mini 2051: tree's dump blitz - game over !!!

[Taly]

hey babes

I think we should still pose our own votes, but the jury shouldn't 100% abide by it.

If they did, that would give scum more power to direct a lynch based on our interactions entirely within the thread and without the ICs influence.

Since ICs are not part of the thread, they have a less-biased view of the gamestate.

xyzzy

, I fail to see whether someone abstained from the jury should be noteworthy, as it's not 100% clear of their alignment anyway?

(( also, can't think of GIFs to send for this game yet D: ))

[Taly]

I agree that lynchpools should be created.

I don't agree that anymore discussion about jury is useful until we see a lynch.

Clem good to see youre town

I'd like an explanation for this.

it implies things about their play style this game; presumably, anyone who abstained is someone who either felt that playing the main part of the game would simply be more fun or because they thought they would do better that way. obviously it'll be hard to develop a direct correlation between that and anything else but it absolutely can't hurt to have the information.

Yeah... it implies playstyle and nothing particularly alignment indicative. I'm unconvinced.

Do you alignment-indicative thoughts on the playerlist?

~

I'm not seeing

Trekkie

-scum with his current posts.

[Taly]

@North

Even if someone wanted to be scum and opted out of jury, they could've rolled town.

Questioning the likelihood of who all would've gotten scum if they had or hadn't opted for jury is a statistics problem, and that always detracts from gamesolving and is often wrong, or right for false reasons.

I don't see any critical thought geared toward gamesolving if we wanted people to spout information that's irrelevant to discussion-related content.

Now, do you have a read on

xyzzy

and any thoughts on his posts?
And why is disagreeing with 35 warrant a vote and a scumread on him?

I'm not seeing Trekkie-scum with his current posts.

why not?

His opinion of 32 sounds more like he's gauging for a reaction than anything else. Not "casting shade". Even if he did believe it's too early to have reads, why is that scum-indicative?

I also liked his 31 lol... He didn't seem concerned with

Clem's

vote, and essentially said he was happy that someone did something in the game.

The rest of his posts ring to me as a newer player, and remind me of my early-town self.

[Taly]

I'll reply more in depth tomorrow but

@xyzzy

I was meaning

Trekkie

for his 33 XD I mislinked the posts.

Replace 31 with 33 in my previous posts and my thoughts are more coherent.

[Taly]

if you know that someone prefers town and they really don't seem to be enjoying a game (or vice versa), that could clue you into their alignment. i've made those types of reads multiple times in multiple games.

I haven't played with anyone here enough to make that type of assessment.

If it means anything, a big reason why I joined this game was on the possibility to be jury, or at least be town. I prefer playing town more often so I don't have to alter the way I approach the game. So I didn't opt out.

@North's 44

I don't see scum-motivation with

Trekkie's

opening posts because I don't think scum would post much in the game. If people lost apathy and didn't contribute to discussion and a decision on a lynch can't be made by the jury, town loses. Him saying that "it's awfully early to get reads" and NOT voting

apthet

told me he's deliberately creating discussion by saying things that acquire a reaction.

RVS is overrated, so I've barely acknowledged people's posts as such.

I don't understand why

"getting out of RVS"

response is a scumclaim? I'm referring to 46. I don't see where he claimed scum, or if I'm reading correctly?

[Taly]

also Taly I don't really feel like 33 makes that much more sense in that regard? like they're both very casual responses to RVS votes in a game where the votes have zero weight

Another reason I'm not feeling

Trekkie

-scum is that they've had 3 votes thrown onto them within 50 posts, and no other vote has been recorded, and nobody has countered the arguments against him.

So I got the impression that it was - possibly - a town-led wagon on town.

I do agree that

Trekkie's

53 is a reach, but I'd like him to explain his thoughts more.

*You also didn't count his vote on Clemency in the VC.

[Taly]

Townvibes from: (order of

strongest to weakest

)

xyzzy, apthet, north, trekkie

If little else but because they've weighed in each a unique thought regarding votes/VCs, lynchpools, and how town can organize reads in this mechanic. 10 - 12 - 27

(I'm mentioning

xyzzy, north, and apthet

here, and I can expand on my thoughts behind them being towny upon request)

[Taly]

This feels like a Lorde-GIF game

[Taly]

@Trekkie

, respond to my prompt at the end of 58.

Taly seems off to me?

Explain.

prodding tonymontana and darklighta

just gut i feel like this might be one of those games where most top posters are town and scum are in the lurkers

phoneposting right now so will respond in more depth when i can

I already said this to a degree; what do you think about my reads thus far?

@TonyMontana

, I have a townlean on about 4 people so far that has been active in the thread, do you think I'm wrong with anything?

[Taly]

I like the depth of thought in your assessment

apthet

, but how can I "shut-down" people's reads just by giving my own?

Nobody is stopping you from dissecting or asking about my specific points on

Trekkie, you, xyzzy,

and

North

.

I see the argument that I'm not letting everything play out or fence-sitting, but I honestly don't feel scumvibes from any person in particular. Faking it will only hurt transparency, specifically in this game's mechanic since outside-thread people determine the game's course.

Also, townhunting is just as effective as scumhunting.

I am taking sides

even if I'm not generating suspicion or casting a vote.

[Taly]

From my understanding, if the 3 jury people can't decide on a lynch before the deadline, scum auto-wins.

Also

North

, reply to my post toward you in 57... specifically in reference to 46.

I'd really like to know where you saw a scumclaim from

Trekkie's

"I want to get out of RVS"

post.

[Taly]

I'm feeling better about

TonyMontana

from his 72

North

townvibe is nonexistent again.

[Taly]

[Taly]

havent thought of mafia much the past day becasue of new years (somewhat my fault, somewhat because of RL stuff)

will get to this tomorrow and reply to

Enter

where did

north

go?

[Taly]

[Taly]

I did not plan on getting to this game so late. :/ But the big bit of content has given me motivation

I need to re-evaluate all my townreads because

Clem's

flip confirms I'm likely wrong somewhere. Going to need time to filter through

North/Tony

and

Enter/Trekkie

interactions since I'm skimming to see a lot of posts there.

I will make an extensive post on my thoughts as early as possible tomorrow

[Taly]

Getting to this question, though, since I saw it yesterday.

(If I missed any direct questioning, please quote.)

you have two people you can save from being considered for lynch today and we can't talk about them for the rest of the day. Who are they and why?

Based off skimming:

Tony

and

apthet (apthet is the stronger thought here)

Tony

is unconfident here, as I haven't dissected his posts much post-

Clem

flip. But I get the idea that he's evaluating different situations instead of pushing reads, they don't feel forced.

Also, I was questioning my read on

North

when he posed his vote. If lynching him went out of the question, I wondered how that would change people's posts.

apthet

spills town. I wish I can do a bit better than soul-read, but each post they made is clear, shows them thinking beyond just surface level, and looking at each person. I liked that they prodded

xyzzy

in 131 and 132, and these posts made me feel more comfortable they're town. They also reevaluate their reads; and if I had to townbloc someone, this would currently be my only choice - but it's something.

These reads may change with a full read, but this is my thinking.

[Taly]

xyzzy

might replace

tony

depending on

xyzzy's

next posts

will give a rough readslist tomorrow as well

[Taly]

Everyone should read each spoiler. I spoiled them so it wouldn't be a textwall.

Spoiler: Reply to Tony

@Tony 106

Can you point to the points that say

North's

vote/wagon push on

Trekkie

was forced/fake?

115 I actually agree a bit with

North's

criticism here. What are your reads now

Tony

?

I say the jury should show both their power and ability to listen to reason, lynch northsidegal.
Lynching me would probably accomplish the same, but would only delay the inevitable.

The rest of your post here is a prime example of why discussing the jury so much is a shitshow for town.

Why would you throw a reality of you being lynched if you were town? What are the reasons you see

North

-scum based off her responses?

Spoiler: Reply to North

@North's 109 and 110

If you think I'm still town despite my playstyle, what makes you think it's town?

And I don't think the "scumclaim" response to

Trekkie

was seemingly a joke seeing as if this were an 8p, he'd have been put to L-2 with no resistance, and that I was essentially the only person that defended the push.

What is your read on

Trekkie

now?

113

xyzzy

has opinions on the full readslist when I doubt scum would likely tailor an opinion of their partner thus far, and weak meta points to me that this is

xyzzy

analyzing and gamesolving as town.

Spoiler: Reply to Enter

@Enter

Jury if you're paying attention at all, please just lynch Trekkie. I don't think I've seen anyone add more fake stuff to the game thread, and I honestly feel like I'm being mocked for my frustration in a town lynch via 124.

On a reread, I believe I know what you're talking about.

But I'd like to hear you explain your

Trekkie

-scumread, and for you to answer their questions.

Taly came across as a pretty strong town read from most players, and I agreed w/ most players, so

I was looking for his help to establish a town pool we could help prevent things like yesterday, where the jury just lynches someone from out of nowhere

.

+1

Spoiler: Reply to Trekkie

Trekkie, pls post your likely scum pools.

Right now my scum reads are you and northsidedegal.

xyzzy and tonymontana are town leans for me while apthet and taly are mixed.

Oh... is this because I townread your original scumread? 53

xyzzy

, I'm not too confident on

Tony

even though I townread him. Can you explain your thoughts on his 106 and your townvibe on him?

The universal Taly-townread has me pretty cautious, but townblocc'ing is a viable strategy here.

[Taly]

[Taly]

I hope I'm not being misted by

Enter

:/

[Taly]

You could've summarized your scumread on

Trekkie

in 3 sentences. The anecdote here feels unjustified and too theoretical.

156 seems disingenuous in the fact that you completely dismiss

Trekkie's

engagement with you in favor of your scumread based off only several pages of gameplay.

Your hard-lined confidence is unwarranted, and geared toward creating a rigid dichotomy between yourself and

Trekkie

.

VOTE: Enter

Answer their questions.

I'm not particularly interested in answering his half-assed questions he asks merely for the show of posting content, but if you think it would improve everyone else's chances of seeing where taly fits, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

Explain this, too.

[Taly]

Unorganized thoughts...

Like I genuinely see several of

Trekkie's

posts to be parroting another post to an extent in the thread.

But the reach and lack of rationality behind the scumread reasons there don't register as a town-led push at all, and if

Trekkie

is scum and everyone whose pushed him is town

(North, xyzzy, Enter, apthet)

I'm honestly floored because I don't see these types wagons ever flip red.

And I'm really bothered by the fact that I'm highly townread in the sense that "oh, this could be

Taly's

playstyle" or "everyone seems to agree this guy is town" - like I'm a 1000% scum-buddying magnet, wtf. (Namely looking at

North

and

Enter

)

I also keep reading

Tony

and

North's

and getting a lot of words but much less content that I can't discern their motives quite effectively.

Xyzzy

,

apthet

both make the most sense as town... and I like

Enter

townbloccing, but I also think the townbloc on

apthet

and

Tony

based off solely what I said is odd, considering he hasn't mentioned them in his own reads.

Deepwolfing paranoia suggests I should re-evaluate

xyzzy

soon too, but a good bit of meta tells me he's town, and I like his posts overall.

*ISO-skim*

...

Tony

can stick as town for now.

[Taly]

Less organized readslist....

Town

apthet
xyzzy

tony
trekkie

north
enter

SCUM

[Taly]

Each quote-to-quote post that is being created, the more difficult it is becoming for the jury to filter out bullshit.

We just need another lynch now. We're 5 hours from the deadline if I'm reading the first-lynch timing correctly.

[Taly]

I had already said it in three sentences, and you asked again for my reasoning. Not quite sure what the fuck you're trying to get from me.

More like 3 paragraphs of which 3 reasons were found in

since

my inquiry for clarification. 150

Now I'm reiterating a

second time

for you to respond to him since you're so certain

Trekkie's

scum. I'm trying to sort you both.

Nice dodge on avoiding the

"if it would improve everyone's chances of seeing where

taly

fits"

explanation prompt. Am I his buddy now?

I'm not posing rhetorical prompts and questions here.

Scum-buddying isn't even a 50% chance to flip scum and you should know that.

It can't be scum-buddying if it's town/town are townbloccing. I haven't seen a reason to think your townreads are genuine, since you asked and agreed with my opinion before giving any of your own reads.

If the

Trekkie

scumread truly isn't a reach, then break down your reasons and spell it out to me with bullet points and post links. Not a subjective theory on how you think scum and town would play in this game, while you note he's obvscum despite engaging with him.

[Taly]

you're trying to lynch me now is baffling to me though.

*I'm (Taly) pushing my scumread on you to gamesolve*

[Taly]

There are no invalid questions in Mafia.

Trekkie's

stated a suspicion of

apthet

and

xyzzy

(32 53 73) and even reasoned his uncertainties with me. 74 and 76 135 He even interacted with

xyzzy

.

Have you even ISOed

Trekkie

?

You denying all of these posts and misconstruing his questions toward you as tunneling is baffling to me. This is why your scumread on him seems blatantly overconfident and you continuing to drive this point reads as a forced lynch-plea to the jury

instead

of scumhunting.

but Trekkie's wagon has stood the test of time, two days specifically, so that should ping you as strange,

Only because people want to agree with most things I say in this game but don't change their stances accordingly.

[Taly]

I see no point in a back and forth.

My vote's not moving form

Enter

until he stops cherry-picking what he wants to respond to with my posts, and actually answer my prompts and

Trekkie's

assertions/questions.

[Taly]

[Taly]

Like any of them? How about you go through all of his questions and say how they confscum him?

[Taly]

If you're really town then you need to seriously redefine how you determine reads via interactions in games.

[Taly]

I'm curious how scum!Enter would deal with me flipping town if I'm lynched. I guess he would pass me off as a distraction that had to be gotten rid of anyway.

Literally this is what I'm envisioning with the incredible lack of depth in his reads and how he's painting your posts and himself through townbloccing.

[Taly]

I'll get to the thread tomorrow indefinitely

[Taly]

>_> without reading most of page 8 in depth tbh, I'm going to clarify that I actually read

Trekkie's

damn ISO.

Enter

, if you're basing your read on

Trekkie

off any previous game, could you link it? Because at the moment, there's several people I could accuse with a lack of motivation or push at the moment based off the last few days.

(apthet, xyzzy)

Omniste

most mirrored my read on

Trekkie

... provided I often strongly townread people who I think is unjustifiably scumread and pushed by most of the playerlist.

Lynching nsg was from a combination of factors. First, I feel like there has to be scum in the 1v1s of Enter/Trekkie99 and Tony/nsg, because I don't think both scum are in xyzzy, apthet, and Taly right now. Of those, I feel the most strongly that Trekkie99 is town, especially because he feels different than in Newbie 1901, which is the last game I played, where he replaced into a scum slot.

I felt like Enter could be scum, but that read has cooled based on his recent posts and discussion with my jury-mates.

I'm completely on the same page with

the bolded.

I'm trying to understand

the italicized.

Time to ISO dive

North

Reads

TOWN

Trekkie

xyzzy
apthet

Tony
Enter

SCUM

[Taly]

also, I don't mean to be nitpicky or uncooperative

Enter

(because I used to do walls all the time)

but if you want me to understand your reads and opinions the best, just give very concise bullet points, and I'm not talking about just the

Trekkie

read (by the way, what are your reads on everybody but

Trekkie

?)

[Taly]

Taly, what does "soulread" mean?

It's like a gut read, but it's more subjective.

How I use it is; if I find a town trait or scum trait within myself or something I've most often seen in others, then I label that as a soul read.

I don't get them often, and they're sometimes fickle.

Reads?

(Also, bring apthet above xyzzy on my readslist)

[Taly]

I'd be much more comfortable if

Tony

made content outside of

North

right now.

actually, I'm not confident in

xyzzy

town anymore at all.

[Taly]

xyzzy's

more oriented in engagement and response like his town-game.

But he was on the quick-votes/quick-push on

Trekkie

, and while he stated that votes were a good method of expressing our thoughts and pushes, he hasn't followed up much. 52 I can't find a lot of townreads in his 146, and even notes that he doesn't believe

North/Tony

is TvT. But doesn't do anything much with this good bit of content aside from further stating reasons to scumread

Trekkie

and asking questions.

I can still see

xyzzy

-town but it's fading, and I want them to assert their reads.

[Taly]

xyzzy

also had more "scum" and "questioning" reads than town... which doesn't strike me well in a 2:6 game.

[Taly]

Yeah,

North/Tony

felt TvS

Tony/Trekkie/apthet

are my townreads

I'll ISO-dive

North

later today probably, but

xyzzy/Enter

are the lowest on the list.

[Taly]

[Taly]

eh,

enter

is right above

xyzzy

now

*glares at page 8*

[Taly]

Bare with me, I looked at

North

and found a few quotes that caught my eye.

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: Noteworthy

xyzzy sounds town.
I did not opt out, but I considered it pretty strongly.

mind elaborating?

This post alone doesn't seem off, but the focus on a reason to townread

xyzzy

is more prevalent later.

Plus,

xyzzy

was pretty vocal on a means to approach this game, it doesn't make much sense that

North

asked

apthet

for an explanation and didn't follow up or add any read of

xyzzy

on her own.

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: North brushes off apthet to pursue Trekkie

xyzzy sounds town.

Awfully early to be getting reads IMO...

i disagree pretty strongly. why shade apthet for it being too early to make reads when you even asked to "get this party started"?

VOTE: trekkie

Without following up the

apthet

question,

North

strikes a vote against

Trekkie

with the argument of him

"shading

apthet

"

.

North

never entertained whether

Trekkie's

post was a reaction test. (As it was, solely off of

Trekkie's

"i got us out of RVS!"

post alone)

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: Distance from xyzzy while hardpushing Trekkie

Now, do you have a read on

xyzzy

and any thoughts on his posts?
And why is disagreeing with 35 warrant a vote and a scumread on him?

not really, he's pretty null.

what do you mean disagreeing with 35? if you mean me disagreeing with him saying that it's too early to be getting reads, i think it's logically inconsistent to both want to get the game moving and to point out to someone that it's too early to be getting reads. i also thought just in general that his entering with a joke into later RVS and then 32 and 33 was just a really awkward series of posts.

it's not like i'm claiming some high reliability scumread, but it's enough to warrant a page 2 vote.

Only 5 words for the

xyzzy

read, which was basically nothing, despite people forming an opinion of him already.

And several sentences of saying

"

Trekkie's

scum because he's inconsistent. I mean, this isn't quite reliable but still..."

Both answers read disingenuous.

Xyzzy

was WITH you on the

Trekkie

push but you never paid attention to that - scum distancing.

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: How North-Scum makes apthet/Trekkie/Tony very likely town

No I'm not worried about the jury potentially scumreading me. Why should I? And yes votes do matter because they help the jury come to their conclusions.

i still just don't feel like this is a town reaction. if you're town you

should

be worried about the jury scumreading you and your own mislynch – most townies, in my experience and myself included, tend to get pretty rattled when voted incorrectly or when there's a risk of their mislynch.

this sort of nonchalance just comes across as faked

This almost conftowns

Trekkie

to me.

-

Like most any interaction

North

has had with

Tony (112 - 118 - 137)

and

apthet (35 - 41)

in this game,

North

only talks about how jury, mechanics, and playstyle in this specific setup is town or scum, and nothing definitively AI. It's all situational.

- North

assumes that town WOULD be bothered by getting pushed as if that were a fact... Which covers up HER own behavior of

"you're misinterpreting me"

or

"that's not what I said"

There is NO benefit at ALL for this being a Scum/Scum interaction.

Her string of posts creates a strong dichotomy between

Trekkie/North

, which benefits NEITHER of them as a scum-duo because they have both been heavily suspected by the playerlist.

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: "why is xyzzy town?"

I already said this to a degree; what do you think about my reads thus far?

i like your apthet townread and as i'm sure you know still somewhat disagree with your trekkie townread

elaborate on xyzzy town? i don't really disagree (i'm townleaning him), i just want to hear your reasoning

Again with the

"give me another reason why

xyzzy

is town"

, she just plainly states she has a townlean and asks for a unique thought to piggyback.

It's literally the same mentality she had when reading and agreeing with me in 109 and 116. She provides a non-confident read that's based on what other people say.

North's

posting is basically to tunnel

Trekkie

to reinforce her posts, to doubt the read on me for fencesitting because I townread

Trekkie

, she's 1v1ing

Tony

to fill the game with fluff AND to defend herself, while she creates a blatant associative with

apthet

through townreading and making indirect posts toward her.

This points to

Xyzzy-North

scumteam because she reserves any reasoned opinion of him so nobody would think they're associated.

I'm also thinking

North

keeps questioning why someone thinks

xyzzy

is town, so she could push them if he flips.

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: North/xyzzy on Tony

TOWN
Taly
TonyMontana

apthet
northsidegal

DarkLightA
Clemency
Trekkie99
NOT TOWN

the bottom part of this might shift once replacements show up

explain tony being town?

This was during the

North V Tony

scenario.

xyzzy

puts 3 scumreads - one of which is

Trekkie

, which

North

I'm assuming is still scumreading here...

But

North

isn't focused on any of that. Her ONLY direct interaction with

xyzzy

, is her asking about the

Tony

townread, the person she's 1v1ing.

xyzzy

called

North/Tony

a Scum/Town interaction... but never pushed either two.

I'm confident its because

North/xyzzy

are scum, and they wanted to be on the SAME page with pushing

Trekkie/Tony

-scum while doing the bare minimum amount of interaction with each other, while they state suspicion of the other so they can position themselves at ANY point of them gets lynched.

Their only other interaction is 71 which I actually forgot about because of how irrelevant and content-less it was.

VOTE: xyzzy

I'm seeing a huge associative tell with

xyzzy/North

.

And I'm starting to see how

Me/Enter

could very likely be TvT.

[Taly]

*requoting for pagetop*

Bare with me, I looked at

North

and found a few quotes that caught my eye.

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: Noteworthy

xyzzy sounds town.
I did not opt out, but I considered it pretty strongly.

mind elaborating?

This post alone doesn't seem off, but the focus on a reason to townread

xyzzy

is more prevalent later.

Plus,

xyzzy

was pretty vocal on a means to approach this game, it doesn't make much sense that

North

asked

apthet

for an explanation and didn't follow up or add any read of

xyzzy

on her own.

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: North brushes off apthet to pursue Trekkie

xyzzy sounds town.

Awfully early to be getting reads IMO...

i disagree pretty strongly. why shade apthet for it being too early to make reads when you even asked to "get this party started"?

VOTE: trekkie

Without following up the

apthet

question,

North

strikes a vote against

Trekkie

with the argument of him

"shading

apthet

"

.

North

never entertained whether

Trekkie's

post was a reaction test. (As it was, solely off of

Trekkie's

"i got us out of RVS!"

post alone)

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: Distance from xyzzy while hardpushing Trekkie

Now, do you have a read on

xyzzy

and any thoughts on his posts?
And why is disagreeing with 35 warrant a vote and a scumread on him?

not really, he's pretty null.

what do you mean disagreeing with 35? if you mean me disagreeing with him saying that it's too early to be getting reads, i think it's logically inconsistent to both want to get the game moving and to point out to someone that it's too early to be getting reads. i also thought just in general that his entering with a joke into later RVS and then 32 and 33 was just a really awkward series of posts.

it's not like i'm claiming some high reliability scumread, but it's enough to warrant a page 2 vote.

Only 5 words for the

xyzzy

read, which was basically nothing, despite people forming an opinion of him already.

And several sentences of saying

"

Trekkie's

scum because he's inconsistent. I mean, this isn't quite reliable but still..."

Both answers read disingenuous.

Xyzzy

was WITH you on the

Trekkie

push but you never paid attention to that - scum distancing.

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: How North-Scum makes apthet/Trekkie/Tony very likely town

No I'm not worried about the jury potentially scumreading me. Why should I? And yes votes do matter because they help the jury come to their conclusions.

i still just don't feel like this is a town reaction. if you're town you

should

be worried about the jury scumreading you and your own mislynch – most townies, in my experience and myself included, tend to get pretty rattled when voted incorrectly or when there's a risk of their mislynch.

this sort of nonchalance just comes across as faked

This almost conftowns

Trekkie

to me.

-

Like most any interaction

North

has had with

Tony (112 - 118 - 137)

and

apthet (35 - 41)

in this game,

North

only talks about how jury, mechanics, and playstyle in this specific setup is town or scum, and nothing definitively AI. It's all situational.

- North

assumes that town WOULD be bothered by getting pushed as if that were a fact... Which covers up HER own behavior of

"you're misinterpreting me"

or

"that's not what I said"

There is NO benefit at ALL for this being a Scum/Scum interaction.

Her string of posts creates a strong dichotomy between

Trekkie/North

, which benefits NEITHER of them as a scum-duo because they have both been heavily suspected by the playerlist.

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: "why is xyzzy town?"

I already said this to a degree; what do you think about my reads thus far?

i like your apthet townread and as i'm sure you know still somewhat disagree with your trekkie townread

elaborate on xyzzy town? i don't really disagree (i'm townleaning him), i just want to hear your reasoning

Again with the

"give me another reason why

xyzzy

is town"

, she just plainly states she has a townlean and asks for a unique thought to piggyback.

It's literally the same mentality she had when reading and agreeing with me in 109 and 116. She provides a non-confident read that's based on what other people say.

North's

posting is basically to tunnel

Trekkie

to reinforce her posts, to doubt the read on me for fencesitting because I townread

Trekkie

, she's 1v1ing

Tony

to fill the game with fluff AND to defend herself, while she creates a blatant associative with

apthet

through townreading and making indirect posts toward her.

This points to

Xyzzy-North

scumteam because she reserves any reasoned opinion of him so nobody would think they're associated.

I'm also thinking

North

keeps questioning why someone thinks

xyzzy

is town, so she could push them if he flips.

Spoiler: Quote Dissection: North/xyzzy on Tony

TOWN
Taly
TonyMontana

apthet
northsidegal

DarkLightA
Clemency
Trekkie99
NOT TOWN

the bottom part of this might shift once replacements show up

explain tony being town?

This was during the

North V Tony

scenario.

xyzzy

puts 3 scumreads - one of which is

Trekkie

, which

North

I'm assuming is still scumreading here...

But

North

isn't focused on any of that. Her ONLY direct interaction with

xyzzy

, is her asking about the

Tony

townread, the person she's 1v1ing.

xyzzy

called

North/Tony

a Scum/Town interaction... but never pushed either two.

I'm confident its because

North/xyzzy

are scum, and they wanted to be on the SAME page with pushing

Trekkie/Tony

-scum while doing the bare minimum amount of interaction with each other, while they state suspicion of the other so they can position themselves at ANY point of them gets lynched.

Their only other interaction is 71 which I actually forgot about because of how irrelevant and content-less it was.

VOTE: xyzzy

I'm seeing a huge associative tell with

xyzzy/North

.

And I'm starting to see how

Me/Enter

could very likely be TvT.

[Taly]

Will dive into

xyzzy

more individually later

Reads
TOWN

Trekkie
apthet
Tony
Enter

xyzzy

SCUM

[Taly]

but atm i think the game is solved so

[Taly]

@Enter

Dichotomies are usually ideas that are intentionally-made to oppose each other, often without much reason or thought.

1v1s present a dichotomy. "This is how town/scum is" V "This is how town/scum should be" are another example.

Dichotomies often present a communication barrier and an obstacle for town players to filter through what's true/false in a game, and scumhunt/gamesolve. It's easy for scum to position themselves favorably around a TvT, or create a dichotomy and "fight" with another player to generate chaos and a greater hole of miscommunication in the town.

It's also easier to confuse things such as playstyle and alignment indicative behaviors within a person if everyone speaks of "how ideally one should play".

More dichotomies that exists means more town communication barriers. Allowing scum to easily manipulate the game, and run their own narrative.

Now, can you talk about my case on

xyzzy

? 'Cause that's currently more important to me right now.

[Taly]

I'm confident its because North/xyzzy are scum, and they wanted to be on the SAME page with pushing Trekkie/Tony-scum while

Why is this important?

It feels like your xyzzy read is based mostly off the fact that NSG doesn't like sharing her opinion of him. Would that be accurate?

....No..... there's multiple different reasons that point to why I think

xyzzy

is currently the best candidate to be

North's

partner,

"North doesn't want to talk about him"

I think the way

North

had distance and referenced

xyzzy

was indicative of distancing, and I found it odd that

North

was only concerned about

xyzzy's

thought on

Tony

.

@xyzzy's 232, I already stated my thoughts here in 218 but I'll elaborate more

-

His statement about

Trekkie's

posting being bad was just reinforcing the

"I want to hard-suspect

Trekkie

"

bandwagon

-

His question to you here was OK, but he hasn't followed up on anything here.

-

xyzzy

is disagreeing with

Tony

on a few things, but states it feels genuine? He doesn't expand on why or how.

-

xyzzy

further iterates the possibility of

North

being scum with the

"comes off as scum spewing in response to

Tony

"

, but he doesn't push this, and it reads as fencesitting to me.

-

xyzzy

continues to state more of

North's

thoughts on how town would be freaked out as weird, but doesn't push that in favor of the only other scumread he has -

Trekkie

.

-

xyzzy

states neutrality on

apthet

and does nothing else... but doesn't say she or I would be scum-buddies.

-

xyzzy

- near the bottom of the post - states

North/Tony

as unlikely to be TvT, but continues with the

Trekkie

-first being the best lynch option.

He doesn't really ask many questions, and has a total of two notable townreads.

I'm not 100% confident in

xyzzy

-scum, but I'm pretty close, and I can't think of someone else that best fits an associative.

Town:
Tony
Xyzzy

Taly

Trekkie
Apthet
Scum

I can understand your inquiry on

apthet

, but you do realize there's only one scum left, correct? One of your scumreads have a towny within them.

I'm still not sold on

Trekkie

scum, has the read on him changed at all with my case?

You seem to directly disagree on

xyzzy

, so can you elaborate more on your townread based off his posts thus far?

Also, I don't know if I've played with you before, and if I did, that meta is both stale and useless on both sides.

[Taly]

Both answers read disingenuous. Xyzzy was WITH you on the Trekkie push but you never paid attention to that - scum distancing.

Distancing is a huge scum tell for me, however xyzzy's post #146 does have some seemingly legit scum reading on NSD. So I'm not to sure what to think.

Any chance there's more than one scum remaining?

I explained more on how I saw

xyzzy's

146 has fencesitting with

Tony/North

.

And unless I've read the setup completely wrong and I'm being very, very dumb right now, there's only one scum left.

Who do you think is most likely scum? If we ignored associatives, OR if you think I'm misguided about

xyzzy

?

[Taly]

So

Tony

, I'm gathering you see a stronger likelihood with

apthet/North

than

xyzzy/North

?

Jury, in my opinion: Kill xyzzy, then Enter. You can kill me whenever you want to -- arguing against Tony and Enter seems to me like a waste of time (and I'm still on vacation, haha). Would be cool if both of my reads were right though.

...So you're good with being lynched as long as 2 other people are?

And do you think both

xyzzy/Enter

are scum? What?

Taly is far more likely to just be posting in weird ways than apthet to have "accidentally" forgotten what she was reading people

>: im smart tho

[Taly]

OK I'm seeing the

apthet

scumread now, but I want

Tony

to evaluate my

xyzzy

points a bit more.

[Taly]

when your reads suck and sadness intensifies

[Taly]

i just want

xyzzy

and

apthet

to do something other than prodge

i mean, yeah, ive done better scum-cases before but im at least very confident in this townbloc:

Tony
Trekkie
Taly
Enter

[Taly]

apthet

because i think some points on

xyzzy

can be applied to her,

north

had pretty ineffective interactions with her, but it never became a 1v1 like with

Tony

, plus

north

practically ignored

apthet

readwise herself

plus i see

enter/tony's

POV with their recent posts on her

and i did not like the

xyzzy/Enter

"as long as they're lynched i can follow"

post last page... town does not post these things unless they're actively going against their wincon.

we only have 1 scum left and she's putting up multiple options while completely bargaining herself to the jury later

- Shows that she's not confident in either option as scum, likely because she knows they're town at this point.
- Town should never want to be lynched, especially while putting up multiple lynch options, this is a scum-motivated WIFOM tactic
- Also her reads cannot be correct at all... there's one scum left, and she's expressing a

xyzzy/Enter

lynch order ((which is actually similar to my reads on my FIRST few posts after the

north

flip))

i mean, tbh 243 alone makes me want to see

apthet

lynched.

[Taly]

I really don't know want to be "either x or y" but I can't see both

apthet/xyzzy

as town. :/

[Taly]

apthet was a bad lynch (she wasn't like........ conf town but she was also not obvious scum) but honestly I don't know what the jury are even doing this game

my #1 scum read is still trekkie but pretty much since the end of day 2 message I've been acting under the assumption that that'll never happen. taly's sudden laser-focused tunnel on me feels like it could be scum realizing that he suddenly has to win this whole game alone and trying to find an easy target?

I don't know what to make of enter at all at this point tbh

Yeah... I'm confident you're scum here. If this is your townplay then it seriously sucks.

-

You literally stated NOTHING about the

apthet

lynch until after-the-fact, so you can say it's "bad" and look perceptive.
_- You've done nothing to push, entertain, or change your perspective on

Trekkie

, you just baselessly continued your thought there despite multiple pages of discussion on differing opinions around

Trekkie's

alignment.

-

Nothing in your posts direct to any specific point I made on you being scum, you didn't even mention an

NSG

-associative-based read on either myself or

Trekkie

- your supposed scumreads.

-

Your scumread on me is because of a "laser-tunnel" ??? Tunneling isn't NAI and the more you post the more valid I feel about my read. You didn't even give a concrete read on me either... Which reads as a fencesitting response that you can withhold in the hypothetical possibility I get lynched and you know I'll flip town.

-

You are by no means

"an easy target"

xyzzy

, I'm the only person that's actually PUSHED a scumread on you - after actually looking into your interactions and play - so I can fill in the holes within this game. The labels you place on my opinions here is only geared to minimize any suspicion placed on you.

If my scumread on you is completely irrational off the basis you deemed, then answer this:

- Why am I not scumreading

Trekkie

? He's been the easiest-pushed lynch this entire game, your argument of being scum by trying to "just lynch" people is wrong.
- Why am I townreading

Enter

? I disagree with his assessments but I still see a good wealth of town-motivation within him that's based on my interactions and view of his play.

At most points in this game, you've avoided to actually discuss it, and your response right here shows how much more invested you are in dividing the playerlist rather than gamesolving.

[Taly]

There's slight hesitation with the scumread on

xyzzy

, as I've been wrong on them before.

If they are really town, I'd like for them to give another readslist update, with no

"x could be y for z reason"

or

"this is what jury is / what this case means"

I'd like to hear

Tony's

input on the game too. My biggest fear right now, is that town is wrong with their main lynch ideas and not enough information is being placed into the thread for jury to accurately or thoroughly evaluate.

[Taly]

ok

psyche

pick up the pieces where

tony

SLACKED

namely while i post GIFs of Lorde dancing

[Taly]

im treating this as a win ty for modding

schadd