Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

[u r a person 2]

Okay, Mephistophanes

There's hydra dissonance between ari and nancy over both the signing posts bit and shoshin's phrase usage. I can see a scum motivation for taking opposite sides of an argument surrounding hot early game topics because the game board is still being set so staying flexible is most valuable during this stage of the game.

Others have pointed out that dissonance can be townie, and I think there is a fair amount of history or baggage that I may not be fully understanding regarding ari and signing in particular. So I'm calling this NAI, but if anyone more experienced with ari wants to chime in, that would be neat.

I like nancy's argument in 111. I'm not scum reading stw anymore, but it is still a good post by nancy.

I like ari's read on alch in 212 and agree.

I like Nancy's progression on stw. It seems organic. The same is true for the progression on taly in 331. I believe it. I think that is nancy talking, but it's unsigned and I'm not sure.

There is a lot of noise in this slot, and if I'm missing something I should be scum reading, that's why. Nothing popped out, though. Town lean.

[pinturicchio]

I was playing Overkill II very protective of myself, whereas I don't think I've got much to fear in this game.

Well this is exactly what I thought so good to know you're self aware of it. That could be consistent with your alignment.

-Turicchio

[Shoshin the worst]

Since this never got a good point to be brought up, I am townreading Alchemist rn. His solving looks genuine and he’s quite present. Matches my concept of town!Alchemist over scum!Alchemist.
-Gamma Quadrant
PEdit: I’m assuming that’s Shoshin asking me that since I’ve played with tw a lot recently. Idk about U2, I’ll figure it out and post it in a full readlist later most likely.
Also, if tw and U2 form a hydra it should be called Detroit Become Human.

I was wondering why you hadn’t mentioned me yet. It was getting weird.

Alchemist, as someone who has no experience whatsoever in playing with you: how would you be reading yourself, if you were another slot in this game? (Sorry for the annoying question. I'm going somewhere with this I promise.)

Town.

Could you throw me a couple of things which you think are unlikely to come from scum!you this game so we can tighten up our read?

Scum me these days gets nervous and avoids posting, especially if someone like Gamma or RC who I know can read me well is present. As it’s been said to me before there’s a certain thoughtfulness in my Town posting that my scumgame lacks. My Townread on Ari is a good example of that.

Nice, we had an almost identical conversation about that post. At first we weren't entirely sure how to parse it (the reasoning was a bit abstract compared to the more commonplace meta townclears) but the more we spoke about it the more we started to think there's probably no reason to make that post at all, as scum. The timing was also nice.

One of our heads has a habit of tunnelling experienced players who haven't played for a while but you still came out as "probably town".

[Shoshin the worst]

@URAP2 it is alarming me that you're reading slots by whether or not they look scummy at face value, rather than the kind of sorting I'm used to enjoying from you. wrt newbie 1905/07 you made a major conscious effort to get inside people's heads which I feel like you're a step or two withdrawn from here. That case on Mephisto this page boils down to "they've got good optics so they're probably town but I might be wrong" -- this presents more like a mislynch mindset than a sorting mindset. :<

For what it's worth, I feel Nancy and Ari are fairly obviously town. In addition to the optics of taking different sides on arguments etc., don't forget that they've been so actively engaged in the thread and to me, at least, nothing they've done feels pre-planned. I know this dips into meta territory but I don't think either of them has the scumrange to float through the thread this smoothly. And I don't think what they've done is pre-planned. I think while I was reading your case I was waiting for something more decisive, something with meaning.

Hold on a tick.

[Shoshin the worst]

Only the thoughts I gave you. Looking at it further,

The last two lines are funny in the context of the thread. I wouldn't put it past a scum to make that comment pretending not to have caught up as a troll

I have no idea what is record is of reading you, so I can't really evaluate that claim or his motivation for asking you to sign.

he's not playing any other games so I'm willing to believe he's disengaged, although his rvs post did seem excited to play (and why not?)

Are you seeing something here? because I'm having trouble getting much of consequence.

With respect to the bolded/pink this was a strange conclusion to jump to. You've seen pintu's scumgame. He's pretty capable of pocketing the duck head of this hydra like, without even meaning to. He's also pretty smooth as scum.

Do you really think there's a decent chance that scum!pintu has sneakily read the thread, sat there and thought about it, and decided to irritate and exposed slot including the duck who he's good at pocketing by making this post, rather than just going in for a softpocket?

Given his scumstyle and the smooth way he presents himself, do you think it would occur to scum!pintu AT ALL to make this post? I feel like its potentially not outside his scumrange, but it'd be a fairly strange evolution of his scumrange.

(for the record I know I'm not equipped to convincingly towncase pintu yet - but I think the missing level of reasoning from you here might be scum indicative).

[Shoshin the worst]

@STW

@Taly, we will discuss this before giving a proper response but we've gotten the ball rolling. Can I just ask, what is your intention with this post? On first impression I feel like you are pleading with us to nullread you/treat your earlier posting as NAI - is that a fair representation? If not a quick glimpse into your brain would help a great deal.

[u r a person 2]

@ProFlavor Your game so far consists of pushing me for pushing Pintu, and pushing nico for their entrance. I agree with you that they're not the same push

but I think your slot is coasting as either alignment. FL doesn't seem to be playing, and Woof isn't doing much. Can you talk to me about your town read on T&L?

[Shoshin the worst]

also for everyone who disagrees with me on STW, give me a SIMPLE bullet-pointed list on the reasons their posting is scum-motivated

*optional challenge because y not?*
convince me how Mephisto isn't scum

Mephisto may be a demon but they are town.
- Ari's unrestrained defence of our hydra dynamic is town motivated & I fail to see a scum motivation in it.
- he's the more frozen head as scum by some margin and he's been the one reacting to posts in real-time
- Nancy has reads and has reacted to certain things in the thread (e.g. us vs. Varsoon!) which I don't think she'd be able to easily weigh in on as scum.
- I do not think Nancy antagonises us by reading us incorrectly so soon after 6p in Starcraft Mafia.

There's a tonne of tiny reasons to complement this but overall, I'm having a really hard time seeing scum motivation in that slot's actions at all. The fact they continuously townpost adds to this.

[Shoshin the worst]

I'm also not really sure why you scumread/dont townread Alchemist, and I'm not sure why you're voteparking Kokichi given the more active slots here don't feel sorted yet. If it comes close to deadline I think Kokichi is an excellent contender for a policy lynch, but we have time to do more spicy stuff.

[u r a person 2]

Do you really think there's a decent chance that scum!pintu has sneakily read the thread, sat there and thought about it, and decided to irritate and exposed slot including the duck who he's good at pocketing by making this post, rather than just going in for a softpocket?

Given his scumstyle and the smooth way he presents himself, do you think it would occur to scum!pintu AT ALL to make this post? I feel like its potentially not outside his scumrange, but it'd be a fairly strange evolution of his scumrange.

Okay, good. I thought I had missed something obvious. With respect, I think you're off on this one, mate.

So, I DO think scum!pintu likely tries to pocket town!tw this game, but I don't think this post precludes it. Pintu the person is a smart guy with a sense of humor and a bit of flair so I think it is possible that he would find this sort of light trolling amusing, regardless of alignment, but especially as scum.

Further, what about this post has stopped scum!pintu from being able to pocket you? You don't seem to be scum reading pintu, so I'm not sure why this would be a concern of his. I mean, he unvotes you in the same post.

Lastly, he was posting a "im here will catchup" post that he didn't end up keeping. If this is scum!pintu, and he wasn't intending to catch up last night, then the second half of the post might have been his attempt to send town back into a fruitless discussion for a hot minute while he wastes time.

Whatcha think?

[Taly]

@STW

@Taly, we will discuss this before giving a proper response but we've gotten the ball rolling. Can I just ask, what is your intention with this post? On first impression I feel like you are pleading with us to nullread you/treat your earlier posting as NAI - is that a fair representation? If not a quick glimpse into your brain would help a great deal.

Full transparency on all my posts directed and about you, my read on you, and my assessment of your read on me.

also for everyone who disagrees with me on STW, give me a SIMPLE bullet-pointed list on the reasons their posting is scum-motivated

*optional challenge because y not?*
convince me how Mephisto isn't scum

Mephisto may be a demon but they are town.
- Ari's unrestrained defence of our hydra dynamic is town motivated & I fail to see a scum motivation in it.
- he's the more frozen head as scum by some margin and he's been the one reacting to posts in real-time
- Nancy has reads and has reacted to certain things in the thread (e.g. us vs. Varsoon!) which I don't think she'd be able to easily weigh in on as scum.
- I do not think Nancy antagonises us by reading us incorrectly so soon after 6p in Starcraft Mafia.

There's a tonne of tiny reasons to complement this but overall, I'm having a really hard time seeing scum motivation in that slot's actions at all. The fact they continuously townpost adds to this.

fucking finally, someone is on my level and is explained their thoughts around Mephisto town, because I was really trying hard to see if I missed some sort of tell but now I'm a bit more confident townleaning there.

I'll dissect and look more into the past page of votes/responses tonight or tomorrow. (Particularly u r a person 2's wagon)

I will say, I do like pin's catchup post a good bit off reading it, I'll reread it again for more comprehension.

[u r a person 2]

Someone (brass?) asked me earlier if my town reads was just a list of the top posters

it basically is now, and frankly, I like that. This game feels like a big old town circlej

[pinturicchio]

Um, pretty weird stance that started from "I'm voting to sort pin", are you scumreading me now or not? 'Cause I already caught up, URAP2.

-Turicchio

[u r a person 2]

Um, pretty weird stance that started from "I'm voting to sort pin", are you scumreading me now or not? 'Cause I already caught up, URAP2.

-Turicchio

Hi Pin,
TW asked me if scum!you would ever make that post. I answered that yes, I think scum!you could make that post. At no point did I make any argument that the post was outside of your town range.

And I know that you walled me. I'm digesting it, and I fully expect to engage with you about it and other fun topics. I hope you don't mind waiting a bit?

[Shoshin the worst]

Do you really think there's a decent chance that scum!pintu has sneakily read the thread, sat there and thought about it, and decided to irritate and exposed slot including the duck who he's good at pocketing by making this post, rather than just going in for a softpocket?

Given his scumstyle and the smooth way he presents himself, do you think it would occur to scum!pintu AT ALL to make this post? I feel like its potentially not outside his scumrange, but it'd be a fairly strange evolution of his scumrange.

Okay, good. I thought I had missed something obvious. With respect, I think you're off on this one, mate.

So, I DO think scum!pintu likely tries to pocket town!tw this game, but I don't think this post precludes it. Pintu the person is a smart guy with a sense of humor and a bit of flair so I think it is possible that he would find this sort of light trolling amusing, regardless of alignment, but especially as scum.

Further, what about this post has stopped scum!pintu from being able to pocket you? You don't seem to be scum reading pintu, so I'm not sure why this would be a concern of his. I mean, he unvotes you in the same post.

Lastly, he was posting a "im here will catchup" post that he didn't end up keeping. If this is scum!pintu, and he wasn't intending to catch up last night, then the second half of the post might have been his attempt to send town back into a fruitless discussion for a hot minute while he wastes time.

Whatcha think?

Definitely doesn't preclude it but I still don't see why you just assume that post comes from scum before it comes from town. There ie indeed a great bit catchup cooling off ITT which I don't think you've addressed yet.

I agree pintu isn't locktown from that post but this feels like you're trying to fit the post around pintu being scum, rather than trying to parse the post a few levels down and glean his alignment from it.

I'm not saying you're guaranteed to be wrong, I'm just finding the mindset behind achieving that read concerning.

[Shoshin the worst]

Hold on if you don't think it's outside his townrange and it wasn't scum indicative and he was promising to catch up, why ever vote him over say Nico or Kokichi?why are you still voting him now he's caught up if you were null on that post?

[pinturicchio]

Oh ok understandable take care (I'm memeing, I'll be waiting you).

It's Turicchio by the way, Pin is playing Smash right now.

-Turicchio

[Shoshin the worst]

Which head is the worst in love with?

[pinturicchio]

Which head is the worst in love with?

That would be Pin. He send his regards.

-Turicchio

[Shoshin the worst]

Which head is the worst in love with?

That would be Pin. He send his regards.

-Turicchio

the worst sends his regards right back.

[u r a person 2]

TW, you asked me to analyze a very thin iso, and then a very thin post. I know that you and I both think there is value in taking close looks at otherwise inconsequential posts, and I gave you a full faith effort for precisely that reason. It's pretty sneaky to then turn around and read my response to that thought experiment as if I claimed those thoughts were engraved on stone slabs from god.

p.edit
I voted him over those others because I think I can read Pintu, so him moreso than those others I want to play.

I'm still voting him because I'm working through both my read of his big catchup and how I want to approach the slot.

Damn can a person get some space to play

I'm not asking for much time. I'll be on it this afternoon here. let it breathe

[Alchemist21]

Taly did you see my reasoning on Town Mephisto? I explained it after you first asked for someone to do it and you never responded to it so I don’t know if you just didn’t see it or saw it and decided it didn’t count.

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE:

I’m not feeling the STW scumread anymore.

[Taly]

I think mephisto giving outs makes them Town. Scum-to-Town wouldn’t give an out at all, and we know scum have daytalk so if they were scum together I imagine that giving them an idea on how to excuse their play would have happened in the scum PT. Town gives outs like that when they want to consider the possibilities without jumping the gun. It’s a fluffy slot but I think that’s mostly Ari being Ari.

overlooked this, going to ISO the hydra and see your points then ^_^

[Shoshin the worst]

TW, you asked me to analyze a very thin iso, and then a very thin post. I know that you and I both think there is value in taking close looks at otherwise inconsequential posts, and I gave you a full faith effort for precisely that reason. It's pretty sneaky to then turn around and read my response to that thought experiment as if I claimed those thoughts were engraved on stone slabs from god.

p.edit
I voted him over those others because I think I can read Pintu, so him moreso than those others I want to play.

I'm still voting him because I'm working through both my read of his big catchup and how I want to approach the slot.

Damn can a person get some space to play

I'm not asking for much time. I'll be on it this afternoon here. let it breathe

Having someone give an elaborate explanation of something pretty simple often gives more insight into mindset, than having them quickly summarise something quite a lot lengthier. But that's fine, we'll let you breathe for a bit. <3