Mini Normal 2046: Autumn's Farewell [Endgame]

[OkaPoka]

look at iso and posts

the guy straight up calls out people and entire playerlist for being bad. there's a certain player-type he fits into. the people who are very elitist about their play and think of themselves very highly. agree?

[OkaPoka]

yeah

his player type would probably look down on self voters

[OkaPoka]

i mean i look down on self voters too
which is why i would probably never self vote

but yeah that's the gist of it

[OkaPoka]

Can't guarantee he isn't the type of player that would self-vote and blame others later.

i guess i can't guarantee that? but that's not a scenario worth considering unless you can prove that he's like that.
---
mbaki stuff
---
sorry i didnt want to respond to your wall, i had originally written something up but i deleted it. anyways to summarize what i thought ->
i think its its cool your wrote all that but i dont believe it. its never optimal, and i think a player with your promised caliber should understand that self voting is never good except as scum.
everything else doesn't matter if that doesn't match so yeah
---
ok assuming that it can only be one of you.
you.
here's the thing:
vorkuta's case is crumb.
but your case is crumb+doesn't match your worldview of the game. there's more meat to your case than vorkuta's
---
i dunno about fish and nero
all it says is they prefer to lynch vorkuta over you, but it doesn't say anything about your alignment.
kinda seems like ill be voting vorkuta anyways today, but there are a lot of undecided people and lurkers so i can still get what i want so i dont need to compromise for something less optimal

[OkaPoka]

i dont know what ur pointing at creature

can we go back to the better two wagons than whatever this is

[OkaPoka]

i mean he can add a few extra names here and there as long as he gets the point across right?

if im traitor trying to crumb. all i have to do is get scumteam to know who i am and then i speak gibberish so its not fishy

thats kinda the point of us looking for his crumbs

[OkaPoka]

grumble grumble

the outside voters don't even have a case

@creature
@suka
@kmd
@varsoon

make a nice solid post with some points detailing why this person is scum and why its superior to other wagons

[OkaPoka]

u know mbaki

ur starting to grow on me

unfortunate that you are probably scum

but i like u

[OkaPoka]

fuck it

VOTE: vorkuta

l1

get claim here.
anyone on stupid wagon needs to make stupid wagon less stupid by casing it.

[OkaPoka]

it is antitown not to case especially on a wagon you are starting by yourself
vanity wagons are useless

[OkaPoka]

suka says casing is scummy

im saying why its anti town not to case

[OkaPoka]

DDL AND BEF THIS HAS TO BE SETTING OFF ALARMS TOO RIGHT?

[OkaPoka]

suka if you dont case and dont vote a real wagon then u might as well be a tree stump

[OkaPoka]

actually tree stumps can still case

u might as well be a spectator

[OkaPoka]

why should i trust your experience?

[OkaPoka]

varsoon would u like to elaborate on ddl

[OkaPoka]

i guess

zzz

but that means we are going to be prodging until deadline? sounds like how you kill momentum

[OkaPoka]

leodanny is going to get replaced probs

maybe new blood will reinvigorate

[OkaPoka]

my scumreads are starting to grow on me on a personal level

[OkaPoka]

but he analyzed how im feeling perfectly in a nice way and i like that

and he remind me of me kinda with that intro

[OkaPoka]

Reformatting mbaki's post so I don't gauge out my eyes.

snip

This post has a lot of words, but the vast majority of it is just subtly flinging shit at me. I think Vorkuta's partner told him to post reads and a lot of words because that's the best way for scum to get rid of an l-1 wagon on them, and this is a stage of the game where scum really can't afford to bus. I am going to respond to every word here and demonstrate why it is scum.

Now's a good time to do my reads probably: I'm torn here.

Is there real scum on my wagon? Or is scum trying to protect me because lynchbait/they expect my lynch to go through and will have perfect scapegoats come D3/D4? Obviously I'd love to completely town read suka and varsoon for defending me, while scum reading NC and mbaki for the BS that they conjure up my way. However that would me the most obvious conclusion and I doubt scum that is obvious: that was my entire reason for clearing suka early on in D-1 in the first place.

Paragraph number 1 says, well, nothing. Rhetorical questions are an actual scum tell, but aside from that, he doesn't take an actual stance here. As in, this pagraph says

literally nothing

.

Sure browsing mbaki's ISO doesn't exactly reveal him to be the paragon of friendliness. However, he's conveniently USING his horrible personality to deflect all reads and lynch attempts by saying 'well you don't actually SCUM read me, you hate me as a person and thats akin to policy lynching'. This, plus his wagon, screams powerwolfing to me, coupled with the fact that he "gave up because he had no value to town this game" but then magically decided to be able to clearly see rb's crumbs and that life was worth living after all. Its like his scum chat collectively decided- hey mbaki, don't off yourself just yet and he reconsidered.

First of all, this is a very personal attack (as is this whole post, such as with the constant use of bullying) and I don't appreciate it. The first sentence was fine, and then you followed it with "his horrible personality". You nitpicked one thing I've said towards Oka as to why his vote was on me, twisted it, and said "defelcting all reads". It is level 1 posturing. And I didn't "magically decide to see rb's crumbs", Nero brought it up. My scum chat collectively is 1 other person in the world where I'm scum, because there's only 2 scum alive, and we've been over this many times but I really,

really

appreciate you trying to ham up the ignorant newbie card.

NC's posts read that of a cynical player that won't have any of this WIFOM attempts and trying to pick agendas with players on this site. He could go either way.

This is gibberish.

Oka has been

harassed

bullied by mbaki the entire time so there's that- I read a lot of genuine frustration.

I don't think I have been bullying Oka, if anything its a sign of respect how much effort I've put into talking to him. Buddying attempt noted.

I can kind of relate to the player who's sick and confused of the initial RQS/RVS stage tries to do experiment with something new but has been shot down and scum read for.... said reasons. Oka then follows this up with the most active questioning, asking specific players to give reads, and overall trying to solve the game in general. I town read this but feel betrayed at you putting me and DDL at L-1

Word choice is buddying here too. "Feel betrayed" after a full paragraph of complimenting here. Like, if a first time player read the wiki page for buddying and tried to put it into practice this is what would spit out. "You're a great person and y our play is good except the part you vote me that's not cool sad betrayal "

Suka reads as someone who has successfully avoided a wagon and is now trying to force push a BEF agenda. Obviously in my situation I would love to townread then and assume that they have special insight (PR much?) into BEF's alignment, but this tunelling makes me suspicious. I almost want to see the fallout that Suka will have to go through after a BEF flips (either way). I'm not going to scum read someone who wants to defend me and include me in their town core without better reasons.

The wagon Suka "successfully avoided" is mine... lmao? This is a good time to highlight that this entire post is literally just full of wiki words. "Force push a BEF agenda" has 3, and agenda doesn't even make grammatical sense there. It is, again, why this post is a lot of words but completely awful.

I would like to put extra emphasis on the last part of this paragraph though:

I'm not going to scum read someone who wants to defend me and include me in their town core without better reasons.

Vorkuta is

literally townreading those who townread him reflexively

. This is not a town mindset at

all

.

Creature has been meta read to hell and back and when he's not lurking he's hyper posting. I'll defer to the rest of you on what his alignment is because the amount of fluff posting and completely unwarranted random 'X is town' or 'X is scum' without any explanation and selective ignoring of certain questions screams scum to me.

Sure.

Varsoon I town read for the same reason I town read Suka- I don't believe, not for a second, that this lurking, V/LA, and just avoiding interactions is scum!varsoon's play. Sure this gameplay/style is tremendously different from my first game ever with him, but scum!Varsoon would put up much more of an interesting fight than.... this.... what he's doing now

You do town read him for the same reason you town read Suka- because you believe he scum reads me and town reads you! V/LA is not alignment indicative and it is quite literally against site rules to fake V/LA, and he isn't avoiding interactions, he's V/LA. Everything in this paragraph is NAI, and it shows there is no critical thought here because there is no fight for Varsoon to put up... I don't think he's ever had a wagon greater than a vote in this game.

Plus

I'm a horribly reactionary player.
I need to improve on this.
I need to be more proactive.
Just sitting around and responding and waiting for something to catch my eye as THIS IS SCUM doesn't cut it in games like this.

is self reflection and I town read this.

Except Kmd did self reflection too, that later in this post you say is scummy?

Now for KMD- most of what he says I almost 90% agree with and I like how he's trying to consider every and all options. However... I get the feeling that there's a bit of LAMIST in his posts plus (again) I'm cynical of statements like this.

My scum game is just me trying to match my town game.

Neither of those is alignment indicative really because self-reflection is a playstyle thing in the context you're using it, but I like how you use it as a way to keep Kmd lynch door open and pocket Varsoon .

BEF has been bullied by mbaki (and a few others ) as well and is currently trying to interpret rb's crumbs slightly more objectively and without as much cherry picking as mbaki is. Seeing as rb's posts are the only things that we can use to solve the game, I town read this (and have no idea on how to react to Suka's push)
However this strikes me as... interesting

I'm vigging you tonight anyways so I don't care what you think.

What "cherry picking" am I doing? Don't use words you don't know the meanings of, same with your usage of "agenda". rb's posts are also hilariously not the only things we can use to solve the game. You also completely ignored in this post that at least one person rb was scumreading has to be scum for him as a night kill to make sense.

DDL used a nice AtE early on and ended up as VT. As I said before, I'd like to think scum is classy enough to not stoop down to an AtE, and I think scum optimally claims anything but VT as it provides disruption, an opportunity to get conf!town read, all but guarantees them not to get lynched, and is overall the winning play for scum. His hope of delaying a lynch to not give the V/LA guys a free pass is something I town read.

This paragraph, again, says

nothing about DDL's alignment

. It begins with "scum doesn't AtE", when

the wiki literally has Appeal to Emotion as a common scum tell

and

he is scumreading me for my AtE

. Then it says "scum doesn't claim VT", which is just wrong as they do about half the time statistically and it says nothing specific to DDL.

Leodanny is probably using the newbie card more strongly than I am, but his posts seem to come from newb!town rather than newb!scum (yes, I changed my mind after parking my vote on him for a bit early on in D1). V/LA so....

Leodanny is not a newbie. All I have to say to this, lol.

The only not awful paragraphs here is the Creature one and possibly the first Varsoon one. Not awful, of course, meaning passable and not outright scummy. This is why newbie scum don't usually try to wall; because they simply can't do it.

[OkaPoka]

creature, rb probs left a crumb/crumbs but scum didn't pick up on it. sure its possible that he didn't crumb at all, but im willing to say that he did because it makes the most sense and its where the content leads us to.

i think trying to find townblocs to make is kinda stupid so im not going to do it.

[OkaPoka]

creature u can answer my stances of mbaki and vorkuta but isoing me.

[OkaPoka]

am i really that mumbo jumbo, like is the way im posting too hard to follow?

[OkaPoka]

we explore mbaki regardless of vorkuta flip with a closer lens

we can do it today too

there is so much content that has been made, we need flips to give us insight imo

but whatever this vanity wagon is, not going to do anything unless u start actually casing why they are scum

[OkaPoka]

is that ur case

[OkaPoka]

i guess not but i dont think thats gonna happen

i mean varsoon is scummy for that yeah, but i think there are better lynches with reasoning behind it

[OkaPoka]

chances that they are both scum > chances one of them is scum >> none of them scum

@creature more wouldn't hurt to compare

[OkaPoka]

i have zero clue what you mean

[OkaPoka]

lolwut

[OkaPoka]

The chance that they are both scum is greater than the chance that one of them is scum which is even greater than the chance that none of them are scum

[OkaPoka]

no im referring to mbaki and vorkuta

[OkaPoka]

bbl we are just spamming the thread at this point

[OkaPoka]

i guess ill keep talking

rb crumb plays a large part, but there are additional factors to consider

[OkaPoka]

u can iso me for reasons, any other questions u can shoot

[OkaPoka]

because it comes later in the grand scheme of things.

if im traitor, im crumbing early to make first impressions.

context wise it also doesn't make as much sense to be a crumb.

[OkaPoka]

maybe its a crumb? still feel like casewise vorkuta and mbaki have a lot more going for them to be scum, including the strength of crumb

[OkaPoka]

yeah which is why doing it early would be the best. therefore the crumbs should be weighted accordingly

[OkaPoka]

and for vorkuta its crumb hunting. whether he is sniffing prs or finding traitors, still really scum mentality mindsets to have early on.

mbaki still has more reasons to be lynched but after a while of trying to get people to vote mbaki and nobody biting means that its not happening without more info

[OkaPoka]

maybe but thats kinda objectively terrible traitor play and i dont think rb is an objectively terrible player

[OkaPoka]

no like crumb hunting before flip

[OkaPoka]

aka we didnt know there was a traitor and vorkuta was looking for one

[OkaPoka]

@rb- are you like... breadcrumbing with your 'wow's everywhere?
Is this your scumtell?

As for the Yyotta lynch- she won't come back except to basically 'prod-dodge'.
She pulls this stuff in her other games with her acting surprised an RVS vote, and the resulting 'why meeee?'
I'd support the policy lynch on her, but it's very much NAI, and her flip either way won't give us anything (unless we jackpot a scum PR )

[OkaPoka]

why would town point blank in rvs ~ish ask someone if they were pr crumbing

at first it was like an awkward joke but upon revisiting with flip its incriminating

[OkaPoka]

anyways still mbaki better lynch if u dont want to lynch vorkuta today

[OkaPoka]

wow isnt the crumb

the point is vorkuta came into the game with the mindset of where dem crumbs at

[OkaPoka]

ask him

in my mind its him trying to verify if rb was traitor or not

[OkaPoka]

Ok I have like 50 questions now (most of them towards mbaki because what he says makes no sense and just comes off as anti-town)

-How am I at L-1? It takes 6 to lynch and I count 4 (DDL, mbaki, nc, & fish). Fish put me at L-2, not L-1.

-Ok really: was I the ONLY person annoyed at rb's wow's so much that I wanted to call them out on it?
But noooo it's scum!vork traitor hunting. How on earth is that a 'scum claim' or anything of the sort?

-Seriously- if you're going to use 'inexperience' as an argument for 'vork is scum', I'll do the same thing and say I'm so inexperienced I didn't even know traitor was a role. After all- 3 newbie games and no mafia 'traitors' in there.

-Why are you guys giving the lurksacks and fluffposters a huge pass and not pressuring them to say something?
Your entire game plan, reasoning, and logic basically hinges on ME to flip red, leaving you in a complete crisis with a third of the player cast unaccounted for when I flip green.

-Again: your claim to read rb's breadcrumbs is complete BS.
RB couldn't have '''crumbed''' me because I'm not scum.
How is rb's #17 ANY less valid than his alleged crumbing of me?

The way I see it: you found yourself an easy newbie scapegoat to lynch on D2.
It'll cause scum!mbaki no worries or issues whatsoever, it won't reveal ANY useful information ('oh noo suka's defending him' can go both ways and you know it), and scum is one mislynch closer to victory.

So please- can you explain to me (like I'm a complete newbie) how you got that I was """traitor-hunting""" and """scum-claiming""" from what I've said so far?

[OkaPoka]

what are u saying

[OkaPoka]

there are more people than just mbaki who dont like the activity level

but none of us except for mbaki self voted

[OkaPoka]

assuming vorkuta is town and then voting bef because you are assuming vorkuta is town is kinda sketch

u even admit vorkuta has a lot of reasons to be scum but then you discard all of it? seems a bit random

[OkaPoka]

are u just voting bef because u dont want vorkuta lynched yet and want a counterwagon that isnt mbaki @dannflor?

[OkaPoka]

he was the largest wagon at the time so he had to do something and i disagree that scum can't manufacture rage

[OkaPoka]

why can't scum vorkuta make that nk?

[OkaPoka]

You do realize why mbaki was getting mad right?

[OkaPoka]

I mean technically why would anyone make the nk on rb at that point then right? We all see the same things.

[OkaPoka]

I guess? But why is vorkuta being townread for that then?

[OkaPoka]

yeah i agree that mbaki is better lynch

[OkaPoka]

Your point being?

[OkaPoka]

Anyways on mbaki too while we are here, mbaki's rage was manufactured af. His build up was directly linked to him reacting to me over the weakest of things. Its a bad buildup because its foundation is on bs.

[OkaPoka]

Like he got mad at me for not "doing anything" and not "posting reads"

???

If you think thats a valid reason to build rage, over one person, no.

+ i feel like i did a lot, maybe i didnt post many reads yet, but i mean its still early and my reads would be shit so there is no reason to post them
he later clarifies its over everyone, but yeah ok buddy

[OkaPoka]

Okay, I'm going to put my English minor to work here and try to make this readable.

Here's the thing.

Yes, I am not enjoying this game overly. To be 100% honest, rb was one of the few players I wanted to play with here, along with Creature and Varsoon. I read him wrong and he was removed from the game, both of which were demoralizing for me.

When the day started, I realized just how few reads I actually had. Then, rb's iso actually does kind of look like crumbing to me. It is very hard for me to convince people not to lynch me when in all honesty it does look like crumbing. As I've said before, the best case I have against it being crumbing is that is isn't because I'm town. Nothing more than that, it just isn't because its not.

You are reading my self vote

completely

wrong. I voted myself because I had no confident reads (useless to town), I am not an important role (if I am a pr it is not something like a cop), and rb's posts to me looked the most like crumbing* (meaning I'd be a liability later on if we didn't hit scum) (*before Nero brought up Vorkuta essentially scum claiming). The fact I was not enjoying this game, combined with the fact I thought it actually might be optimal for town to get rid of me; my self-vote was not out of rage, hence the "Good luck town." There is no ill will in that sentiment.

I am now voting Vorkuta and campaigning for his lynch because I have actual reads I can be solid in again. If Vorkuta is scum, that solidifies Fish can be town, Nero can be town, and a bunch more associations we can find day 1. I am no longer a liability because we found who rb crumbed to. I am still not going to be in love with this game, but after 2 scum dead it probably won't continue long. As to Fish's suggestion, absolutely subbing is an option, but I haven't subbed once in the decade I've played mafia for

any

reason, much less a temper tantrum. I no longer think it is optimal for town to lynch me, so I am not going to self-vote. If I am lynched today, that would be unfortunate but it isn't the end of the world. I'll likely just apologize to Fish in post game and stand by my sentiment YYotta should be banned for gamethrowing and be done with it.


In summation, yes I'm a raging baby but that wasn't a raging self-vote.

even goes on to say here that it wasnt rage
so yeah

[OkaPoka]

yeah i think its possible

ive done a scum v scum fight decently recently so i know its def possible

[OkaPoka]

like scum v scum is a really good way to bail out a lost game

[OkaPoka]

i dont feel like they did any direct clashing until today

and direct clashing is the bread and butter of a svs imo

[OkaPoka]

does really nobody see mbaki's rage buildup as fake ?

[OkaPoka]

maybe? I think it's dangerous to underestimate new players.

[OkaPoka]

+ new players can always be coached by scum buddies

[OkaPoka]

maybe the idea that they are even more scum because of interactions is too tunnelly

but i dont think that the idea that they cant be scum buddies because of their interactions should be used as an actual argument

[OkaPoka]

im not underestimating mbaki because it worked lmaoooooo

[OkaPoka]

i guess the coaching idea would be off the table if day talk no exist

[OkaPoka]

lynching bef is preflipping mbaki and vorkuta it feels?

[OkaPoka]

that's like the definition of preflipping

i dont know if preflipping is ever a smart thing to do

[OkaPoka]

no but scumreading/wanting to lynch bef because u townread vorkuta and mbaki kinda is

[OkaPoka]

ok i might be misinterpreting your case.

your case is that bef is scum because he makes sense to make that nk + vote swap to easier ML? + scumreads are on town?

[OkaPoka]

yeah it has been

I just wanted to weigh the bef case against my reads

meh

not feeling it tbh

[OkaPoka]

well

i dont think they are mislynches

so

yeah

[OkaPoka]

vorkuta says he wont claim unless there is an intent to hammer i think

dont think any questions were directed at me but i skimmed the past few pages because thats a lot of reading im kinda busy but i want to play

[OkaPoka]

Then why would rb breadcrumb scum if it goes against rb's wincon?

crumbing is important to traitor so scum knows who you are

otherwise might as well be playing with one less player on scum team, and setup probably not balanced around that

[OkaPoka]

even if u ignore rb crumbs, i still think there is enough reason to lynch mbaki

[OkaPoka]

honestly dont think there are any lylo liabilities in this playerlist because lurkers step it up in lylo

as long as u dont troll, dont do anything dumb, and can string together thoughts, that's enough reason to take to lylo

[OkaPoka]

i guess that rb might have been thinking diff but shouldn't it be standard for traitors to crumb?

yeah but im just saying i dont think anyone is a large enough liability to be lynched

only for yyotta

@dannflor should be enough

[OkaPoka]

look at mbaki's iso again

tell me why he got mad and is it actually justified

[OkaPoka]

when does town self voting play to their win condition


scum self votes to AtE

[OkaPoka]

ok

so why self-vote and not let others vote u up instead? let it happen naturally

[OkaPoka]

have u ever been so sure of something but then u feel uneasy in ur stomach and dont know what to do

asking for a friend

[OkaPoka]

No I just finished a game where a bunch of scum were lurkers and one dude I was pretty sure was town was scum

[OkaPoka]

I just have this feeling that it's varsoon

[OkaPoka]

Ok so I'm going to phone post some thoughts.

Basically c9++ game I played, I played pretty poorly and had some bad reads. Anyways this game is making me feel weird bc the more my scumreads post, the less scummy they feel which usually never happens ever for me. I don't know what to make of it.


Anyways for varsoon, I just feel like he's spectating the game rather than playing which just feels not good. Idk.

[OkaPoka]

Bef doesn't feel right either

[OkaPoka]

He is lot townier than the last game I played with him, like is more active and thoughtful

[OkaPoka]

I've played a game w kmd where he was kinda useless until lylo where he suddenly became good.

Which is why I think lurkers can be useful in lylo.

[OkaPoka]

Then again he was vla for half that game

[OkaPoka]

Maybe varsoon is the same

[OkaPoka]

He was town...

He also got vigged n1

[OkaPoka]

I'm not arguing anything I'm just phoneposting thoughts cuz I don't have enough brainpower to think rn.

I don't know about scum kmd

[OkaPoka]

in that respect my meta knowledge is quite limited to one game at most for people in the playerlist

[OkaPoka]

is it too late to do a varsoon wagon

the more i think about it

the more i think that varsoon is the best wagon

[OkaPoka]

nero

would a varsoon wagon be of interest to u

[OkaPoka]

u c

i just iso'd varsoon

and he has done literally nothing day 2

[OkaPoka]

who else would be interested in a varsoon wagon

just wondering

[OkaPoka]

fwiw I'm having second thoughts on vorkuta only because i read varsoon's iso and it looks sketchy so its kinda breaking my idea of mbaki/vorkuta because i think varsoon fits in there somewhere.

also when i saw ur hammer intent, i thought it was a fake intent just to get a claim

[OkaPoka]

i also think ddl is one of those people you have to push hard to actually get a good read out of them

[OkaPoka]

i dunno

i think its kinda important to see that ddl might be empathizing here because he also claimed vt and if he is vt then he probs thinks that vt claims come from town

[OkaPoka]

my vote sits on vorkuta because voting mbaki is equivalent to having no vote at all

i guess coaching isn;t completely off the table, but that's a lot of planning and forethought to the point where its wifom-y. like they would have to have predicted that they were both gonna get scumread today.

mbaki states himself that his self vote wasn't for towncred. soooo

[OkaPoka]

I do have a case.

click iso

its spread across a few posts

[OkaPoka]

whats wrong with testing the waters tho

if a wagon on u is not viable today then its not viable

[OkaPoka]

whats gross lol

[OkaPoka]

haha sure whatever u want to believe

[OkaPoka]

i mean he's going to get prodded if he doesn't post so he's going to have to say something

[OkaPoka]

do we really still have vanity wagons this deep into this day

yes we do

ahem

[OkaPoka]

@suka shadowlurker

[OkaPoka]

@suka chamber

[OkaPoka]

a new year

a new start

death to vanity wagons

[OkaPoka]

Dude I think that was hammer lmao

[OkaPoka]

Dude I think that was hammer lmao

ok now i have to be correct

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: bef

just claim so we can move on thx

no need to wait for intent

just do it

do it

do

it

[OkaPoka]

thats l1 btw

[OkaPoka]

(hey give intent so bef claims k thx)

[OkaPoka]

UNVOTE:

[OkaPoka]

do you have any other games where you were a 1-shot role?

[OkaPoka]

why did you do your whole vig shenanigans with mbaki?

[OkaPoka]

also any crumbs?

[OkaPoka]

but like why claim vig anyways? why attract unwanted attention to yourself?

[OkaPoka]

-_-

[OkaPoka]

can u link me any other games where you did this sort of vig shenanigans?

[OkaPoka]

actually yeah this is ridiculous

vig shenanigans should be enough

VOTE: bef

back to l1

[OkaPoka]

im going to need more than emotions got the best of me lmao

everyone gets mad but not everyone fakeclaims vigilante as a pr d1 bc angry

pedit: if a 1 for 1 is on the table ill take a 1 for 1

[OkaPoka]

im going to need more than emotions got the best of me lmao

everyone gets mad but not everyone fakeclaims vigilante as a pr d1 bc angry

pedit: if a 1 for 1 is on the table ill take a 1 for 1

I've been mad and fake claimed guilties on people on several occasions

links 4 entertainment pls

[OkaPoka]

bef how'd that fake guilty work out for you

[OkaPoka]

ok so would u fakeclaim as a not pgo

[OkaPoka]

so then

who r u thinking of there

[OkaPoka]

fair enough

[OkaPoka]

actually its not fair enough

creature how did you think this would play out.

bef would have had to claim today, no?

[OkaPoka]

like i was fair enough because normally i dont push pr claims

but then you included my l1 posts getting claims

thats the optimal play here. 100%. not fair enough. anything else is substandard

[OkaPoka]

@creature i still don't see why my play isn't the best play here.

@bef i think mbaki is asking why you held it if you knew you were going to be pushed today

[OkaPoka]

omg is mbaki town

[OkaPoka]

UNVOTE:

It's suboptimal to lynch a claim that's likely dying tonight anyway

I'm not sure I buy this logic. If BEF didn't die during the night, that wouldn't automatically incriminate him because of the existence of healer roles and roleblockers and scum playing mindgames. We'd be left in exactly the same situation tomorrow as we are today concerning BEF. Why should we not lynch him today?

Either he comes with a result tomorrow or he gets lynched.

or?

[OkaPoka]

like this is such a bad claim from bef (and def fake) but if he comes with a result tmr ur going to not lynch him? that makes no sense.

how does bef play match up with his 1-shot claim.

[OkaPoka]

the problem is bef is probably scum here cuz his claim is just bad and scummy so we are letting a free lynch slip through our fingers when we don't have to.

like ddl, remember last game where you claimed jk? if everyone had been scared like me to push that you most likely would have got away scot-free and probably ended up lynching mewtaph earlier. hindsight is 20/20 and I should have known your claim was bad (luckily rest of town was competent to save me here), so basically this game is my redemption arc.

like you would've been lynched eventually regardless b/c mew flip but still

[OkaPoka]

huh

[OkaPoka]

I'm saying had the rest of town not played correctly there and followed me, you wouldn't have been lynched which would be the wrong play.

Right now, I'm seeing a sort of similar situation from the claim sides. Both were very bad claims, things don't match here. Except now I have the gift of experience to know that lynching BEF today is the right move. No need to let more mislynches get in our way because bef decided to claim a pr.

[OkaPoka]

Why aren't they comparable?

One of the big reasons, internally, I backed away from lynching you was the idea that I could confirm you based on jailing. Would you say leaving you alive that last game was optimal?

[OkaPoka]

Like I had so much evidence against you where we did a short 1v1, and I was confident af you were scum because your AtE and chewbacca defense thing.

But then I dropped it all at the claim. All I'm saying is that we were lucky to have a competent town to pick up where I came short. I think it's a similar situation here. Except now I have the power to enlighten y'all.

[OkaPoka]

Who's the partner ?

[OkaPoka]

thanks?

[OkaPoka]

I thought I pushed yyotta the most :/

"Checking" DDL is a waste

BEF is still scum

suka can possibly be scum as well, but I don't feel as confident in any lynch other than BEF.

whats going to happen if we don't lynch bef is we are going to probably then mislynch today because odds are stacked against us heavily now, town n2 gets nk'd, and bef claims that either the person he checked was killed or he was rb'd and then we are here again except w two less town members. yeah there is this unlikely scenario where bef straight up did all this nonsense as a real 1-shot neopolitan, but playing for the 1% scenario to sabotage 99% other scenarios is not worth. if there was a way to make sure 100% it was safer, id do it, but this isn't that case.

discussion is going to stall if we don't flip bef. straight up.

[OkaPoka]

i can't tell if he's spectating the game or playing the game.

his decision to stick on suka vanity wagon is sketch bc vanity wagon-ing is sketch. people who vanity wagon when the lynch choices are clear are people who don't want to dirty their hands (which solidifies my question of whether he's actually playing the game or not) (and also people who don't want to dirty their hands = probably scum)

im probably going to go reread DDU kmd iso later to verify some things, b/c i felt like he was similar in that game where he seemed spectator-y up until lylo.

but he's still been scummy so

yeah

[OkaPoka]

with all that said

bef

is

priority

1

[OkaPoka]

yeah

but what i feel is what i feel

u being obv town and then impossible for me to mislynch happened to correlate directly w lylo

correlation != causation but i guess u can prove me wrong by obv towning now

[OkaPoka]

I shouldn't post now because I'm tired but here we go.

@kmd maybe that's true, and if it is yikes for me, ill need to reread ddu to verify some stuff

for mbaki
just had one of those lightbulb moments and decided that maybe ur just town. kinda like an on/off switch. After BEF stuff happened, by PoE/associatives you being scum just no longer made logical sense.

[OkaPoka]

as a former mbaki hater

mbaki town here

[OkaPoka]

i don't think scum is that unapologetic about lynching yyotta. I know I'm not

also we are straight up pushing the same people

basically barring that self-vote play, he plays/thinks how i play/think which means hes town

self-vote will always be a big ?, but i guess post-game discussion is for that

[OkaPoka]

since we are in twilight

it turns out i have played w varsoon

a long long time ago

[OkaPoka]

Varsoon claims first here.

I'm 99% sure he is scum here.

I think I know what he is doing here.

I don't care what his results are, we are lynching him first today. Only an IC reveal will prevent me from doing that.

VOTE: varsoon

[OkaPoka]

I'll claim after varsoon.

I'll massclaim whatever. Just varsoon goes first here.

[OkaPoka]

Whatever. You are scum, you are caught scum, and you know you were getting lynched today so you are trying to take others down with you and I'm not letting that happen.

[OkaPoka]

I don't believe for a moment you are this dumb.

This game isn't in lylo, 4:9 games don't happen. If scum double quickhammered then we found both of them.

[OkaPoka]

Unless varsoon is an IC, he's scum here.

[OkaPoka]

Okay then you are scum here.

[OkaPoka]

I'll claim and I'll be the only one who claims after Varsoon.

He knows he's caught and he's going to take down prs with him.

[OkaPoka]

Play.

[OkaPoka]

I'm not fakeclaiming against you.

If you want me to case you I can. I don't think I need to because anyone can click ISO on you and come to the same conclusion as me. If I have to gladiate votes onto you I will.

I don't need to unvote.

fine we can mass claim but varsoon goes first because I think I see exactly where this is going.

[OkaPoka]

you know what I'll just say what I'm thinking.

Varsoon knows he's going to get lynched sooner or later. He might as well try and force out pr claims so his buddy can knock out all the threats. He's going to go ahead and make up a result that incriminates one pr or another to try and get them ML and then he's going to get his bud to shoot the other pr.

Now that I've said that I've poisoned the well. But that's why I don't want to massclaim. I think we are playing directly into his hands.

[OkaPoka]

Why does it matter if I unvote?

If scum decides to yoloquickhammer here, they would out themselves.

They can't win in this nightphase. They have no extra kills, that is not normal. 4v9 isn't possible.

[OkaPoka]

ascetic

[OkaPoka]

in what context?

[OkaPoka]

You think I'm mafia ascetic?

[OkaPoka]

Varsoon.

[OkaPoka]

It's why I scumread the 1-shot Neopolitan claim.
The interactions both the '1-shot' and 'Neopolitan' parts have with Universal Backup are so wonky, I didn't think it'd be a likely role to have.

Okay then why did you set elsewhere for the majority of the day, only to swing back to BEF near the end and then vote elsewhere after hammer?

VOTE: OkaPoka


FINALLY
SUPPORT FOR A WAGON I CAN DO

indicates that you didn't support a BEF wagon at all, even post 1-shot neo claim that happened here:

It's basically inevitable now...

1-shot Neapolitan.
No, I haven't used my ability yet was going to save it as long as possible or when the number of players was smaller so I could sort my result better.

I'm iffy on it.
Haven't loved the slot, but I'd rather lynch elsewhere.

Oh and this?

Not really much, I guess.
I just get worse vibes from Oka and DDL.
The way they are present and how they interact with the game
It bothers me
I can't really articulate it

Did you really scumread that claim?

[OkaPoka]

Varsoon, why would you want Creature to claim before you? Wouldn't you want to get claims from others who may have visited Creature, not from Creature himself?

Well, I wanted to claim last and have Creature go right before me, but doing it this way means that now Creature's stuck to his claim instead of being able to lie about his role after I claim my result, if that makes sense.

In what world would you voyeuring creature ever allow you to catch creature lying?

[OkaPoka]

I'm Town Universal Backup.
I inherited Nero's Town Voyeur role and used it on Creature on N3.

I'll hold my result until after everyone else has claimed.

Main reason I played very cautiously early on was because I didn't want to be killed but still wanted to be suspected enough to be kept around for a lynch.
I was hoping to get something good like cop but eeeh.

What?

Spiderverse was really good, probably one of my favorite animated movies ever made.

Also, some shit happened that's really soured me on playing mafia so I might just replace out here since I'm having trouble keeping up. :/

Wasn't this why you were playing "cautiously" ?

All the other games I was in have ended so now I'll probably be more present here.
Maybe.
Sorry for low-efforting this.

Or this?

[OkaPoka]

Varsoon, why would you want Creature to claim before you? Wouldn't you want to get claims from others who may have visited Creature, not from Creature himself?

Well, I wanted to claim last and have Creature go right before me, but doing it this way means that now Creature's stuck to his claim instead of being able to lie about his role after I claim my result, if that makes sense.

Alternatively: having literally anyone else instead of creature claiming before you would be better if you were voyeur than having creature claim before you.

Literally anyone else is better.

Even one person, higher chance of catching a lie.

[OkaPoka]

I've got info that may or may not expose if someone is lying, so I should probably go last or near-last.

Here you even state your goal is to try and catch a lying pr in vague ways.

Anyway, since I'm being browbeaten here;
I will only claim after Creature claims.
Creature needs to claim next.

But then here there is a bit of contradiction with your claim and supposed targets isn't there?

You were lying? lmao.
Oh I see, this is my fault. When your claim and play makes no sense. This is a BEF level claim right here.

[OkaPoka]

can I have everyone take a moment to check varsoon's iso and see what I see?
Thanks!

[OkaPoka]

So you were planning for the 1% scenario? Ok whatever, everyone else can be the judge here because I really don't think I need to argue this point anymore

please, everyone look at varsoon's iso. Look at what he has actually done this game. Thanks.

[OkaPoka]

I think its one in {varsoon}

and one in {everyone else except me}

Just my 2 cents though

[OkaPoka]

Suka are you x-shot?

[OkaPoka]

Because I am very confident he is scum and if you want more reasons you can look at my posts and look at varsoon's posts and if you have more questions you can ask me and also are you x-shot?

[OkaPoka]

mbaki

varsoon makes even less sense

[OkaPoka]

I have him as one of my potential Varsoon partners.

[OkaPoka]

I don't want to go and case someone that I don't want to vote today.

[OkaPoka]

I have enough reason to scumread just about everyone this game.

I just have the most for Varsoon.

DDL would be in my top pool, but a lynch that is not Varsoon is not preferable.

[OkaPoka]

I guess that makes sense, but so did the idea of unrestricted GS,JK,Vig,Voyeurs being too townsided in a 13p setup.

Personal experience dictates that I should just vote whoever I believe is scum, rather than lynching off of setup spec that I don't really understand well enough.

[OkaPoka]

does nobody agree that varsoon is scum here?

[OkaPoka]

Are we all drained from playing this game?

Can the nonvoters throw down their votes please? I don't want this to drag on for 10 more days.

[OkaPoka]

Creature where are you.

[OkaPoka]

why does creature have a maga hat

also does this mean i have to reread the game to find varsoon's partner?

ughh i dont want to do that

[OkaPoka]

I really want to lynch varsoon though? Like nothing he has done has convinced me otherwise.

Is he mad at mbaki and voting me because of that ?

[OkaPoka]

ddl vs mbaki is ??? for both cases?

[OkaPoka]

i feel like they both boil down to i think you suck at this game lmaoooo

vs varsoon

who is a lurkkity lurk lurk scum scum who didn't play his role how his role is needed to be played and is a big meanie who doesn't like when others be mean to him and lashes out weirdly and lets lynch this already hi guys hello this is scum yes and is managing to get away with naughty things such as not playing the game until day 4 yes vote him its a good idea

[OkaPoka]

Varsoon and DDL look kinda similar, but Varsoon is scummier IMO.

i find cool quote if you need a reason other than me to sheep me

[OkaPoka]

mbaki did u suck this game

[OkaPoka]

why has everybody's reads been awful

[OkaPoka]

cool

can u vote varsoon yet tho

[OkaPoka]

Do you need me to convince you I'm town or Varsoon is scum?

[OkaPoka]

So everything I've said has not convinced you that maybe Varsoon is scum?

[OkaPoka]

Depends what scum has though right?

[OkaPoka]

lmao does that make rolecop traitor a liability as well?

[OkaPoka]

is that a question or something i don't understand what you are saying