Booneytoonz IX - Under The Sea -- Game Over!


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Post Post #30 (isolation #0) » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:29 am

Post by davesaz »

Guess what, I'm a miller too.
I wonder if all the roles that would be VT are miller instead?
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Post Post #60 (isolation #1) » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:37 am

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In my case timing of claim is because of waking up slightly before 11am. It’s good to be on vacation.
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Post Post #130 (isolation #2) » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:59 am

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I'm confused by the Miller family references.
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Post Post #131 (isolation #3) » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:01 am

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Oh gee, I love it when noise outnumbers signal 10:1. :roll:
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Post Post #265 (isolation #4) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:44 am

Post by davesaz »

Maki seems to be solving, Kaito seems to not be solving.
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Post Post #286 (isolation #5) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:20 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 279, Maki Harukawa wrote:
In post 274, Alchemist21 wrote:Dave’s is honestly hard to explain but the post where he complained about the noise-signal ratio is what gave me the Townread.
I feel like dave is just the type of person to get annoyed by noise in general NAI imo.
There is an element of truth to this, but the if/when and how I make comments about it makes a difference.
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Post Post #287 (isolation #6) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:22 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 276, Nikk wrote:Maki is a big scumread to me based on interactions.
I'd be interested to hear what you say about it.
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Post Post #288 (isolation #7) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:23 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 270, Wisdom wrote:
In post 265, davesaz wrote:Maki seems to be solving, Kaito seems to not be solving.
appearances deceive
Do tell.
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Post Post #296 (isolation #8) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:44 am

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What are the numbers, and who is this dunn person?
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Post Post #298 (isolation #9) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:46 am

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Are the postcounts relevant to something?
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Post Post #300 (isolation #10) » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:48 am

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In post 294, Chara wrote:what would town Wisdom who scumreads you be doing differently?
I have an opinion on this but I'm going to reserve it for later. Posting this helps me remember to do that later, since I tend to ISO myself to find out if I left any to do list.
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Post Post #344 (isolation #11) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:04 am

Post by davesaz »

The key to the whole Jay clan is to only really believe what they say after they flip town. Before that point it's all maybe... :lol:
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Post Post #368 (isolation #12) » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:09 pm

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I’m willing to vote wisdom but on my tablet and don’t feel like jumping through the hoops to type the vote tags rn. He can have up till I get back to the computer to actually play the game.
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Post Post #378 (isolation #13) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:57 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 372, Wisdom wrote:dave you should know better
Usually the people I don't think are scumhunting end up being scum.
VOTE: Wisdom
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Post Post #380 (isolation #14) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:16 am

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How many scum likely in 15 people?
How many people in this game have you posted about?
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Post Post #385 (isolation #15) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:37 am

Post by davesaz »

383/384 look like town posts.
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Post Post #386 (isolation #16) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:40 am

Post by davesaz »

Lady Angel has been on site but not posted here, and what little there is looks gross. I loathe lurker lynches unless there is clear meta, so not a priority yet.
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Post Post #387 (isolation #17) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:45 am

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Pink ball ISO has maybe one original thought, 2-3 posts about it, and a bunch of fluff.
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Post Post #402 (isolation #18) » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:42 am

Post by davesaz »

Lack of explanation has nothing to do with it.
Lack of doing anything is the scumtell.
BTW who is dunn? I don't want to make a wrong assumption here.
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Post Post #449 (isolation #19) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:51 am

Post by davesaz »

I require Wisdom to give thoughts on more people.
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Post Post #454 (isolation #20) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:58 am

Post by davesaz »

I know what Mambo is (don't know lyrics though), but not what T.I. is.

Oh, a mod. Can we have a VC please?
Pedit: like right there lol.
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Post Post #460 (isolation #21) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:30 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 453, Gamma Emerald wrote: Votecount 1.2

Wisdom (4): Maki Harukawa, Kaito Momota, davesaz, Clemency
Maki Harukawa (3): Wisdom, Frozen Angel, Pink Ball
Elsa Jay (2): Alchemist21, sheepsaysmeep
Kaito Momota (2): Nikk, Chara
Frozen Angel (1): Firebringer
Clemency (1): Elsa Jay

Not Voting: Creature, Lady Angel

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-14 08:51:00)
Color changed to make it readable on mafSepia.
Suggestion:
add the "with x living it takes y to lynch" so we don't need to check #players on each vc or remember it.
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Post Post #462 (isolation #22) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:41 am

Post by davesaz »

Elsa Jay might be scum. I had written things off as shitposting, but on review there is a remarkable lack of useful stuff. As in almost as little as Wisdom has.
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Post Post #468 (isolation #23) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:02 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 465, Pink Ball wrote:Hey dave, you seem to complain a lot about people not doing useful stuff, but that's like... The only thing you've done in your whole ISO, and that's not so useful either. Just saying.
On the contrary, giving my reads is the only thing useful I can do, aside from voting.
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Post Post #472 (isolation #24) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:09 am

Post by davesaz »

Besides, the point is not complaining about anything. The point is that the people I'm identifying are not doing things to scumhunt.

Pedit: Clemency -- stop spamming! Once or twice might be fine, more than that ceases to be funny.
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Post Post #479 (isolation #25) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:23 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 476, Pink Ball wrote:
In post 472, davesaz wrote:Besides, the point is not complaining about anything. The point is that the people I'm identifying are not doing things to scumhunt.

Pedit: Clemency -- stop spamming! Once or twice might be fine, more than that ceases to be funny.
And if you were me and I were you, would you say I'm scumhunting?
I am obviously scumhunting. I would read others posting the way I do as town.
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Post Post #488 (isolation #26) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:35 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 445, Pink Ball wrote:Can I say my thoughts on Chara?
I think you offered to do this but then got distracted by Mamba. ;)
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Post Post #500 (isolation #27) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:01 am

Post by davesaz »

Might I be the type of person who would vote someone but not prefer to lynch them?

@Chara, not quite sure what you're annoyed about in the quote that Pink Ball responded to.
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Post Post #503 (isolation #28) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:07 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 489, Chara wrote:speaking of thoughts, i seem to remember you having opinions on what town Wisdom would do here, dave.
i'd also love your opinion on everything regarding Kaito. some of my read needs context, but it's context Kaito and Maki absolutely have, hence my focus there.
Wisdom: I would expect him to have a stated opinion and generate content on more than one player.

Kaito: I have a vague sort of expectation there that most logic will be sketchy at best. This might make me susceptible to overlooking things that represent an actual inconsistency and aren't just badly connected dots.
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Post Post #509 (isolation #29) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:22 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 505, Wisdom wrote:
In post 503, davesaz wrote:Wisdom: I would expect him to have a stated opinion and generate content on more than one player.
quote games where i didnt do these as scum
Immaterial, this read is independent of meta.
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Post Post #517 (isolation #30) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:45 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 511, Wisdom wrote:lol why do you expect me to do things if not because of meta
Your mistake is in assuming I expect
you
to do it. I expect
town
to do it. Hence it's not a meta based read.
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Post Post #520 (isolation #31) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:54 am

Post by davesaz »

Nikk, do you prefer to question townreads, scumreads, or doesn't matter?
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Post Post #522 (isolation #32) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:56 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 519, Elsa Jay wrote:I feel like mafia informed Maki wouldnt bring up the option of mafia being informed about the millers. Seems stupid to even mention the possibility and fuck over your teammate claiming it.
This post either has an unfounded assumption or is missing a key conclusion.
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Post Post #526 (isolation #33) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:05 am

Post by davesaz »

@Elsa Jay: Which way are you trying to argue, that Maki is mafia and informed, or not mafia?
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Post Post #529 (isolation #34) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:08 am

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I have more to add but want to see that answer first.
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Post Post #530 (isolation #35) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:08 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 528, Creature wrote:Did we get anything useful?
What have you read?
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Post Post #545 (isolation #36) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:29 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 519, Elsa Jay wrote:I feel like mafia informed Maki wouldnt bring up the option of mafia being informed about the millers. Seems stupid to even mention the possibility and fuck over your teammate claiming it.
Here's what I mean by the wrong assumption / missing conclusion.

Maki, if Mafia, could bring up the miller thing if all of the claimed millers are town (unfounded assumption is that one or more miller is scum). This is true whether informed of the multiple millers or not. In fact this leads to a pretty strong missing conclusion that if Maki is mafia, the millers are much more likely to be all town. Not strong enough to consider anyone conf, but still pretty strong.

My opinion:

Maki, if Town, is absolutely correct to state that if mafia were informed of multiple millers then even the first miller claim is suspect. Since we don't know that mafia aren't informed, we can't consider any of the millers to be beyond suspicion based solely on the miller claim.

Here's why scum might push Maki as town for having the above correct suspicions.

Scum might push town!Maki if all of the millers are town, to try to force us to lynch Maki and a majority of the millers.
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Post Post #551 (isolation #37) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:40 am

Post by davesaz »

If mafia doesn't have daytalk then might be important to remember.

Pedit: Ooh, information lynch arguments.
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Post Post #583 (isolation #38) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:05 am

Post by davesaz »

This irrefutable logic
In post 545, davesaz wrote: Maki, if Town, is absolutely correct to state that if mafia were informed of multiple millers then even the first miller claim is suspect. Since we don't know that mafia aren't informed, we can't consider any of the millers to be beyond suspicion based solely on the miller claim.
means that Wisdom's only scumtell implies that he himself is a dumbtell.

Pedit: oh great, the talkative folk are out. :roll:
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Post Post #634 (isolation #39) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:41 am

Post by davesaz »

Alchemist, how much did you actually read?
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Post Post #636 (isolation #40) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:42 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 631, Creature wrote:
In post 449, davesaz wrote:I require Wisdom to give thoughts on more people.
I don't remember you ever playing like this.
Do you remember me asking you to post more than one liners, that include actual thoughts on the game? Similar concept.
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Post Post #637 (isolation #41) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:42 am

Post by davesaz »

I do see improvement btw. :)
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Post Post #642 (isolation #42) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:44 am

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@alch: Did you catch the prevailing thoughts on Maki?
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Post Post #644 (isolation #43) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:46 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 640, Creature wrote:
In post 528, Creature wrote:Did we get anything useful?
In post 529, davesaz wrote:I have more to add but want to see that answer first.
529 was a followup post to my previous post. I have since seen the answer to the question in that previous post, and provided my followon thoughts.
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Post Post #658 (isolation #44) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:58 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 643, Creature wrote:
In post 545, davesaz wrote:Scum might push town!Maki if all of the millers are town, to try to force us to lynch Maki and a majority of the millers.
Are we still talking about the millers?
Wisdom and others (I'm not tracking who else) are pushing Maki for speculating that mafia knew there were multiple millers.
I'm refuting that by saying that it's absolutely the right thing for town to speculate that mafia knew. At worst it's not AI to post it.

Elsa Jay is saying Maki can't be scum and push that idea without endangering scum who claimed miller. This is either horrible logic or reveals that Elsa Jay is buddy to those scum. Or possibly scum without daytalk who are pissed at Maki because Elsa jokeclaimed miller as well and is therefore tainted by the idea that mafia are informed.

Nikk made similar analysis that I did for Elsa's logic, Elsa is pushing Nikk for "lynch listing" when to me it looked like followon logic on whom to suspect depending on Maki's flip.

Wisdom is calling everyone but Maki dumb. Or at minimum isn't saying much about reads.

Yes there are multiple players who aren't doing much. Wisdom is actively not doing much vs. others who are passively not doing much.

Alchemist says he read all that and got nothing from it. I find that really suspicious.

Pedit: Hands off on FA and mental state type posts. Seriously, just don't go there.
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Post Post #698 (isolation #45) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:38 pm

Post by davesaz »

Hey, a Lady Angel post. Got any scumreads?
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Post Post #728 (isolation #46) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:25 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 721, Chara wrote:
In post 712, Clemency wrote:^
i swear i'm getting a soft scumlean on anyone who tried to claim the past 10 pages or so were noise

thats exactly when we started getting real
i feel this, you were noise earlier but certainly not now. the last several pages are a lot but they've improved my read on you considerably.
Clemency as an individual is higher signal ratio since 500ish post than before. There was other posting that bugged me shortly before my most recent post about talkative people.
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Post Post #729 (isolation #47) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:34 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 546, Elsa Jay wrote:Nikk, my question is to you why setting up a lynch order isn't scummy.
I tried to stay out of this question for the most part.

Two things. It isn't setting up a lynch order, and even if it were it's not scummy.

If A happens then X is scummy.
If B happens then Y and Z are scummy.

This type of logic is the epitome of good town play.
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Post Post #731 (isolation #48) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:35 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 727, Nikk wrote:Anyone who says THAT is just noise is talking nonsense. Try again.
Yeah, this exactly, and you're not even bringing up my posting during that period.
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Post Post #749 (isolation #49) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:47 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 747, Clemency wrote:never make the mistake of thinking i'm not taking the game seriously
If you're town, you need other town to take you seriously. Your voice has potential to be a lot more powerful than your one vote.
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Post Post #754 (isolation #50) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:50 pm

Post by davesaz »

If Clemency and Elsa Jay were both scum, would they be confident enough to try to milk the mutual pocketing gag to explain whey they're together?
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Post Post #759 (isolation #51) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:59 pm

Post by davesaz »

More than what alternative?
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Post Post #762 (isolation #52) » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:04 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 760, Pink Ball wrote:@Alch: the difference between posting or not posting the posibility of the mafia knowing about the millers beforehand is that you are throwing WIFOM in the thread for town who could haven't thought about that posibility, and mess up legitimate reads because of that. It's like saying "you're townreading this slot for the wrong reason because you're not considering this", and I think that's more scum motivated than town motivated.
It is far more dangerous for town to conftown someone who doesn't deserve it, than it is to mislynch one person over another due to WIFOM.
It is always better for town to consider possibilities and rule them out via explicitly reading people than it is to make assumptions and ignore slots.
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Post Post #819 (isolation #53) » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:22 pm

Post by davesaz »

Work started, so the unusually high posting volume from me will go down.
That's a lot of townreads. Are they all equal strength? I'm mostly interested in which the weakest few might be.
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Post Post #859 (isolation #54) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:38 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 828, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 819, davesaz wrote:Work started, so the unusually high posting volume from me will go down.
That's a lot of townreads. Are they all equal strength? I'm mostly interested in which the weakest few might be.
Why are you interested in the weakest Townreads?
In post 829, Alchemist21 wrote:Like that kinda looks like you’re looking to see where his weakest reads are to change his mind one way or the other rather than understand his strongest reads to try and better your read on him or work together with him.
Too many townreads implies some of them are likely scum.
Are those within the strong or weak townreads? Knowing that helps sort in general.
It doesn't actually matter whether I ask for strong or weak from the sorting Pink Ball perspective. The existence of a gradient is what matters.
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Post Post #887 (isolation #55) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:16 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 884, Boonskiies wrote:Votecount 1.4

Maki Harukawa (4): Wisdom, Pink Ball, Nikk, Firebringer
Nikk (3): Elsa Jay, Clemency, Maki Harukawa
Kaito Momota (2): Chara, Alchemist21
Wisdom (1): davesaz
Elsa Jay (1): sheepsaysmeep
Creature (1): Frozen Angel
Chara (1): Kaito Momota

Not Voting: Creature, Lady Angel

With 15 alive it’s 8 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-14 08:51:00)
That VC along with the supposed miller claim almost has to mean that at least one of my strong reads is dead wrong, but I have no idea which one it is.
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Post Post #888 (isolation #56) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:17 am

Post by davesaz »

EBWOP mason claim.
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Post Post #944 (isolation #57) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:02 am

Post by davesaz »

Pretend I'm a complete newb who thinks Maki is the towniest of the town.
Convince me I'm wrong, with actual explanations.
What I remember being mentioned is the "maybe Mafia know there are a lot of millers" thing, without much of an explanation of why only scum might think that.
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Post Post #947 (isolation #58) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:49 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 945, Chara wrote: if you truly think she is incredibly towny (i don't think you are, though) that's cause for at least one raised eyebrow from me.
The post is borrowing from a technique I saw recently in a science fair judging guide, on how to get the entrant to explain their project.
A couple variants are "explain it to me like I'm 5" or "like I'm your grandfather".
So yeah, the "incredibly towny" thing is a rhetorical device that doesn't necessarily match my actual read.

Spoiler: btw
That grandfather example isn't far off for
some
scummers, the age difference is big enough lol
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Post Post #956 (isolation #59) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:22 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 954, Gamma Emerald wrote: Lady Angel (4): Chara, sheepsaysmeep, Elsa Jay, Alchemist21
Maki Harukawa (4): Wisdom, Pink Ball, Nikk, Firebringer
Nikk (2): Clemency, Maki Harukawa
Wisdom (1): davesaz
Creature (1): Frozen Angel
Chara (1): Kaito Momota

Not Voting: Creature, Lady Angel

With 15 alive it’s 8 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-14 08:51:00)
On Lady Angel, Alchemist is much more likely to be scum than any of the others.
On Maki, none of the voters are among my favorites for town, but they aren't especially scummy either. (my Wisdom vote is a failed attempt at behavior modification)
Creature is not the consistent presence I'd expect from him as town. The engaged=town meta is much too easy to fake and as soon as he learns how to do it effectively it will be useless.
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Post Post #963 (isolation #60) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:53 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 957, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
In post 956, davesaz wrote:On Lady Angel, Alchemist is much more likely to be scum than any of the others.
why alchemist over elsa
What I had in mind was the thing about reading pages that had strong content and calling it noise.
But I reviewed him and overall it looks at least a little towny.

Elsa Jay is scummy by playstyle but the content looks like scumhunting so I'm not sure what to do there.
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Post Post #981 (isolation #61) » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:31 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 980, Elsa Jay wrote:Bonus points for being the only one to care about Clem denying being my Mason buddy.
She's not the only one. The whole sequence bothers me.
I get how the two of you could be town and mutually townreading each other and therefore not concerned with the truth. But there are other viable scenarios that are dangerous.

If you're town and not masons I'm worried Clem could be scum who initially went along with you but realized (or was told) that it's a bad idea to do that.
I'm worried you could be scum and Clem is pocketed town and just going along with, and then denying because he realized it's a bad idea.
The lack of reactions from either of you toward the other makes it hard to tell. One of you should have seen the other as more suspicious even if you hard townread each other to begin with.
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Post Post #998 (isolation #62) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:03 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 995, Creature wrote:
In post 975, Chara wrote:at least 3 of the 5 millers are town.
Hey look, it's working, they think one of us must be town
You think 3 or more millers are scum?
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Post Post #1021 (isolation #63) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:43 am

Post by davesaz »

We shouldn't ignore scummy people just because their lynch doesn't seem to give much info.
Refusing to give reads on anyone would become the best strategy for scum.
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Post Post #1023 (isolation #64) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:46 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 1015, Creature wrote:Actually idk why Maki is above you
You didn't notice that it's just the player list?
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Post Post #1024 (isolation #65) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:47 am

Post by davesaz »

Going through d1 with an unexplained read on exactly 1 person is scummy no matter who it is.
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Post Post #1025 (isolation #66) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:49 am

Post by davesaz »

I haven't calculated hard statistics, but over the past half dozen games or so maybe 75% of the people I think aren't scumhunting turn up scum, regardless of who it is or situation. That's a hell of a lot better than random.
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Post Post #1044 (isolation #67) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:23 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1028, Creature wrote:
In post 1024, davesaz wrote:Going through d1 with an unexplained read on exactly 1 person is scummy no matter who it is.
Who is it in that case?
I think you should know who I'm talking about. Who is repeating over and over that a given individual is scum without saying why or commenting on the alignment of anyone else?
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Post Post #1046 (isolation #68) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:24 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1042, Chara wrote:who are the scum who jumped on her wagon?
Wisdom.
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Post Post #1047 (isolation #69) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:24 pm

Post by davesaz »

That answer is for Creature too.
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Post Post #1048 (isolation #70) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:25 pm

Post by davesaz »

I'm absolutely never voting Maki unless Wisdom gives an actual reason.
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Post Post #1074 (isolation #71) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:02 pm

Post by davesaz »

I give you these pearls of wisdom from Overkill 2. (Wisdom was a godfather in this game)
In post 1468, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1447, davesaz wrote:No reason given in the vote post
This analysis is going to go great if youre basing it on reasons in vote posts
In post 1489, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1485, davesaz wrote:
In post 1479, Wisdom wrote:hes not town because of "one burst of activity"
Its funny that you think you can assign reasons to my reads on your own
He has only had one burst of activity, therefore any read you are making must come from that burst.
I'll believe it if/when he posts meaningful material for several days.
how are you ok with being so shallow
unbelievable
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Post Post #1077 (isolation #72) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:07 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1075, Wisdom wrote:was there a point in there
Yeah, I correctly scumread you in that game, and I'm correctly scumreading you here.
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Post Post #1109 (isolation #73) » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:10 pm

Post by davesaz »

I was under the impression you had several scumreads. Maybe I forgot?
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Post Post #1250 (isolation #74) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:32 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 1150, Wisdom wrote:why you push me is irrelevant

you are stating that i am not giving reasons because I don't have them and thats insincere and just a narrative you want to push
If
you have reasons, they are useless to us unless you state them.
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Post Post #1252 (isolation #75) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:35 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 1164, Wisdom wrote:hes trolly and has no content.
He does not want to take a stance on me because that will be bad for him either way.
Hes scum.
Which he in this case?
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Post Post #1261 (isolation #76) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:11 am

Post by davesaz »

Kaito suddenly hyperposts despite being in no personal danger.
Why did that happen?

UNVOTE:

Wisdom, before the last 24 hours I was as sure on Maki being town as you seem to be on her being scum.
Now I'm not so sure anymore. Her play is fine to me, but not just one but two players popped up as possible partners.

Creature has crossed back into nullscum territory. It's just meta but the probably town vibe has disappeared.

I believe Nikk was saying "information" as a reason to lynch Maki over someone else. That seemed off when there were 4-6 days left.

Yeah, that's all disconnected. I suspect something important happened under the covers during that catchup. Not sure what. Don't know if it can be connected in the remaining deadline time.

Clemency and Elsa Jay felt weird around the mason talk. Town Clem who is townreading Elsa should go along, maybe deflect it with a "you mean we're
like
masons to each other right". Town Clem who thinks Elsa is scum should flat out refute it and vote there. That leaves us with scum Clem not wanting to get caught if Elsa flips.
Until I can unpack the other shifts while I was sleeping...
VOTE: Clemency
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Post Post #1268 (isolation #77) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:42 am

Post by davesaz »

That's a bizarre thing to do less than 24 hours from deadline. I'll answer because I'm generally polite.
I'm town because that's what role PM I got. Beyond that, it's obvious to enough people that I don't feel it's worth discussing.

Clemency, now's the time you spill some reads.
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Post Post #1271 (isolation #78) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:52 am

Post by davesaz »

Which wagon are you referring to there?
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Post Post #1291 (isolation #79) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:48 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 1287, Chara wrote:a little surprised dave joined the wagon, because his vote post looked like it was leading in the opposite direction
Clem went along at first and then denied it weakly, while still not scumreading or voting Elsa. That's the scum option from the ones I posted.
Possible they're both scum without daytalk, and Clem flubbed Elsa's plans.

pedit @Nikk: If I'm remembering what question, not directly but it should be clear -- can you unpack it from my posting or do I need to lead you to the answer?
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Post Post #1319 (isolation #80) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:14 pm

Post by davesaz »

VOTE: Nikk
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Post Post #1363 (isolation #81) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:03 pm

Post by davesaz »

Nikk is L-1 by my count, unless Chara just changed off him.
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Post Post #1364 (isolation #82) » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

Clemency has 4, I think.
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Post Post #1777 (isolation #83) » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:52 pm

Post by davesaz »

Clemency freakout is NAI. Clemency's claim sounds fake, but because it's so bad the fakeness is NAI.

I don't know if Kaito knows Clemency well enough to predict the effects of a fake pseudo-guilty. The methodology feels like it comes from scum. Bad logic from Kaito is totally NAI. Total waste of several pages.

Bunch of ignorant people not seeing how proving Maki's claim is totally useless. The only way to prove it is by her death, which hurts town if she's town. She can't claim to have hidden and call that proof because scum, even trueclaiming it, can just no-action and "survive".
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Post Post #1824 (isolation #84) » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:04 pm

Post by davesaz »

Reviewing myself to bring this game back into memory.
In post 1261, davesaz wrote:Kaito suddenly hyperposts despite being in no personal danger.
Why did that happen?
I don't remember if I was satisfied that we understood this.
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Post Post #1827 (isolation #85) » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:08 pm

Post by davesaz »

Yesterday we were saying 5 total before any deaths. Did someone retract or are you only counting the living when doing those numbers?
If Maki is scum that whole thing is moot.
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Post Post #1828 (isolation #86) » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:09 pm

Post by davesaz »

Typically self-targeting isn't a possibility.
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Post Post #1845 (isolation #87) » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:32 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1839, Chara wrote:
In post 1824, davesaz wrote:Reviewing myself to bring this game back into memory.
In post 1261, davesaz wrote:Kaito suddenly hyperposts despite being in no personal danger.
Why did that happen?
I don't remember if I was satisfied that we understood this.
who
was
in danger at the time you noticed this, in your opinion? and why is this bothering you?
The sudden interest in what was going on felt like it might have been intended as a distraction, but it's no longer obvious what it was. I read over several pages before that point and can't tell from them.
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Post Post #1846 (isolation #88) » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:34 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1840, Elsa Jay wrote:I townread both Clem and Maki, and they both turn out to be PRs. Right now I feel like I deserve the confidence I got in my reads.
I expect one of them to be fake. It's the type of thing that can back burner for a day or two but it's definitely going to need to be resolved.
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Post Post #1847 (isolation #89) » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:37 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1839, Chara wrote:and why is this bothering you?
Don't think I explained the why look back now question. I looked up any outstanding questions in my iso and reposted it; then started looking at it. It's a form of reminding myself what I'm doing in case I get distracted.
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Post Post #1905 (isolation #90) » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:46 pm

Post by davesaz »

I'm driving my family around town shopping. The joys of being a dad.
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Post Post #1939 (isolation #91) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:54 am

Post by davesaz »

FWIW I stand by my stance that wisdom is posting but not actually doing anything other than probing town for weaknesses.
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Post Post #1950 (isolation #92) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1943, Kaito Momota wrote:Maybe dave should have said something instead of letting sheep run his mouth
Did I miss something? I don't recall being mischaracterized but you have a different pov where you might notice more if it's about you.
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Post Post #1952 (isolation #93) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:11 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1949, Kaito Momota wrote:What does playing as a team mean?
What do you mean by this?
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Post Post #1953 (isolation #94) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:23 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1951, Kaito Momota wrote:
In post 1824, davesaz wrote:Reviewing myself to bring this game back into memory.
In post 1261, davesaz wrote:Kaito suddenly hyperposts despite being in no personal danger.
Why did that happen?
I don't remember if I was satisfied that we understood this.
In post 1932, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
In post 1919, Kaito Momota wrote:Go on

There's no evidence that you've read anything in thread past post 1260
i originally v read you for having a doesnt care vibe but youve kinda switched to really confident/aggressive since a wagon appeared on you which is sort of my idea of typical villa!mser to typical wolf!mser
Do you think these 2 statements are in conflict?
Both our scumreads increased, seems to me that they're in sync.
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Post Post #1958 (isolation #95) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:33 pm

Post by davesaz »

Only scum make distractions. As of I thought you were scum making a distraction to stop a wagon.

Sheep's statement is that he thinks a shift from quiet to aggressive is more likely to be scum.

They are completely different topics, but they both result in scumreads.
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Post Post #1962 (isolation #96) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:46 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1673, Wisdom wrote:elsa/sheep/someone

im starting to consider chara
In post 1861, Wisdom wrote:elsa/sheep/chara
In post 1863, Wisdom wrote:oh yeah forgot about dave

he can be scum too
Trying on teams for size, to see if anyone bites.
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Post Post #1963 (isolation #97) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:48 pm

Post by davesaz »

What exactly is scummy about the other posts?
Sheep and I are talking about two different points in time, before and after Kaito had votes.
Kaito's trying to call that an inconsistency where someone is wrong.
Then he's saying I should take Sheep to task? Why?
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Post Post #1964 (isolation #98) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:49 pm

Post by davesaz »

Followup on Wisdom -- he's tossing all those one liners and doing nothing to try to convince anyone.
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Post Post #1969 (isolation #99) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:15 pm

Post by davesaz »

Look at the post numbers. Iirc the sheep post you’re referring to is 300-400 posts later.

Nikk was a compromise to avoid nl.

You may be confusing the concept of past and present. At that point in time. This goes with first sentence but I’m on tablet and don’t want to move it.

Whether wisdom is always like this doesn’t matter. I think he’s scum, full stop.
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Post Post #1970 (isolation #100) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:17 pm

Post by davesaz »

Btw the full text you quoted is the towniest post of all time. You’re just as bad at thinking as I remember.
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Post Post #1979 (isolation #101) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:16 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 1973, Chara wrote:come to think of it, saying town Clem shouldn't have refuted Elsa's mason claim is weird. fakeclaiming masons can be a bad idea to begin with depending on who it is, even if you have a townread on that player. why is saying "no, we aren't" so much stranger than doing some pointless hedging like you suggest town Clem who is townreading Elsa should do?
You must have misread something.
Someone you townread calls you masons with them, you act like it's a joke.
Someone you scumread calls you masons, you refute it immediately.
Going along with it and then dropping it is scummy.
The above presumes playing town like I do -- honestly and putting thought into it. If Clem is town, my mistake is expecting him to play like me.

@Wisdom -- prove to me that you have reasons to believe the things you post.
I don't especially care if they are good or bad reasons.
I remember you being willing to engage and do that when someone needed you to.
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Post Post #1991 (isolation #102) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:34 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1982, Chara wrote:Clem's own explanation at the top of this page makes sense, he wasn't sure. what about that do you find strange for town to do?
You're having a hard time too, with the term "at that point in time". I'm fine with Clem's response, now. Back then it felt scummy. :roll:
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Post Post #2092 (isolation #103) » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:11 am

Post by davesaz »

Insert standard question about single game meta.
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Post Post #2093 (isolation #104) » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:13 am

Post by davesaz »

Oh btw I’m camping this weekend. V/la till Sunday afternoon.
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Post Post #2094 (isolation #105) » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:14 am

Post by davesaz »

Not that mod is present to care... :roll:
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Post Post #2163 (isolation #106) » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:30 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2144, Elsa Jay wrote:
In post 2143, Wisdom wrote:maki is kaito not scum anymore?
It's not because Maki or Kaito townread each other. It's that they git more important things to do since Maki is self resolving.

Speaking of That: Maki, you cool with going on Wisdom? If you die then he's cleared and all.
I think I've said this before, but
Maki is not self resolving

Saying someone is their target is meaningless. We would need to be able to verify an actual visit. It's trivial to say a target and no action or go somewhere else.
I know that you're not incapable of knowing this.

I agree with Wisdom [shudder].
VOTE: Elsa Jay
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Post Post #2190 (isolation #107) » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:01 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2188, Wisdom wrote:what the fuck should i do so people dont fucking read me catching scum as tvt

It happens all the fucking time and its outrageous
You actually gave a reason on Elsa. Was that unintentional? Giving reasons would go a hell of a long way toward helping people see it isn't svt with you the s.
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Post Post #2191 (isolation #108) » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:02 am

Post by davesaz »

What should I do about people reading my 50-60 hour work week and ability to see town or scum in anyone as scummy?
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Post Post #2192 (isolation #109) » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:03 am

Post by davesaz »

I don't remember Firebringer having enough actual fire this game.
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Post Post #2291 (isolation #110) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:56 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2264, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1997, Elsa Jay wrote:Back to Kaito again?

Sheep, Kaito gets a pass for now. He's either scum with Wisdom or just very prideful at the moment. Killing Wisdom solves that puzzle for us.

I said this before about Kaito (Dunn) in Limbo, but honestly leaving him alive seems more beneficial now that I finally remembered that experience and calmed down a bit.

Wisdom is our optimal choice. Kaito is the Red Herring. Lady Angel is our backup option because Gamma should
eventually
show up and replace her and prod the others.
In post 2015, Elsa Jay wrote:Chara don't be indecisive, that's how scum (Wisdom) can eventually get a mislynch on you.

From my perspective, Wisdom is setting up a lynch on you now. Dont let that slide.
In post 2069, Elsa Jay wrote:Wisdom went off the deep end and is going for me, Clem, and Maki. He's brainwashed Chara to his side.
In post 2146, Elsa Jay wrote:Are we all gonna actually let someone replace into this game to stall out the lynch? If we stall it out any longer there won't even be much of a game with no interest in it.

Please guys, be sensible. We have 2 claimed PRs. 4 living people claiming Miller still, the main one we want to lynch being gone.

Do you REALLY want someone to replace into a Miller Slot?
cmon look at these posts, especially the last

you cant tell me you don't see the narrative building and him trying to control the thoughts and actions of others
I agree with this post.

Also Elsa has been buddying/WKing Clem, which I pointed out earlier. If Clem isn't scum for that mason thing then Elsa is.
Don't act like there's nothing to my vote there. You finally (after how many RL days) did something that makes me think it's possible for you to be town.
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Post Post #2294 (isolation #111) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:33 am

Post by davesaz »

You don’t think scum Elsa would try to exploit pocketing Clem?
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Post Post #2297 (isolation #112) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:37 am

Post by davesaz »

Town by definition don’t pocket.
Maybe you meant something else?
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Post Post #2298 (isolation #113) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:38 am

Post by davesaz »

Fine asshole. Do whatever you like.
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Post Post #2300 (isolation #114) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:39 am

Post by davesaz »

If I say something I believe it. Period. I never make shit up.
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Post Post #2302 (isolation #115) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:41 am

Post by davesaz »

replace out
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Post Post #2304 (isolation #116) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:43 am

Post by davesaz »

I hate miller with a passion, should have just refused the role.
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Post Post #2322 (isolation #117) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:36 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2293, Wisdom wrote:there was nothing ai about the Mason thing and you trying to say otherwise feels bad
In post 2300, davesaz wrote:If I say something I believe it. Period. I never make shit up.
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Post Post #4235 (isolation #118) » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:03 am

Post by davesaz »

I have had the unfortunate responsibility as a mod to disallow an action which came after deadline.
My philosophy is the same as golf -- play it how it lies.

My approach to night actions is to send a preliminary action very early, and then change it if warranted. With a 48 hour deadline there's no good reason to be waiting until 60+ hour mark.

I will agree that I thought Gamma's lack of attention to the game made the modding feel a little underwhelming.
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Post Post #4241 (isolation #119) » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:45 am

Post by davesaz »

I thought Jingle did pretty well with the available material, but it was a pretty tough spot.
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