Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

ProFlavor
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Post Post #1400  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:01 pm

In post 1396, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?


You can think it, but I have plenty of reasons that prove that you are the wrong town.

Explain it to me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

~Leaf

Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #1401  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:01 pm

In post 1394, Almost Chara wrote:it's a foolish one if so (not that i'm discounting your interpretation).
what's pretty bizarre to me is the belief that Kokichi's alignment has anything to do with mine here, as though his bad meta read on me has credence provided he's town.

but Leaf, do you think STW decides to have their cake and eat it too, by which i mean continuing to have us as strong town while also trying to lynch someone i don't want to lynch, and leave us open as a target on later days?

and thanks for the answer, Nancy.
~Chara


Yeah well, without some ubercompelling metacase, I don’t see that happening. :lol:

YW. :)
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Post Post #1402  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:02 pm

Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf

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Post Post #1403  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:03 pm

In post 1394, Almost Chara wrote:it's a foolish one if so (not that i'm discounting your interpretation).
what's pretty bizarre to me is the belief that Kokichi's alignment has anything to do with mine here, as though his bad meta read on me has credence provided he's town.

but Leaf, do you think STW decides to have their cake and eat it too, by which i mean continuing to have us as strong town while also trying to lynch someone i don't want to lynch, and leave us open as a target on later days?

and thanks for the answer, Nancy.
~Chara


I don’t think they were actively going for that mislynch path, it just happens to setup nicely for the future, which is a thing scum subconciously look out for while playing the political game.

Because they can always change the read otherwise.

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Post Post #1404  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:07 pm

In post 1400, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1396, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?


You can think it, but I have plenty of reasons that prove that you are the wrong town.

Explain it to me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

~Leaf


Explain to me how his Alchemist21=scum theory make a bit of sense. He is clearly obvtown and I’d think this even if he weren’t playing identical to how he was playing in OK 2 but it was the PL thing in addition to his weird Gamma question that makes me think, Mew is a decent wagon here. All jjh did was unvote them, which I read as NAI.

If you’re one of 3 possibile viable wagons - one extremely likely one, why not pocket tw? Maybe it’s not a pocket but I wouldn’t tr it just for that.
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #1405  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:08 pm

In post 1397, Almost Chara wrote:that's Alchemist, his avatar is Roy Mustang from Fullmetal Alchemist.
~Chara


Oh thanks.
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u r a person 2
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Post Post #1406  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:09 pm

In post 1400, ProFlavor wrote:You can think it, but I have plenty of reasons that prove that you are the wrong town.

Explain it to me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

I was really just trying to ascertain if keeping a mewtaph vote rn would require me to 1v1 you

because I'm getting a strong feeling that I don't want to do that.

Question, though

When you roll scum, how often does a scum get lynched d1? more or equal to never?
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #1407  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:09 pm

In post 1400, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1396, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?


You can think it, but[b] I have plenty of reasons that prove that you are the wrong town[/b{.

Explain it to me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

~Leaf



Enlighten us please, Eraserhead/Leaf.
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #1408  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:13 pm

In post 1402, ProFlavor wrote:Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf


Once again I repeat: Please explain it to me, like I’m 5. Ktankx.
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ProFlavor
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Post Post #1409  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:14 pm

In post 1406, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1400, ProFlavor wrote:You can think it, but I have plenty of reasons that prove that you are the wrong town.

Explain it to me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.

I was really just trying to ascertain if keeping a mewtaph vote rn would require me to 1v1 you

because I'm getting a strong feeling that I don't want to do that.

Question, though

When you roll scum, how often does a scum get lynched d1? more or equal to never?



Good question.

Not too often, but it’s happened. I generally am not so easily paired up with my scum partners, though. I’m pretty good at making it so if I ever flip scum, people can’t figure out who my partners are when I’m scum.

I just really don’t feel like Mewtaph has really done anything that’s overly scummy, I feel I’ve given a plenty solid reasoning for why he is most likely town, so any votes on Mewtaph right now I would feel are being done politically.

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Post Post #1410  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:16 pm

In post 1408, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1402, ProFlavor wrote:Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf


Once again I repeat: Please explain it to me, like I’m 5. Ktankx.


I have.

Nothing scummy really from Mewtaph, you and Mustang have a tendency to tunnel onto townies, then the near lynch.

If you’re town, then you should feel scum followed you onto the wagon, tbh.

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Post Post #1411  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:17 pm

Also Eraserhead/Leaf, please explain to me in what world advocating a policy lynch on our slot is not even remotely scummy. And what about Mew’s weirdass Gamma question?

What possible town motivation is there in Mew asking Gamma if he should townread her?


I’m waiting. :popcorn:
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Alchemist21
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Post Post #1412  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:17 pm

In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:The fact that Varsoon, Mewtaph, and I are the three on Shoshin right now shows me that this is more than likely a scum slot.

Varsoon is hard town here. I’ve recently gotten to witness directly both townVarsoon and scumVarsoon, and really I’ve known Varsoon for like 4 and a half years now, so I’m pretty happy with my read there.

Mewtaph is town for the wagon composition. Mustang and Nancy pushing onto a townie the way they did makes total sense, and then people, and scumShoshin, decide to jump on to Mewtaph.

This also semi incriminates Jjh slot, but I’ll let them catchup first.

I realize my slot will probably be tried to use as a counterwagon option after pushing Shoshone like this, so unless you wanna try to 1v1 me and out explain the damn awful play it would have been to let Mewtaph live in this situation as scum...well, go for it. I could have just kept not playing the game and allowing Profii to play in that situation. Mewtaph likely would have been killed.

So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Long story short, Only town are on the Shoshin wagon right now. Bet.


You keep bringing up me tunneling as a reason to Townread the person I’m scumreading. It’s not even a good reason to Townread someone in theory, and in practice it doesn’t hold up because I have tunneled on scum before.
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Post Post #1413  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:20 pm

Sure, and I’m taking that into consideration.

One thing doesn’t make someone town, the conjunction of multiple things do.

Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #1414  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:21 pm

In post 1410, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1408, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1402, ProFlavor wrote:Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf


Once again I repeat: Please explain it to me, like I’m 5. Ktankx.


I have.

Nothing scummy really from Mewtaph, you and Mustang have a tendency to tunnel onto townies, then the near lynch.

If you’re town, then you should feel scum followed you onto the wagon, tbh.


Oh is this similar to Mew’s Gamma question? :lol:

Once again, please explain it to me, like I’m 5.
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Post Post #1415  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:23 pm

I use the “should I town read you?@ question or some variant of it,

Or I’ll ask Why should I? Genuinely.

So I actually find the question townie than scummy.

All these pushes I’m seeing are NAI at best, if not they make me feel like they are town.

This is the type of mislynch that scum push. I understand why the wagon was built upon them, I just strongly believe Mewtaph is town.

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Post Post #1416  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:23 pm

In post 1413, ProFlavor wrote:Sure, and I’m taking that into consideration.

One thing doesn’t make someone town, the conjunction of multiple things do.

In post 1414, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1410, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1408, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1402, ProFlavor wrote:Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.

~Leaf


Once again I repeat: Please explain it to me, like I’m 5. Ktankx.


I have.

Nothing scummy really from Mewtaph, you and Mustang have a tendency to tunnel onto townies, then the near lynch.

If you’re town, then you should feel scum followed you onto the wagon, tbh.


Oh is this similar to Mew’s Gamma question? :lol:

Once again, please explain it to me, like I’m 5.
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Post Post #1417  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:24 pm

Instead of me explaining my reads, would you mind explaining your reasoning to scum read them, and I’ll give my thoughts on it?

I feel that we can probably come to a consensus. I want to help you see why Mewtaoh is more than likely town here.

~Leaf

PEdit:
K, you gotta stop requoting. I don’t PEdit much, and you post during my other stuff. I was getting there.

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Post Post #1418  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:25 pm

In post 1409, ProFlavor wrote:I just really don’t feel like Mewtaph has really done anything that’s overly scummy, I feel I’ve given a plenty solid reasoning for why he is most likely town, so any votes on Mewtaph right now I would feel are being done politically.
"
I agree that he hasn't done anything dramatically scummy, but I'm also not convinced on stw scum, and I am the people who jumped onto mew's wagon, so the wagon analysis in defense of mew doesn't really sway me either.

so then, to my understanding, the town case on him is that his one well flushed out read, which contradicts my own read on alch, is too complex to come from scum!mew

and in a game where I've got enough town reads to fill a boat, that just ain't doin' it.

my head hurts, i'll come back to it in the morning.
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Post Post #1419  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:26 pm

If you’re town, why do you think scum wouldn’t follow onto the wagon you were pushing?

Let’s take Mewtaph’s alignment out of it.

Regardless of their alignment, it is more than likely that scum would follow you onto it. Mewtaph was very much near lynch. It was a high possibility.

Scum was on the wagon. :shrug: regardless of Mewtaoh’s Alignment.

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Post Post #1420  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:26 pm

In post 1415, ProFlavor wrote:I use the “should I town read you?@ question or some variant of it,

Or I’ll ask Why should I? Genuinely.

So I actually find the question townie than scummy.

All these pushes I’m seeing are NAI at best, if not they make me feel like they are town.

This is the type of mislynch that scum push. I understand why the wagon was built upon them, I just strongly believe Mewtaph is town.


You still aren’t explaining why you think Mew is a mislynch and sure, I’m not defacto ruling out possible scum bussing and if Mew was playing similarly here to how he was playing in SC1, I’d be fighting for people to jump off of his wagon but I’m so far not seeing it.
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Post Post #1421  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:28 pm

In post 1418, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1409, ProFlavor wrote:I just really don’t feel like Mewtaph has really done anything that’s overly scummy, I feel I’ve given a plenty solid reasoning for why he is most likely town, so any votes on Mewtaph right now I would feel are being done politically.
"
I agree that he hasn't done anything dramatically scummy, but I'm also not convinced on stw scum, and I am the people who jumped onto mew's wagon, so the wagon analysis in defense of mew doesn't really sway me either.

so then, to my understanding, the town case on him is that his one well flushed out read, which contradicts my own read on alch, is too complex to come from scum!mew

and in a game where I've got enough town reads to fill a boat, that just ain't doin' it.

my head hurts, i'll come back to it in the morning.


Only takes one scum. I don’t think you are the scum.

But I definitely feel the lack of resistance towards Mewtaph prior to me coming in implies Mewtaph town.

Good post by you. I’m liking you right now.

Honestly, that makes me feel more comfortable on STW, however.

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Post Post #1422  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:31 pm

What do you mean I’m not?

I feel I’m spouting it out pretty clearly.

He’s done nothing scummy, the 2 players who started it are known to tunnel, and there was no resistance before me.

That right there near locks him into town.

And this is BEFORE actually analyzing his play.

He’s been actively giving reads. He’s been asking questions. He’s been in the spot where he’s taking on multiple players at once. This is the epitome of a mislynch. He’s being extremely genuine, and showing thoughts of figuring out the game.

Mixed in with this and my town read of Varsoon, while seeing that U R A and Nancy are confused and trying to figure it out, I feel STW is near lock scum.

Honestly, probably with Mustang here.

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Post Post #1423  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:31 pm

In post 1417, ProFlavor wrote:Instead of me explaining my reads, would you mind explaining your reasoning to scum read them, and I’ll give my thoughts on it?

I feel that we can probably come to a consensus. I want to help you see why Mewtaoh is more than likely town here.

~Leaf

PEdit:
K, you gotta stop requoting. I don’t PEdit much, and you post during my other stuff. I was getting there.


A) He seems very different here, than in last game.

B) I don’t buy his read on Alchemist.

C) Weirdass Gamma question, made to look like he was actually asking something useful when he clearly wasn’t.

D) Advocating stupid PL, which is 9/10 a scum move when it isn’t based on anything which adversely impacts the gamestate.

E) Mew’s entire reaction to his wagon, isn’t townie. He reacted extremely different to it last game.
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Post Post #1424  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:31 pm

It’s a hydra of Profii and Myself, and we rolled town.

We’re not making it to end game. I’ll tell you that much.

~Leaf

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