mini 2051: tree's dump blitz - game over !!!

[xyzzy]

schadd just to clarify if we vote for people will you track them for us or do we have to do our own votecounts

anyway

VOTE: clemency

[xyzzy]

nsg I generally like that plan but I also think that the jury shouldn't feel beholden to end the day as soon as we reach a majority among ourselves. like we can't actually know for sure that they'll abide by that plan so we shouldn't base the way we play on the assumption that they will

btw I think at some point anyone who opted out of being on the jury should claim that. idk when will be the ideal time to do that but it's worth knowing who specifically wanted to not be on the jury and who was fine either way

[xyzzy]

oh like treestump

[xyzzy]

hey babes

I think we should still pose our own votes, but the jury shouldn't 100% abide by it.

If they did, that would give scum more power to direct a lynch based on our interactions entirely within the thread and without the ICs influence.

Since ICs are not part of the thread, they have a less-biased view of the gamestate.

xyzzy

, I fail to see whether someone abstained from the jury should be noteworthy, as it's not 100% clear of their alignment anyway?

(( also, can't think of GIFs to send for this game yet D: ))

it implies things about their play style this game; presumably, anyone who abstained is someone who either felt that playing the main part of the game would simply be more fun or because they thought they would do better that way. obviously it'll be hard to develop a direct correlation between that and anything else but it absolutely can't hurt to have the information.

[xyzzy]

trekkie, there is no such thing as having reads too early. reads can be revised, but there's no reason you can't have an opinion on the choices someone has made just because it's only been a page or two.

Taly, your town read on Clemency for 31 is really weird. an RVS vote in this game isn't something anyone should be concerned about. what kind of reaction do you imagine scum would have to that vote?

VOTE: Trekkie99

here's a real votecount! I don't want to say it's better than schadd's votecount because quite frankly it's not, but it might be more useful.

votecount 1.01

3 players voting for Trekkie99 (Clemency, northsidegal, xyzzy)

8 players not voting (apthet, DarkLightA, Clemency, Taly,

Munchmellow

, TonyMontana,

Flicker

,

Child

)

[xyzzy]

Trekkie you're reaching super hard and you're making bizarre conclusions. plus the votes literally don't matter unless the jury decides they do. I feel like you're freaking out b/c you're worried the jury are scumreading you

also Taly I don't really feel like 33 makes that much more sense in that regard? like they're both very casual responses to RVS votes in a game where the votes have zero weight

[xyzzy]

Trekkie, this game is informed minority vs uninformed majority. most people

are

town, so townreading people early in the game is totally rational.

apthet could be scum trying to establish a quick connection to a town player so she looks better, sure, but to come to that conclusion because she quickly forms a townread doesn't really make sense.

Taly, I think the biggest reason the wagons so far haven't really done anything is because the majority of players aren't really engaging with votes as a good way of expressing our thoughts; tbh I doubt the jury are giving much credence to a system that very few people are using.

[xyzzy]

prodding tonymontana and darklighta

just gut i feel like this might be one of those games where most top posters are town and scum are in the lurkers

phoneposting right now so will respond in more depth when i can

what gives you that impression? imo in this sort of setup the mafia aren't necessarily incentivized one way or the other -- there are enough possible mislynches that scum shouldn't be the biggest lurkers, but in a normal game, you can tell whether the people who might vote you think you're lurker scum or just a town lurker by reading what they say about you. they don't have that luxury here.

[xyzzy]

TOWN
Taly
TonyMontana

apthet
northsidegal

DarkLightA
Clemency
Trekkie99
NOT TOWN

the bottom part of this might shift once replacements show up

[xyzzy]

so before DarkLightA was in my scum reads, but that was pretty much due to him being a lurker; now that he's been replaced, Enter seems a lot townier to me. his entrance was super solid.

Trekkie's 90 was a comically bad post. speck in my eye, plank in your eye etc etc etc

Enter, in 91 you asked Taly which two people he would save from being lynched today given the ability to do so; what prompted you to ask Taly in particular that question and not everyone?

Trekkie's 93 is such a bullshit noncommital answer. it's tempting to write off some of Trekkie's scummy behavior as just him being a somewhat new player who hasn't totally found his feet, but being unwilling to answer such a direct question like that isn't a good look.

TonyMontana's 106 about northsidegal is interesting. I don't totally agree with all of his ideas (the thing about reducing a 2:9 game to 2:6 is just... not really an accurate reflection of anything?), but the whole post seems to come from a very genuine place.

nsg's like 10 posts in a row don't feel good though. that comes off as scum spewing in response to being scumread by TonyMontana.

nsg's 111, I find the assertion that town would become especially freaked out at being scumread kind of weird. like obviously the best way to fulfill your win condition with any alignment is to never die, but the threshold of how many town players can die and still have the town win is much higher than the mafia's threshold.

my TonyMontana town read is just that he's engaging with the game in a way that feels very town to me. not very many posts, but they all feel very genuine to me.

I still feel super neutral on apthet. her 131 just feels like it could come from anyone. I think if she is scum, her partner isn't Taly, though I don't have a strong opinion on who it might be instead.

I don't think the nsg/Tony thing is tvt. I'm deffo leaning toward Tony being town, so an nsg lynch might be the best option, and a Tony lynch if she flips town. I'd prefer Trekkie first because having to argue with him is actively detrimental to the whole town -- I don't think deliberating over just how scummy he is is actually helpful.

TOWN
Taly
TonyMontana

Enter
apthet

northsidegal
Trekkie99
NOT TOWN

[xyzzy]

henlo everybody

I keep thinking "oh well not much time has passed since I last posted and not much has happened in the thread since then" but it turns out it's been a couple days and a lot has happened! I will make a big post soon but I wanna get breakfast first, okay

[xyzzy]

I was gonna make a long post but tbh nothing has happened that's all that interesting in the last page or two and my eyes glaze over whenever I try getting anything out of it

[xyzzy]

Taly it seems like your entire scumread of me is based on the fact that northsidegal had a stated weak townread on me and she never really fully elaborated on that read. idk about you but in most games I play I generally have a couple folks for whom I have no strong opinions at all regardless of alignment.

you also completely ignore my reads on nsg. that would be some pretty aggressive bussing from me as scum. bussing is pretty dangerous in this setup, and I'm not exactly the most eager to bus in general.

[xyzzy]

apthet was a bad lynch (she wasn't like........ conf town but she was also not obvious scum) but honestly I don't know what the jury are even doing this game

my #1 scum read is still trekkie but pretty much since the end of day 2 message I've been acting under the assumption that that'll never happen. taly's sudden laser-focused tunnel on me feels like it could be scum realizing that he suddenly has to win this whole game alone and trying to find an easy target?

I don't know what to make of enter at all at this point tbh

[xyzzy]

-

You literally stated NOTHING about the

apthet

lynch until after-the-fact, so you can say it's "bad" and look perceptive.

how am I supposed to comment on something that hasn't happened yet?

_- You've done nothing to push, entertain, or change your perspective on

Trekkie

, you just baselessly continued your thought there despite multiple pages of discussion on differing opinions around

Trekkie's

alignment.

the jury made it absolutely clear that they have zero interest in lynching Trekkie and that they don't really care that much what the rest of us think. focusing on Trekkie isn't a productive use of anyone's limited time.

-

Nothing in your posts direct to any specific point I made on you being scum, you didn't even mention an

NSG

-associative-based read on either myself or

Trekkie

- your supposed scumreads.

I don't tend to focus as hard on associative tells, because I know based on my own play that there's generally not really anything there. you're free to scumread me based on associative tells if you want, but the fact that I'm not doing the same thing isn't indicative of me being scum.

-

Your scumread on me is because of a "laser-tunnel" ??? Tunneling isn't NAI and the more you post the more valid I feel about my read. You didn't even give a concrete read on me either... Which reads as a fencesitting response that you can withhold in the hypothetical possibility I get lynched and you know I'll flip town.

you were high on my town list before the current day; there are a number of explanations for your sudden scumread on me, and one of those possible reasons is that you're scum.

-

You are by no means

"an easy target"

xyzzy

, I'm the only person that's actually PUSHED a scumread on you - after actually looking into your interactions and play - so I can fill in the holes within this game. The labels you place on my opinions here is only geared to minimize any suspicion placed on you.

when I say I'm an easy target, I mean it was trivially easy for you to go into NSG's iso and pull out quotes that made me look like her possible partner.

- Why am I not scumreading

Trekkie

? He's been the easiest-pushed lynch this entire game, your argument of being scum by trying to "just lynch" people is wrong.
- Why am I townreading

Enter

? I disagree with his assessments but I still see a good wealth of town-motivation within him that's based on my interactions and view of his play.

why, exactly, is it incumbent on me to answer for your reads?

[xyzzy]

hey I'll be around to post sometime tonight. I'm on the road to majiffy right now. I just got lunch at Sheetz. very exciting times

[xyzzy]

winning by default as a result of a deadline passing is the best kind of winning

(also I totally was planning on doing a post last night but then I drank approximately two whole pitchers of Sam Adams Cold Snap, and then today I just forgot)

very good end game flavor schadd! I'm into it

[xyzzy]

also I'm very excited to read the jury thread