #81)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:14 pm

In post 1406, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1400, ProFlavor wrote:You can think it, but I have plenty of reasons that prove that you are the wrong town.

Explain it to me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

I was really just trying to ascertain if keeping a mewtaph vote rn would require me to 1v1 you

because I'm getting a strong feeling that I don't want to do that.

Question, though

When you roll scum, how often does a scum get lynched d1? more or equal to never?



Good question.

Not too often, but it’s happened. I generally am not so easily paired up with my scum partners, though. I’m pretty good at making it so if I ever flip scum, people can’t figure out who my partners are when I’m scum.

I just really don’t feel like Mewtaph has really done anything that’s overly scummy, I feel I’ve given a plenty solid reasoning for why he is most likely town, so any votes on Mewtaph right now I would feel are being done politically.

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Post Post #1410  (isolation #82)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:16 pm

In post 1408, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1402, ProFlavor wrote:Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf


Once again I repeat: Please explain it to me, like I’m 5. Ktankx.


I have.

Nothing scummy really from Mewtaph, you and Mustang have a tendency to tunnel onto townies, then the near lynch.

If you’re town, then you should feel scum followed you onto the wagon, tbh.

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Post Post #1413  (isolation #83)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:20 pm

Sure, and I’m taking that into consideration.

One thing doesn’t make someone town, the conjunction of multiple things do.

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Post Post #1415  (isolation #84)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:23 pm

I use the “should I town read you?@ question or some variant of it,

Or I’ll ask Why should I? Genuinely.

So I actually find the question townie than scummy.

All these pushes I’m seeing are NAI at best, if not they make me feel like they are town.

This is the type of mislynch that scum push. I understand why the wagon was built upon them, I just strongly believe Mewtaph is town.

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Post Post #1417  (isolation #85)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:24 pm

Instead of me explaining my reads, would you mind explaining your reasoning to scum read them, and I’ll give my thoughts on it?

I feel that we can probably come to a consensus. I want to help you see why Mewtaoh is more than likely town here.

~Leaf

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K, you gotta stop requoting. I don’t PEdit much, and you post during my other stuff. I was getting there.

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Post Post #1419  (isolation #86)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:26 pm

If you’re town, why do you think scum wouldn’t follow onto the wagon you were pushing?

Let’s take Mewtaph’s alignment out of it.

Regardless of their alignment, it is more than likely that scum would follow you onto it. Mewtaph was very much near lynch. It was a high possibility.

Scum was on the wagon. :shrug: regardless of Mewtaoh’s Alignment.

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Post Post #1421  (isolation #87)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:28 pm

In post 1418, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1409, ProFlavor wrote:I just really don’t feel like Mewtaph has really done anything that’s overly scummy, I feel I’ve given a plenty solid reasoning for why he is most likely town, so any votes on Mewtaph right now I would feel are being done politically.
"
I agree that he hasn't done anything dramatically scummy, but I'm also not convinced on stw scum, and I am the people who jumped onto mew's wagon, so the wagon analysis in defense of mew doesn't really sway me either.

so then, to my understanding, the town case on him is that his one well flushed out read, which contradicts my own read on alch, is too complex to come from scum!mew

and in a game where I've got enough town reads to fill a boat, that just ain't doin' it.

my head hurts, i'll come back to it in the morning.


Only takes one scum. I don’t think you are the scum.

But I definitely feel the lack of resistance towards Mewtaph prior to me coming in implies Mewtaph town.

Good post by you. I’m liking you right now.

Honestly, that makes me feel more comfortable on STW, however.

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Post Post #1422  (isolation #88)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:31 pm

What do you mean I’m not?

I feel I’m spouting it out pretty clearly.

He’s done nothing scummy, the 2 players who started it are known to tunnel, and there was no resistance before me.

That right there near locks him into town.

And this is BEFORE actually analyzing his play.

He’s been actively giving reads. He’s been asking questions. He’s been in the spot where he’s taking on multiple players at once. This is the epitome of a mislynch. He’s being extremely genuine, and showing thoughts of figuring out the game.

Mixed in with this and my town read of Varsoon, while seeing that U R A and Nancy are confused and trying to figure it out, I feel STW is near lock scum.

Honestly, probably with Mustang here.

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Post Post #1424  (isolation #89)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:31 pm

It’s a hydra of Profii and Myself, and we rolled town.

We’re not making it to end game. I’ll tell you that much.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1426  (isolation #90)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:35 pm

In post 1423, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1417, ProFlavor wrote:Instead of me explaining my reads, would you mind explaining your reasoning to scum read them, and I’ll give my thoughts on it?

I feel that we can probably come to a consensus. I want to help you see why Mewtaoh is more than likely town here.

~Leaf

PEdit:
K, you gotta stop requoting. I don’t PEdit much, and you post during my other stuff. I was getting there.


A) He seems very different here, than in last game.

B) I don’t buy his read on Alchemist.

C) Weirdass Gamma question, made to look like he was actually asking something useful when he clearly wasn’t.

D) Advocating stupid PL, which is 9/10 a scum move when it isn’t based on anything which adversely impacts the gamestate.

E) Mew’s entire reaction to his wagon, isn’t townie. He reacted extremely different to it last game.


A) He got rang up this game. I would expect him to act differently as town.
B) what read is that? I’m lean scum on Alchemist too, so if that’s it, all the more reason I like him. It’s even hard to explain, because Alxhemist hasn’t necessarily done anything, so I like that.
C) i explained why i think that’s likelier town than scum.
D) when do scum do this? I actually feel town are more likely to push a PL because it’s percieved as scummier.
E) i disagree. He’s going incredibly transparent. He’s giving reads. He’s trying to find scum, he’s just got a lot of pressure on him and no resistance to his wagon, so of course it’s going to be hard.

I think you rely on meta too much. I don’t feel meta should be used as a primary way, more of a complimentary tool. You keep meta reading like that, it’s going to get hard abused, I’ll tell you that much.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1427  (isolation #91)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:36 pm

YeH, but I’m the only resistance here.

And I know I’m town.

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Post Post #1429  (isolation #92)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:36 pm

I understand your reasonings for pushing him. I just think you’re tunneled onto him and missing other sides to the situation.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1432  (isolation #93)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:38 pm

I imagine Mewtaph felt like Nancy was tunneling and there was nothing he could do about that.

I feel this way about players like Rb and Rc, who both tunnel me relentlessly, always when I’m town. (They’re not successful with it, might I add.)

~Leaf

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Post Post #1433  (isolation #94)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:39 pm

In post 1430, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1419, ProFlavor wrote:If you’re town, why do you think scum wouldn’t follow onto the wagon you were pushing?

Let’s take Mewtaph’s alignment out of it.

Regardless of their alignment, it is more than likely that scum would follow you onto it. Mewtaph was very much near lynch. It was a high possibility.

Scum was on the wagon. :shrug: regardless of Mewtaoh’s Alignment.


Will you please stop saying that? Bono is way more town than you rn.



I’m not worried about that at all, tbh.

Why would I stop saying “if” you’re town.

I don’t know your alignment. I’m leaning town, but you are by no means lock town. I don’t use meta to complete my read. It’s only part of it. I analyze play and wagon composition for the game at hand much more than meta.

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Post Post #1435  (isolation #95)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:40 pm

Also, I’m not sure why you brought Bono up.

I could care less about that right now. Mewtaph is the towniest person in this game right now.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1436  (isolation #96)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:41 pm

In post 1434, Almost Chara wrote:at the risk of sounding dumb, who is Bono?
~Chara

pedit: if nothing else Nancy's posting here has further convinced me she's town, which is good.


I agree. This is feeling like tunneled townNancy.

I don’t know what a Bono is either.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1438  (isolation #97)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:46 pm

Mewtaph(5)~ Alchemist21(62), Mephistophanes 39(228), u r a person 2(85), Shoshin the worst(202), ProFlavor

Profii voted there, I unvoted.

I believe there to be scum on this wagon.

I have reason to believe Meph and URA are town. This leaves Shoshin and Alchemist.

This is not my MAIN reasoning for being lean scum on these players. This is a complementary reason.

One scum action does not make a scum move. It is a combination of things, sometimes certain townie moves can create a reason for someone to be scum even.

@Almost - My reads on Garmr/Saudade we’re pretty similar to my reasoning right there, at a higher level, of course.

I could be wrong about my scum reads, sure, but I do not believe I am wrong about my Mewtaph read.


Varsoon and Profii, 2 players I understand pretty well when they scum read people both agree that STW is likely scum. That makes me feel comfortable with my read there as well.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1440  (isolation #98)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:47 pm

In post 1437, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1435, ProFlavor wrote:I could care less about that right now. Mewtaph is the towniest person in this game right now.

a little hyperbolic. i completely understand scumreads in Mewtaph.

i'm also feeling rather apologetic to Varsoon for asking him to direct his attention to somewhere besides STW, and then now finding myself a little suspicious of them.
~Chara


I have said this as well.

I understand why people were pushing Mewtaph. That in itself is a reason why scum is likely on Mewtaph, especially with a tunneling Nancy on them.

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Post Post #1441  (isolation #99)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:48 pm

Sure, you can use meta for reads, but meet a player like me, and I’m going to abuse the hell out of it.

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Post Post #1442  (isolation #100)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:49 pm

@Nancy - I guarantee the next time you try to use meta to scum read me, I will not be scum. I’ll tell you that right now.

I just play every game at face value for the most part, so even my town games are pretty different from each other. And I like to try new things when I’m scum. New gambits.

I gambit as town also, if not more than when i’m scum. Just a heads up.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1444  (isolation #101)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:50 pm

I’ve seen more townies push a PL than scum.

Pushing a PL as scum is a dirty play, and most scum don’t do that. :shrug: I don’t think I’ve ever pushed a PL when I’m scum. I’ve done it multiple times as town, so...

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Post Post #1446  (isolation #102)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:51 pm

I would say STW/Alchemist. Neither of them are townie whatsoever.

Scum was on the Mewtaph wagon. Regardless of Mew’s alignment.

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Post Post #1448  (isolation #103)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 pm

In post 1445, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1440, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1437, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1435, ProFlavor wrote:I could care less about that right now. Mewtaph is the towniest person in this game right now.

a little hyperbolic. i completely understand scumreads in Mewtaph.

i'm also feeling rather apologetic to Varsoon for asking him to direct his attention to somewhere besides STW, and then now finding myself a little suspicious of them.
~Chara


I have said this as well.

I understand why people were pushing Mewtaph. That in itself is a reason why scum is likely on Mewtaph, especially with a tunneling Nancy on them.



I wasn’t tunnelling and I never pushed his wagon but the PL crap, has pushed my sr of him into the stratosphere.


And that’s why you can’t see him as town. He hit an emotional button for you when he wanted to PL thou, and you didn’t like that. Makes perfect sense why you are pushing him. However, he is also no longer on you, so...

~Leaf

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Post Post #1452  (isolation #104)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:55 pm

In post 1449, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1441, ProFlavor wrote:Sure, you can use meta for reads, but meet a player like me, and I’m going to abuse the hell out of it.


Fair, I never said it’s useful for everyone but some players, it certainly is and Mew is playing very differently and not in a townier way IMO.


Well, he’s no longer an option for the lynch today. I’ll make sure of that. If I die, Mewtaph is locktown, because nobody pulls the “he only killed Leaf to seem townie” when I’m defending them this hard.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1454  (isolation #105)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:57 pm

I’m kind of done talking about Mewtaph, tbh. He’s town, and you just got triggered with his PL comment that he dropped pretty fast.
I’ll be back in a bit. Probably going to look into Alchemist a bit more.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1456  (isolation #106)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:58 pm

In post 1453, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1444, ProFlavor wrote:I’ve seen more townies push a PL than scum.

Pushing a PL as scum is a dirty play, and most scum don’t do that. :shrug: I don’t think I’ve ever pushed a PL when I’m scum. I’ve done it multiple times as town, so...


I believe you and yes, I’ve seen scum do that numerous times and gun to head, I don’t for a minute think it was town motivated here.

Mew knows he would have a helluva time trying to mislynch me, so he resorts to PL bs.


Well, then we can see about that on a later day. If you’re right, I’m sure I’ll see it as the game progresses. I’m not going to go in circles arguing with it. I don’t think there’s a point atm. He can be lynched a different day and pushed then.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1464  (isolation #107)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:12 am

In post 1457, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1446, ProFlavor wrote:I would say STW/Alchemist. Neither of them are townie whatsoever.

Scum was on the Mewtaph wagon. Regardless of Mew’s alignment.


I just freaking told you that I see 0 difference in his play here, than in OK 2, in fact, he is even more obviously townie here, so once I again, pretend I’m dumb and explain to me how Alchemist is possibly scum here?


He wasn’t even in OK2 much, and yes, it’s similar. Any decent scum player is going to be able to match their town play, especially Day 1. Why are you using that as a full excuse that Alchemist can absolutely not be scum here?

Are you hatcheting me so STW doesn’t get killed?

~Leaf

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Post Post #1465  (isolation #108)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:13 am

In post 1463, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1452, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1449, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1441, ProFlavor wrote:Sure, you can use meta for reads, but meet a player like me, and I’m going to abuse the hell out of it.


Fair, I never said it’s useful for everyone but some players, it certainly is and Mew is playing very differently and not in a townier way IMO.


Well, he’s no longer an option for the lynch today. I’ll make sure of that. If I die, Mewtaph is locktown, because nobody pulls the “he only killed Leaf to seem townie” when I’m defending them this hard.

~Leaf


Why do you think you die over the hardclaimed vig?



I’m WIFOM’ing the scum. It’s how I lived as an IC in a large normal to end game and was a big factor at catching the last 2 scum.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1466  (isolation #109)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:14 am

@Gamma - should I be town reading you here?

You haven’t been on my radar too much, so I’d like to know.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1485  (isolation #110)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:32 am

In post 1469, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1464, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1457, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1446, ProFlavor wrote:I would say STW/Alchemist. Neither of them are townie whatsoever.

Scum was on the Mewtaph wagon. Regardless of Mew’s alignment.


I just freaking told you that I see 0 difference in his play here, than in OK 2, in fact, he is even more obviously townie here, so once I again, pretend I’m dumb and explain to me how Alchemist is possibly scum here?


He wasn’t even in OK2 much, and yes, it’s similar. Any decent scum player is going to be able to match their town play, especially Day 1. Why are you using that as a full excuse that Alchemist can absolutely not be scum here?

Are you hatcheting me so STW doesn’t get killed?

~Leaf


This still doesn’t explain why you think I’m scum. If it’s not for the Mewtaph push then where is it coming from?


Just gut/paranoia. It's honestly not a strong read.

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Post Post #1486  (isolation #111)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:32 am

Mixed in with scum likely being on that wagon.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1487  (isolation #112)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:34 am

It had 5 votes. I thought it was at L-1 when I unvoted.

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Post Post #1490  (isolation #113)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:36 am

In post 1477, Shoshin the worst wrote:I also don't townread the full wagon and don't understand why you do.


Simple. I've explained my town reads on Mewtaph and Varsoon more than anything else this game. I was also on the wagon. There's only 3 of us. What don't you understand about it?

To be fair, I'm more sure on MewtaphTown than STWscum, fwiw.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1491  (isolation #114)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:37 am

In post 1483, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1422, ProFlavor wrote:What do you mean I’m not?

I feel I’m spouting it out pretty clearly.

He’s done nothing scummy, the 2 players who started it are known to tunnel, and there was no resistance before me.

That right there near locks him into town.

And this is BEFORE actually analyzing his play.

He’s been actively giving reads. He’s been asking questions. He’s been in the spot where he’s taking on multiple players at once. This is the epitome of a mislynch. He’s being extremely genuine, and showing thoughts of figuring out the game.

Mixed in with this and my town read of Varsoon, while seeing that U R A and Nancy are confused and trying to figure it out, I feel STW is near lock scum.

Honestly, probably with Mustang here.

You're not being clear at all. You've already decided the conclusion you're going to end up at so you're talking in circles until you get there. The fact your alleged townreads and your lock scumread are both as fucking confused as each other at your posting should probably tip you off that you're the one not expressing yourself properly... :lol:


This is actually far from it. Majority of my games are very fluid.

Gamma says I second guess myself and flip flop a lot. I don't like to leave any corner undusted. Been trying to stop with the second guessing, though.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1493  (isolation #115)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:40 am

In post 1477, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:The fact that Varsoon, Mewtaph, and I are the three on Shoshin right now shows me that this is more than likely a scum slot.

Varsoon is hard town here. I’ve recently gotten to witness directly both townVarsoon and scumVarsoon, and really I’ve known Varsoon for like 4 and a half years now, so I’m pretty happy with my read there.

Mewtaph is town for the wagon composition. Mustang and Nancy pushing onto a townie the way they did makes total sense, and then people, and scumShoshin, decide to jump on to Mewtaph.

This also semi incriminates Jjh slot, but I’ll let them catchup first.

I realize my slot will probably be tried to use as a counterwagon option after pushing Shoshone like this, so unless you wanna try to 1v1 me and out explain the damn awful play it would have been to let Mewtaph live in this situation as scum...well, go for it. I could have just kept not playing the game and allowing Profii to play in that situation. Mewtaph likely would have been killed.

So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Long story short, Only town are on the Shoshin wagon right now. Bet.


Hrrrrrkkkkkkkkk
This is still confbiased or agenda driven thinking....

I don't see how you just loljump to the conclusion that because you townread the entire wagon it must be on scum. that's a nonsensical conclusion and is actually heavily inconsistent with scumplay (you can't think both of our scumbuddies would just be hanging back while we go down surely. this is an optimal softbus/distance gamestate and it's radiant). an all town wagon us here is town indicative via vca and you're not convincing me on anything else.

I also don't townread the full wagon and don't understand why you do.

But your bizarre conclusions are more of a problem.


Going on this, I already stated I feel like Alchemist could be scum. And you have 3 votes on you, you aren't really going down. I also shaded JJH a little bit, and they were on you.

I feel like if you're scum, I halted the soft bus coming for you.

Actually, I forgot Kokichi was on you.

Everything I was talking about prior was being said without Kokichi on you.

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Post Post #1494  (isolation #116)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:40 am

In post 1492, Shoshin the worst wrote:Actually your Mewtaph townread is the bit I don't understand at all. I think you said the wagon is town because yoj townread him but you townread him due to his position on the wagon. If there's stuff outside of that clearly it soared over my head.



His general trying to solve the game. Updated reads lists. Plenty of things.

Why do you scum read him? Most reasons pointed out aren't scummy at all to me. NAI or townie.

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Post Post #1495  (isolation #117)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:41 am

He just had a lot of pressure on him. Of course his posting was gonna seem weird. It's what people push as "flailing" but town flail too.

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Post Post #1497  (isolation #118)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:59 am

I don't think his reads were nonsense, though. I liked them. I don't see where he froze up. I feel he's been here at least semi consistently too. He seemed to just be annoyed.

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Post Post #1499  (isolation #119)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:02 am

In post 1498, Shoshin the worst wrote:Do you think annoyed is AI when you're pushed back on heavily after putting out a lot of content which you probably think looks towny?


No, it's NAI. I liked his reads and reasonings for them. He had different reads, and I feel mine are closer in line with his than other people's.

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Post Post #1514  (isolation #120)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:04 am

In post 1513, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1262, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1222, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1221, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Does no one have anything to say about post 1195?

I could link the friends game Gamma talked about and say Nico lurking can go either way tbh


Was this the one where we partnered up and had two desperate games?

~Leaf


So no link?

Don’t le me down, Eraserhead.


I'm not the one who brought it up. I was asking myself.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1516  (isolation #121)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:35 am

In post 1514, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1513, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1262, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1222, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1221, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Does no one have anything to say about post 1195?

I could link the friends game Gamma talked about and say Nico lurking can go either way tbh


Was this the one where we partnered up and had two desperate games?

~Leaf


So no link?

Don’t le me down, Eraserhead.


I'm not the one who brought it up. I was asking myself.

~Leaf

Speak for yourself - I won mine :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=76964

~woof

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Post Post #1518  (isolation #122)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:47 am

In post 1517, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Nico might be scum here

it made me think she might be town but it's a bit wifom'y

like there are maybe 6 people in that game, now in this game, whilst some where in the 'other side' of that game, enough people know that Nico pushed lurking as her town meta so she should be conscious a lot of people wont trust her if she does the same thing - and we had a strong wagon, no surprise...

If she is the sort of player that uses her meta to sell her alignment then she needs to rebuild the trust so if she rolled a town PM, I think she would purposely lurk for her own personal long game meaning after this game as time goes on she can go "see guys, I do lurk as town"

I think that way because there was one time I was in about 3 concurrent game with Ausuka and I was a mix of T!ausuka/S!profii + a game of S/S so Ausuka was literally watching my scum game as my partner and my enemy - so I was purposely playing up to certain things to deceive her specifically (and it was working iirc, she mistakenly said I was a strong town read in the T/S game)

so I think some people will play with all their games in mind, not just each game in a bubble and I think Nico might do that here given the replace out - let someone town up the slot, Nico gets to say she town lurks.


~woof

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Post Post #1539  (isolation #123)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:59 am

In post 1525, jjh927 wrote:If you want to meta Nico then do so with the understanding that I replaced in on the slot because she didn't scumtell somewhere I would very much expect one and I like town games. Nico lurking isn't particularly AI ever, especially not now as I believe she's got some IRL stuff.

Otherwise, I have an hour lecture in 15 minutes and then I'll sort some other shit out, and then I will catch up on this game.

ok so you don't scum read your slot, that's a relief!

~ woof

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Post Post #1540  (isolation #124)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:14 pm

Can someone elucidate me too?

~Leaf

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Post Post #1560  (isolation #125)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:59 pm

:/
~Leaf

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Post Post #1597  (isolation #126)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:20 am

Anyone who doesn’t want to vote STW can you tell me why the difficulty of getting the wagon together isn’t scum indicative please

~ woof

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Post Post #1603  (isolation #127)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:31 am

I was checked out of YGM basically the entire time I was involved in it.
~Leaf

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Post Post #1621  (isolation #128)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:20 am

@Michael Scott

Why do you think STW is town?

I can see loads of posts saying you don't think he is scum but I cant see anything that says why you think that...

This makes me paranoid that you KNOW STW is town rather than THINK STW is scum


I mean if you are going to say something fluffy like you soul read one of S or TW can you at least say I know X does Y as town so I'm confident - examples would really help


because I'm like trying to work out if you are trying not to bus your pal and that's why the wagon is so hard or if you are trying to be like "see told you he was town" later and come off as "Ive got good reads" when actually you're just scum and know.


I implore everyone else to ISO Michael Scott, see if you can see any evidence of why he doesn't want to lynch STW - something fishy in there imo.


~ woof

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Post Post #1826  (isolation #129)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:01 pm

I’m around for a bit
Assuming the vote is down to me but if FL turns up I’m around to discuss

~woof

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Post Post #1838  (isolation #130)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:33 pm

I’ve only played with Taly a couple of times - he’s usually demands everyone interacts with him but he seems less demanding in this game

Not sure if that is AI

Pint seems more focussed

A50 seems less silly but that might be the hydra influence

Those are like my most notable differences but they are largely meaningless ha ha

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Post Post #1839  (isolation #131)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:34 pm

Was expecting more from JJ - don’t think I’ve ever played with him so idk what it means

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Post Post #1843  (isolation #132)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:38 pm

I just saw Ari scum and I don’t think this is scum play - I’ve never seen Nancy scum so idk 100% but I’m happy


I hate reading Koki when he posts so this is horrible

Alchemist, mew, u2 have fell off my radar

Varsoon mechanically not lynching today

I’d lynch Michael



Mmmm

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Post Post #1850  (isolation #133)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:41 pm

In post 1840, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1838, ProFlavor wrote:I’ve only played with Taly a couple of times - he’s usually demands everyone interacts with him but he seems less demanding in this game

Not sure if that is AI

Think about what he's actually done this game vs. that

tell me you don't have an AI read on it I dare you

He caught me as scum in a game but couldn’t get me lynched and he just demanded I answer his questions CONSTANTLY


I ignored him for 2 reasons - I was scum and it was funny but also - he’s playing a game with me, he’s not my boss, the demands were irritating as feck

He’s done it ~a bit~ in this game but not as much but maybe that’s just because it’s hard to be so sure this early

Maybe it means he is being rational in the way he conducts himself which is towny? Maybe he doesn’t want the spot light by making mad demands so early which is scummy

Head says towny I guess

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Post Post #1855  (isolation #134)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:47 pm

In post 1848, Shoshin the worst wrote:@PF is that fence comfortable?

I know

I was gonna do this then loads of pedits to read

Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) - would
Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) - nah
Varsoon nah
Almost Chara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) nah
Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) would
Kokichi Oma - nah
Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) nah
jjh927 nicorobin - reluctantly if we have to
Mewtaph - if FL wants to
alchemist21 - probably not
ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) - hallelujah
u r a person 2 - if FL wants to
pinturicchio nah
Taly nah


Would lynch
Nah - wouldn’t lynch
If FL wants to = if he is confident with his read, I’m not so he can trump me


Sometimes a game feels like it’s going towards a day 1 scum lynch - I feel like this game was doing that @ STW and now it’s not because everything is so unclear to me - this means a vocal player has probably muddied the waters enough which just circles me back round to wanting to lynch STW

This is all

~ woof

Btw

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Post Post #1858  (isolation #135)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:51 pm

In post 1857, Shoshin the worst wrote:I guess it makes sense for you to check in with your hydra partner before bussing lmao

That makes no sense

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Post Post #1870  (isolation #136)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:08 pm

In post 1864, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1855, ProFlavor wrote:Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) - would
Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) - nah
Varsoon nah
Almost Chara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) nah
Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) would
Kokichi Oma - nah
Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) nah
jjh927 nicorobin - reluctantly if we have to
Mewtaph - if FL wants to
alchemist21 - probably not
ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) - hallelujah
u r a person 2 - if FL wants to
pinturicchio nah
Taly nah


I don't understand why you phrased it this way for my slot and mew's slot specifically. It's not hydra dissonance in the way that I normally understand it, where you two disagree. It's dissonance in the sense that it seems unaware of - or at least it fails to incorporate - FL's repeated pronouncements that mewtaph is town and that I am town.

Am I reading something into nothing? Was there a thought process you had that made it make sense?

I scum read you early on but there was a lot of town reads heading your way which I don’t really understand so I just assume I m being slow

Therefore if FL has a strong scum read on you then he can vote because I’m not confident in any read bar STW tbh

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Post Post #1871  (isolation #137)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:09 pm

In post 1865, Shoshin the worst wrote:@urap2 notice anything uncomfortable about ProFlavor's reads?

Climb down off that fence and say you scum read me
Ha ha

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Post Post #1875  (isolation #138)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:14 pm

I just don’t think he is an amazing lynch right now - I think a more vocal player is directing us somewhere

I always struggle to read him so I’m kinda deferring an actual stance until there is more content

Plus if he is an actual IC and he activates it in the next hours, that’s a big mess - if he is town thats what scum want to happen because chaos with not long is their goal etc etc

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Post Post #1877  (isolation #139)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:14 pm

In post 1873, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1871, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1865, Shoshin the worst wrote:@urap2 notice anything uncomfortable about ProFlavor's reads?

Climb down off that fence and say you scum read me
Ha ha

I did pretty candidly lmao
Get your own sly shut-down. ;)

I added pro flavour to yours duh

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Post Post #1878  (isolation #140)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:15 pm

Ps netflix - catch up in an hour then sleep for me which will pass deadline - I have no idea on FL activity so erm yeah!

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Post Post #1889  (isolation #141)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:15 pm

In post 1883, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1874, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1870, ProFlavor wrote:I scum read you early on but there was a lot of town reads heading your way which I don’t really understand so I just assume I m being slow

Therefore if FL has a strong scum read on you then he can vote because I’m not confident in any read bar STW tbh


I'm trying to understand what info you were trying to convey to the rest of the players. Do you think there is much chance of FL finding a scum read on mew or me in the next few hours?


@pro

Above in case you missed it, but also, who is this more vocal player directing us? Are you talking about MS? Why this "I think the invisible hand directs us all" vibe?

I basically just wanted to scrawl down my thoughts to see if anyone went “definitely yes” or “absolutley not” to narrow some things down towards the deadline I wasn’t really trying to convey anything in particular

FL town reads Mew - without wanting to put words in his mouth it seems like FL empathises with Mew because he sees Mews reads as a little against the grain and I know FL likes it when people do that

It’s not clear what he thinks about you


I’m terms of the vocal player - I think in a few of my recent games, I’ve seen Day 1 scum lunches and the familiar pattern has always been a clear consensus that we should lynch that slot for some particular reasons - we seemed to be going that way towards STW imo but then the town bottled it which is why I think it seems like the STE wagon is a hard to push through wagon, which is usually indicative of scum

So why would such a good thing fizzle out? I don’t see how lurkers would be able to topple that momentum so it’s got to be within someone who is pushing against STW - that generally means STW is scum and we will find someone who doesn’t want to vote there

Who was the person that voted when STWs wagon initially died? That’s where I would be looking tomorrow (I think mew, despite FLs town read but I feel like he is kinda biasing himself because he sees his own town play within mew :P I’ve not told him that yet so it’ll be lols when he reads this)

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Post Post #1892  (isolation #142)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:28 pm

just noticed the extra day - sleep time for me then now

~ woof

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Post Post #1926  (isolation #143)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:41 am

I’ll check in, in a couple hours to see which genius has said we’re scum.

We’ve definitely been on scumand scum can’t make a cw stick if we’re getting votes ha ha

~woof

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Post Post #1932  (isolation #144)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:28 am

In post 1928, profii wrote:You’re voting me and you weren’t the first - what’s going on?

In post 1929, profii wrote:Right ok I see the logic

I haven’t fact checked but I’ll chuck my 2 penny worth in a bit once I’ve looked at a couple things

I'm rubbish sorry

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Post Post #1933  (isolation #145)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:32 am

In post 1930, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1928, profii wrote:You’re voting me and you weren’t the first - what’s going on?


How does my not being the frst matter?

I wasn’t a fan of your hydra partner’s posts.

I don’t want to vote outside of you, Mew, Pint, jjh.

I would prefer Mew but there’s too much resistance and Pint looking worse, also makes Mew look worse, as well. Since I felt that they were probably the same alignment.
Well this is a concern.

I voted STW
I voted Mew
FL unvoted Mew
I can't remember who voted STW but we both were happy with that vote.

but you are specifically unhappy with FL despite me being the main protagonist of this ISO?


Why me over Pint given he was picked up in Michaels case?

This stinks a bit I think

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Post Post #1934  (isolation #146)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:38 am

fwiw im not objecting to a mew lynch - I think I can talk FL into it if I have to. I'll look at Pint

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Post Post #1936  (isolation #147)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:46 am

and looking at pint I think the easiest way I'll sort him is if he could tell me his read and why on mew.

~woof

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Post Post #1937  (isolation #148)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:48 am

In post 1935, Michael Scott wrote:@STW, Join us on the ProFlavor wagon?

- Date Mike (Volxen)

If he does and we get flipped, lynch him tomorrow - I made the mistake in OK2 of not saying I am certain FL is scum before I died so I'm not doing it again.

TW knows me/my scum game well enough that he can't justify a scum read on me so if he strolls on to this wagon his is a scum element within it for certain

~ woof

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Post Post #1940  (isolation #149)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:30 am

wow

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Post Post #1958  (isolation #150)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:11 pm

pint sees the game pretty much as I do, I think I was asked what my read was - town and wasn't sure earlier... but town now.

~ woof

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Post Post #1959  (isolation #151)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:14 pm

In post 1957, pinturicchio wrote:Town: Varsoon, ProFlavor, AlmostChara, Tibor and Lumia, Alchemist21
Townlean: Mephistophanes (mainly because of Ari's posting), Mewtaph, URAP2
Null: Kokichi, jjh
Scumlean: Creature
Scumreads: Michael Scott, STW


I would change very little in this - however - I have never called a full scum team on day 1.

The slots I expect to swing are in everyone you've said leans. I'm happy to town bin all your towns and I scum read your scums.

I'm assuming I'm wrong on Mewt and I'm wondering if Mephi will be the first to swing the other side of the null line but then again 2 null slots will skew this when they become active I think as they will introduce new perspectives.

~woof

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Post Post #2039  (isolation #152)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:59 pm

I’m here for an hour then illl be asleep

It’s pot luck if I wake up before the dead line as it’s really close to when I get up and I’m not getting up early to hopefully just see we made a majority anyway in the night

So I’ll be watching Netflix and answering anything you lot want after

I assume FL will make an appearance but it’s a mystery

~ woof

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Post Post #2042  (isolation #153)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:00 pm

In post 2037, u r a person 2 wrote:@creature

You seem like an agreeable chap who hasn't read the game yet. How about lynching proflavor blind?

But then how would FL claim masons with him later :(

~ woof

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Post Post #2044  (isolation #154)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:02 pm

In post 2041, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 2004, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 2003, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1956, pinturicchio wrote:For posterity: Michael Scott is following wrong town!Nancy to wherever she goes.


This is patently false. I never voted Kokichi and I sheeped HIM on Eraserhead, so explain that.

I know you voted after him, but if you read again that interaction between both of you you'll see he said with other words what you were implying already, in order to get a "yeah that's what I thought" from you. Example: you started saying "Pint is going down on my reads" and there comes Michael Scott with some shade on me to get your attention. If I recall correctly, that happened with three different reads.


You have inferred that MS is both scum with Stw and as well, wrongly following town!me. That’s a complete contradiction. Which one is it?

Why can’t STW be scum
MS be scum
You be Town

And MS just sheeping you for (presumably) pocketing reasons

Obviously you disagree with those reads but the mechanics are fine

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Post Post #2051  (isolation #155)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:10 pm

In post 2046, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 2044, ProFlavor wrote:Why can’t STW be scum
MS be scum
You be Town

And MS just sheeping you for (presumably) pocketing reasons

Obviously you disagree with those reads but the mechanics are fine

Thanks. Pocketing a town player with wrong reads is a good scum strat, that's what I meant.

No need to answer my questions tho :roll:

The derp was irritating me

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Post Post #2053  (isolation #156)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:11 pm

In post 2051, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 2046, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 2044, ProFlavor wrote:Why can’t STW be scum
MS be scum
You be Town

And MS just sheeping you for (presumably) pocketing reasons

Obviously you disagree with those reads but the mechanics are fine

Thanks. Pocketing a town player with wrong reads is a good scum strat, that's what I meant.

No need to answer my questions tho :roll:

The derp was irritating me



Like to the point where the answer was obvious - I think I’m moving this into “playing ignorant on purpose territory”

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Post Post #2055  (isolation #157)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:12 pm

If there was more time I’d be advocating a lynch- if we dead tomorrow please consider, tyvm

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Post Post #2084  (isolation #158)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:59 pm

In post 2072, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:He was pocketing me by discrediting my very valid read on Mew for wanting to PL me?

Nope

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Post Post #2085  (isolation #159)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:59 pm

In post 2083, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 2055, ProFlavor wrote:If there was more time I’d be advocating a lynch- if we dead tomorrow please consider, tyvm


Who are you advocating a lynch on?

You

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Post Post #2088  (isolation #160)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:01 pm

In post 2082, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 2053, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 2051, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 2046, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 2044, ProFlavor wrote:Why can’t STW be scum
MS be scum
You be Town

And MS just sheeping you for (presumably) pocketing reasons

Obviously you disagree with those reads but the mechanics are fine

Thanks. Pocketing a town player with wrong reads is a good scum strat, that's what I meant.

No need to answer my questions tho :roll:

The derp was irritating me



Like to the point where the answer was obvious - I think I’m moving this into “playing ignorant on purpose territory”


Wtf does that even mean?

Really disliking this shade.
it means I don’t think you really believe that stuff I just nope to and you know exactly what me and Pint are referring

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Post Post #2090  (isolation #161)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:04 pm

In post 2075, Michael Scott wrote:By the way, where exactly is Flavor Leaf? There is no way that I see town!Flavor Leaf approving that BS lynch list that Profii posted in post . Auro, Flavor Leaf and I all played together in Newbie 1900 (link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=77781) -- Auro and FL were town in that game, and I was scum. FL was able to get an accurate townread on Auro on day one in that game, and Auro has made most of the posts on our hydra account in this game until I started posting more recently. I can't speak to how accurately I would expect town!FL to read town!me (since FL has never played with town!me before), but I don't see him completely misreading town!Auro in this game. I'm not saying that town!FL would necessarily have us as locktown here, but I don't buy that town!FL would approve a lynch list that consists of only {STW, Michael Scott}.

- Date Mike (Volxen)

It’s kinda funny that I made the point TW should know my scum game and shouldn’t be voting me and given the signing situation, suppose it could be shoshin voting me

Now you are saying FL should know you well enough to not be voting you


But does it mean anything

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Post Post #2125  (isolation #162)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:28 pm

In post 2115, Varsoon wrote:@Creature: How do I play

With a lot of quoting in the chess forum

If either of you want to play lmk or start a thread over there etc etc

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Post Post #2126  (isolation #163)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:29 pm

In post 2124, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 2118, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 2117, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 2110, pinturicchio wrote:Did you ask him directly why he said the thing about the PL on you? I can't recall neither you asking or him answering why he said that (with or without the question)


Well that’s been my point, he hasn’t and he totally was trying to engage me in SC1 and I should have realized that he was town, specifically for doing that. :facepalm:

Ok, fair point, I get where you're coming from with the PL thing now. Thanks Nancy.


Okay, I think you maybe town and this is definitely town!Creature, so town!Stw should realiize that.

What do you think about Eraserhead advocating my slot be the lynch tomorrow?

I said it should be considered - I’ve been assuming eraser head is fl and this is profii

Tsk tsk!

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Post Post #2141  (isolation #164)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:53 pm

The good thing for us is that there is some quite strong opinions

I was thinking Meph and MS could have been scum together but I don’t think 2 of 3 scum follow each other to drive a mislynch on me

This does draw me back to the point Pint made about MS pocketing Meph - so let’s say Meph is just wrong town, MS was just following Meph - that would insinuate that MS was letting wrong!meph lead a mislynch and that was on Mewp

Now almost the same thing is happening again, MS is encouraging Mephi to advocate for me


So this leads me to -


ms scum - trying to manipulate
Mephi town - being played by MS
STW - scum - Ms is trying to get a CW
Mewp town - a previous victim of ms manipulation

If you are following this, it should indicate we are another STW counter wagon


If someone held a gun to my head I’d say scum 3 is bussing already but that’s fine and I’ve no idea who rn nor does it matter as it’s iust a distraction


Interesting

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Post Post #2144  (isolation #165)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:56 pm

In post 2143, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 2139, pinturicchio wrote:I was talking to Michael Scott there, not you, Nancy. Also, I would ask you not to hyperbole some things: saying that Profil "automatically jumps to scumreading me and sketchily advocating for my mislynch, for absolutely no good reason" is in no way what happened. He hasn't said he's scumreading you, it wasn't sketchy since he explained why he would vote you (on the "shade" he threw at you).


Again. posts like this one, make me waffle again on you.

In what world his his push to mislynch me, not sketchy?

On occasion it has been know for town to be wrong

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Post Post #2162  (isolation #166)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:16 pm

1. I’m saying I think STW is scum and MS also scum, I’m betting that scum 3 is already on the STW wagon for the purposes of I’m about to sleep and I may get lynched so you need my dying declaration now

1b. Why on earth would I say scum is already bussing in reference to my own wagon implying I am infact scum? That’s where your logic seems to be going with that statement ??


2. I’m saying what if, given the post 1 and 1b refer to made me reflect and think you are town, that I was just wrong on thinking you are scum



It seems like we are miscommunicating a lot but hopefully we get a STW lynch tonight, I am confident in so I hope that’s a scum lynch and we can go into day 2 ready to review our reads and work together

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Post Post #2164  (isolation #167)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:18 pm

In post 2161, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 2042, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 2037, u r a person 2 wrote:@creature

You seem like an agreeable chap who hasn't read the game yet. How about lynching proflavor blind?

But then how would FL claim masons with him later :(

~ woof

I’d like this joke more if it wasn’t Flavor’s hydra partner
-Gamma, who has his share of shameful moments

Couldn’t resist given it came up around Creature and FL - jokes are more important to me than serious business all the time so :P

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Post Post #2420  (isolation #168)  » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:39 am

In post 2417, jjh927 wrote:Have I missed a section of the mechanicsy rules stuff which explains why positions mean anything

I think we are providing our moves to find out - I will when the turn comes, happy to do so whenever.

My reflection on day 1 was my reads were way off the mark so I'll try and make a chronological summary of which wagons formed on day 1 (etc) confer with FL a bit then see where we are at.

1 person I was pretty sure was scum (STW) was town and I became increasingly concerned with mephi towards the end of day 1 and they flipped town too so I'm just not on the money in this game I guess...


~woof

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Post Post #2427  (isolation #169)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:18 am

We didn’t bother submitting an action, assume FL was away and I didn’t see the point if I don’t know what it does

~ woof

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Post Post #2438  (isolation #170)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:00 am

for those who have played with Varsoon more than once, particularly scum!varsoon

I don't believe he is conf-town just because ~vig claim obz~ - he keeps saying he would die, so if you were the vig, claiming apparently = death, so you keep quiet and hope town pressure varsoon and lynch...

so

varsoon said he cant hit scum - he "missed" STW and there was no info to explain this.

one info could be the seemingly unusual play list mechanic which we don't know about.

or

we need to decide if scum!varsoon goes balls out, not fully explaining, but sticking to his IC claim - noting that scum shot the person who was advocating for the Varsoon lynch today, should STW flip green (tbh I missed that on day 1 but I do agree)


I want to see Varsoon shoot someone today, if it fails I'd lynch... but I'd also like to know if Varsoon would double down on this claim that doesn't really fit as town or scum or both


~woof

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Post Post #2439  (isolation #171)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:03 am

In post 2429, Michael Scott wrote:ProFlavor, thoughts on Creature? I agree with A50's assessment.

VOTE: Creature

~Jimothy

im not like omg we caught scum but there is nothing outrageous in the AC post and it seems like a viable wagon.

wanna just probe varsoon a bit first tbh

~woof

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Post Post #2441  (isolation #172)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:03 am

;)

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Post Post #2443  (isolation #173)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:04 am

:cool:

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Post Post #2444  (isolation #174)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:05 am

some people are saying creatures scum meta is changing and he is posting more as scum so I dunno if he would slip back to old ways if that makes sense - that's why I'm not jumping right on it

I'm not a great creature reader - if FL comes in and says AC has him dead to rights I'll roll with it

~woof

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Post Post #2462  (isolation #175)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:06 pm

im Unconvinced

Vig could just hope we lynch the fact Varsoon shot a blank thus enabling town to realise the real vig is still about

Perhaps the real vig thinks of themselves more as an IC than a vig because they think they might team kill, so it’s more important to declare IC later

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Post Post #2463  (isolation #176)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:06 pm

Oh and
~woof

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Post Post #2473  (isolation #177)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:05 pm

In post 2464, Varsoon wrote:So this is where I shoot ProFlavor?

Do it :D

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Post Post #2476  (isolation #178)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:12 pm

In post 2472, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 2462, ProFlavor wrote:im Unconvinced

Vig could just hope we lynch the fact Varsoon shot a blank thus enabling town to realise the real vig is still about

Perhaps the real vig thinks of themselves more as an IC than a vig because they think they might team kill, so it’s more important to declare IC later


I would think it more likely that a vig takes a shot at one of the lurker slots as a target. Varsoon gets exposed as a liar, and vig has killed either a scum slot or someone that Town wouldn’t be sad to lose.

Maybe a shot got blocked and the vig doesn’t want to claim but right now all signs point to Varsoon telling the truth here.

I mean I am not convinced and no one has come up with a concrete reason as to why the IC/vig would not counter claim- Varsoon isn’t getting to LyLo or whatever without shooting I guess but right now this is all a distraction

Varsoon simply has to shoot and all is confirmed - we can trade me for his IC status if you’d like but the above/below logic is probably worth testing at the same time


I am going to start making my assessments of the wagons from yesterday in the hydra thread to give FL a shortcut as I feel like this vig issue is starting to become a distraction

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Post Post #2477  (isolation #179)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:13 pm

In post 2474, pinturicchio wrote:Hey woofer, is Leafy out there, or gave some input about EoD? Like what does he think about STW being town?

Dunno where he is :-/ you’re stuck with me for now

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Post Post #2483  (isolation #180)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:03 pm

In post 2478, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 2477, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 2474, pinturicchio wrote:Hey woofer, is Leafy out there, or gave some input about EoD? Like what does he think about STW being town?

Dunno where he is :-/ you’re stuck with me for now

You're lovely too. Same question for you then.

I’ll come back once I’ve looked at the wagons

I was happy to go with the Varsoon on day 1 but the longer we go without evidence of his vig claim the more ill want to lynch tbh

I thought STW was scum and I think there will be a clever scum within the people that appeared town - that happened to me before and I’m getting the same vibe

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Post Post #2484  (isolation #181)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:05 pm

In post 2480, Varsoon wrote:ProFlavor, are you roleblocking me?

Nah I want evidence of your claim

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Post Post #2534  (isolation #182)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:18 am

Wow, I have a lot to catch up on. Hopefully the next day or so.

~FL

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Post Post #2603  (isolation #183)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:55 am

In post 2588, Michael Scott wrote:Questions I want answered:
1. FL's read on me
2. ProFlavor's read on Creature
3. Mew's read on Creature, and why he didn't comment when that wagon was forming

I said in the PT that Creature feels like Naucis Large 2030 (see my wiki)

Where Creature was scum, ironically FL thought he was town and fake claimed masons - scum!creature rolled with it and then just did this relatively disengaged style that he doesn’t do as town

So scum read from me

~woof

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Post Post #2605  (isolation #184)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:56 am

Has Creature claimed?
~woof

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Post Post #2611  (isolation #185)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:28 am

In post 2606, u r a person 2 wrote:no but i gave intent over a day ago so that's his choice ya know

so are you saying I should hammer?


ms wrote:@ProFlavor: Where's Flavor? What's Flavor's read on me?

~Jimothy

no idea and no idea sorry

~woof

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Post Post #2630  (isolation #186)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:58 pm

I am happy to vote Creature but I’ll just wait for FL to see this and he can make the call

~Woof

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Post Post #2633  (isolation #187)  » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:03 am

VOTE: creature

~woof

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Post Post #2767  (isolation #188)  » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:27 pm

Happy to follow Varsoons list if people want me to go...

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Post Post #2797  (isolation #189)  » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:52 pm

Just the normie role that lets you move up or down one

Haven’t used it.

~FL

I probably should have waited for Profii.

I am not caught up

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Post Post #2978  (isolation #190)  » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:53 pm

so what do i need to know

~woof

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Post Post #3000  (isolation #191)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:06 am

Intent to hammer JJ - Varsoon was L-1 I think.

The case makes sense from MS & the fact he was the anti-wagon yesterday adds up given the town flip we got.

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Post Post #3051  (isolation #192)  » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:42 am

VOTE: jjh927

I think we've had enough of this.

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Post Post #3222  (isolation #193)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:20 am

Varsoon and MS are you sticking to your claims ?

And MS are you explicitly saying you did not move down?

~ woof

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Post Post #3224  (isolation #194)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:23 am

Infact I’m just going to out this

FL fake claimed according to that spreadsheet screenshot - I haven’t read what he claimed but we are not a zergling

We are a hydralisk - it says we can only move when we are near a VT

So we were between Varsoon and MS who both seem to be PRs on the spreadsheet thing

That means we shouldn’t be able to move

~~~~~but we did~~~~~~


~woof

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Post Post #3227  (isolation #195)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:26 am

In post 3225, Michael Scott wrote:Lol, I see that question as a scumclaim. You're hammered; you are scum, right?

Are we? Nope - one of you/Varsoon is a Vt

I am not sure if VT == scum goon in the way our role works

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Post Post #3232  (isolation #196)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:30 am

In post 3229, Michael Scott wrote:I'm X-shot Bulletproof Ascetic. Both are modifiers, dunno if that makes us "vanilla" or not.

You came to say this *now*? After you're hammered? :facepalm:

I’m a busy guy but that’s legit what can I say

~ woof

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Post Post #3234  (isolation #197)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:31 am

In post 3231, Michael Scott wrote:Paraphrase your role PM? Cause if it specifically says "Vanilla town" and you're town, that confirms my slot at least.

When you are very close to a VT you can move bla bla bla

It’s no clearer than that, but it specifically says vanilla town

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Post Post #3244  (isolation #198)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:36 am

In post 3241, Mewtaph wrote:You were between MS and Varsoon N2. If you are the role you claim you are, then why didn't you move on that night?

Genuinely only read the PM yester-game-day

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Post Post #3248  (isolation #199)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:40 am

Alch and fire should predict our flip rn

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