Open 745: 9:12 [Game Over]

[Sleepless Assassin]

Vote cultofathena

[Sleepless Assassin]

cultofathena, why are dogs cute?
sleepless assassin, do you think that there's money to be made in smuggling memorabilia?
ofrhz, why did you roll scum?
eyes without a face, why did they stop making honey gold wheaties?
rooroo, what is your favorite shearable animal?
slaxx, should seesaws be banned?
kitcat, do you believe in ghosts?

please answer these questions everyone

I'll get back to you. I gotta ask OJ.

___________

Oh God, kitcat still thinks scum don't draw attention.

___________

Pink ball would probably be my second choice for a vote right now.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Because I'm drawing attention? So you caught two scums because of calling attention? Is calling attention only a scum trait, or can town call attention too?

Is this at me? I don't believe that one alignment gets attention more than the other. It depends on the other players, not the player who attention is actually on. "Drawing attention" is a non-tell that new players tend to use as a tell.

[Sleepless Assassin]

cultofathena, why are dogs cute?
sleepless assassin, do you think that there's money to be made in smuggling memorabilia?
ofrhz, why did you roll scum?
eyes without a face, why did they stop making honey gold wheaties?
rooroo, what is your favorite shearable animal?
slaxx, should seesaws be banned?
kitcat, do you believe in ghosts?

please answer these questions everyone

I'll get back to you. I gotta ask OJ.

___________

Oh God, kitcat still thinks scum don't draw attention.

___________

Pink ball would probably be my second choice for a vote right now.

@Sleepless elaborate on the part about kitcat

See post 47. If you need more than that, you're going to have to get specific.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Kitcat makes this mistake often?

No clue.

Sorry I think I made a conclusion that wasn't correct. You said that kitkat thought that drawing attention wasn't scummy, implying that calling attention could be scummy, and then said that I would be your second option for voting, so I assumed you were saying I was drawing attention and that you would vote me because of that

The two were unrelated.

You've seemingly indicated that I'm your first choice for a vote. Why? For that matter, why is Pink Ball your second choice?

Your vote seemed like it may have been designed to draw a reaction that could be blown up. Mostly the timing. Rooroos opening made him seem like the kind of player who could fall victim to that. Your play since that and his have me convinced I was way off base. Pink ball's trust me I'm nice thing and his next few posts just felt awkward and gave me a weird vibe. I don't know if it's a personality thing or if he is uncomfortable playing scum the way some people tend to be, but it grabbed my attention. Talk to me about ofhrtz. What are you seeing there? I actually like him for town after pointing out that he didn't answer a question when invisibility unvoted him.

(For me, the only way to stay engaged in an all and all disengaged game is to be here and do nothing. It's not going to be like that the whole game. I have some medium rare thoughts, I don't want to flip them before they get cooked well

There's no good reason for town not to share these thoughts.

Unvoted, Vote Pink Ball

[Sleepless Assassin]

i guess i should share i think kitcat sounds the most genuine

i also kinda like slaxx for town BUT IM NOT TELLING YOU WHY so he cant conform his play <=== invisibility

using the real smrats
lol i meant to spell my name wrong but i spelled it right on accident lmaomaomaoamoamaoma

pedit
UNVOTE:
uh ok

Scum points to SA for just totally ignoring the same “tell” on the same page as this one. Looks like someone interpreting selectively to fit a narrative.

If they'd done the exact same thing, I'd see where you are coming from. Invisibility said you are town but doesn't want to say why. Pink ball seems to be choosing not to share anything at all despite claiming to have some thoughts.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I'm giving it a pass tho. Tunneling comes from town, and the way he worded his post about me doesn't seem to be coming from "scum who is pushing an easy mislynch" but rather "town who thinks he already solved the game"

Interesting. I'm not sure where you see tunneling when I don't have scum reads I'm confident in yet. Calling me town for thinking I have the game solved is weird enough. Doing it when I'm still unsure is just confusing.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Do other people here know roo’s main?

I feel like I’m missing something.

No

[Sleepless Assassin]

Meh, you're probably the closest thing I have to a scum read, sure. With the first quote, I was hoping to hear some of your reads. The second had more to do with invisibility than you and why I didn't have a problem with his post.

[Sleepless Assassin]

@invis: are you usually that flip floppy with your vote? and is it just at the start of the game or an all-game-long thing?

ofrhz replace out is odd. not sure why they would do that, but I think I read somewhere that it's against the rules if they were scum, so maybe they're town for that reason?

Yeah that's not a rule. Some questions for you though. Are you usually slow to develop reads? Are you planning on doing something to get reads or just hoping they come to you? If you're doing something, what is it and when?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Eragon, I don't have a good enough memory to remember who posted every single post number and I'm not clicking every single one of your links, so if anything in your catchup is directed at me please address it specifically at me. Your reads list at the end of those posts at least gives me an idea but otherwise it's hard to follow where you stand exactly. Hopefully real time interaction will fix that though.

Also, can you summarize your case on Slaxx?

<-Scratch that actually. Your back and forth with him is giving me a good idea of it.

Am I usually slow to develop reads? I guess. There hasn't been much to base any reads on anyway.
Am I planning on doing something to get reads? Like what? I dunno what to do to get reads. It usually develops over time by looking for contradictions in someones posts.
What is it? I just told you. I am waiting for someone to say something that looks like a contradiction to what they said earlier. That's all I can do on day one I guess. I believe we can get more information during the night though so maybe I will have more to say on day two if we are lucky.

Ok, cool. So this can be chalked up to playstyle. That's all I was looking for. Just to be safe though, can you link me your last three games?

3- I don't want it to look like I'm voting kitcat because she's voting me.

Yikes. I mean at first glace this is bad, but putting it in the thread where it didn't need to be kind of shows an openness that I usually associate with town. Slaxx makes a good point though that you didn't really give a good reason to vote him. It kinda feels like overjustifying a PoE vote. And PoE at this stage of the game is kinda unnatural feeling.

2. NGL I have seen scum “pocket” scum before

Hmm, really? Can you give an example?

#49 Are you serious? I didn’t get an answer to my question and SA had posted since then. If anything I should be a townread for the follow up, in means I’m genuinely interested in the answer and not just trying to look busy

Ok maybe that’s a bit much yes, but I still think you wait until it’s obvious he doesn’t respond, then ask.

Cause there’s a good possiblity he just didn’t reach that point in thread and was still catching up.

Actually, my post addressed it. Slaxx, you said "elaborate" and that's what I had done.

Eragon's catchup is bad in my books. The last post, specially, saying that either me or sleepless is scum and the other town, seems like preparing lynches beforehand. I think there's nothing to come to the conclusion that one of us is town and the other one is scum exclusively. We could both be scum, for example. If Sleepless flipped scum, would I become town because of how Sleepless is scumreading me or because of how I reacted to his scumread on me? No, there's nothing of that. Eragon, on that matter, seems to have the ulterior motive to note this in order to lynch one of us first and the other one when the first one flips town.

Funny. I had something similar typed out about Eragon's TvS point and then I got to your post. I agree completely. TvS feels like a completely random label and I can't think of any reason why he would feel that way. It looks like he just put it there and ran with it rather than actually seeing it first. Actually though...I typed that out and then saw his reply:

so, my catchup is bad because you disagree with one post. coolio. good deflection. But, i thought i was pretty clear. I scumread you both individually, but i also don't think you are ever in a team. This happens because I don't think, first of all, scum is bussing in this playlist and game speed. there is no point because before i got to this game coasting was the word and literally nothing was happening. So the fact that sleepless was voting you, and you "FELT" like you were being tunneled is never SvS because even if scum were bussing, the "FEEL" like you were being tunneled wouldn't have happened unless you were faking it. I think the feeling is genuine, and you genuinely felt you were being tunneled. its just that feeling is wolfy. There is some of that. I seem to note this because ITS WHAT I FUCKING THINK. how is it lining up lynches for me thinking its TvS? i have plenty of reasons to believe its TvS, and i feel confident enough in my skill and my reads to push this. how is having a read fucking ultierior motive? if we lynch one of you and they flip scum, im confident in the other being town. nice. If we lynch one of you and they flip town, im confident in the other being scum. nice. as i said. i . have clear scumreads of both of you individually, and i think you are never scumbuddies. I gave clear progression and saying i have no other motive except lining up lynches is wolfy as shit.

And now it just looks like I was reading "TvS" the wrong way. So it's that Pink Ball and I are independent scum reads but not scum together. It wasn't something in our discussion that made Eragon go "Oh, one of these two is scum". That actually makes more sense. I feel scatter brained this game. Ugh.

So that makes me pretty confident that the scumteam is in my nullreads. We'll need those sweet interactions now.

See, this is what I'm afraid of. I'm having trouble getting any scum reads. I also don't really have a read on Cult, kit, or rooroo. If 1-2 of those three are scum, it would explain my difficulties.

VOTE: Slaxx

Reason: Out of my 4 unsorted slots

1- I didn't want to put Pink Ball at L-1 in case he is town.
2- I didn't want to make Assassins an equally competent wagon in case Pink Ball was scum.
3- I don't want it to look like I'm voting kitcat because she's voting me.

This strikes me as kinda townie? Maybe?
Like it's bad reasoning but I'm not sure it's scummy reasoning really

What makes it town?

VOTE: Athena

Yeah you're gonna have to explain that one.

But your response makes me feel better, because you are not arguing your alignment, but arguing the evidence. It's like you're saying "It's not what you know. It's what you can prove." which works in a court of law, but not in an online game.

lol what?

Also, people wanted me to try harder and give reads and I did just that. What's wrong with that?

Don't get me wrong, it's good that you did and I don't want to create a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario but... it's the timing. The fact that you made a point to have reads immediately after it was pointed out that not having them was an issue. Your response sounded like your playstyle is slow and you will point them out as they come to you. And if that's the way you play, fine. That's probably what town-you would do. But the fact that you rushed a bunch of reads together after saying you are slow to do so feels like appeasing. The only reason to do that is to try to look good. That's why it kind of feels like it might be coming from a scum mindset to me.

But there’s a very real possibility both were scum. Why did you initially assume Assassin was town in that scenario? Especially when you think you have it narrowed down to four.

This feels like scum caught for the wrong reasons and not finding a way to back off.

Uhhh, how?

_____________________

Unvote, Vote Eyes

[Sleepless Assassin]

V/LA until Saturday

I have ridiculous amounts of free time Saturday through Tuesday and will definitely catch up then barring something unexpected.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Ok, let's see how much of a dent I can put in this read.

________________

Eragon:

“14 after somewhere around 9-10 posts in the thread, opening with a naked vote and then disappearing is a bit awkward, and I feel its just kinda… boring? I feel town opens up with a comment similar to cult of athena, with some sort of funny remark on the going-ons, but just dropping a vote and disappearing is… just kinda blegh. “


But as this was in RvS I didn’t make a huge deal out of it, it just started me off on a bad feel.

Looking at the time stamp, I "disappeared" because I went to bed. I explained the vote in 119

“31 this feels like unnessecary shade on kitcat, I could be wrong if I’m reading the implications wrong, and why do you think pink ball is a good vote?”

This was the post with “oh god kit cat still thinks scum doesn’t draw attention” and “pinkball is my second choice for vote.

Nah, I wasn't scumreading kitcat. On page 2, the "trust me" comment was why I wanted to pressure pink ball and try to read him better.

47 it might just be because I replaced in but I really don’t understand the reasoning behind this post or why you posted it.

Just explain plz

It was in response to post 32.

Then why did you say “kitcat still thinks scum doesn’t draw attention” or whatever you said?

Because she said someone was too attention grabbing to be scum. It had nothing to do with meta. I've never played with kitcat.

I dont see any bad timing with the RvS post and I feel it was a nice, natural post. I do agree cult got towny as the day went on(in a sense). Agree about Pinkball. Why is it towny that ofhrz pointed out he didn’t answer a question?

As I said, I realized after Cult posted more that I was off base, but it felt like Cult thought roo would be an easy target to push a Day 1 wagon on. ofhrz pointing out that he didn't answer a question felt town because if he had avoided the question as scum, I can't think of a reason why he'd bring it back up later. As town, it sounds more like he's trying to get a read on whoever asked the question.

"148 uhh I don’t understand this post please explain. And this does feel like shade actually, like “interesting, I dont know how or why you see this and its weird and confusing” just doesn’t sit right. I don’t feel that assassin and pinkball are ever SvS though.”

I didn't understand where the tunneling comment came from. It didn't feel like an accurate representation of what I was doing. I know he called me town for it, but I still wanted to dig into his thought process to see if it felt genuine or not. Basically, I wanted more of an explanation than what he gave.

“154 This is probably just semantics but stating “you’re probably the closest thing I have to a scumread” makes it sound you don’t actually have a scumread? Am I right in saying this or am I looking to much into wording?”

You've got it right. I never really got a scum read on Day 1 of this game. My votes were more to feel people out and try to read them better.

__________________________

also this is probably town? but whatever

idk I just lolhammered town penguinpower for an obviously fake reaction to a fakehammer that turned out to be real

town do a lot of ridiculous things and they do them more often than scum

^This could be scum who knew Eyes was town. Also don't like the "lol" reaction to Eyes power role hunting and telling scum to shoot her power role read. That move by Eyes was blatantly playing against her win condition. It could have fucked us over. I can't imagine why town would find that funny.

This flips scum.

“I developed reads slowly”

“I have the game solved”

Okay

This, on the other hand, sounds like town who is confident we lynched correctly.

So I think town here means SA tomorrow, his vote looked the least organic

And Roo for unique and thoughtful perspectives that seem hard for town to fake

Elaborate.

____________________

Will read Day 2 tomorrow at the latest.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Looking at the time stamp, I "disappeared" because I went to bed. I explained the vote in 119

Your vote was just sort of there and bandwagonish and I'm skeptical of it

My vote was the first one there and only sat there until page 5.

^This could be scum who knew Eyes was town. Also don't like the "lol" reaction to Eyes power role hunting and telling scum to shoot her power role read. That move by Eyes was blatantly playing against her win condition. It could have fucked us over. I can't imagine why town would find that funny.

I htought those posts of rooroo's were actually fairly townie.

I don't think the 'lol' was at Eyes per se, or at finding him funny, more at the absurdity of the situation as a whole

Still not a funny situation.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Kitcat:

My vote on eyes was bandwagony? The only vote there was yours which was RVS if I'm not mistaken.

On roo, it just looks like a scum mindset. To see a town player implode and hurt the game in that way, I can see scum loving it. As I've said already, town should be nothing short of pissed off. Like, ok you died. You didn't play well. Fine. Move on. But for eyes to tell us she had a power role read on someone, suggest scum kill that person, and say "I got what I wanted" after being lynched, yeah it's upsetting to know you're in a game where that person is on your team.

Ok I'm gonna go read up now

[Sleepless Assassin]

Hey kitcat, this is what a town reaction to Eyes looks like:

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

I can go on a rant about Eyes but I'll save it for post game.

_____________

On the slaxx/kit back and forth:
Basically I get where slaxx is coming from. Being wrong sucks but it happens. I know what it's like to lose confidence in reads after being so sure and being wrong. Kits point about overconfidence does nothing for me. Eyes going from no reads to a reads list so soon did look like appeasement. Also considering a town flip is fine because slaxx is experienced enough to know he doesn't always have perfect reads.

_________

Cult,

if slaxx was baiting as scum why wouldn't he just deny that he was baiting?

(ok, I see later you said you don't think he'd bait as town. I disagree but ok.) Slaxx's 515 is also a good point. Voting a 50/50 read over an always scum read makes no sense. And I'd love to know why I'm always scum.

It was part thinking that you're the higher value scum lynch as compared to a higher likelihood lynch and part just not wanting to change my vote after a single post, just on the principle of it.

This feels like someone who is too concerned with their own appearance.

__________

Since everyone is talking about the NK:
I have no idea. I thought it was a weird kill. I was starting to think pink ball was probably town but he was hard to read. I can't come up with much as far as who it might implicate. I don't think any two players are here who are inexperienced enough to not know what a good kill is so... Maybe just people who saw him as townier than I did?

____________

I've played with SA before. He was good – really good. He was a big part of the resaon town won, and I might've even called him "powertown".

Now, that game was a while ago now—maybe even a year, now that I think about it—and I get that it's not necessarily fair to expect someone to play the same in every single game. Even still, he's just not here this game. Hasn't really asked any good questions, hasn't had any good presence. Those things are enough that I'd take them as scum-indicative on their own, but for SA especially it's noticeable.

Sure, he's had big effort posts like 297, but that seems to me like scum forcing themselves to put a lot into a game rather than town naturally having investment into a game.

What makes you think my alignment is the difference between the two games rather than simply real life being busy?

SA's vote was quite awful actually - he actually voted him in the same post he called him town, iirc. It felt kinda opportunistic to me

Scum do things that look town and town does things that look like scum. In that post I was still trying to read eyes. I wasn't ready for a lunch yet. I was trying to get a read on eyes.

_______________

Cult's stuff about scum needing her lynched feels like an attempt to scare people away from voting there. Like, she gave gamestate as a reason so I assume she means the fact that everyone has too many town reads, so why doesn't the same thing apply to slaxx or myself?

___________

Slaxx, when i said elaborate, I was looking for specific posts and what specifically makes you feel that way.

___________

Vote

:

Cult

My best guess is a cult/roo team.

_____________

Kit, it was probably a knee jerk reaction. I don't expect a post that just says lol to be well thought out.

Mod Edit: Changed 'Vote Cult' to 'Vote: Cult' as the votecounter will not register votes without a ':'

[Sleepless Assassin]

Why?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Individually but I don't see any reason they can't be scum together.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I could say the same thing though because I know for a fact that I am town and think you are scum. From anyone else's outside view, not knowing our alignments, it doesn't apply any more to you than it does to me. And if slaxx is town, scum would also need him lynched from your narrative. So why didn't you consider the current wagons and who is on them when this logic crossed your mind? It makes me think you aren't using it to scumhunt. It's more like you are trying to keep people from voting you by saying anyone who does must be scum.

[Sleepless Assassin]

@SA it was only one post you voted Eyes in so I can’t really quote a series of posts. I don’t think you were around after that push (you were v/la)
.

So is organic just a buzzword you used or was there a reason for it? And why can't you get specific on the roo thing?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Those don't look like posts scum can't make...

[Sleepless Assassin]

Those don't look like posts scum can't make...

Who is this talking about?

In response to slaxx about roo.

___________

My roo roo posts.

I mean since we are all people with keyboards we can all type the exact same things but I am being a pedant

However I think those things are LESS likely to come from scum than they are town which is the point.

I get that that's your opinion but I guess what I'm missing is the why. I can't follow what leads you to that conclusion. Just like your comment about my eyes vote not looking organic.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Unvote, Vote

:

Slaxx

Doc can't exist with my role. I'm a tracker. Kitcat went nowhere N1. Other town power role has to be follower or vanilla cop.

Mod Edit: Changed 'Vote Slaxx' to 'Vote: Slaxx' as the votecounter will not register votes without a ':'