Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #1092  (isolation #200)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:50 am

In post 1061, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 381, Varsoon wrote:
In post 367, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Game integrity is also compromised by shitty reads, so there’s that too,


Shitty reads are an inherent part of mafia. Players swapping at the table in long-form play is not a design element of the game.

Anyway.

I heard that the lurk-meta on Nico indicates scum there but I don't really know if that's true or not.

For what it's worth.

Why do you feel the need to specifically ask for justification from people pressurevoting that slot? It's not a vanity wagon. It's a valid pressure wagon on a lurker.

Why do you think there's scum on it?

Why did you miss Varsoon's stance that lurker Nico is scum Nico if you were trying to sort her?


Sorry but you’re kind of misrepping what he said. Re: the bolded but I’m NAI reading that, since it’s right there in his quote.
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Post Post #1093  (isolation #201)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:52 am

In post 1067, Shoshin the worst wrote:Show me a bit more about why you scumread URAP2? Talk to me about why you're voting pintu if you scumread URAP2 and are anti the Nico wagon?
Also waiting to hear why you think lynching lurker-Nico is a bad idea here.


So, it’s MORE than a “pressure vote”?
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Post Post #1094  (isolation #202)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:54 am

In post 1072, u r a person 2 wrote:@taly
a bunch of people were voting nico and I figured maybe it could lead to a sort. It was not a productive use of time

miserably sick this past day. hoping it will get better from here. will play tomorrow


Feel better. :)
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Post Post #1106  (isolation #203)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:27 am

In post 1095, Kokichi Oma wrote:I'm sorry all I just havent been the mafia mood lately. I hope that changes tonight. I'll look into what I missed. Anything anyone wants me to look into?


Help us find teh scums.

In post 1100, Taly wrote:
In post 1097, Taly wrote:I can't tell if the constant miscommunication on my posts is because I just suck at clarifying things for people, or people are actively not trying to understand my POV.


this is probably the biggest reason why ive had issue sorting mephisto and stw for different reasons


I can obviously only speak for myself but yeah, I honestly do find some of your posts, really confusing.
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Post Post #1107  (isolation #204)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:27 am

In post 1102, Taly wrote:*aggressively throws feathers at Ari, Nancy, TW, and Sho*


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post Post #1109  (isolation #205)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:29 am

In post 1104, Taly wrote:
In post 1087, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Why? And Bono and Alchemist are really bad wagons.


who is Bono[/n]?

i want [b]mew
to reply to alchemist before i make a further assessment there


U2 and rotisserie slap chop is ProFlavor.
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Post Post #1111  (isolation #206)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:43 am

In post 965, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 936, Taly wrote:
In post 63, Mewtaph wrote:VOTE: Alchemist21

Considering that this vote hasn't left, was it serious?

Yes. You can take that vote as serious in that I haven't seen any other wagon was compelling enough for me to shift my vote. I don't buy how he's approaching the game state as genuine.

In post 936, Taly wrote:
In post 765, Mewtaph wrote:Hey Gamma, can I ask you a question? Do you think that I should be town reading you this game?

What answer were you expecting here?

It was an open ended question, so I wasn't expecting any answer in particular.

In post 936, Taly wrote:
In post 772, Mewtaph wrote:I like u r a person 2 for town quite a bit actually, and I would be willing to do my first active sort to them, Taly or Varsoon.

I think NicoRobin is a decent point to poke with a stick before deadline rears too close, but is a bad wagon to get going near deadline in case they are really just apathetic!town.

I don't know why pinturrichio keeps pushing their content back repeatedly but it's not a great look.

I didn't like the initial voting on UP2 when I first skimmed through it, the reasons for a scumread there lacked substance (Prompting Michael Scott to explain why he thought UP2's posts were manufactured, that's the vote that most got my attention when it happened.)

I agree a bit on Nico. A lurker lynch won't get anywhere, and I don't trust the fact that everyone is like "where's the scum at"?

:/ I get my vote on Kokichi contradicts the above statement, but I'm working to change this.

Pint pushing content back... not a great look? Or scum-indicative?

I thought ignoring u r a person 2's self-referential call for a wagon on himself by means of a vote over interaction was scummy. There is a part of me that thinks that scum would be looking for something to do outside of STW's wagon after it dissolved.

Mmm, yes. This is how I feel too.

I'm not taking Pint having to push his content back as scum indicative but I'm saying it would've been bad if posts along those lines continued, which I guess is pointless now.


Hmmmm . . . never left moves his vote off of Alchemist who reads pretty damned townie to me but shades Pint. If Pint ever flips red here, this could be possible distancing.
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Post Post #1112  (isolation #207)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:47 am

In post 1003, Krazy wrote:
Votecount 1.10
NicoRobin(3) ~ (57), (153), (81)
u r a person 2(2) ~ (43), (42)
Shoshin the worst(2) ~ (6), (143)
Alchemist21(2) ~ (5), (61)
pinturicchio(1) ~ (75)
Mewtaph(1) ~ (52)
Kokichi Oma(1) ~ (70)


Not Voting (2): (184), Kokichi Oma(8)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-16 22:05:31)


MOD REMINDERSKokichi Oma needs a prod. The last post was at: 1/9/2019 10:23:00 AM which was 2 days 4 hours 16 minutes 51 seconds ago.

NicoRobin is no longer being replaced.

FLAVOR
Spoiler:


VOTE: Mewtaph
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Post Post #1114  (isolation #208)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:56 am

Also, didn’t care for the weird Gamma question and justification for it. Pint could also be scum but eh.

So, rn, those two read the least towniest. Thinking Stw is wrong about Taly and RSC (PF), so maybe one of the lurkers but lurking is more town indicative for Kokichi than Nico but currently null on both and I agree with Taly about either being low info flips.
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Post Post #1115  (isolation #209)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:59 am

In post 1113, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 889, pinturicchio wrote:URAP2 has townied it up a lot since my first pushing attempt, and I'm not as convinced as I was before; however, I still see some inconsistencies and I can't let go the things I pointed out before about him.

@taly i thought pintu had unvoted me, but i guess not.

remembering that what he pointed out was that i jumped off an early wagon on a town read of his, and noting the "has townied it up a lot" word choice, it's odd

it could be pintu scum, but scum!pintu seemed more in tune with the player base last game i played. i dont understand the strat he has here, and i think scum!pintu has a plan


All votes on you are bad, you seem really genuine. Could be?

@Eraserhead, go find a better wagon.
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Post Post #1118  (isolation #210)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:03 pm

In post 1116, Taly wrote:Town, not listing the order of strength OR confidence here
Almost Chara
Mephisto
STW
Varsoon
T&L
URAP2
Alchemist

Sorting
Mew
Pint
Proflavor
Michael Scott
Nicorobin
Kokichi


Not behind a Nico/Koki lynch unless there's either a better meta argument, or until they post more so I can evaluate them enough to have a lynch decision on.


+1

Totally mindmelding with your town list. I think scum is most likely in Mew/Pint/Nico/Kokichi - in that order. Eraserhead and Auroapocalypse are currently townleans but I suppose it’s possible Auro is pocketing me but unlikely. Unless one or more of my reads is wrong but based on associatives and bad votes, probably not. If Eraserhead doesn’t move their bad Bono vote, I’ll have to revisit that slot.

Anyway, Kokichi can be resolved tomorrow due to IC claim, plus lurking is more town indicative for him. If both lurkers are town, then I obviously need to reacess my reads.

Nico could really be upset about replace in being ignored or it could be more than that. I seriously question that Krazy would make that kind of mistake though but I suppose it’s possible.
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Post Post #1158  (isolation #211)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:02 pm

In post 1129, ProFlavor wrote:I would say at this point if we were going to policy lynch a lurk slot why Nico over Koki?

Those of you that played Overkill 2 may recall FL admitting either in PT or post game (can’t fully remember) he purposely acted as disengaged to move along to the later stages of the game

Arguably - that’s more Koki, as opposed to Nico simply not being here

So I’ll be keeping an eye on those pushing Nico


I’m gonna go read up on some slots that I haven’t really noticed up to now

In post 1130, Shoshin the worst wrote:if Kokichi just genuinely doesn't follow through on catching up he's obviously a fierce contender. I see nothing to townread from either of them but his catchup promise over just a naked vote is closer to playing in good faith than Nico's lurking/naked vote/complaining thing.


Lurking is more town indicative for Kokochi than it is for Nico and yeah, good point about the naked vote thing. I recall in Labrynth, Nico made it a point of saying that she required flips first, to have a read/vote.
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Post Post #1191  (isolation #212)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:18 am

In post 1131, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1128, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1126, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1086, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1021, Taly wrote:oh lol forgot mephisto was in this game again

...ive played with jeanne11... in 2015.

and ive played with nico one game this past year... but it doesnt count since she was mislynched early-game for doing the bare minimum to avoid being replaced


If Nico is town here, that looks good for Taly and vice-versa.

So even if Nico is scum - Taly has been hard against the Nico wagon because the flip doesn’t give us info

I’ve seen scum get lynched and people be against the wagon and sometimes the defender flips scum, sometimes town - so I’m making a mental note that talys issue with the wagon is specifically info gained, rather than “I don’t want to lynch Nico because i find ___ element of her play towny”

Idk what that means it just stood out

~ woof

This is a good take. You don't have any thoughts about whether Taly looks s/s with Nico, or like town flailing to defend a lurker wagon?

I don’t think I’ve ever played with scum!Taly - would he be that open wolf if it was s/s - pretty outrageous!

If it’s town!taly / either!Nico - it’s meaningless - talys just right that Nico is basically a policy lynch and its NAI

If it’s not town!taly I can only see it being scum!taly / town!Nico - taly ends up in day 2 with subliminal credibility of not lynching Nico without actually saying town!Nico - just PL are bad guys

It’s subliminal credibility because you’d never re-read the thread and be like “taly identified Nico!town” but in VCA - taly wasn’t on a town lynch (which can feasibly go through) so you probably give him credibility in your mind as you reflect on VCA but can’t really recall things (I’m thinking like in day 3 onwards etc)


Haven’t decided which - leaning T/T on gut instinct


Nico has so far done jack to be townread, she warrants a null at this point.

However, I now have a strong gut townread on Taly.
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Post Post #1192  (isolation #213)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:22 am

In post 1140, Taly wrote:
In post 1127, Shoshin the worst wrote:we can still powerlynch Nico before EOD.

this is definitely something id associate with "pressure' voting :roll:

and division is bad because that gives scum leverage/ammunition to drive lynches?

why has your vote remained on UP2 since , proflavor?

ProFlavor wrote:Tomorrow you can go “this person was for Nico but against Varsoon, this person was for Nico but with Varsoon” bla bla


so... a PL is good off COMPLETE associatives and NOTHING based off the lynched person's play?

why are you defending the nico wagon if you dont scumread them? or, DO you scumread them? since you havent clarified that in your last several posts


+1

Yes Eraserhead, why are you still voting pretty obvtown Bono?
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Post Post #1193  (isolation #214)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:26 am

In post 1143, Taly wrote:i feel like im the ONLY person shouting "NO" in this game and thats a huge-ass red flag.


I don’t think Nico is the best lynch but her naked vote on Shoshin, isn’t consistent with what I know of her town meta either. In Labrynth, she refused to place any vote until D2.

I pushed her really hard on that and she said that not voting pre-flips was inline with her meta. I can find the quotes if you like?
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Post Post #1195  (isolation #215)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:39 am

To anyone who thinks Nico’s vote on Stw, is completely NAI:


https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76341&user_select%5B%5D=31019


In post 782, NicoRobin wrote:
In post 779, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I wanted to vote for TPkAF but but I didn’t want to let it rand. I ISOd Nico and compared it with her other games, where she least had one original thought. To reference Vartsun, Nico is the epitome of “lurk-ass scum” in this game.


Did I have an 'original thought' on D1 of those games?

Note: Steven Universe 2 mafia and Mini 1936 don't count, cos I was confirmed town-aligned in both of those.

Prove to me that those 'original throughts' were made on D1 of at least three games. If you can't, then your read is a bunch of bs.

In post 784, NicoRobin wrote:I just told I don't have original though on freaking D1 and you are demanding one from me anyway. If you wanna read me, then at least try learning how I play as town and as scum before jumping to baseless conclusions.

In post 786, NicoRobin wrote:I never have reads on D1.

In post 788, NicoRobin wrote:Those who know how I play, tell her I do not, cos she clearly won't listen to me.

In post 789, NicoRobin wrote:
In post 787, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 785, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 784, NicoRobin wrote:I just told I don't have original though on freaking D1 and you are demanding one from me anyway. If you wanna read me, then at least try learning how I play as town and as scum before jumping to baseless conclusions.


Answer the damn question instead of being so defensive.

You’ve had two freaking weeks! I don’t believe you have no reads by now.


Randomidget subbed in after you and they’ve been doing a helluva a lot more than you and Creature put together.


That's their playstyle, this is mine. I am not suddenly gonna be able to produce good accurate reads on D1 because I am a flip-based player. So unless you want me to pull random names out of a hat and declare them scum, you're not gonna have reads from me yet.
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Post Post #1196  (isolation #216)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:44 am

In post 1156, profii wrote:
In post 1132, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1130, Shoshin the worst wrote:if Kokichi just genuinely doesn't follow through on catching up he's obviously a fierce contender. I see nothing to townread from either of them but his catchup promise over just a naked vote is closer to playing in good faith than Nico's lurking/naked vote/complaining thing.

Hi The Worst

In post 1133, Shoshin the worst wrote:Sup

it others me that i call out TWs blatant pocketing on the last page and whoosh gone i have to say


TW pocketing is entirely NAI.
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Post Post #1197  (isolation #217)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:49 am

In post 1166, Almost Chara wrote:Nico's vote (i had missed it) makes me fine with a lynch on her or Kokichi.
and townhunting while voting in a PoE is entirely legitimate. i personally really dislike any suggestions that voting someone active for more info is a better idea. (in a vacuum where your reads on them are the same, of course)

if they aren't looking town, lynch. mislynches because of their play if town are going to happen anyway, it will just be later when it's more damaging.
~Chara


I was initially agreeing with Taly but I found a meta tell from a previous game which I linked and quoted, which makes her naked vote on Stw, possibly scum indicative.

So, I have to disagree with Taly, because of that. Refusing to vote on D1, is a definite towntell according to Nico herself, based on what she posted in Labrynth. She was extremely adamant about that too.
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Post Post #1198  (isolation #218)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:52 am

In post 1168, pinturicchio wrote:I'm really sorry guys, I don't want to play this game at this moment. Yesterday I did excercise for the first time after surgery and it was good but I went to sleep early since I have no energy at all (I'm still on a restricted diet because of surgery), and before falling asleep I was like "fuck I haven't read the thread" and gave me anxiety 'cause I feel like this is a commitment that I'm not honouring... I hate when I'm fully committed to something and there's someone who's not, and right now I'm doing that.

I had a rough week. I'll try to wash it away and come back, but if I'm not able to do so, I'll have to replace out. You don't deserve this.


Feel better Pint and do whatever you need too. RL > mafia.
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Post Post #1220  (isolation #219)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:10 am

In post 1215, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 831, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 759, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 301, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Sorry, my memory on who was what in Undertale is fuzzy.

Me, A50, B&M, and Venmar/Firebringer were the scumteam
All else were town
Make sense?
-the green gemstone marked by a Greek letter


Maid Cafe?

They were town, what of it?


Yeah, I mixed you up with them. :lol:
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Post Post #1221  (isolation #220)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:13 am

Does no one have anything to say about post 1195?
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Post Post #1226  (isolation #221)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:04 pm

In post 1222, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1221, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Does no one have anything to say about post 1195?

I could link the friends game Gamma talked about and say Nico lurking can go either way tbh


Please do, that would be extremely helpful.
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Post Post #1227  (isolation #222)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:06 pm

In post 1224, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 432, NicoRobin wrote:Baa, baa, black shiiiipppp

In post 912, Krazy wrote:NicoRobin is being replaced. Nico can remain in the game if they post game-advancing content before a replacement is found. (Last prodge does not adhere to rule for prodges, which must include some game advancing content)

In post 969, NicoRobin wrote:VOTE: Shoshin


@Mephistophanes, I think they just voted the leading wagon at the time as a prod dodge, not as an actual read.


Maybe but they she doesn have to vote as a prodge. She never did on Labrynth on D1.
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Post Post #1228  (isolation #223)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:07 pm

In post 1225, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 1184, Almost Chara wrote:it wasn't a pressure wagon. it was PoE. it's true that i think i'm good at recognizing town Kokichi, but did you forget the game we played where you were scum and i misread you? why would you expect me to blindly keep treating you exactly the same way? i'm not a robot.
~Chara


Lie. You always choose to wait on me even through PoE. You're just scum going for an easy lynch like you tried to in dangan maf.


Have you read their ISO? They are like super obvtown here.
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Post Post #1229  (isolation #224)  » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:11 pm

In post 1223, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1190, Michael Scott wrote:I'm comfortable with my vote on Nico. I think a scum flip there would be useful anyway, given we have associatives already WRT who's trying to lead away from her lynch, and such.

Is there anyone convincingly scum at this point? I'm not seeing scum!STW how Varsoon is.


Mewtaph is scum.


Yeah, when a slot’s playstyle is radically different either concurrently or subsequently, chances are, that slot is a different alignment - scum, especially if it’s for the worse.

Mew asking Gamma, if he should townread her, was my fave. :lol:
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Post Post #1306  (isolation #225)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:14 am

Oh geez...the game almost doubled since I checked in last :S
Why in the living fuck do I even attempt Larges anymore!?

Anyway, I probably won't read everything so point out things I should respond to or know I guess. I'll confer with Nancy and see what we can do here :)

- Ari
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Post Post #1326  (isolation #226)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:59 pm

Spoiler:
In post 1236, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 588, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 585, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I don't understand why you think there's no town motivation in our slot pushing/scumreading you. It's pretty simple. We scumread you.
The fact you can't engage with me about why we shouldn't scumread you or should townread you had me baffled.


I believe that there can be a town motivation for scumreading me. I didn't say town!you town!reads me 100%

We can post game why I'm not into reading myself in the thread. It basically boils down to the wifom/not wifom discussion you're in the middle of and my having no interest in having those types of discussions

The problem we're having here is that you kicked off this rabbit hole discussion by voting us because you believe town!tw should be townreading you, plus the hydra dynamic which for the umpteenth time should not be deemed alignment indicative.

I'm trying to parse how you came to the conclusion that it's scum indicative for us to be scumreading you and pushing you just because the worst and you have history. I still do not understand your rationale here.

If you think TW should >rand be townreading you, we definitely need a better metric against which to measure your towntells, because it means what we are doing at the moment is on the wrong track.

This conversation is pretty important. If you do need to back out of it for holistic playstyle/meta reasons we understand but also please try to see that from our perspective, that leaves you joining out wagon late into its formation for almost exactly no reason...


In post 591, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I could give it a go with pintu but I'm not sure it'd get me anywhere.

I'm pocketed without the need of you doing anything <3

@Varsoon, I have a towntell on the duck, on the same line of your "stretch your minds" of Shoshin. I've seen the duck using the "holistical reads" as town before and can't recall him doing it as scum.

By the way @duck, why scumreading us? Felt like it came out of nowhere.

-Pin


TW actually used the phrase “holistic playstyle/meta reasons” here, not “holistical reads”. I looked into this, and TW using phrases like “holistic meta” or “holistic read” is definitely not a towntell for him. In fact, he used the phrase “holistic meta” in the first Starcraft game (as scum) four different times. I searched TW’s posts for the phrases “holistic meta”, “holistic read”, “holistic play”, and “holistic playstyle” as this is what I found:

TW has used the phrase “holistic meta” four times in the first Starcraft game as scum (link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970):

Link to the first post where he used “holistic meta”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10584202&hilit=+holistic+meta#p10584202

In post 517, the worst wrote:
In post 278, Varsoon wrote:P-EDIT:

Everything above the pedit is cringe
Everything below the pedit is locktown-irl

Varsoon I think you're really caught up on like holistic meta stuff and I'm like... not all that interested in it.... do you think the reads have been bad? maliciously intended? which ones? why?


Link to the second post where he used “holistic meta”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10595081&hilit=+holistic+meta#p10595081

In post 1594, the worst wrote:But I'm also wary of the fact I'm fucking easily triggered by people using bullshit holistic meta tells so I might be seeing red


Link to the third post where he used “holistic meta”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10595151&hilit=+holistic+meta#p10595151

In post 1638, the worst wrote:since no one is seeing what I'm seeing:
Mewtaph has asked Xtoxm the same question a lot of us have already asked him (which townreads gave him pause)

I think he's already answered that question really well, and I think his answer was town indicative. Mewtaph has ignored his reads and later contribution and comments about playstyle anxiety leading him to freak out about the early townreads. Follow his reads and it's probably pretty clear that he had his own takes, but the Big Bad Townblock was too much for him to like.

Mewtaph thinks he's a mislynch / has not noticed that Xtoxm's initial freak-out about the townreadspam actually kinda checks out, so shades him for not responding and votes him over ellitell

I ask Mewtaph to back the ellitell up with an actual scumcase. He cites the very early part of Xtoxm's contributions. I ask him to go back to his later iso and show me which of Xtoxm's posts are making him still feel that way

Nancy randomly charge-tackles me to the ground and Mewtaph stands there watching us and acting all surprised that I asked him to back up this read.

Like idfk he hasn't warlocked Nancy, she did it of her own volition but I'm fucking done if I'm being shaded for asking someone who's done sweet fuck all to back up a horseshit holistic meta tell with an actual scumcase on a slot I'm townreading


Link to the fourth post where he used “holistic meta”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10615025&hilit=+holistic+meta#p10615025

In post 2977, the worst wrote:
In post 2975, Xtoxm wrote:I have to be able to trust that townies won't make reckless antitown plays like that.

You for real? I think Perf is scum but his hammer is the most defensible part of his ISO. The hell else was he meant to do with like 6 hours remaining? NM was clearly a very viable lynch candidate and imo if he was going to claim at all he would have already done it.

I'm kinda flashing back to something someone said to me pretty recently but if scum always made reckless antitown moves and town never did mafia would be like.. obscenely easier than it is. do you have reasoning other than an holistic meta dislike of hammers on unclaimed slots?



TW used the phrases “holistic meta” and “holistic gamestate read” one time each in Newbie 1866 as town (link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76047)

Link to the post where he used “holistic meta”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76047&p=10178131&hilit=+holistic+meta#p10178131

Link to the post where he used “holistic gamestate read”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76047&p=10201152&hilit=+holistic+read#p10201152


TW used the phrase “holistic readthrough” one time In Newbie 1870 as town (link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76282)

Link to the post where he used “holistic readthrough”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76282&p=10264643&hilit=+holistic+read#p10264643


TW used the phrase “holistic read” one time in Open 737 as town (link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77146)

Link to the post where he used “holistic read”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77146&p=10453007&hilit=+holistic+read#p10453007

No results came up for “holistic play” or “holistic playstyle” when searching TW’s posts.

Granted, TW has used phrases like “holistic read” or something along those lines as town, but in this game the exact phrase he used in post was “holistic playstyle/meta reasons”, and he has used “holistic meta” four times as much as scum than he has as town. In any case, TW frequently uses the word “holistic” in general (there are 41 results for just the word “holistic” when searching TW’s posts), so at best him using the phrase “holistic playstyle/meta reasons” is NAI for him. So @Pinturicchio, why were you so quick to label this as a “towntell” for TW when it clearly isn’t?

And @The Worst, what are your thoughts on Pinturicchio incorrectly applying this as a “towntell” for your slot?

- Date Mike (Volxen)


Acupuncture has nothing on “holistic meta”, I guess. :lol:

Interesting.

~N

Large multiquote spoilered -- Krazy
Last edited by Krazy on Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1329  (isolation #227)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:03 pm

In post 1237, ProFlavor wrote:That’s a lot of words for what could have been

TW used the word holistic 41 times over a certain time period / X as town / Y as scum so it’s NAI
Then ask why point disagreed


Why use 100 words when you can use 10 eh


~ woof


This game should be changed to War of Words Mafia.

First we had “stretch your mind”, then “venom”, now “holistic meta”.

Anything, I’m forgetting?



Spoiler:
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Post Post #1362  (isolation #228)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:51 pm

In post 1257, Mewtaph wrote:Lynch pool for being scummy: {Alchemist21, Almost Chara, Shoshin the worst}
Up for policy lynch[/b{: {Nancy}

Steamrolling with the biggest wagon that forms on any of these three + Nancy.


POLICY lynching us? For what, exactly? :lol:

Are you actually trying to get lynched now? Just keep accelerating that scum!meter, why don’t you? :lol:
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Post Post #1363  (isolation #229)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:53 pm

In post 1258, Michael Scott wrote:@Mewtaph: Alchemist rebutted your attack on him, you left it at that though - why?
Rationale for STW, Almost Chara?
Why a policy lynch on Nancy?

~Jimothy

In post 1261, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 1258, Michael Scott wrote:@Mewtaph: Alchemist rebutted your attack on him, you left it at that though - why?
Rationale for STW, Almost Chara?
Why a policy lynch on Nancy?

~Jimothy

It's how scum would respond from beginning to end. Me trying to push Alchemist through here requires thread presence I don't have - Nancy is acting as a huge obstacle to me pushing him at all and reflecting votes onto me in a very destructive manner.

Tl;dr, the rebuttal is how a scum responds and the basis of his approach to me isn't how town thinks. I'm not responding to a hard SR


Like if I had any doubt you’re flipping red, thanks for putting my mind at ease.
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Post Post #1367  (isolation #230)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:06 pm

In post 1364, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1363, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1258, Michael Scott wrote:@Mewtaph: Alchemist rebutted your attack on him, you left it at that though - why?
Rationale for STW, Almost Chara?
Why a policy lynch on Nancy?

~Jimothy

In post 1261, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 1258, Michael Scott wrote:@Mewtaph: Alchemist rebutted your attack on him, you left it at that though - why?
Rationale for STW, Almost Chara?
Why a policy lynch on Nancy?

~Jimothy

It's how scum would respond from beginning to end. Me trying to push Alchemist through here requires thread presence I don't have - Nancy is acting as a huge obstacle to me pushing him at all and reflecting votes onto me in a very destructive manner.

Tl;dr, the rebuttal is how a scum responds and the basis of his approach to me isn't how town thinks. I'm not responding to a hard SR


Like if I had any doubt you’re flipping red, thanks for putting my mind at ease.


Are you telling Michael Scott this or the other person?

-B


:lol:

Who do you think?

Mewtaph obviously.

Advocating a PL on us, like he might as well just post his role pm. :lol:
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Post Post #1368  (isolation #231)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:10 pm

In post 1328, Mewtaph wrote:Following on my previous post. More specifically, it hedges on Varsoon vs STW which is a much more significant point of interest and making a strong conclusion there, while throwing out some sense of analysis that ends in Mephisto being town which is only really relevant in diffusing hostility between STW and Mephisto which is much less relevant. It's misplaced focus.


Hostility? What hostility?

Are we in the same game?
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Post Post #1369  (isolation #232)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:13 pm

In post 1331, Mewtaph wrote:What don't you follow in ?


Where is this “hostility” you’re referring too wrt to us and Stw, in THIS game?
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Post Post #1370  (isolation #233)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:14 pm

In post 1344, Mewtaph wrote:The deadline, probably. We need to choose a lynch, may as well try to make your stake in the game state.


If I move my vote, it’s probably to Nico rn.
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Post Post #1371  (isolation #234)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:16 pm

In post 1347, Varsoon wrote:Reminds me a lot of how STW proposed Mewtaph for lynch in Starcraft 1 because Mewtaph was an easy target and STW needed mislynches to win there.

-V


Mewtaph seems very different here though and the whole PL thing is just whack.
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Post Post #1372  (isolation #235)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:17 pm

In post 1348, ProFlavor wrote:On top of that, Varsoon is townVarsoon here. I know what that tunneling Varsoon feels like and looks like. On top of that, both Nancy and Mustang have a tendency to tunnel onto towniesbpretty relentlessly (albeit in different ways) is the fact they are the first 2 on the Mewtaph wagon makes it more likely that they are tunneling onto town which is why it got near lynch.

This is regardless of Nancy/Mustang alignments.

~Leaf


Who is Mustang?
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Post Post #1373  (isolation #236)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:19 pm

In post 1365, Kokichi Oma wrote:I'm telling you guys. Chara is scum. Meta never wrong


Why?
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Post Post #1383  (isolation #237)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:59 pm

In post 1378, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: Kokichi
If this greens I'll reconsider AC
Otherwise I'm treating them as basically hard town


Why is Kokichi a so much better vote than Nico?
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Post Post #1385  (isolation #238)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:04 pm

In post 1275, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1228, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Have you read their ISO? They are like super obvtown here.

i'm assuming this is Nancy (but why aren't you signing?)
why are we obvtown? for someone besides you i would agree, but in our last game together it took a while for you to get to townreading me, and i feel like i've been doing a lot less this game.
~Chara


Wagonomics mainly dictated that situation, so I don’t really see how that’s relevant?

I have better than average reads. Unfortunately, I seem to lack the charisma to persuade anyone of that.

There’s a few posts your slot made, that I just don’t see coming from scum.

Oh and

~Nancy (decent AC reader)
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Post Post #1386  (isolation #239)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:10 pm

In post 1374, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1307, Mewtaph wrote:This is not town. This is not how town approaches the game. Alchemist is not town.

Could you respond to any of the things I asked you?
At all?

I don't see how you're town approaching this right now.


I just finished a game with town!Alchemist and he is posting the exact same way, he is here.

@Chara, backatcha <3
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Post Post #1395  (isolation #240)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:56 pm

In post 1391, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1390, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1378, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: Kokichi
If this greens I'll reconsider AC
Otherwise I'm treating them as basically hard town


This also sets up a mislynch path and general plan of action.


While at the same time creates commraderie with who they’d be working with to get Kokichi, so they have support onto AC tomorrow, then can turn onto their support.

It’s a solid scum play, but it’s very much scum play nonetheless.

Scum play as in, scum do this because it helps them get on towns good side. I like to look into the reasons people town read others to find my scum reads because essentially that’s what scum tries to do. Get townies to town read them.

~Leaf


I don’t see any reason to lynch Kokichi today but even if he were lynched and flipped green, without that whole “never wrong meta” he referenced, I would still not vote them. We are in no one’s pocket but Krazy could conceivably persude us. :P

Who the hell is freaking “mustang”?
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Post Post #1398  (isolation #241)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:58 pm

In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:The fact that Varsoon, Mewtaph, and I are the three on Shoshin right now shows me that this is more than likely a scum slot.

Varsoon is hard town here. I’ve recently gotten to witness directly both townVarsoon and scumVarsoon, and really I’ve known Varsoon for like 4 and a half years now, so I’m pretty happy with my read there.

Mewtaph is town for the wagon composition. Mustang and Nancy pushing onto a townie the way they did makes total sense, and then people, and scumShoshin, decide to jump on to Mewtaph.

This also semi incriminates Jjh slot, but I’ll let them catchup first.

I realize my slot will probably be tried to use as a counterwagon option after pushing Shoshone like this, so unless you wanna try to 1v1 me and out explain the damn awful play it would have been to let Mewtaph live in this situation as scum...well, go for it. I could have just kept not playing the game and allowing Profii to play in that situation. Mewtaph likely would have been killed.

So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Long story short, Only town are on the Shoshin wagon right now. Bet.


*calling bookie as I type this*
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Post Post #1399  (isolation #242)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:59 pm

In post 1396, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?


+1
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Post Post #1401  (isolation #243)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:01 pm

In post 1394, Almost Chara wrote:it's a foolish one if so (not that i'm discounting your interpretation).
what's pretty bizarre to me is the belief that Kokichi's alignment has anything to do with mine here, as though his bad meta read on me has credence provided he's town.

but Leaf, do you think STW decides to have their cake and eat it too, by which i mean continuing to have us as strong town while also trying to lynch someone i don't want to lynch, and leave us open as a target on later days?

and thanks for the answer, Nancy.
~Chara


Yeah well, without some ubercompelling metacase, I don’t see that happening. :lol:

YW. :)
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Post Post #1404  (isolation #244)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:07 pm

In post 1400, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1396, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?


You can think it, but I have plenty of reasons that prove that you are the wrong town.

Explain it to me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

~Leaf


Explain to me how his Alchemist21=scum theory make a bit of sense. He is clearly obvtown and I’d think this even if he weren’t playing identical to how he was playing in OK 2 but it was the PL thing in addition to his weird Gamma question that makes me think, Mew is a decent wagon here. All jjh did was unvote them, which I read as NAI.

If you’re one of 3 possibile viable wagons - one extremely likely one, why not pocket tw? Maybe it’s not a pocket but I wouldn’t tr it just for that.
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Post Post #1405  (isolation #245)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:08 pm

In post 1397, Almost Chara wrote:that's Alchemist, his avatar is Roy Mustang from Fullmetal Alchemist.
~Chara


Oh thanks.
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Post Post #1407  (isolation #246)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:09 pm

In post 1400, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1396, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?


You can think it, but[b] I have plenty of reasons that prove that you are the wrong town[/b{.

Explain it to me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

~Leaf



Enlighten us please, Eraserhead/Leaf.
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Post Post #1408  (isolation #247)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:13 pm

In post 1402, ProFlavor wrote:Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf


Once again I repeat: Please explain it to me, like I’m 5. Ktankx.
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Post Post #1411  (isolation #248)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:17 pm

Also Eraserhead/Leaf, please explain to me in what world advocating a policy lynch on our slot is not even remotely scummy. And what about Mew’s weirdass Gamma question?

What possible town motivation is there in Mew asking Gamma if he should townread her?


I’m waiting. :popcorn:
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Post Post #1414  (isolation #249)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:21 pm

In post 1410, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1408, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1402, ProFlavor wrote:Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf


Once again I repeat: Please explain it to me, like I’m 5. Ktankx.


I have.

Nothing scummy really from Mewtaph, you and Mustang have a tendency to tunnel onto townies, then the near lynch.

If you’re town, then you should feel scum followed you onto the wagon, tbh.


Oh is this similar to Mew’s Gamma question? :lol:

Once again, please explain it to me, like I’m 5.
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Post Post #1416  (isolation #250)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:23 pm

In post 1413, ProFlavor wrote:Sure, and I’m taking that into consideration.

One thing doesn’t make someone town, the conjunction of multiple things do.

In post 1414, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1410, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1408, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1402, ProFlavor wrote:Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf


Once again I repeat: Please explain it to me, like I’m 5. Ktankx.


I have.

Nothing scummy really from Mewtaph, you and Mustang have a tendency to tunnel onto townies, then the near lynch.

If you’re town, then you should feel scum followed you onto the wagon, tbh.


Oh is this similar to Mew’s Gamma question? :lol:

Once again, please explain it to me, like I’m 5.
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Post Post #1420  (isolation #251)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:26 pm

In post 1415, ProFlavor wrote:I use the “should I town read you?@ question or some variant of it,

Or I’ll ask Why should I? Genuinely.

So I actually find the question townie than scummy.

All these pushes I’m seeing are NAI at best, if not they make me feel like they are town.

This is the type of mislynch that scum push. I understand why the wagon was built upon them, I just strongly believe Mewtaph is town.


You still aren’t explaining why you think Mew is a mislynch and sure, I’m not defacto ruling out possible scum bussing and if Mew was playing similarly here to how he was playing in SC1, I’d be fighting for people to jump off of his wagon but I’m so far not seeing it.
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Post Post #1423  (isolation #252)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:31 pm

In post 1417, ProFlavor wrote:Instead of me explaining my reads, would you mind explaining your reasoning to scum read them, and I’ll give my thoughts on it?

I feel that we can probably come to a consensus. I want to help you see why Mewtaoh is more than likely town here.

~Leaf

PEdit:
K, you gotta stop requoting. I don’t PEdit much, and you post during my other stuff. I was getting there.


A) He seems very different here, than in last game.

B) I don’t buy his read on Alchemist.

C) Weirdass Gamma question, made to look like he was actually asking something useful when he clearly wasn’t.

D) Advocating stupid PL, which is 9/10 a scum move when it isn’t based on anything which adversely impacts the gamestate.

E) Mew’s entire reaction to his wagon, isn’t townie. He reacted extremely different to it last game.
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Post Post #1425  (isolation #253)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:35 pm

In post 1421, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1418, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1409, ProFlavor wrote:I just really don’t feel like Mewtaph has really done anything that’s overly scummy, I feel I’ve given a plenty solid reasoning for why he is most likely town, so any votes on Mewtaph right now I would feel are being done politically.
"
I agree that he hasn't done anything dramatically scummy, but I'm also not convinced on stw scum, and I am the people who jumped onto mew's wagon, so the wagon analysis in defense of mew doesn't really sway me either.

so then, to my understanding, the town case on him is that his one well flushed out read, which contradicts my own read on alch, is too complex to come from scum!mew

and in a game where I've got enough town reads to fill a boat, that just ain't doin' it.

my head hurts, i'll come back to it in the morning.


Only takes one scum. I don’t think you are the scum.

But I definitely feel the lack of resistance towards Mewtaph prior to me coming in implies Mewtaph town.

Good post by you. I’m liking you right now.

Honestly, that makes me feel more comfortable on STW, however.


Fun fact: I was in an MU game where scum godfather was close to being lynched, only when he had a substantial wagon on him, were there any even noticeable signs of resistance to it.
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Post Post #1430  (isolation #254)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:37 pm

In post 1419, ProFlavor wrote:If you’re town, why do you think scum wouldn’t follow onto the wagon you were pushing?

Let’s take Mewtaph’s alignment out of it.

Regardless of their alignment, it is more than likely that scum would follow you onto it. Mewtaph was very much near lynch. It was a high possibility.

Scum was on the wagon. :shrug: regardless of Mewtaoh’s Alignment.


Will you please stop saying that? Bono is way more town than you rn.
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Post Post #1439  (isolation #255)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:46 pm

In post 1426, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1423, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1417, ProFlavor wrote:Instead of me explaining my reads, would you mind explaining your reasoning to scum read them, and I’ll give my thoughts on it?

I feel that we can probably come to a consensus. I want to help you see why Mewtaoh is more than likely town here.

~Leaf

PEdit:
K, you gotta stop requoting. I don’t PEdit much, and you post during my other stuff. I was getting there.


A) He seems very different here, than in last game.

B) I don’t buy his read on Alchemist.

C) Weirdass Gamma question, made to look like he was actually asking something useful when he clearly wasn’t.

D) Advocating stupid PL, which is 9/10 a scum move when it isn’t based on anything which adversely impacts the gamestate.

E) Mew’s entire reaction to his wagon, isn’t townie. He reacted extremely different to it last game.


A) He got rang up this game. I would expect him to act differently as town.
B) what read is that? I’m lean scum on Alchemist too, so if that’s it, all the more reason I like him. It’s even hard to explain, because Alxhemist hasn’t necessarily done anything, so I like that.
C) i explained why i think that’s likelier town than scum.
D) when do scum do this? I actually feel town are more likely to push a PL because it’s percieved as scummier.
E) i disagree. He’s going incredibly transparent. He’s giving reads. He’s trying to find scum, he’s just got a lot of pressure on him and no resistance to his wagon, so of course it’s going to be hard.

I think you rely on meta too much. I don’t feel meta should be used as a primary way, more of a complimentary tool. You keep meta reading like that, it’s going to get hard abused, I’ll tell you that much.

~Leaf


A) Nah

B) You were in OK 2. How is Alchemist, even remotely different here? If anything, he’s more obvious here than he was in that game.

C) So, I guess we agree to disagree then?

D) Sorry but that the biggest crock of shit, I’ve heard in a very long time. :lol:

E) How is Mew “transparent”? When he was being wagoned last game, he never once advocated for PL and he actually had more than plenty of just cause to do that there, then he does in THIS game.

I’m willing to risk it, since it’s usually more often than not accurate.

FACT: I caught scum!Marquis in BoR and scum!Bujaber in OK 2 and some others through meta.
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Post Post #1443  (isolation #256)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:50 pm

In post 1432, ProFlavor wrote:I imagine Mewtaph felt like Nancy was tunneling and there was nothing he could do about that.

I feel this way about players like Rb and Rc, who both tunnel me relentlessly, always when I’m town. (They’re not successful with it, might I add.)

~Leaf


I honestly don’t believe I am. Mew has done jack to make me reconsidering moving my vote. Who would you suggest I vote for then? So far, everyone else reads townier to me than Mew and we don’t have any really useful info in the lurker slots, to make them viable but I’m of course open to that changing.
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Post Post #1445  (isolation #257)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:51 pm

In post 1440, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1437, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1435, ProFlavor wrote:I could care less about that right now. Mewtaph is the towniest person in this game right now.

a little hyperbolic. i completely understand scumreads in Mewtaph.

i'm also feeling rather apologetic to Varsoon for asking him to direct his attention to somewhere besides STW, and then now finding myself a little suspicious of them.
~Chara


I have said this as well.

I understand why people were pushing Mewtaph. That in itself is a reason why scum is likely on Mewtaph, especially with a tunneling Nancy on them.



I wasn’t tunnelling and I never pushed his wagon but the PL crap, has pushed my sr of him into the stratosphere.
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Post Post #1449  (isolation #258)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:53 pm

In post 1441, ProFlavor wrote:Sure, you can use meta for reads, but meet a player like me, and I’m going to abuse the hell out of it.


Fair, I never said it’s useful for everyone but some players, it certainly is and Mew is playing very differently and not in a townier way IMO.
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Post Post #1450  (isolation #259)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:54 pm

In post 1442, ProFlavor wrote:@Nancy - I guarantee the next time you try to use meta to scum read me, I will not be scum. I’ll tell you that right now.

I just play every game at face value for the most part, so even my town games are pretty different from each other. And I like to try new things when I’m scum. New gambits.

I gambit as town also, if not more than when i’m scum. Just a heads up.

~Leaf


Good to know but then again, we’re not talking about you, we’re talking about Mewtaph.
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Post Post #1453  (isolation #260)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:56 pm

In post 1444, ProFlavor wrote:I’ve seen more townies push a PL than scum.

Pushing a PL as scum is a dirty play, and most scum don’t do that. :shrug: I don’t think I’ve ever pushed a PL when I’m scum. I’ve done it multiple times as town, so...


I believe you and yes, I’ve seen scum do that numerous times and gun to head, I don’t for a minute think it was town motivated here.

Mew knows he would have a helluva time trying to mislynch me, so he resorts to PL bs.
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Post Post #1457  (isolation #261)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:58 pm

In post 1446, ProFlavor wrote:I would say STW/Alchemist. Neither of them are townie whatsoever.

Scum was on the Mewtaph wagon. Regardless of Mew’s alignment.


I just freaking told you that I see 0 difference in his play here, than in OK 2, in fact, he is even more obviously townie here, so once I again, pretend I’m dumb and explain to me how Alchemist is possibly scum here?
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Post Post #1458  (isolation #262)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:02 am

In post 1447, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1428, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1423, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:did Mewtaph ever say why he wanted to PL you?
~Chara


additionally, i also don't find calling PL with no reason to be that scummy, because town do it too.
and your strong reaction to it seems to have more to do with the fact it was on your slot. much like how you reacted to Gamma mentioning a scumread on you during the endgame of Excalibur.
~Chara


I would react strongly to that if it were on ANY slot, without good cause.

I honestly think the two situations are apples and oranges.

Ask A50 how town!Mew reacted to his wagon in SC 1.
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Post Post #1461  (isolation #263)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:08 am

In post 1448, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1445, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1440, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1437, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1435, ProFlavor wrote:I could care less about that right now. Mewtaph is the towniest person in this game right now.

a little hyperbolic. i completely understand scumreads in Mewtaph.

i'm also feeling rather apologetic to Varsoon for asking him to direct his attention to somewhere besides STW, and then now finding myself a little suspicious of them.
~Chara


I have said this as well.

I understand why people were pushing Mewtaph. That in itself is a reason why scum is likely on Mewtaph, especially with a tunneling Nancy on them.



I wasn’t tunnelling and I never pushed his wagon but the PL crap, has pushed my sr of him into the stratosphere.


And that’s why you can’t see him as town. He hit an emotional button for you when he wanted to PL thou, and you didn’t like that. Makes perfect sense why you are pushing him. However, he is also no longer on you, so...

~Leaf


I also don’t think Alchemist is scum and that his push on him makes no sense.

And why does he ask Gamma if he should be townreading her?

Varsoon is tunnelled on Stw and I can actually understand why, not on them but I understand where he’s coming from.

Last game, you said anything scum!Shoshin didn’t like, she voted you, here as in Labrynth, she just gets pissed. I’m not thrilled with their Kokichi vote because I don’t have a read on them yet and don’t understand why he is scummier than Nico slot.

But I’m agreeing with many of their reads and I tend to take that as a good sign.

I still would bet money that town!Mew never advocates a PL here.
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Post Post #1462  (isolation #264)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:11 am

In post 1451, Almost Chara wrote:at the risk of sounding like an absolute asshole, i'd like you to reconsider how much you've mentioned the PL thing. it's a lot more than Mewtaph has mentioned it. (he did so once and never pursued it.)
~Chara


No I don’t think you are but neither do I think he deserves townie points for dropping it, assuming you’re actually correct about that. Has he actually stated that he retracted it? If no, I’m not at all convinced of it.
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Post Post #1463  (isolation #265)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:12 am

In post 1452, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1449, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1441, ProFlavor wrote:Sure, you can use meta for reads, but meet a player like me, and I’m going to abuse the hell out of it.


Fair, I never said it’s useful for everyone but some players, it certainly is and Mew is playing very differently and not in a townier way IMO.


Well, he’s no longer an option for the lynch today. I’ll make sure of that. If I die, Mewtaph is locktown, because nobody pulls the “he only killed Leaf to seem townie” when I’m defending them this hard.

~Leaf


Why do you think you die over the hardclaimed vig?
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Post Post #1467  (isolation #266)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:16 am

In post 1454, ProFlavor wrote:I’m kind of done talking about Mewtaph, tbh. He’s town, and you just got triggered with his PL comment that he dropped pretty fast.
I’ll be back in a bit. Probably going to look into Alchemist a bit more.

~Leaf


Sure, you’ve figured it out, I absolutely got “triggered”. I totally suck at this game and have shit reads. Ok. :lol:
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Post Post #1468  (isolation #267)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:19 am

In post 1466, ProFlavor wrote:@Gamma - should I be town reading you here?

You haven’t been on my radar too much, so I’d like to know.

~Leaf


Wtf answer was Gamma supposed to give to that? Like seriously?

Like is she supposed to say, so glad you asked me that Mew, of course you shouldn’t. Thank you so much for helping clarify my own alignment to myself.
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Post Post #1470  (isolation #268)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:48 am

In post 1455, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1451, Almost Chara wrote:at the risk of sounding like an absolute asshole, i'd like you to reconsider how much you've mentioned the PL thing. it's a lot more than Mewtaph has mentioned it. (he did so once and never pursued it.)
~Chara

this is actually incorrect now that i think about it properly. he did push the angle a lot. sorry Nancy. :<

regardless i still think my original point about how the read isn't that scummy, and your problem is that he advocates to lynch you specifically.
~Chara


No, it doesn’t have hardly anything to do with it being MY slot, it has mostly to do with it being a batshit insane reason for advocating one on ANYBODY. If you want to believe that, you’d be very wrong about that. Wrt to,my wrong Gamma sr in Excalibur, sr/=policy lynches, so sorry but not good argument and they’re was also the wagonomics aspect to it. In this scenario I wouldn’t have been necessarily sr Gamma for that, so I think it’s kind of an unfair comparison. Advocating for policy lynches in general without damn good cause, are scummy in general and I would highly appreciate it in the future, if you didn’t tell me what my actual reasoning is for doing anything, when I know it it be inaccurate.
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Post Post #1471  (isolation #269)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:50 am

In post 1469, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1464, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1457, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1446, ProFlavor wrote:I would say STW/Alchemist. Neither of them are townie whatsoever.

Scum was on the Mewtaph wagon. Regardless of Mew’s alignment.


I just freaking told you that I see 0 difference in his play here, than in OK 2, in fact, he is even more obviously townie here, so once I again, pretend I’m dumb and explain to me how Alchemist is possibly scum here?


He wasn’t even in OK2 much, and yes, it’s similar. Any decent scum player is going to be able to match their town play, especially Day 1. Why are you using that as a full excuse that Alchemist can absolutely not be scum here?

Are you hatcheting me so STW doesn’t get killed?

~Leaf


This still doesn’t explain why you think I’m scum. If it’s not for the Mewtaph push then where is it coming from?


Ding ding. I’m glad I’m not the only one who isn’t letting Mew skate by this.
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Post Post #1472  (isolation #270)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:56 am

In post 1470, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1455, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1451, Almost Chara wrote:at the risk of sounding like an absolute asshole, i'd like you to reconsider how much you've mentioned the PL thing. it's a lot more than Mewtaph has mentioned it. (he did so once and never pursued it.)
~Chara

this is actually incorrect now that i think about it properly. [b]he did push the angle a lot[/b. sorry Nancy. :<

regardless i still think my original point about how the read isn't that scummy, and your problem is that he advocates to lynch you specifically.
~Chara


No, it doesn’t have hardly anything to do with it being MY slot, it has mostly to do with it being a batshit insane reason for advocating one on ANYBODY. If you want to believe that, you’d be very wrong about that. Wrt to,my wrong Gamma sr in Excalibur, sr/=policy lynches, so sorry but not good argument and they’re was also the wagonomics aspect to it. In this scenario I wouldn’t have been necessarily sr Gamma for that, so I think it’s kind of an unfair comparison. Advocating for policy lynches in general without damn good cause, are scummy in general and I would highly appreciate it in the future, if you didn’t tell me what my actual reasoning is for doing anything, when I know it it be inaccurate.


Bolding, just in case anyone missed how strongly Mew was pushing a PL on us. Possibly because he thinks I can accurately read him? And Eraserhead and Chara can tell me until hell freezes over how this is totally insignificant but it pings me a lot and my perfectly valid read won’t be discredited either by incorrect attributions and/or inaccurate interpretations - no matter WHO makes them.
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Post Post #1503  (isolation #271)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:20 am

In post 1459, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 1378, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: Kokichi
If this greens I'll reconsider AC
Otherwise I'm treating them as basically hard town


Horrible vote and reasoning and thought process. I'd lunch this too


But why thr jump to Kokochi, @Stw? I don’t understand this at all.
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Post Post #1504  (isolation #272)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:21 am

In post 1464, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1457, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1446, ProFlavor wrote:I would say STW/Alchemist. Neither of them are townie whatsoever.

Scum was on the Mewtaph wagon. Regardless of Mew’s alignment.


I just freaking told you that I see 0 difference in his play here, than in OK 2, in fact, he is even more obviously townie here, so once I again, pretend I’m dumb and explain to me how Alchemist is possibly scum here?


He wasn’t even in OK2 much, and yes, it’s similar. Any decent scum player is going to be able to match their town play, especially Day 1. Why are you using that as a full excuse that Alchemist can absolutely not be scum here?

Are you hatcheting me so STW doesn’t get killed?

~Leaf


No only tw can “hatchet” you, since he’s actually a duck.
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Post Post #1505  (isolation #273)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:25 am

In post 1474, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1383, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1378, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: Kokichi
If this greens I'll reconsider AC
Otherwise I'm treating them as basically hard town


Why is Kokichi a so much better vote than Nico?

Jjh will actually play the game.
Kokichi is being aggressively bad.

@AC I wouldn't scumread you based on Kokichi's meta. I might just consider it in greater than face value which is pretty much how I'm treating it currently.


How is Kokichi “aggressively bad” and even if you’re right about that, how does that make him scum?

When did Nico slot become townie? *scratching my head*

Why did you jump off of Mew in the first place?
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Post Post #1506  (isolation #274)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:26 am

In post 1475, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1387, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1379, Shoshin the worst wrote:Mewtaph is still a great vote if people pull their heads out but I'm losing faith in this list rapidly


This is a false bravado and an attempt to discredit the player list.

I feel we’re actually a strong playerlist, and whoever said this is attempting to cause doubt within town.

It’s Day 1. Nobody should genuinely have that kind of attitude towards the game state.

~Leaf

Bruh it should be pretty obvious why I have that approach to the gamestate. It's got nothing to do with the strength of the list. I genuinely just don't get the Mewtaph townread even slightly and nobody is taking the time to point me in the right direction which has me wondering if they're not super confident on it either.


So then why tf are you voting Kokichi?
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Post Post #1507  (isolation #275)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:28 am

In post 1476, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1389, ProFlavor wrote:Kokichi is also mislynch bait this early in the game. Shoshin is super scum. :lol:

~Leaf

"let's not lynch him because he's lynchbait" is agenda driven thinking. Kokichi's iso is high wolf equity lol.
don't position our slot like this. take a few minutes to try and see what we're seeing?


Dafuq? How and what makes you so sure he isn’t “lynchbait”?
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Post Post #1508  (isolation #276)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:31 am

In post 1478, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1394, Almost Chara wrote:it's a foolish one if so (not that i'm discounting your interpretation).
what's pretty bizarre to me is the belief that Kokichi's alignment has anything to do with mine here, as though his bad meta read on me has credence provided he's town.

but Leaf, do you think STW decides to have their cake and eat it too, by which i mean continuing to have us as strong town while also trying to lynch someone i don't want to lynch, and leave us open as a target on later days?

and thanks for the answer, Nancy.
~Chara

I don't think Kokichi's alignment is related to yours right now no
he was correct on scum!me last game and couldn't be bothered explaining it or revealing his triplevoting IC role that would have confirmed me scum


so if he does flip green I'll take his read on you like 1% seriously and actually see how I feel about it and whether it's worth engaging with you on.


Are you sure Kokichi isn’t this game’s NM?
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Post Post #1509  (isolation #277)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:33 am

In post 1479, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1399, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1396, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?


+1

#goodposting



You meant that for Bono, I assume. I doubt my “+1”, remotely qualifies as “good posting”. :lol:
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Post Post #1510  (isolation #278)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:39 am

In post 1484, Shoshin the worst wrote:If this is actually all t/t scum is >rand lurking.
The way Mewtaph is ducking out all the pressure has me cringing again.

Jjh excusable due to rep in. Kokichi's pop ins are consistently bad. Pintu/Taly still worth keeping an eye on.
yeah I'm scumreading a lot of lurkers


Pintu is recovering from surgery, so not touching that today, Taly is town and am I the only one in this freaking game that thinks that anyone advocating a PL on ANYONE for no good Goddamned fucking reason, is open wolfing?
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Post Post #1511  (isolation #279)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:43 am

In post 1495, ProFlavor wrote:He just had a lot of pressure on him. Of course his posting was gonna seem weird. It's what people push as "flailing" but town flail too.


The REASON for the pressure on him, was that his posting was “weird”. Is this Opposite Day and did I somehow fail to get the memo?
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Post Post #1512  (isolation #280)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:49 am

In post 1261, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 1258, Michael Scott wrote:@Mewtaph: Alchemist rebutted your attack on him, you left it at that though - why?
Rationale for STW, Almost Chara?
Why a policy lynch on Nancy?

~Jimothy

It's how scum would respond from beginning to end. Me trying to push Alchemist through here requires thread presence I don't have - Nancy is acting as a huge obstacle to me pushing him at all and reflecting votes onto me in a very destructive manner.

Tl;dr, the rebuttal is how a scum responds and the basis of his approach to me isn't how town thinks. I'm not responding to a hard SR


Yeah, damned right, I will be a huge freaking “obstacle”, to anyone attempting to lynch a hard townread. Some people town would call it “pro-town” but I digress. :roll:
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Post Post #1513  (isolation #281)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:50 am

In post 1262, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1222, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1221, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Does no one have anything to say about post 1195?

I could link the friends game Gamma talked about and say Nico lurking can go either way tbh


Was this the one where we partnered up and had two desperate games?

~Leaf


So no link?

Don’t le me down, Eraserhead.
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Post Post #1515  (isolation #282)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:08 am

Feel pretty good about MS being town here.
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Post Post #1517  (isolation #283)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:15 am

In post 1516, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1514, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1513, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1262, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1222, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1221, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Does no one have anything to say about post 1195?

I could link the friends game Gamma talked about and say Nico lurking can go either way tbh


Was this the one where we partnered up and had two desperate games?

~Leaf


So no link?

Don’t le me down, Eraserhead.


I'm not the one who brought it up. I was asking myself.

~Leaf

Speak for yourself - I won mine :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=76964

~woof



Lurking in the game is my town trait, and I am much more assertive as scum. I am sure that those who played w/me can tell you that much. ~NR


:lol:

Nico might be scum here. I’m curious as to what her replacement does. Oh, have you read the scum PT yet? That’s the best part. :lol: :lol: :lol:

~Still Nancy

still not Ari. :P
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Post Post #1541  (isolation #284)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:50 pm

In post 1519, Tibor and Lumia wrote:I was curious who brought hatcheting up then I remembered Flavor is in the game.
As a replacement question, why was it brought up?
-A very out-of-it Emerald


Is that a unique Flavorism? :lol:
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Post Post #1542  (isolation #285)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:51 pm

In post 1520, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 856, Varsoon wrote:
Spoiler: Not Game Related
Every now and then, I look back at old posts I made and I crack a smile, because damn, I love myself.

Shit like this brightens my day:

Subject: Mini 1856 - This Mafia Game is for pieguyn (Game Over)

Varsoon wrote:
In post 564, SirCakez wrote:Right, except you flipped out, not just "detailing what was wrong with the post"


Until I begin posting videos of Macho Man Randy Savage and making photoshop edits of Charles Barkley, I have not yet flipped out.
Did I go a little hard in the paint?
Sure.
That's what pressure looks like.

Spoiler: continuing the tangent
I looked at your ISO there and you actually apologized to drealmerz in post-game. Ah the time before we realized drealmerz was an awful person.

-the head that played that game


I ‘ll never get that time back. :cry:
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Post Post #1543  (isolation #286)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:59 pm

In post 1528, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 975, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 974, NicoRobin wrote:I clearly said '/in to replace' in the sign-up thread.......


In post 87, NicoRobin wrote:/in to replace



UNVOTE:

wow that's it to your questioning?
-a very perplexed Emerald


My original sr on her was based on thinking she was salty about her role but she in fact, did ask to be a replace in.

However when Stw referenced her naked vote on them, I remembered and confirmed that Nico in Labrynth, adamantly claimed that she was a “flip-based” player who didn’t have reads/votes on D1. Now, I know that Profilhead, referenced that scumgame but I think what someone says as town, should clearly trump, anything they say as scum, so I’m still extremely suspicious of that slot.
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Post Post #1544  (isolation #287)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:02 pm

In post 1534, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1531, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 993, Shoshin the worst wrote:I think it's just Mewtaph and Taly atm but it does not make any sense to me, either.

Looks like it was just Mew tbh. I don't know what their shared meta is rn, Mew/Alchemist care to elucidate me?
-Gamma Emerald, reader of YA literature at age 19


I don’t think I’ve played with Mew before.


Ah, so he isn’t even basing his bad read on meta. His insistence in pushing you for reasons which make 0 sense to me, reads off to me.
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Post Post #1545  (isolation #288)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:03 pm

In post 1537, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1121, Mewtaph wrote:Okay, so here's an expansion of the thought I briefed at the beginning of my - Alchemist has shown themselves to be a competent player in that he appeared active during and after RVS and easily adjusted into a neutral mediator role between Shoshin the worst and Varsoon. He takes multiple opportunities early on to appear present in the thread that seems crafted to achieve nothing but a sense of activity and general noise, but unlike other offenders of this act, shows that they have no particular interest in trying to wrangle active thread control, staying separated from those willing to fight each other over it. Town has no reason to engage with this type of engagement which allows presence but allows for separation from the events taking place for 20 posts, especially when they decide to make , which is a fairly analytical post to sort somebody as town using logic, right?

Except after Alchemist's ISO #0 to #20, he starts to move away from the early dispute and the problem is that his first post () in doing so feels artificial because when directly questioned, he points to the post as a reason to follow him as being town. was disconnected from his original line of thought in that I question if he actually thought of it in the first place. In sum, they've taken multiple stances but have retracted those stances to the point where he's been able to keep his options wide open outside of Varsoon/STW/Mephisto which are easy lynches to strike out as scum, while offering the overall illusion of coinciding ideas of being engaged and sorting the game state out, while failing to achieve either in any way that I believe in.

I could be wrong, but I'm comfortable with the rationale for my vote.

Yo
I want a reason for why you asked me how I read myself with no anticipated answer. That's a question people with pre-existing notions on the subject ask.
-Gamma Emerald, who is probably done for a while as his focus is broken


Yeah, that definitely pinged me.
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Post Post #1546  (isolation #289)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:04 pm

In post 1539, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1525, jjh927 wrote:If you want to meta Nico then do so with the understanding that I replaced in on the slot because she didn't scumtell somewhere I would very much expect one and I like town games. Nico lurking isn't particularly AI ever, especially not now as I believe she's got some IRL stuff.

Otherwise, I have an hour lecture in 15 minutes and then I'll sort some other shit out, and then I will catch up on this game.

ok so you don't scum read your slot, that's a relief!

~ woof


:lol:
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Post Post #1582  (isolation #290)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:51 am

In post 1554, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: Mewtaph
Not going to vanity wagon this.
Also not sure how much free time either of us have before end of day.


Kokichi was a bad vote anyhow.
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Post Post #1583  (isolation #291)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:52 am

In post 1578, u r a person 2 wrote:okay
i'll be back before deadline
and this feels like bad form kinda
but i dont think we've got a wagon on scum atm so maybe this will get traction

VOTE: pinturicchio


I really don’t want vote someone recovering from surgery. :/
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Post Post #1584  (isolation #292)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:55 am

In post 1533, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1021, Taly wrote:oh lol forgot mephisto was in this game again

...ive played with jeanne11... in 2015.

and ive played with nico one game this past year... but it doesnt count since she was mislynched early-game for doing the bare minimum to avoid being replaced

Nico was also part of the Shining Dreamers hydra in Varsoon Variety Hour (Undertale/M:tG/Gundam Mafia for those unaware).
-Gamma Emerald, repository of frivolous information


I had no clue what was even going on in that game, until more than halfway through D2.
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Post Post #1587  (isolation #293)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:00 am

In post 1555, Varsoon wrote:
In post 1553, Krazy wrote:I will grant a 6 hour extension so the new deadline will be in (expired on 2019-01-17 04:00:38).


I appreciate it.
If we end up needing a replacement on anyone, would we get 48 hours+ for that replacement to catchup/post?

I hope Pint's doing okay...

-V


Yeah, and that could be definitely impacting his play, so I’d definitely want to steer clear of a Pint wagon today, for obvious reasons.
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Post Post #1588  (isolation #294)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:02 am

In post 1558, Varsoon wrote:Mewtaph's going to flip town.
Vote Shoshin.


Why? He seems very different here than last game.
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Post Post #1591  (isolation #295)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:09 am

If I switch my vote, it would probably be to Nico/Jjh.
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Post Post #1594  (isolation #296)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:11 am

In post 1589, Shoshin the worst wrote:{STW}
{Varsoon} - either conftown or obvscum. no one forget this ever.
{Meph39}
{Tibor and Lumia}
{Alchemist21}
{u r a person 2, Almost Chara}
^^^ prrrrrobably all town in order of confidence. if I'm wrong on a townread I think it's urap2/ac but I don't feel wrong on them

{ProFlavor}
{Michael Scott}
^^^ old townreads I can't remember if I like anymore

untiered:
Kokichi
jjh927
Mewtaph
Taly


Is your untiered list, ordered?

If so, why is Taly at the bottom? I have a hard gut townread on him.

Also, why does Profilhead seem kind of townie and Eraserleaf, more like flaming scum?
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Post Post #1595  (isolation #297)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:15 am

In post 1593, Shoshin the worst wrote:I soulread scum on jjh/Nico but I really like jjh and we don't get to play together much and I don't wanna fuck that up d1


That’s not a good reason for not voting there.

If you “soulread scum” on that slot, then you should be 100% voting that slot. You would prefer to risk a mislynch, rather than lynch someone you sr but like to play with?

What??????????????????????????????????????????
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Post Post #1596  (isolation #298)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:16 am

VOTE: jjh
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Post Post #1601  (isolation #299)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:56 am

In post 1599, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1597, ProFlavor wrote:Anyone who doesn’t want to vote STW can you tell me why the difficulty of getting the wagon together isn’t scum indicative please

~ woof

We're like
overwhelmingly obviously town
even comparing to SCM1 where both heads were hard townread as scum d1 lol


No offense but this isn’t exactly a great argument. :lol:
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Post Post #1602  (isolation #300)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:09 am

In post 1598, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1550, Krazy wrote:
Votecount 1.14
Shoshin the worst(4) ~ (170), (45), (128), (17)
Mewtaph(3) ~ (71), (293), (93)
pinturicchio(2) ~ (109), (116)
jjh927(2) ~ (65), (111)
u r a person 2(1) ~ (45)
Kokichi Oma(1) ~ (238)


Not Voting (1): (11)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-17 04:00:38)


MOD REMINDERSpinturicchio needs a prod. The last post was at: 1/12/2019 9:31:00 PM which was 2 days 19 hours 21 minutes 16 seconds ago. -- might be on health V/LA
Taly needs a prod. The last post was at: 1/12/2019 6:04:00 PM which was 2 days 22 hours 48 minutes 16 seconds ago.

FLAVOR
Spoiler:


Going for tiered empathy on our voters it's basically
Mewtaph >>> Varsoon > ProFlavor > Kokichi

It kinda checks out for Mewtaph to be like AW NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN as town and vote us. I can't decide if the freezing in real-time thing is more likely to come from scum or town if I'm completely honest. From one perspective it does suck to be bombed with questions and ridicule as scum who feels like you're doing well so reacting with like "ew you suck" because I'm not townreading him. but on the flip side this COULD be a genuine considered reaction given last time I reached out to him I was going for a last minute pocket before lolhammering him.

Maybe scum!Mewtaph thinks harder about the optics of not talking to us at all in real-time, putting us down then disappearing? I don't really know, anyone wanna check his scum meta or...?

Varsoon's push on us is offensively outside the realm of common sense and I've spoken about it a lot but I think the fact I'm genuinely annoyed by it says something

Pro's vote on us is frankly pockety and I've documented my wall of issues with the nonsense they're spewing.

Kokichi's play vs. {AC, us} is transparent self defence and...isn't towny....


I still think Mew could be scum, I guess it depends whether or not Pint is. If one flips red, I think the other also, has good odds of also flipping red.

In YGM, town!Flavor was mindmelding with my slot and we only got suspicious of him, due his blatant rolefishing,

I dunno, I think Varsoon is paranoid town here. Like, finally I can speak about this now. I would be treating your slot the exact same way he is, if you guys were Mastina. For me generallly speaking (short of other mitigating factors), I now autoread Mastina as scum, until proven otherwise.

I disagree about Kokochi actually. That kind of OMGUSSY type was of early vote is more likely to come from town at best and NAI at worst. Scum usually tries to avoid that because they care more about looking townie than game solving and they know OMGUS votes don’t look good. I could obviously be wrong but I don’t really view it as scum indicative.
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Post Post #1604  (isolation #301)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:36 am

In post 1603, ProFlavor wrote:I was checked out of YGM basically the entire time I was involved in it.
~Leaf


But with the exception of the rolefishing which majorly pinged us, I was mindmelding with you a lot otherwise. I’m not here.
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Post Post #1660  (isolation #302)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:13 pm

In post 1622, Varsoon wrote:Who started that goofy 'soul read' nonsense?
I can't stand it
It's like
If it's a gut read, just say that
'soul read' implies something more and it's goofed
like
Oh man I did the tarot cards for you and I destiny-read you as town but doomed to bring calamity
like what the shit is that
get that outta here

soul read

stupid.

-Soon


I consult the psychic friends’ network, before every mafia game. :P
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Post Post #1661  (isolation #303)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:21 pm

In post 1648, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 5, Krazy wrote:GAME START PLAYER ORDER -- RANDOMIZED

1. Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra)
2. Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra)
3. Mewtaph
4. u r a person 2
5. AlmostChara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra)
6. Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra)
7. pinturucchio
8. nicorobin
9. ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra)
10. Kokichi Oma
11. Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra)
12. alchemist21
13. Taly
14. Varsoon

Votecount 1.1


Not Voting (14): Shoshin the worst(0), Varsoon(0), Mephistophanes 39(0), Almost Chara(0), Michael Scott(0), Kokichi Oma(0), Tibor and Lumia(0), NicoRobin(0), Mewtaph(0), Alchemist21(0), ProFlavor(0), u r a person 2(0), pinturicchio(0), Taly(0)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-16 22:05:05)


FLAVOR

i wish this was in the first post, because that order is static and this one appears to be the one that will matter.

Kokichi, you need to play the game too.
~Chara


Could this explain why Varsoon is Stw vig failed - re: the bolded?
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Post Post #1662  (isolation #304)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:23 pm

And why is Kokichi a better lynch, MS over jjh/Nico who has arguably much higher scum equity? I still extremely dislike Mew’s play here.
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Post Post #1663  (isolation #305)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:26 pm

In post 1550, Krazy wrote:
Votecount 1.14
Shoshin the worst(4) ~ (170), (45), (128), (17)
Mewtaph(3) ~ (71), (293), (93)
pinturicchio(2) ~ (109), (116)
jjh927(2) ~ (65), (111)
u r a person 2(1) ~ (45)
Kokichi Oma(1) ~ (238)


Not Voting (1): (11)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-17 04:00:38)


MOD REMINDERSpinturicchio needs a prod. The last post was at: 1/12/2019 9:31:00 PM which was 2 days 19 hours 21 minutes 16 seconds ago. -- might be on health V/LA
Taly needs a prod. The last post was at: 1/12/2019 6:04:00 PM which was 2 days 22 hours 48 minutes 16 seconds ago.

FLAVOR
Spoiler:
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Post Post #1666  (isolation #306)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:34 pm

In post 1664, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 1600, Shoshin the worst wrote:I'll switch to jjh as a sheer compromise but if that slot's town we'll start to see it.


I would've been fine with a Nico lynch but it seems like JJH plays in a non-lurk way and I trust that we'll start to see if it's town.

And Kokichi? I don't think so. We'll just continue to have that bad quality play, where he could be any alignment, and still a liability to town in my eyes.

Nancy, I think you tend to dislike anyone who begins to scumread you, so you do carry some bias I think - but Mewtaph's posts actually carry a lot of depth in them - compare to any scumgame of his, I think there's a slight difference. *shrug* Need to do a deeper study but I'm leaning town slightly.

Shoshin actually began to scumread Mew less recently, and I think that's kinda town-indicative for her, since scum!STW would be survivalistic and probably try to push the second-biggest wagon.

~Jimothy


*Sigh*. I’m really getting tired of both you and Chara discrediting my extremely valid opinions wrt to Mew, You both are free to disagree with my reasoning but it’s really infuriating me, that you both decide that you know what I think, better than I do. :/

I’m not interested on lynching a slot solely based on a dislike of playstyle differences, I want to lynch scum or rather, “mislynch” scum. :lol:
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Post Post #1668  (isolation #307)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:35 pm

In post 1665, Michael Scott wrote:Can you hide big quotes in spoilers (unless *super important*)? It makes the game easier to read, generally. :P

~J


I tried that and the formatting got completely messed up.
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Post Post #1674  (isolation #308)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:50 pm

In post 1670, Michael Scott wrote:@Meph:

Can you concisely state your list of reasons to scumread Mew? We can talk about it.
I'm not deciding that I know what you think, I'm saying that IME you generally tended to scumread people who scumread you, so inductively it may hold here as well, contributing some bias.

I think Kokichi is pro-scum, it's not a simple matter of disliking his playstyle.

Let's talk about Mew, since you scumread him.

~Jimothy


I extremely dislike having my opinions discredited based on someone telling me what I think claiming to know my reasoning better than me. You of course are free to disagree with the actual reasons themselves. Just please stop telling me that my reasons are something other than they are. Neither you or Chara has access to my brain and I would greatly prefer that you both stop acting like you do.

A) He hardpushes Alchemist for reasons that make little sense, considering he has no meta on him and I know for a fact, his play is virtually identical to his play in OK 2.

3). Mew’s play is extremely different here than in SC1.

4) Weird Gamma question.

5) Scumly PL lynch bs.

6) Baseless hostility.

However, if Pint is green. it makes Mew look a lot better here, since I think they could possibly be linked.

I feel more confident where my vote is currently as jjh has done nothing to couner my scumlean on Nico.

Kokichi is probably mislynchbait and am not currently seeing anything scummy there. I too didn’t like Stw’s jump on him, especially after 1195, where town!Nico doubled and tripled down on being a “flip-based” player, so I think our best chance of hitting scum today, is lynching that slot.
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Post Post #1676  (isolation #309)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:52 pm

In post 1673, pinturicchio wrote:Quick update: I'm feeling better. I had a doctor appointment in the morning and told me that what I'm feeling is pretty common and that was a relief. I have a kinesiologist appointment in an hour or so. I'll be back to slam dunk this mother fucker. There's a lot of pages to read tho, can I get an update on the game status? I'll try to read everything but because of the deadline I can't promise that.

Thanks to everyone concerned about my health; I didn't know I could V/LA because of it and knowing that was nice in order to keep playing.


Just take care of yourself. Your health > Mafia.
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Post Post #1677  (isolation #310)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:55 pm

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh
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Post Post #1683  (isolation #311)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:19 pm

In post 1680, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 1674, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:I extremely dislike having my opinions discredited based on someone telling me what I think claiming to know my reasoning better than me. You of course are free to disagree with the actual reasons themselves. Just please stop telling me that my reasons are something other than they are. Neither you or Chara has access to my brain and I would greatly prefer that you both stop acting like you do.

Where'd I say this? I just said you appear to have bias. It's a valid observation from an external perspective that doesn't require me to know what you truly think, Nancy.

In post 1674, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:A) He hardpushes Alchemist for reasons that make little sense, considering he has no meta on him and I know for a fact, his play is virtually identical to his play in OK 2.

3). Mew’s play is extremely different here than in SC1.

4) Weird Gamma question.

5) Scumly PL lynch bs.

6) Baseless hostility.

Weird numbering, but okay:
A) You're talking about post - if it made little sense to you, did you ask him to clarify? My best paraphrasing of that rather wordy post is: "Alchemist appears to be present without actually offering any opinions of merit to an exchange, this is scummy; feels artificial; took multiple stances but retracted them leaving options wide open" - these strike me as fine points to make, what about them is senseless?
3) Can you expand on the differences? And also note similarities with his scumgames?
4) He explained the motivation behind that question, I submit it's not weird - "Do you expect me to townread you for what you've posted so far" (not exactly what he asked but the spirit of it) is a fine question, and he did make use of the reaction.
5) Why is it scummy, exactly? His point was that you were making it hard for him to engage/push his scumread and not because of logical disagreements, if I remember right - can you really not see town saying this?
6) This is something I checked against his meta, and he's not been hostile in previous scumgames as far as I read, so I don't see why it's necessarily... scummy, again? So many people come off as a bit "hostile" as town.

~J


Whether or not either Chara or you rightly or wrongly think I “appear to have bias” or not is 100% besides the point. You either think my reasoning valid or you don’t and I really doubt it’s asking too much for either of you to limit your critique of my reasons, to those reasons, since that’s actually what is relevant.

Yeah, the weird numbering wasn’t intentional.

Well, I just didn’t buy his reasoning for sr Alchemist.

As I said, Mew acted extremely differently in last game but if you have any links to his previous town/scumgames, that would be much appreciated.

I tend to scumlean any player who advocates a stupid PL without just cause. ie. Aa9 was virulently ant-town in Labrynth. both by role and play. Mylo was never going to vote in Heroes - a game heavily vased on an active player voting mechnic and wanted out of the game. Advocating PLs on either, is not scummy, since both of them, were hurting the integrity of the game.

Why hasn’t Mew even bothered to engage me here - just calls for a PL on my slot without even attempting to discuss my read on him? It read uberscummy to me.

However, I prefer jjh/Nico because my confidence in that slot flipping red, is currently the highest.
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Post Post #1687  (isolation #312)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:25 pm

In post 1682, Michael Scott wrote:Yes. ProFlavor, Mewtaph and Kokichi are all strongly pushing that wagon.

Please do read Mew's ISO, he has been more active - he's being pushed for a bunch of reasons I don't really agree with, and I'm leaning town from his posts. I'd love to hear your opinions on that slot.

Sure thing :D

~Jimothy


Yes and before that Mew was on Alchemist, which Eraserhead also seemed to be shading slightly

But seeing either a towngame of his, where he played similarly to here or a scumgame, where he played completely differently would be helpful.

If it comes down to Mew vs Stw, I’ll probably vote Mew but I much prefer jjh/Nico and I hope I can convince people to sheep me there, since I think that wagon currently has the highest scum equity.
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Post Post #1688  (isolation #313)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:26 pm

In post 1687, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1682, Michael Scott wrote:Yes. ProFlavor, Mewtaph and Kokichi are all strongly pushing that wagon.

Please do read Mew's ISO, he has been more active - he's being pushed for a bunch of reasons I don't really agree with, and I'm leaning town from his posts. I'd love to hear your opinions on that slot.

Sure thing :D

~Jimothy


Yes and before that Mew was on Alchemist, which Eraserhead also seemed to be shading slightly

But seeing either a towngame of his, where he played similarly to here or a scumgame, where he played completely differently would be helpful.

If it comes down to Mew vs Stw, I’ll probably vote Mew but I much prefer jjh/Nico and I hope I can convince people to sheep me there, since I think that SLOT currently has the highest scum equity.


I mean slot, obviously. :lol:
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Post Post #1694  (isolation #314)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:33 pm

In post 1689, Michael Scott wrote:@Nance:

That you appear to have bias makes me less inclined to sheep you easily; and also informs others not to; and also helps you better reads if it does exist and you recognize it, thus pro-town. :P

You said it was senseless and you don't buy it. His reasoning was devoid of meta, why would he need to have meta-knowledge to make that attack? Fine if you don't "buy" his attack, but scumreading him for it is a stretch, no? If you don't agree with it, it's NAI - unless you show me why his arguments were scummy.

I just went to his profile and read around three scumgames exclusively - his general posting seemed to be slightly shallower, and nowhere as complex as here. I'd like you to show the differences in his play exactly from SC1 to here, though? I'll know better what to look for when I go check his previous games.

Eh, it wasn't exactly a PL - he did have some reason to want to lynch you which was related to the current game. My current push on Kokichi Oma could also be construed as a "Policy Lynch" - do you think I'm scummy for it?

WRT his engaging you - prioritization (he wanted to push on stronger scumreads), and also you just called his push senseless and left it at that - I actually don't think this is as scummy as you make it out to be.

Why are you more confident in Nico than Kokichi? Do you not trust Shoshin when she says JJH will be readable in time?

~Jimothy


Town has erred far more frequently NOT sheeping me actually. I have better than average reads and I really don’t appreciate you continuing to discredit me, based on bias that you incorrectly attribute to me.

I asked you for links. I prefer to make up my own mind. TW also said he he had a strong scum soulread on that slot. Did you not see that?

Why wait on that lynch, when it currently has the greatest scum equity, is what I’d like to know?
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Post Post #1697  (isolation #315)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:38 pm

In post 1691, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1135, ProFlavor wrote:Prediction: when FL catches up and sees this post he should read Michael Scott’s Iso

The prediction is at this stage of the game he will call it “political” or at least agree a to why I said that haha

I'm interested. They have the least posts out of all the hydrae and by a decent margin (all the others are around the top for post count).
-Gamma, lover of strong burgers
Spoiler:
Image


Eraserleaf’s bizarro moonlogic, doesn’t help any either.

I’m thinking Pint and Mew have a decent chance of being the same alignment and knowing that Pint had a valid reason for being less active in the game, also makes me feel a bit better about Mew.

But Stw on the whole has better reads but I strongly believe our best chance of hitting scum today, is jjh/Nico.
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Post Post #1701  (isolation #316)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:44 pm

In post 1698, Michael Scott wrote:@Nancy:
It's not a discredit - inductively I'm allowed to make that observation, and I'm not using it to say you're wrong. If I'm wrong about the bias that *I* perceive of you having, people are free to disagree. :P

Look at STW's read progression there on Mewtaph. In their latest readslist they actually scumread Mewtaph less IIRC. Anyway, soulreads are stupid.

Why does it have the greatest scum equity? My argument is that if it IS scum, we'd more easily know in coming days than Kokichi's slot, *also* Kokichi's play is a liability for town.

~Jimothy


Only for the reasons Varsoon stated. Like, I was initially lowkey sr Taly and then nullreading him and going back and forth. It was somewhere between 2/3 - 3/4 into his argument with Stw, where I just had this aha moment that Taly was town. I’m very rarely wrong when that happens. This is why I feel so frustrated with Stw synchronized reads thing, because it makes it virtually impossible for me to get that with that kind of play.
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Post Post #1702  (isolation #317)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:47 pm

In post 1701, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1698, Michael Scott wrote:@Nancy:
It's not a discredit - inductively I'm allowed to make that observation, and I'm not using it to say you're wrong. If I'm wrong about the bias that *I* perceive of you having, people are free to disagree. :P

Look at STW's read progression there on Mewtaph. In their latest readslist they actually scumread Mewtaph less IIRC. Anyway, soulreads are stupid.

Why does it have the greatest scum equity? My argument is that if it IS scum, we'd more easily know in coming days than Kokichi's slot, *also* Kokichi's play is a liability for town.

~Jimothy


Only for the reasons Varsoon stated. Like, I was initially lowkey sr Taly and then nullreading him and going back and forth. It was somewhere between 2/3 - 3/4 into his argument with Stw, where I just had this aha moment that Taly was town. I’m very rarely wrong when that happens. This is why I feel so frustrated with Stw synchronized reads thing, because it makes it virtually impossible for me to get that with that kind of play.


I think Kokichi has a much much greater likelihood of flipping green than either Mew or jjh/Nico but ESPECIALLY jjh/Nico.
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Post Post #1704  (isolation #318)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:49 pm

In post 1699, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1195, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:To anyone who thinks Nico’s vote on Stw, is completely NAI:


https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76341&user_select%5B%5D=31019


In post 782, NicoRobin wrote:
In post 779, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Vartsun


You mean Varsoon right? Nico wasn't in Splatoon mafia.


That link was from Labrynth, where Nico was macho hardclaimed cop on D2.
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Post Post #1706  (isolation #319)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:52 pm

Spoiler:
In post 1703, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1216, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1200, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 567, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 543, Varsoon wrote:Just gonna bring this into overdrive, actually, and go for the dunk.
Day Vig: Shoshin the Worst

Actually lack of flavour is likely fake

So stw, why didn’t you state you thought this when I asked?
-MC Gamma

I stated the thought the exact moment it occurred to me.

Oh...
In post 567, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 543, Varsoon wrote:Just gonna bring this into overdrive, actually, and go for the dunk.
Day Vig: Shoshin the Worst

Actually lack of flavour is likely fake
In post 997, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 995, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 543, Varsoon wrote:Just gonna bring this into overdrive, actually, and go for the dunk.
Day Vig: Shoshin the Worst

Oh nice
brass mentioned this but I wanted to see for myself what the deal was.
First impression would be this is a reaction test, but I think I saw V For Vendetta saying he meant this.
Since stw is still alive I'll ask: how did you survive, stw?
-Gamma "the hipfire king" Emerald

i literally do not know, Varsoon & AC have been speculating about it but it's not interesting to me

REALLY?
-Gamma, dunking on skrubs


It’s extremely interesting to me as well. How can it not be interesting to everyone?
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Post Post #1708  (isolation #320)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:00 pm

In post 1707, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1257, Mewtaph wrote:Lynch pool for being scummy: {Alchemist21, Almost Chara, Shoshin the worst}
Up for policy lynch: {Nancy}

Steamrolling with the biggest wagon that forms on any of these three + Nancy.

Yeah hol up why's Nancy up for policy, what policy worthy things has she done?
-A very disturbed Emerald


+1

Thank you for this. Between Chara and MS, I was beginning to question my very valid problem with that.
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Post Post #1711  (isolation #321)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:09 pm

In post 1709, Michael Scott wrote:He did explain his rationale later, are you not reading the thread T&L?
If you're doing some stream-of-consciousness thing I hope you'd consider writing one large post instead, so you can update it when you find the answer.

@Nancy: He stated why and I restated it too, you still haven't explained why it's scummy

~Jimothy


I DID explain it. Either you missed it or disagreed. Why haven’t you posted the links I keep asking you for?
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Post Post #1712  (isolation #322)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:11 pm

In post 1525, jjh927 wrote:If you want to meta Nico then do so with the understanding that I replaced in on the slot because she didn't scumtell somewhere I would very much expect one and I like town games. Nico lurking isn't particularly AI ever, especially not now as I believe she's got some IRL stuff.

Otherwise, I have an hour lecture in 15 minutes and then I'll sort some other shit out, and then I will catch up on this game.


What is your response to 1195?
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Post Post #1717  (isolation #323)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:16 pm

In post 1713, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1326, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 1236, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 588, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 585, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I don't understand why you think there's no town motivation in our slot pushing/scumreading you. It's pretty simple. We scumread you.
The fact you can't engage with me about why we shouldn't scumread you or should townread you had me baffled.


I believe that there can be a town motivation for scumreading me. I didn't say town!you town!reads me 100%

We can post game why I'm not into reading myself in the thread. It basically boils down to the wifom/not wifom discussion you're in the middle of and my having no interest in having those types of discussions

The problem we're having here is that you kicked off this rabbit hole discussion by voting us because you believe town!tw should be townreading you, plus the hydra dynamic which for the umpteenth time should not be deemed alignment indicative.

I'm trying to parse how you came to the conclusion that it's scum indicative for us to be scumreading you and pushing you just because the worst and you have history. I still do not understand your rationale here.

If you think TW should >rand be townreading you, we definitely need a better metric against which to measure your towntells, because it means what we are doing at the moment is on the wrong track.

This conversation is pretty important. If you do need to back out of it for holistic playstyle/meta reasons we understand but also please try to see that from our perspective, that leaves you joining out wagon late into its formation for almost exactly no reason...


In post 591, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I could give it a go with pintu but I'm not sure it'd get me anywhere.

I'm pocketed without the need of you doing anything <3

@Varsoon, I have a towntell on the duck, on the same line of your "stretch your minds" of Shoshin. I've seen the duck using the "holistical reads" as town before and can't recall him doing it as scum.

By the way @duck, why scumreading us? Felt like it came out of nowhere.

-Pin


TW actually used the phrase “holistic playstyle/meta reasons” here, not “holistical reads”. I looked into this, and TW using phrases like “holistic meta” or “holistic read” is definitely not a towntell for him. In fact, he used the phrase “holistic meta” in the first Starcraft game (as scum) four different times. I searched TW’s posts for the phrases “holistic meta”, “holistic read”, “holistic play”, and “holistic playstyle” as this is what I found:

TW has used the phrase “holistic meta” four times in the first Starcraft game as scum (link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970):

Link to the first post where he used “holistic meta”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10584202&hilit=+holistic+meta#p10584202

In post 517, the worst wrote:
In post 278, Varsoon wrote:P-EDIT:

Everything above the pedit is cringe
Everything below the pedit is locktown-irl

Varsoon I think you're really caught up on like holistic meta stuff and I'm like... not all that interested in it.... do you think the reads have been bad? maliciously intended? which ones? why?


Link to the second post where he used “holistic meta”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10595081&hilit=+holistic+meta#p10595081

In post 1594, the worst wrote:But I'm also wary of the fact I'm fucking easily triggered by people using bullshit holistic meta tells so I might be seeing red


Link to the third post where he used “holistic meta”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10595151&hilit=+holistic+meta#p10595151

In post 1638, the worst wrote:since no one is seeing what I'm seeing:
Mewtaph has asked Xtoxm the same question a lot of us have already asked him (which townreads gave him pause)

I think he's already answered that question really well, and I think his answer was town indicative. Mewtaph has ignored his reads and later contribution and comments about playstyle anxiety leading him to freak out about the early townreads. Follow his reads and it's probably pretty clear that he had his own takes, but the Big Bad Townblock was too much for him to like.

Mewtaph thinks he's a mislynch / has not noticed that Xtoxm's initial freak-out about the townreadspam actually kinda checks out, so shades him for not responding and votes him over ellitell

I ask Mewtaph to back the ellitell up with an actual scumcase. He cites the very early part of Xtoxm's contributions. I ask him to go back to his later iso and show me which of Xtoxm's posts are making him still feel that way

Nancy randomly charge-tackles me to the ground and Mewtaph stands there watching us and acting all surprised that I asked him to back up this read.

Like idfk he hasn't warlocked Nancy, she did it of her own volition but I'm fucking done if I'm being shaded for asking someone who's done sweet fuck all to back up a horseshit holistic meta tell with an actual scumcase on a slot I'm townreading


Link to the fourth post where he used “holistic meta”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10615025&hilit=+holistic+meta#p10615025

In post 2977, the worst wrote:
In post 2975, Xtoxm wrote:I have to be able to trust that townies won't make reckless antitown plays like that.

You for real? I think Perf is scum but his hammer is the most defensible part of his ISO. The hell else was he meant to do with like 6 hours remaining? NM was clearly a very viable lynch candidate and imo if he was going to claim at all he would have already done it.

I'm kinda flashing back to something someone said to me pretty recently but if scum always made reckless antitown moves and town never did mafia would be like.. obscenely easier than it is. do you have reasoning other than an holistic meta dislike of hammers on unclaimed slots?



TW used the phrases “holistic meta” and “holistic gamestate read” one time each in Newbie 1866 as town (link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76047)

Link to the post where he used “holistic meta”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76047&p=10178131&hilit=+holistic+meta#p10178131

Link to the post where he used “holistic gamestate read”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76047&p=10201152&hilit=+holistic+read#p10201152


TW used the phrase “holistic readthrough” one time In Newbie 1870 as town (link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76282)

Link to the post where he used “holistic readthrough”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76282&p=10264643&hilit=+holistic+read#p10264643


TW used the phrase “holistic read” one time in Open 737 as town (link: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77146)

Link to the post where he used “holistic read”: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77146&p=10453007&hilit=+holistic+read#p10453007

No results came up for “holistic play” or “holistic playstyle” when searching TW’s posts.

Granted, TW has used phrases like “holistic read” or something along those lines as town, but in this game the exact phrase he used in post was “holistic playstyle/meta reasons”, and he has used “holistic meta” four times as much as scum than he has as town. In any case, TW frequently uses the word “holistic” in general (there are 41 results for just the word “holistic” when searching TW’s posts), so at best him using the phrase “holistic playstyle/meta reasons” is NAI for him. So @Pinturicchio, why were you so quick to label this as a “towntell” for TW when it clearly isn’t?

And @The Worst, what are your thoughts on Pinturicchio incorrectly applying this as a “towntell” for your slot?

- Date Mike (Volxen)


Acupuncture has nothing on “holistic meta”, I guess. :lol:

Interesting.

~N

Large multiquote spoilered -- Krazy

wat
-Gamma, who's prolly gonna be out of here in a bit


It was a joke and thank you, @Krazy. <3
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Post Post #1719  (isolation #324)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:23 pm

In post 1714, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 1711, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:I DID explain it. Either you missed it or disagreed. Why haven’t you posted the links I keep asking you for?

I recall saying it wasn't exactly a PL, but his point was that you were obfuscating / cluttering the thread or something preventing him from engaging / pushing a scumread; I can see why he thought that, why wouldn't town!Mew think this?

Sorry, I seem to have missed your response to my argument, can you requote/restate it? I'm not finding it on skimming.

As to links - I'm on my phone and about to go to bed, just go to his topics and click on some games I guess. But since you already have experience with him, I asked you to detail the differences in his play - can you, please?

~J


This is only my second game with him and I don’t recall him being either this hostile or antagonistic to anyone and I know he’s sore I was one of the people who mislynched him last game but I wouldn’t have, had he claimed sooner.

Mew is a lot more aggressive in pushing his reads here, than in last game and he actively tried to engaged those sr him there, kind of like Bono did here.

Again, I disliked his reasoning for his Alchemist push, the strange Gamma question and PL push, which I’ve already mentioned.

That’s why I need to check out his games, to make sure my judgement is accurate.
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Post Post #1720  (isolation #325)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:24 pm

In post 1718, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1411, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Also Eraserhead/Leaf, please explain to me in what world advocating a policy lynch on our slot is not even remotely scummy. And what about Mew’s weirdass Gamma question?

What possible town motivation is there in Mew asking Gamma if he should townread her?


I’m waiting. :popcorn:

I can see town motivation in the question. I CanNOT see town motivation in asking it in sucha throwaway manner like Mew did.
-Gamma, lord of obscure references


Hmmm . . . interesting. Yeah, didn’t he say, he wasn’t expecting an answer iirc?
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Post Post #1725  (isolation #326)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:33 pm

In post 1722, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1708, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Thank you for this. Between Chara and MS, I was beginning to question my very valid problem with that.

why do i keep getting brought up with MS even when i've removed myself from that conversation on purpose?
if it'll keep this from happening constantly anymore: i thought about what you said and you're right that i shouldn't be telling you how you're thinking.
~Chara


Thank you, I appreciate that. <3
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Post Post #1728  (isolation #327)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:35 pm

In post 1455, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1451, Almost Chara wrote:at the risk of sounding like an absolute asshole, i'd like you to reconsider how much you've mentioned the PL thing. it's a lot more than Mewtaph has mentioned it. (he did so once and never pursued it.)
~Chara

this is actually incorrect now that i think about it properly. he did push the angle a lot. sorry Nancy. :<

Spoiler:
regardless i still think my original point about how the read isn't that scummy, and your problem is that he advocates to lynch you specifically.

~Chara


@T & L
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Post Post #1729  (isolation #328)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:36 pm

In post 1727, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1468, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1466, ProFlavor wrote:@Gamma - should I be town reading you here?

You haven’t been on my radar too much, so I’d like to know.

~Leaf


Wtf answer was Gamma supposed to give to that? Like seriously?

Like is she supposed to say, so glad you asked me that Mew, of course you shouldn’t. Thank you so much for helping clarify my own alignment to myself.

You are misconstruing this post.
-Gamma


How?
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Post Post #1733  (isolation #329)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:55 pm

Fascinating, I just ISO’d both a Mew scum and towngame and town!Mew is kind of a sweetie and scum!Mew is super aggressive.

Town!Mew’s play in that towngame was identical to his play in SC1, so rudeness for Mew, could definitely be a scumtell.
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Post Post #1736  (isolation #330)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:03 pm

In Deathnote Mafia, he was town and nice to everyone, just like he was in SC1. but in Valentines Day Mafia, he was nasty like here.

2) » March 9th, 2017, 8:21 pm
In post 1190, PenguinPower wrote:
Trans! Your opinion doesn't matter!

Thanks for talking past me, asshole.


I'm leaving. ~ Mewtaph


Mew was scum in VDM.

Coincidence?
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Post Post #1737  (isolation #331)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:06 pm

In post 1735, Tibor and Lumia wrote:Oh here comes Brass having to try to work with people and get things done. I'd rather settle this STW Varsoon shit and not have it be a distraction day 2 than lose Nico's replacement.

VOTE: STW

We really should not be this goddamned far from a lunch with 12 hours to go. I am not staying up until 3 am to hammer if people sperg to another wagon.

-Brass


Why is Nico’s replacement more important to the game, than Stw?

I can switch back to Mew, who I think may be scum afterall, due to rudeness tell.
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Post Post #1743  (isolation #332)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:20 pm

In post 1739, Varsoon wrote:Where was Mew rude in this game?

-V


In post 1565, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 1544, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1534, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1531, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 993, Shoshin the worst wrote:I think it's just Mewtaph and Taly atm but it does not make any sense to me, either.

Looks like it was just Mew tbh. I don't know what their shared meta is rn, Mew/Alchemist care to elucidate me?
-Gamma Emerald, reader of YA literature at age 19

I don’t think I’ve played with Mew before.

Ah, so he isn’t even basing his bad read on meta. His insistence in pushing you for reasons which make 0 sense to me, reads off to me.

I'm not playing in any games with you after this tbh, so you can stick "meta" up your ass.
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Post Post #1744  (isolation #333)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:21 pm

In post 1740, Varsoon wrote:Also, I don't really know that a 'rudeness tell' holds weight.
correlation is not causation

-V


jjh is still a better wagon and the one most likely to flip red, imo.
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Post Post #1782  (isolation #334)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:11 pm

In post 1752, Shoshin the worst wrote:{STW}
{Varsoon} - either conftown or obvscum. no one forget this ever.
{Meph39}
{Tibor and Lumia}
{Alchemist21}
{u r a person 2, Almost Chara}
{Michael Scott}

untiered PoE
{ProFlavor, Kokichi, jjh927, Mewtaph, Taly}

will lynch anyone in this pool unless convinced otherwise.


Not lynching Taly. I have a hard gut townread on him and think Kokichi is probably a mislynch.

Talk to me about Eraserhead.



My preference based on this:

jjh
Mew/Eraserhead


——————


Kokichi


Taly isn’t an option.
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Post Post #1787  (isolation #335)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:17 pm

In post 1776, Shoshin the worst wrote:I'm struggling with where as well. We have like 12 hours left.
If I was a vig I'd be vigging ProFlavor because I don't think I have the energy levels/charisma to push through that lynch. Taly would be great too but I don't think I'm getting the support. Mewtaph I'm a little colder on. Kokichi is obvscum but I'm getting yelled at for voting him. jjh is my least preferred thru sheer inactivity. it's a compromise I'll do but still a compromise.


Why is Taly scum?

And how is Kokichi “obvscum” opposed to just bad town?

Why is once again no one listening to me, that jjh/Nico is very likely scum here? :facepalm:
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Post Post #1795  (isolation #336)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:20 pm

In post 1784, Shoshin the worst wrote:I realise there's a nil chance of getting a Taly lynch across the line today.
Otherwise our reads are fairly similar. Why do you think Kokichi is a mislynch tho?

and which one's Eraserhead?


Good because I think Taly’s town.

Because his (Kokichi’s) posts don’t read fake to me, like they do when he’s scum. It’s not a superstrong read but I think he’s more likely to be a mislynch than not, at this point.

Eraserhead=ProFlavor
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Post Post #1798  (isolation #337)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:27 pm

In post 1789, Shoshin the worst wrote:Sell me on jjh>koki? (bussing atm)

@Vars I think I'm fairly outside my scumrange IDK about head#1

In post 1790, Varsoon wrote:
In post 1745, Varsoon wrote:Why's JJH a better wagon now?

Also, I could drop like 20 scumtells right now, want me to?
Tells are garbage, meta's unreliable in forum mafia, etc. etc.
I'm the dude that got banned for making it reliable
You think people would listen to me on that point

-V


I don't know if you ever addressed this, Mephisto
People are listening.
Make your case.

-V


1195

In Labrynth, town!Nico doubled and tripled down that she was a “flip-based” player and didn’t vote on D1 and then she puts a naked vote on Stw, before replacing out. What has jjh done here that is townie?

Scum!Nico also placed on RVS vote on RR, due to some game-related vendetta, never moved it and then replaced out. Plus there was the whole AtE about her being upset about being “shanghaid” into the game. Perhaps, her Baa bah blacksheep thing was even a possible scumclaim? She actually crumbs as scum, seriously.

jjh’s entrance didn’t exactly give me townie vibes either.
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Post Post #1812  (isolation #338)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:39 pm

In post 1811, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 1808, Shoshin the worst wrote:yeah I trust jjh to chase a townslot if he can at all and obviously he is gonna have to explain what that tell he didn't see was d2, if it's not convincing and he doesn't towntell he's an easy redflip


And more likely to be one than Kokichi imo.

I have more confidence in Eraserhead flipping scum than Kokichi.
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Post Post #1824  (isolation #339)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:00 pm

In post 1195, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:To anyone who thinks Nico’s vote on Stw, is completely NAI:


https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76341&user_select%5B%5D=31019


In post 782, NicoRobin wrote:
In post 779, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I wanted to vote for TPkAF but but I didn’t want to let it rand. I ISOd Nico and compared it with her other games, where she least had one original thought. To reference Vartsun, Nico is the epitome of “lurk-ass scum” in this game.


Did I have an 'original thought' on D1 of those games?

Note: Steven Universe 2 mafia and Mini 1936 don't count, cos I was confirmed town-aligned in both of those.

Prove to me that those 'original throughts' were made on D1 of at least three games. If you can't, then your read is a bunch of bs.

In post 784, NicoRobin wrote:I just told I don't have original though on freaking D1 and you are demanding one from me anyway. If you wanna read me, then at least try learning how I play as town and as scum before jumping to baseless conclusions.

In post 786, NicoRobin wrote:I never have reads on D1.

In post 788, NicoRobin wrote:Those who know how I play, tell her I do not, cos she clearly won't listen to me.

In post 789, NicoRobin wrote:
In post 787, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 785, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 784, NicoRobin wrote:I just told I don't have original though on freaking D1 and you are demanding one from me anyway. If you wanna read me, then at least try learning how I play as town and as scum before jumping to baseless conclusions.


Answer the damn question instead of being so defensive.

You’ve had two freaking weeks! I don’t believe you have no reads by now.


Randomidget subbed in after you and they’ve been doing a helluva a lot more than you and Creature put together.


That's their playstyle, this is mine. I am not suddenly gonna be able to produce good accurate reads on D1 because I am a flip-based player. So unless you want me to pull random names out of a hat and declare them scum, you're not gonna have reads from me yet.
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Post Post #1829  (isolation #340)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:04 pm

In post 1828, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 1825, u r a person 2 wrote:just caught up

VOTE: kochiki
best flip on option


jjh is but no one is listening to me. :/
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Post Post #1831  (isolation #341)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:16 pm

In post 1830, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 943, Taly wrote:@Pint

ISOing you, there's two distinctions in our reads.

Why are you paranoid about Almost Chara?

And I'm not feeling the argument you had for UP2.

Not feeling paranoid about A50 it's nearly impossible for me, 'cause I love his playstyle and that makes me have bad reads on him. That being said, I reread Jungle Republic where I was mafia and he was a Wolf and I realized I do know how to read him, since he was my most solid wolfread. Paranoia is no longer the best definition on that slot. I think they're town.


I think Pint is town.
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Post Post #1904  (isolation #342)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:18 am

Stw and Kokichi are probably both town. :facepalm:
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Post Post #1905  (isolation #343)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:20 am

Creature is town, just like Taly was.
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Post Post #1906  (isolation #344)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:21 am

Scum is most likely in: jjh, Eraserhead, Mew.
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Post Post #1907  (isolation #345)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:22 am

In post 1906, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Scum is most likely in: jjh, Eraserhead, Mew.


But of couse, I’m probably once again right and not get listened too. :facepalm:
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Post Post #1908  (isolation #346)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:24 am

In post 1888, pinturicchio wrote:Flavor Leaf coming to the thread after an eternity to unvote Mewtaph when he was at L-1: good timing. If he was scum and Mew was town, he could've waited and said he was townreading Mew after the mislynch. Either Flavor is scum with Mew, or Flavor is town. The latter is much more likely.
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Post Post #1909  (isolation #347)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:28 am

In post 1863, Shoshin the worst wrote:if Michael Scott is scum the world is a very ugly place


No, probably wrong town just like you guys for not listening to me.

Creature is town and Kokichi, probably town.
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Post Post #1910  (isolation #348)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:31 am

In post 1869, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1116, Taly wrote:Town, not listing the order of strength OR confidence here
Almost Chara
Mephisto
STW
Varsoon
T&L
URAP2
Alchemist

Sorting
Mew
Pint
Proflavor
Michael Scott
Nicorobin
Kokichi


Not behind a Nico/Koki lynch unless there's either a better meta argument, or until they post more so I can evaluate them enough to have a lynch decision on.

Here again: why not including me in the "not behind a x-lynch" if he thinks I have not that much sortable posts? Why not pushing Michael or Proflavor who were more active than me?


Scum!Taly day doesn’t make this readslist and both he and Creature are obvtown here.
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Post Post #1911  (isolation #349)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:34 am

In post 1834, Shoshin the worst wrote:@Nancy, I agree with you on Nico. But she's also not an easy sort and comparing meta directly from two games can give pretty dubious results. She doesn't always talk about being flip based etc. as town; jjh is an easier read than Nico and fmpov if he doesn't town it up d2 he will be our lynch.


It just seems silly to me to lynch Kokichi over jjh/Nico, when that slot has much greater scum equity and Creature/Taly is town here, so remove them from your POE.
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Post Post #1913  (isolation #350)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:50 am

In post 1912, Shoshin the worst wrote:No chance Creature is leaving my PoE until he's produced some town indicative content and both of our heads are happy with it - I also want to hear something from Chara before we go down this rabbit hole to be comfortable. Like I said we're not wagoning Taly/Creature today. That's the most I can give you.

Do you think the scumteam is genuinely just straight up those 3? I can...kinda not see a reason to think it's WRONG I just don't feel like we're close enough to a 100% solve when I don't trust either Kokichi or Creature's slot.


I hard townread Taly and Creature’s entrance just locks it in for me. Scum!Creature never adamantly defends himself like that. *lightly smacks TW for not seeing that* :lol:
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Post Post #1914  (isolation #351)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:51 am

In post 1912, Shoshin the worst wrote:No chance Creature is leaving my PoE until he's produced some town indicative content and both of our heads are happy with it - I also want to hear something from Chara before we go down this rabbit hole to be comfortable. Like I said we're not wagoning Taly/Creature today. That's the most I can give you.

Do you think the scumteam is genuinely just straight up those 3? I can...kinda not see a reason to think it's WRONG I just don't feel like we're close enough to a 100% solve when I don't trust either Kokichi or Creature's slot.



Doubting my earlier Pint read.

us
Creature
AC
Alchemist
Stw
Bono
MS
Varsoon
T & L
Kokichi

—————————-

Pint
Eraserhead
Mew
jjh
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Post Post #1915  (isolation #352)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:54 am

In post 1896, Creature wrote:ffs I didn't rand scum


Scum!Creature never makes this post and I was hard townreading Taly before that anyway.

Both you (Stw) and MS are ignoring nuances, in favour of meta.

Kokichi is usually more active as scum.
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Post Post #1917  (isolation #353)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:12 am

In post 1915, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1896, Creature wrote:ffs I didn't rand scum


Scum!Creature never makes this post and I was hard townreading Taly before that anyway.

Both you (Stw) and MS are ignoring nuances, in favour of CONVENTIONAL ALIGNMENT BASED READS. .

Kokichi is usually more active as scum.



Sorry, I mut have been out of it, when I made that earlier post.

Neither of you, ought to ignore INDVIDUAL meta.
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Post Post #1918  (isolation #354)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:17 am

In post 1916, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 1855, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1848, Shoshin the worst wrote:@PF is that fence comfortable?

I know

I was gonna do this then loads of pedits to read

Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) - would
Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) - nah
Varsoon nah
Almost Chara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) nah
Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) would
Kokichi Oma - nah
Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) nah
jjh927 nicorobin - reluctantly if we have to
Mewtaph - if FL wants to
alchemist21 - probably not
ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) - hallelujah
u r a person 2 - if FL wants to
pinturicchio nah
Taly nah


Would lynch
Nah - wouldn’t lynch
If FL wants to = if he is confident with his read, I’m not so he can trump me


Sometimes a game feels like it’s going towards a day 1 scum lynch - I feel like this game was doing that @ STW and now it’s not because everything is so unclear to me - this means a vocal player has probably muddied the waters enough which just circles me back round to wanting to lynch STW

This is all

~ woof

Btw


This is a BS lynch list, there are 13 other slots besides your own and the only two slots you would even consider lynching unreluctantly are STW's slot and our slot? I don't buy that this solve comes from town!you.

I think you may just be hard pocketing Varsoon (who I think is town) with your tunnel on STW (who I also think is town). It's also interesting how you were on the initial STW wagon, then you joined the URAP2 wagon when STW's wagon fell apart, and now you are back on STW's wagon once again. In fact you and Pint (who I'm also skeptical of) were the two common denominators between the early STW wagon (which got up to 6 votes) and the early URAP2 wagon (which got up to 4 votes):

In post 175, Krazy wrote:Votecount 1.3
Shoshin the worst(6) ~ pinturicchio(3), Tibor and Lumia(8), u r a person 2(7), ProFlavor(6), Varsoon(38), Alchemist21(21)
Taly(1) ~ Shoshin the worst(24)
Alchemist21(1) ~ Mewtaph(1)


Not Voting (6): Mephistophanes 39(34), Almost Chara(4), Michael Scott(6), Kokichi Oma(6), NicoRobin(2), Taly(6)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-16 22:06:24)


In post 500, Krazy wrote:Votecount 1.6
u r a person 2(4) ~ Shoshin the worst(50), Michael Scott(34), ProFlavor(15), pinturicchio(20)
Shoshin the worst(1) ~ Varsoon(84)
Kokichi Oma(1) ~ Taly(38)
Alchemist21(1) ~ Mewtaph(2)


Not Voting (6): Mephistophanes 39(112), Almost Chara(19), Kokichi Oma(8), Tibor and Lumia(28), NicoRobin(3), Alchemist21(39), u r a person 2 (32)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-16 22:12:40)


- Date Mike (Volxen)


Great catch.

So, I think scum is in:

Eraserleaf also backed up Mew’s terrible Alchemist push as well.

And now Pint is hard townreading Eraserhead.

So, Taly wanted a high info lynch. Let’s give it to him then.

Vote one of Eraserhead, Pint, Mew.
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Post Post #1919  (isolation #355)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:21 am

In post 1869, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1116, Taly wrote:Town, not listing the order of strength OR confidence here
Almost Chara
Mephisto
STW
Varsoon
T&L
URAP2
Alchemist

Sorting
Mew
Pint
Proflavor
Michael Scott
Nicorobin
Kokichi


Not behind a Nico/Koki lynch unless there's either a better meta argument, or until they post more so I can evaluate them enough to have a lynch decision on.

Here again: why not including me in the "not behind a x-lynch" if he thinks I have not that much sortable posts? Why not pushing Michael or Proflavor who were more active than me?


Why would he push Michael?
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Post Post #1920  (isolation #356)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:24 am

In post 1889, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1883, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1874, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1870, ProFlavor wrote:I scum read you early on but there was a lot of town reads heading your way which I don’t really understand so I just assume I m being slow

Therefore if FL has a strong scum read on you then he can vote because I’m not confident in any read bar STW tbh


I'm trying to understand what info you were trying to convey to the rest of the players. Do you think there is much chance of FL finding a scum read on mew or me in the next few hours?


@pro

Above in case you missed it, but also, who is this more vocal player directing us? Are you talking about MS? Why this "I think the invisible hand directs us all" vibe?

I basically just wanted to scrawl down my thoughts to see if anyone went “definitely yes” or “absolutley not” to narrow some things down towards the deadline I wasn’t really trying to convey anything in particular

FL town reads Mew - without wanting to put words in his mouth it seems like FL empathises with Mew because he sees Mews reads as a little against the grain and I know FL likes it when people do that

It’s not clear what he thinks about you


I’m terms of the vocal player - I think in a few of my recent games, I’ve seen Day 1 scum lunches and the familiar pattern has always been a clear consensus that we should lynch that slot for some particular reasons - we seemed to be going that way towards STW imo but then the town bottled it which is why I think it seems like the STE wagon is a hard to push through wagon, which is usually indicative of scum

So why would such a good thing fizzle out? I don’t see how lurkers would be able to topple that momentum so it’s got to be within someone who is pushing against STW - that generally means STW is scum and we will find someone who doesn’t want to vote there

Who was the person that voted when STWs wagon initially died? That’s where I would be looking tomorrow (I think mew, despite FLs town read but I feel like he is kinda biasing himself because he sees his own town play within mew :P I’ve not told him that yet so it’ll be lols when he reads this)


Eraserhead circle-jerking with Mew now.

Do we maybe have a pattern here?
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Post Post #1921  (isolation #357)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:24 am

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #1923  (isolation #358)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:26 am

I will be voting from amongst these 4 today: Eraserhead, Mew, Pint, jjh.

3/4 is probably the scum team.
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Post Post #1924  (isolation #359)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:27 am

In post 1922, Michael Scott wrote:VOTE: ProFlavor

- Date Mike (Volxen)


VOTE: ProFlavor

I’ll miss you, Eraserhead. *sniff*
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Post Post #1925  (isolation #360)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:33 am

I’m truly sorry you replaced out Taly but Creature replace in, helped us prevent a probable mislynch, so can’t say I’m unhappy about that.

Scumteam is probably Eraserhead, Pint, Mew. Outside chance of it being, jjh.
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Post Post #1927  (isolation #361)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:57 am

In post 1926, ProFlavor wrote:I’ll check in, in a couple hours to see which genius has said we’re scum.

We’ve definitely been on scumand scum can’t make a cw stick if we’re getting votes ha ha

~woof


Mew is also a fine vote as would Pint be but I hate to vote the guy recovering from surgery, even if his scum equity is rising like a hot air balloon.
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Post Post #1930  (isolation #362)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:19 am

In post 1928, profii wrote:You’re voting me and you weren’t the first - what’s going on?


How does my not being the frst matter?

I wasn’t a fan of your hydra partner’s posts.

I don’t want to vote outside of you, Mew, Pint, jjh.

I would prefer Mew but there’s too much resistance and Pint looking worse, also makes Mew look worse, as well. Since I felt that they were probably the same alignment.
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Post Post #1931  (isolation #363)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:21 am

In post 1929, profii wrote:Right ok I see the logic

I haven’t fact checked but I’ll chuck my 2 penny worth in a bit once I’ve looked at a couple things


Sell me on Mew/Pint and I’ll unvote you.
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Post Post #1993  (isolation #364)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:03 pm

In post 1933, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1930, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1928, profii wrote:You’re voting me and you weren’t the first - what’s going on?


How does my not being the frst matter?

I wasn’t a fan of your hydra partner’s posts.

I don’t want to vote outside of you, Mew, Pint, jjh.

I would prefer Mew but there’s too much resistance and Pint looking worse, also makes Mew look worse, as well. Since I felt that they were probably the same alignment.
Well this is a concern.

I voted STW
I voted Mew
FL unvoted Mew
I can't remember who voted STW but we both were happy with that vote.

but you are specifically unhappy with FL despite me being the main protagonist of this ISO?


Why me over Pint given he was picked up in Michaels case?

This stinks a bit I think


I’d prefer Mew, since I want to live a bit longer in the game and I doubt any player wants me dead, as much as he does but I don’t see that happening rn. :/
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Post Post #1994  (isolation #365)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:05 pm

In post 1938, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1913, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1912, Shoshin the worst wrote:No chance Creature is leaving my PoE until he's produced some town indicative content and both of our heads are happy with it - I also want to hear something from Chara before we go down this rabbit hole to be comfortable. Like I said we're not wagoning Taly/Creature today. That's the most I can give you.

Do you think the scumteam is genuinely just straight up those 3? I can...kinda not see a reason to think it's WRONG I just don't feel like we're close enough to a 100% solve when I don't trust either Kokichi or Creature's slot.


I hard townread Taly and Creature’s entrance just locks it in for me. Scum!Creature never adamantly defends himself like that. *lightly smacks TW for not seeing that* :lol:

....heroes wanted?
what are you seeing as outside Creature's scumrange from that entrance?


I have a hard gut townread on Taly and yes, I don’t see scum!Creature making that kind of post.
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Post Post #1995  (isolation #366)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:07 pm

In post 1941, Varsoon wrote:We are not swinging a last-minute wagon on Proflavor.
That wagon does not have the vocal support for a majority vote.
Please stop supporting vanity wagons in the last 24 hours we have.


-V


Well, I don’t like either Stw or Kokichi wagons.
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Post Post #1996  (isolation #367)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:08 pm

In post 1943, pinturicchio wrote:I'm at page 53. Mew's reaction to his wagon was great. How he approached Nancy is exactly how I'm feeling right now: she just defends her townreads by attacking whoever is scumreading them. Flavor's reaction to Mew's wagon is townie as hell too, but I already said this. I don't see any scum intention on how Pro unvoted unless both Mew and Flavor are scum ---> Mew is apparently town because of his reaction ---> both are town, which is much more likely than both being scum (thinking that I caught two out of three scum instead of two out of ten towns... My tinfoil hat is not ready for that)


No it wasn’t. Mew’s reaction was horrible and very unlike town!Mew.
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Post Post #1997  (isolation #368)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:10 pm

In post 1945, pinturicchio wrote:Alchemist's reaction to Mew's posting is townie too, makes even more obvious that it was a tvt interaction with a lot of OMGUSery


Okay, we agree on Alchemist as town and why do you think Mew’s push on him, makes any sense to you whatsoever?
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Post Post #1998  (isolation #369)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:11 pm

In post 1947, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1365, Kokichi Oma wrote:I'm telling you guys. Chara is scum. Meta never wrong

This is awful too. Kokichi is trying to play crazy ol' Jenkins to avoid the lynch.


I’m still waiting for him to explain this meta read.
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Post Post #2000  (isolation #370)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:15 pm

In post 1950, Varsoon wrote:Big sigh
We can't let STW get away with this
If we do
They'll keep getting away with it
They'll just win again
Fuck all of you for letting that happen once
I'm not gonna let it happen again

I SHOT THEM
THEY DID NOT DIE

Come onnnnn
just lynch STW
Don't let them survive
Because I won't make it through the night
and it feels like I AM THE ONLY ONE fighting for their lynch
And I don't want to lose to those guys again
Ever

-V


And WHY did they not die and how does that make them scum?

Why would you assume scum would have protection against a dayvig? I don’t see the connection?

I think it likely has to do with the whole positioning mechanics thing.

Because you keep making this argument, that they’re scum because they didn’t die, without explanation what alignment has to do with them not dying.

Until you explain this connection, it doesn’t make any sense to me.
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Post Post #2001  (isolation #371)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:17 pm

In post 1951, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1950, Varsoon wrote:Big sigh
We can't let STW get away with this
If we do
They'll keep getting away with it
They'll just win again
Fuck all of you for letting that happen once
I'm not gonna let it happen again

I SHOT THEM
THEY DID NOT DIE

Come onnnnn
just lynch STW
Don't let them survive
Because I won't make it through the night
and it feels like I AM THE ONLY ONE fighting for their lynch
And I don't want to lose to those guys again
Ever

-V

Shoshin would be a compromise lynch for me. I'm null on that slot right now. Also I can't take outside my head the idea of you being a lyncher :lol:


Prediction: Toogeloo will replace in at some point as a gobal vig and the game will end with a triumphant solo mod win.
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Post Post #2002  (isolation #372)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:19 pm

In post 1952, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1579, Mewtaph wrote:Hmm, ok.
I'll also be around before deadline if this doesn't work.
VOTE: pinturicchio

In post 1581, Mewtaph wrote:VOTE: Shoshin the worst
Eh, not feeling it.

Uh oh, this is not good.


Didn’t really care for this throwaway vote from Mew.
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Post Post #2003  (isolation #373)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:21 pm

In post 1956, pinturicchio wrote:For posterity: Michael Scott is following wrong town!Nancy to wherever she goes.


This is patently false. I never voted Kokichi and I sheeped HIM on Eraserhead, so explain that.
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Post Post #2005  (isolation #374)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:24 pm

In post 1955, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1954, Varsoon wrote:If I was a lyncher, the real vig would counter-claim and I'd be destroyed.

-V

The vig counter claiming you would be an awful move from the vig. But I don't think you're a lyncher; I've seen you tunnel like this. You're more lyncher than a lyncher.


Yes, at one point during - was it D2 or D3 of SC 1 - town!Varsoon actively tried to get me lynched and as we know now, that would have resulted in a mislynch.
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Post Post #2006  (isolation #375)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:25 pm

In post 1957, pinturicchio wrote:Town: Varsoon, ProFlavor, AlmostChara, Tibor and Lumia, Alchemist21
Townlean: Mephistophanes (mainly because of Ari's posting), Mewtaph, URAP2
Null: Kokichi, jjh
Scumlean: Creature
Scumreads: Michael Scott, STW



Wrt the bolded: :lol:
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Post Post #2011  (isolation #376)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:27 pm

In post 1959, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1957, pinturicchio wrote:Town: Varsoon, ProFlavor, AlmostChara, Tibor and Lumia, Alchemist21
Townlean: Mephistophanes (mainly because of Ari's posting), Mewtaph, URAP2
Null: Kokichi, jjh
Scumlean: Creature
Scumreads: Michael Scott, STW


I would change very little in this - however - I have never called a full scum team on day 1.

The slots I expect to swing are in everyone you've said leans. I'm happy to town bin all your towns and I scum read your scums.

I'm assuming I'm wrong on Mewt and I'm wondering if Mephi will be the first to swing the other side of the null line but then again 2 null slots will skew this when they become active I think as they will introduce new perspectives.

~woof


Other side? Are you possibly positioning us for a mislynch down the road? :shifty:
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Post Post #2013  (isolation #377)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:29 pm

In post 1961, pinturicchio wrote:I think Meph is town because of Ari but that was long ago, I can't recall why I was townreading them. Nancy I really can't sort her, had the same problem on OK2.


And I’m the same alignment here. Why were you sr me in OK 2? I never really understood that.
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Post Post #2017  (isolation #378)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:35 pm

In post 1968, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1507, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1476, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1389, ProFlavor wrote:Kokichi is also mislynch bait this early in the game. Shoshin is super scum. :lol:

~Leaf

"let's not lynch him because he's lynchbait" is agenda driven thinking. Kokichi's iso is high wolf equity lol.
don't position our slot like this. take a few minutes to try and see what we're seeing?


Dafuq? How and what makes you so sure he isn’t “lynchbait”?

Also: what makes lynchbait town? I dislike people asserting lynchbait has to be town, like it may be a point towards it but sometimes the lynch is simply that easy.
-Gamma, the devil's advocate


Obviously, it doesn’t have to but it frequently is. That was definitely true of NM mislynch in SC1. I’m not an expert at reading Kokichi but nothing so far is screaming to me, that he’s obvscum here and I have other slots, I find way scummier.

So, Kokichi isn’t amongst my preferred early lynches and I still think he’s very likely a lhf mislynch here.
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Post Post #2021  (isolation #379)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:37 pm

In post 1969, Almost Chara wrote:Mephisto is one of my strong townreads, based entirely on Nancy.
i dislike any votes that aren't on Kokichi or STW. because less than 24 hours.
~Chara

In post 1972, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1518, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1517, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Nico might be scum here

it made me think she might be town but it's a bit wifom'y

Honestly kinda in agreement here
Also need to check where else Nico opted to replace out of a game because I remember one instance but not what alignment she was or which game
-Gamma, who is very not fine


Why doesn’t jjh post something more to help us sort him, when he knows we’re this close to deadline?
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Post Post #2022  (isolation #380)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:39 pm

In post 1972, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1518, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1517, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Nico might be scum here

it made me think she might be town but it's a bit wifom'y

Honestly kinda in agreement here
Also need to check where else Nico opted to replace out of a game because I remember one instance but not what alignment she was or which game
-Gamma, who is very not fine


Gamma, remember OK 1, where she flaked as scum and was replaced by Tails?
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Post Post #2023  (isolation #381)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:40 pm

In post 1975, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1971, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1939, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: ProFlavor

why not Koki?
~Chara

Testing a wagon I feel better about to see if it can get the support.
I'll switch back to Kokichi if we need to.


Why not just vote scum - which is probably not Kokichi?
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Post Post #2024  (isolation #382)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:41 pm

In post 1976, Tibor and Lumia wrote:Yeah Nico was town the last time she opted to replace out, which was Heroes Wanted, and given her meta and recent games she's been in points to her being town.
-Gamma, whose favorite superhero is Iron Man


No Gamma, Nico was scum in OK 1. How are you not remembering this?
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Post Post #2025  (isolation #383)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:43 pm

In post 1979, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1558, Varsoon wrote:Mewtaph's going to flip town.
Vote Shoshin.

In post 1559, Shoshin the worst wrote:So are we....

Hmmm...
VOTE: shoshin the worst
If this reds I think Mew is spewed town
-Gamma, hyperaware of context clues


You’re voting Stw to solely to clear Mew?

Why not the converse?
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Post Post #2026  (isolation #384)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:45 pm

In post 1980, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1977, Shoshin the worst wrote:Can you show me what's towny about her posts rq?

It's nothing about her posts but her posting habits.
I feel like scum Nico would have stayed in the game until something made her leave, which is what happened in the worst idea mafia. The fact she chose to replace out, something she only does as town iirc, probably makes her slot town.
-Gamma, who can't be explaining everything twice!


GAMMA, WHAT ABOUT OVERKILL 1???
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Post Post #2027  (isolation #385)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:47 pm

In post 1982, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1579, Mewtaph wrote:Hmm, ok.
I'll also be around before deadline if this doesn't work.
VOTE: pinturicchio

In post 1580, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 1565, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 1544, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1534, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1531, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 993, Shoshin the worst wrote:I think it's just Mewtaph and Taly atm but it does not make any sense to me, either.

Looks like it was just Mew tbh. I don't know what their shared meta is rn, Mew/Alchemist care to elucidate me?
-Gamma Emerald, reader of YA literature at age 19

I don’t think I’ve played with Mew before.

Ah, so he isn’t even basing his bad read on meta. His insistence in pushing you for reasons which make 0 sense to me, reads off to me.

I'm not playing in any games with you after this tbh, so you can stick "meta" up your ass.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Nice AtE fail. Bravo.

In post 1581, Mewtaph wrote:VOTE: Shoshin the worst
Eh, not feeling it.

Curious.
-Gamma, on the ball today


I found his like 10 second vote on Pint, really weird, too.
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Post Post #2030  (isolation #386)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:50 pm

In post 1985, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1720, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1718, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1411, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Also Eraserhead/Leaf, please explain to me in what world advocating a policy lynch on our slot is not even remotely scummy. And what about Mew’s weirdass Gamma question?

What possible town motivation is there in Mew asking Gamma if he should townread her?


I’m waiting. :popcorn:

I can see town motivation in the question. I CanNOT see town motivation in asking it in sucha throwaway manner like Mew did.
-Gamma, lord of obscure references


Hmmm . . . interesting. Yeah, didn’t he say, he wasn’t expecting an answer iirc?

He said he did but I still think he didn't really care, I definitely think the "he asked it to look like he was doing things" idea holds water, though if STW flips scum I'll prolly let it go.
-Gamma, who has no chill


Yes, that’s how it looked to me. I mean why even bother to ask that question in the first place, if you weren’t expecting an answer?

And why are Pint and Eraserhead, just ignoring this?
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Post Post #2031  (isolation #387)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:53 pm

In post 1986, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1740, Varsoon wrote:Also, I don't really know that a 'rudeness tell' holds weight.
correlation is not causation

-V

Meh I definitely think behavioral tells are useful. I, for example, tend to try to "cash in" whenever I see something that could be painted as scummy when I'm scum. While as town I might hold off.
-Gamma, who's gonna take a small break. Will finish today though.


It’s just kind of extreme as well and even more true for the bizarro-assed PL, which I still for the life of me, don’t get how anyone is townreading. It’s whacked.
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Post Post #2033  (isolation #388)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:55 pm

In post 1991, Shoshin the worst wrote:just casually reiterating that Taly's slot is obvscum and should be lynched d2 if you dumbasses actually lynch us
Tia

(still love you all)


How is is obvscum? Based on?

I think Taly is obvtown and find me even one game where scum!Creature makes that kind of adamant defehse?
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Post Post #2036  (isolation #389)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:57 pm

In post 1992, Creature wrote:
In post 1991, Shoshin the worst wrote:just casually reiterating that Taly's slot is obvscum and should be lynched d2 if you dumbasses actually lynch us
Tia

(still love you all)

I see you didn't like my few posts...


Well, it’s kind of ironic to me, that they’re criticizing Varsoon for deathtunnelling them and they’re doing the exact same thing to your slot.

I have a hard gut townread on your slot for good reason and I don’t understand why they’re ignoring that.
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Post Post #2041  (isolation #390)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:00 pm

In post 2004, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 2003, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1956, pinturicchio wrote:For posterity: Michael Scott is following wrong town!Nancy to wherever she goes.


This is patently false. I never voted Kokichi and I sheeped HIM on Eraserhead, so explain that.

I know you voted after him, but if you read again that interaction between both of you you'll see he said with other words what you were implying already, in order to get a "yeah that's what I thought" from you. Example: you started saying "Pint is going down on my reads" and there comes Michael Scott with some shade on me to get your attention. If I recall correctly, that happened with three different reads.


You have inferred that MS is both scum with Stw and as well, wrongly following town!me. That’s a complete contradiction. Which one is it?
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Post Post #2043  (isolation #391)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:02 pm

In post 2007, Creature wrote:Well, I replaced in with 8 hours left, got 24 hours, used all the 24 hours on procrastinate.

In post 2008, Creature wrote:Now live interact with me

I got no reads though


How is Stw scumreading you, when jjh has pretty much done jack? That makes absolutely no sense.
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Post Post #2049  (isolation #392)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:07 pm

In post 2009, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1996, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1943, pinturicchio wrote:I'm at page 53. Mew's reaction to his wagon was great. How he approached Nancy is exactly how I'm feeling right now: she just defends her townreads by attacking whoever is scumreading them. Flavor's reaction to Mew's wagon is townie as hell too, but I already said this. I don't see any scum intention on how Pro unvoted unless both Mew and Flavor are scum ---> Mew is apparently town because of his reaction ---> both are town, which is much more likely than both being scum (thinking that I caught two out of three scum instead of two out of ten towns... My tinfoil hat is not ready for that)


No it wasn’t. Mew’s reaction was horrible and very unlike town!Mew.

Could you explain this outside meta? 'Cause I've seen you say "last game Mew wasn't playing like this", and that's not even a meta read, it's too superficial.

Like, think that Mew is somebody else for one minute, and tell me what comes as scummy from his reaction, other than "he wants to PL me".


I really dislike how I continue to have my valid read on Mew’s uberscummy PL thing discredited solely because it just happened to be on me, which is what it sounds like you’re implying?

It’s scummy because there is simply nothing remotely townie about his reasoning for doing so, especially when it was in regard to a really bad push on Alchemist.

In SC1, he just reacted totally differently in SC1 and was far less aggressive in general and this was very recently, so I don’t believe town!Mew’s play does such a complete 180, in such a short amount of time.
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Post Post #2050  (isolation #393)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:10 pm

In post 2018, Shoshin the worst wrote:mfw entire PoE is voting us


T & L aren’t in your POE and Creature isn’t voting you.
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Post Post #2054  (isolation #394)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:12 pm

In post 2020, Shoshin the worst wrote:Guess creature hasn't yet haha


I think you’re wrong on Creature. I don’t understand why you’re so tunnelled on that slot.
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Post Post #2064  (isolation #395)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:19 pm

In post 2032, Varsoon wrote:@URAP2: Proflavor, by my count, only has 4 people who have vocalized support for the wagon. It's not going to happen within 8 hours. Put your vote to better use.

In post 1995, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1941, Varsoon wrote:We are not swinging a last-minute wagon on Proflavor.
That wagon does not have the vocal support for a majority vote.
Please stop supporting vanity wagons in the last 24 hours we have.


-V


Well, I don’t like either Stw or Kokichi wagons.


I'm not asking you to like them, I'm asking you to compromise because otherwise we get no lynch.

In post 2005, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
Yes, at one point during - was it D2 or D3 of SC 1 - town!Varsoon actively tried to get me lynched and as we know now, that would have resulted in a mislynch.


Will you never drop the fact that I pushed for a lynch on town, as town, once? I even changed my mind RIGHTFULLY, too, so I don't get why you're so hung up on me being WRONG ONCE in a way that DID NOT EVEN AFFECT THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME because we DID NOT LYNCH YOU and I CAME AROUND TO A CORRECT TOWNREAD ON YOU. I don't understand why this is something you keep bringing up over and over. Yeah, I'm sorry that I couldn't magically divine that you weren't scum the ENTIRE GAME that time because I was playing from a position of having barely information and based on the information I had, it looked like you were scum baiting me for awhile.

-Soon


How is it a good use of my vote to vote for a wagon that I think is likely to flip green?

I keep bringing this up, because you were for a fact, so strongly tunneled on me for quite awhile that you didn’t listen to anyone, who contradicted your wrong sr on me. Xtoxm tried to get though to you too and you didn’t listen to him. My point is, how do I know you’re not making that same mistake with Stw here? I don’t.

Another good reason why Stw should be townreading Taly, because he didn’t get your tunnel on them either. So their continued Taly scumread, makes absolutely no sense to me.
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Post Post #2065  (isolation #396)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:22 pm

In post 2035, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 2013, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1961, pinturicchio wrote:I think Meph is town because of Ari but that was long ago, I can't recall why I was townreading them. Nancy I really can't sort her, had the same problem on OK2.


And I’m the same alignment here. Why were you sr me in OK 2? I never really understood that.

I think I was scumreading you at the start for something superficial and your reaction was weird, like "why the fuck are you scumreading me" or something along those lines, but now that I know you better, I know that kind of reactions are NAI from you. But that's my problem: I tend to scumread those kind of reactions, but that doesn't work on you.

Also I had my conspiracy theory that you were scum with Wisdom and that the whole 1v1 was staged because you both voted for the same person after discussing. Then I told you that I don't give a fuck about meta and that our styles are too different, so it's obvious that I can't sort you easily by reading, so I have to leave you do your thing and judge you by results. You had good reads on OK2, I expect the same here. Seems fair, right?


Yeah. Interesting thing, my voting patters were almost identical to scum!Wisdom’s in that game. But his opening was weird. Scum tend to slip most very early. That was true both for scum!Wisdom and scum!tw in SC1 and holds true for a lot of games I’ve been in but you usually can’t tell that until after a few flips.
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Post Post #2066  (isolation #397)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:23 pm

In post 2037, u r a person 2 wrote:@creature

You seem like an agreeable chap who hasn't read the game yet. How about lynching proflavor blind?


I’d switch to Mew in a heartbeat but that obviously ain’t happening. :/
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Post Post #2067  (isolation #398)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:24 pm

In post 2038, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 2030, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Yes, that’s how it looked to me. I mean why even bother to ask that question in the first place, if you weren’t expecting an answer?

And why are Pint and Eraserhead, just ignoring this?

What is the thing I'm ignoring? Disagreeing with you is not ignoring something.


I think it’s definitely worth commenting on. Why does Mew ask Gamma that question, if he wasn’t expecting an answer? Can you explain that?
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Post Post #2068  (isolation #399)  » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:26 pm

In post 2042, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 2037, u r a person 2 wrote:@creature

You seem like an agreeable chap who hasn't read the game yet. How about lynching proflavor blind?

But then how would FL claim masons with him later :(

~ woof


I seriously doubt there are any masons in this setup. :lol:
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