Open 745: 9:12 [Game Over]

[Slaxx]

eyes can you please stop be a miserable person to talk to
if you're town im probably going to, like, avoid you in future games

invis can please stop be a miserable person to play with

if you're seriosly thinking you know how to play mafia, like, you can't be more wrong

Lol fuck that thing about the daytalk is making me squirm a bit

But seriously

>Puts self to L-1
>”I can’t be scum”

???

And you’re critiquing my town PR play? That I definitely am in this game because the loon who self voted said so?

That's the thing that made me doubt my read, which I was pretty transparent about. The whole daytalk thing knocked the wind out of me because he had no reason to feign ignorance at that point.

[kitcat]

Huh I read that post more as you doubling down on the scumread
Although the timeline you're giving does add up

[Slaxx]

So, eyes, what 20 posts between 163 and 181 inspired someone slow to get reads to sort most of the playerlist?

Waiting

@Eyes

In short, Eragon happened. he entered the game and started doing his page by page analysis which helped me not only form a read on him but also on other slots. I had already voiced a slight town read on the slot due to the replace out which many -including Eragon himself- objected to, but Eragon's posts strengthened my town read there.

Invis was already a town lean too, but that was about it and I wan't going to declare a read list of exactly one slot.

Eragon helped me see CoA is probably town, and I had to ISO rooroo to realize her claim to be new is a meme and that was confirmed by people mentioning it's an alt account, so disregarding the meme effect I realized 79 was too string to come from scum and 156 was being stubborn which is a town trait since scum would prefer to go with the flow. Overall feeling of rooroo was adjusted so that was 4 slots sorted out of 8. Do you want me to explain how I came to the conclusion I'm town too?

I totally baited him into doing that. Bait doesn't have to be scummy.

I had been pressing him on why he suddenly went from 0 reads to lots of reads. It is hard to describe, you just have to go back and read the posts AND the time stamps, but I asked this question, he addressed other pieces, then kind of slinked away. Other people came in and started talking and it felt like he was tryin to subtly reintegrate himself into the conversation without answering my question, so I followed up. I figured one might be a fluke.

So, I decide to bait him to see if he selectively picks out what to address again. It is a ridiculously common tactic with Russian disinformation trolls (not to be political) where they just address the weakest link of an argument and leave the rest alone to try to score some sort of foothold/win. Sure enough, he selectively picks what to talk about again, so I go in on him, because at this point it doesn't seem like a coincidence and more like someone just being opaque and buying time.

[Slaxx]

So you go from slowly developing reads to sorting everyone because of one replace-in?

This is the question he chose to ignore, which you notice came before 330.

I can't really retroactively give a scumcase on a flipped townie, but I can tell you why I did what I did, and I think someone who twice selectively replied to only certain parts of my argument while trying to work there way back into the group is a pretty damn fair reason for that vote. I was like, way more patient than I usually am when it comes to people voting me because I knew he had a different playstyle from a different sight.

But opaque and reluctant behavior isn't site-dependent, and thus my vote.

[kitcat]

Yeah the baiting felt bad to me.
I'm not sure it's inherently

scummy

but it does feel manipulative - like you were trying to set up a favorable argument for yourself against someone who couldn't defend themselves as well

[Slaxx]

Yeah the baiting felt bad to me.
I'm not sure it's inherently

scummy

but it does feel manipulative - like you were trying to set up a favorable argument for yourself against someone who couldn't defend themselves as well

It was 100% manipulative, but I think I had a pretty good basis for doing it. I'm fairly well known for shit like that, I just got out of a game where I suggested we mod kill a slot that mod accidentally cleared to fish for reactions from the 2 remaining unclears. I had no intention of actually modkilling the slot. It was actually Chibi's game lol.

[Slaxx]

In regards to SA, don't really know what to say besides that vote seemed a bit contrived and opportunistic. In my mind it was just as likely a bus as it was SvT but at that point I was more confident on Eyes.

[Slaxx]

Alright, no more RTI, I have to wake up early and get overpaid to stuff envelopes because our president doesnt want to pay essential less well paid people to do that job

Well mine idk where ur at

if you got anything else you can leave it here or save it whatever works

[kitcat]

OK, thanks for explaining. The baiting still feels kinda bad to me so I need to mull over your response a bit I think, when I'm a bit more awake

I guess I also don't like how you started talking about who you'd push if he flipped green when you'd been so sure earlier that he'd flip red

Also how would you describe your scumgame?

p-edit, ok g'nite!

[kitcat]

Maybe I should read the pedits before I post lol

[Slaxx]

OK, thanks for explaining. The baiting still feels kinda bad to me so I need to mull over your response a bit I think, when I'm a bit more awake

I guess I also don't like how you started talking about who you'd push if he flipped green when you'd been so sure earlier that he'd flip red

Also how would you describe your scumgame?

p-edit, ok g'nite!

I can answer one more.

It’s pretty common for me to leave flip-contingent reads. He also painted a target on my back saying I was PR so I really wanted to make sure I got that out.

My scumgame? I only have one recently completed scumgame, it’s Lovers and Losers, should still be in open thread. I was Lolwagons. I’m not going to blow smoke up your ass, I have a pretty good scum game. But I think the one thing I do different is try to really control the game early on more than I do as town. I can make fake cases on people all day every day but I have a hard time with explaining why my buddy is town.

[Slaxx]

So the quicker I can get in to control the narrative, the better off I am.

[CultOfAthena]

I'm gonna be honest here. Coming back to see that someone was already hammered and the game was in night phase kind of got me checked out of this game.

That being said, I have read things here and there, and I'm not entirely without reads.

I trust my Invisibility townread.
I think kitcat is pretty obviously town.
Eragon I also think is town.

Excluding myself, that leaves {SA, Slaxx, rooroo}. If we're feeling a little spicy we could even exclude rooroo for 156—which I thought was mildly towny—leaving us with just {SA, Slaxx}. But, that might be a bit too spicy.

Anyways, call me lazy or whatever, but I feel pretty alright voting Slaxx after everything I've just said combined with him pushing a mislynch on one of my townreads.

Vote: Slaxx

L-2.

[CultOfAthena]

I totally baited him into doing that. Bait doesn't have to be scummy.

Yeah the baiting felt bad to me.
I'm not sure it's inherently

scummy

but it does feel manipulative - like you were trying to set up a favorable argument for yourself against someone who couldn't defend themselves as well

It was 100% manipulative, but I think I had a pretty good basis for doing it. I'm fairly well known for shit like that, I just got out of a game where I suggested we mod kill a slot that mod accidentally cleared to fish for reactions from the 2 remaining unclears. I had no intention of actually modkilling the slot. It was actually Chibi's game lol.

Also, in my experience I've found people claiming things like this to somewhat reliably be scum. If someone's calling you out on something scummy (pocketing, manipulation, buddying, baiting, whatever) or basically just has you caught, you can't deny it and trying to deflect is unlikely to work – the smart play as scum is just to own it and say that it doesn't have to be scum-indicative.

[CultOfAthena]

Actually, on second blush I have to wonder if SA is the better first vote. It's 50/50 on whether scum!Slaxx would be bussing scum!SA right here, and I think SA is probably always scum here regardless of if Slaxx or rooroo is the buddy. Getting the better likelihood scum lynch today would be better for PRs.

I'm open to being convinced.

[Slaxx]

... then why would you need convinces to vote SA if you think I’m scum half the time and he’s always scum?

[kitcat]

Ok, so I thought about the baiting thing a bit more.
I still don't know if it's scummy, but it still feels wrong - I definitely got the vibe that you were trying to force an argument that you thought you could win, and I don't really think town approaches that situation that way. I don't think it's

impossible

for town to pick an argument against someone they're strongly scumreaidng in order to force the lynch, but i think it's more likely something scum do to make a mislynch happen.

[kitcat]

I also still don't get where the strength of your townread on me came from

[kitcat]

tunneling is when the highest poster maintains an idiotic scumread on me for most of day 1 every game because I'm low efforting or not 100% obvtown despite my posting not actually being scum-indicative at all.

actually the fact that pb thinks he's being tunneled here is probably a bit scummy

@COA: I also thought this post was kinda townie for rooroo. Not on Vizzy/Eragon tier, but definitely townie enough that I'm not very interested in lynching her today

I don't have a very solid read on you yet though.

[Sleepless Assassin]

V/LA until Saturday

I have ridiculous amounts of free time Saturday through Tuesday and will definitely catch up then barring something unexpected.

[Slaxx]

I also still don't get where the strength of your townread on me came from

Dude it’s a leaning town read based on a flip what’s not to get about it

[Slaxx]

Ok, so I thought about the baiting thing a bit more.
I still don't know if it's scummy, but it still feels wrong - I definitely got the vibe that you were trying to force an argument that you thought you could win, and I don't really think town approaches that situation that way. I don't think it's

impossible

for town to pick an argument against someone they're strongly scumreaidng in order to force the lynch, but i think it's more likely something scum do to make a mislynch happen.

Meh. Not much more we can say about that.

What do you think of CoA’s commentary?

[rooroo]

Also, in my experience I've found people claiming things like this to somewhat reliably be scum. If someone's calling you out on something scummy (pocketing, manipulation, buddying, baiting, whatever) or basically just has you caught, you can't deny it and trying to deflect is unlikely to work ? the smart play as scum is just to own it and say that it doesn't have to be scum-indicative.

suppose you are doing one of those things. what would the town response be if admitting it isn't?

[kitcat]

I also still don't get where the strength of your townread on me came from

Dude it’s a leaning town read based on a flip what’s not to get about it

Because I don't really understand the connection you're drawing between me and him. Or, I guess I understand it but I don't get why I'm not just scum there vote-parking and not unvoting despite calling him mildly town and opportunistically retracting the read when everyone else was finding him scummy.

[kitcat]

What do you think of CoA’s commentary?

Fine, not very much AI realy.

Slightly worried that she's backing me to get me to continue pushing you though