Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: Tibor and Lumia
I know you just came back and all brass but unfortunately.... now you must die

[Shoshin the worst]

That is good to know. Thanks Vars--looking forward to playing with you again.

[Shoshin the worst]

Never again? What happened before?

viewtopic.php?p=10629498#p10629498

Kokichi was this. He never bothered activating in MyLo after claiming really clumsily so we quickhammered him.

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: Alchemist

[Shoshin the worst]

All posts come from both of us. We're playing this game together as one player.

[Shoshin the worst]

We've spoken about it a fair bit and have made the decision not to focus on signing. We expect quite a bit of clutter because of all the hydras, so we're synchronising our reads as much as possible before posting & collaboratively writing the majority of our posts.

If we did sign we'd be signing most of them jointly anyway - we don't intend to go against everyone's wishes wrt not signing but we're intending to play this game as "one voice" so as to make signing mostly redundant. Hopefully that's something everyone is prepared to respect.

(also as an obvious-tw aside: starcraft round 1 should prove neither of these heads are tonereadable )

-Shoshin & the worst

[Shoshin the worst]

not feeling the kokichi IC claim but i slight townvibe it anyway

This is super awkward.

VOTE: Taly

[Shoshin the worst]

whats awkward is that L-3 wagon on you

What's awkward about it Taly?

[Shoshin the worst]

We're doing this because we think two players posting independently under the same slot harms the ability to scumhunt. We're avoiding any sort of schizophrenic posturing, hydra dissonance, disorganized/contradictory noise, which means you can treat us as if we aren't a hydra. This will make things easier for those who dislike or struggle with sorting hydras.

Stretch your minds a bit, break out the "hydra theory" box you're in, and maybe you'll realize that we're doing this for the town's benefit? We'd never limit ourselves like this as scum (before the game we discussed different ways we could abuse hydra mechanic if we were scum and this wasn't it).

-Shoshin & the worst (super redundant but I guess we'll keep signing for our slower-witted readers)

[Shoshin the worst]

This is our first game ever. No meta exists for us yet.

-Shoshin & the worst

[Shoshin the worst]

We recommend unvoting before Koki (or someone else) quickhammers.

-Shoshin & the worst

[Shoshin the worst]

Fun fact:
On my now deceased homesite (RIP ScrewAttack) there was a rule against signing posts and asking individual heads for reads. This is where my personal theory on hydrae being a single unit comes from. I see nothing wrong with what Shoshin The Worst is displaying here.

Followup Fun Fact:
Discussing this instead of the game is giving me bad vibes on Varsoon. I get that it matters but it's clogging the thread. We should drop it and let the mod rules about signing kick in.

Final Followup Fun Fact:
I Fucking love alliteration

- Por Flavor

Oof! I was quadruple ninjad! Dayum.

Ari no, I disagree, Varsoon is right. Does it necessarily make them scum? No but this isn’t your old site and they know that here and they are digging in thier heels despite strong opposition. That isn’t sitting right with me.

~Nancy

This is an example of the behavior we're avoiding. Yes, we're a fictive person, but that doesn't mean we're incapable of playing together as one.

-Shoshin & the worst (aka Shoshin the worst)

[Shoshin the worst]

Could everyone clarify why they're voting us?

-Shoshin & the worst

[Shoshin the worst]

Varsoon posted 2 links, one to Starcraft 1, where you encouraged everyone multiple times to “stretch their mind” and the second, to TAZ, where you didn’t do that even once.

That's a bad use of meta. There's nothing inherently scummy about that phrase. It just means "break out the box you're in," or "challenge your way of thinking," which are phrases I've definitely used before as town (e.g. in Laybrinth when discussing your reads).

For some background, I say "stretch your mind" quite often in my yoga teaching to shift how people relate to their mind/body during a practice. It's just a part of how I speak in real life contexts. I'd never thought to use it in the context of mafia until Starcraft 1 because I don't usually use the phrase in an intellectual context.

I was very happy with how it applied in Starcraft 1 and I couldn't even contain my excitement when Varsoon picked the phrase up. Yes, it's such a great phrase that even Varsoon (who doesn't seem to like me much) used the phrase himself in Starcraft 1, as TOWN. Point being, it has nothing to do with alignment. It's just a phrase with a useful meaning in the context of a mafia game. I intend to use it a lot more.

-the worst

[Shoshin the worst]

This signing posts thing and follow up posts are the scummiest posts of the thread. Why does town you not just go okok jeez and start signing?

We are signing. That doesn't change the fact that most posts are written by both of us.

-Shoshin & the worst

[Shoshin the worst]

P.edit. It is suspicious. Ari thought it might be some kind of RVS gag but I agree, it is kind of giving me slight scum vibes, especially considering both were scum in Starcraft 1.

I'm sorry, what?
what part of it is giving you scumvibes? It is literally a decision we made pre-game.

whats awkward is that L-3 wagon on you

What's awkward about it Taly?

Your response to it.

elaborate please?



@nancy you should feel bad for nearly every post you've made. Literally. You're peddling nonsense.
@harpoon your ISO has become such a farce I'm losing my rvs townread on you. get back to fucking playing.

we're 7 pages in and the only person not circularly shitposting about misunderstanding out hydra dynamic seems to be Taly, who is instead making nonsense reads which I like for scum. is anybody else town this game? probably. why the fuck are town wasting so much time on game theory related nonsense which is not going to catch scum? this is a decision we made post-game. if you don't like it push us for it but embrace the fact you're pushing a POLICY LYNCH and when people re-read this nonsense after we flip you're going to look exactly as stupid as you're beiny. given the strength of this list I'm surprised how much stupid bullshit you're all entertaining rather than actually playing mafia.

can anyone even give me reads on slots other than ours? jfc

- obv!Shoshin

[Shoshin the worst]

I'm not negotiating. I am telling you, if you're town you need to start reconsidering the way you approach this kind of situation.
When I'm less annoyed I will be looking for players who are actually trying to sort the game.

Why are you hyperfocusing on our hydra dynamic when it is a pregame decision and there are fourteen other slots?

[Shoshin the worst]

┐(´д｀)┌

- Shoshin

[Shoshin the worst]

@nancy you should feel bad for nearly every post you've made. Literally. You're peddling nonsense.
@harpoon your ISO has become such a farce I'm losing my rvs townread on you. get back to fucking playing.

can i take these to be scum reads?

sadly not. we are nulltown on Varsoon but are also considering just ignoring him until he removes his trousers from his head. Ari has also been towny and I am not sure getting preoccupied by this bullshit is scum indicative for Nancy.

take it as my "slap yourself upside the head" reads.

taly is a scumread though

[Shoshin the worst]

Your hydra signing is the least of why I scumread you.
I'm not going to re-assess because the last time that you used a combination of 'stretch your mind', emotional rhetoric, and this kind of browbeating to force me to reassess an early scumread on you, you were third party anti-town.
So, nope.
Not going to happen.

yes and we were both universally townread there
=> the stuff you are describing is the towngame or Shoshin, independently.

using a phrase she used ?once? maybe twice? in a single scumgame which she uses irl as a reliable scumtell is a trainwreck and uou should know that. Nancy will be able to testify to TPFKAP's "witch hunt" tell. that is only reliable because that player has used it across enough games it's obviously a subconscious wording choice.

[Shoshin the worst]

I think either :-
1) you are genuinely tunnelled on this (there's guaranteed to be at least one towny who is). I can't allow that to continue and I need you to realise its objectively incorrect sooner or later. or,
2) you are scum looking for nonsense to yell about in the thread so people go "ah ok guess this is town-ragespam-Varsoon, better let that go!". don't forget the mainscum team didn't townread you until you conftowned yourself, via your claim that they were informed was aligned with the town. we know that you can lay down a farcical version of your town meta as scum. we can't allow this either.

so move on or give us something we can react to.

[Shoshin the worst]

Oh sorry, not universally. Guess I forgot a few slots (two of whom were lynched). semantics bro

[Shoshin the worst]

if you could give taly a quick ISO then ctrl+f "taly" in our iso I think you'll get the gist of it. I'm not fully ready to reveal what we've picked up on QUITE yet.

[Shoshin the worst]

Synchronicity Side Bs! A50 you still just get me.

[Shoshin the worst]

Varsoon we've been sorting and moving the game more than you. When people stop hyperventilating about out hydra decision, we will look townier than you. We don't need the towncred of explaining our Taly read preemptively. taly is the kind of player capable of writing in a narrative driven fashion which means if we alert him to what were looking at/for too early, we'll lose what momentum we do have.


So, no. I am not going to bow down to your browbeating overbearing tactics. Disagreeing with us here is only beneficial for Taly, in that he'll be harder to catch if he is indeed scum. If you heavily disagree, explain why he's town. You are going to need the towncred more than us.

~ the worst & Shoshin

[Shoshin the worst]

No like literally we have a read and we're going to see how well the trajectory of Taly's iso backs up or conflicts with our position. you just admitted you're being intentionally close minded about reading our slot and reconsidering your read on our scumread in 180 so I'm not sure why I would bother casing him out for you while you're raging anyway?

want to talk about any other slots? or

pedit: absolutely not correct. what posturing do you think was scum indicative?

[Shoshin the worst]

Okay you're not pressuring out slot. You're pushing it for a lynch. Saying we're scum for a progressive hydra dynamic is scum motivated at worst & close-mindedness at best. so we're not really able to react to that pressure any way regardless of alignment I don't think.

Engaging with us on slots is a much better idea. I did just explain why talking about Taly is a bad idea if he IS scum so I'm not sure where to go next. I guess we can leave each other's personal space for 24 hours or something?

[Shoshin the worst]

In that case, I don't understand why you're pushing us entirely. Sorry.

I need to take a break from the thread (running late for work) -- I'll catch you later?

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: u r a person 2

[Shoshin the worst]

Hey Gamma, nice to play with you again. Any thoughts on U2's alignment?

[Shoshin the worst]

I've also noticed pintu promising a catch up, and I've been watching to see if he was going to follow through. I guess it's been long enough to plop a vote there.

VOTE: Pintu

Hey you!

What do you think of pintu's post so far? I'd be interested to hear. I had a conversation with the voice in my head about it earlier.

[Shoshin the worst]

Varsoon posted 2 links, one to Starcraft 1, where you encouraged everyone multiple times to “stretch their mind” and the second, to TAZ, where you didn’t do that even once.

That's a bad use of meta. There's nothing inherently scummy about that phrase. It just means "break out the box you're in," or "challenge your way of thinking," which are phrases I've definitely used before as town (e.g. in Laybrinth when discussing your reads).

For some background, I say "stretch your mind" quite often in my yoga teaching to shift how people relate to their mind/body during a practice. It's just a part of how I speak in real life contexts. I'd never thought to use it in the context of mafia until Starcraft 1 because I don't usually use the phrase in an intellectual context.

I was very happy with how it applied in Starcraft 1 and I couldn't even contain my excitement when Varsoon picked the phrase up. Yes, it's such a great phrase that even Varsoon (who doesn't seem to like me much) used the phrase himself in Starcraft 1, as TOWN. Point being, it has nothing to do with alignment. It's just a phrase with a useful meaning in the context of a mafia game. I intend to use it a lot more.

-the worst

Hol up
Why you signing as your hydra mate Shoshin?
The only time I’ve considered THAT trick was as scum in a hydra with NM, and while part of the plan there was just to be silly, there was also intent to confuse posting times with it. So there’s tangible scum advantage to signing as the wrong head.
-Emerald Star

Gamma what do you think we gain as scum here by maliciously signing posts incorrectly when they're really obviously incorrectly singed?

We've done it twice so far. I think. After explaining with no ambiguity that we weren't interested in signing.

I'm really interested to see why you think there's scum intent, and what makes you think we're doing it as a scum tactic.

[Shoshin the worst]

tfw gamma thought a duck was a yoga teacher

[Shoshin the worst]

Since this never got a good point to be brought up, I am townreading Alchemist rn. His solving looks genuine and he’s quite present. Matches my concept of town!Alchemist over scum!Alchemist.
-Gamma Quadrant
PEdit: I’m assuming that’s Shoshin asking me that since I’ve played with tw a lot recently. Idk about U2, I’ll figure it out and post it in a full readlist later most likely.
Also, if tw and U2 form a hydra it should be called Detroit Become Human.

I was wondering why you hadn’t mentioned me yet. It was getting weird.

Alchemist, as someone who has no experience whatsoever in playing with you: how would you be reading yourself, if you were another slot in this game? (Sorry for the annoying question. I'm going somewhere with this I promise.)

[Shoshin the worst]

Hey, I forgot this existed. I'm going to catch up now. Just skimmed this page and saw the votecount: UNVOTE: shoshin the worst , let's see what happened there.

By the way Shoshin and duck, could you sign your posts please? I don't know Shoshin and I think I can somewhat read the aussie

Did you have any thoughts about this post, in particular?

[Shoshin the worst]

Spoiler: Replying to the presumably Nancy head

Yeah, Nancy... I was referring to Undertale as a towngame you took part in.

I'm not raging, Shoshin--I'm applying pressure to your slot and I don't appreciate your multiple attempts to rewrite my push on you as anything but.

I'd love to talk about Taly, but you've decided to dodge that subject entirely.
So, nah, I don't wanna talk about anyone else.
I want you lynched.

Are you townreading Taly then? Because unless you think they’re wrong, I think you shouldn’t disregard this.

'

So you think Varsoon should drop his scumread push on STW just because he doesn't feel as strongly on another scumread player?

@STW

Wrt the underlined, when have I seen town!you? I only remember playing with scum!you in Labrynth. If you’re possibly referring to Undertale, then I probably don’t remember. Sorry.

I spent an entire post constructing my thoughts so far in the game and townreading STW.... and you only comment about me mentioning you in the games I've played?

...

Mephistophanes is an iffy read at the moment... Ari has contributed almost little to nothing of a unique thought, and I thought Nancy would do more than "just misuderstand" STW's hydra "not gonna sign" thing

Almost Chara obvtowned in 191

Like I can't see how scum would group such a specific area of people in a lynch pool, and proceed to give an honest positive read to the rest of the playerlist with the amount of chaos and town communication barriers present in the game thus far. (A 1v1, an L-1'd wagon that spawned from RVS initially, etc.)

By the way, can you explain your lynch pool Almost?

What part of our not actually voting them, did you miss?

So you've been posting in this game all this time and haven't conjured a strong scumread or townread, or are even pushing to acquire one?

The fact that you spent multiple posts debating with STW and disagreeing with Ari on how to handle their "not signing" thing while you don't place or vote or do anything else doesn't ring to me as town-motivated.

Do you have reads aside from Vars and STW?

also for everyone who disagrees with me on STW, give me a SIMPLE bullet-pointed list on the reasons their posting is scum-motivated

*optional challenge because y not?*
convince me how Mephisto isn't scum

We’re not. And why are we scum here? Based on?

I don’t like this post. You have no basis to sr us and you formulating this like this is somehow obvious to anyone other than lobotomised individuals, is really scummy af.

Yeah, I do have a REASON to suspect you/ari as scum. For the amount of posting both of you have done, there's very little content.

You keep putting up the defense of "you're being really scummy" and "why scumread us" but you're not actually entertaining why, aside from painting my posts toward you as pro-scum.

Hell, it took a LITTLE post of me pushing for responses on your slot, and your next posts are to disregard any content I've had with multiple people in the game, and minimize any thought I have over you.

The fact that you don't put up a vote and just continue to 'mildly entertain' my wagon in 270, doesn't read as genuine.

And if you're going to make the bullshit argument that I'm posturing, then why not evaluate the TvT between STW and Vars that I concluded from my own reads? You're making multiple accusations without really looking anything deeper than a centimeter into my posts.

~

Spoiler: Replying to the presumably Ari head

All caught up. Time to get us shot tonight.

Preliminary lynch pool (in no particular order): Shoshin the worst, Mewtaph, u r a person 2, pinturucchio, nicorobin, Kokichi Oma

Everyone else is on the positive side of null to some degree.

Disclaimer: I have not discussed any reads/reasoning with Chara yet. Thi8s preliminary list is subject to change when we do get to discuss stuff in the PT. After all, it's D1 and Chara is the one with the gift of tone reading alignments.

~The guy watching TV, playing Mafia, following a soccer game and eating all at the same time.

SEE now this is what I'm here for!
And while this is an easy throwaway post for scum, coming in when it did seems towny.

I actually made a reason behind why I thought Almost was town by this point... but you make the whole statement of "it could be scum, but it's appearing towny" isn't a concrete read...

taly is the kind of player capable of writing in a narrative driven fashion which means if we alert him to what were looking at/for too early, we'll lose what momentum we do have.
~ the worst & Shoshin

I'm flattered you guys think I'm this good as scum... but I think you guys underestimate my perceptiveness as town.

But this reinforces my point above. You both are using meta-logic to explain an early read on me, on how I make consistent narratives as scum.

Yet the only focal point I've made are two stances that I gathered through a 1v1 between you and Varsoon, which I townread both of you on. There's no motivation or means I could get towncred by posturing myself around your potential lynch if nobody is even entertaining my train of thought.

Two interessting points.
One is that I don't think you are outside your scungame yet, so I'll be keeping you in mind as the game progresses.
Second is the TvT read of S&W and Var. Can you explain the last line of this quote to me please?

I'm saying, the only major even I've responded to in this game so far, is STW/Vars when they were 1v1ing, and I concluded they were both town off my own reasons.

And what are you talking about Ari? You've never played with me as scum to my memory.

And also, why is "Taly's not outside of his scumgame" a reason to not try and view town-motivation in my posts?

Mephistophanes is an iffy read at the moment... Ari has contributed almost little to nothing of a unique thought, and I thought Nancy would do more than "just misuderstand" STW's hydra "not gonna sign" thing

I've had unique thoughts!!! </3

Where are they?

also for everyone who disagrees with me on STW, give me a SIMPLE bullet-pointed list on the reasons their posting is scum-motivated

*optional challenge because y not?*
convince me how Mephisto isn't scum

Because our Role PM was green
Nice appreviation btw! Mephisto sounds awesome =D

<3 Please explain why you and Nancy are confident I'm going to flip red, and if I'm making a wrong conclusion about your read, give me a reason as to why I am.

I forgot how much I love Taly-posting.
It's been too looong.

I don't know what to make of Mephisto. They kept coming up with excuses/outs for STW to take, which rang a bit awkward to me.

Well you keep being ridiculous. I'm just trying to be a reasonable party in all of this!

Reasonable... and ineffective.

...I really want STW to jump into the thread and explain their read on me AND reply to my spoiler to them, because at the moment, I can't find a town-motivated reason for anyone else to push a scumread on me UNLESS they actually give THEIR OWN opinion.

Parsing your spoilered post then discussing then getting back to you is going to take time taly. Just keep doing what you're doing and we will get back to you.

[Shoshin the worst]

Prodge

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

Would this help you contribute?

Lol...

[Shoshin the worst]

Since this never got a good point to be brought up, I am townreading Alchemist rn. His solving looks genuine and he’s quite present. Matches my concept of town!Alchemist over scum!Alchemist.
-Gamma Quadrant
PEdit: I’m assuming that’s Shoshin asking me that since I’ve played with tw a lot recently. Idk about U2, I’ll figure it out and post it in a full readlist later most likely.
Also, if tw and U2 form a hydra it should be called Detroit Become Human.

I was wondering why you hadn’t mentioned me yet. It was getting weird.

Alchemist, as someone who has no experience whatsoever in playing with you: how would you be reading yourself, if you were another slot in this game? (Sorry for the annoying question. I'm going somewhere with this I promise.)

Town.

Could you throw me a couple of things which you think are unlikely to come from scum!you this game so we can tighten up our read?

[Shoshin the worst]

Since this never got a good point to be brought up, I am townreading Alchemist rn. His solving looks genuine and he’s quite present. Matches my concept of town!Alchemist over scum!Alchemist.
-Gamma Quadrant
PEdit: I’m assuming that’s Shoshin asking me that since I’ve played with tw a lot recently. Idk about U2, I’ll figure it out and post it in a full readlist later most likely.
Also, if tw and U2 form a hydra it should be called Detroit Become Human.

I was wondering why you hadn’t mentioned me yet. It was getting weird.

Alchemist, as someone who has no experience whatsoever in playing with you: how would you be reading yourself, if you were another slot in this game? (Sorry for the annoying question. I'm going somewhere with this I promise.)

Town.

Could you throw me a couple of things which you think are unlikely to come from scum!you this game so we can tighten up our read?

Scum me these days gets nervous and avoids posting, especially if someone like Gamma or RC who I know can read me well is present. As it’s been said to me before there’s a certain thoughtfulness in my Town posting that my scumgame lacks. My Townread on Ari is a good example of that.

Nice, we had an almost identical conversation about that post. At first we weren't entirely sure how to parse it (the reasoning was a bit abstract compared to the more commonplace meta townclears) but the more we spoke about it the more we started to think there's probably no reason to make that post at all, as scum. The timing was also nice.

One of our heads has a habit of tunnelling experienced players who haven't played for a while but you still came out as "probably town".

[Shoshin the worst]

@URAP2 it is alarming me that you're reading slots by whether or not they look scummy at face value, rather than the kind of sorting I'm used to enjoying from you. wrt newbie 1905/07 you made a major conscious effort to get inside people's heads which I feel like you're a step or two withdrawn from here. That case on Mephisto this page boils down to "they've got good optics so they're probably town but I might be wrong" -- this presents more like a mislynch mindset than a sorting mindset. :<

For what it's worth, I feel Nancy and Ari are fairly obviously town. In addition to the optics of taking different sides on arguments etc., don't forget that they've been so actively engaged in the thread and to me, at least, nothing they've done feels pre-planned. I know this dips into meta territory but I don't think either of them has the scumrange to float through the thread this smoothly. And I don't think what they've done is pre-planned. I think while I was reading your case I was waiting for something more decisive, something with meaning.

Hold on a tick.

[Shoshin the worst]

Only the thoughts I gave you. Looking at it further,

The last two lines are funny in the context of the thread. I wouldn't put it past a scum to make that comment pretending not to have caught up as a troll

I have no idea what is record is of reading you, so I can't really evaluate that claim or his motivation for asking you to sign.

he's not playing any other games so I'm willing to believe he's disengaged, although his rvs post did seem excited to play (and why not?)

Are you seeing something here? because I'm having trouble getting much of consequence.

With respect to the bolded/pink this was a strange conclusion to jump to. You've seen pintu's scumgame. He's pretty capable of pocketing the duck head of this hydra like, without even meaning to. He's also pretty smooth as scum.

Do you really think there's a decent chance that scum!pintu has sneakily read the thread, sat there and thought about it, and decided to irritate and exposed slot including the duck who he's good at pocketing by making this post, rather than just going in for a softpocket?

Given his scumstyle and the smooth way he presents himself, do you think it would occur to scum!pintu AT ALL to make this post? I feel like its potentially not outside his scumrange, but it'd be a fairly strange evolution of his scumrange.

(for the record I know I'm not equipped to convincingly towncase pintu yet - but I think the missing level of reasoning from you here might be scum indicative).

[Shoshin the worst]

@STW

@Taly, we will discuss this before giving a proper response but we've gotten the ball rolling. Can I just ask, what is your intention with this post? On first impression I feel like you are pleading with us to nullread you/treat your earlier posting as NAI - is that a fair representation? If not a quick glimpse into your brain would help a great deal.

[Shoshin the worst]

also for everyone who disagrees with me on STW, give me a SIMPLE bullet-pointed list on the reasons their posting is scum-motivated

*optional challenge because y not?*
convince me how Mephisto isn't scum

Mephisto may be a demon but they are town.
- Ari's unrestrained defence of our hydra dynamic is town motivated & I fail to see a scum motivation in it.
- he's the more frozen head as scum by some margin and he's been the one reacting to posts in real-time
- Nancy has reads and has reacted to certain things in the thread (e.g. us vs. Varsoon!) which I don't think she'd be able to easily weigh in on as scum.
- I do not think Nancy antagonises us by reading us incorrectly so soon after 6p in Starcraft Mafia.

There's a tonne of tiny reasons to complement this but overall, I'm having a really hard time seeing scum motivation in that slot's actions at all. The fact they continuously townpost adds to this.

[Shoshin the worst]

I'm also not really sure why you scumread/dont townread Alchemist, and I'm not sure why you're voteparking Kokichi given the more active slots here don't feel sorted yet. If it comes close to deadline I think Kokichi is an excellent contender for a policy lynch, but we have time to do more spicy stuff.

[Shoshin the worst]

Do you really think there's a decent chance that scum!pintu has sneakily read the thread, sat there and thought about it, and decided to irritate and exposed slot including the duck who he's good at pocketing by making this post, rather than just going in for a softpocket?

Given his scumstyle and the smooth way he presents himself, do you think it would occur to scum!pintu AT ALL to make this post? I feel like its potentially not outside his scumrange, but it'd be a fairly strange evolution of his scumrange.

Okay, good. I thought I had missed something obvious. With respect, I think you're off on this one, mate.

So, I DO think scum!pintu likely tries to pocket town!tw this game, but I don't think this post precludes it. Pintu the person is a smart guy with a sense of humor and a bit of flair so I think it is possible that he would find this sort of light trolling amusing, regardless of alignment, but especially as scum.

Further, what about this post has stopped scum!pintu from being able to pocket you? You don't seem to be scum reading pintu, so I'm not sure why this would be a concern of his. I mean, he unvotes you in the same post.

Lastly, he was posting a "im here will catchup" post that he didn't end up keeping. If this is scum!pintu, and he wasn't intending to catch up last night, then the second half of the post might have been his attempt to send town back into a fruitless discussion for a hot minute while he wastes time.

Whatcha think?

Definitely doesn't preclude it but I still don't see why you just assume that post comes from scum before it comes from town. There ie indeed a great bit catchup cooling off ITT which I don't think you've addressed yet.

I agree pintu isn't locktown from that post but this feels like you're trying to fit the post around pintu being scum, rather than trying to parse the post a few levels down and glean his alignment from it.

I'm not saying you're guaranteed to be wrong, I'm just finding the mindset behind achieving that read concerning.

[Shoshin the worst]

Hold on if you don't think it's outside his townrange and it wasn't scum indicative and he was promising to catch up, why ever vote him over say Nico or Kokichi?why are you still voting him now he's caught up if you were null on that post?

[Shoshin the worst]

Which head is the worst in love with?

[Shoshin the worst]

Which head is the worst in love with?

That would be Pin. He send his regards.

-Turicchio

the worst sends his regards right back.

[Shoshin the worst]

TW, you asked me to analyze a very thin iso, and then a very thin post. I know that you and I both think there is value in taking close looks at otherwise inconsequential posts, and I gave you a full faith effort for precisely that reason. It's pretty sneaky to then turn around and read my response to that thought experiment as if I claimed those thoughts were engraved on stone slabs from god.

p.edit
I voted him over those others because I think I can read Pintu, so him moreso than those others I want to play.

I'm still voting him because I'm working through both my read of his big catchup and how I want to approach the slot.

Damn can a person get some space to play

I'm not asking for much time. I'll be on it this afternoon here. let it breathe

Having someone give an elaborate explanation of something pretty simple often gives more insight into mindset, than having them quickly summarise something quite a lot lengthier. But that's fine, we'll let you breathe for a bit. <3

[Shoshin the worst]

In response to your concerns, Varsoon:

1. the worst addressed the "stretch your mind" phrase in 150. The "no meta" post wasn't a defense to that.

2. the worst has a long history of holding back his reasoning on reads until much later in the game (e.g. in Labyrinth where he gave a read on D1, then refused to explain that read until somewhere around D4), and I often hold back reasoning as well for shorter stretches of time to test reactions. In Taly's case, we've discussed his behavior/meta extensively in our hydra PM and promise everything will be explained before end of D1.

3. We disagree with you about "mafia theory" when it comes to playing hydras. Given our previous experiences disagreeing when we were both town, you shouldn't scumread us for disagreement. We understand that you want to treat us as two separate players who are playing under one slot, but we're not playing as separate players so your desire to treat us as separate isn't possible. We're playing as one player. Given your lack of complaint about others who play as one player (most of the playerlist), we don't think that should be an issue.

4. The fact that we're playing our hydra in this way is actually a town tell for us because if we had received a scum PM we would have used every scummy tool at our disposal, including extensive hydra dissonance, cluttering the thread with disorganized back-and-forth arguments with each other that served no purpose other than drowning out meaningful posting, as well as other scummy tactics that hydra mechanics make possible. As you should know by now, neither of us would ever limit ourselves in this way as scum. Especially me (Shoshin). I don't have a hydra meta so limiting myself like this in my first game as a hydra isn't something I'd do as scum.

We hope you come to townread us because we don't think it's going to be helpful for you to push our lynch all game. At the very least, you should give us an opportunity to find and lynch the scum before declaring us scummy.

-the worst & Shoshin

[Shoshin the worst]

Varsoon, who are you townreading at this point?

[Shoshin the worst]

Game integrity is also compromised by shitty reads, so there’s that too,

Shitty reads are an inherent part of mafia. Players swapping at the table in long-form play is not a design element of the game.

Anyway.

I heard that the lurk-meta on Nico indicates scum there but I don't really know if that's true or not.

Wow where did you hear this?

[Shoshin the worst]

When confronted with this piece of meta that wasn't even all that damning, their defense was to handwave that the hydra has no meta, which isn't really an argument that I'd see either Shoshin or TW making, as town, when confronted this way.

Hold on. What makes you feel entitled to make this kind of statement? How much experience do you have with either or both of our heads' towngames? From a personality point of view this is exactly the kind of thing we would say...

You're finding reasons to keep tunnelling us Varsoon.

[Shoshin the worst]

Since then, they've largely done nothing of note and seem to have basically taken my pressure on them as an excuse to duck out for a 'cooling off' period where they can let suspicion on them subside/die entirely. Town doesn't do this, in my experience.
Their resistance re:signing isn't something that I townread.

You're literally inventing a motive to suit the fact we have not been around as much as we would like. We also declared we would be exiting the thread at the end of our conversation which would be completely ridiculous for scum to do if they intended to disappear and lurk out the pressure while an aggressive towny was tunnelling them.

The hydra signing thing should not be townread or scumread. It should not need to be discussed

[Shoshin the worst]

Vars I'm finding it really worrying that you have never stopped to reconsider this read and mystically see no town motivation whatsoever in out iso. This is the kind of read day one which I identify as absolutely fake, I'm just not sure which alignment it comes from with you.

We've definitely towntold a few times in our iso. You've found nothing AT ALL which you think is towny and you're 80% sure we're scum who's just decided to put our pants on our head after rolling SCM1 and play like messy newbscum?

I think you're ignoring the differences in our play and possibly overcompensating for how badly SCM1 went when you disappeared.

[Shoshin the worst]

For people who thought my triple-vote-hammer was fake; why did you stay silent about it?
I'm curious.

To see how others would react to it, *especially* STW. And then I forgot about it.

~Jimothy

Just for the record it was so obviously a joke after the Kokichi lolhammer in scm1 I didn't feel the need to react.

[Shoshin the worst]

We also declared we would be exiting the thread at the end of our conversation which would be completely ridiculous for scum to do if they intended to disappear and lurk out the pressure while an aggressive towny was tunnelling them.

WIFOM.

fam I'm asking him to think one level deeper than he is
wifom is a fair few layers deeper than this

[Shoshin the worst]

Just in case that dayvig is real, because Vars' play here is so tacky it could be either.

{STW}
{Nancy}
{Michael, Varsoon, Alchemist}
{AlmostChara, ProFlavor}
{Nico, Mewtaph, tibor and lumia, Kokichi}
{pinturicchio, URAP2}

Michael is probably teetering on dropping a tier from this conversation. But I'm not sure on this yet.

This game is horrible to sort. I think there's probably one scum in pint/urap2 but haven't got around to completely parsing it yet. I don't feel confident on Michael/Vars town but I do feel slightly more confident on Alch town. AC/PF wouldn't surprise me if they flipped scum I just think its marginally less likely than those below.

Too many people not doing much. Too much focus on a handful of slots.

[Shoshin the worst]

We've definitely towntold a few times in our iso. You've found nothing AT ALL which you think is towny and you're 80% sure we're scum who's just decided to put our pants on our head after rolling SCM1 and play like messy newbscum?

C'mon, if you're aware of said towntells, it's clearly in your capability to make them as scum, too. More WIFOM.

A couple of things.

Firstly have you ever posted something then just gone "oh fuck that was towny where did that come from"? That's like, the only time I towntell holistically. Sometimes when I have a thought then explain it ITT it evolves into something I didn't expect it to before I started typing. I think this is something probably f>t type people probably do instinctively I guess but it's not something I'm all thwt capable of doing as scum. (I can real-time as scum just fine but I'm a lot less interesting)

Secondly, I'm not making the point that we should be obvious town at all. In fact paranoia following scm1 is pretty healthy for most slots here (there are some I'm expecting to see a difference right away - Nancy is a classic example). But Varsoon could be PBPAing our entire iso and just saying "wolfy" next to every post. It's reaching the point where his lack of reconsideration and 3 dimensional thinking is making me regret townreading him originally.

Again, this is not WIFOM. Cut the buzzword spam and talk me through what you think is scum indicative. Buzzwords are GREAT for catching 10 year olds out on lying but their scope when you use them as "this sentence is _____" without elaboration is incredibly limited.

[Shoshin the worst]

Vars I'm finding it really worrying that you have never stopped to reconsider this read and mystically see no town motivation whatsoever in out iso. This is the kind of read day one which I identify as absolutely fake, I'm just not sure which alignment it comes from with you.

We've definitely towntold a few times in our iso. You've found nothing AT ALL which you think is towny and you're 80% sure we're scum who's just decided to put our pants on our head after rolling SCM1 and play like messy newbscum?

I think you're ignoring the differences in our play and possibly overcompensating for how badly SCM1 went when you disappeared.

could you sign this particular post, please?

because if it is real and you are town, I don't want to be hanged on the last read of Shoshin alone

Actually our hydra dynamic applies strongly to this. It's something we discussed for a while yesterday and concluded with "Varsoon looks like town but he looks like he wants to be townread. Not really sure where to go with this."

[Shoshin the worst]

@stw I thought you were done with this synchronized hydra nonsense but in retrospect you were just not signing and I was just inferring who was authoring the posts.

This is still scummy

also, I've given enough thought process that I think town!tw has a town read on me here at least 50% of the time

VOTE: shoshin the worst

Why did I pause my catchup.....

URAP2, point me in the direction of where to look for towniness in your ISO?

[Shoshin the worst]

my town leans right now are
STW -tone,play I think TW is trying to use his experience modding and playing with me to read me and that's why he's asking me for my thoughts about specific posts.

I found this in your ISO, your progression from this to your latest read there seems highly unnatural.
Did you just notice that you were inferring who was authoring them? You had nothing to say when their (lack of) signing was a talking point of the game?

~Detective Michael Scarn

I called them scummy for it early in this game when people were talking about it.

Then they stopped signing, but I could tell who was writing and I kind of felt that was their compromise, if that makes sense.

I don't understand why you think it is unnatural? I was expecting TW to want to see thought process in order to read me precisely because of our prior experience, so at the time that checked out. Now, having given him something to work with, Ithink it's likely that he finds a town read on me if he is town.

p.edit The other half of what? I'm not following, Mephisto

Why do you think town!tw townreads you here? Specifics please
Why do you think scum!tw doesn't townread you?

Also yeah we put the squeeze on slots we want to be able to read, that's exactly what we're doing

[Shoshin the worst]

Game integrity is also compromised by shitty reads, so there’s that too,

Shitty reads are an inherent part of mafia. Players swapping at the table in long-form play is not a design element of the game.

Anyway.

I heard that the lurk-meta on Nico indicates scum there but I don't really know if that's true or not.

Wow where did you hear this?

Btw ^^^^^

[Shoshin the worst]

Just gonna bring this into overdrive, actually, and go for the dunk.
Day Vig: Shoshin the Worst

Actually lack of flavour is likely fake

[Shoshin the worst]

I really like that recent post of URAP2's and Michael Scott's.
I don't know why STW is trying to present this game as hard to read/sort.

-V

Varsoon scm1: stop handing out townreads everywhere!!!!
Varsoon scm2: this game is easy to sort

It doesn't feel even slightly easy.

[Shoshin the worst]

Buzzwords are also great when they capture the essence of an argument, removing the need to explain it. I don't think the accusation I made needed much elaboration, but here's my rebuttal to your response anyway.

Sure, going "Oh that was Towny where did that come from?" Is a legitimate feeling to have, but doesn't pair off with "I towntold a bunch of times" -- the latter portrays an awareness to the tells. I don't trust that it's beyond your capability to know how town!you would behave and then behave in a similar fashion. Also, you're exaggerating how ridiculous it is to make those moves as scum - for example, I've already pointed out benefits to non-signing as scum.

~J

I'm not saying they're irrelevant, just that I can't engage with you at a deeper level because I don't understand what you think the implications are.

[Shoshin the worst]

my town leans right now are
STW -tone,play I think TW is trying to use his experience modding and playing with me to read me and that's why he's asking me for my thoughts about specific posts.

I found this in your ISO, your progression from this to your latest read there seems highly unnatural.
Did you just notice that you were inferring who was authoring them? You had nothing to say when their (lack of) signing was a talking point of the game?

~Detective Michael Scarn

I called them scummy for it early in this game when people were talking about it.

Then they stopped signing, but I could tell who was writing and I kind of felt that was their compromise, if that makes sense.

I don't understand why you think it is unnatural? I was expecting TW to want to see thought process in order to read me precisely because of our prior experience, so at the time that checked out. Now, having given him something to work with, Ithink it's likely that he finds a town read on me if he is town.

p.edit The other half of what? I'm not following, Mephisto

Why do you think town!tw townreads you here? Specifics please
Why do you think scum!tw doesn't townread you?

Also yeah we put the squeeze on slots we want to be able to read, that's exactly what we're doing

@urap2 this one would help more.
Selfmeta is hard to do as scum. It's also a playstyle type thing so I'm not gonna tunnel it. But you can't expect town!tw to loltownread you when we have respect for the calibre of your game and are seeing scumtells in your ISO which we've explained.

This is a very weird standard to hold someone too and it's utterly invalidated by the fact you can't back it up with anything concrete.

[Shoshin the worst]

based on Nico's meta, i'm townleaning her slot for now. slightly.
~Chara

Me too. 1%.
Varsoon's meta comment made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

[Shoshin the worst]

in this list I could confidently pocket Taly, Nancy and you. I could give it a go with pintu but I'm not sure it'd get me anywhere. I used to be able to pocket brass but posthiatus I'm not sure how he'd take it. So I think me scumreading you and not cutely backing down when you started posting is not remotely a scumtell.

I don't understand why you think there's no town motivation in our slot pushing/scumreading you. It's pretty simple. We scumread you.
The fact you can't engage with me about why we shouldn't scumread you or should townread you had me baffled.

Imagine in newbie 1907 for example if you and Nauci had fleshed out why you were misreading each other day two. think about how that kind of conversation might play out as an example.

sorry there's few ways to illustrate my point effectively here

[Shoshin the worst]

yeah, I'm willing to own that it's obvious which head is posting. still no point signing and I don't think my other head would be anything but equally as confused as I am.
secretly the capitalisation tell works on us sometimes too

[Shoshin the worst]

How are you reading our {URAP2, pintu} bracket Chara?

[Shoshin the worst]

meta,

We honestly can't apply BoP because we have no idea what people's alignments are. More that we think the subconscious mindset you've presented with some of your reads has been scum indicative.

We really don't believe in reading people via bop at all. Categorically.

I was looking for some stuff in this game which I should townread. Sorry if this felt like a breakthrough but I'm not sure how to see anything AI in the BoP argument. It might be slightly towny because of the disconnect maybe? But then scum who are caught for the wrong reason often react the same way. So I'm quite net null on it

[Shoshin the worst]

yeah, I'm willing to own that it's obvious which head is posting. still no point signing and I don't think my other head would be anything but equally as confused as I am.
secretly the capitalisation tell works on us sometimes too

it's more like it's obvious that only one of you is posting, often.
i just don't always know who that is, as i explained to Ari earlier. i'm guessing you're ducky?

on U2 and pintu, i've read them and have no strong feelings either way. sorry for the disappointing answer. i can give your thoughts on them another look if you want.
~Chara

Our reads are calibrated, even when it's just one of us posting. Sorry for going on about hydra dynamics. We should probably focus on something else.

[Shoshin the worst]

I don't understand why you think there's no town motivation in our slot pushing/scumreading you. It's pretty simple. We scumread you.
The fact you can't engage with me about why we shouldn't scumread you or should townread you had me baffled.

I believe that there can be a town motivation for scumreading me. I didn't say town!you town!reads me 100%

We can post game why I'm not into reading myself in the thread. It basically boils down to the wifom/not wifom discussion you're in the middle of and my having no interest in having those types of discussions

The problem we're having here is that you kicked off this rabbit hole discussion by voting us because you believe town!tw should be townreading you, plus the hydra dynamic which for the umpteenth time should not be deemed alignment indicative.

I'm trying to parse how you came to the conclusion that it's scum indicative for us to be scumreading you and pushing you just because the worst and you have history. I still do not understand your rationale here.

If you think TW should >rand be townreading you, we definitely need a better metric against which to measure your towntells, because it means what we are doing at the moment is on the wrong track.

This conversation is pretty important. If you do need to back out of it for holistic playstyle/meta reasons we understand but also please try to see that from our perspective, that leaves you joining out wagon late into its formation for almost exactly no reason...

[Shoshin the worst]

This is STW. There's no reason you can't talk to TW through this hydra and you're still tunnelling our signing thing.

[Shoshin the worst]

I could give it a go with pintu but I'm not sure it'd get me anywhere.

I'm pocketed without the need of you doing anything <3

@Varsoon, I have a towntell on the duck, on the same line of your "stretch your minds" of Shoshin. I've seen the duck using the "holistical reads" as town before and can't recall him doing it as scum.

By the way @duck, why scumreading us? Felt like it came out of nowhere.

-Pin

We originally had you as maybe-town for a couple of reasons. Your catchup felt rhetoric-heavy, and your conversation with URAP2 didn't feel natural (unsure on who's part, or whether both, yet). If you are town I'm sure we'll see it.

[Shoshin the worst]

What I mean by bop is not that the reads are right or wrong necessarily, just that you seem to be setting a high bar, or bop, asking me to analyse what is a fairly nai post and wanting me to come up with the conclusion you had in mind. It feels like a trap, and it especially feels that way considering all of our history includes me coming up with bad reasons for reads early

Whatever. How about talking to me about Taly?

I'm starting to get this feeling that he came into the thread, made that play to get town cred, and is now coasting on that

Taly could go either way - we need to have a proper conversation about him and mesh our thoughts before we're going to get anywhere productive.

How do you feel about AlmostChara, Alchemist & ProFlavor?

[Shoshin the worst]

I addresed in my catchup that you asked urap2 about me not to get a read on me, but rather sort urap2 better; was I right or wrong? Were you trying to sort me before I caught up?

Absolutely correct.

[Shoshin the worst]

@STW: Point out where I said anything about no more handing out townreads and I'll show you how the context is absolutely different. Stay sore.

You remember that from scm1.
Also we have a sentence of humour.

[Shoshin the worst]

This is STW. There's no reason you can't talk to TW through this hydra and you're still tunnelling our signing thing.

you're not one person, you just have aligned reads. you can't play as one person while referencing different heads like they're different as you have been.

there is a reason. the reason is it's confusing. listen to the other players in the game.
~Chara

I'm making the point that casually shading it as "scummy" is nonsense.
Anything directed at TW will be answered the same as if he were a solo slot.
Don't understand what's confusing about this.

[Shoshin the worst]

ill get to this thread later, my college classes started today

from skimming, id like to see STW actually respond to certain posts that they say they're formulating a response for

U2's making posts with more than 1-sentence explanations fort their thoughts

i keep forgettin proflavor, nicorobin, and kokichi are in this game.

if someone wants to make things easier to navigate through the threads content, ask me questions

...making sure people actually read this

Taly, we'll get back to you when we've had a chance to work through it. If we don't, a head who has enough time will engage with you on it. Please keep playing the game.

[Shoshin the worst]

@URAP2
We slightly townread ProFlavor but it's largely meta related and quite a weak townread. I think him joining us on you is slightly town indicative but only in a vacuum that it's the kind of thing profii does without paying attention to the gamestate (he followed his scumread onto another scumread). I'd also probably expect a little bit more from Flavour as scum here. He doesn't carry the energy he usually puts into scumming.

Chara is creeping up our list but it's also the first townread we are wrong on (outside of need to sort Varsoon). Its scumgame is pretty good and I think pocketing us at the time it questioned Varsoon on his read of us would be genuinely perfect timing. For the mort part though that slot is town, outside of paranoia.

Alchemist we're currently fairly strongly town on, I think we have spoken about this.

[Shoshin the worst]

I don't think this is real because I don't think Varsoon is game-throwingly bad.
This would be a great dayvig as scum, though a scum dayvig would be hilarious after the degree of normality promised in this setup.

[Shoshin the worst]

@URAP2 - where should we vote?

[Shoshin the worst]

TW didn't have much choice in keeping you around til endgame.
Shoshin didn't have an active killing role.

Stop being salty and spiteful. I doubt either of us wanted you alive in 4p until it became a necessity. And no, neither of us think you're awful at mafia.

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: Tibor and Lumia

[Shoshin the worst]

On a scale of 1-10, how involved is the worst today, really?

This is an essential question for my read of this slot.

-Brassbarosa

Fairly involved. TW is worried because his read on your slot keeps nulling when he doesn't feel like it should be null.
He's bad at reading Gamma but very good at reading you, historically.

[Shoshin the worst]

So you're not interested in engaging with him at all about why he's not townreading you?

[Shoshin the worst]

Actually that line of enquiry is completely inconsistent with recent scum!tw / town!brass. (This involves an alt, and the only time the pocketing townread on you was reversed was when a mislynch was needed on your slot in MyLo)

It's disturbing that you've just assumed we are scum because you don't like TW feeling like he can't read you confidently yet. Why are you scared of engaging with us about the read?

[Shoshin the worst]

@Taly, please catch up. Continue playing the game.

[Shoshin the worst]

Cool. Didn't see that in pedit.

[Shoshin the worst]

He was still hunting for scum that game. Aggressively, and he did a good job. He did not have TMI. You're suggesting we have TMI on your slot and are choosing to misrepresent it as a scumspect. Those are two extremely different situations. I'm not sure what your point is here unless you think we're a serial killer.

Also yum peanuts <3

[Shoshin the worst]

Actually that line of enquiry is completely inconsistent with recent scum!tw / town!brass. (This involves an alt, and the only time the pocketing townread on you was reversed was when a mislynch was needed on your slot in MyLo)

It's disturbing that you've just assumed we are scum because you don't like TW feeling like he can't read you confidently yet. Why are you scared of engaging with us about the read?

I'm not scared of engaging you, I just know that the worst uses that excuse on me when he rolls scum. There is no reason to engage when he's claiming he's "worried because I'm null" because that is a scum tell.

-Still me

Making an effort & being careful with reading you is a scumtell?
We won't be immediately alt-outing (even though it's not a secret) but do you remember the last time town-Brass and town-Shoshin played with scum-tw?

[Shoshin the worst]

Him voting you is fine considering we're waiting for the mod to post a votecount so Varsoon's farcical reaction test can end.

[Shoshin the worst]

So in SUPP2017 mafia the worst was effectively strong-armed into pretending to townread you because of your meta together. Shoshin and a few others heavily scumread your slot, and TW was put into a situation where they were forced to rescind their townread as "made too soon"--but only as a XyLo reconsideration of the read. That's it. That's how groupscum TW has most recently read your slot.

In Project Pinecone, he was a serial killer going up against the town and a 4 man scumteam. He didn't fake not being able to read you properly, because he didn't need to. It was his job to eliminate the scumteam just as much as it www the town's. Please appreciate that a self-aligned third party's approach to hunting the scumteam is far closer to a townie's, than to groupscum's.

The only read he manipulated there was lying about reconsidering obvscum dramonic on day one. There is no benefit in lying about nullreading you as a serial killer.

Tl;dr: if we were scum, we have no issues faking a read on your slot and no reason not to fake a read on your slot.

[Shoshin the worst]

If this goes through and Krazy doesn't confirm that the vigilante is aligned with the town, do not trust Varsoon based on his play so far.

[Shoshin the worst]

First, SUPP2017 actually finished?

Second, the vote and placing my slot really low doesn't seem like a null read to me. So, how is actively pushing a "null read" a town action.

Third, I don't think day vig can be aligned with scum under the site rules, but that one may just be completely wrong.

-Signature

Only under normal guidelines (which Krazy has proved he doesn't believe in ) - theme games are exempt from that.
All the same you're almost certainly not s/s with Varsoon I think.

I vote nullreads to get them to react so I can try to get a better read on them. If that's not a town action I'm probably scum irl.

And jumping on nullreads so they start towntelling or... not towntelling.... is a brilliant way to proceed if you don't have many reads. How would you propose handling nullreads if not pressuring them?

[Shoshin the worst]

Ultimately there's two factions. Scum and town. There isn't a null faction, so having nullreads instantly compromises the integrity of a readlist.

I think it's a quirk I'm developing these days.

[Shoshin the worst]

The human race is bad at reading Taly.

VOTE: Kokichi

Choo choo.

[Shoshin the worst]

That's frustrating, but I respect your process.

I guess TW is no longer null on you

I wish I had gotten such a strong feeling.

Help a person build their brass read. what did you see?

The reactionary confusion and bite was very very town!brass. good tone and I think the pace of it pushes on being outside brass' scumrange.

His immediate "ok lol well you're vigged and probably scum and here's why so I'm gonna lynch someone else" was towny as hell especially from him. I also don't think that comment wrt TW misreading him which is completely inconsistent with play history comes from scum who's scheming our mislynch.

[Shoshin the worst]

Very Pure Mindset

[Shoshin the worst]

#stillalive
#stilltown

[Shoshin the worst]

So going by Koki's role in the first iteration you probably need to use a flavour phrase itt
Go find it, it'll be in your role pm just after "your partners are". just start posting what comes after that.

[Shoshin the worst]

No, seriously, what the fuck
If my kill fails on you, why wouldn't you claim that shit immediately?

The fact you jumped to this even before checking if the mod had made a mistake is pretty revealing about how honest you're being, lol.

Play the game Varsoon.

[Shoshin the worst]

┐(´д｀)┌
I have no way of explaining that

[Shoshin the worst]

┐(´д｀)┌
I have no way of explaining that

[Shoshin the worst]

that's literally untrue that it's a soft. After last game I'm pretty confident Kokichi is just shitposting. He fakeclaims shit all the fucking time. Why are you assuming this is such an elaborate TPR soft and why do you need to be so antitown as to out it?

You also just slipped not vigilante FTR so at least we can stop pretending that fucking joke is a thing.

[Shoshin the worst]

AITP mindset works here too. Even if I suspected he was an innocent child, I should NEVER avoid pushing him simply on the basis that he's TPR slipped. All that does is alert the scumteam to the fact I suspect/know something about him.

Stop playing like an 8 year old. You're better than this.

[Shoshin the worst]

No.

If you can't tell why we voted Kokichi you're not reading out posts with an ounce of criticality.

[Shoshin the worst]

I'm dead null on him and hoping we can get some pressure there.

[Shoshin the worst]

You also are voting Kokichi, who claimed IC.
One for-sure IC in this game would be the TOWN Vigilante, as the mod has confirmed.
If you are so sure I'm not the town Vigilante, why the FUCK are you voting someone who soft-claimed it?

I very much doubt this post comes from someone who is actually the town vigilante. It's a joke you just assume Kokichi is an IC because of an obvious joke post and that I'm scum for applying pressure to him.

You entered the thread pretending to scumread us and where have you ended up? 28 pages of us aggressively trying to solve this game later? Still scumreading us and doing virtually nothing else.

If this is how badly your towngame has deteriorated since SCM1 where you had the bad meta reads on Shoshin town to rights day one, I'll be in fucking awe.

Just fucking do something else other than derptunnelling us and trying to horse shit reaction tests and setup-gaming. Regardless of your alignment this phase so far has been shit tier in a way I've never seen you be before.

[Shoshin the worst]

Asked if my shot was accepted as it was written and mod said yes.

And, STW?
The fact you can't explain not dying to the town vig
and the fact you can't explain your Taly read
Really
Really
REallly
tilts me

Guess what sunshine?

It tilts me that you're pretending to play this game while doing nothing but going "mner mner Shoshin is scum" and shitposting around mechanical nonsense.

Your dayvig fakeclaim is a joke. If you keep this fakeclaim up you'll be policy vigged which will be a relief.
Your only contribution other than arbitrarily deathtunnelling us is handing out half baked reads you obviously haven't put any work into, and talking about flavour spec you're alleging to be informed of.

You make this excruciating to play every time you're in the thread. I hope this post helps you see why.

[Shoshin the worst]

I'm not sweating at all. I'm annoyed at the absolute fucking joke of an approach you're taking to this game, and I'm trying to articulate why rather than resorting to the kind of vitriol you tend resort to.

Problem?

[Shoshin the worst]

I see why people blacklist you.

[Shoshin the worst]

Treating people as less than human is disgusting as either alignment. Get over yourself.

[Shoshin the worst]

Look I'm gonna stop engaging with you because you've stopped treating me like a person with my own opinions and reasons and thoughts. It's only out of respect for my hydra partner I'm not even considering replacing out here but you're pushing on being very toxic.

[Shoshin the worst]

Hm I must have misinterpreted things then.

[Shoshin the worst]

I think it's overwhelmingly telling that my blood is boiling (as a pacifist) and you're just remaining calm and taking the moral high ground while continuing to position around our lynch.

[Shoshin the worst]

You still haven't explained why you aren't dead or why you have a scumread on Taly.

-V

You still haven't explained why you're ignoring the 90% of the thread which isn't "things I can twist to make it look like STW is a wolf"

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: Varsoon
I pray this reds.

[Shoshin the worst]

To go on the record: we are not ascetic, bulletproof or anything else which interferes with a vigilante ability.

[Shoshin the worst]

Well, could be the people who can't stand me have stayed super far away from me and I've never heard about it.
I do pretty much only stick to one queue, so it'd be pretty easy to avoid me.
Even then, people who initially had a real sour opinion of me have turned it around.
If I am legitimately bothering you, I'm sorry.
I'm just very sure that I've caught you here as scum and that you're pushing toxicity as a reason not to engage with me instead of answering my questions or whatever.

-V

Apology noted--if this is a t/t I'll come back to you later on when I'm more calm.
It's just incredibly insulting that you're tunnelling us at the expense of common sense, have absolutely zero read trajectory and are just ignoring everything ITT which doesn't coincide with your gamestate read of "STW IS SCUM AND FUCK EVERYTHING ELSE". The reason I'm tearing my hair out here is because you're so hyperfocused you're starting to look like a joke. I personally am massively struggling to take you seriously and was considering just PoEing the game around you or suggesting a policy lynch.

For the hundred billionth time, we are not ready to explain our taly read yet. I'm sorry if this is genuinely so vexing to you that it's paralysing you from doing anything else. But we're not gonna compromise our chance to sort the slot.

[Shoshin the worst]

I literally ended last game beaten by both of you, y'know
And I swore, in that post game, that I wouldn't let someone make a personal appeal that'd make me doubt my own game-informed reads.
So I'm not gonna back down here.

Why were you voting Kokichi when you thought I wasn't the Vig?

-V

Because it didn't cross my mind for a second that Kokichi was crumbing vig rather than shitposting?
Why would you even be paying attention to this?
Why do you expect people to bend their brains into the same pretzel you do to interpret softs this way?

Are you something that's not air or ground, then? Like Space or some wild shit?
Not that I expect you'd claim ascetic or BP or 'Space' or anything of the like if you're scum.
I'm just trying to figure this out.

-V

I'm sorry I genuinely don't understand the question upfront. I'll see if I can work it out.

[Shoshin the worst]

Actually nvm
VOTE: Kokichi

Checking that flavour question rq

[Shoshin the worst]

We are a ground unit.

[Shoshin the worst]

Would you mind tiering your townreads Almost? Or talk to me about the ones you can't see yourself EVER voting for the foreseeable future?
I know this will be more annoying than I intend it to be but it is what it is. It's just a little tricky reading into "i have 11 slots as town, let's lynch in the other 4 (who are all lurkers". I don't hate your PoE tbh, I'm just curious to see where your brain is at.

[Shoshin the worst]

Sorry if my questuon's too Newb, but:
Does scum!Vars claim Vig in a setup where we know there's a town aligned vig who'd obviously just shoot him at night?

~Jimothy

No. He's probably town, I got annoyed earlier.

[Shoshin the worst]

tfw gamma thought a duck was a yoga teacher

So like why do you say this? I’d figured out it was Shoshin posting pretty quickly. Is this math class where I have to show my work as to how I figured out who was speaking?
-Emerald

Sorry. This was a trolly post, lol.

[Shoshin the worst]

Hey Gamma, can I ask you a question? Do you think that I should be town reading you this game?

hey it's the ducky's favourite question.

How're you going Mewtaph?

[Shoshin the worst]

meta,

We honestly can't apply BoP because we have no idea what people's alignments are. More that we think the subconscious mindset you've presented with some of your reads has been scum indicative.

We really don't believe in reading people via bop at all. Categorically.

I was looking for some stuff in this game which I should townread. Sorry if this felt like a breakthrough but I'm not sure how to see anything AI in the BoP argument. It might be slightly towny because of the disconnect maybe? But then scum who are caught for the wrong reason often react the same way. So I'm quite net null on it

Can you please explain BoP, thanks. And yes, I know it stands for burden of proficiency but I don’t know what that means?

Burden of proficiency.
Basically, the idea that "because Player X isn't proficient, they must be scum". For example, saying "because Nancy mislynched scum and had bad reads she must be scum". It's a nonsensical argument.

Here URAP2 is suggesting I'm BoPing him because I'm saying "because you didn't have the same read as us on a lurker post, you must be scum".

[Shoshin the worst]

ProFlavor's game is remarkably light.
They are scum reading one person for lurking, me for voting a lurker, and T&L because they always town read them early, as far as I can recall.

They also have a bunch of naked town reads. Currently trying to engage that slot, but I don't have any reason to town read them

I'm still reading almost chara as town. They had that lynch pool early and I could understand the worldview they were living in to have that pool. Since then they have not stood out much to me, which means nothing pinged me.

Alchemist, I am currently sheeping a town read on. He's on the list to dig into. I'm sure you can see that I've been slowly hopping from one slot to the next

Agree on AC and Alchemist21.

Your posting in here, kind of lowkey reminds me of Mewtaph in SC 1 for some reason.

This is a very towny take.
Urap2 is a lot more present than Mewtaph was tho tbf

[Shoshin the worst]

This is STW. There's no reason you can't talk to TW through this hydra and you're still tunnelling our signing thing.

you're not one person, you just have aligned reads. you can't play as one person while referencing different heads like they're different as you have been.

there is a reason. the reason is it's confusing. listen to the other players in the game.
~Chara

I'm making the point that casually shading it as "scummy" is nonsense.
Anything directed at TW will be answered the same as if he were a solo slot.
Don't understand what's confusing about this.

How is AC shading this as “scummy”?

All they’re doing is reiterating what everyone has been thinking the entire game, which is that your hydra dynamics are confusing af.

AC didn't shade it as scummy - we didn't use pronouns but we were referring to URAP2 shading it as scummy, not AC.

[Shoshin the worst]

You have reached the answering service of Shoshin the worst. Please leave your message, and one of our operatives will determine your alignment as soon as possible

because Nancy mislynched scum

Nancy, let's MISLYNCH scum!

~Jimothy

#goodposting
Scum are just trying to have a good time. Stupid townies trying to mislynch them.

[Shoshin the worst]

He was waiting to see if the vig on us resolved.
Don't panic, he's town.

[Shoshin the worst]

Game integrity is also compromised by shitty reads, so there’s that too,

Shitty reads are an inherent part of mafia. Players swapping at the table in long-form play is not a design element of the game.

Anyway.

I heard that the lurk-meta on Nico indicates scum there but I don't really know if that's true or not.

Wow where did you hear this?

I played a game with Nico where Nico insisted lurk meta was town indicative but then Nico lurked and flipped scum :@

To paraphrase someone talking about another slot once
When your meta is literally not posting as town, it's pretty easy to manipulate

[Shoshin the worst]

What are your reads, URAP2?
Care to share who you are PoE'ing through and why?
I've been just kinda glossing your recent posts, so if there's answers there, sorry.
Feed it to me

-V

lots out of game on my plate today. haven't read over yesterday yet. this is where im at right now. I'm also interested in taly as I continue doing a round of looking at my town reads.

1. Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) town
2. Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) ???
3. Mewtaph ???
4. u r a person 2 hey, that's me
5. AlmostChara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) town
6. Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) town
7. pinturucchio town
8. nicorobin ???
9. ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) ???
10. Kokichi Oma ???
11. Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) town
12. alchemist21 town
13. Taly town
14. Varsoon town

Your read list is like a lot of town reads and question marks on the lurkier slots

I did a similar read list and got similar results in my hydra PT

So when STW said this game is hard to read I kinda town read that - because for this reason, it kinda is

I’m in the same boat. Everyone is either Towny or null.

Big mood.

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: NicoRobin

[Shoshin the worst]

We're comfortable wagoning either of Kokichi and Nico honestly. Convince me on someone scummier than Nico?

[Shoshin the worst]

We're comfortable wagoning either of Kokichi and Nico honestly. Convince me on someone scummier than Nico?

Why were you voting Kokichi when you thought I wasn't the Vig?

-V

I don't think you ever answered or addressed this.

-V

I did.
I didn't make the connection you made wrt Kokichi's IC soft being a vig soft.

[Shoshin the worst]

Quack. So much shitposting.
Should we wait for nullslots to do something?

~ Shoshin

[Shoshin the worst]

Yes. You can take that vote as serious in that I haven't seen any other wagon was compelling enough for me to shift my vote. I don't buy how he's approaching the game state as genuine.

How so?

[Shoshin the worst]

AC is town and I think my deepwolf paranoia theory is fading.

[Shoshin the worst]

I think scum was on STW's wagon regardless of STW's alignment. He was L-1'd, and this is a large. Granted, I do have a townread on STW, but it's faded the past few pages, I still stick to them-town.

...why has it faded?

[Shoshin the worst]

it's cold

and lonely in the deeeeep daaarkkk niiiiiight

[Shoshin the worst]

Seriously the thread needs to focus on someone else. The amount of bias here is making it excruciating to read.

Posts like ProFlavor's last one SHOULD come >rand from scum because of how conspicuously weighted they are. Taly's magical read reversal on us because we took a break from pushing the thread momentum for a few pages and others stated they still didn't like us should come >rand from scum. But everyone is so full of it I'm not really sure how I'm meant to be reading them.

Most of the active players are town. somewhere in {pintu, ProFlavor, Taly} is as deep as the deepwolves go. If Varsoon's vig isn't proven eventually, powerlynch him.

I'm getting tired of not being treated like a human and there's a weird clique of players who are just positioning as scum for nonsensical reasons, without actually thinking through anything (more likely to come from scum!ProFlavor than scum!Varsoon rn imo). my WIM is through the floor so I'm probably gonna be more low energy and less obvtown than I was a few pages ago.

[Shoshin the worst]

But if townies who suspect us can please reason through it with us rather than drive by shading we'd appreciate it. Makes you all easier to sort :p

[Shoshin the worst]

Someone explain scum!Alchemist to me? This just feels like a forced wagon. I literally don't get it.

[Shoshin the worst]

I think it's just Mewtaph and Taly atm but it does not make any sense to me, either.

[Shoshin the worst]

:D so much opportunity to get pocketed!!

._. im gonna have to reread that playerlist movement night action stuff arent i?

not feeling the kokichi IC claim but i slight townvibe it anyway

VOTE: Almost Chara

RVS is bullshit but square up w me, both heads now

~ Taly

Taly's RVS post is what originally scumpinged me.
I don't think he's really done anything outside his scumrange (not anything particularly towny). Taly do you disagree? If I'm grossly misreading you here, help me see where I'm wrong. A lot your defence of yourself & probing of other slots has kind of skated around the centre; the way you do as scum (e.g. PYPX/Y).

> the pocketed comment & the thing wrt rereading playerlist movement just feels forced and stiff. I think there's a hesitation in Taly's tonality through the thread, so far, which I can't not notice.
> the comment about not feeling Kokichi's IC claim but townvibing it is absolutely bizarre. I can see this coming from someone who played SCM1 and liked the laissez-faire comedic entry to the thread but I literally can't see any reason to be townpinged by Kokichi lolclaiming IC and then lurking it out. This doesn't feel like critical reading so much as an agenda/TMI'd read and I think it's the kind of slip-up scum do make while still in RVS.
> RVS bullshit thing is incredibly forced (fwiw voting AC in rvs doesn't seem beneficial to me but I feel like I'm the only person onsite who enjoys RVS for content)

[Shoshin the worst]

Just gonna bring this into overdrive, actually, and go for the dunk.
Day Vig: Shoshin the Worst

Oh nice
brass mentioned this but I wanted to see for myself what the deal was.
First impression would be this is a reaction test, but I think I saw V For Vendetta saying he meant this.
Since stw is still alive I'll ask: how did you survive, stw?
-Gamma "the hipfire king" Emerald

i literally do not know, Varsoon & AC have been speculating about it but it's not interesting to me

[Shoshin the worst]

Yes. You can take that vote as serious in that I haven't seen any other wagon was compelling enough for me to shift my vote. I don't buy how he's approaching the game state as genuine.

Good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Are there any posts you want to have addressed in particular?

VOTE: Alchemist21

I want Alchemist to reply to 952

This post struck me as more pockety towards Mewtaph, actually. But yeah Mewtaph's reasoning is a trainwreck. I have no read on if it's t/s or s/s but I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of these two flips red.
I don't understand how you were meant to reply to 952. lol.

[Shoshin the worst]

Posts like ProFlavor's last one SHOULD come >rand from scum because of how conspicuously weighted they are

no idea what that means but I'm around for a bit so AMA if you want.

I am currently trying to asses Taly - in a game where loads of people went 'I cant scum read anyone' he had loads of different reads. not sure if this is AI... will come back later with a decision

~woof

no that's ok, keep doing your thing.

Quack. So much shitposting.
Should we wait for nullslots to do something?

~ Shoshin

I'm going to get myself in a tunnel but here is how I'm reading this:

There is a tunnel on STW and a large proportion of players are saying the gamestate is full of towny dudes - so there is no where for a counter wagon to form - therefore "should we wait for nullslots to do something" could equal "can we wait for the nullslots to do something scummy to take heat off me, as yet, there is no where for people to create a sensible wagon and I'm in a bit of a pickle"


FL said he will catch up soon so I'm just going to let that happen before I go as far as voting/diving down this tunnel, otherwise I would have already.

~ woof

^^^ basically, this post is an incredibly heavily biased reading (which i think you know) but i'm kinda not sure whether to take it down as confirmation bias at face value or see an EvIl AgEnDa in it
similar kinda thing to taly's comment about reversing his read on us, but i think his was slightly more scum indicative
basically the bias is just muddying my ability to improve my reads on people right now. i think i just need more content from your slot which isn't about me

[Shoshin the worst]

speaking of biased readings what do you all think the odds are that one of nico's scumbuddies was just like "hey vote stw so you're not replaced" :thinking:

[Shoshin the worst]

speaking of biased readings what do you all think the odds are that one of nico's scumbuddies was just like "hey vote stw so you're not replaced" :thinking:

I don't like that this sort of WIFOM was dropped earlier and you're reversing it here--can't remember who, but someone suggested that the pressure on you was shifted to Nico. I generally think that's more likely to be true than the other way around. Your suggestion pretty much is just that Nico is buddies with... who?

I'm very confused.

-V

I was shitposting.

speaking of biased readings what do you all think the odds are that one of nico's scumbuddies was just like "hey vote stw so you're not replaced" :thinking:

It’s as likely as any other scenario.

#goodposting

Is Nico the same person as Jeanne11? I think I saw that somewhere a long time ago but I’m not sure.

I believe so, yeah.

[Shoshin the worst]

Do you have much experience with her?

[Shoshin the worst]

Varsoon, candidly -- you did a very cool job of it while it lasted.

[Shoshin the worst]

I want to make sure they actually read it.

Don't play shit like this. That's intolerant and intolerable.
We read all of your posts. We talk about them before replying (and need to be in front of a PC generally for formatting reasons).

I'm going to go and read the rest of your post now but shit like this is not on.

[Shoshin the worst]

You only voice a thought towards me if it's 100% meta-based on something I've done before. You're not removing my play here from anything else, and you're not doing this with anyone else to my understanding.

I'm curious to know, on if you're trying to solve me genuinely, or if you're just withholding your responses about me for when you CAN actively case a lynch against me if I survive later in the game.

You've told me to "play the game" and "wait for your response" and yet you're just now acknowledging posts I've made where I haven't mentioned you.

I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this except I get the feeling you aren't enjoying our playstyle? It kinda feels like a beginning and a middle with no end. What do you actually make of all this?

You don't need to be positioned as a lategame lynch and doing that by gently poking you day one would be ridiculous. If we were scum actually gunning for your mislynch why would we alert you to it and force you to produce more alignment indicative content day one? This isn't the conclusion I don't think so talk to me more here.

Yes, you're misled. If you actually read me post in 193, you'd have known that ANY post I made in the game before 132 were reaction tests.

And yeah, I'm playing OVERTLY "scummy" right now. (Ugh, that word sucks so much.)

If "playing how I am as scum" gets people to have reads OTHER than town/null and AVOIDS a potential lurker mislynch on D1, then fuck... Mission accomplished.

Apathy defeated. (Or at least mine is.) 1v1s don't go for +10 pages. Weakens a scum-productive narrative.

If you're playing overly scummy what's your angle? Where were you going with the reaction tests & what did you glean? This is the kind of reasoning wolves use when they have a rocky start to day one so I can't afford to take that at face value. Let's go 3 levels deeper in this conversation.

The last two paragraphs don't make sense to me and I don't ?think? they're alignment indicative to I'm gonna focus on the more interesting parts of this...

Let's talk about "posturing/positioning" for a second.

How about the next time you quote me, you DIRECTLY respond to me? OK?

Lol.
This is the towniest thing in your post but I'm still not convinced it comes exclusively from town!you. Your emotional range is a lot broader as town. Your semantic/nitpicking as either alignment is strong. I'm struggling to see a lot here past semantics.

Given TW head has seen you as both powertown, powerwolf, and pocketed you as a scum - what makes you think you're entitled to a townread from us? Help us see it?

[Shoshin the worst]

NicoRobin(3) ~ Michael Scott(57), Shoshin the worst(153), u r a person 2(81)
u r a person 2(2) ~ ProFlavor(43), pinturicchio(42)
Shoshin the worst(2) ~ NicoRobin(6), Varsoon(143)
Alchemist21(2) ~ Mewtaph(5), Taly(61)
pinturicchio(1) ~ Tibor and Lumia(75)
Mewtaph(1) ~ Alchemist21(52)
Kokichi Oma(1) ~ Almost Chara(70)

This is an incredibly bad VC for town.

Michael/STW/UP2, tell me why Nico's a good lynch today.

URAP2 - Already prompted Pint/ProFlavor to talk about their vote here.

STW - vars, make town cohesive <3

Alchemist21 - Actually want Mew to explain his scumread on Alchemist, it's the only one they've had it seems? In like... 1000 posts?

Pint - A reason to townread T&L as I'm feeling less impressed each time I read Pint's ISO or latest posts.

Kokichi - AC, is this really a worthy lynch? Any active posters you don't townread?

This is valid tbh
I'll be interested to revisit this vca

we still have like half a week so I'm OK pressuring where I am. Still want to hear about scum!Alchemist because neither of us are seeing it.

Kokichi is likely the most valid lurker lynch because he's blatantly playing in bad faith. But I'm fine pressuring where we are and if NR eats the lynch I don't think I'll be sad.

[Shoshin the worst]

anyone have meta on Mew?

like reliable ones? not a 1 game half-assed "this is how someone is as that alignment"?

All I can contribute is that he's a pretty sharp, analytical player. Don't have reliable alignment tells on him.

[Shoshin the worst]

also STW try to avoid confbias with me. -_-*...

and if I keep hearing "taly's read reversal is scum-indicative of him omg", you're not going to get a rational response.

What do you think we're doing...?

[Shoshin the worst]

I mean rational, as in calm, where I don't get pissed off by the misrep you've painted me with in your recent posts.

Why don't you feel the need to empathise with us?
Why are you ridiculing our push on you? If your only answer is "bEcAuSe YoU'rE wRoNg!!!!" please try to meet us at a deeper level. Because we aren't half-assing this read...

[Shoshin the worst]

Acrually you haven't used the cat GIF towntell..... Guess you're probably scum.

[Shoshin the worst]

Michael/STW/UP2, tell me why Nico's a good lynch today.

Also, I'm still waiting for an answer on this. -_-*

I answered that. It's not a fair question. We're pressuring her because there are still several days on the clock.

If you want me to reply to things, quote them. I don't have the time or inclination to respond to everything in your ISO and I'm not going to engage with your massive walls of fluff.

You're not talking to me about the things I asked you to talk about. I'm having a hard time reading you but trending scum which is why I'm engaging with you here. I thought that was incredibly obvious and don't appreciate the way you're trying to misrepresent my motive.

[Shoshin the worst]

I'm not replying to your posts until you read my spoiler wall that was 800 posts ago, AND the recent wall I DIDN'T spoil.

You know, the one you completely disregarded to reply to just now?

Again, read every single word of these posts.
You're once again just ridiculing our push on you by saying...we haven't read enough of your content to have a read on you? Dude we've read every single character. Stop having a tantrum and show us why we should be townreading you or let's make some decent content.

pedit: I'll go read everything. one moment.

[Shoshin the worst]

Given TW head has seen you as both powertown, powerwolf, and pocketed you as a scum - what makes you think you're entitled to a townread from us? Help us see it?

Given TW head HAS seen me in these positions, makes me REALLY wonder why you're posting before talking to him.

This is candidly completely wrong.
Don't pivot this question man, engage with us.

[Shoshin the worst]

You don't need to be positioned as a lategame lynch and doing that by gently poking you day one would be ridiculous. If we were scum actually gunning for your mislynch why would we alert you to it and force you to produce more alignment indicative content day one? This isn't the conclusion I don't think so talk to me more here.

Well, you HAVE brushed off some points I've made on you, and you're looking very critically into every post I make with the WIFOM of "this could be Taly as ANY alignment!!!!"

If you wanted me to get frustrated, for us to 1v1, and for you to get material to ACTUALLY lynch me later then here you have it.

I don't know what you're achieving here as town, either, that's why my read has partially faded.

Yes ok that's fine..... but why should we be townreading you? I asked that question for a reason....

[Shoshin the worst]

Taly why do you take exception with a Nico lynch?

[Shoshin the worst]

Taly why do you take exception with a Nico lynch?

What are you meaning here?

Timing feels like you're working against her lynch. I'm just wondering why.

[Shoshin the worst]

What are you needing confirmation or clarity on in my posts?

If it's such a problem to sort me, then ASK me questions. :/

Why should I try to convince you I'm town? I know I'm town and I'm confident that if you're SO focused on meta-reading me, it will be evident sooner or later.

We aren't meta reading you more than content reading you? I don't know where this came from. We're just proceeding with appropriate levels of caution given your scumrange.

If you think we're on the wrong track, point us in the right direction. Because atm you're just evading valuable conversations while yelling at us to read posts which we've already read and didn't townread.

So, if we are wrong, I am trusting you to show is why here. Please.

[Shoshin the worst]

Because I don't think a lurker lynch is productive and I don't have any meta to think Nico or even Kokichi to be anything but null?

Why not? And why did you feel the need to quiz us on why we were voting her? Do you think it's unjustified that she's getting wagoned?

[Shoshin the worst]

What do you make of Varsoon's stance that lurker Nico is scum Nico?

[Shoshin the worst]

Let's talk about Nico for now. I'm busy irl and won't be able to write longer posts til I'm home.

[Shoshin the worst]

Game integrity is also compromised by shitty reads, so there’s that too,

Shitty reads are an inherent part of mafia. Players swapping at the table in long-form play is not a design element of the game.

Anyway.

I heard that the lurk-meta on Nico indicates scum there but I don't really know if that's true or not.

For what it's worth.

Why do you feel the need to specifically ask for justification from people pressurevoting that slot? It's not a vanity wagon. It's a valid pressure wagon on a lurker.

Why do you think there's scum on it?

Why did you miss Varsoon's stance that lurker Nico is scum Nico if you were trying to sort her?

[Shoshin the worst]

because i dont have time to filter through pages and fully comprehend or read every bit of content in them?

Oh? I'm expected to read every single word of your posts and then shaded when I do, but you're questioning people on pressuring Nico yet haven't been actively trying to sort her? That's not a great look.

Go back to the wagon, where did scum enter?

[Shoshin the worst]

Show me a bit more about why you scumread URAP2? Talk to me about why you're voting pintu if you scumread URAP2 and are anti the Nico wagon?
Also waiting to hear why you think lynching lurker-Nico is a bad idea here.

[Shoshin the worst]

I misread your comment about URAP2/pint interactions so don't worry about the URAP2 thing.
Given we have quite a lot of players who are active and producing content (and a lot who appear to be town!) lynching a lurker d1 doesn't feel like a bad idea in practice. It removes an unreadable slot from the game, keeps the NK pool open. I don't think any of the votes on Nico so far have been unfair/scum indicative and I don't think you really addressed that point.

Shading the wagon to soft-defend her is a very easy position for scum to take, and pointing at site "lynching lurkers is bad!!" meta to back it up is a pretty cheap out, and I don't think it comes from a place of trying to actually stay focused on reading slots and solving this game. :/

I'm not surprised you feel the last two pages have been wasted. It doesn't feel like we actually engaged on anything, and I've come out of it feeling pretty brushed aside.

[Shoshin the worst]

Anyway my stance is clear. You can have your breathing room but if it bothers you we aren't townreading you, talk to us.

[Shoshin the worst]

Mewtaph what about that makes you think Alchemist is aligned with the mafia?
1121 is incredibly unfocused

[Shoshin the worst]

Not sure about unfocused, but it doesn't appear to be sound reasoning. I don't see any disconnect between 204 and 297

I agree with this and can't actually see what makes him reach the conclusion that Alch is scum.

VOTE: Mewtaph

we can still powerlynch Nico before EOD.

[Shoshin the worst]

oh lol forgot mephisto was in this game again

...ive played with jeanne11... in 2015.

and ive played with nico one game this past year... but it doesnt count since she was mislynched early-game for doing the bare minimum to avoid being replaced

If Nico is town here, that looks good for Taly and vice-versa.

So even if Nico is scum - Taly has been hard against the Nico wagon because the flip doesn’t give us info

I’ve seen scum get lynched and people be against the wagon and sometimes the defender flips scum, sometimes town - so I’m making a mental note that talys issue with the wagon is specifically info gained, rather than “I don’t want to lynch Nico because i find ___ element of her play towny”

Idk what that means it just stood out

~ woof

This is a good take. You don't have any thoughts about whether Taly looks s/s with Nico, or like town flailing to defend a lurker wagon?

[Shoshin the worst]

if Kokichi just genuinely doesn't follow through on catching up he's obviously a fierce contender. I see nothing to townread from either of them but his catchup promise over just a naked vote is closer to playing in good faith than Nico's lurking/naked vote/complaining thing.

[Shoshin the worst]

Sup

[Shoshin the worst]

STW, you never answered my question -_-

Why are you so content on lynching Nico if your vote there is pressure? Do you strongly scumread them?

Because we have a PoE, lynching her is no loss to the gamestate and she's prodging to remain in the game. Even if it greens its bad faith play which only damages gamestate. We lose nothing by lynching her and flip and unreadable slot who we do not townread.

[Shoshin the worst]

honestly, anyone who keeps "OKing" a Nico wagon or even a Kokichi wagon at this point is just saying "im not going to do anything else but push for a PL until we get content out of this one player"

If you think this is a fair representation of our play this game you're the one who isn't reading the thread.. xD

[Shoshin the worst]

i feel like im the ONLY person shouting "NO" in this game and thats a huge-ass red flag.

Yeah, it's alarming that you're white knighting a lynch on a bad faithy lurker slot in a game with a firm PoE. I don't know what you expect to catch scum here?

[Shoshin the worst]

I still think it's STW.
:/

-V

+ 2 others
Find the two others I dare you

You are so aggressively not playing this it's insulting that you're alleging to be confirmable town. This kind of play is damaging to site culture.

[Shoshin the worst]

if Kokichi just genuinely doesn't follow through on catching up he's obviously a fierce contender. I see nothing to townread from either of them but his catchup promise over just a naked vote is closer to playing in good faith than Nico's lurking/naked vote/complaining thing.

Hi The Worst

Sup

it others me that i call out TWs blatant pocketing on the last page and whoosh gone i have to say

Wait sorry what pocketing? The duck head pockets as both alignments and has no problems talking about pocketing. I'm not sure what you consider pocketing here.

[Shoshin the worst]

(also I have a life outside of mafia + other ongoing games so...... :/)

[Shoshin the worst]

I would say at this point if we were going to policy lynch a lurk slot why Nico over Koki?

Those of you that played Overkill 2 may recall FL admitting either in PT or post game (can’t fully remember) he purposely acted as disengaged to move along to the later stages of the game

Arguably - that’s more Koki, as opposed to Nico simply not being here

So I’ll be keeping an eye on those pushing Nico


I’m gonna go read up on some slots that I haven’t really noticed up to now

if Kokichi just genuinely doesn't follow through on catching up he's obviously a fierce contender. I see nothing to townread from either of them but his catchup promise over just a naked vote is closer to playing in good faith than Nico's lurking/naked vote/complaining thing.

Lurking is more town indicative for Kokochi than it is for Nico and yeah, good point about the naked vote thing. I recall in Labrynth, Nico made it a point of saying that she required flips first, to have a read/vote.

Good post.

[Shoshin the worst]

No pressure pintu. Heal up.

[Shoshin the worst]

I still think it's STW.
:/

-V

+ 2 others
Find the two others I dare you

You are so aggressively not playing this it's insulting that you're alleging to be confirmable town. This kind of play is damaging to site culture.

I can find em after you're in the dirt.
Day's dragged on long enough.
This sort of tactic won't work on me.

You can try to render this as an out-of-game thread by making it about site culture, but that's also not going to work on me.

-V

We're still town so the longer you spend arrogantly deathtunnelling us for no reason, the more the gamestate suffers.

[Shoshin the worst]

Didn't you pull the same thing in the first Starcraft?
"Well yeah but you gotta find my teammates anyway so waste time doing that lol"

K thx but no

-V

....no?
Possibly my other head did?
I don't remember either heads doing that off the top of my head

[Shoshin the worst]

As town chara always says that my posting will eventually reveal my alignment. No way chara does this vote as town.

Actually gonna WK Chara for a sec.
Do you not think you deserve a pressure wagon here?

[Shoshin the worst]

Regardless I feel like Chara has 50 times the clout you do in this list... If you think it's scum and wanna do something about it let's see whatcha got

[Shoshin the worst]

Didn't you pull the same thing in the first Starcraft?
"Well yeah but you gotta find my teammates anyway so waste time doing that lol"

K thx but no

-V

....no?
Possibly my other head did?
I don't remember either heads doing that off the top of my head

I thought ya'll were one entity
All in the same

-V

We are and I'm not sure what you're talking about
Sorry if you feel tilted from SCM1 but like we're in a different game

[Shoshin the worst]

if Kokichi just genuinely doesn't follow through on catching up he's obviously a fierce contender. I see nothing to townread from either of them but his catchup promise over just a naked vote is closer to playing in good faith than Nico's lurking/naked vote/complaining thing.

Hi The Worst

Sup

it others me that i call out TWs blatant pocketing on the last page and whoosh gone i have to say

Wait sorry what pocketing? The duck head pockets as both alignments and has no problems talking about pocketing. I'm not sure what you consider pocketing here.

Well hi Shoshin, for a hydra that claims to coordinate all posts with each other this post strikes as something you haven’t conferred over - almost like my accusation of this pocketing has shook you a little bit - guess I’m on the money

This is a brilliant way not to answer my question. What about this strikes you as pocketing and why do you think it's an issue I walked away from my PC at the time?

[Shoshin the worst]

Just gonna bring this into overdrive, actually, and go for the dunk.
Day Vig: Shoshin the Worst

Actually lack of flavour is likely fake

So stw, why didn’t you state you thought this when I asked?
-MC Gamma

I stated the thought the exact moment it occurred to me.

[Shoshin the worst]

I thought it was fairly obvious and didn’t warrant a specific answer - no ones really going pocketing what? So I’ll leave it at that

The walking away bit might have been coincidental

The breaking out into 2 heads was the most interesting though

What do you mean about breaking into 2 heads? and what about it interests you?

[Shoshin the worst]

@URAP2
We slightly townread ProFlavor but it's largely meta related and quite a weak townread. I think him joining us on you is slightly town indicative but only in a vacuum that it's the kind of thing profii does without paying attention to the gamestate (he followed his scumread onto another scumread). I'd also probably expect a little bit more from Flavour as scum here. He doesn't carry the energy he usually puts into scumming.

Chara is creeping up our list but it's also the first townread we are wrong on (outside of need to sort Varsoon). Its scumgame is pretty good and I think pocketing us at the time it questioned Varsoon on his read of us would be genuinely perfect timing. For the mort part though that slot is town, outside of paranoia.

Alchemist we're currently fairly strongly town on, I think we have spoken about this.

Hol up, what’s with the phrasing?

We were originally slightly paranoid and nervous about townreading them so easily. We aren't now though.