Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

Shoshin the worst
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Post Post #575  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:05 pm

In post 564, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 531, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 529, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 372, u r a person 2 wrote:my town leans right now are
STW -tone,play I think TW is trying to use his experience modding and playing with me to read me and that's why he's asking me for my thoughts about specific posts.

I found this in your ISO, your progression from this to your latest read there seems highly unnatural.
Did you just notice that you were inferring who was authoring them? You had nothing to say when their (lack of) signing was a talking point of the game?

~Detective Michael Scarn


I called them scummy for it early in this game when people were talking about it.

Then they stopped signing, but I could tell who was writing and I kind of felt that was their compromise, if that makes sense.

I don't understand why you think it is unnatural? I was expecting TW to want to see thought process in order to read me precisely because of our prior experience, so at the time that checked out. Now, having given him something to work with, Ithink it's likely that he finds a town read on me if he is town.

p.edit The other half of what? I'm not following, Mephisto

Why do you think town!tw townreads you here? Specifics please
Why do you think scum!tw doesn't townread you?

Also yeah we put the squeeze on slots we want to be able to read, that's exactly what we're doing

@urap2 this one would help more.
Selfmeta is hard to do as scum. It's also a playstyle type thing so I'm not gonna tunnel it. But you can't expect town!tw to loltownread you when we have respect for the calibre of your game and are seeing scumtells in your ISO which we've explained.

This is a very weird standard to hold someone too and it's utterly invalidated by the fact you can't back it up with anything concrete.
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Post Post #576  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:05 pm

In post 571, Almost Chara wrote:based on Nico's meta, i'm townleaning her slot for now. slightly.
~Chara

Me too. 1%.
Varsoon's meta comment made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.
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Post Post #577  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:09 pm

in this list I could confidently pocket Taly, Nancy and you. I could give it a go with pintu but I'm not sure it'd get me anywhere. I used to be able to pocket brass but posthiatus I'm not sure how he'd take it. So I think me scumreading you and not cutely backing down when you started posting is not remotely a scumtell.

I don't understand why you think there's no town motivation in our slot pushing/scumreading you. It's pretty simple. We scumread you.
The fact you can't engage with me about why we shouldn't scumread you or should townread you had me baffled.

Imagine in newbie 1907 for example if you and Nauci had fleshed out why you were misreading each other day two. think about how that kind of conversation might play out as an example.

sorry there's few ways to illustrate my point effectively here
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Post Post #578  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:10 pm

this is the kind of post that was written by one head.
[wiki] hydra of Almost50 and Chara.
[Win:Loss] T 2:2, S 1:1, 3P 1:0

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Post Post #579  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:11 pm

In post 578, Almost Chara wrote:this is the kind of post that was written by one head.

what a post to not sign.
~Chara
[wiki] hydra of Almost50 and Chara.
[Win:Loss] T 2:2, S 1:1, 3P 1:0

Shoshin the worst
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Post Post #580  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:11 pm

yeah, I'm willing to own that it's obvious which head is posting. still no point signing and I don't think my other head would be anything but equally as confused as I am.
secretly the capitalisation tell works on us sometimes too :shifty:
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Post Post #581  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:12 pm

How are you reading our {URAP2, pintu} bracket Chara?
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Post Post #582  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:17 pm

and i was referring to .

Varsoon, you feel like chatting with me some more? i didn't react to your triple vote because it just didn't register to me as something that needed it. players fakeclaim day 1 all the time.

i think STW is pretty towny. i've been reading your arguments for them to be scum (i know it isn't the signing thing) and it just isn't very convincing.
i don't find it scummy that they thought they were getting scumread for the signing thing, because other votes on them were for that reason.
i don't find it scummt that they said you were tunneling, because that's a pretty natural thing for town to think when a player they're townreading isn't letting up on a scumread as they attempt to engage.
~Chara
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[Win:Loss] T 2:2, S 1:1, 3P 1:0

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Post Post #583  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:19 pm

okay, i really don't like doing self meta, but you seem to be insisting

You seem to be reading me with a burden of proficiency when you, having watched and played with me should know that my early reads have been consistently awful.

I town read pintu out of the gate in 1907, didn't scum read yyotta
I scum read cheeky, and pvturist

In 1907 I townread urist before I pushed him, and then I prepared to jump off that wagon after getting reactions (evidence in pt)
I also town read FC for most of day 1

I scum read Elements for an error that was proven unmeaningful and I don't remember my other scum reads

In 1909 my d1 reads were good but basically because I town read teacher and just sort of sheeped him the rest of the way.

Where you should be burden of proficiency reading me, and where your vision of me comes from is post flip reads


I still don't want to go into details about this game in particular, just put this game up against the 1905 pt and find the read.
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Post Post #584  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:20 pm

In post 580, Shoshin the worst wrote:yeah, I'm willing to own that it's obvious which head is posting. still no point signing and I don't think my other head would be anything but equally as confused as I am.
secretly the capitalisation tell works on us sometimes too :shifty:

it's more like it's obvious that only one of you is posting, often.
i just don't always know who that is, as i explained to Ari earlier. i'm guessing you're ducky?

on U2 and pintu, i've read them and have no strong feelings either way. sorry for the disappointing answer. i can give your thoughts on them another look if you want.
~Chara
[wiki] hydra of Almost50 and Chara.
[Win:Loss] T 2:2, S 1:1, 3P 1:0

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Post Post #585  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:34 pm

In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I don't understand why you think there's no town motivation in our slot pushing/scumreading you. It's pretty simple. We scumread you.
The fact you can't engage with me about why we shouldn't scumread you or should townread you had me baffled.


I believe that there can be a town motivation for scumreading me. I didn't say town!you town!reads me 100%

We can post game why I'm not into reading myself in the thread. It basically boils down to the wifom/not wifom discussion you're in the middle of and my having no interest in having those types of discussions
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Post Post #586  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:34 pm

In post 583, u r a person 2 wrote:meta,

We honestly can't apply BoP because we have no idea what people's alignments are. More that we think the subconscious mindset you've presented with some of your reads has been scum indicative.

We really don't believe in reading people via bop at all. Categorically.

I was looking for some stuff in this game which I should townread. Sorry if this felt like a breakthrough but I'm not sure how to see anything AI in the BoP argument. It might be slightly towny because of the disconnect maybe? But then scum who are caught for the wrong reason often react the same way. So I'm quite net null on it :(
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Post Post #587  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:36 pm

In post 584, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 580, Shoshin the worst wrote:yeah, I'm willing to own that it's obvious which head is posting. still no point signing and I don't think my other head would be anything but equally as confused as I am.
secretly the capitalisation tell works on us sometimes too :shifty:

it's more like it's obvious that only one of you is posting, often.
i just don't always know who that is, as i explained to Ari earlier. i'm guessing you're ducky?

on U2 and pintu, i've read them and have no strong feelings either way. sorry for the disappointing answer. i can give your thoughts on them another look if you want.
~Chara

Our reads are calibrated, even when it's just one of us posting. Sorry for going on about hydra dynamics. We should probably focus on something else.
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Post Post #588  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:39 pm

In post 585, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I don't understand why you think there's no town motivation in our slot pushing/scumreading you. It's pretty simple. We scumread you.
The fact you can't engage with me about why we shouldn't scumread you or should townread you had me baffled.


I believe that there can be a town motivation for scumreading me. I didn't say town!you town!reads me 100%

We can post game why I'm not into reading myself in the thread. It basically boils down to the wifom/not wifom discussion you're in the middle of and my having no interest in having those types of discussions

The problem we're having here is that you kicked off this rabbit hole discussion by voting us because you believe town!tw should be townreading you, plus the hydra dynamic which for the umpteenth time should not be deemed alignment indicative.

I'm trying to parse how you came to the conclusion that it's scum indicative for us to be scumreading you and pushing you just because the worst and you have history. I still do not understand your rationale here.

If you think TW should >rand be townreading you, we definitely need a better metric against which to measure your towntells, because it means what we are doing at the moment is on the wrong track.

This conversation is pretty important. If you do need to back out of it for holistic playstyle/meta reasons we understand but also please try to see that from our perspective, that leaves you joining out wagon late into its formation for almost exactly no reason...
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Post Post #589  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:40 pm

What I mean by bop is not that the reads are right or wrong necessarily, just that you seem to be setting a high bar, or bop, asking me to analyse what is a fairly nai post and wanting me to come up with the conclusion you had in mind. It feels like a trap, and it especially feels that way considering all of our history includes me coming up with bad reasons for reads early

Whatever. How about talking to me about Taly?

I'm starting to get this feeling that he came into the thread, made that play to get town cred, and is now coasting on that
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Post Post #590  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:43 pm

In post 588, Shoshin the worst wrote:The problem we're having here is that you kicked off this rabbit hole discussion by voting us because you believe town!tw should be townreading you, plus the hydra dynamic which for the umpteenth time should not be deemed alignment indicative.

I'm trying to parse how you came to the conclusion that it's scum indicative for us to be scumreading you and pushing you just because the worst and you have history. I still do not understand your rationale here.

If you think TW should >rand be townreading you, we definitely need a better metric against which to measure your towntells, because it means what we are doing at the moment is on the wrong track.

This conversation is pretty important. If you do need to back out of it for holistic playstyle/meta reasons we understand but also please try to see that from our perspective, that leaves you joining out wagon late into its formation for almost exactly no reason...


Am I not talking to TW right now? This is why this signing thing is annoying and scummy.

I think I'm vote number 2 on you. I'm starting this wagon, not coming on late.

I think the most productive direction for me, and probably for town!you as well is for us to move on to a different topic.
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Post Post #591  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:44 pm

In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I could give it a go with pintu but I'm not sure it'd get me anywhere.

I'm pocketed without the need of you doing anything <3

@Varsoon, I have a towntell on the duck, on the same line of your "stretch your minds" of Shoshin. I've seen the duck using the "holistical reads" as town before and can't recall him doing it as scum.

By the way @duck, why scumreading us? Felt like it came out of nowhere.

-Pin

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Post Post #592  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:46 pm

This is STW. There's no reason you can't talk to TW through this hydra and you're still tunnelling our signing thing.
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Post Post #593  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:47 pm

In post 591, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I could give it a go with pintu but I'm not sure it'd get me anywhere.

I'm pocketed without the need of you doing anything <3

@Varsoon, I have a towntell on the duck, on the same line of your "stretch your minds" of Shoshin. I've seen the duck using the "holistical reads" as town before and can't recall him doing it as scum.

By the way @duck, why scumreading us? Felt like it came out of nowhere.

-Pin

We originally had you as maybe-town for a couple of reasons. Your catchup felt rhetoric-heavy, and your conversation with URAP2 didn't feel natural (unsure on who's part, or whether both, yet). If you are town I'm sure we'll see it.
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Post Post #594  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:48 pm

I was just venting frustration there, apologies. If we're going to cooperate at all, we're going to have to agree to disagree on whether that is scummy because you're right that we shouldn't spend more time discussing it.
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Post Post #595  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:49 pm

In post 589, u r a person 2 wrote:What I mean by bop is not that the reads are right or wrong necessarily, just that you seem to be setting a high bar, or bop, asking me to analyse what is a fairly nai post and wanting me to come up with the conclusion you had in mind. It feels like a trap, and it especially feels that way considering all of our history includes me coming up with bad reasons for reads early

Whatever. How about talking to me about Taly?

I'm starting to get this feeling that he came into the thread, made that play to get town cred, and is now coasting on that

Taly could go either way - we need to have a proper conversation about him and mesh our thoughts before we're going to get anywhere productive.

How do you feel about AlmostChara, Alchemist & ProFlavor?
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Post Post #596  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:51 pm

ill get to this thread later, my college classes started today

from skimming, id like to see STW actually respond to certain posts that they say they're formulating a response for

U2's making posts with more than 1-sentence explanations fort their thoughts :D

i keep forgettin proflavor, nicorobin, and kokichi are in this game.

if someone wants to make things easier to navigate through the threads content, ask me questions
"The human race is bad at reading Taly." ~the worst
"Taly I knew your slot was scum and I still struggled to find arguments to SR your play lol" ~Infinity 324
"Taly wins for the most fence-sitty reads in a game ever" ~Battle Mage

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Post Post #597  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:52 pm

In post 593, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 591, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I could give it a go with pintu but I'm not sure it'd get me anywhere.

I'm pocketed without the need of you doing anything <3

@Varsoon, I have a towntell on the duck, on the same line of your "stretch your minds" of Shoshin. I've seen the duck using the "holistical reads" as town before and can't recall him doing it as scum.

By the way @duck, why scumreading us? Felt like it came out of nowhere.

-Pin

We originally had you as maybe-town for a couple of reasons. Your catchup felt rhetoric-heavy, and your conversation with URAP2 didn't feel natural (unsure on who's part, or whether both, yet). If you are town I'm sure we'll see it.

Aaaah so that's why is one of us in your books? Ok that makes sense, I couldn't get it. Yeah it was rhetoric-heavy but it was content-heavy too, I think.

I addresed in my catchup that you asked urap2 about me not to get a read on me, but rather sort urap2 better; was I right or wrong? Were you trying to sort me before I caught up?

-Pin

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Post Post #598  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:53 pm

@STW: Point out where I said anything about no more handing out townreads and I'll show you how the context is absolutely different. Stay sore.

@AlmostChara: If the thread isn't locked by the time I get home, we can jam.
I don't know why anyone's doubtcastin' the vig, since it should town-confirm me
And I get the added bonus of blowing down scum-Shoshin
A++

-V

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Post Post #599  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:55 pm

ProFlavor's game is remarkably light.
They are scum reading one person for lurking, me for voting a lurker, and T&L because they always town read them early, as far as I can recall.

They also have a bunch of naked town reads. Currently trying to engage that slot, but I don't have any reason to town read them

I'm still reading almost chara as town. They had that lynch pool early and I could understand the worldview they were living in to have that pool. Since then they have not stood out much to me, which means nothing pinged me.

Alchemist, I am currently sheeping a town read on. He's on the list to dig into. I'm sure you can see that I've been slowly hopping from one slot to the next
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