Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

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Post Post #45  (isolation #0)  » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:49 am

is this game UMS or ladder?

VOTE: shoshin the worst
there are no ducks in starcraft
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Post Post #83  (isolation #1)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:54 am

In post 77, Varsoon wrote:I don't understand why town would ever commit to play that knowingly hinders reads accuracy.

Doesn't make sense to me either.

In post 58, Shoshin the worst wrote:We've spoken about it a fair bit and have made the decision not to focus on signing. We expect quite a bit of clutter because of all the hydras, so we're synchronising our reads as much as possible before posting & collaboratively writing the majority of our posts.

@stw could ya'll talk to me about why you think the reduction in clutter resulting from synchronizing is more beneficial to town than signing your posts?
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Post Post #143  (isolation #2)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:40 pm

In post 131, Shoshin the worst wrote:Could everyone clarify why they're voting us?

-Shoshin & the worst

my vote was rvs

now it's real

I'm not convinced by Taly's wifom argument

This signing posts thing and follow up posts are the scummiest posts of the thread. Why does town you not just go okok jeez and start signing?

@varsoon
Dunno about the word choice argument. It seems to me that if a person wasn't using a phrase, and then they pick up a phrase, they might keep using that phrase regardless of alignment. I definitely find myself doing that in conversation.

Can you find an instance not in the SC1 game where Shoshin used that turn of phrase?

of course you could also just be right.
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Post Post #147  (isolation #3)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:49 pm

In post 145, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:I think Starcraft 1 is only her second scumgame on this site. I could probably try the look up the first. The worst might have linked to it in Labrynth.

But even if she hadn’t, unless she has done that in at least one towngame, I think it’s reasonable to view it as scummy.


Hrm, small sample size would make that difficult to confirm

It's definitely not town indicative.
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Post Post #158  (isolation #4)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:24 pm

In post 151, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 143, u r a person 2 wrote:This signing posts thing and follow up posts are the scummiest posts of the thread. Why does town you not just go okok jeez and start signing?

We are signing. That doesn't change the fact that most posts are written by both of us.

-Shoshin & the worst

I don't know enough (anything) about hydra etiquette to know if this is a fair or taking the piss
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Post Post #160  (isolation #5)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:38 pm

ok ty =P
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Post Post #168  (isolation #6)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:17 pm

In post 163, Shoshin the worst wrote:@nancy you should feel bad for nearly every post you've made. Literally. You're peddling nonsense.
@harpoon your ISO has become such a farce I'm losing my rvs townread on you. get back to fucking playing.

can i take these to be scum reads?
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Post Post #185  (isolation #7)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:45 pm

i read over the isos

varsoon could be right

but i don't want this lynch anymore right now

I think I'll join you on Taly.

VOTE: Taly
Hi Taly,
Would you kindly talk to me about your varsoon read (or any read you have other than Shoshin the worst)
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Post Post #217  (isolation #8)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:33 pm

In post 205, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: u r a person 2

sup bro

Taly looks townie but I didn't have another good place to vote so I was kind of just waiting for something to go on

I'm also concerned about my ability to read this player list as a whole at a rate better than average.

and have been toying with the question of whether sheeping a player or hydra experienced with the player set might be greater +eV than following my own reads

not really straight sheeping but committing myself to ++weighting their reads

Someone like Almost Chara - I like the thinking behind A50's lynch pool, or at least what I infer the thinking to be. But I'm also in that lynch pool which has to lower the equity of the entire worldview

I've also noticed pintu promising a catch up, and I've been watching to see if he was going to follow through. I guess it's been long enough to plop a vote there.

VOTE: Pintu
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Post Post #218  (isolation #9)  » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:34 pm

In post 217, u r a person 2 wrote:rate better than average.

should read
rate better than random
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Post Post #246  (isolation #10)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:23 am

@tw
is pintu's rvs vote.
I think it's likely I'm missing a meme or inside joke because its inclusion feels off without any context.

Overall I think it's nai. Not too awkward.

, are not game related

and , are as of yet unfulfilled catch up promises.

Well and the unvote because he saw the votecount - which was L-2 if he only saw the vote count, and actually L-3 which he may have seen while skimming the page.

seems needlessly lamist.

Not much to work with as of yet
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Post Post #247  (isolation #11)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:24 am

In post 246, u r a person 2 wrote:I think it's likely I'm missing a meme or inside joke because its inclusion feels off without any context.

sorry this refers to the "and for Sparta!!!1!!one!" part of the post
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Post Post #249  (isolation #12)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:35 am

Only the thoughts I gave you. Looking at it further,

The last two lines are funny in the context of the thread. I wouldn't put it past a scum to make that comment pretending not to have caught up as a troll

I have no idea what is record is of reading you, so I can't really evaluate that claim or his motivation for asking you to sign.

he's not playing any other games so I'm willing to believe he's disengaged, although his rvs post did seem excited to play (and why not?)

Are you seeing something here? because I'm having trouble getting much of consequence.
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Post Post #250  (isolation #13)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:44 am

The "let's see what happened there" is kind of odd because if he did see that it was L-3, then that's only one vote more than you had the last time he posted. (at you were at L-4) that's really not much movement, from the pov he is claiming.

that combined with his comment about you signing posts and maybe you've got a decent reason to believe pintu had actually read the thread when he said he hadn't.
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Post Post #372  (isolation #14)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:43 pm

well my vote is because pintu is one of the few players here I have experience with, so I want to sort him, but I need him to play.

The "push" is a response to stw's questions which I wanted to give a full faith effort for them because they are some of the few players that have experience with me and I want to give them the best opportunity to find town!me.

my town leans right now are
STW -tone,play I think TW is trying to use his experience modding and playing with me to read me and that's why he's asking me for my thoughts about specific posts.
varsoon - sheeping taly
almost chara - town by play, thought process behind lynch pool
tibor and lumia i like the thought in gemma's play and brass i think sounds town, this is pretty light even for this list
taly - natural progression from his initial gambit to current play.

Let's take the leap of faith that these are correct. If there was scum on stw's wagon, i'd look first at pin, proflavor and alch

still like the pin vote
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Post Post #376  (isolation #15)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:02 pm

In a game where so few votes are being thrown around, it seems silly to call my play sticking to an easy read

but

that's a fair amount of slots scum reading me. let's get a wagon going
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Post Post #382  (isolation #16)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:40 pm

Feels great to be recognized

I'm just going to run through slots as long as I've got the time to do it.

Michael Scott feels pretty town. I like how he questions a a reciprocal town read on himself in . I like how they continued this line of questioning in , before concluding in .

I like the initiative demonstrated in his meta read on varsoon, although I do think he found enough examples of venom (i know it's not venomless, but-) to diminish the read.

I don't like the two posts spent questioning proflavor about an obviously nonsense/joke scum read. @MS what's the deal w/ this?

overall town read
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Post Post #385  (isolation #17)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:47 pm

I've had a hard time engaging with posts by either Ari or Nancy, so I haven't been giving that slot much thought. Realistically, this is a slot that my highest ev play is to find someone in a better position to make a meta read, and then sheep them.

But, I'll dig into them now because you asked. Gimme a hot minute
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Post Post #387  (isolation #18)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:00 pm

expected value

in other words, i expect to have a higher win rate in this game by picking a good slot or slots to sheep on that read than I do relying on myself to make the read.
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Post Post #400  (isolation #19)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:50 pm

Okay, Mephistophanes

There's hydra dissonance between ari and nancy over both the signing posts bit and shoshin's phrase usage. I can see a scum motivation for taking opposite sides of an argument surrounding hot early game topics because the game board is still being set so staying flexible is most valuable during this stage of the game.

Others have pointed out that dissonance can be townie, and I think there is a fair amount of history or baggage that I may not be fully understanding regarding ari and signing in particular. So I'm calling this NAI, but if anyone more experienced with ari wants to chime in, that would be neat.

I like nancy's argument in . I'm not scum reading stw anymore, but it is still a good post by nancy.

I like ari's read on alch in and agree.

I like Nancy's progression on stw. It seems organic. The same is true for the progression on taly in . I believe it. I think that is nancy talking, but it's unsigned and I'm not sure.

There is a lot of noise in this slot, and if I'm missing something I should be scum reading, that's why. Nothing popped out, though. Town lean.
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Post Post #406  (isolation #20)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:14 pm

@ProFlavor Your game so far consists of pushing me for pushing Pintu, and pushing nico for their entrance. I agree with you that they're not the same push

but I think your slot is coasting as either alignment. FL doesn't seem to be playing, and Woof isn't doing much. Can you talk to me about your town read on T&L?
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Post Post #409  (isolation #21)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:22 pm

In post 404, Shoshin the worst wrote:Do you really think there's a decent chance that scum!pintu has sneakily read the thread, sat there and thought about it, and decided to irritate and exposed slot including the duck who he's good at pocketing by making this post, rather than just going in for a softpocket?

Given his scumstyle and the smooth way he presents himself, do you think it would occur to scum!pintu AT ALL to make this post? I feel like its potentially not outside his scumrange, but it'd be a fairly strange evolution of his scumrange.


Okay, good. I thought I had missed something obvious. With respect, I think you're off on this one, mate.

So, I DO think scum!pintu likely tries to pocket town!tw this game, but I don't think this post precludes it. Pintu the person is a smart guy with a sense of humor and a bit of flair so I think it is possible that he would find this sort of light trolling amusing, regardless of alignment, but especially as scum.

Further, what about this post has stopped scum!pintu from being able to pocket you? You don't seem to be scum reading pintu, so I'm not sure why this would be a concern of his. I mean, he unvotes you in the same post.

Lastly, he was posting a "im here will catchup" post that he didn't end up keeping. If this is scum!pintu, and he wasn't intending to catch up last night, then the second half of the post might have been his attempt to send town back into a fruitless discussion for a hot minute while he wastes time.

Whatcha think?
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Post Post #411  (isolation #22)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:25 pm

Someone (brass?) asked me earlier if my town reads was just a list of the top posters

it basically is now, and frankly, I like that. This game feels like a big old town circlej
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Post Post #413  (isolation #23)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:29 pm

In post 412, pinturicchio wrote:Um, pretty weird stance that started from "I'm voting to sort pin", are you scumreading me now or not? 'Cause I already caught up, URAP2.

-Turicchio

Hi Pin,
TW asked me if scum!you would ever make that post. I answered that yes, I think scum!you could make that post. At no point did I make any argument that the post was outside of your town range.

And I know that you walled me. I'm digesting it, and I fully expect to engage with you about it and other fun topics. I hope you don't mind waiting a bit?
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Post Post #420  (isolation #24)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:38 pm

TW, you asked me to analyze a very thin iso, and then a very thin post. I know that you and I both think there is value in taking close looks at otherwise inconsequential posts, and I gave you a full faith effort for precisely that reason. It's pretty sneaky to then turn around and read my response to that thought experiment as if I claimed those thoughts were engraved on stone slabs from god.

p.edit
I voted him over those others because I think I can read Pintu, so him moreso than those others I want to play.

I'm still voting him because I'm working through both my read of his big catchup and how I want to approach the slot.

Damn can a person get some space to play

I'm not asking for much time. I'll be on it this afternoon here. let it breathe
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Post Post #425  (isolation #25)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:01 pm

In post 424, Shoshin the worst wrote:Having someone give an elaborate explanation of something pretty simple often gives more insight into mindset, than having them quickly summarise something quite a lot lengthier.

Right, and I gave you everything i could think of on it to give you the best chance of making a read. I'm just saying treat my answer in the same good faith, charitable manner that I acted in when responding to it.
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Post Post #428  (isolation #26)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm

okay, Pintu

I think Pintu's read on Varsoon is fine. Easily in both pintu ranges.

Pintu's case on me boils down to fence sitting and jumping off the stw wagon.

Fine. I've been unsure of myself all game due to hydras, experience between other players, etc. And I did get off STW's wagon. That's a fact.

What I've been digesting is the all-encompassing nature of Pin's read. Consider first the unvote:

In post 388, pinturicchio wrote:So in case STW is scum, URAP2's unvote means "oh shit this got way too dangerous", and if STW is town, then URAP2's unvote means "oh shit this got way too dangerous". Perfect.


Pin sees my action as scummy in relation to the flip regardless of which way the flip goes.

And second,
Spoiler: spoiled for space
In post 388, pinturicchio wrote:URAP2's move is again sketchy, 'cause I assume his vote was not because he's scumreading me, but for pressure so I get here and post. Basically, fencesitting once again: "I'm going to focus on the player who's not playing instead of playing with the rest".



In post 388, pinturicchio wrote:Saying "I'm willing to believe he's disengaged, although his rvs post did seem excited to play" is, then again, fabricating some kind of stance to make his vote on me valid, instead of just saying "nah dawg I got nothing on him I just want to put some pressure on the slot", which would be at least understandable.

Pintu argues in the first quote that if my vote is for pressure it's scummy because it's fence sitting

And in the second quote he argues that if my vote is because of a scum read then that is scummy because it would "at least be understandable" if I "just want to put some pressure on the slot"

Either of these arguments would be less revealing in a vacuum, but in my experience when a player gets to the point that their fos looks scummy from every possible angle, that player is town that has lost their way.

I also don't think I've ever been less than clear about my reasoning for voting pintu, regardless of what some would like to believe. Here is my vote on pintu

In post 217, u r a person 2 wrote:I've also noticed pintu promising a catch up, and I've been watching to see if he was going to follow through. I guess it's been long enough to plop a vote there.

VOTE: Pintu


So that points to pintu town

That same post reads town to me from a basic meta perspective. I've played one game with scum!pintu and zero with town!pintu and he felt reasonable, almost conservative in his stances in a way that contrasts with the certainty and bravado(wordchoice fail) of his catchup

So I don't like the push, and I wouldn't recommend sheeping pintu, but he feels town.

VOTE: unvote
I've gone and found myself with too many town reads, and that was something I was trying to avoid having happen in my early game.

@Pintu How do you feel about T&L? I think that's the next slot for me to revist.
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Post Post #429  (isolation #27)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:45 pm

that wasn't too long, was it? lol
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Post Post #430  (isolation #28)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:45 pm

talking about the amount of time for the post, not the length. ya'll can just read my walls if you want to lynch me
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Post Post #431  (isolation #29)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:56 pm

@pintu You are town reading TW here, and in 1905 you watched me hold out and not claim my cop role when at effectively L-1 with the IC telling me to claim

So why do you think I would be the first to crack on a quick town wagon?
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Post Post #435  (isolation #30)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:47 pm

I have no idea which one of you made the last two posts
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Post Post #446  (isolation #31)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:05 pm

In post 444, pinturicchio wrote:About your long post about me:

- I think you're trying to depict me as crazy ol' Jenkins in order to discredit my scumread on you. You basically talked about how you read me instead of defending yourself about your scummy progression.

- I like Tibor and Lumia, I know pretty well both of them and I usually read them correctly. I think they're town. Gonna ask Pin what he thinks but I'm pretty sure he'll say town too.

-Turicchio


Nah, I'm not trying to discredit your scumread, Mr. Jenkins. Well, I kind of am. I think you have to pick a side. If the wagon analysis looks scummy regardless of the flip, then really what's the point of the analysis? You're basically saying that it's universally scummy to jump off of a quick wagon, and that's obviously nonsense.

Pick a side; we're at war. ;P

And yes, I am fundamentally more interested in reading you than on defending myself.

Thanks for the T&L read. What about Taly?
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Post Post #511  (isolation #32)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:24 pm

Oh it's a role! I was very confused what ya'll were talking about
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Post Post #522  (isolation #33)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:56 pm

@stw I thought you were done with this synchronized hydra nonsense but in retrospect you were just not signing and I was just inferring who was authoring the posts.

This is still scummy

also, I've given enough thought process that I think town!tw has a town read on me here at least 50% of the time

VOTE: shoshin the worst
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Post Post #524  (isolation #34)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:04 pm

In post 498, ProFlavor wrote:someone said something about FL coasting a bit - he always does that. He invited me to hydra with him so I was kinda thinking I'd let him lead proceedings but he is never going to be as active as I am so that approach probably wont help.

I recall someone asking me about my T&L read- its not an amazing read really - BH & GE are both players I approach by saying they are town until they do something scummy because I mostly just don't get any vibe from what they say - I often play with him and people in the player list will be like 'oh gamma/BH is def scum' and I'm just sat here like "am I stupid i do not get that?!"
...but, for example in overkill 2, gamma was obviously defending a scum player so it was obviously AI and led to me copping him.

I'm not sure how far behind as I've skimmed most of the thread but I'll be reading tonight i think.

yeah, i asked those questions, the guy who you are voting for. =P

Do you have any town reads that you are feeling confident in? Taly, maybe?
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Post Post #527  (isolation #35)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:23 pm

In post 526, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 522, u r a person 2 wrote:@stw I thought you were done with this synchronized hydra nonsense but in retrospect you were just not signing and I was just inferring who was authoring the posts.

This is still scummy

also, I've given enough thought process that I think town!tw has a town read on me here at least 50% of the time

VOTE: shoshin the worst


Like, you’re only upset about this now?

And the 50% thing, say whaaaat???


line 1, please refer to my iso

line 2, he modded a game with me where he followed along with a PT i wrote ~60 thought process posts about the game. We've also had a light amount of conversation about playing. I think he gets to a town read on me here at least half the time.
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Post Post #531  (isolation #36)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:34 pm

In post 529, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 372, u r a person 2 wrote:my town leans right now are
STW -tone,play I think TW is trying to use his experience modding and playing with me to read me and that's why he's asking me for my thoughts about specific posts.

I found this in your ISO, your progression from this to your latest read there seems highly unnatural.
Did you just notice that you were inferring who was authoring them? You had nothing to say when their (lack of) signing was a talking point of the game?

~Detective Michael Scarn


I called them scummy for it early in this game when people were talking about it.

Then they stopped signing, but I could tell who was writing and I kind of felt that was their compromise, if that makes sense.

I don't understand why you think it is unnatural? I was expecting TW to want to see thought process in order to read me precisely because of our prior experience, so at the time that checked out. Now, having given him something to work with, Ithink it's likely that he finds a town read on me if he is town.

p.edit The other half of what? I'm not following, Mephisto
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Post Post #535  (isolation #37)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:45 pm

In post 533, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:If tw tr you only 50% of the time, then he sr you the other 50%, correct?

So, if that is the case, why is him not tr you here, scummy?


at least half the time, not exactly half, but yes

It's a probability thing. Obviously I don't know exact probabilities, so there is a feel component but here's the basic idea

Let's say I think this hydra signing stuff comes from town!TW only 25% of the time, and I think town!TW get's a scum read on me 40% of the time. The chance of town!TW doing both of these things is (1/4)(4/10)=1/10=10%

This isn't a perfect model, of course, and I don't assign actual values to these when I make the assessment.

All of this is a long winded way of saying that the more things someone does that are less likely to come from town than scum, the more scummy they are
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Post Post #552  (isolation #38)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:47 pm

In post 544, Shoshin the worst wrote:Vars I'm finding it really worrying that you have never stopped to reconsider this read and mystically see no town motivation whatsoever in out iso. This is the kind of read day one which I identify as absolutely fake, I'm just not sure which alignment it comes from with you.

We've definitely towntold a few times in our iso. You've found nothing AT ALL which you think is towny and you're 80% sure we're scum who's just decided to put our pants on our head after rolling SCM1 and play like messy newbscum?

I think you're ignoring the differences in our play and possibly overcompensating for how badly SCM1 went when you disappeared.

could you sign this particular post, please?

because if it is real and you are town, I don't want to be hanged on the last read of Shoshin alone
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Post Post #555  (isolation #39)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:48 pm

Spoiler: sorry i meant to quote this post
In post 549, Shoshin the worst wrote:Just in case that dayvig is real, because Vars' play here is so tacky it could be either.

{STW}
{Nancy}
{Michael, Varsoon, Alchemist}
{AlmostChara, ProFlavor}
{Nico, Mewtaph, tibor and lumia, Kokichi}
{pinturicchio, URAP2}

Michael is probably teetering on dropping a tier from this conversation. But I'm not sure on this yet.

This game is horrible to sort. I think there's probably one scum in pint/urap2 but haven't got around to completely parsing it yet. I don't feel confident on Michael/Vars town but I do feel slightly more confident on Alch town. AC/PF wouldn't surprise me if they flipped scum I just think its marginally less likely than those below.

Too many people not doing much. Too much focus on a handful of slots.
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Post Post #561  (isolation #40)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:54 pm

In post 554, Varsoon wrote:the kinda unlikable name

I'd be hurt, but I probably killed this npc 100 times. helps dull the pain ;P

Spoiler:
Image
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Post Post #565  (isolation #41)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:58 pm

In post 560, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 522, u r a person 2 wrote:@stw I thought you were done with this synchronized hydra nonsense but in retrospect you were just not signing and I was just inferring who was authoring the posts.

This is still scummy

also, I've given enough thought process that I think town!tw has a town read on me here at least 50% of the time

VOTE: shoshin the worst

Why did I pause my catchup.....

URAP2, point me in the direction of where to look for towniness in your ISO?


I'm not going to point you to specific things because I'm not into self meta

But everything from me asking for people to wagon me until now is a good start
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Post Post #573  (isolation #42)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:04 pm

In post 564, Shoshin the worst wrote:Why do you think town!tw townreads you here? Specifics please
Why do you think scum!tw doesn't townread you?

The first is a read on TW's skill level that takes into account his experience with me. It's not a prelude to self meta analysis

I think scum!tw certainly can town read me, and would do that some % of the time. I don't think scum!tw is terribly worried about pocketing me in this player set. I don't know what they are, but there are certainly past experiences between him and others that would have him prioritizing others. Part of that , or any other scum!strat that tw employs could involve not town reading me. Saying that I expect town!tw to town read me here does not insinuate that I think scum!tw scum reads me 100% of the time
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Post Post #583  (isolation #43)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:19 pm

okay, i really don't like doing self meta, but you seem to be insisting

You seem to be reading me with a burden of proficiency when you, having watched and played with me should know that my early reads have been consistently awful.

I town read pintu out of the gate in 1907, didn't scum read yyotta
I scum read cheeky, and pvturist

In 1907 I townread urist before I pushed him, and then I prepared to jump off that wagon after getting reactions (evidence in pt)
I also town read FC for most of day 1

I scum read Elements for an error that was proven unmeaningful and I don't remember my other scum reads

In 1909 my d1 reads were good but basically because I town read teacher and just sort of sheeped him the rest of the way.

Where you should be burden of proficiency reading me, and where your vision of me comes from is post flip reads


I still don't want to go into details about this game in particular, just put this game up against the 1905 pt and find the read.
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Post Post #585  (isolation #44)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:34 pm

In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I don't understand why you think there's no town motivation in our slot pushing/scumreading you. It's pretty simple. We scumread you.
The fact you can't engage with me about why we shouldn't scumread you or should townread you had me baffled.


I believe that there can be a town motivation for scumreading me. I didn't say town!you town!reads me 100%

We can post game why I'm not into reading myself in the thread. It basically boils down to the wifom/not wifom discussion you're in the middle of and my having no interest in having those types of discussions
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Post Post #589  (isolation #45)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:40 pm

What I mean by bop is not that the reads are right or wrong necessarily, just that you seem to be setting a high bar, or bop, asking me to analyse what is a fairly nai post and wanting me to come up with the conclusion you had in mind. It feels like a trap, and it especially feels that way considering all of our history includes me coming up with bad reasons for reads early

Whatever. How about talking to me about Taly?

I'm starting to get this feeling that he came into the thread, made that play to get town cred, and is now coasting on that
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Post Post #590  (isolation #46)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:43 pm

In post 588, Shoshin the worst wrote:The problem we're having here is that you kicked off this rabbit hole discussion by voting us because you believe town!tw should be townreading you, plus the hydra dynamic which for the umpteenth time should not be deemed alignment indicative.

I'm trying to parse how you came to the conclusion that it's scum indicative for us to be scumreading you and pushing you just because the worst and you have history. I still do not understand your rationale here.

If you think TW should >rand be townreading you, we definitely need a better metric against which to measure your towntells, because it means what we are doing at the moment is on the wrong track.

This conversation is pretty important. If you do need to back out of it for holistic playstyle/meta reasons we understand but also please try to see that from our perspective, that leaves you joining out wagon late into its formation for almost exactly no reason...


Am I not talking to TW right now? This is why this signing thing is annoying and scummy.

I think I'm vote number 2 on you. I'm starting this wagon, not coming on late.

I think the most productive direction for me, and probably for town!you as well is for us to move on to a different topic.
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Post Post #594  (isolation #47)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:48 pm

I was just venting frustration there, apologies. If we're going to cooperate at all, we're going to have to agree to disagree on whether that is scummy because you're right that we shouldn't spend more time discussing it.
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Post Post #599  (isolation #48)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:55 pm

ProFlavor's game is remarkably light.
They are scum reading one person for lurking, me for voting a lurker, and T&L because they always town read them early, as far as I can recall.

They also have a bunch of naked town reads. Currently trying to engage that slot, but I don't have any reason to town read them

I'm still reading almost chara as town. They had that lynch pool early and I could understand the worldview they were living in to have that pool. Since then they have not stood out much to me, which means nothing pinged me.

Alchemist, I am currently sheeping a town read on. He's on the list to dig into. I'm sure you can see that I've been slowly hopping from one slot to the next
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Post Post #604  (isolation #49)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:14 pm

Taly, if you're looking for post inspiration, you could take a stand on any or every slot of {my wagon, me} <3
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Post Post #610  (isolation #50)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:33 pm

@STW sorry, i thought it was implied, but would you like to give me your thoughts on those three slots you asked about?
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Post Post #621  (isolation #51)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:12 pm

i dunno i've come up with half a dozen things that would work as a day vig

don't want to speculate tho
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Post Post #623  (isolation #52)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:24 pm

well if it's real and it doesn't end the day, I guess I need to find a new place to vote
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Post Post #626  (isolation #53)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:29 pm

i don't understand, tho

do people really not ask for claims before vig shooting someone? this seems like not good but i dont want to judge
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Post Post #630  (isolation #54)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:40 pm

In post 628, Varsoon wrote:You really think STW would've claimed before getting shot?

P-EDIT:
I'm 100%

-V

That depends on a lot of things, mainly how vigs and other similar roles are treated in a more meta sense on this site

I'm really just trying to ascertain if not asking for a claim or the sudden nature of your action is unusual, or standard so I can better understand the reactions of others to it
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Post Post #635  (isolation #55)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:56 pm

@STW if it's fake, I dunno who we vote but the slots im most interested in hearing more from and sorting are taly, T&L, proflavor, and the less than active slots
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Post Post #639  (isolation #56)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:43 pm

okay, let's see how this goes

VOTE: Tibor and Lumia
your tw read is a fine place to start. can't wait to hear what you've got after you get your answer
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Post Post #642  (isolation #57)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:32 pm

do you believe stw and I are svs or is your scum read on me independent of your stw read?
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Post Post #651  (isolation #58)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:42 pm

if not with him, how about engaging with me?
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Post Post #655  (isolation #59)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:45 pm

In post 652, Tibor and Lumia wrote:You're town reading the slot, to my knowledge, how can that be svs?

-B

i'm not town reading stw if that's what you're saying

but also I think we're having a miscommunication.

You said that TW is scum and you voted me.

I'm asking if TW and me being svs is consistent with your current worldview, or if your scum read on me is entirely independent of your scum read on him.
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Post Post #662  (isolation #60)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:02 pm

How is pushing a null read on day one scummy, exactly?
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Post Post #665  (isolation #61)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:12 pm

I don't know if it's playstyle or what, but D1 seems to me to be exactly the right time to dig into your null reads

There's still sorting to be done!

Do you have a read on Taly?
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Post Post #669  (isolation #62)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:22 pm

That's frustrating, but I respect your process.

I guess TW is no longer null on you

I wish I had gotten such a strong feeling.

Help a person build their brass read. what did you see?
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Post Post #718  (isolation #63)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:29 pm

In post 671, Shoshin the worst wrote:The reactionary confusion and bite was very very town!brass. good tone and I think the pace of it pushes on being outside brass' scumrange.

His immediate "ok lol well you're vigged and probably scum and here's why so I'm gonna lynch someone else" was towny as hell especially from him. I also don't think that comment wrt TW misreading him which is completely inconsistent with play history comes from scum who's scheming our mislynch.


If TW is town, brass is probably town because tw has a strong read and a history of accuracy

If TW is scum, I think his choice of brass to push and then town read while under the shadow of Varsoon's play probably spews brass town

Either way

UNVOTE:

I apologize if I'm newbing up the thread, but I don't know heads from tails when it comes to Varsoon's vig claim. I know to some of you it seems obvious, and I'll try to make sense of it tomorrow.
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Post Post #727  (isolation #64)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:40 pm

I sincerely doubt that the mod would be so... trolly

but in starcraft 1 there is a high ground advantage mechanic

where units firing up hill have a roughly 50% chance to miss

and stw is above you in the player list ;P
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Post Post #735  (isolation #65)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:41 pm

Tibor vote happened this way:

STW offered a chance to cooperate when they asked who we should vote for
I gave them a list of slots I was interested in getting more from
STW picked T&L
So that's where I voted.
It wasn't a scum read. I wasn't going to turn down the opportunity STW presented pretty much regardless of whom they picked.

Having had the opportunity to cooperate with STW like that, my gut likes them more, but I'm going to go back through the whole exchange tomorrow to see what fresh eyes can glean.
It was also fruitful in that I like my T&L read more now.

I understand if it seems weird, but you should check out some of my games. A great example would be between CheekyTeeky and myself in newbie 1905. Very similar trajectory. We tunneled one another, and then we just sort of started cooperating and it was good.
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Post Post #854  (isolation #66)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:14 am

In post 843, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 599, u r a person 2 wrote:ProFlavor's game is remarkably light. They are scum reading one person for lurking, me for voting a lurker, and T&L because they always town read them early, as far as I can recall.They also have a bunch of naked town reads. Currently trying to engage that slot, but I don't have any reason to town read them

interestingly phrased, are you saying you don't town read therefore it's null or are you saying you don't town read me therefore you scum read ?

yes, both? I've got a lot of town reads and next to zero scum reads so my thinking is in poe mode if that makes sense.
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Post Post #868  (isolation #67)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:54 pm

In post 855, Varsoon wrote:What are your reads, URAP2?
Care to share who you are PoE'ing through and why?
I've been just kinda glossing your recent posts, so if there's answers there, sorry.
Feed it to me

-V

lots out of game on my plate today. haven't read over yesterday yet. this is where im at right now. I'm also interested in taly as I continue doing a round of looking at my town reads.

1. Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) town
2. Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) ???
3. Mewtaph ???
4. u r a person 2 hey, that's me
5. AlmostChara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) town
6. Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) town
7. pinturucchio town
8. nicorobin ???
9. ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) ???
10. Kokichi Oma ???
11. Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) town
12. alchemist21 town
13. Taly town
14. Varsoon town
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Post Post #869  (isolation #68)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:59 pm

oh and i think someone asked me if im an alt, im not
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Post Post #893  (isolation #69)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:43 pm

VOTE: nico
i dont think it's l-1 but count before you vote
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Post Post #900  (isolation #70)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:12 pm

i counted it twice but there are a lot of pages since the last vc
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Post Post #904  (isolation #71)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:27 pm

I could see how you would take it that way
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Post Post #906  (isolation #72)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:31 pm

damn my counts were l-2 and l-4, respectively
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Post Post #909  (isolation #73)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:37 pm

this thread direction has me very concerned
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Post Post #911  (isolation #74)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:38 pm

we've devolved into vapid conversation
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Post Post #917  (isolation #75)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:42 pm

Let's see who can keep this up the longest while still being understood very clearly
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Post Post #918  (isolation #76)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:43 pm

I have every post ending through day 3 planned out already like bobby f playing vintage chess
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Post Post #921  (isolation #77)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:49 pm

considering your first initial, im not sure you want this post restriction happening during vote consideration
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Post Post #964  (isolation #78)  » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:40 am

In post 928, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 868, u r a person 2 wrote:7. pinturucchio town


While I'm not ready to go all-in on pintu, this is the only read on your list I need to request an explanation for. Thank you.

~A50

I thought he was tunneling on me really hard (there's a big post in my iso all about this read you should look at, says pintu right at the top) in a way that I've seen town do far more often than not. Since then he hasn't really tunneled me which mitigates that read, but at the same time I haven't seen anything to give me an active scum read, so still town
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Post Post #966  (isolation #79)  » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:46 am

In post 931, Almost Chara wrote:Oh, and also much respect to UR2 for redeeming himself in my eyes. I would be first to acknowledge I'm stubborn and it's hard to change my mind on someone I SR early on (unless there was a mechanical reason to change that read), so UR2 managing to do just that without a mechanical reason is impressive.

golly thanks for the shout out <3

In post 960, Tibor and Lumia wrote:Why are you assigning rigid probabilities to things anyways?
-A very tired Emerald, who is probably gonna stop for the night.

I say right in the post that I don't assign numerical values. example was just for explanation. =)
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Post Post #985  (isolation #80)  » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:41 am

In post 965, Mewtaph wrote:I thought ignoring u r a person 2's self-referential call for a wagon on himself by means of a vote over interaction was scummy. There is a part of me that thinks that scum would be looking for something to do outside of STW's wagon after it dissolved.

could you please reword this? I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying here.
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Post Post #1072  (isolation #81)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:29 am

@taly
a bunch of people were voting nico and I figured maybe it could lead to a sort. It was not a productive use of time

miserably sick this past day. hoping it will get better from here. will play tomorrow
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Post Post #1113  (isolation #82)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:51 am

In post 889, pinturicchio wrote:URAP2 has townied it up a lot since my first pushing attempt, and I'm not as convinced as I was before; however, I still see some inconsistencies and I can't let go the things I pointed out before about him.

@taly i thought pintu had unvoted me, but i guess not.

remembering that what he pointed out was that i jumped off an early wagon on a town read of his, and noting the "has townied it up a lot" word choice, it's odd

it could be pintu scum, but scum!pintu seemed more in tune with the player base last game i played. i dont understand the strat he has here, and i think scum!pintu has a plan
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Post Post #1119  (isolation #83)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:15 pm

i can get behind mew

VOTE: mewtaph
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Post Post #1125  (isolation #84)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:39 pm

Not sure about unfocused, but it doesn't appear to be sound reasoning. I don't see any disconnect between 204 and 297
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Post Post #1245  (isolation #85)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:30 pm

Yikes

I'm not a huge fan of our vote count with 3 days left

I don't want to be presumptuous, but how about people start thinking about what compromise lynch they might be willing to consolidate onto

or make a better case for the vote you've got
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Post Post #1322  (isolation #86)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:40 pm

This is messing with my read because I'm not sure if this is some sort of gambit or if you sincerely misunderstand the logic. Make no mistake, Alchemist's logic is fine in these two posts.

Given, Mephisto gives an out to stw

Assert scum wouldn't give an out to town because it doesn't benefit scum to take the pressure off of town
Assert scum wouldn't give an out to scum because they would do it in scum chat

Conclude, mephisto must be town.

I'm not saying that I agree - scum might give an out to town under the right circumstances - but the thought process is consistent between the two posts and, imo, shows generally townie thought processes.

If this makes sense, please tell me how, if at all, it affects your read
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Post Post #1324  (isolation #87)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:54 pm

In post 1323, Varsoon wrote:@URAP2: I think it's actually likelier that scum makes up excuses for someone than not, but my head's on wrong.


I could see an argument for this. Mew argued that the thinking in these posts is inconsistent, which implicates scum!alch. Regardless of whether Alch's assertions are valid, the thinking is consistent, and I'm interested to see if anything changes in Mew's analysis after seeing that.
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Post Post #1330  (isolation #88)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:07 pm

In post 1327, Almost Chara wrote:i finally, finally, understand what Mewtaph is saying about Alchemist with respect to those two posts.
i think there have been some issues with word choice/communication that have made something simple seem a lot more complicated than it was.

i'm agreeing with the Mewtaph townread, though it's not that strong. don't feel like lynching him today. my reasons are essentially the same as Varsoon's.
~Chara

Could you explain it to me please?
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Post Post #1380  (isolation #89)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:56 pm

In post 1376, Shoshin the worst wrote:I get where he's coming from wrt Alchemist but I'm still not sure where he sees scum!Alchemist. There's too much "matching reasons to conclusion" energy. Am I biased or is it genuinely pretty abstract?


It feels convoluted to me in a way that makes me think either it's fake, or mewtaph is playing a significantly higher level game than I am.

So if a bunch of people would describe mewtaph as usually having inspired reads, I'd reconsider

but it's probably fake.
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Post Post #1396  (isolation #90)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:58 pm

In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?
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Post Post #1406  (isolation #91)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:09 pm

In post 1400, ProFlavor wrote:You can think it, but I have plenty of reasons that prove that you are the wrong town.

Explain it to me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

I was really just trying to ascertain if keeping a mewtaph vote rn would require me to 1v1 you

because I'm getting a strong feeling that I don't want to do that.

Question, though

When you roll scum, how often does a scum get lynched d1? more or equal to never?
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Post Post #1418  (isolation #92)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:25 pm

In post 1409, ProFlavor wrote:I just really don’t feel like Mewtaph has really done anything that’s overly scummy, I feel I’ve given a plenty solid reasoning for why he is most likely town, so any votes on Mewtaph right now I would feel are being done politically.
"
I agree that he hasn't done anything dramatically scummy, but I'm also not convinced on stw scum, and I am the people who jumped onto mew's wagon, so the wagon analysis in defense of mew doesn't really sway me either.

so then, to my understanding, the town case on him is that his one well flushed out read, which contradicts my own read on alch, is too complex to come from scum!mew

and in a game where I've got enough town reads to fill a boat, that just ain't doin' it.

my head hurts, i'll come back to it in the morning.
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Post Post #1561  (isolation #93)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:59 pm

In post 1547, Krazy wrote:Mine

In post 1548, Krazy wrote:More

In post 1549, Krazy wrote:Minerals


Could you please spam these posts 24/7?

It would really help create an immersive starcraft experience
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Post Post #1562  (isolation #94)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:01 pm

In post 1550, Krazy wrote:
Votecount 1.14
Shoshin the worst(4) ~ (170), (45), (128), (17)
Mewtaph(3) ~ (71), (293), (93)
pinturicchio(2) ~ (109), (116)
jjh927(2) ~ (65), (111)
u r a person 2(1) ~ (45)
Kokichi Oma(1) ~ (238)


Not Voting (1): (11)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-17 04:00:38)


MOD REMINDERSpinturicchio needs a prod. The last post was at: 1/12/2019 9:31:00 PM which was 2 days 19 hours 21 minutes 16 seconds ago. -- might be on health V/LA
Taly needs a prod. The last post was at: 1/12/2019 6:04:00 PM which was 2 days 22 hours 48 minutes 16 seconds ago.

FLAVOR
Spoiler:

I'd jump to a pintu wagon if it started forming

I don't want a stw lynch today
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Post Post #1563  (isolation #95)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:01 pm

oops quote =/
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Post Post #1566  (isolation #96)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:02 am

In post 1564, Mewtaph wrote:Why do you even want a pintu wagon other than he's not present in the thread?

I'm doing my best not to let his absence change my read

but my reads elsewhere have evolved, mainly on stw, proflavor and strengthening of a couple town reads

and pintu's scum equity has increased as a consequence

why do you seem hostile to the idea of moving the wagon off of you and onto someone else?
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Post Post #1567  (isolation #97)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:03 am

or is it you don't want pintu as a competing wagon?
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Post Post #1569  (isolation #98)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:06 am

lol, I don't want to put you out or anything

but yeah, I'd take answers
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Post Post #1572  (isolation #99)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:16 am

In post 428, u r a person 2 wrote:okay, Pintu

I think Pintu's read on Varsoon is fine. Easily in both pintu ranges.

Pintu's case on me boils down to fence sitting and jumping off the stw wagon.

Fine. I've been unsure of myself all game due to hydras, experience between other players, etc. And I did get off STW's wagon. That's a fact.

What I've been digesting is the all-encompassing nature of Pin's read. Consider first the unvote:

In post 388, pinturicchio wrote:So in case STW is scum, URAP2's unvote means "oh shit this got way too dangerous", and if STW is town, then URAP2's unvote means "oh shit this got way too dangerous". Perfect.


Pin sees my action as scummy in relation to the flip regardless of which way the flip goes.

And second,
Spoiler: spoiled for space
In post 388, pinturicchio wrote:URAP2's move is again sketchy, 'cause I assume his vote was not because he's scumreading me, but for pressure so I get here and post. Basically, fencesitting once again: "I'm going to focus on the player who's not playing instead of playing with the rest".



In post 388, pinturicchio wrote:Saying "I'm willing to believe he's disengaged, although his rvs post did seem excited to play" is, then again, fabricating some kind of stance to make his vote on me valid, instead of just saying "nah dawg I got nothing on him I just want to put some pressure on the slot", which would be at least understandable.

Pintu argues in the first quote that if my vote is for pressure it's scummy because it's fence sitting

And in the second quote he argues that if my vote is because of a scum read then that is scummy because it would "at least be understandable" if I "just want to put some pressure on the slot"

Either of these arguments would be less revealing in a vacuum, but in my experience when a player gets to the point that their fos looks scummy from every possible angle, that player is town that has lost their way.

I also don't think I've ever been less than clear about my reasoning for voting pintu, regardless of what some would like to believe. Here is my vote on pintu

In post 217, u r a person 2 wrote:I've also noticed pintu promising a catch up, and I've been watching to see if he was going to follow through. I guess it's been long enough to plop a vote there.

VOTE: Pintu


So that points to pintu town

That same post reads town to me from a basic meta perspective. I've played one game with scum!pintu and zero with town!pintu and he felt reasonable, almost conservative in his stances in a way that contrasts with the certainty and bravado(wordchoice fail) of his catchup

So I don't like the push, and I wouldn't recommend sheeping pintu, but he feels town.

VOTE: unvote
I've gone and found myself with too many town reads, and that was something I was trying to avoid having happen in my early game.

@Pintu How do you feel about T&L? I think that's the next slot for me to revist.

In post 964, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 928, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 868, u r a person 2 wrote:7. pinturucchio town


While I'm not ready to go all-in on pintu, this is the only read on your list I need to request an explanation for. Thank you.

~A50

I thought he was tunneling on me really hard (there's a big post in my iso all about this read you should look at, says pintu right at the top) in a way that I've seen town do far more often than not. Since then he hasn't really tunneled me which mitigates that read, but at the same time I haven't seen anything to give me an active scum read, so still town

In post 1113, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 889, pinturicchio wrote:URAP2 has townied it up a lot since my first pushing attempt, and I'm not as convinced as I was before; however, I still see some inconsistencies and I can't let go the things I pointed out before about him.

@taly i thought pintu had unvoted me, but i guess not.

remembering that what he pointed out was that i jumped off an early wagon on a town read of his, and noting the "has townied it up a lot" word choice, it's odd

it could be pintu scum, but scum!pintu seemed more in tune with the player base last game i played. i dont understand the strat he has here, and i think scum!pintu has a plan


As you can see, I've been somewhat ambivalent for quite some time. There were also a couple of posts by others about scum!pintu that I've come to consider more persuasive over time.

Also what I said in the post you just quoted.

p.edit patience, young one
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Post Post #1575  (isolation #100)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:50 am

@mewtaph what are your thoughts on pintu
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Post Post #1576  (isolation #101)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:53 am

nm found it. did you ever lay out a case for stw being scum? skimming i just saw your vote and "die"
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Post Post #1578  (isolation #102)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am

okay
i'll be back before deadline
and this feels like bad form kinda
but i dont think we've got a wagon on scum atm so maybe this will get traction

VOTE: pinturicchio
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Post Post #1825  (isolation #103)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:01 pm

just caught up

VOTE: kochiki
best flip on option
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Post Post #1852  (isolation #104)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:44 pm

In post 1846, Almost Chara wrote:i'm liking both pint's catchup and his timing (especially the timing) a lot.

i was thinking the same thing
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Post Post #1864  (isolation #105)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:02 pm

In post 1855, ProFlavor wrote:Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) - would
Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) - nah
Varsoon nah
Almost Chara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) nah
Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) would
Kokichi Oma - nah
Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) nah
jjh927 nicorobin - reluctantly if we have to
Mewtaph - if FL wants to
alchemist21 - probably not
ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) - hallelujah
u r a person 2 - if FL wants to
pinturicchio nah
Taly nah


I don't understand why you phrased it this way for my slot and mew's slot specifically. It's not hydra dissonance in the way that I normally understand it, where you two disagree. It's dissonance in the sense that it seems unaware of - or at least it fails to incorporate - FL's repeated pronouncements that mewtaph is town and that I am town.

Am I reading something into nothing? Was there a thought process you had that made it make sense?
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Post Post #1866  (isolation #106)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:05 pm

yes i do
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Post Post #1874  (isolation #107)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:13 pm

In post 1870, ProFlavor wrote:I scum read you early on but there was a lot of town reads heading your way which I don’t really understand so I just assume I m being slow

Therefore if FL has a strong scum read on you then he can vote because I’m not confident in any read bar STW tbh


I'm trying to understand what info you were trying to convey to the rest of the players. Do you think there is much chance of FL finding a scum read on mew or me in the next few hours?
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Post Post #1876  (isolation #108)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:14 pm

STW, I'm just asking questions atm, mate. I don't mind if you share, but you don't have to.
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Post Post #1883  (isolation #109)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:25 pm

In post 1874, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1870, ProFlavor wrote:I scum read you early on but there was a lot of town reads heading your way which I don’t really understand so I just assume I m being slow

Therefore if FL has a strong scum read on you then he can vote because I’m not confident in any read bar STW tbh


I'm trying to understand what info you were trying to convey to the rest of the players. Do you think there is much chance of FL finding a scum read on mew or me in the next few hours?


@pro

Above in case you missed it, but also, who is this more vocal player directing us? Are you talking about MS? Why this "I think the invisible hand directs us all" vibe?
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Post Post #2029  (isolation #110)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:49 pm

my vote definitely wasn't on jjh927, so that's wrong. it was on kokichi.

but I'm going to move it here anyway. we need a lynch and I don't want stw

VOTE: proflavor
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Post Post #2034  (isolation #111)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:56 pm

In post 2032, Varsoon wrote:@URAP2: Proflavor, by my count, only has 4 people who have vocalized support for the wagon. It's not going to happen within 8 hours. Put your vote to better use.

It def won't happen if I don't try ;P
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Post Post #2037  (isolation #112)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:58 pm

@creature

You seem like an agreeable chap who hasn't read the game yet. How about lynching proflavor blind?
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Post Post #2179  (isolation #113)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:41 pm

I'm driving and like a million pages behind. What are the vote counts on the wagons?
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Post Post #2304  (isolation #114)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:19 pm

I believe this claim. I think I know your flavor
VOTE: stw
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Post Post #2375  (isolation #115)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:59 am

okay, one thing that we know mechanically is that movement speed in this game does not correspond to movement speed in starcraft.

Case in point: STW's zergling moves 2 spaces per turn. Ari/Nancy's overlord moves 3 spaces per turn

In starcraft, zerglings have a movement speed of 2.9531, and overlords have a movement speed of only 0.586.

Which is too bad because a couple people fly around the playerlist but I couldn't mechanically put them on a range as a result.
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Post Post #2376  (isolation #116)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:01 pm

sorry, source:
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Speed

this is for sc2, but overlords are slower than zerglings in sc1, too
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Post Post #2387  (isolation #117)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:29 pm

I don't have experience with many roles. Does a role that can block a day-vig shot seem realistic? Is there a similar role that someone could point me to?
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Post Post #2391  (isolation #118)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:07 pm

the scum in the way thing doesn't make sense thematically.

attacks are all targeted or aoe, and units don't take bullets for other units

and it doesn't make sense from a zerg vig flavor that can only hit town

i'd be more inclined to think any blocked shot was the result of another activated day ability. like activating a forcefield, picking a unit up into a shuttle, or healing them with a medic
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Post Post #2395  (isolation #119)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:50 pm

right, but he wasn't protoss
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Post Post #2396  (isolation #120)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:54 pm

and he didn't burrow or get in a bunker

and none of the others are just passive blocking via being in the way

im just saying i don't think we should get too committed to the idea that scum or a certain town role in the middle of varsoon and his shot is what affected or will affect it
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Post Post #2399  (isolation #121)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:14 pm

being closer i'll agree with. there could be a range limit.

otherwise i think position (and thus movement) is probably required for aoe activated abilities
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Post Post #2400  (isolation #122)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:24 pm

now, varsoon, talking about protoss shields

something like a protoss sentry, which has the activated force field ability that protects units within the bubble around it.

that might be the type of thing that protected stw, but wouldn't necessarily have to be between you and stw. If MS were a protoss sentry, that could account for it

As for reading you - I'm having a very difficult time coming up with a scum!motivation for claiming your failed shot was a red at eod like that. I think the suspicion you've gotten as a result today was predictable and unavoidable. So like AC, I'm town locking you. So let's try to reason this out as best we can
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Post Post #2402  (isolation #123)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:39 pm

How I got to my read on you isn't really the part I wanted to work with you on.

Mewtaph and MS were next to STW when your shot failed. If there are range limitations on abilities, or if some abilities are point blank aoe like a toss sentry, I think you should shoot away from those two.

so i think i agree with chara, kokichi would be a good shot
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Post Post #2404  (isolation #124)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:43 pm

forget that jazz

there is too much for town to gain by conducting your shot transparently

don't go anti-town rogue vig on us
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Post Post #2405  (isolation #125)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:44 pm

again
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Post Post #2410  (isolation #126)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:19 pm

my lynch pool right now looks like kokichi, pintu, T&L, creature, JJ

and I have plans to go back and evaluate mew and PF

Understand that this is prior to my going back and fully reading the last 10ish pages of D1, which to this point I have read only parts of.

You'll be getting more informed reads from me tomorrow evening. I'm sharing this with you now because you asked.
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Post Post #2422  (isolation #127)  » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:21 pm

In post 2146, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1996, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1943, pinturicchio wrote:I'm at page 53. Mew's reaction to his wagon was great. How he approached Nancy is exactly how I'm feeling right now: she just defends her townreads by attacking whoever is scumreading them. Flavor's reaction to Mew's wagon is townie as hell too, but I already said this. I don't see any scum intention on how Pro unvoted unless both Mew and Flavor are scum ---> Mew is apparently town because of his reaction ---> both are town, which is much more likely than both being scum (thinking that I caught two out of three scum instead of two out of ten towns... My tinfoil hat is not ready for that)


No it wasn’t. Mew’s reaction was horrible and very unlike town!Mew.

Honestly the way Pintu speaks there just seems generally forced. Who calls a reaction great like that?
-Gamma, in the home stretch


I would (I'm sure I have on this site) referred to a reaction as "great"

but I've also been told a number of times that my posts are unnatural or forced, so take that however you'd like lol
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Post Post #2423  (isolation #128)  » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:38 pm

Pinturicchio is town. Look at all the effort put into engaging nancy towards eod. It's not a pocket attempt, or if it was a pocket attempt it went off the rails really hard. And it wasn't a push.

So it's sorting and pintu is town.
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Post Post #2424  (isolation #129)  » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:50 pm

The readlist that ~woof put out at eod still looks scummy.

Gamma pinged me on re read with:
In post 2130, Tibor and Lumia wrote:Through page 74 and haven’t found anything I really wanted to comment on
-Gamma, concern about missing something


I refuse (call it a poly null read) to meta read nico for /replace vs just ghosting a thread

more tomorrow today was loooong
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Post Post #2487  (isolation #130)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:43 pm

i am also good with the kochiki shot

I moved up last night btw. I didn't put much thought into it, but not moving didn't occur to me, so I just moved up.
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Post Post #2489  (isolation #131)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:52 pm

just one
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Post Post #2501  (isolation #132)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:46 pm

I want to clarify the case on creature

His scum meta is to not post, but lately he maybe is posting a little more as scum

so people on his wagon are meta reading him for posting a bit and then not posting?

Do I have that right?
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Post Post #2503  (isolation #133)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:42 pm

In post 2502, pinturicchio wrote:My scumcase is based on Taly and it was not a meta read. I think Chara meta townread Taly

mind pointing me to this?
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Post Post #2504  (isolation #134)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:43 pm

sorry brain farted for a moment there
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Post Post #2506  (isolation #135)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:47 pm

no i found it. for a split second there i forgot creature was taly and yeah. thanks mate
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Post Post #2513  (isolation #136)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:45 pm

L-1
okay lemme dive into this
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Post Post #2516  (isolation #137)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:09 pm

so the marine fire tells me we're playing against terran.

I agree the movement is probably important.

I would be highly amused if one of the scum is a siege tank - when they are in siege mode they can't move - with a movement of 0.

I don't think anyone should stand still tonight

zerg have lurkers, which have a similar mechanic, but siege tanks are more associated with this trait than lurkers, for whatever reason.
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Post Post #2517  (isolation #138)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:13 pm

So i read through taly/creature/pintu's discussion of taly

And I'm not with you pintu on everything you talk about. Like, I wasn't bothered with how he engaged Alchemist, but I did relate with some of what you were talking about with "town read me" quotes

I hate this wagon. This game feels very quiet for the current game state.

But I'm going to but a 24 clock on this wagon anyway and see what happens!

Intent to hammer: Creature
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Post Post #2525  (isolation #139)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:12 pm

maybe varsoon should shoot creature rather than flip
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Post Post #2528  (isolation #140)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:17 pm

In post 2527, Creature wrote:
In post 2525, u r a person 2 wrote:maybe varsoon should shoot creature rather than flip

I think we should target the players who thought wagoning me would be a good idea

bold thinking
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Post Post #2536  (isolation #141)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:29 am

interesting how complacent everything was until the moment creature was at l-1

@mew what's your read on creature?
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Post Post #2538  (isolation #142)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:59 am

In post 2537, Creature wrote:
In post 2536, u r a person 2 wrote:interesting how complacent everything was until the moment creature was at l-1

That should mean something

and what do you think that something is?
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Post Post #2591  (isolation #143)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:29 pm

In post 2590, Almost Chara wrote:Maybe he shouldm but if he misses I'd be lynching both Creature and Mew still. The only benefit to that is if Varsoon hits Creature, confirming him as a townie (a dead one by then though) and I will stop tunneling Mew.

Seriously though, the closer the target is the better because we can tell no one in-between intercepted the shot.

I hear what you're saying, but do we really want a lynch prior to varsoon shooting?

that seems counter-intuitive
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Post Post #2593  (isolation #144)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:34 pm

yeah, exactly. If I remember right T&L, ya'll were thinking a kochiki shot might be good, ya?

pintu, what do you think, creature shot? kochiki shot? tequila shot?
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Post Post #2598  (isolation #145)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:15 pm

yes - didn't jjh promise reads?
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Post Post #2599  (isolation #146)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:17 pm

In post 2492, jjh927 wrote:Will actually catch up today

wru buddy
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Post Post #2604  (isolation #147)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:55 am

I'll play, too. I'm not hammering creature right now because I would like Varsoon to shoot someone first.

VOTE: jjh
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Post Post #2606  (isolation #148)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:19 am

no but i gave intent over a day ago so that's his choice ya know
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Post Post #2622  (isolation #149)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:33 am

In post 2611, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 2606, u r a person 2 wrote:no but i gave intent over a day ago so that's his choice ya know

so are you saying I should hammer?

~woof



I think it would be a good lynch. Are you giving me your vote?
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Post Post #2623  (isolation #150)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:35 am

In post 2608, Varsoon wrote:Also, before people screw things up.
I can't shoot anyone today.


You're giving me agita, lol
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Post Post #2653  (isolation #151)  » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:16 pm

I'd like some catchup from jjh before I hammer
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Post Post #2654  (isolation #152)  » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:33 pm

give em til this evening i guess
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Post Post #2659  (isolation #153)  » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:25 pm

VOTE: creature
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Post Post #3459  (isolation #154)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:52 pm

In post 3456, Varsoon wrote:I was sure of something I was wrong about.
Better to be wrong early instead of wrong late, but I guess that doesn't matter if it's all a loss anyway.

No! Bad Varsoon! Stop fake claiming as town or you'll get spritzed in the face with water!
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Post Post #3470  (isolation #155)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:03 pm

In post 3468, Krazy wrote:Mafia PT is released

can't access =(
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Post Post #3476  (isolation #156)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:10 pm

ty krazy dunno why the link in the other post wasn't working
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Post Post #3491  (isolation #157)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:27 pm

Ughhh Pintu I appreciate the shout outs in the mafia thread about me being able to spot you

but I didn't mate. Like not even close. My biggest scum instinct came from you using surgery to excuse not playing in both of our games

but I still believe you were being truthful about that in both games, and I think I rightly discounted it as part of a read. So I think it would be fine for you to go back to underestimating me in the future.

Well played guys. I didn't scum read alch, either.
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Post Post #3494  (isolation #158)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:31 pm

It's a team game, team loss. Any individual person could have identified and compellingly pushed alch and pint

It didn't happen.
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Post Post #3514  (isolation #159)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:43 pm

which two pages and why
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Post Post #3520  (isolation #160)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:46 pm

I'm looking forward to playing with you in that mini, RC
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Post Post #3523  (isolation #161)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:48 pm

/pre-in starcraft:remastered
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Post Post #3539  (isolation #162)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:24 pm

In post 3535, RadiantCowbells wrote:the reason i pl people who play like pintu did on 127-129 is that you can't let it stand as town and it makes it really easy as scum


You're talking about his push on MS about a supposed scum tell, and then his quick turn around to a Proflavor lynch?

talk me through this a minute more if you have the time
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Post Post #3555  (isolation #163)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:56 pm

am i remembering wrong or did you also have alch (and maybe pint?) as strong towns?
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