Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!


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Post Post #1425 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:35 pm

Post by Mephistophanes 39 »

In post 1421, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1418, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1409, ProFlavor wrote:I just really don’t feel like Mewtaph has really done anything that’s overly scummy, I feel I’ve given a plenty solid reasoning for why he is most likely town, so any votes on Mewtaph right now I would feel are being done politically.
"
I agree that he hasn't done anything dramatically scummy, but I'm also not convinced on stw scum, and I am the people who jumped onto mew's wagon, so the wagon analysis in defense of mew doesn't really sway me either.

so then, to my understanding, the town case on him is that his one well flushed out read, which contradicts my own read on alch, is too complex to come from scum!mew

and in a game where I've got enough town reads to fill a boat, that just ain't doin' it.

my head hurts, i'll come back to it in the morning.
Only takes one scum. I don’t think you are the scum.

But I definitely feel the lack of resistance towards Mewtaph prior to me coming in implies Mewtaph town.

Good post by you. I’m liking you right now.

Honestly, that makes me feel more comfortable on STW, however.
Fun fact: I was in an MU game where scum godfather was close to being lynched, only when he had a substantial wagon on him, were there any even noticeable signs of resistance to it.
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Post Post #1426 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:35 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 1423, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1417, ProFlavor wrote:Instead of me explaining my reads, would you mind explaining your reasoning to scum read them, and I’ll give my thoughts on it?

I feel that we can probably come to a consensus. I want to help you see why Mewtaoh is more than likely town here.

~Leaf

PEdit:
K, you gotta stop requoting. I don’t PEdit much, and you post during my other stuff. I was getting there.
A) He seems very different here, than in last game.

B) I don’t buy his read on Alchemist.

C) Weirdass Gamma question, made to look like he was actually asking something useful when he clearly wasn’t.

D) Advocating stupid PL, which is 9/10 a scum move when it isn’t based on anything which adversely impacts the gamestate.

E) Mew’s entire reaction to his wagon, isn’t townie. He reacted extremely different to it last game.
A) He got rang up this game. I would expect him to act differently as town.
B) what read is that? I’m lean scum on Alchemist too, so if that’s it, all the more reason I like him. It’s even hard to explain, because Alxhemist hasn’t necessarily done anything, so I like that.
C) i explained why i think that’s likelier town than scum.
D) when do scum do this? I actually feel town are more likely to push a PL because it’s percieved as scummier.
E) i disagree. He’s going incredibly transparent. He’s giving reads. He’s trying to find scum, he’s just got a lot of pressure on him and no resistance to his wagon, so of course it’s going to be hard.

I think you rely on meta too much. I don’t feel meta should be used as a primary way, more of a complimentary tool. You keep meta reading like that, it’s going to get hard abused, I’ll tell you that much.

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Post Post #1427 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:36 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

YeH, but I’m the only resistance here.

And I know I’m town.
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Post Post #1428 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:36 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1423, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:A) He seems very different here, than in last game.

B) I don’t buy his read on Alchemist.

C) Weirdass Gamma question, made to look like he was actually asking something useful when he clearly wasn’t.

D) Advocating stupid PL, which is 9/10 a scum move when it isn’t based on anything which adversely impacts the gamestate.

E) Mew’s entire reaction to his wagon, isn’t townie. He reacted extremely different to it last game.
i think there are problems when it comes to directly comparing only two games and seeing a difference, and concluding it must mean there's a different alignment involved instead of some other factor.
it's the same problem that i think could have resulted in Kokichi's read on me.

did Mewtaph ever say why he wanted to PL you?
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Post Post #1429 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:36 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

I understand your reasonings for pushing him. I just think you’re tunneled onto him and missing other sides to the situation.

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Post Post #1430 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:37 pm

Post by Mephistophanes 39 »

In post 1419, ProFlavor wrote:
If
you’re town, why do you think scum wouldn’t follow onto the wagon you were pushing?

Let’s take Mewtaph’s alignment out of it.

Regardless of their alignment, it is more than likely that scum would follow you onto it. Mewtaph was very much near lynch. It was a high possibility.

Scum was on the wagon. :shrug: regardless of Mewtaoh’s Alignment.
Will you please stop saying that? Bono is way more town than you rn.
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Post Post #1431 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:37 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1427, ProFlavor wrote:YeH, but I’m the only resistance here.

And I know I’m town.
hold on, i'm not defending Mewtaph as much as you are, but i'm certainly here saying i don't want him lynched.
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Post Post #1432 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:38 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

I imagine Mewtaph felt like Nancy was tunneling and there was nothing he could do about that.

I feel this way about players like Rb and Rc, who both tunnel me relentlessly, always when I’m town. (They’re not successful with it, might I add.)

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Post Post #1433 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:39 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 1430, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1419, ProFlavor wrote:
If
you’re town, why do you think scum wouldn’t follow onto the wagon you were pushing?

Let’s take Mewtaph’s alignment out of it.

Regardless of their alignment, it is more than likely that scum would follow you onto it. Mewtaph was very much near lynch. It was a high possibility.

Scum was on the wagon. :shrug: regardless of Mewtaoh’s Alignment.
Will you please stop saying that? Bono is way more town than you rn.

I’m not worried about that at all, tbh.

Why would I stop saying “if” you’re town.

I don’t know your alignment. I’m leaning town, but you are by no means lock town. I don’t use meta to complete my read. It’s only part of it. I analyze play and wagon composition for the game at hand much more than meta.
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Post Post #1434 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:40 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

at the risk of sounding dumb, who is Bono?
~Chara

pedit: if nothing else Nancy's posting here has further convinced me she's town, which is good.
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Post Post #1435 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:40 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

Also, I’m not sure why you brought Bono up.

I could care less about that right now. Mewtaph is the towniest person in this game right now.

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Post Post #1436 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:41 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 1434, Almost Chara wrote:at the risk of sounding dumb, who is Bono?
~Chara

pedit: if nothing else Nancy's posting here has further convinced me she's town, which is good.
I agree. This is feeling like tunneled townNancy.

I don’t know what a Bono is either.

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Post Post #1437 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:43 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1435, ProFlavor wrote:I could care less about that right now. Mewtaph is the towniest person in this game right now.
a little hyperbolic. i completely understand scumreads in Mewtaph.

i'm also feeling rather apologetic to Varsoon for asking him to direct his attention to somewhere besides STW, and then now finding myself a little suspicious of them.
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Post Post #1438 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:46 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

Mewtaph(5)~ Alchemist21(62), Mephistophanes 39(228), u r a person 2(85), Shoshin the worst(202), ProFlavor

Profii voted there, I unvoted.

I believe there to be scum on this wagon.

I have reason to believe Meph and URA are town. This leaves Shoshin and Alchemist.

This is not my MAIN reasoning for being lean scum on these players. This is a complementary reason.

One scum action does not make a scum move. It is a combination of things, sometimes certain townie moves can create a reason for someone to be scum even.

@Almost - My reads on Garmr/Saudade we’re pretty similar to my reasoning right there, at a higher level, of course.

I could be wrong about my scum reads, sure, but I do not believe I am wrong about my Mewtaph read.


Varsoon and Profii, 2 players I understand pretty well when they scum read people both agree that STW is likely scum. That makes me feel comfortable with my read there as well.

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Post Post #1439 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:46 pm

Post by Mephistophanes 39 »

In post 1426, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1423, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1417, ProFlavor wrote:Instead of me explaining my reads, would you mind explaining your reasoning to scum read them, and I’ll give my thoughts on it?

I feel that we can probably come to a consensus. I want to help you see why Mewtaoh is more than likely town here.

~Leaf

PEdit:
K, you gotta stop requoting. I don’t PEdit much, and you post during my other stuff. I was getting there.
A) He seems very different here, than in last game.

B) I don’t buy his read on Alchemist.

C) Weirdass Gamma question, made to look like he was actually asking something useful when he clearly wasn’t.

D) Advocating stupid PL, which is 9/10 a scum move when it isn’t based on anything which adversely impacts the gamestate.

E) Mew’s entire reaction to his wagon, isn’t townie. He reacted extremely different to it last game.
A) He got rang up this game. I would expect him to act differently as town.
B) what read is that? I’m lean scum on Alchemist too, so if that’s it, all the more reason I like him. It’s even hard to explain, because Alxhemist hasn’t necessarily done anything, so I like that.
C) i explained why i think that’s likelier town than scum.
D) when do scum do this? I actually feel town are more likely to push a PL because it’s percieved as scummier.
E) i disagree. He’s going incredibly transparent. He’s giving reads. He’s trying to find scum, he’s just got a lot of pressure on him and no resistance to his wagon, so of course it’s going to be hard.

I think you rely on meta too much. I don’t feel meta should be used as a primary way, more of a complimentary tool. You keep meta reading like that, it’s going to get hard abused, I’ll tell you that much.

~Leaf
A) Nah

B) You were in OK 2. How is Alchemist, even remotely different here? If anything, he’s more obvious here than he was in that game.

C) So, I guess we agree to disagree then?

D) Sorry but that the biggest crock of shit, I’ve heard in a very long time. :lol:

E) How is Mew “transparent”? When he was being wagoned last game, he never once advocated for PL and he actually had more than plenty of just cause to do that there, then he does in THIS game.

I’m willing to risk it, since it’s usually more often than not accurate.

FACT: I caught scum!Marquis in BoR and scum!Bujaber in OK 2 and some others through meta.
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Post Post #1440 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:47 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 1437, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1435, ProFlavor wrote:I could care less about that right now. Mewtaph is the towniest person in this game right now.
a little hyperbolic. i completely understand scumreads in Mewtaph.

i'm also feeling rather apologetic to Varsoon for asking him to direct his attention to somewhere besides STW, and then now finding myself a little suspicious of them.
~Chara
I have said this as well.

I understand why people were pushing Mewtaph. That in itself is a reason why scum is likely on Mewtaph, especially with a tunneling Nancy on them.
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Post Post #1441 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:48 pm

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Sure, you can use meta for reads, but meet a player like me, and I’m going to abuse the hell out of it.
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Post Post #1442 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:49 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

@Nancy - I guarantee the next time you try to use meta to scum read me, I will not be scum. I’ll tell you that right now.

I just play every game at face value for the most part, so even my town games are pretty different from each other. And I like to try new things when I’m scum. New gambits.

I gambit as town also, if not more than when i’m scum. Just a heads up.

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Post Post #1443 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:50 pm

Post by Mephistophanes 39 »

In post 1432, ProFlavor wrote:I imagine Mewtaph felt like Nancy was tunneling and there was nothing he could do about that.

I feel this way about players like Rb and Rc, who both tunnel me relentlessly, always when I’m town. (They’re not successful with it, might I add.)

~Leaf
I honestly don’t believe I am. Mew has done jack to make me reconsidering moving my vote. Who would you suggest I vote for then? So far, everyone else reads townier to me than Mew and we don’t have any really useful info in the lurker slots, to make them viable but I’m of course open to that changing.
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Post Post #1444 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:50 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

I’ve seen more townies push a PL than scum.

Pushing a PL as scum is a dirty play, and most scum don’t do that. :shrug: I don’t think I’ve ever pushed a PL when I’m scum. I’ve done it multiple times as town, so...
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Post Post #1445 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:51 pm

Post by Mephistophanes 39 »

In post 1440, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1437, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1435, ProFlavor wrote:I could care less about that right now. Mewtaph is the towniest person in this game right now.
a little hyperbolic. i completely understand scumreads in Mewtaph.

i'm also feeling rather apologetic to Varsoon for asking him to direct his attention to somewhere besides STW, and then now finding myself a little suspicious of them.
~Chara
I have said this as well.

I understand why people were pushing Mewtaph. That in itself is a reason why scum is likely on Mewtaph, especially with a tunneling Nancy on them.

I wasn’t tunnelling and I never pushed his wagon but the PL crap, has pushed my sr of him into the stratosphere.
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Post Post #1446 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:51 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

I would say STW/Alchemist. Neither of them are townie whatsoever.

Scum was on the Mewtaph wagon. Regardless of Mew’s alignment.
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Post Post #1447 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:52 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1428, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1423, Mephistophanes 39 wrote: did Mewtaph ever say why he wanted to PL you?
~Chara
additionally, i also don't find calling PL with no reason to be that scummy, because town do it too.
and your strong reaction to it seems to have more to do with the fact it was on your slot. much like how you reacted to Gamma mentioning a scumread on you during the endgame of Excalibur.
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Post Post #1448 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:52 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 1445, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1440, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1437, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1435, ProFlavor wrote:I could care less about that right now. Mewtaph is the towniest person in this game right now.
a little hyperbolic. i completely understand scumreads in Mewtaph.

i'm also feeling rather apologetic to Varsoon for asking him to direct his attention to somewhere besides STW, and then now finding myself a little suspicious of them.
~Chara
I have said this as well.

I understand why people were pushing Mewtaph. That in itself is a reason why scum is likely on Mewtaph, especially with a tunneling Nancy on them.

I wasn’t tunnelling and I never pushed his wagon but the PL crap, has pushed my sr of him into the stratosphere.
And that’s why you can’t see him as town. He hit an emotional button for you when he wanted to PL thou, and you didn’t like that. Makes perfect sense why you are pushing him. However, he is also no longer on you, so...

~Leaf
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Post Post #1449 (ISO) » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:53 pm

Post by Mephistophanes 39 »

In post 1441, ProFlavor wrote:Sure, you can use meta for reads, but meet a player like me, and I’m going to abuse the hell out of it.
Fair, I never said it’s useful for everyone but some players, it certainly is and Mew is playing very differently and not in a townier way IMO.
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