Mini Normal 2046: Autumn's Farewell [Endgame]


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Post Post #1254 (isolation #200) » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:08 pm

Post by mbaki »

:shifty:
In post 1253, OkaPoka wrote:self voting is never good except as scum.
When is self voting good as scum, aside from hammering to limit information (not the same thing of course)

When you're in the newbie queue, you're taught self voting is never ideal. This is good, because newbies should not be self voting. They are also taught not to gambit, because the rule of thumb is it's not worth it, but gambitting is 100% situationally optimal in high level play. Self voting at the time was good, and then it wasn't so I moved my vote. Have you ever been in a game where scum self voted, got lots of town cred from that appeal to emotion, and then went on living for a while coasting from that? I've seen scum attempt to self vote once or twice, but it hasn't ever worked out because it is never good play.

The crumbs are not equal things, so that doesn't matter.
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Post Post #1255 (isolation #201) » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:10 pm

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In post 1252, Suka wrote:Yyotta flip was expected. I thought it was a bad lynch to begin with.

The nightkill isn't too surprising either. It changes my read on Varsoon to town. It doesn't impact my read on Vorkuta. Yes, his interactions with rb look bad but I don't think scum Vorkuta ever kills him. Oka's still too stupid to be scum.

mbaki might be scum but it's something I'd rather contemplate after lynching my top suspects.
You are in la la land if you think you can vote a random other slot, not case it or try to convince people, and expect the lynch to not be myself or Vorkuta. Might as well just switch your vote back to me if you aren't going to proactively argue for your lynch, it's useless where it is now.
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Post Post #1256 (isolation #202) » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1188, Vorkuta wrote:
In post 1183, Suka wrote:What're your reads, Vorkuta?
I have a problem reading players like Varsoon, Creature, Leodanny, and Kmd, so I'd like to wait until they get back here.
My entire case is that: I'm not scum, yet people have decided that for whatever reason # has been misinterpreted as 'scum!vork is traitor hunting'
I'd like to see who supports this stance and who doesn't. From that I can decide whether it's scum coordinating a mislynch on me, or genuine townies reading this as scum behavior.
His response to a direct question acting for reads, yet again, is to not actually give a single read.
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Post Post #1262 (isolation #203) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:20 am

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In post 1261, OkaPoka wrote:i dont know what ur pointing at creature

can we go back to the better two wagons than whatever this is
He's pointing at the fact rb's "crumbs" to me can't be crumbs because my partners can't be Creature and Vorkuta because there's only two scum left.
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Post Post #1264 (isolation #204) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:57 am

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If you want to get really into it, traitors fake crumb to get people mislynched. Post 17 was in response to creature asking when we are serious, so it was prompted by word choice.

And you, Oka, now need to do leg work because people are voting outside of myself and Vorkuta. Good luck!
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Post Post #1268 (isolation #205) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:07 am

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In post 1267, Nero Cain wrote:you know, each time I see Oka be all like "oh Vork os prob scum but lets not lynch him" just screams buddies that wants one last night action from Vork.
Perhaps.

In a survey conducted by MIT (can't find the source), >90% of people tested believed they were in the top 50% of people in terms of intelligence.

http://teacher-mr-davis.yolasite.com/re ... SlxUdusaAo

At least Suka and Creature are never going to case, and Varsoon is hardly playing the game period, so good luck with that. I called Suka out already, but realistically people just don't case often.

The point of my last post was more to point out, there are now lots of people not even wanting to lynch in myself and Vorkuta, including 3 of the more experienced players in the game. This is because crumbs are not all that important for here, because clearly the crumbs weren't enough for the scum team to actually catch or the traitor wouldn't have been the night kill.
That
is on top of the fact players like rb could more than conceivably fake crumb, as they may have been consciously doing with me; fake crumbing is an effect strategy because traitors can't live until end game regardless and it gives their team stuff to work with.

I disagree, I think Vorkuta saw rb's "wow imo"s, falsely thought they were crumbs, and then didn't put enough value into a random early game interaction with rb. I also think Vorkuta was just a good bet for scum before today anyways. I think the way Vorkuta worded the question to rb, "are you scum" coming
right after
his "are you crumbing", is implicating. I think the fact that's the first usage of any variant of crumb/crumbs/crumbed/crumbing he's used on site is implicating.

You, Oka, disagree, because you think I'm scum. There's only 2 scum in this game, so not all of those 4 + myself and Vorkuta can be the scum, which means your position is falling. It is now on you to defend it, or to vote Vorkuta and accept that lynch over these random other vanity wagons that nobody's casing.

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Post Post #1285 (isolation #206) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:07 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1275, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1273, OkaPoka wrote:im saying why its anti town not to case
oh, it is. I'm a firm believer in "people play like shit to improve their scum meta"
Absolutely is, yep (to both of you).
In post 1271, Nero Cain wrote:I kind of agree with KMD that Vork killing RB is a little funky but not impossible. Like, its totally possible he (or his scumbuddy) forget about that interaction or didn't think that was a traitor interaction.
As I said my friend, a combination of recency bias and the fact rb was pushing Vorkuta would likely be enough. Thinking that was a pr soft over a traitor soft is also a possible factor.
In post 1276, Suka wrote:Cases are a crutch for bad players. I'm not making any unless it's LYLO and necessary to avoid my own mislynch. As a matter of practice, cases lead to mislynches more often than lynches based on organic consensus / collective intelligence.
Cases aren't a crutch, they're a way of convincing people to follow your desired lynch. If you are bad at forming reads, cases are bad. If you have reads more accurate than random, cases are good because it gets your scumreads lynched.



But anyways, on the topic of the game: Suka, nobody is gonna vote with you unless you case it because you're going against the grain. If we get to post game and BEF endgames, you don't get to say you were right because you didn't put any effort into actually getting them lynched. Just a comment.
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Post Post #1288 (isolation #207) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:26 pm

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In post 1284, northsidegal wrote:[1] mbaki : Vorkuta 1119
[1] Varsoon : Creature 1033
[1] BrightEyedFish : Suka 1168
[1] DrDolittle : Varsoon 1257
[1] Suka : Kmd4390 1260

[1] Not Voting : Leodanny
Lol.
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Post Post #1296 (isolation #208) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:43 pm

Post by mbaki »

Please don't townread that awful post because it has a lot of words.
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Post Post #1299 (isolation #209) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:48 pm

Post by mbaki »

I already am typing a reply.
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Post Post #1300 (isolation #210) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:11 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1294, Vorkuta wrote:snip
This post has a lot of words, but the vast majority of it is just subtly flinging shit at me. I think Vorkuta's partner told him to post reads and a lot of words because that's the best way for scum to get rid of an l-1 wagon on them, and this is a stage of the game where scum really can't afford to bus. I am going to respond to every word here and demonstrate why it is scum.

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Now's a good time to do my reads probably: I'm torn here. 

Is there real scum on my wagon? Or is scum trying to protect me because lynchbait/they expect my lynch to go through and will have perfect scapegoats come D3/D4? Obviously I'd love to completely town read suka and varsoon for defending me, while  scum reading NC and mbaki for the BS that they conjure up my way. However that would me the most obvious conclusion and I doubt scum that is obvious: that was my entire reason for clearing suka early on in D-1 in the first place.

Paragraph number 1 says, well, nothing. Rhetorical questions are an actual scum tell, but aside from that, he doesn't take an actual stance here. As in, this pagraph says
literally nothing
.

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Sure browsing mbaki's ISO doesn't exactly reveal him to be the paragon of friendliness. However, he's conveniently USING his horrible personality to deflect all reads and lynch attempts by saying 'well you don't actually SCUM read me, you hate me as a person and thats akin to policy lynching'. This, plus his wagon, screams powerwolfing to me, coupled with the fact that he "gave up because he had no value to town this game" but then magically decided to be able to clearly see rb's crumbs and that life was worth living after all. Its like his scum chat collectively decided- hey mbaki, don't off yourself just yet and he reconsidered.

First of all, this is a very personal attack (as is this whole post, such as with the constant use of bullying) and I don't appreciate it. The first sentence was fine, and then you followed it with "his horrible personality". You nitpicked one thing I've said towards Oka as to why his vote was on me, twisted it, and said "defelcting all reads". It is level 1 posturing. And I didn't "magically decide to see rb's crumbs", Nero brought it up. My scum chat collectively is 1 other person in the world where I'm scum, because there's only 2 scum alive, and we've been over this many times but I really,
really
appreciate you trying to ham up the ignorant newbie card.

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NC's posts read that of a cynical player that won't have any of this WIFOM attempts and trying to pick agendas with players on this site. He could go either way.

This is gibberish.

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Oka has been [strike]harassed[/strike] bullied by mbaki the entire time so there's that- I read a lot of genuine frustration.

I don't think I have been bullying Oka, if anything its a sign of respect how much effort I've put into talking to him. Buddying attempt noted.

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I can kind of relate to the player who's sick and confused of the initial RQS/RVS stage tries to do experiment with something new but has been shot down and scum read for.... said reasons. Oka then follows this up with the most active questioning, asking specific players to give  reads, and overall trying to solve the game in general. I town read this but feel betrayed at you putting me and DDL at L-1

Word choice is buddying here too. "Feel betrayed" after a full paragraph of complimenting here. Like, if a first time player read the wiki page for buddying and tried to put it into practice this is what would spit out. "You're a great person and y our play is good except the part you vote me that's not cool sad betrayal :mad: :mad: :mad:"

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Suka reads as someone who has successfully avoided a wagon and is now trying to force push a BEF agenda. Obviously in my situation I would love to townread then and assume that they have special insight (PR much?) into BEF's alignment, but this tunelling makes me suspicious. I almost want to see the fallout that Suka will have to go through after a BEF flips (either way). I'm not going to scum read someone who wants to defend me and include me in their town core without better reasons.

The wagon Suka "successfully avoided" is mine... lmao? This is a good time to highlight that this entire post is literally just full of wiki words. "Force push a BEF agenda" has 3, and agenda doesn't even make grammatical sense there. It is, again, why this post is a lot of words but completely awful.

I would like to put extra emphasis on the last part of this paragraph though:
I'm not going to scum read someone who wants to defend me and include me in their town core without better reasons.
Vorkuta is
literally townreading those who townread him reflexively
. This is not a town mindset at
all
.

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Creature has been meta read to hell and back and when he's not lurking he's hyper posting. I'll defer to the rest of you on what his alignment is because the amount of fluff posting and completely unwarranted random 'X is town' or 'X is scum' without any explanation and selective ignoring of certain questions screams scum to me.

Sure.

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Varsoon I town read for the same reason I town read Suka- I don't believe, not for a second, that this lurking, V/LA, and just avoiding interactions is scum!varsoon's play. Sure this gameplay/style is tremendously different from my first game ever with him, but scum!Varsoon would put up much more of an interesting fight than.... this.... what he's doing now

You do town read him for the same reason you town read Suka- because you believe he scum reads me and town reads you! V/LA is not alignment indicative and it is quite literally against site rules to fake V/LA, and he isn't avoiding interactions, he's V/LA. Everything in this paragraph is NAI, and it shows there is no critical thought here because there is no fight for Varsoon to put up... I don't think he's ever had a wagon greater than a vote in this game.

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Plus
[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=10621388#p10621388]post 957[/url], Varsoon"]I'm a horribly reactionary player. 
I need to improve on this.
I need to be more proactive.
Just sitting around and responding and waiting for something to catch my eye as THIS IS SCUM doesn't cut it in games like this.[/quote]
is self reflection and I town read this.

Except Kmd did self reflection too, that later in this post you say is scummy?

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Now for KMD- most of what he says I almost 90% agree with and I like how he's trying to consider every and all options. However... I get the feeling that there's a bit of LAMIST in his posts plus (again) I'm cynical of statements like this.
[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=10598437#p10598437]post 223[/url], Kmd4390"]My scum game is just me trying to match my town game.[/quote]

Neither of those is alignment indicative really because self-reflection is a playstyle thing in the context you're using it, but I like how you use it as a way to keep Kmd lynch door open and pocket Varsoon :cool: :cool: :cool:.

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BEF has been bullied by mbaki (and a few others :P) as well and is currently trying to interpret rb's crumbs slightly more objectively and without as much cherry picking as mbaki is. Seeing as rb's posts are the only things that we can use to solve the game, I town read this (and have no idea on how to react to Suka's push)
However this strikes me as... interesting [quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=10620974#p10620974]post 942[/url], BrightEyedFish"]I'm vigging you tonight anyways so I don't care what you think.[/quote]

What "cherry picking" am I doing? Don't use words you don't know the meanings of, same with your usage of "agenda". rb's posts are also hilariously not the only things we can use to solve the game. You also completely ignored in this post that at least one person rb was scumreading has to be scum for him as a night kill to make sense.

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DDL used a nice AtE early on and ended up as VT. As I said before, I'd like to think scum is classy enough to not stoop down to an AtE, and I think scum optimally claims anything but VT as it provides disruption, an opportunity to get conf!town read, all but guarantees them not to get lynched, and is overall the winning play for scum. His hope of delaying a lynch to not give the V/LA guys a free pass is something I town read.

This paragraph, again, says
nothing about DDL's alignment
. It begins with "scum doesn't AtE", when
the wiki literally has Appeal to Emotion as a common scum tell
and
he is scumreading me for my AtE
. Then it says "scum doesn't claim VT", which is just wrong as they do about half the time statistically and it says nothing specific to DDL.

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Leodanny is probably using the newbie card more strongly than I am, but his posts seem to come from newb!town rather than newb!scum (yes, I changed my mind after parking my vote on him for a bit early on in D1). V/LA so....

Leodanny is not a newbie. All I have to say to this, lol.





The only not awful paragraphs here is the Creature one and possibly the first Varsoon one. Not awful, of course, meaning passable and not outright scummy. This is why newbie scum don't usually try to wall; because they simply can't do it.
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Post Post #1302 (isolation #211) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:15 pm

Post by mbaki »

Great. Can we lynch Vorkuta and 1v1 tomorrow, then?
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Post Post #1306 (isolation #212) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:20 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1155, mbaki wrote:I have no clue as to Leodanny's alignment
In post 1222, mbaki wrote:I legitimately could not remember a Leodanny post without searching his iso
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Post Post #1307 (isolation #213) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:21 pm

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In post 1305, Creature wrote:Can you hold on before lynching Vorkuta?
Yeah, we aren't lynching him until Leodanny is replaced.
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Post Post #1309 (isolation #214) » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:38 pm

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The only personal attack there is possibly 586. I think my posts towards Fish are the only ones that can be considered personal, and I apologized for that.
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Post Post #1334 (isolation #215) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:21 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1323, Creature wrote:
In post 1288, mbaki wrote:
In post 1284, northsidegal wrote:[1] mbaki : Vorkuta 1119
[1] Varsoon : Creature 1033
[1] BrightEyedFish : Suka 1168
[1] DrDolittle : Varsoon 1257
[1] Suka : Kmd4390 1260

[1] Not Voting : Leodanny
Lol.
You see: no real counterwagon attempt. The only players actually doing something are all targetting each other.
This is such an awful argument, man. I was at l-2 so you could call me the counterwagon, but he only has 1 partner and that's only 1 vote to start one. There's 4 other wagons total.
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Post Post #1345 (isolation #216) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:57 am

Post by mbaki »

I'll get to the rest later, but Creature, can you link a town instance where you've defended somebody similarly to this?
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Post Post #1359 (isolation #217) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:27 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1334, mbaki wrote:he only has 1 partner and that's only 1 vote to start one. There's 4 other wagons total.
This was the important part of that post. The "no counterwagons" argument is dumb when there's no team to create resistance.
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Post Post #1361 (isolation #218) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:38 am

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I was voted by several people, and a couple more voiced a desire to lynch me at a time when it looked like I was going to be the lynch and there was no need to rush things. Also, keep in mind that once I started pushing Vorkuta, on my town flip it is very likely Vorkuta goes next and scum has a
long
way to go after shooting their partner, so it almost makes sense they'd try to lynch outside of myself and Vorkuta.

Nero, what do you make of the last Creature chain of posts? And this part is at Creature too: the reason I asked for a game where Creature had a similar defense to this is I was wondering if town!Creature has ever done this, because Creature "casing" as he has done for Vorkuta town is not what I'm used to. He spent a page of posts largely defending Vorkuta, and this is close to the opposite of what I've seen of Creature on both MU and MS. Specifically, I've seen Creature disagree with lynches, and he has never put close to this much effort into stopping them.

I don't want to get mad at somebody for playing "better" than they normally do, but it feels an awful lot to me like Creature and Vorkuta could be the solve and that's an explanation for this lurking -> defensive posting. I don't want to say that though, at least yet, because I appreciate Creature engaging.
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Post Post #1364 (isolation #219) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:56 am

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So do you think Creature and Vorkuta are partners, or are the reads seperate?
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Post Post #1366 (isolation #220) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:05 am

Post by mbaki »

Vork flip needs to be the flip today, but even if he's town I don't really see Oka as scum.
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Post Post #1371 (isolation #221) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:16 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1367, Nero Cain wrote::igmeou:

use your words.
His play doesn't feel very scummy to me. I guess that's all there is to it. I don't have him as a strong town read at this point, but he's not in my top 3 and probably 5 slots to pursue.
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Post Post #1374 (isolation #222) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:19 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1373, Creature wrote:
In post 1366, mbaki wrote:Vork flip needs to be the flip today
Are you ready for a townflip?
I've thought about it as a possibility. The strongest point for it is him killing rb despite rb claiming scum to him. Overall, though, it seems wildly unlikely and razor would have me lynch Vorkuta. This is doubly so because I wanted him lynched yesterday as well.
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Post Post #1442 (isolation #223) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:17 pm

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Ooh, a good replace in. This'll be fun. At the range right now so I'll catch back up later.
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Post Post #1503 (isolation #224) » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:12 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1501, Dannflor wrote:
In post 1499, OkaPoka wrote:that's like the definition of preflipping

i dont know if preflipping is ever a smart thing to do
I- Are you calling "having reads" preflipping?
Welcome to this game.
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Post Post #1547 (isolation #225) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:03 am

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Which I've said about 5 times.
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Post Post #1553 (isolation #226) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:11 am

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In post 1549, Creature wrote:It'd be more effective if we just ignored whatever crumb rb possibly did and just focused on determining why rb was NKed.
Was he killed for scumreading Vorkuta?
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Post Post #1555 (isolation #227) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:13 am

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In post 1554, Creature wrote:
In post 1551, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 1549, Creature wrote:It'd be more effective if we just ignored whatever crumb rb possibly did and just focused on determining why rb was NKed.
I think he was NK'd because he was openly SRing all scum members and they panicked and shot him.
We're back to:
In post 181, Vorkuta wrote:@rb- are you like... breadcrumbing with your 'wow's everywhere?
Is this your scumtell? :P

As for the Yyotta lynch- she won't come back except to basically 'prod-dodge'.
She pulls this stuff in her other games with her acting surprised an RVS vote, and the resulting 'why meeee?'
I'd support the policy lynch on her, but it's very much NAI, and her flip either way won't give us anything (unless we jackpot a scum PR :mrgreen: )
Why did Vork ignore this?
I've answered this about 5 times too.
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Post Post #1561 (isolation #228) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:20 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1443, OkaPoka wrote:there are more people than just mbaki who dont like the activity level

but none of us except for mbaki self voted
Not that tried to do anything about it.
In post 1386, Creature wrote:
In post 1384, OkaPoka wrote:is that ur case
In my land someone blatantly prod-dodging, refusing to do shit and thread-dodging is always lynched with fire.
Yea. I would kill Varsoon, but rb was townreading Varsoon. We still need to find the at least one scum slot rb was pushing that caused him to get night killed before we go after people like Varsoon.
In post 1437, Dannflor wrote:the case on mbaki is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've seen
This is a great site, isn't it? It's going to be extra fun tomorrow when you get night killed and they're back to pushing me.

Multiquoting on mobile is awful.
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Post Post #1565 (isolation #229) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:23 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1469, Dannflor wrote:Scum just doesn't self vote, not experienced players. It never plays to their win condition unless it's a hammer. Rarely, town can self vote and it does play to their win condition.
I said this too. It doesn't work here.

You need to talk to me on Vorkuta, because I agree fish's posting is bad (I pushed them d1) and I still don't think I can ever unvote Vorkuta here. I think he's just scum and you are overthinking.
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Post Post #1572 (isolation #230) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:39 am

Post by mbaki »

Even Vorkuta's dumb questions on this page feel disingenuous to me, a good sign if conf bias.
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Post Post #1576 (isolation #231) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:22 am

Post by mbaki »

What's the point of posting 1575?
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Post Post #1579 (isolation #232) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:56 am

Post by mbaki »

Theoretically, no. Practically, yes. 1575 is a useless post.
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Post Post #1582 (isolation #233) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:04 am

Post by mbaki »

Quote me all of my posts where I've done that?
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Post Post #1583 (isolation #234) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:07 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1580, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 1579, mbaki wrote:Theoretically, no. Practically, yes. 1575 is a useless post.
I'm sorry it's not up to your standard.
My standard is not posting generic things that apply to literally everyone. Saying "if I believe his claim I will move my vote" does not advance the game, it's an excuse to post words and sound smart.

If Varsoon reveals as innocent child I will not vote him.

If I think Vorkuta is town then I will move my vote.
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Post Post #1585 (isolation #235) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:15 am

Post by mbaki »

2 of the 3 posts you quoted progress the game. I mentioned MU once, as part of a conversation. Are you sure this is a conversation you want to be having?
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Post Post #1587 (isolation #236) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:30 am

Post by mbaki »

They're part of posts that also gave thoughts on the game. The first one was part of a conversation about my playstyle and activity, and the third one was informing people there was no chance there are 3 scum left, very useful and needed info.
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Post Post #1590 (isolation #237) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:37 am

Post by mbaki »

That is actually a great segway into the fact I am willing to evaluate, Nero went froma top scum read to a top town read. Nero showed he was town. Vorkuta did the opposite and reassured me he was scum.
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Post Post #1592 (isolation #238) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:47 am

Post by mbaki »

It was town. I don't feel as great about it anymore. I would still say in that direction. However, he is definitely not Vorkuta's partner, he's too good to kill rb after Vorkuta shit, so it can be strong town if Vorkuta reds.

Nero and Dann are the town reads I'm super good on right now. Other than that, I really need flips.
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Post Post #1594 (isolation #239) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:08 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1592, mbaki wrote:I don't feel as great about it anymore. I would still say in that direction.
This was in reference to if Vorkuta flips green.
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Post Post #1596 (isolation #240) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:33 am

Post by mbaki »

If it makes you feel better, Fishy is probably where I'm pushing if Vorkuta ends up town. I doubt they're ever partners though.
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Post Post #1597 (isolation #241) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:35 am

Post by mbaki »

Also, you'll notice I started off the day saying the crumbs are dumb while Oka and friends wagoned me for rbs "crumbs".
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Post Post #1603 (isolation #242) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:04 am

Post by mbaki »

Creature, there was definitely scum on my day 1 wagon. I, a confrontational player, did not get 3 town votes and have my wagon fizzle out. I am pretty sure its Vork, could be Fish, but I'm confident 1 and only 1 is.
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Post Post #1605 (isolation #243) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:09 am

Post by mbaki »

Iso me. I pushed Vork a lot day 1, so a ctrl + function search should get results. Most of my points against him aren't traitor related.
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Post Post #1620 (isolation #244) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:40 am

Post by mbaki »

My mind tells me Creature can't post this much as scum but my heart tells me Creature is Vorkuta's partner.

My heart also tells me I love seeing Creature argue for things, regardless of his alignment.

No, I don't think Vorkuta's personal posts are alignment indicative.
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Post Post #1621 (isolation #245) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:40 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1618, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 1615, Creature wrote:
In post 1607, Dannflor wrote:So this post is bad because it might be construed as a cop claim and be fishing for something like that
He faked a guilty on Overkill 2

as town
Ive faked several guilties.
This explains so much.
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Post Post #1623 (isolation #246) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:42 am

Post by mbaki »

I think I'm going to say Creature is town, too.

Nero, thoughts?
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Post Post #1625 (isolation #247) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:01 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1308, Vorkuta wrote:
In post 1300, mbaki wrote:First of all, this is a very personal attack (as is this whole post, such as with the constant use of bullying) and I don't appreciate it.
Spoiler:
In post 503, mbaki wrote:I have great disdain for your style of play
In post 503, mbaki wrote:I much prefer MU to this site, the quality of games is signficantly higher in my experience.
In post 522, mbaki wrote:but I am bored of this interaction.
In post 586, mbaki wrote:I possibly think you're obnoxious and childish
In post 1049, mbaki wrote:I am not going to bother interacting with Fish because I think I will rage sub if I continue.
In post 1051, mbaki wrote:Please stop talking to me. I do not like you nor respect your play
In post 1077, mbaki wrote:You didn't do shit, and I dont know why getting reads out of you is like pulling hairs.
In post 1141, mbaki wrote:I think he's just awful
In post 1255, mbaki wrote:You are in la la land


Pot calling the kettle black much? But I'll tone down my rhetoric from now on.
(While I appreciate this)

He never responded to any of the post other than the addendum. Lol.
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Post Post #1641 (isolation #248) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:50 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1627, OkaPoka wrote:
In post 1568, Vorkuta wrote:Then why would rb breadcrumb scum if it goes against rb's wincon?
crumbing is important to traitor so scum knows who you are

otherwise might as well be playing with one less player on scum team, and setup probably not balanced around that
This isn't true though. Traitors can easily just be antitown and disregard their partners, and/or fake a guilty mid game to secure a mislynch when necessary.
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Post Post #1642 (isolation #249) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:51 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1628, OkaPoka wrote:even if u ignore rb crumbs, i still think there is enough reason to lynch mbaki
Tunnelling is not a reason.
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Post Post #1643 (isolation #250) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:53 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1637, OkaPoka wrote:when does town self voting play to their win condition


scum self votes to AtE
I already answered this. Dann also pointed out where my frustration grew from the start of the day.
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Post Post #1644 (isolation #251) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:54 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1640, Creature wrote:
In post 1633, OkaPoka wrote:i guess that rb might have been thinking diff but shouldn't it be standard for traitors to crumb?
No
Is the tally 4 people that have told Oka this now?
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Post Post #1647 (isolation #252) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:37 pm

Post by mbaki »

Dann is town Nero. His scum game is markedly less analytic than what we've already seen. Also, you could try and argue you're townier than me in this player list, but you definitely haven't impacted the game as much. Pissing contest aside though, town bloc with Dann and start sorting other slots.
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Post Post #1657 (isolation #253) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:03 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1650, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1647, mbaki wrote:Dann is town Nero.
maybe, idk. He has one scum read and its not Vork. He is essentially defending Vork and singular scum hunting and I could see both coming from scum. Still feel like his lack of interaction with my slot is odd.
Your presence is consistent, but it's pretty lowkey. Like, you're always here, but you're not getting into arguments with people. I don't find it weird he hasn't talked to you, especially because I think you're town and if he came to the same conclusion there isn't much to talk about. We just completed a game together too where his meta was discussed if you want to read, it's my only other game on this alt on site.
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Post Post #1659 (isolation #254) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:04 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1656, DrDolittle wrote:not sure - that's why i want to discuss this. if bef's goal was to hit people who are town read, he would go you or oka, who are doing more stuff. if he wanted to relieve pressure off himself, suka mbaki are better directions.

don't know why scum-bef targets rb
rb was scumreading him and was the most widely townread player. That's plenty reason, considering we don't know who the hypothetical third was.
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Post Post #1663 (isolation #255) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:19 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1661, DrDolittle wrote:
In post 1659, mbaki wrote:rb was scumreading him and was the most widely townread player. That's plenty reason, considering we don't know who the hypothetical third was.
but this line of thought works EXACTLY the same for vork, but stronger.

like im trying to think... is there anything that applies to BEF re: rb that is more incriminating than Vork re: rb
I'm voting Vork and so is Nero, so you're arguing against deaf ears here.
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Post Post #1667 (isolation #256) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:32 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1623, mbaki wrote:I think I'm going to say Creature is town, too.

Nero, thoughts?
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Post Post #1672 (isolation #257) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:41 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1669, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1647, mbaki wrote:Dann is town Nero.
Why didn't you do this for me? Like, apparently Dann town reads everyone but BEF, though he has a light town read on me. Kinda hedgey though.
Do what for you?
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Post Post #1676 (isolation #258) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:45 pm

Post by mbaki »

Oh. Didn't think to. If Dann was talking about paranoia about your slot I would've.
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Post Post #1678 (isolation #259) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:50 pm

Post by mbaki »

I haven't read from a computer since he subbed in, so I guess I missed the Nero part considering all of his pushing has been Fish.
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Post Post #1681 (isolation #260) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:54 pm

Post by mbaki »

You aren't a lurker though.
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Post Post #1693 (isolation #261) » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:17 pm

Post by mbaki »

Woah.
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Post Post #1717 (isolation #262) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:20 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1706, DrDolittle wrote:Scum 99.8 percent on the lynch block does not claim VT? Do they?
Yes, they do. Lol.
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Post Post #1718 (isolation #263) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:22 am

Post by mbaki »

Claiming a PR means you can't endgame in all odds, risks a counter claim, and looks suspicious. Moreover, Vorkuta's play is pretty clearly not PR play so faking one there would have been very questionable.

For the I don't even know how many'th time this game, scum claim PRs about equally to VTs and this circumstance is nothing special. Especially because he is not "99.8% on the lynch block" with the Fish wagon and how many people are arguing it.
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Post Post #1719 (isolation #264) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:23 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1694, BrightEyedFish wrote:What's the point of posting 1693
What's the point of posting 1694
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Post Post #1721 (isolation #265) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:28 am

Post by mbaki »

I have an idea!

If you think Vorkuta is scum, vote him. If you think he is town, don't!

No "too wolfy to be a wolf". No "why would he kill rb after that crumb". No "scum would claim PR".


Noting again that I am very confident this is a red flip and I would like it to be lynched.
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Post Post #1725 (isolation #266) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:52 am

Post by mbaki »

Actively posting elsewhere on site is a much worse look than not posting anywhere though.
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Post Post #1729 (isolation #267) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:55 am

Post by mbaki »

Not strong enough for a full clear on a Vorkuta scum flip, but I agree that doesn't sound partnery.
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Post Post #1731 (isolation #268) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:55 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1728, Creature wrote:He should be at prod range disregarding the V/LA, so we wait yet again and tbh we could just compromise on Vork.
Yea, Vorkuta can be hammered in 3 or 4 days. The mod should deal with Varsoon by then hopefully.
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Post Post #1740 (isolation #269) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:24 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1734, OkaPoka wrote:He is lot townier than the last game I played with him, like is more active and thoughtful
Was he scum in that game?
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Post Post #1742 (isolation #270) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:30 am

Post by mbaki »

I'm confused if you're arguing him being different in his last game makes him town or scum here.
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Post Post #1747 (isolation #271) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:52 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1745, Nero Cain wrote:Do I want to flip a scummy VT that's not scum hunting? Yes, yes I'm ok with it.
And ignoring posts calling him out, yes.

I still don't think lynching YYotta was a mistake.
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Post Post #1748 (isolation #272) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:08 pm

Post by mbaki »

I don't think Dann, Nero, Oka, Fish, Creature and myself posting is going to accomplish anything at this point. The other half needs to get involved.
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Post Post #1774 (isolation #273) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:49 pm

Post by mbaki »

Good thing we aren't lynching Varsoon because Vorkuta is dying!
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Post Post #1776 (isolation #274) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:58 pm

Post by mbaki »

Your shading is pretty obvious, Suka. Is that normal?

You can't call my reads bad yet. There are two scum left, and I tried to do Fish or Vork over YYotta. If I recall every player townread rb.
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Post Post #1777 (isolation #275) » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:01 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 934, mbaki wrote:I don't feel too strongly its a scum flip either, but I don't feel great about Dr lynch and there is no way in
hell
scum is ever resolving YYotta for us. Even if we have a cop, who clears her, then we have a cleared directly anti-town slot. I'd much much rather a cleared (or guiltied) Varsoon or KMD.

I also think she should likely be banned from playing with her level of trolling, but this isn't my home site so not my problem.
In post 901, mbaki wrote:I do not feel like hammering this. Still not a townread, persay, but icky wagon.

I would rather any of YYotta / Vorkuta / BigFishEyes today. I will hammer this lynch in about 20 hours from this post if it is necessary though.
In post 752, mbaki wrote:VOTE: BrightEyedFish
In post 758, mbaki wrote:
In post 756, BrightEyedFish wrote:his top scum read.
no
If DR is scum, perhaps. If not, I made the best play possible by lynching the gamethrowing slot over somebody playing with 20 hours left.

Remember how you were "already going to vote me" today and then moved your vote and have pushed multiple other slots? What was that about, and why did it change?
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Post Post #1791 (isolation #276) » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:38 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1787, Kmd4390 wrote:he replaced obvtown
I would love to hear how Leodanny was obvtown, lol.
In post 1788, OkaPoka wrote:mbaki states himself that his self vote wasn't for towncred. soooo
:)
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Post Post #1800 (isolation #277) » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:57 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1796, Varsoon wrote:@DDL: You need to do more
:lol:
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Post Post #1801 (isolation #278) » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:58 pm

Post by mbaki »

Vorkuta has been online multiple times since his last post, including today, and elected to not post in this or any public thread. This is still his only game.
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Post Post #1806 (isolation #279) » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:05 pm

Post by mbaki »

I don't think labeling it matters. Defeated scum, scum tactically lurking until town self-destructs as they often do, all the same. His last post was his claim, and there has been a ton of discussion since then, including direct questions to him. He did not argue with me calling him out for not replying to accusations of his play, or people scumreading him. He has logged on the morning after, later that day, and again this morning (yes, I'm checking), and this is
without being in any other games or posting anywhere else on site
.

I am in awe people are talking about not lynching here. Kmd is looking an awful lot like a Vork partner. This is hard for me to argue this strong because Fish is independently scummy and doesn't really make sense as a Vork partner, and I would love to lynch him on a personal level, but this just seems open and shut newb scum.
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Post Post #1818 (isolation #280) » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:20 pm

Post by mbaki »

Finally.
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Post Post #1819 (isolation #281) » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:22 pm

Post by mbaki »

No, it is L-1. Nero unvoted.

In other news, Vorkuta has logged on today too!
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Post Post #1848 (isolation #282) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:14 am

Post by mbaki »

V/LA for 3 days. Very busy with start of semester and work.
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Post Post #1855 (isolation #283) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:33 am

Post by mbaki »

Zero chance that's a real claim. It was clear Fish would be the lynch today, no way he didn't use it last night.
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Post Post #1864 (isolation #284) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:40 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1857, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 1855, mbaki wrote:Zero chance that's a real claim. It was clear Fish would be the lynch today, no way he didn't use it last night.
I almost used it on you N1 but tried not to play based on emotions
That doesn't matter. Why didn't you use it N2, after you were almost lynched yesterday and multiple other people said they were lynching you if Vorkuta flipped town?
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Post Post #1868 (isolation #285) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:42 am

Post by mbaki »

Oka man I disagree the vig stuff even matters. Joking about vigging somebody is not really AI, it was pretty clear he wasn't actually vig.

Yes, we lynch Fish today. Let's hunt for the partner first though, we shouldn't hammer this quickly.
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Post Post #1871 (isolation #286) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:45 am

Post by mbaki »

I don't even know what that means.
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Post Post #1873 (isolation #287) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:48 am

Post by mbaki »

Dann, who do you think the last scum is? I don't know if scum could really afford to bus today so I'm tempted to clear the wagon. That said, this playerlist is weak enough I don't feel confident they'd think that far ahead either.
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Post Post #1877 (isolation #288) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:50 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1875, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 1871, mbaki wrote:I don't even know what that means.
You left yourself an out to being on my wagon even though your L-1 won't bring any new info
I'm not on your wagon.
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Post Post #1898 (isolation #289) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:50 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1864, mbaki wrote:
In post 1857, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 1855, mbaki wrote:Zero chance that's a real claim. It was clear Fish would be the lynch today, no way he didn't use it last night.
I almost used it on you N1 but tried not to play based on emotions
That doesn't matter. Why didn't you use it N2, after you were almost lynched yesterday and multiple other people said they were lynching you if Vorkuta flipped town?
Yet to see an answer to this.
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Post Post #1908 (isolation #290) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:19 am

Post by mbaki »

Optimal time ignoring game circumstances for a one shot cop-type role is N2, because if your inno is run up you can claim to clear both of you. With only one shot, being outed doesn't really matter. Waiting as long as you claim to want to is senseless, as the odds you won't be either killed or run up to a claim by that point are low enough.

You won't be using your shot tonight if you're town because you're going to be lynched today, and if it's a mislynch (its not) so be it.

You were pretty clearly the day 3 lynch and at the very least a strong candidate for it. If you seriously chose not to get your 1 single result your role gets last night, I have no words.
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Post Post #1922 (isolation #291) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:38 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 1914, Creature wrote:
In post 1905, OkaPoka wrote:@creature i still don't see why my play isn't the best play here.
I knew BEF was gonna be hardpushed today, but didn't expect you to be so eager on it.
I'm surprised Oka didn't push me on day start after how I basically shouted at everyone until Vorkuta was lynched.
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Post Post #1955 (isolation #292) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:28 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1945, OkaPoka wrote:we are letting a free lynch slip through our fingers when we don't have to.
I'm stunned Oka of all people is the one to point out the obvious in this bass ackwards thread.
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Post Post #1982 (isolation #293) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:43 am

Post by mbaki »

I don't think resisting YYotta lynch in itself is town indicative. If anything, that's the kind of player scum would love to defend, since they're inevitably getting lynched eventually, and not a threat.
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Post Post #1987 (isolation #294) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:07 am

Post by mbaki »

I probably pushed him the most proactively.
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Post Post #2006 (isolation #295) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:46 pm

Post by mbaki »

We are lynching BEF today, this is not news.
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Post Post #2008 (isolation #296) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:01 pm

Post by mbaki »

Well, my plan for the day was to lurk and find who I think the last scum is because I think I'm probably dying next. I haven't cleared anybody including Dannflor for ~paranoia~.

That said, because there's a hammer my reads are about this:
Dannflor / Creature*
Varsoon / Oka / Suka
DDL
Kmd

and please don't get unmotivated if we don't lynch right first try, 1 scum to a lot of townies is bad odds and I've seen towns drop games due to apathy that comes with a big early lead.

I WAS waiting, but since the days done:
Kmd, why am I and Suka likely scum to you? Talking about Suka being an odd pick for a Fish partner, and you are now the only player scumreading me I believe.
That leads to Oka, what made you change your mind on my slot?

DDL and Varsoon, you have both done little which makes your jabs at each other amusing to me. Varsoon and Creature, what is overtly scummy about DDL? Why have you been tunneled on bum since day 1?
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Post Post #2021 (isolation #297) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:57 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2017, DrDolittle wrote:im feeling better about kmd as town.

mbaki's 2008 pings me in a really bad way
This pings me in a bad way, and that's not snark my friend.
In post 2012, DrDolittle wrote:feeling real good about dann flipping scum if bef is red.

"He wants us to come to the conclusion that Nero was killed because he was "opposition" to a BEF mislynch, but he can't come out and say it himself"

this seems like something taken directly out of the scum thread
Dann has done more analysis than his scum game looks to be capable of, but he is less eye blindingly obvious town than he was in our last game. I've also kind of had a pet theory that Dann townread me as strong as he did on entrance to pocket me. Of course, the flip side of this is he's just a good player and had some correct reads which is town indicative. He even defended Vorkuta a bit and pushed a Fish lynch yesterday if I recall.

I agree him being scum is a possibility, but I believe this is out of his range is the point of this post. I don't agree with the scum thread stuff, that's not really how people play.
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Post Post #2024 (isolation #298) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:00 pm

Post by mbaki »

Is 2023 supposed to be satire?
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Post Post #2031 (isolation #299) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:07 pm

Post by mbaki »

It's just weird wording. If you're scum you can't be night killed (rest in peace rb), if you are town you are pretty clearly not a likely night kill based on how low you are in most reads lists, and past that being left alive doesn't really make sense?

I've tunneled all 3 of the players who have been lynched so far to a degree, so you could say you've been 'kept alive' because of me. I don't get what you're trying to say.
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Post Post #2035 (isolation #300) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:10 pm

Post by mbaki »

I mean, I'll put it this way: I know you aren't somebody who's awful and/or despises scum like say Creature, so that isn't an explanation for your nonexistent play. The issue with that is why is it an issue now, in twilight after town has a big numbers edge?
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Post Post #2043 (isolation #301) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:21 pm

Post by mbaki »

Fish is lynched, but North is not a mod that instalocks usually so we have time.

Have you read the full game Varsoon?
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Post Post #2057 (isolation #302) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:11 pm

Post by mbaki »

If you are town, you should know your Neo claim is what made you my unnegotiable target for the day. I'm not some hardass about not gambitting and faking and what not, but this was a horrible way to do it.
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Post Post #2058 (isolation #303) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:13 pm

Post by mbaki »

Also, if Fish is green please throw out my reads list. I'm too tired to do another right now though.
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Post Post #2060 (isolation #304) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:17 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 666, mbaki wrote:I am not willing to lynch rb, Kmd4390, OkaPoka.

I probably would not lynch Creature, Nero Cain, Suka.

I would be okay with lynching Varsoon, Leodanny.

Ideally, we lynch in DrDoLittle, Vorkuta, BrightEyedFish, YyottaCat.
As well, if Fish is town its amusing how off I am this game.
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Post Post #2061 (isolation #305) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:22 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2059, BrightEyedFish wrote:
In post 2058, mbaki wrote:Also, if Fish is green please throw out my reads list. I'm too tired to do another right now though.
By claiming my true role I would have lost all utility that comes with that role and would not have had a chance to prove my claim at least as a neo I had a chance, albeit a small chance, that I might be able to make it through another day and avoid a mislynch.

Trust me, I'm town.

If I was scum I wouldn't be posting in twilight...
I believe you're town based on twilight posting, mainly because there is literally no incentive to troll to this degree here. Its why I'm posting.

The Neo claim just wasn't believable at all to me. Didn't fit with the setup or my mod meta, and more importantly just didn't fit play wise because despite my insults I don't believe you are actually bad enough to have not used the Neo to this point. I'm a player who has done lots of game design on here and MU, and for genius among other things. I love balancing and setup and it's how I do a lot of scumhunting.

I scumread you before the claim, definitely true, but that claim is what super pushed me towards okay lynching Fish no questions asked. I guess I can tell myself I was right about setup like I usually am, but that isn't much of a consolation for the fact if you're town then town could realistically lose this as there's no real town bloc
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Post Post #2062 (isolation #306) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:23 pm

Post by mbaki »

If you are town you should give your real role here if there's any results to give.

Is it bad I still doubt you're town to a somewhat high degree? I dunno man.
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Post Post #2065 (isolation #307) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:30 pm

Post by mbaki »

I've seen it. It's still best to engage him, because worst case it's some time to reorganize thoughts, best case he's revealed as scum in a few hours anyways.
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Post Post #2094 (isolation #308) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:53 am

Post by mbaki »

There is 100% 2 scum left. Also, this game sucks.

VOTE: DDL
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Post Post #2097 (isolation #309) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:37 am

Post by mbaki »

I am not claiming first, I will claim before Creature and that's it.
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Post Post #2099 (isolation #310) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:39 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 2095, DrDolittle wrote:^ this is essentially a scum claim
I'm also not going to ignore your shit play and let you get away with random shade like this.

Why is it essentially a scum claim?

And Varsoon, you've been playing mafia for years. On what planet would there ever be 3 scum alive here?
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Post Post #2100 (isolation #311) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:40 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 2097, mbaki wrote:I am not claiming first, I will claim before Creature and that's it.
Actually read you have a result, so I'd go before you too.
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Post Post #2105 (isolation #312) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:27 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 2101, Varsoon wrote:@mbaki: I forgot rb flipped scum--there's likely just 2 alive.
Still think we should Mass claim today.
I agree that we should mass claim.
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Post Post #2106 (isolation #313) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:29 am

Post by mbaki »

DrDolittle: VT
Kmd4390:
OkaPoka
Suka
mbaki:
Varsoon:
Creature:

Suka, Oka, or Kmd can claim and popcorn it.
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Post Post #2108 (isolation #314) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:37 am

Post by mbaki »

If I get popcorned too I'll claim, but I believe it should be, yes. Creature is the most likely town left alive IMO and you are claiming results.
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Post Post #2119 (isolation #315) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:13 pm

Post by mbaki »

Oka, is this a role tunnel or are you just certain Varsoon's scum?
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Post Post #2121 (isolation #316) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:14 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2110, Suka wrote:I guess I'll just claim. I'm a town [redacted] follower. I redacted part of my role because it's really best if I don't claim it.

My three targets are still alive. One of them was Varsoon. He should claim after me.

I'd also like to see a claim from Oka for reasons I'll reveal after he claims.

I'll keep my third target secret for the moment until everyone else claims.
Is redacted a modifier? Like, two shot, loyal, etc.?
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Post Post #2123 (isolation #317) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:15 pm

Post by mbaki »

Scum can not have a vig or any KP in a normal game.
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Post Post #2131 (isolation #318) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:17 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2125, OkaPoka wrote:Unless varsoon is an IC, he's scum here.
If you had a cop, a guilty wouldn't allow for an IC.

If you had a role cop, you would already know he's a ninja or strongman or other scum role, and not an IC.

I believe he could be, absolutely, I need your answer if you are thinking he's scum on play or if you have role reasons to think so.
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Post Post #2134 (isolation #319) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:20 pm

Post by mbaki »

Then mass claim is still optimal. Mass claim the day before LyLo is the right answer. The exception is if there's a guilty claimed, ie. role reasons.
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Post Post #2138 (isolation #320) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:27 pm

Post by mbaki »

Varsoon is claiming a result on Creature, and Suka is claiming to have a result on Varsoon that supports him having an action. That means Creature -> Varsoon claim is fine I think.
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Post Post #2165 (isolation #321) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:37 pm

Post by mbaki »

How does follower work? Like, what results do you get?
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Post Post #2171 (isolation #322) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:20 pm

Post by mbaki »

VOTE: Suka

You fucked up. I'm vt.
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Post Post #2174 (isolation #323) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:22 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 2160, Suka wrote:N1 - Varsoon - no action (consistent with claim)
N2 - mbaki - towny action, no need to claim
N3 - kmd - towny action, no need to claim
VT is not "townie action", it's no action.
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Post Post #2177 (isolation #324) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:49 am

Post by mbaki »

Yay, people claiming useless gambits that I now need to decide if scum or dumb town. Another great facet to this great game.
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Post Post #2183 (isolation #325) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:10 am

Post by mbaki »

VOTE: DDL

Sure, Kmd. Why the fuck not believe the person who claimed
that you had an action
and
that you didn't have an action
. Scum's investigative that
wasn't in their PT
is dead, so there is no way scum could know that you
either have or don't have
an action. As Varsoon said, great logic.

I don't care about this game anymore. Fuck all of you.
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Post Post #2188 (isolation #326) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:20 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 2187, Varsoon wrote:Also, I think the claimed 'townie action' gambit is solid since it can catch those players in a lie.
No, it isn't... If you claim it on scum who didn't make an action, they'd know they didn't make an action. There is
no reason
they'd think "oh, great, I can claim doc now!"
In post 2185, Varsoon wrote:for some reason, both mbaki and oka's frustrations come off as forced to me in this phase.
You were helping more when you weren't posting.
In post 2184, Kmd4390 wrote:Suka came right out and said I took no action before I claimed. That would have been a lie that would have been exposed had I taken an action. There's actually a world where someone could see no action as a townie action, although I'd disagree. That could easily be scum who didn't kill that night. Point is, claiming I took no action is risking a lie being exposed. I don't see it the other way around.
He did it after 5 PR claims, and a traitor game always has low town power. After his first action choice got called out.

I believe Suka's stupid claim fits dumb town rather than scum, hence my vote being on DDL, but guess what: "a lie that would have been exposed had I taken an action" was the lie that we had townie actions he first went with getting called out.
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Post Post #2190 (isolation #327) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:32 am

Post by mbaki »

Why do you not think its DDL, after you were one of the players tunneling him earlier?

Oka and DDL is my solve currently.
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Post Post #2194 (isolation #328) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:44 am

Post by mbaki »

Assuming you aren't partners with him, no, I don't think you'd ever be killed.
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Post Post #2196 (isolation #329) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:36 am

Post by mbaki »

I think you are on bath salts or something if you think you'd ever be a night kill candidate for anybody this game.
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Post Post #2198 (isolation #330) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:25 am

Post by mbaki »

And, I looked at the night kills. Rb's only scumread still alive is DDL.
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Post Post #2200 (isolation #331) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:16 am

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Close to nonexistent, because I really doubt scum would kill him even being widely townread if all 5 of his scumreads were town.
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Post Post #2201 (isolation #332) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:33 am

Post by mbaki »

I think one of the VT claims is scum (Kmd or DDL), and the other is a PR though they may have claimed their real PR.

Creature probably still town?

So in Varsoon, Suka, Oka.

There is normally 1-2 strong PRs in a game with a traitor, so this would imply Suka is town because really there are barely any PRs at all. Varsoon could possibly be a scum UB, but I think Oka is more likely.

Follower and Voyeur are both kinda weak, and then the UB to recover one of them plus a commuter. Hm.

I really think you guys need to claim modifiers for setup spec to work. Otherwise, though, I'm sitting at a DDL and Oka solve, and Kmd as scum over DDL or Varsoon / Suka as scum over Oka if it comes to that.
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Post Post #2213 (isolation #333) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:20 pm

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Thought about it. I think Suka has to be town for balance purposes.
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Post Post #2215 (isolation #334) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:35 pm

Post by mbaki »

{DDL, Kmd}
{Oka, Creature, Varsoon}

which bracket is better to resolve first? I don't think Creature is scum
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Post Post #2216 (isolation #335) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:36 pm

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I want all of you to claim modifiers too. Creature, were you commuting when Varsoon targeted you?
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Post Post #2219 (isolation #336) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:42 pm

Post by mbaki »

Scum definitely does not have both an Ascetic and Commuter, they're both almost the same role and serve the same purpose utility wise.
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Post Post #2239 (isolation #337) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:01 pm

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In post 2220, Varsoon wrote:Yeah, s'why I think scum's one or the other.
It'd also be a cute fit with the scum rolecop traitor.
If you're town I agree with this perspective, ftr. Who do you think the other scum is then?
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Post Post #2242 (isolation #338) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:24 pm

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Why am I scum DDL? Why did you ignore my last question?
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Post Post #2245 (isolation #339) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:07 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2243, DrDolittle wrote:because your question is bad and it doesnt deserve answering
No, your post was bad and general discrediting. Why was that a scum claim?
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Post Post #2246 (isolation #340) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:09 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2244, DrDolittle wrote:2 - you post a lot but i dont read/recall any insightful scumhunting
Why don't you go show me what scumhunting you've done? I've been solving actively since day 1.
In post 2244, DrDolittle wrote:3 - your rage 2x already this game reads fake.
Not according to the dead people who are coincidentally two of the better players here. You would be enraged too if you were in my situation.
In post 2244, DrDolittle wrote:4 - rb says youre scum
rb said I was town
In post 2244, DrDolittle wrote:1 - you've been steadfastly pushing town all game
So has literally everybody. Both of the night kills were prime pushers of the mislynches that happened right before they were killed.
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Post Post #2247 (isolation #341) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:10 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2244, DrDolittle wrote:now lets flip, why am i scum
Because I said so.
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Post Post #2250 (isolation #342) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:24 pm

Post by mbaki »

DDL's progression on my slot is nonsense.
In post 2241, DrDolittle wrote:{oka, mbaki} is still my solve. maybe oka for creature, but i'm leaning more heavily on oka.
After d2, it is ridiculous to propose I'm partners with Oka and anybody critically reading can see that.

He went from townreading me through my bad reads to setting up his shitty attempt to mislynch my slot.
In post 799, DrDolittle wrote:mbakiv - town
At this point in the game, I was his strongest town read.

The next relevant mention is defending me:
In post 1128, DrDolittle wrote:
In post 1115, OkaPoka wrote:Still prefer mbaki lynch to vorkuta, though revelations are interesting. We can lynch vorkuta tomorrow.

As to why because you guys are going to ask.

mbaki's self vote pushes it over the edge for me. The difference between mbaki selfvoting and your typical rage!town self-voter is that mbaki isn't the type of player who self-votes, based on what he said about yyotta. Either he was lying about his opinion on yyotta or he was manufacturing rage. pick whatever reason you want, mbaki is the scummier player.
? Oka are you scum ?

the revelations looks on my end like a smoking gun

your case on mbaki seems dubious at best
Still townreading me here:
In post 1181, DrDolittle wrote:I'm against lynching mbaki today. I think hes town, but I am open to changing reads on this slot as more information comes
And that was when there was active casing going on against my slot.

And then finally, the switch around
after BEF had been hammered
:
In post 2017, DrDolittle wrote:im feeling better about kmd as town.

mbaki's 2008 pings me in a really bad way
He town read me to let me loltunnel three town lynches (although really, I had nothing to do with the BEF lynch, he was l-1 before I read the thread). Once my bad reads were exhausted, he switched gears completely. I commented on his callout of 2008 being bad at the time, too.


His suggestion that the mislynches are my fault is also ludicrous. He was a big advocate of lynching BEF, and didn't even defend Vork. Hell, probably one of his longest posts this game:
In post 1793, DrDolittle wrote:I think I would prefer a BEF lynch today.
1 - I think there's at most one scum in {BEF, Vork} and {BEF, mbaki}. That role flipping red clears our
2 - With conf bias, his wagon hop on me is extremely lazy and antitown ("for the sake of progress")
3 - I agree with what people said. BEF's reads today are extremely weak, and they feel more like continuing to set up mislynches.
4 - Meta-wise, this game reminds me of the last time BEF played scum, rather than BEF played town. His scum play seems more confident, vocally fights with frequent-posters, and then gradually shirks when there's more pressure.
5 - The story that rb-BEF teammates makes sense, although its weaker than rb-vork.

I'm still ok with Vork lynch, but right now, I would prefer a flip here instead. VOTE: bef
He subtly supports the Vork lynch, knowing it'll go through with me tunnelling it, and angles for the BEF lynch the next day. And, again, even if you don't believe that, it is indisputable he did not defend any of the mislynches. Of course, he voted Vork earlier when it was less certain:
In post 1006, DrDolittle wrote:VOTE: vorkuta
There is also no explanation from him why I would kill Dann, the person who entered the game and called my wagon retarded (it was), me his top town read, and kept that throughout the game. There is, however, the counter explanation that he wanted me lynched today and wanted to get rid of my champion to make it less problematic.

His Kmd progression might be even worse than mine. He starts off with a scumread with posts such as this:
In post 559, DrDolittle wrote:i town read oka, and to a lesser degree creature. I don't think Kmd is town. His ISO is a lot of commentary, and like a total of 1 scum read in yyotta?
VOTE: kmd
In post 705, DrDolittle wrote:I still pref KMD. Willing vorkuta over yyota. Wouldn't be too opposed to my lynch either. I'm a liability on town at this rate especially with this player list
In post 900, DrDolittle wrote:make kmd point out where he has reads tomorrow. (hint he doesn't)
Of course, there aren't many mentions because he barely existed d1. He doesn't mention his top scumread again until:
In post 2017, DrDolittle wrote:im feeling better about kmd as town.

mbaki's 2008 pings me in a really bad way
Again, same post, same terrible progression out of nowhere. These aren't the reads of a town player trying to sort, they're the reads of a player changing reads as they're optimal for him to do so.
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Post Post #2251 (isolation #343) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:25 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2248, Suka wrote:Oka, why are you voting Varsoon?
Can you weigh in here? I don't have any reason to townread Kmd, and this is not the expectation of his town game I have set, but I don't think both him and DDL are scum and DDL just overtly seems like scum here.
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Post Post #2253 (isolation #344) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:29 pm

Post by mbaki »

I gave up hope on town winning this when BEF started twilight posting, so him making less sense is not a priority for me right now. You can convince me why I should want to lynch him over you after.

What do you think of DDL? Because there's 2 scum left and Varsoon is not both of them regardless.
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Post Post #2255 (isolation #345) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:37 pm

Post by mbaki »

That doesn't say much, though.
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Post Post #2258 (isolation #346) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:40 pm

Post by mbaki »

I don't think town has both a commuter and an ascetic for similar reasons to why I don't think scum has both. What do you think about that?
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Post Post #2261 (isolation #347) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:55 pm

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Is that your way of saying Creature and I are town?
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Post Post #2267 (isolation #348) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:32 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2262, DrDolittle wrote:
In post 2246, mbaki wrote:Why don't you go show me what scumhunting you've done? I've been solving actively since day 1.
yeah this is the part that amazes me. I refuse to believe anyone is this bad at the game while "posting" and "thinking" so much. thus, im inching slowly towards you being scum

my scumhunting at least involves taking clear stances on players. yours is dodgy.
You aren't slowly inching, you're actively pushing me. And, food for thought: it takes two people for a misread to happen. BEF and Vorkuta both pushed each other, so don't act like those lynches are my fault.
And again, you also pushed BOTH of them.
If my reads are shit, I think every single player here qualifies for that too.
In post 2263, DrDolittle wrote:also all your crap about how youre done with this game, and how this game is hopeless and how you hate this game can just fuck off. if you dont want to play then replace out.
(nothing about your alignment) That mindset is garbage and a lot of the bad about this site. 5+ replace outs per game should not be normal. You can't be having a bad game of soccer, or CoD, or etc. and then decide to replace out mid game and let a new team mate come in. That isn't how competitive games work.
In post 2264, DrDolittle wrote:ps. im amazed at your gall to put out posts 1000 posts apart and argue inconsistency.
I didn't pick out posts. I used ctrl F mbaki and then Kmd in your iso and selected all relevant results. YOU CHOOSING NOT TO REFER TO US FOR "1000 posts" IS YOUR CHOICE, and NOT A TOWNIE ONE. There was no pursuing of your scumread of Kmd or stated reevaluation for "1000 posts".
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Post Post #2268 (isolation #349) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:35 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2099, mbaki wrote:
In post 2095, DrDolittle wrote:^ this is essentially a scum claim
I'm also not going to ignore your shit play and let you get away with random shade like this.

Why is it essentially a scum claim?
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Post Post #2272 (isolation #350) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:33 pm

Post by mbaki »

K so 2269 is awful and my vote is parked on DDL for the rest of us being both alive. Thanks, good night.
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Post Post #2282 (isolation #351) » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:28 pm

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So you read Oka as town despite his tunnel on you?
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Post Post #2288 (isolation #352) » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:05 pm

Post by mbaki »

Commuter and Ascetic both do the same thing, ie make you untargetable by actions. Ergo, scumread them for their play, not their roles.
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Post Post #2296 (isolation #353) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:41 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 2293, Varsoon wrote:
In post 2288, mbaki wrote:Commuter and Ascetic both do the same thing, ie make you untargetable by actions. Ergo, scumread them for their play, not their roles.
Real talk, are you scum?

Commuter makes you immune to EVERYTHING, including kills.
Real talk, are you scum?

Ascetic makes you immune to EVERYTHING, except kills.

They fit in the same role category and do the same thing, kind of like Cop and Neapolitan. One just does a little different. They cover the same stuff. And, since there is no town vig in this game, they are ESSENTIALLY the SAME ROLE in that aspect. Creature being able to dodge the scum kill is the only difference, so using your own (bad) setup-spec logic Creature's role is the town one. That isn't actually how setup design works and you'll get screwed long term thinking like that, so the proper play is to decide which of them is scum by their play.
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Post Post #2297 (isolation #354) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:42 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 2292, Creature wrote:Actually, it's possible for commuter and ascetic to both exist in this setup.

Like, follower and voyeur are opposites

Commuter and ascetic are also like both opposites
Commuter and ascetic are not opposites... and this is a terrible analogy anyways?
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Post Post #2301 (isolation #355) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:53 am

Post by mbaki »

If you think the scum are in the VTs, which 2 of Kmd / DDL / me do you think are scum?
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Post Post #2303 (isolation #356) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:07 am

Post by mbaki »

Do you townread Varsoon or Oka more?
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Post Post #2306 (isolation #357) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:54 am

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I don't think I called you either?
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Post Post #2308 (isolation #358) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:30 pm

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I called Suka town for his claim. Lol.
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Post Post #2311 (isolation #359) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:43 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2213, mbaki wrote:Thought about it. I think Suka has to be town for balance purposes.
I also said this unprompted. The initial vote was just a reaction to a fake claim, I forgot what lobby we were in.
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Post Post #2313 (isolation #360) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:43 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2214, Varsoon wrote:I think Suka's definitely town and one of Creature / Oka are scum based on claim/play.
He said this after me. I am on mobile and don't care enough to find your comment.

Who's my partner?
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Post Post #2317 (isolation #361) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:59 pm

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I think the best case for me being town is it would be ludicrous for scum!me to ever kill Dannflor. I think this is the kind of lobby to brush that off as WIFOM. The point about somebody rb scumread having to be scum still stands, and DDL is his last living scumread, too.
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Post Post #2320 (isolation #362) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:01 pm

Post by mbaki »

I think everybody who is town has sucked this game, including the night kills and myself. Lmao. And scum killed their traitor, so that's out the window too.

RB, you played well buddy. XD
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Post Post #2323 (isolation #363) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:05 pm

Post by mbaki »

Dann also scumread Kmd, as did Nero. Nero also scumread Varsoon though. Going by dead people's reads, Kmd and Varsoon is a likely team, but that isn't a good metric in this game where everybody's reads have been awful.
In post 2322, OkaPoka wrote:mbaki did u suck this game
In post 2320, mbaki wrote:including the night kills and myself
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Post Post #2325 (isolation #364) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:08 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 1682, Nero Cain wrote:I know, he's saying that KMD or Varsoon are the other scum.
(about Dann)
In post 1664, Nero Cain wrote:I'd flip

vork
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Post Post #2327 (isolation #365) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:15 pm

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I don't even know if I think Varsoon's scum over you, I'd rather resolve DDL first.
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Post Post #2329 (isolation #366) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:32 pm

Post by mbaki »

Either works. Varsoon is also arguing Creature as a possibility but I still think hes town?
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Post Post #2331 (isolation #367) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:41 pm

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I think maybe Varsoon is scum is an ample description.
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Post Post #2332 (isolation #368) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:44 pm

Post by mbaki »

Honestly, dunno if town has enough power if Varsoon is scum. It's pretty frickin weak as is.
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Post Post #2334 (isolation #369) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:47 pm

Post by mbaki »

Yea, I'm working with two goons right now. The roles we have so far are somewhat weak and there's no doctor.
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Post Post #2344 (isolation #370) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:05 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2339, DrDolittle wrote:Eg. What's the point in telling everyone to spell out their exact reads other than to set up kills and gauge wagon interest
I am in awe a sentence like this can get by with nobody commenting on it.

Hammer me whenever, thanks for one of the worst games of mafia in 10+ years.
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Post Post #2345 (isolation #371) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:06 pm

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I would point out you are voting against the universal at this point town and the person almost globally read as town, but alas.
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Post Post #2351 (isolation #372) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:19 pm

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No no no, I'm saying Suka is universal town at this point. Nobody has disputed it.

And you didn't make this awful personally. Please stop taking my comments as if they're directed at you, it's in general. I think I contributed to the bad overall play as much as everyone.
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Post Post #2372 (isolation #373) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:36 am

Post by mbaki »

In post 2362, DrDolittle wrote:if you have complete apathy at least vote for the person who's been making this game an awful experience
Fuck you for this being your tactic. Scummy as fuck, and I'm not talking about in game.
In post 2355, OkaPoka wrote:
In post 2345, mbaki wrote:I would point out you are voting against the universal at this point town and the person almost globally read as town, but alas.
mbaki im still confused what this means
Suka is a universal townread. I think its rambly because I was kind of hammered last night.
In post 2352, OkaPoka wrote:an apathy lynch is worse than a panic lynch
I am happy where my vote is, its not apathy.
In post 2363, DrDolittle wrote:here's the deal. I'll take the L if scum is in {oka, kmd, varsoon, suka, creature}
But I don't want to lost to mbaki and neither should any of you. + the guy is scummy as fuck.
Like, this is slimy as shit.
In post 2364, or wrote:also maybe oka's town right now for not hammering me yet.
it's an easy justifiable hammer tbh
Voting with his top scumread right away is an easily justifiable hammer? Fuck off, this is pockety bullshit.
In post 2366, DrDolittle wrote:I'm also still entertained by varsoon town. He claims no one visits creature, but it could be very well that suka's third target was creature, and thus the claim could be falsified.
Varsoon could actually be a scum UB.
In post 2367, DrDolittle wrote:we agree on that suka's town.

so the persons that remain is {me, mbaki, kmd, creature}

I know I'm town (take my word on this, or whatever see my flip and decide tomorrow). I townread kmd right now. So that leaves mbaki and creature.
You town read Kmd because he's voting with you. This also doesn't cover Oka or Varsoon? Because the first line says "we agree on that suka's town", but nobody agrees Oka and Varsoon are town and there's been lots of arguing for the opposites.
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Post Post #2379 (isolation #374) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:50 am

Post by mbaki »

His entire ISO is defending me every time he mentions me, he was the person I was mainly speaking to, and his entrance post was a major defense of me as well. His reads were also no better than anybody else (he pushed Fish and supported Vork lynch enough), and people including Fish in twilight were scumreading him so it wasn't like he was unlynchable. Killing him would be ludicrous play for any team with scum!mbaki.

I'm not scum, and if you're town I'm disappointed you're voting me with this little engagement. Also, funny note that Varsoon and DDL called my anger / apathy fake and now you're calling them out for similar.
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Post Post #2383 (isolation #375) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:59 pm

Post by mbaki »

Which two posts?
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Post Post #2385 (isolation #376) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:21 pm

Post by mbaki »

Ah.

What do you think of the Creature / Oka dichotomy? You've played a lot of mafia, do you think both of those roles have a reasonable possibility of being town? For Varsoon to be scum they kind of have to be, unless all 3 of you / DDL / myself are town, which I find very unlikely.
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Post Post #2387 (isolation #377) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:55 pm

Post by mbaki »

I'm in a similar boat, Varsoon / DDL is an odd hypothetical solve though with Varsoon's push on DDL day 1. Granted, it was relatively absent.
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Post Post #2404 (isolation #378) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:38 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2391, DrDolittle wrote:
In post 2372, mbaki wrote:
In post 2362, DrDolittle wrote:if you have complete apathy at least vote for the person who's been making this game an awful experience
Fuck you for this being your tactic. Scummy as fuck, and I'm not talking about in game.
In post 2363, DrDolittle wrote:here's the deal. I'll take the L if scum is in {oka, kmd, varsoon, suka, creature}
But I don't want to lost to mbaki and neither should any of you. + the guy is scummy as fuck.
Like, this is slimy as shit.
im playing to my wincon which is to get you lynched given the circumstance (apathy) of the game.
im not violating any rules.
im not attacking you personally.
@mod correct me if im wrong here

meanwhile you are calling me slimy irl. that's not cool?
Your wincon is not to say I'm ruining the game and that you want to vote me specifically so you don't lose to me regardless of my alignment and ot hers should too.
In post 2389, DrDolittle wrote:
In post 2110, Suka wrote:I guess I'll just claim. I'm a town [redacted] follower. I redacted part of my role because it's really best if I don't claim it.

My three targets are still alive. One of them was Varsoon. He should claim after me.

I'd also like to see a claim from Oka for reasons I'll reveal after he claims.

I'll keep my third target secret for the moment until everyone else claims.
In post 2158, Varsoon wrote:Oh, my result was nothing.
No one visited Creature.
In post 2159, Varsoon wrote:To be more specific, there were no actions performed on Creature.
In post 2160, Suka wrote:Hmm, okay.

These are my results:

N1 - Varsoon - no action (consistent with claim)
N2 - mbaki - towny action, no need to claim
N3 - kmd - towny action, no need to claim

I lied about visiting Oka because I wanted Oka telling the truth about his role. I'm thinking it's scum because ascetic functions almost like a ninja in this context.
@ Oka see this sequence. Suppose Varsoon was not backup, and lied about visiting and getting no action on creature. Then if Suka's n3 investigation was actually on creature, OR if suka's n3 action is on varsoon, then his claim is immediately poked through. This seems to me like a smoking gun varsoon is town.
"If he lied about his actions" is a niche scenario, or
he could be a scum UB
. Lol.
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Post Post #2409 (isolation #379) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:01 pm

Post by mbaki »

Hold up

why wouldn't UB inherit rolecop?
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Post Post #2410 (isolation #380) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:05 pm

Post by mbaki »

it should only activate upon the first death of a power role of their own alignment.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

Oh. This is actually good though, because if Varsoon is telling the truth about his role that means he is town.
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Post Post #2411 (isolation #381) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:06 pm

Post by mbaki »

I need to go to bed, but I have to think about this game. Still think its DDL over Kmd and Kmd's unvote supports that, but Creature / Oka / Varsoon is a mind fuck I'm too tired for.
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Post Post #2421 (isolation #382) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:50 am

Post by mbaki »

This dynamic is weird, with Oka tunneling Varsoon and Varsoon tunneling Creature.
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Post Post #2427 (isolation #383) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:19 am

Post by mbaki »

It is also supported by Varsoon pushing DDL somewhat consistently.
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Post Post #2451 (isolation #384) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:12 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2435, OkaPoka wrote:mbaki, is creature still living up to your standards of him being in town meta?
Not as much as I would like. Kmd and Varsoon have also both played with him a ton, the latter has made his stance clear but I would like to know what the former thinks.
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Post Post #2453 (isolation #385) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:06 pm

Post by mbaki »

You can go read my thoughts, I don't think there's any need to drudge it up again?
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Post Post #2455 (isolation #386) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:39 pm

Post by mbaki »

See, why have you been asking questions like that all game? It forces me to talk about it which in turn apparently leads to me ruining the game (-DDL). How does that help you sort my alignment? I've gone over this shit.
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Post Post #2460 (isolation #387) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:13 pm

Post by mbaki »

I already said all my problems with this playerlist. My ISO is available, I see no reason to rehash it. 2458 is dumb, engaging with scumreads is a basic part of mafia.

Perhaps it would go easier if we lynch Varsoon, but I think you're mildly more likely to be scum than he is.
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Post Post #2462 (isolation #388) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:15 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2431, Kmd4390 wrote:
In post 2428, OkaPoka wrote:Is this where you vote varsoon? I think this is where you vote varsoon.
Not likely for me. I think I'm between mbaki and drdoolittle today. Leaning drdoolittle now because I'm not sure mbaki points out varsoon is likely town if mbaki is scum.
Similarly, I think lynching in Kmd and DDL is best. For better or worse, DDL's posting today has locked me onto him, so I doubt my vote is moving.
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Post Post #2463 (isolation #389) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:15 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2461, OkaPoka wrote:lmao thats not engaging with scumreads

ur just complaining about him
Am I?

I responded to his post directly, multiple times.
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Post Post #2466 (isolation #390) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:23 pm

Post by mbaki »

Fish said the same kind of thing. If my "bitching" is ruining the game for people, I don't see why I need to engage in you asking questions about it that don't actually matter for my alignment.

And, no, I have not read DDL's meta nor do I care to.
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Post Post #2468 (isolation #391) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:35 pm

Post by mbaki »

You haven't provided any convincing arguments for Varsoon being scum, at least to me, and this is evident via nobody sheeping you.

What do
you
make of the fact Varsoon is insisting its Creature and not you?
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Post Post #2470 (isolation #392) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:00 pm

Post by mbaki »

I just assumed so because you've both been playing for so long and frequent the same queue(s). I haven't done any search or anything.
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Post Post #2477 (isolation #393) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:46 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2215, mbaki wrote:{DDL, Kmd}
{Oka, Creature, Varsoon}

which bracket is better to resolve first? I don't think Creature is scum
And in response to 2475, good scum players simply do not do "setups for when people flip town". That is not an important part of play. Town is wrong, and therefore, scum imitating being town should be wrong sometimes too. I am only even bothering to reply to you because you just implicated yourself: you specifically set yourself up for when Vorkuta flipped town, and then Fish. You just illustrated that your mindset as scum is, in your words, to make "a setup for when [players] flip town". Cognitive bias leading to self-implication is a common scum failure.
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Post Post #2478 (isolation #394) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:52 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2475, DrDolittle wrote:If I were as committed as him on a player being scum, all I could think about is finding partners, which mbaki's posts are not moving towards.
And to respond to this sentence which I assume is the meat of your post:
I am clearly "concerned with finding partners", as I am still engaging with Oka and others about who the other scum is in him / Creature / Kmd.
More important than that, being more than 75% sure any player you don't have a cop guilty on is scum is
generally
delusional play beginner players have. The exception are reads that are meta-based. Other than meta, amazing top level reads are 60% accurate give or take; anything more than that is unrealistic.

So yes, I strongly believe you are scum over Kmd, but I also strongly believed Vork was scum. Why would I not be concerned with sorting Kmd, who is a scum lean I've had for a while, is implicated by the kills,
and
was voting me? His reevaluation on me feels better, and his day 1 was somewhat townie. I don't care if all you could think about is finding partners, put the unnecessary sarcastic comment about how ur bad here.

I don't know why
you're
asking
me
questions if all you do for strong scum reads is think about finding partners.
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Post Post #2482 (isolation #395) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:17 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2479, DrDolittle wrote:lol i really appreciate this little lesson but i know for a fact its wrong because im town.
None of it hinges on you being scum? Why is this even relevant, unless its just an excuse for you to posture that you're town.

And on the topic of math, its a general rule of thumb about confidence. At the time of the Vork lynch, there were 11 living players, so 2 scum out of 10 people (excluding myself), so 20% was the base random odds. Getting 60% accuracy in that situation is impressive. Of course, as the game progresses it shrinks.

I also said more than 75% if you nitpick, and if you are 75% sure someone's scum there's still the 25% of the time you're wrong. 25% is not that small of a number. And before you hit me with the "90% confidence mbaki scum" garbage, this is either the 25% or the 10% because I am town and if you are a townie you are therefore wrong and proving my point that you're overconfident put unneeded insult here.
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Post Post #2485 (isolation #396) » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:17 pm

Post by mbaki »

I have nothing left to say.
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Post Post #2489 (isolation #397) » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:39 pm

Post by mbaki »

Well, let's see what the replacement does. Fresh eyes are nice in games like this.
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Post Post #2492 (isolation #398) » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:31 pm

Post by mbaki »

In post 2490, OkaPoka wrote:mbaki i feel like your numbers and percentages and explanation are just random bs?
I feel like its not, and that isn't the important part of the posts, despite it being what DDL chose to reply to?
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Post Post #2504 (isolation #399) » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:00 pm

Post by mbaki »

Dann was also a potential mislynch.
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