Mini 2052: Downtown Train Mafia - Game Over!

[northsidegal]

it's not that everyone already confirmed, the thread is just opened before everyone has

[northsidegal]

downtown train, northsidegal, uptown girl



anyways, i townlean allo a bit
VOTE: TGP

[northsidegal]

@mod I would like clarification on the crewman rule. If all the crewmen die, does that mean everyone loses?

my impression was that scum win if all of the crewmen die

making this setup something like white flag masons or this one setup fakegod made once

the implications of which (to me, at least) go without saying

[northsidegal]

VOTE: amor

i think this is actually scummy.

townleaning brass now, too.

[northsidegal]

i can already tell this i'm going to struggle this game given my relative unfamiliarity with the playerlist.

@dva and auro

, i would appreciate both/either of you being active and helping me out this game, if you're town.

[northsidegal]

@NSG: Why do you scumread Amor?

to tell you the truth i'm not sure i entirely remember why i felt that way – it was 3 AM. i will say that it most likely was a gut feeling about 39 being a "wolfy pop-in" at a time when other, actually game-related things were being discussed.

[northsidegal]

rcenigma, are these (newbie 1895, mini normal 2038) the only two completed games you've rolled scum in?

[northsidegal]

oops, thought i had responded to this earlier.

Unfamiliar shouldn't be an auto struggle. Just new experiences and new people and perspectives to see.

well, that's true – it's just that i'm somewhat confident that a playerlist having experience with each other is a massive benefit for town (and i think that that could be proven somehow, although i wouldn't know how). at the very least, i obviously find it a lot easier to sort players who i've played with before, and it's usually easier for me as well when other players can sort me as town easily.

Tbh Allomancer's reaction to the wagon on him sounds pretty towny.

~Auro

you think so? i'm pretty null on it, really.

[northsidegal]

from what i've got from other's it's "activity and depth of thought", both of which apparently aren't really there (or are there in less presence than in my towngames) when i'm scum.

if you're really interested, my wiki is fully up to date right now.

[northsidegal]

from what i've got from other's it's "activity and depth of thought", both of which apparently aren't really there (or are there in less presence than in my towngames) when i'm scum.

if you're really interested, my wiki is fully up to date right now.

Right. I did a really quick check and your last two scumgames you survived and won. Could you describe what went wrong in town's sorting of you then?

~Auro

807's town was entirely newbies after the one experienced player who wasn't scum replaced out, so i was able to get away with playing a pretty weak game (and i think a townie voted early in lylo or something)

taz mafia just had a

lot

of scummy townies – i wasn't really townread at all that game, i just survived to endgame from others being lynched before me and something of a throw by a townie in endgame despite everyone wanting me lynched

[northsidegal]

don't have enough to feel comfortable making any sort of conclusive statement yet, although i'm not feeling any better about him.

after thinking about it, in contrast with my earlier statement of the unfamiliarity of the playerlist, i do think given time i should be able to get a pretty good solve here actually (and given our current deadline, time is something we have a lot of here)

[northsidegal]

I don't like this very much, part of the challenge of mafia is to read people you haven't played with. NAI, but eh.

you don't like the fact that i would like it if the game was easier to solve?

what is "but eh" supposed to mean?

[northsidegal]

sorry, i find it hard to comment on any of the conversation around the allo wagon or bambi jumping off the wagon or whatever. none of it really seems all that meaningful to me yet.

[northsidegal]

i will say that i townlean all of auro, rcenigma, brass and bambi.

[northsidegal]

why do you townread robert?

[northsidegal]

can you elaborate on the connection between scumreading allo and jay and robert being town?

while you're at it, i'm certain you've talked about this previously, but could you summarize why you scumread allo and jay?

[northsidegal]

can everyone please stop and slow down for a second

don't intent bambi

i can barely even parse what's going on

[northsidegal]

from what i can gather, you guys are being incredibly silly in doing this.

here's why i leaned town on bambi earlier – i'm pretty sure that bambi prefers playing scum to town and usually just has a lot more fun in her scumgames. i hadn't really seen that so far from her this game – quite the opposite, really. she even makes specific mention of being bored here:

The difference between Allomancer and me is that im honest in not wanting to do shit for town. He tries to not do stuff but make it look like he's working.

I'm not scum, just a bored terrorist with nothing to lose.

this tell worked for me once a while ago but i ignored it and mislynched her anyways, but i feel like it's still reliable.


even if you don't believe me there, i feel like these posts are pretty towny in their frustration with being voted for reasons that you think are really bad, a feeling i can definitely understand:

Unvote, Vote Bambi

Not responding to the L-2 part of the post seems like trying to extend the joke period.

I did respond to the L-2 part by saying it didnt mean anything. Early wagons mean jackshit, you know. You, however, really feel like going against me this early. RC doing weird shit I can ignore for now. But you, who doesn't even know me, jumped so fast at my feet that it really is weird.

At most, you have a policy lynch case building up for a lady telling jokes. At worst, you are trying to get me hung fast and generally just being a scum too eager for a mislynch.

The fact people keep bringing up a vote I did for shits and giggles as an accusation for bussing is... How do I describe this properly?

Oh yeah. Stupid as all hell. Also known as SAAH. Believe me, I thought it was a rockband as well.

[northsidegal]

and let's flip this around: what

is

the case for bambi being scum? that she's "not playing the game"?

that isn't scum indicative in general, it isn't scum indicative for bambi (quite the opposite, in fact), and it isn't a reason that someone should have intent declared on them at this stage in the game.

i really think anyone who thinks that it is should just try to look past whatever frustration you may have. i'm not here to policy lynch people: i am here to solve the game and lynch scum. i fully intend to use as much of our long deadline as necessary to find at least one scum before there's even a chance that i die night one. this isn't how the day is ending.

[northsidegal]

anyways,

@mod, is tonymontana being replaced / has he been prodded?

[northsidegal]

brassherald you have no idea how unbelievably anti-town that intent was from you in a game that is essentially white flag masons.

[northsidegal]

yes, and no.

[northsidegal]

well, i guess "white flag masons" is the wrong term, but that's just the way that i know how to say "a setup in which there are masons and town loses when all of the masons are dead"

which as far as i was aware, was this setup, with the crewmen being the masons.

[northsidegal]

it was open 714. yes, i do – why do you ask?

[northsidegal]

I wasn't too worried about the wagon since it was more of a threat to make Jay play the game, and Brass wouldn't ITH without everyone else chiming first. Something he said which I prolly shouldn't discuss makes me believe he's town, however.

no, i definitely agree that a hammer was realistically unlikely, it just alarmed me in the first place that a wagon was at l-1 that i disagreed with when i didn't even really understand the reasoning there.

If Jay's town I think TGP's vote there is most suspect.

i think i might agree.

[northsidegal]

Towning Allomancer for reasons I've stated previously, though I'm open to changing my mind there.
Townleaning NSG and RCE, and BrassHerald for reasons.

This leaves Amor, TonyMontana, TheGoldenParadox, Bambi Jay and Robert2424.

I'm interested in sorts/cases on Amor and Robert2424 at the moment, their ISOs aren't leaving me with anything.

~Auro

i agree with you on RCE, preliminarily allo (need to read closer there), and i'm going to trust you on brassherald, although i don't disagree.

from the people left i do think bambi should be town from that group.

that leaves {amor, tony, TGP, robert}

[northsidegal]

thinking back on it more i actually do somewhat like amor's ISO so far

to be fferyllt for a moment, i think there's something of a genuine trajectory there in the bambi read, as well as the questions he asks

[northsidegal]

so time to be Proactive With My Vote™!

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

[northsidegal]

Looking back through TGP's ISO I actually just really don't like it. I don't think any of the questions he's asked has been good.

[northsidegal]

Looking back through TGP's ISO I actually just really don't like it. I don't think any of the questions he's asked has been good.

So you're getting on a wagon that started as an OMGUS. That's fine, I guess. Can you please point me to the questions I've asked that have not been good?

what does how the wagon started have to do with anything at all? should it change anything for me?

i don't think any question in 116 was very good with the exception perhaps of the one regarding the allo wagon, although even that i don't feel was asked with true sorting intent.

So wait... you're voting me because I clearly showed an L-1 AFTER you asked how many votes there were on Bambi, and that's somehow reminiscent of a post I made a year ago in a newbie game
What the ....?

your response to brass here is just kind of a defense of yourself without any commentary at all on how it relates to brassherald and his alignment. it doesn't feel like you actually care about figuring out if the person who, in your eyes, just made this really terrible vote is town or scum. that to me somewhat indicates that you already know the answer.

[northsidegal]

i would prefer you made some mention of brass' alignment. if you're town you should know better than to present the false dichotomy of absolutely no mention of brass' alignment at all and that type of screaming.

when did you trying to sort me come into this?

[northsidegal]

i'm leaning town on robert

[northsidegal]

it's kind of a lazy read, i suppose

i guess i townread his relative lack of direction as well as his lack of real scumreads, kind of as shown in these posts:

I'm still here, just mainly stumped.

Your not really a scum read. I don't have any scum reads. If I had to choose somebody, I'd choose Bass, mainly for his aggressiveness but it doesn't mean scum. I voted you cause I had 0 notes on you, so I wanted activity and conversation, I got both. My main problem is my lack of a scum read. Though my day one reads are usually trash, having no reads doesn't bode well for me getting any better reads for the following days, therefore, I have to make something, even if its out of nothing, to get a read.

Activity is a contributing factor to my thoughts on anybody. I recently finished a game were scum laid behind the scenes while town tore itself apart. Before I was lynched, I figured out the remaining scum team, but my words fell on death ears. The slots committed nothing to the game but nobody seemed to care.

TGP the last game I played with him was very conservative and flipped anti, here he is opposite, course he could be trying to change his play style. Course I did hammer him too. Not sure if he was expecting me to do so, but yeah. Why my thoughts are on him right now.

i

imagine

that scum would have someone that they would be voting, even if they weren't really scumreading them and never talked about their scumreads (i.e. naked voting people, sheeping wagons and the like)

i also like that apparently he's taking notes, although that may have just been a figure of speech

[northsidegal]

so i guess my townreads right now are {bambi, robert, amor, rcenigma}
maybe brass, maybe darth vader.

i know i strongly townread darth vader earlier but i would very much like them to post more and don't feel comfortable with them not doing so. that being said, i understand that auro is probably busy and this is a low activity game, along with dva having maybe siteflaked? seems like she hasn't logged on for a little bit.

[northsidegal]

do you townread munch?

[northsidegal]

could you go a little bit into why?

also, why are you letting auro take front stage mostly? after the coalition, i haven't gotten to play a game with town!you yet.

maybe you're... scared i'll catch you?

[northsidegal]

there are too many people for whom i have very light reasons to townread unless the scumteam is like literally TGP/Munchmellow

[northsidegal]

I think you have way too many townreads though. Is Munch a PoE for you?

~Auro

yeah what i was saying that was that munch would be like among the two people whom i have just no reasons at all to townread

[northsidegal]

i guess (assuming the scumteam

isn't

TGP/Munch — i would laugh if it was) this game will be an interesting exercise in seeing which of my reasons to townread people are unreliable

[northsidegal]

robert i just talked about in 281

dv for ~reasons~

amor i described as his trajectory, which looking back on it looks like a reason i'm categorically likely to be wrong on and i'm not sure i should trust in

rcenigma meta, i don't feel i'm likely to be wrong here

allo said that he was excited at the start of this game and by default i assume people like playing town more than scum, perhaps especially someone who doesn't play mafia much. i also townread 190. although, looking at 189 makes me feel something that i want to elaborate on later.

bambi i've talked about

brass again for vague ~reasons~, i also think 270 is pretty town-indicative. maybe.

[northsidegal]

@Allo, what's your read on bambi?

[northsidegal]

do you dislike townreads on yourself?

[northsidegal]

haha, i totally get the feeling. can't promise it won't happen again soon though.

[northsidegal]

roar

!!!

[northsidegal]

VOTE: brass

[northsidegal]

i voted brass mostly just to do something, don't really scumlean him (although i don't have much of a townread on him either)

i've decided that i'm fine with today ending with a TGP lynch

i'm ambivalent towards the allo wagon

[northsidegal]

actually i'm less ambivalent than i thought

i would very much prefer a TGP lynch over an allo lynch, at least for today.
VOTE: thegoldenparadox

[northsidegal]

Hey Amor, any reason why having your vote still parked on me is a wonderful idea?

Because I think that you're most likely to be scum, and am not convinced by the current wagons?

amor is probably town for this

[northsidegal]

Okay, I'm rescinding my (much earlier) townlean on Allo here.
There's a consistent pattern of Allo discrediting major wagons throughout the day without any *real* reasons. He continues making vanity votes (RCE, Robert) without really making an effort to shift pressure onto those slots; I get the feeling he's making up reasons to have his vote in unproductive places to keep the gamestate from gaining momentum anywhere / deflect attention away from a wagoned scumbuddy.

There are other red flags in his ISO (shade on Bambi and refusal to vote; unproductive posts that don't advance the gamestate etc.) that others have pointed out too, but I think this should be a good lynch for today, and DVa agrees with me on this too.

in allo's defense i think scum in this kind of gamestate and even allo!scum specifically are probably less likely to use "discrediting major wagons and vanity voting" as a strategy and more likely to just coalesce onto popular town wagons

deliberate attempts to keep the game stagnant are something that very few scumplayers actually do i think.

keeping

a game stagnant is something that any scum player can do, but deliberately creating that kind of environment is a pretty advanced tactic i think

[northsidegal]

to be clear, i don't townread allo or TGP but out of the two i feel like TGP is more likely to flip scum whereas i feel like allo is more likely to just be a mislynch

[northsidegal]

I'm not sure whether to agree with you because this vindicates me, or get mad that you don't think I'm capable of advanced tactics.

it's not that i don't think you're capable of it – i think most any player would be capable of it. i guess it's that i don't think it'd be your go-to strategy.

i mean, do you yourself think that it's something that you could and would do? you've said yourself that you're relatively inexperienced when it comes to mafia, so that's largely what i'm basing my view off of.

[northsidegal]

do you think objectively speaking you should be townread here or do you think people's cases have some merit