Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

[Shoshin the worst]

o_0

I don't know why you think that was flavour fishing nor why you think that's some kind of smoking gun. "day vig" just looked so different from Kokichi's "there is no cow level" last time.

you've now spent like an irl week being useless Varsoon

[Shoshin the worst]

And @The Worst, what are your thoughts on Pinturicchio incorrectly applying this as a “towntell” for your slot?

...idk? I don't like that kind of read anyway (it's angleshooty and stupid) so I mostly ignored it. I just like the concept of retaining a level of holism wrt gamestate & how myself and others are viewing the game so I didn't think it was AI either but like I don't pay enough attention to know if I do it more as one alignment or the other

[Shoshin the worst]

Regardless I feel like Chara has 50 times the clout you do in this list... If you think it's scum and wanna do something about it let's see whatcha got

how are you reading Kokichi for this?
~Chara

Were kinda baffled by it. It gave brief towny daft flail energy the same way his pushback on the worst did in SCM1 (don't think it says anything about your alignment since he's half assing--just maybe his). that said it's a pretty easy lazy read to have as scum and I'm not sure it's something that doesn't occur to Kokichi naturally. I kinda feel like there should be some way I want to read this but I'm not really reading it strongly.

Do you have a spicier take?

[Shoshin the worst]

I'm giving up hope on Varsoon being useful today. His reads are so shit and he's so useless he's probably never getting nightkilled even if this claim is real. (if it's fake I just hope the actual vig has common sense and shoots him).

[Shoshin the worst]

Mewt or Nico are fine lynches right now as far as I can tell. They aren't the only people I scumread/don't townread but they're the slots I feel better about lynching.

NR flipping red would actually be fairly interesting given the way some slots have orbited around her today.
Mewt feels like a wolf.

We still have a couple of days right? No one be a flake please.

[Shoshin the worst]

Lynch pool for being scummy: {Alchemist21, Almost Chara, Shoshin the worst}
Up for policy lynch: {Nancy}

Steamrolling with the biggest wagon that forms on any of these three + Nancy.

So you've got one obvtown in your lynches, us, and a two townreads.
Why.... aren't you more disturbed by this gamestate given this apparently means ALL of your townreads are in the communal lynchpool? you naked voted us then quoted our vote on you saying "die.". I don't buy that you think we're wolfing for a second.

[Shoshin the worst]

I don't see any disconnect between 204 and 297

There is. That's his first game-advancing content and 297 completely misinterprets the second half of my question. His "I'm not redoubling on the mistakes I messed up" reads as AtE. I wouldn't buy it if I were you.

Why do either of these things actually come from scum tho?
This is tinfoil at best. Straight up.

[Shoshin the worst]

@Mewtaph: Alchemist rebutted your attack on him, you left it at that though - why?
Rationale for STW, Almost Chara?
Why a policy lynch on Nancy?

~Jimothy

It's how scum would respond from beginning to end. Me trying to push Alchemist through here requires thread presence I don't have - Nancy is acting as a huge obstacle to me pushing him at all and reflecting votes onto me in a very destructive manner.

Tl;dr, the rebuttal is how a scum responds and the basis of his approach to me isn't how town thinks. I'm not responding to a hard SR

Nobody's an obstacle and nobody is compromising your agency here. You haven't said anything that makes Alchemist sound even remotely like scum. Case at will.

On AC: They aren't a town read and I'm much more interested in exploring where Kokichi is going with this rather than discarding what he's saying completely and toss him into the "ML and ignore" pile. A50 has been notably "muted" in presence compared to what I expect from him in other games, so if someone has a chip on the Chara head then I'm willing to roll with a wagon on them.

Why would you expect A50 to be a vocal force in this hydra after SCM1?
Show me why you townread Kokichi's contributions (there are reasons for sure) & why you scumread AC? This is nonsensical sorry.

This isn't how town responds to reacting to something stopping a public dayvig shot on them "outside of their knowledge" by the way.

Yes it literally is
I didn't believe Varsoon's claim at face value, and wasn't even slightly surprised to still be alive
How do you expect town-us to respond differently?


(still going. bit busy tonight.)

[Shoshin the worst]

@ProFlavor talk me through what the rationale of seeing those Mewtaph posts and winding up at "yeah wow Mewtaph is town, I'm going to vote STW instead"
That was the strangest reaction I've seen ITT so far. His reasoning isn't even slightly towny.

[Shoshin the worst]

I don't know what you're trying to achieve with your posts other than discredit me and insist that I'm scum, and yes, I don't town read you at all for your approach to Varsoon.

Don't duck the conversation
I'm trying to work our your thought process here because you just dropped a bunch of really bizarre reads that I absolutely don't relate to so I want to see where you're coming from

[Shoshin the worst]

Coming from the head who was part of quickhammering you last game I literally don't remember you being even slightly upset by me trying to engage you when you were town and I was scum. What's the difference here?

[Shoshin the worst]

Yeah I don't follow you on scum!Alchemist at all, I'm sorry
if you feel like I'm being obtuse could you lay it out for me quickly?

[Shoshin the worst]

.....the fuck is anyone townreading this? I'm gonna speak to my partner but this is a joke.

[Shoshin the worst]

Okay I prefer being s/s read than you thinking Mewt is town lol. we can lynch him today np

[Shoshin the worst]

This is not town. This is not how town approaches the game. Alchemist is not town.

Could you respond to any of the things I asked you?
At all?

I don't see how you're town approaching this right now.

[Shoshin the worst]

Like when I'm struggling with a game and doing my best to engage, when people call my play a joke, I often type out several very violent threats and then backspace them because I don't actually mean them, but I am very pissed off.

-V

That's why I reached out to him and he then said he couldn't be bothered engaging with me and walked.
In SCM1 he did the EXACT OPPOSITE when he was town and the worst was scum pretending to engage him.

Why the difference?
This is actually bizarre. Can't believe you're not seeing it at all.

[Shoshin the worst]

i finally, finally, understand what Mewtaph is saying about Alchemist with respect to those two posts.
i think there have been some issues with word choice/communication that have made something simple seem a lot more complicated than it was.

i'm agreeing with the Mewtaph townread, though it's not that strong. don't feel like lynching him today. my reasons are essentially the same as Varsoon's.
~Chara

I get where he's coming from wrt Alchemist but I'm still not sure where he sees scum!Alchemist. There's too much "matching reasons to conclusion" energy. Am I biased or is it genuinely pretty abstract?

[Shoshin the worst]

Plus, compare Mew's parsing of things out to STW's "This is so obviously scum! Lynch it!" approach, y'know?
It's night and day to me.

-V

I'm sorry what does this even mean?
He's....slowly talking through things in circles and making unbelievable stances?
We're completly uncharismatically headbutting slots to get reads on them?

Have you ever successfully read a loud player's alignment?

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: Kokichi
If this greens I'll reconsider AC
Otherwise I'm treating them as basically hard town

[Shoshin the worst]

Mewtaph is still a great vote if people pull their heads out but I'm losing faith in this list rapidly

[Shoshin the worst]

hey STW, i'll answer in a second, but i've been wondering why you're townreading us so much. i think you said earlier why (even if i don't remember), but are you paranoid of our slot at all?
~Chara

Very marginally but we've kind of not seen anything that's made us think you're a wolf.
If anything we'd be scumreading you for that very reason and that doesn't seem like a very productive exercise right now..

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: Kokichi
If this greens I'll reconsider AC
Otherwise I'm treating them as basically hard town

Why is Kokichi a so much better vote than Nico?

Jjh will actually play the game.
Kokichi is being aggressively bad.

@AC I wouldn't scumread you based on Kokichi's meta. I might just consider it in greater than face value which is pretty much how I'm treating it currently.

[Shoshin the worst]

Mewtaph is still a great vote if people pull their heads out but I'm losing faith in this list rapidly

This is a false bravado and an attempt to discredit the player list.

I feel we’re actually a strong playerlist, and whoever said this is attempting to cause doubt within town.

It’s Day 1. Nobody should genuinely have that kind of attitude towards the game state.

~Leaf

Bruh it should be pretty obvious why I have that approach to the gamestate. It's got nothing to do with the strength of the list. I genuinely just don't get the Mewtaph townread even slightly and nobody is taking the time to point me in the right direction which has me wondering if they're not super confident on it either.

[Shoshin the worst]

Kokichi is also mislynch bait this early in the game. Shoshin is super scum.

~Leaf

"let's not lynch him because he's lynchbait" is agenda driven thinking. Kokichi's iso is high wolf equity lol.
don't position our slot like this. take a few minutes to try and see what we're seeing?

[Shoshin the worst]

The fact that Varsoon, Mewtaph, and I are the three on Shoshin right now shows me that this is more than likely a scum slot.

Varsoon is hard town here. I’ve recently gotten to witness directly both townVarsoon and scumVarsoon, and really I’ve known Varsoon for like 4 and a half years now, so I’m pretty happy with my read there.

Mewtaph is town for the wagon composition. Mustang and Nancy pushing onto a townie the way they did makes total sense, and then people, and scumShoshin, decide to jump on to Mewtaph.

This also semi incriminates Jjh slot, but I’ll let them catchup first.

I realize my slot will probably be tried to use as a counterwagon option after pushing Shoshone like this, so unless you wanna try to 1v1 me and out explain the damn awful play it would have been to let Mewtaph live in this situation as scum...well, go for it. I could have just kept not playing the game and allowing Profii to play in that situation. Mewtaph likely would have been killed.

So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Long story short, Only town are on the Shoshin wagon right now. Bet.

Hrrrrrkkkkkkkkk
This is still confbiased or agenda driven thinking....

I don't see how you just loljump to the conclusion that because you townread the entire wagon it must be on scum. that's a nonsensical conclusion and is actually heavily inconsistent with scumplay (you can't think both of our scumbuddies would just be hanging back while we go down surely. this is an optimal softbus/distance gamestate and it's radiant). an all town wagon us here is town indicative via vca and you're not convincing me on anything else.

I also don't townread the full wagon and don't understand why you do.

But your bizarre conclusions are more of a problem.

[Shoshin the worst]

it's a foolish one if so (not that i'm discounting your interpretation).
what's pretty bizarre to me is the belief that Kokichi's alignment has anything to do with mine here, as though his bad meta read on me has credence provided he's town.

but Leaf, do you think STW decides to have their cake and eat it too, by which i mean continuing to have us as strong town while also trying to lynch someone i don't want to lynch, and leave us open as a target on later days?

and thanks for the answer, Nancy.
~Chara

I don't think Kokichi's alignment is related to yours right now no
he was correct on scum!me last game and couldn't be bothered explaining it or revealing his triplevoting IC role that would have confirmed me scum


so if he does flip green I'll take his read on you like 1% seriously and actually see how I feel about it and whether it's worth engaging with you on.

[Shoshin the worst]

So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?

+1

#goodposting

[Shoshin the worst]

Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf

How? It literally doesn't.
You're saying he's town therefore the wagon is town therefore he's town because wagonomics

This is a weird logical cycle that doesn't check out at all

[Shoshin the worst]

Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf

Once again I repeat: Please explain it to me, like I’m 5. Ktankx.

I have.

Nothing scummy really from Mewtaph, you and Mustang have a tendency to tunnel onto townies, then the near lynch.

If you’re town, then you should feel scum followed you onto the wagon, tbh.

*scrolls up*
*scrolls back down*
*scrolls back up*
*scrolls back down*
*throws phone out window*

[Shoshin the worst]

But I definitely feel the lack of resistance towards Mewtaph prior to me coming in implies Mewtaph town.

Please list the people who you think should have resisted the Mewtaph wagon but didn't
The fuck did it even peak at - 4 votes? 5? I can't even remember. It was nowhere near an L-1. I don't think scum voted it. lol.

[Shoshin the worst]

What do you mean I’m not?

I feel I’m spouting it out pretty clearly.

He’s done nothing scummy, the 2 players who started it are known to tunnel, and there was no resistance before me.

That right there near locks him into town.

And this is BEFORE actually analyzing his play.

He’s been actively giving reads. He’s been asking questions. He’s been in the spot where he’s taking on multiple players at once. This is the epitome of a mislynch. He’s being extremely genuine, and showing thoughts of figuring out the game.

Mixed in with this and my town read of Varsoon, while seeing that U R A and Nancy are confused and trying to figure it out, I feel STW is near lock scum.

Honestly, probably with Mustang here.

You're not being clear at all. You've already decided the conclusion you're going to end up at so you're talking in circles until you get there. The fact your alleged townreads and your lock scumread are both as fucking confused as each other at your posting should probably tip you off that you're the one not expressing yourself properly...

[Shoshin the worst]

If this is actually all t/t scum is >rand lurking.
The way Mewtaph is ducking out all the pressure has me cringing again.

Jjh excusable due to rep in. Kokichi's pop ins are consistently bad. Pintu/Taly still worth keeping an eye on.
yeah I'm scumreading a lot of lurkers

[Shoshin the worst]

Leaf why are you talking so much shit

[Shoshin the worst]

I'll check the wagon peak later if I get the time

[Shoshin the worst]

Actually your Mewtaph townread is the bit I don't understand at all. I think you said the wagon is town because yoj townread him but you townread him due to his position on the wagon. If there's stuff outside of that clearly it soared over my head.

[Shoshin the worst]

Show me the inside of your head? I know you're good at reading these kinds of things. What was towny flail about it? Fmpov we called him out on nonsense reads, he froze up and exited the thread

[Shoshin the worst]

Do you think annoyed is AI when you're pushed back on heavily after putting out a lot of content which you probably think looks towny?

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: Mewtaph
Not going to vanity wagon this.
Also not sure how much free time either of us have before end of day.

[Shoshin the worst]

So are we....

[Shoshin the worst]

I think I'm too nice to flashlynch pinturicchio. He literally hasn't been onsite and he's reconsidering from surgery.
He's a very good faith player and will either come back swinging or be replaced if he's not in a state for mafia

We need to make a less bad lynch today.

[Shoshin the worst]

Unfortunately I don't think I like many of the wagons atm at all. I know this is a bad time to get cold feet on Mewtaph but the level of flail and swing around here is actually reminding me of d2 in SCM. I still strongly dislike the way he squirmed when I tried to reach out to him here vs. last game but I'm not sure it's a scumtell in isolation.

jjh would be a terrific flashwagon but we're too close to deadline.
lol Kokichi

gonna go re-weight reads rq

UNVOTE:

[Shoshin the worst]

{STW}
{Varsoon} - either conftown or obvscum. no one forget this ever.
{Meph39}
{Tibor and Lumia}
{Alchemist21}
{u r a person 2, Almost Chara}
^^^ prrrrrobably all town in order of confidence. if I'm wrong on a townread I think it's urap2/ac but I don't feel wrong on them

{ProFlavor}
{Michael Scott}
^^^ old townreads I can't remember if I like anymore

untiered:
Kokichi
jjh927
Mewtaph
Taly

[Shoshin the worst]

I feel really bad for saying this but it's close to deadline and we're considered as a viable lynch so:
This has pretty obviously been one head, both of us have been a little busy (hence need for hydraing) and need to resync really soon.
I'm probably gonna get punched for saying this

[Shoshin the worst]

Varsoon if you're actually comfortably town I think it's incredible you're not self aware enough to realise how pocketable you are via your deathtunneled on us. this wagon is never 100% town

[Shoshin the worst]

I soulread scum on jjh/Nico but I really like jjh and we don't get to play together much and I don't wanna fuck that up d1

[Shoshin the worst]

Votecount 1.14

Shoshin the worst(4)

~ Varsoon(170), Mewtaph(45), ProFlavor(128), Kokichi Oma(17)

Mewtaph(3)

~ Alchemist21(71), Mephistophanes 39(293), u r a person 2(93)

pinturicchio(2)

~ Tibor and Lumia(109), Taly(116)

jjh927(2)

~ Michael Scott(65), Almost Chara(111)

u r a person 2(1)

~ pinturicchio(45)

Kokichi Oma(1)

~ Shoshin the worst(238)


Not Voting (1): jjh927(11)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-17 04:00:38)

MOD REMINDERS

pinturicchio needs a prod. The last post was at: 1/12/2019 9:31:00 PM which was 2 days 19 hours 21 minutes 16 seconds ago. -- might be on health V/LA
Taly needs a prod. The last post was at: 1/12/2019 6:04:00 PM which was 2 days 22 hours 48 minutes 16 seconds ago.

FLAVOR

Spoiler:

Going for tiered empathy on our voters it's basically
Mewtaph >>> Varsoon > ProFlavor > Kokichi

It kinda checks out for Mewtaph to be like AW NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN as town and vote us. I can't decide if the freezing in real-time thing is more likely to come from scum or town if I'm completely honest. From one perspective it does suck to be bombed with questions and ridicule as scum who feels like you're doing well so reacting with like "ew you suck" because I'm not townreading him. but on the flip side this COULD be a genuine considered reaction given last time I reached out to him I was going for a last minute pocket before lolhammering him.

Maybe scum!Mewtaph thinks harder about the optics of not talking to us at all in real-time, putting us down then disappearing? I don't really know, anyone wanna check his scum meta or...?

Varsoon's push on us is offensively outside the realm of common sense and I've spoken about it a lot but I think the fact I'm genuinely annoyed by it says something

Pro's vote on us is frankly pockety and I've documented my wall of issues with the nonsense they're spewing.

Kokichi's play vs. {AC, us} is transparent self defence and...isn't towny....

[Shoshin the worst]

Anyone who doesn’t want to vote STW can you tell me why the difficulty of getting the wagon together isn’t scum indicative please

~ woof

We're like
overwhelmingly obviously town
even comparing to SCM1 where both heads were hard townread as scum d1 lol

[Shoshin the worst]

{STW}
{Varsoon} - either conftown or obvscum. no one forget this ever.
{Meph39}
{Tibor and Lumia}
{Alchemist21}
{u r a person 2, Almost Chara}
^^^ prrrrrobably all town in order of confidence. if I'm wrong on a townread I think it's urap2/ac but I don't feel wrong on them

{ProFlavor}
{Michael Scott}
^^^ old townreads I can't remember if I like anymore

untiered:
Kokichi
jjh927
Mewtaph
Taly

Is your untiered list, ordered?

If so, why is Taly at the bottom? I have a hard gut townread on him.

Also, why does Profilhead seem kind of townie and Eraserleaf, more like flaming scum?

The bottom bit isn't ordered, that's why I said it's untiered

I'll switch to jjh as a sheer compromise but if that slot's town we'll start to see it.
I don't trust my soul/gutreads because I am very capable of being biased.

[Shoshin the worst]

Auro did a thing I don't think scum!Auro does. Gonna treat Michael like they're town for now and reassess later if I need to.

[Shoshin the worst]

{STW}
{Varsoon} - either conftown or obvscum. no one forget this ever.
{Meph39}
{Tibor and Lumia}
{Alchemist21}
{u r a person 2, Almost Chara}
{Michael Scott}

untiered PoE
{ProFlavor, Kokichi, jjh927, Mewtaph, Taly}

will lynch anyone in this pool unless convinced otherwise.

[Shoshin the worst]

if you could give taly a quick ISO then ctrl+f "taly" in our iso I think you'll get the gist of it. I'm not fully ready to reveal what we've picked up on QUITE yet.

...ready now?

-V

I've talked about Taly so much
then I explained to him why he was an rvs scumread and he complained about it and told me he needs more time/freedom and exited the thread and I was like "OK but we're not townreading you" and he hasn't come back

[Shoshin the worst]

so much opportunity to get pocketed!!

._. im gonna have to reread that playerlist movement night action stuff arent i?

not feeling the

kokichi

IC claim but i slight townvibe it anyway

VOTE: Almost Chara

RVS is bullshit but square up w me, both heads now

~ Taly

Taly's RVS post is what originally scumpinged me.
I don't think he's really done anything outside his scumrange (not anything particularly towny). Taly do you disagree? If I'm grossly misreading you here, help me see where I'm wrong. A lot your defence of yourself & probing of other slots has kind of skated around the centre; the way you do as scum (e.g. PYPX/Y).

> the pocketed comment & the thing wrt rereading playerlist movement just feels forced and stiff. I think there's a hesitation in Taly's tonality through the thread, so far, which I can't not notice.
> the comment about not feeling Kokichi's IC claim but townvibing it is absolutely bizarre. I can see this coming from someone who played SCM1 and liked the laissez-faire comedic entry to the thread but I literally can't see any reason to be townpinged by Kokichi lolclaiming IC and then lurking it out. This doesn't feel like critical reading so much as an agenda/TMI'd read and I think it's the kind of slip-up scum do make while still in RVS.
> RVS bullshit thing is incredibly forced (fwiw voting AC in rvs doesn't seem beneficial to me but I feel like I'm the only person onsite who enjoys RVS for content)

Is it really just "His RVS post scumpinged me."
Like
Is that really why you were so evasive on taking a hard scumread there early?

-V

Because I wanted to see what he produced organically as much as possible.

[Shoshin the worst]

Chara, why jjh?

[Shoshin the worst]

So you lied about having a hard scumread there because you wanted Taly's posts to be more organic?

-V

No. We spoke at length about his rvs contributions and agreed they were >rand wolf. What else are we meant to scumread there?

[Shoshin the worst]

Don't you think Taly's posts would be even more unbiased if you hadn't claimed a scumread on the slot or been elusive about saying why you were scumreading it?

If you had just straightforwardly addressed what was scummy (I'm still not even sure what post 'scumpinged' you), that seems like the proper way of doing things.

It really seems like you just made up a reason to have what seemed like an informed read, and then used that to position re: a townslot you knew you could drag down.

-V

I mean maybe? We spoke about it a bit and decided we were comfortable having him uncomfortable by knowing he had an enemy but didn't think it was valuable to elaborate on it at the time. I actually think his contributions still haven't towntold at all.

Valid to question our methods but I don't think they're ~wrong~ just maybe you would've approached this differently? We don't hugely regret it

[Shoshin the worst]

So, if you scumread those posts, why didn't you just say so right away and push Taly over it?

-V

Because we had other stuff to do
I think it was super obvious we scumread those posts tho because short of a n0 guilty I'm not sure why we would scumread Taly? like if you're taking exception to this i have no idea what you expected us to say

[Shoshin the worst]

I 100% would have approached it differently.
If you're town here, being furtive is literally what drew my shot to you.
Why would you be anything besides straightforward and transparent in your methods when there's a MOD CONFIRMED vigilante in the setup?

-V

Straight up I didn't read the opening posts to see the thing about a mod confirmed vigilante
I still think our play is completely defensible and I wouldn't expect a MOD CONFIRMRD VIGILANTE to shoot us for that. like I still genuinely don't understand why you did.

[Shoshin the worst]

We were really clearly working an angle and building momentum - was it a vig because you didn't like out method?

[Shoshin the worst]

Brass straight up why are you voting us?

[Shoshin the worst]

@V given you've seen how forward both of us can be as scum why did you apply that scumtell to us in the first place?
From my point of view it looked incredibly reactionary and basically boiled down to "I don't like people beating around the bush THEREFORE BYE"
I get that after scm1 it's also probably annoying reading either of our heads but you just went thru an entire game with both of us. that reasoning is pretty lazy. sorry if I've been bordering on being rude with this whole ideal but I really really don't like being misvigged.

[Shoshin the worst]

I'm struggling with where as well. We have like 12 hours left.
If I was a vig I'd be vigging ProFlavor because I don't think I have the energy levels/charisma to push through that lynch. Taly would be great too but I don't think I'm getting the support. Mewtaph I'm a little colder on. Kokichi is obvscum but I'm getting yelled at for voting him. jjh is my least preferred thru sheer inactivity. it's a compromise I'll do but still a compromise.

[Shoshin the worst]

I think my issues with them are well documented. They're also pocketing you and fmpov it's reasonably transparent.
When they double down on reads they like... consistently make nearly no sense.

Particularly wrt flavor they're more focused on oozing charisma than actually looking at the thread logically
That's not a slot I trust at all, and it feels like they think I should which is pinging me harder.



Just a side note but by the metric above, you will scumread us going into this game 100% of the time. Idrc if you wake up tomorrow and vig us or if we eat a night kill atm because I feel ok about the solve we're looking at. but I guess this is something to muse about post-game?

pedit: VOTE: Kokichi

[Shoshin the worst]

I realise there's a nil chance of getting a Taly lynch across the line today.
Otherwise our reads are fairly similar. Why do you think Kokichi is a mislynch tho?

and which one's Eraserhead?

[Shoshin the worst]

Brass straight up why are you voting us?

The VC has legitimately two viable lynches at this point, you or jjh. You and Varsoon have been bickering the entirety of day 1 and that's a distraction.

I don't have a particularly strong read either way on jjh right now.

Therefore, your lynch is, in my view, a better option, regardless of how well the worst and I get along.

-Bharold

Join us on Kokichi?

[Shoshin the worst]

Sell me on jjh>koki? (bussing atm)

@Vars I think I'm fairly outside my scumrange IDK about head#1

[Shoshin the worst]

because a lynch is better than a no lynch. No promises that it is not yours if this does not pan out to be viable.

^ valid & agreed

[Shoshin the worst]

Kokichi's entire iso is made up reads which are consistently reactive to people who are pushing him - he clearly has no interest in actually achieving a lynch on either us or AC, he's just coasting. he's basically playing not_mafia's scum meta lmao maybe that's why I'm scumreading him

All the same, his reads are f a k e and I can't see anything in his ISO I'm inclined to believe. suits the ultimate liar well I guess. still gonna lynch him

[Shoshin the worst]

I do buy that Nico was legit upset over having been put into a game that they /in to replace for

As for the other stuff, that's all good rationale for why Nico slot should be shot if JJH can't clear.

-V

QFT. I haven't seen anyone try to get into Nico's head quite that well before.
but yeah jjh should be able to spew town if he's town

[Shoshin the worst]

I'll just shoot that slot tomorrow, then.

People are trying to swing a deadline lynch onto Kokichi while there's no outstanding votes on the wagon.
It's not going to go through.
Compromise onto STW or a wagon that's already got votes, please.
Otherwise, we get no lynch.

-V

Just gonna quote this so it's not pagebottomed but definitely swing onto Kokichi

If Taly rep's out we'll get an extension

[Shoshin the worst]

yeah I trust jjh to chase a townslot if he can at all and obviously he is gonna have to explain what that tell he didn't see was d2, if it's not convincing and he doesn't towntell he's an easy redflip

[Shoshin the worst]

Do we even have the 8 active players to drive a lynch there, STW?
That's what I'm saying.

-V

If we can get the support of the people active. Yeah.

Pintu's not gonna vote us. BH will as a deadline lynch. I think Nancy might vote with us considering Nico is better sorted tomorrow.

Will you join us if it comes to Kokichi or no lynch?

[Shoshin the worst]

Me too but I genuinely don't think Eraserhead is a lynch we can pull here.

[Shoshin the worst]

If this was like Echo Bay Grits SEO I'd vig Eraserhead right now fyi

[Shoshin the worst]

@Nancy, I agree with you on Nico. But she's also not an easy sort and comparing meta directly from two games can give pretty dubious results. She doesn't always talk about being flip based etc. as town; jjh is an easier read than Nico and fmpov if he doesn't town it up d2 he will be our lynch.

[Shoshin the worst]

I’ve only played with Taly a couple of times - he’s usually demands everyone interacts with him but he seems less demanding in this game

Not sure if that is AI

Think about what he's actually done this game vs. that

tell me you don't have an AI read on it I dare you

[Shoshin the worst]

Was expecting more from JJ - don’t think I’ve ever played with him so idk what it means

on a personal basis I can confirm jjh has been busier than normal irl lately

[Shoshin the worst]

yeah Taly's flitting this game hasn't been as towny as it normally is

Chara I'd be keen to see your thoughts too--you townread him in supp2017 before TW realised he had to follow suit.

[Shoshin the worst]

@PF is that fence comfortable?

[Shoshin the worst]

pedit: would not lynch Michael, we can circle back to that discussion day 2.

+1 on this
I reevaluated both hydras just now and came to a net townread on Michael again
Auro I'm reasonably good at soulreading I think (except I >rand come out at scum, slightly) and volxen I'm fairly hit and miss with but I feel good about the good feeling I feel towards them rn

[Shoshin the worst]

yeah Taly's flitting this game hasn't been as towny as it normally is

Chara I'd be keen to see your thoughts too--you townread him in supp2017 before TW realised he had to follow suit.

i can't seem to remember what alignment Taly was in supp right now. was i correct or incorrect, and what do you mean by ducky following suit?
~Chara

You were right on Taly being town.
Ducky was scum, and when you townread Taly he read over his ISO and realised it was correct play to agree with your townread.

[Shoshin the worst]

I guess it makes sense for you to check in with your hydra partner before bussing lmao

[Shoshin the worst]

You were right on Taly being town.
Ducky was scum, and when you townread Taly he read over his ISO and realised it was correct play to agree with your townread.

do you ever go back and read a game, and think 'damn, look how decisive i was in this towngame. what happened?'
i'm so afraid of being wrong now that it's hurting all of my games, and my reads.
i plan to roll up my sleeves and find a good read on Taly. tomorrow will give me more time for that, but at the risk of being murdered, i might just do it now.
~Chara

yes super super often
I actually miss the days when I was lolkilled n1 because I was so erratic and unpredictable as town

[Shoshin the worst]

if Michael Scott is scum the world is a very ugly place

[Shoshin the worst]

@urap2 notice anything uncomfortable about ProFlavor's reads?

[Shoshin the worst]

yes i do

you go first?

[Shoshin the worst]

@urap2 notice anything uncomfortable about ProFlavor's reads?

Climb down off that fence and say you scum read me
Ha ha

I did pretty candidly lmao
Get your own sly shut-down.

[Shoshin the worst]

Creature, you town?

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: STW
~A50

this was me. don't know where my head was at. (literally? :>)
~Chara

This is great.

[Shoshin the worst]

you sure? why are you ffs'ing that? lol

[Shoshin the worst]

so you wanted to roll scum

[Shoshin the worst]

I'll let you get your head into the game
need a hand with anything?

[Shoshin the worst]

No chance Creature is leaving my PoE until he's produced some town indicative content and both of our heads are happy with it - I also want to hear something from Chara before we go down this rabbit hole to be comfortable. Like I said we're not wagoning Taly/Creature today. That's the most I can give you.

Do you think the scumteam is genuinely just straight up those 3? I can...kinda not see a reason to think it's WRONG I just don't feel like we're close enough to a 100% solve when I don't trust either Kokichi or Creature's slot.

[Shoshin the worst]

No chance Creature is leaving my PoE until he's produced some town indicative content and both of our heads are happy with it - I also want to hear something from Chara before we go down this rabbit hole to be comfortable. Like I said we're not wagoning Taly/Creature today. That's the most I can give you.

Do you think the scumteam is genuinely just straight up those 3? I can...kinda not see a reason to think it's WRONG I just don't feel like we're close enough to a 100% solve when I don't trust either Kokichi or Creature's slot.

I hard townread Taly and Creature’s entrance just locks it in for me. Scum!Creature never adamantly defends himself like that. *lightly smacks TW for not seeing that*

....heroes wanted?
what are you seeing as outside Creature's scumrange from that entrance?

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: ProFlavor

[Shoshin the worst]

Big sigh
We can't let STW get away with this
If we do
They'll keep getting away with it
They'll just win again
Fuck all of you for letting that happen once
I'm not gonna let it happen again

I SHOT THEM
THEY DID NOT DIE

Come onnnnn
just lynch STW
Don't let them survive
Because I won't make it through the night
and it feels like I AM THE ONLY ONE fighting for their lynch
And I don't want to lose to those guys again
Ever

-V

Was this a poem?
Ice never seen conftown call for a polict lynch on powertown via poetry before.
What a time to be alive.

[Shoshin the worst]

Interesting turn around pint - why are we scum?

[Shoshin the worst]

VOTE: ProFlavor

why not Koki?
~Chara

Testing a wagon I feel better about to see if it can get the support.
I'll switch back to Kokichi if we need to.

[Shoshin the worst]

Can you show me what's towny about her posts rq?

[Shoshin the worst]

Yes Creature
What's on your mind?

[Shoshin the worst]

anyways

[Shoshin the worst]

just casually reiterating that Taly's slot is obvscum and should be lynched d2 if you dumbasses actually lynch us
Tia

(still love you all)

[Shoshin the worst]

mfw entire PoE is voting us

[Shoshin the worst]

Please remember to vca this later

[Shoshin the worst]

Guess creature hasn't yet haha

[Shoshin the worst]

Hi. No chance of catching up for now. What's going on?

[Shoshin the worst]

Don't unvote if we have less than 5 hours. Lynch Kokichi or ProFlavor or Creature.

[Shoshin the worst]

Varsoon's power driving a policy lynch because he can't read us and he's scared of us. Mewtaph's unvote is uhh relatableish

Otherwise this is a scum motivated wagon. Everyone town on it should feel bad tbh

[Shoshin the worst]

Nancy's pushed on her scumrange but hasn't quiteeee broken out of it (thus is a compliment)
Ari was obvtown

[Shoshin the worst]

I actually think our last reads list was pretty good. We're not claiming here. Glgl if you decide to hammer. I'll be aroundish as much as I can.

[Shoshin the worst]

Uhh not voting me has nothing to do with his town status. Actually him freezing his vote on Pintu is scum indicative.

He's not town here. How is he obvtown to you? I have the next couple of hours to talk you out of it

[Shoshin the worst]

Nancy's pushed on her scumrange but hasn't quiteeee broken out of it (thus is a compliment)
Ari was obvtown

What does that mean exactly? In what world do you think I’d ever do this as scum?

We have you at like 80% town and Ari at like 95% town
you're a townslot, just reminding everyone of our reasoning

[Shoshin the worst]

I don't know YGM but talk me thru the similarities and what strikes you as AI in them

[Shoshin the worst]

BTW if pintu's reasoning for voting us was good he's townlean
If not he's back south of null

[Shoshin the worst]

We're very obviously town. I thought the gaping hole where our charisma was in starcraft mafia 1 was proooobably gonna catch people's eyes but half of this list is either scum or scum-siding xD

[Shoshin the worst]

Varsoon is probably just town regardless of the vig claim. If his scumgame is positioning people as wolves and then repeatedly dehumanising them and kicking them in the guts after going off at people for dragging him to a failed Mylo in SC1 he's someone I'm very much not cool with rn

[Shoshin the worst]

Pintu/Nancy is t/t > s/t >>>> s/s, someone reality check what pintu's saying pls because it's a pretty uncanny scum pocket if it's real

[Shoshin the worst]

I'd rather us be lynched than no lynch so Varsoon is forced to pull his head out of his own arse so quickly he gets whiplash.

[Shoshin the worst]

Oops I made it obvious which head is posting again......

[Shoshin the worst]

Pintu/Nancy is t/t > s/t >>>> s/s, someone reality check what pintu's saying pls because it's a pretty uncanny scum pocket if it's real

Who would he be pocketing? Certainly not me? Yeah but probably town. Creature also said that and I think you’re wrong about Creature.

That's what I'm angling at - it'd be an impressive pocket.
The same way AlCha's L-1 on us would be an incredible setup if they were scum.

[Shoshin the worst]

Current mood: mystery box of silver
my reads actually feel very good rn

[Shoshin the worst]

....lol

[Shoshin the worst]

If we have a cop check ProFlavor pls bc like
yikes

[Shoshin the worst]

We both posted obviously
Since anyone who knows my sense of humour picked up on the whiplash comment it's the duck atm but we've been discussing our reads a fair bit and won"t be expressly signing off

[Shoshin the worst]

Vca + lack of counterwagon is kinda spewing us town here too. Wagon froze early (there was a lot of wolf action on it. Early probably) and has been crawling since as townies are getting annoyed at us or compromising. Unless you literally think out scumbuddy is creature pushing a jjh cw which we don't endorse at the last moment you probably realise this

(@all btw)

[Shoshin the worst]

Basically the entire ProFlavor wagon + Alchemist are exhibiting common sense lol. I can eat the lynch here and sleep easy but legit. Everyone else check yourselves.

Even jjh leaped off this wagon at the speed of light

[Shoshin the worst]

or ProFlavor pls

[Shoshin the worst]

Oh nice

[Shoshin the worst]

or ProFlavor pls

Yeah but Pint was here when you were at L-1 and didn’t unvote you, like he should have and Mew is blatantly scum here and yeah, probably Eraserhead too.

We could just no lynch, rather than maj a slot that almost certainly flipping town.

Did pint explain his reason for flipping on us?
would need to read back

[Shoshin the worst]

or ProFlavor pls

Yeah but Pint was here when you were at L-1 and didn’t unvote you, like he should have and Mew is blatantly scum here and yeah, probably Eraserhead too.

We could just no lynch, rather than maj a slot that almost certainly flipping town.

Did pint explain his reason for flipping on us?
would need to read back

Asociations with scum!Michael Scott + my townreads voting you.

D1 associatives are jank
Your townreads are only just forming

Why are you scumreading ***US***?

[Shoshin the worst]

Can you give me a summary of what you liked about ProFlavor's argument vs. us because it was a trainwreck

[Shoshin the worst]

I am because we're flipping with green and you're deathtunnelling with slim at best reasoning, at the expense of sorting the entire rest of the game.
Not even slightly sorry.

[Shoshin the worst]

We can bring this up post-game but unless this is your scumgame I don't think you have anything to worry about
I'm literally saying your push is more likely to be legit

[Shoshin the worst]

Sorry had to work. What's going on?

[Shoshin the worst]

We're town so it's either a fake guilty or something else blocked the kill.

I have no other response.

[Shoshin the worst]

Yes, Varsoon is claiming a hard guilty on STW.

I guess it's safe enough to believe atleast one of STW/Varsoon must be scum.

This isn't solving mindset tbh

Loyal vig works in 3v11; something else is more likely to have blocked the kill or it's just an ungated vig and he's faking the guilty to save his favourite scum hydra.

[Shoshin the worst]

Varsoon, i want to be clear that the only reason i expressed doubt in your claim was because the thought of you willingly holding back a guilty as your tore your hair out over getting the entire town to listen to you on STW was more fantastical to me than you inventing the addition to the role.
but i believe you now.
~Chara

He also did that after outing himself as a vigilante on d1. lol.

The loyal thing is >>>rand fake

[Shoshin the worst]

Jjh spew town tomorrow if you're town please >:
As much town-spew as your demonic ducky mouth can do

[Shoshin the worst]

Did Varsoon hint vigilante before shooting?

No but he shot like 4 seconds into the game

[Shoshin the worst]

Varsoon, i want to be clear that the only reason i expressed doubt in your claim was because the thought of you willingly holding back a guilty as your tore your hair out over getting the entire town to listen to you on STW was more fantastical to me than you inventing the addition to the role.
but i believe you now.
~Chara

He also did that after outing himself as a vigilante on d1. lol.

The loyal thing is >>>rand fake

If you flip green than Varsoon is scum.

More likely he's town fakeclaiming because he needs to compensate lol.

[Shoshin the worst]

Oh yeah we're very hammered

Gonna go get those sweet sweet spoilers from Krazy

Sheep us tomorrow, gl town

[Shoshin the worst]

oh my bad
valid

[Shoshin the worst]

for the memes
VOTE: STW

[Shoshin the worst]

wonder if we can get every slot in the game involved in a mislynch?

[Shoshin the worst]

lynch Chara tomorrow. they were soft defending STW with the no lynch talk

....loooool