Micro 838: A Miccro Normal - Game Over

[Persivul]

Hi. I'll catch up later today.

[Persivul]

Persivul

Thats a name I haven't seen in awhile welcome

Thanks. I was off for a year or so. Sorry I'm not mollie.

[Persivul]

All things considered, though, if I set aside my paranoia, I think I still want to lynch Alisae. Other than the quickhammer yesterday, Alisae hasn't very little scumhunting since replace in, less than I like.

There’s one factor I think you’re missing here: Alisae’s active in a game that is lacking in activity.

I agree with you, but that begs the question: why is your vote on her?

What's your current read on the slot?

[Persivul]

The NM kill is really weird (as has already been mentioned). He barely played and had no scum reads. Seems either someone thought the was laying low (even by his standards) because he's a PR, or newbies intimidated by his join date.

[Persivul]

Surprised that ceejay didn't get pushed for the low activity. But, 45 and 107 look townie. Particularly 107 - that hammer didn't ring scummy to me. I've done the same as town. It's made out to be a big scum tell, but lynches based on quickhammers usually flip green..

[Persivul]

Which brings us to...

99 Gamma votes soda/alisae for the quickhammer.
100 Jumble joins in
103 singleton doesn't vote, but says he wants to lynch soda (this one doesn't bother me as much due to overall ISO)

102 Town cred for Lion

[Persivul]

Votecount 1.03

Suka (5) -

pirate mollie, NotAJumbleOfNumbers, GuiltyLion, Not_Mafia, InfiniteSoda

GuiltyLion (2) -

ceejayvinoya, Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald (1) -

singletonking

singletonking (1) -

Suka

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved.

ceejayvinoya is V/LA until Jan 1st.

It's likely there's a scum on this lynch. The intersection between the lynch wagon and the bad push on soda/alisae is Jumble.

VOTE: Jumble

Also suspicious of Gamma for the push on soda followed by the weird push on mollie's VLA request. That's two pushes today on technicalities rather than really engaging with people and trying to sort them.

[Persivul]

Now
Lets avoid what happened yesterday by saying that this guy is at

L-1

That means you’re supposed to NOT vote Jumble until they post and talk to us.

I feel like this should be common knowledge but you never know anymore :/

Yeah, actually:

UNVOTE:

FOS: Jumble

[Persivul]

@Pers- there's like 40 hours until deadline can you plz vote?

There's plenty of time. I have an FOS on the Jumble slot, but I need to see where Ari's reads end up before I decide whether to move that.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Ari

I'll be back before EOD to hammer

Huh...scum trying to get off a mislynch maybe, assuming it will go through anyway due to looming deadline?

but I'd like Pers to take a stand
like I asked before

I took a stand in 236: Jumble/Ari, then Gamma. Ari has done nothing to change that.

Why do you pretend that I haven't taken a stand.

[Persivul]

you haven't voted

There was no need to, as there was already L-1 and intent on someone in my lynch pool.

At least that was the case before you flip-flopped your vote for no reason.

I'll be available until 4pm Eastern.

But if you insist on a vote before then...

VOTE: TTTT

Why did you change your vote?

[Persivul]

Claim VT
Don’t lynch Ari after this though

Pers thoughts on this

Those are my top two scum reads. But, they're 1 and 2 on your wagon. That would be unusual for scum, so I'm doubtful they're both scum. If Gamma's lynched and flips red, I'll be less suspicious of Ari. If Gamma flips green, then Ari isn't looking good.

I was really hoping Ari would come in with some more content. He basically posted some banter, put a scum read on you which I disagree with, and disappeared. He was on site for some time last night but didn't post in this game.

[Persivul]

What do you think about TTTT's vote change with less than a day to deadline?

[Persivul]

I think I saw a hammer ya?

oh we lycnhed Gamma? good

I don't think so. By my count it's currently GL, Single, and Ali on him.

VOTE: Gamma

p-edit: @TTTT - nope, drops now.

[Persivul]

wait I thought Gamma was already lynched by Alisae? didn't deadline expire?

No, there's just under 5 hours left, or was before I hammered.

[Persivul]

thats a pog.

Though I have a reason to scumread everyone in the game fuck I hate this.

I hate that you came out of the gate with this. Sounds like scum keeping their options open so they can vote any wagon that arises.

[Persivul]

Oh, no scumflips so this is mylo...shit!

I told you guys Gamma was town! Thanks for listening.

What faction knows the alignments?

[Persivul]

Pers****
I meant Persivul!!!

I'm sorry

VT

[Persivul]

I have a reason to scumread literally everyone and I hate it.

Doubling down.

[Persivul]

Alright. I'm Bulletproof, and I believe I was shot last Night. I have a modifier but I'd like to conceal it unless you want me to claim it.

Makes sense - you're the towniest person in the game. Did you play it that way

because

you're BP, or is that just a fortunate draw?

[Persivul]

....

I mean, I can do that I guess?
That is an odd request though I get that it is to glean my motivations

Why act puzzled about it when you then acknowledge that you understand the purpose?

[Persivul]

ah well this sucks. was really hoping we had an investigative

I jailed Persivul last night and was figuring he was lock scum for that but now anything is possible.

N1 I jailed Jumble-now-Aristophanes

Why lock scum? Why can't you see me as the

target

of a NK?

[Persivul]

VOTE: single
I think this is a 1v1 I'm willing to do, I'll spend more time on it later but EoD yesterday made me feel very uneasy about it, and I kinda don't buy the BP claim.

Single's the towniest person in the game. When the towniest person in the game hasn't been NK'd by D3, I start to wonder why. But, a pre-emptive BP claim to counter that? Seems pretty unlikely. You need a strong case to make this push, and I seriously doubt that you have it.

[Persivul]

all I've deduced from this is that if single is scum then pers is his partner

Interesting - how did you come up with that?

[Persivul]

Ari's my scummiest read, but I want to do a meta look at him and consider possible partners before voting. Won't have time to do that until tomorrow at the earliest.

[Persivul]

Ari/TTTT

We should eventually consider the NL option.

[Persivul]

Ari is the de facto lynch for today.
We don’t need to no lynch to see that.

Yes, because Ari is the scummiest player. Instead of calling him that, you use "de facto lynch" as a euphemism, as if town wanting to lynch the scummiest player is somehow wrong.

I’m honestly okay with getting endgamed by single I don’t think I’m going to fight that anymore.
And GL is just town.

It just leaves those TTTT and Persivul.

Arriving at a lynch pool by POE isn't bad. That's largely how I arrived at TTTT. However...

I think I can case it as well. 1 second.

This is bad. If you're town, you're admitting that your results weren't actually based on actions, but now you're going to go back and view things through your current confbias to build a case. Consider this:

431 "I have a reason to scumread literally everyone and I hate it."

You could apparently go back and build a case on anyone if you wanted. That means that your cases really aren't worth much.

[Persivul]

The NM kill is really weird (as has already been mentioned). He barely played and had no scum reads. Seems either someone thought the was laying low (even by his standards) because he's a PR, or newbies intimidated by his join date.

@Single

- one of my factors for coming out the gate today with my read on you today was because of this. I feel like Scum would be the type to talk about the kill to try to push some agenda or something. I'm probably not finding the words for it atm, but maybe you get what I'm saying? Either way persivul also does that here and I completely forgot about it.

Previously:

140 141 Singleton finds the NM kill weird and talks about it.
143 You respond to those posts, and in no way find them scummy.

Why is this scummy now, when you didn't find it scummy before?

[Persivul]

Surprised that ceejay didn't get pushed for the low activity. But, 45 and 107 look townie. Particularly 107 - that hammer didn't ring scummy to me. I've done the same as town. It's made out to be a big scum tell, but lynches based on quickhammers usually flip green..

TR on a buddy, funny though, 107 can actually be percieved as TMIish if you think about it.

If you think about it

- you're acknowledging that you need to overthink this in order to find it "TMIish." Aside from that, it's a pre-flip associative. I've been gone for awhile but those used to be considered very low value.

[Persivul]

Votecount 1.03

Suka (5) -

pirate mollie, NotAJumbleOfNumbers, GuiltyLion, Not_Mafia, InfiniteSoda

GuiltyLion (2) -

ceejayvinoya, Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald (1) -

singletonking

singletonking (1) -

Suka

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved.

ceejayvinoya is V/LA until Jan 1st.

It's likely there's a scum on this lynch. The intersection between the lynch wagon and the bad push on soda/alisae is Jumble.

VOTE: Jumble

Also suspicious of Gamma for the push on soda followed by the weird push on mollie's VLA request. That's two pushes today on technicalities rather than really engaging with people and trying to sort them.

No real care or preference between 2 townies.

What two townies? The Jumble slot is still in the game, and is in your words the de facto lynch for today. You don't get to just declare the scummiest player in the game as town in order to manufacture a case on me.

[Persivul]

Claim VT
Don’t lynch Ari after this though

Pers thoughts on this

Those are my top two scum reads. But, they're 1 and 2 on your wagon. That would be unusual for scum, so I'm doubtful they're both scum. If Gamma's lynched and flips red, I'll be less suspicious of Ari. If Gamma flips green, then Ari isn't looking good.

I was really hoping Ari would come in with some more content. He basically posted some banter, put a scum read on you which I disagree with, and disappeared. He was on site for some time last night but didn't post in this game.

Foundation to try to lynch town today.

Again, you're declaring that the de facto lynch is actually town without reason.

If you're building a scum team around the proposition that Ari is town, you need to first convince people that Ari is town.

[Persivul]

I think I saw a hammer ya?

oh we lycnhed Gamma? good

I don't think so. By my count it's currently GL, Single, and Ali on him.

VOTE: Gamma

p-edit: @TTTT - nope, drops now.

The reason I FoS'ed Persivul coming into today is I really dislike how forceful the tone is on this hammer, it kinda felt like a wolf trying to shut off discussion.

This is an incredible reach.

There were less than 5 hours to deadline.
I had zero votes.
TTTT, my supposed buddy, had one vote on him which had been placed over a day earlier and hadn't gained any traction.

In that gamestate, how do you conclude that I was scum trying to shut off discussion? There was no discussion for scum!Pers to be concerned about.

[Persivul]

Ari/TTTT

We should eventually consider the NL option.

Let's distance it'll look town lol.

Also NLing today is awful, GL will just get shot.

This is a wolf blatantly suggesting the 2nd worst possible outcome (the worst being lynching the de facto lynch for the day)

First - why would lynching the scummiest player be the worst possible outcome today?

Second - why didn't you mention that the de facto lynch also said, in the very next post, that he is thinking of NL? Why do you scum read one person for the idea, yet defend another with the same idea?

[Persivul]

Like guys, think about it this way.

Aside from me, who is actually defending Ari?

No one.

TTTT lol no
Persivul? lol no
Single? Nah thats ur read.
GL? Considering he jailkeeped him no.

Thats the first sign this is probably a lynch on town in MYLO btw.

Most people scum read him, so he must be town.
What kind of logic is that?

[Persivul]

Also Alisae your entire case on TTTT/Persivul looked like you were forcing yourself and trying to throw everything you have to support your theory rather than analysing everything and I don't like it.

Yep. She developed the necessary reads first, then went back and fished for supporting material.

[Persivul]

Eh I think overall the scumteam is still Ari/Persivul

I still have Ari as strongest scumread, and I dislike some of Persivul's posts on the last page.

What posts do you dislike?

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:
Single and GL, how do you feel if we force Ari Persivul and TTTT to place votes?

I'll vote Ari.

You're overthinking this. Your argument is that everyone scum reads Ari, so for some reason in mylo that means he's not scum.

Have you actually read Ari's ISO lately? If not, go read it. It's not good.

[Persivul]

I already placed my vote.

This isn't that complicated
We are lynching today in Ari/Alisae/Pers

Trying to keep as many options open as possible?

[Persivul]

i didn't see why a scumteam not involving you would target you when there are townier players

There were townier players than Not Mafia, yet he's dead.

[Persivul]

I also am starting to dislike TTTT. I now think that Alisae was right that Persivul/TTTT are scum and planning a mislynch on Ari.

Yes, TTTT looks bad, particularly how he's noncommital and is now throwing Alisae into the mix.

Regarding my slot:

- Remember that it's a slot. I believe you were town reading Mollie. Do you have real reasons to scum read me after that, or is it just due to playstyle?

- Why do you think Ari's a mislynch? His content is shit. RL issues can excuse lack of posting, but even the posting he's done is bad. Alisae created the

Ari's too easy so must be town

narrative out of thin air. More often than not, the obvious answer is the correct one.

[Persivul]

GL was my other strong SR but

he was really town at EoD

and I'm treating his claim as truth

One thing I find scummy about TTTT: Town doesn't say the bolded here.

Why not? If you asked him why he said that that's one thing. Just a blanket

Town doesn't say X

is simplistic.

[Persivul]

What did you like about it? I disagree.

What do you disagree on?

How about the post in which I show Alisae's conclusion from my hammer was factually implausible?

You're just saying you dislike posts but giving no reasons for the dislike. That's your prerogative, but we have a better chance to get to the truth if we all actually talk about these things.

[Persivul]

Are you now asking this given that I'm now supporting Alisae in a you/TTTT theory?

I'm asking this because he went from town reading Alisae in 299 to including her in his scum pool in 489, and I don't see the progression in the read. That's part of why I scum read him in 492. I didn't mention it there because I wanted to see his reaction first, but then Alisae took over and I didn't get one.

[Persivul]

But what I dislike is you just straight up say I'm the "towniest person in the game" - like seriously, not an ounce of paranoia here before the BP claim in MyLo?

Towniest doesn't mean you were above suspicion - it means that you were townier than everyone else. I think that's apparent, and I think several other people would agree.

To be honest, the question had more to do with building some meta knowledge on you.

[Persivul]

Persivul, why are you pushing so hard for my lynch.

I'm not. I don't have a vote on you. I'm not saying

Come on people, let's lynch this

or anything like that. I will be doing that later in phase if nothing changes, but for now:
- I'm giving you a chance to change things because single said you have some RL things going on, and
- I'm trying to figure out if anyone other than TTTT (basically Alisae at this point) could be your partner

Frankly you're not helping the first point with this. Yes, I scum read you. No, I'm not pushing hard for your lynch right now. Why did you spin it that way?

[Persivul]

ASAP eh?

let's do this
what are you peeps waiting for?
^not rhetorical
I want to know what you are waiting for

Hell, Alisae accused me of trying to shut down conversation by having the nerve to hammer 5 hours before deadline. This is going down to the wire.

[Persivul]

Of course it's from a scum mindset. It stuck out like a sore thumb to me, but I'm getting tired of pointing out the obvious.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Ari

[Persivul]

it's also skeeving me out a little that Persivul dropped that vote and then hasn't revisited since

I'm reading. Alisae told me and TTTT to vote and then let the grown-ups decide the outcome, so that's what I'm doing. Her attitude irritated me, as she isn't conftown. That was my admittedly passive-aggressive protest. Plus, work has been hectic today.

I of course would have addressed anything new, but let's face it - there hasn't been anything new. You're just having understandable difficulty pulling the trigger. You don't really have to. No lynch won't kill us. Ali thought it was scummy of me to say we should consider that. You don't here her complaining about the possibility of it now.

I'm here for awhile if you want to talk.

[Persivul]

Ali, why are you content to mostly just defend Ari? Why haven't you been really pushing for a wagon on me or TTTT? If I were town and in your shoes, that's what I would have done. All you seem to care about is that Ari DOESN'T get lynched.

[Persivul]

If Ari is a wolf, then I get jailkept and I am proven to be town

You don't know that you'll be jailed, and that dodges my question - why aren't you trying to lynch scum?

[Persivul]

Like no matter what happens, my alignment is clear as day tomorrow
either that be by being endgamed or being alive because jailkeeper.

Why are you so concerned about yourself?

[Persivul]

Ari is scummy AF. Ali just planted a seed of doubt and it paralyzed you. I'd have no problem hammering him.

[Persivul]

17 minutes. Just sayin'...

[Persivul]

I like how with a bunch of talk of how scum doesn't send the scummiest member to do the kill TTTT and persivul agree to send the least scummy of the two (Persivul after TTTT's twilight trolling) to do the kill.
wew

I like how you gloat, when if the game were balanced you would have lost already.

[Persivul]

Two games (other I was town) finished today and both heavily favored town. Really turning me off from this site. No point in playing anything but opens.

[Persivul]

If you think this setup is super townsided it probably means you don't understand the fact that setups are more than the sum of their parts and that the bulletproof being there is a significant nerf to the power of the jailkeeper.

Persivul, sometimes you gotta look at what you could have done better instead of blaming external factors

Yeah, you're right. We should have created a bunch of mislynches.

Oh yeah, we did that. Even after Alisae solved the game, we did that.

A setup along these lines that would be better balanced would be:

1X BP - (Maybe you didn't notice, but THIS IS A FUCKING MICRO. A 2X BP has no place in a game that's likely only going 3 or 4 nights anyway.)
2X JK
vs.
Full rolecop

[Persivul]

A 2-shot BP in a micro is just not acceptable

QFT

[Persivul]

I get the logic behind it.
I don't agree with it.

Same here.

[Persivul]

and the mods keep trying to defend these ridiculous setups
its to the point that we have to play open or mountainous games to have any hope of balance

Yeah, I'm hesitant to join closed games now. And as you know, that's not just me complaining as scum, I'm saying the same in a game in which I was town. Town won, but I don't feel good about it.