Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!


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Post Post #1850 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:41 am

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 1840, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1838, ProFlavor wrote:I’ve only played with Taly a couple of times - he’s usually demands everyone interacts with him but he seems less demanding in this game

Not sure if that is AI
Think about what he's actually done this game vs. that

tell me you don't have an AI read on it I dare you
He caught me as scum in a game but couldn’t get me lynched and he just demanded I answer his questions CONSTANTLY


I ignored him for 2 reasons - I was scum and it was funny but also - he’s playing a game with me, he’s not my boss, the demands were irritating as feck

He’s done it ~a bit~ in this game but not as much but maybe that’s just because it’s hard to be so sure this early

Maybe it means he is being rational in the way he conducts himself which is towny? Maybe he doesn’t want the spot light by making mad demands so early which is scummy

Head says towny I guess
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Post Post #1851 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:42 am

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1845, Shoshin the worst wrote:yeah Taly's flitting this game hasn't been as towny as it normally is

Chara I'd be keen to see your thoughts too--you townread him in supp2017 before TW realised he had to follow suit.
i can't seem to remember what alignment Taly was in supp right now. was i correct or incorrect, and what do you mean by ducky following suit?
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Post Post #1852 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:44 am

Post by u r a person 2 »

In post 1846, Almost Chara wrote:i'm liking both pint's catchup and his timing (especially the timing) a lot.
i was thinking the same thing
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Post Post #1853 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:44 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1835, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 998, Alchemist21 wrote:Taly’s vote seemed more like a pressure vote to get a response from me. Mewtaph’s reason for keeping his was sketchy.
I don't agree. Taly's vote, followed by the "actively engaging" thingy is sketchy. I don't agree with Mewtaph's reasoning, but coming to the thread with his first read being on you as a scumread when everyone else was townreading you? I don't see the scum rationale from that. Your vote on him seemed OMGUSy to me.
Mewtaph had his vote on me since RVS and he only claimed it was serious after Taly started challenging the consensus Townread on me. Scum would want to try and stop the cohesion that was forming but the following posts from Taly seemed indicative that she wanted to sort me while Mewtaph seemed like he wanted to take advantage of whatever seed of paranoia was there. In short, the timing of Mewtaph’s push on me next to Taly’s looks like scum, and when he got called on it he floundered on it. So I see it as scum who tried to make a subtle push then panicked when they got caught.

I haven’t said anything about how his timing factored into my read yet because I wanted to see if anyone else might try to sew paranoia regarding my slot. ProFlavor did do that but also did it while hard defending Mewtaph. I think if Mewtaph flips scum PR then ProFlavor’s a good candidate for their buddy, but if Mewtaph isn’t a scum PR then I think it’s unlikely a s/s relationship.
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Post Post #1854 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:46 am

Post by Shoshin the worst »

In post 1851, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1845, Shoshin the worst wrote:yeah Taly's flitting this game hasn't been as towny as it normally is

Chara I'd be keen to see your thoughts too--you townread him in supp2017 before TW realised he had to follow suit.
i can't seem to remember what alignment Taly was in supp right now. was i correct or incorrect, and what do you mean by ducky following suit?
~Chara
You were right on Taly being town.
Ducky was scum, and when you townread Taly he read over his ISO and realised it was correct play to agree with your townread.
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Post Post #1855 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:47 am

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 1848, Shoshin the worst wrote:@PF is that fence comfortable?
I know

I was gonna do this then loads of pedits to read

Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) - would
Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) - nah
Varsoon nah
Almost Chara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) nah
Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) would
Kokichi Oma - nah
Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) nah
jjh927 nicorobin - reluctantly if we have to
Mewtaph - if FL wants to
alchemist21 - probably not
ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) - hallelujah
u r a person 2 - if FL wants to
pinturicchio nah
Taly nah


Would lynch
Nah - wouldn’t lynch
If FL wants to = if he is confident with his read, I’m not so he can trump me


Sometimes a game feels like it’s going towards a day 1 scum lynch - I feel like this game was doing that @ STW and now it’s not because everything is so unclear to me - this means a vocal player has probably muddied the waters enough which just circles me back round to wanting to lynch STW

This is all

~ woof

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Post Post #1856 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:48 am

Post by pinturicchio »

In post 1066, Taly wrote:i really want
Pint
to ISO me and reply to the posts ive mentioned them in.

i didnt like their
UP2
scum rationale and their recent posts dont have much content, and little interaction with
UP2
in comparison to that, and the lack of a vote change.
Again insisting on a reply he almost knows was not coming until later because of IRL things. *thinking emoji*

I didn't change my vote on URAP2 back then 'cause even if he townied it up he was still my biggest scumread. Scum can easily town themselves after being called out; scum can't react to three things: PoE (too early), a guilty (too early) or a quick lynch (too risky). At how the gamestate was and after I called URAP2 out, he had plenty of time to react and do things he knows people would townread him for. So in my position, I have to think, "is this guy really town, or is he doing townie things now that he has drawn attention". URAP2 plays pretty damn well under pressure, so him playing scummy with no votes and townie with some votes on his slot makes sense as scum. So I would have to get a better reason to unvote URAP2 rather than just a "oh he posted more townie things after that".
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Post Post #1857 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:48 am

Post by Shoshin the worst »

I guess it makes sense for you to check in with your hydra partner before bussing lmao
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Post Post #1858 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:51 am

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 1857, Shoshin the worst wrote:I guess it makes sense for you to check in with your hydra partner before bussing lmao
That makes no sense
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Post Post #1859 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:54 am

Post by Almost Chara »

In post 1854, Shoshin the worst wrote:You were right on Taly being town.
Ducky was scum, and when you townread Taly he read over his ISO and realised it was correct play to agree with your townread.
do you ever go back and read a game, and think 'damn, look how decisive i was in this towngame. what happened?'
i'm so afraid of being wrong now that it's hurting all of my games, and my reads.
i plan to roll up my sleeves and find a good read on Taly. tomorrow will give me more time for that, but at the risk of being murdered, i might just do it now.
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Post Post #1860 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:54 am

Post by Mewtaph »

Shredding my town read on Taly.
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Post Post #1861 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:58 am

Post by Michael Scott »

@Pinturicchio
, can you get back to me on the question that I asked you in post ?

- Date Mike (Volxen)
In post 1236, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 588, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 585, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I don't understand why you think there's no town motivation in our slot pushing/scumreading you. It's pretty simple. We scumread you.
The fact you can't engage with me about why we shouldn't scumread you or should townread you had me baffled.
I believe that there can be a town motivation for scumreading me. I didn't say town!you town!reads me 100%

We can post game why I'm not into reading myself in the thread. It basically boils down to the wifom/not wifom discussion you're in the middle of and my having no interest in having those types of discussions
The problem we're having here is that you kicked off this rabbit hole discussion by voting us because you believe town!tw should be townreading you, plus the hydra dynamic which for the umpteenth time should not be deemed alignment indicative.

I'm trying to parse how you came to the conclusion that it's scum indicative for us to be scumreading you and pushing you just because the worst and you have history. I still do not understand your rationale here.

If you think TW should >rand be townreading you, we definitely need a better metric against which to measure your towntells, because it means what we are doing at the moment is on the wrong track.

This conversation is pretty important. If you do need to back out of it for
holistic playstyle/meta reasons
we understand but also please try to see that from our perspective, that leaves you joining out wagon late into its formation for almost exactly no reason...
In post 591, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 577, Shoshin the worst wrote:I could give it a go with pintu but I'm not sure it'd get me anywhere.
I'm pocketed without the need of you doing anything <3

@Varsoon, I have a towntell on the duck, on the same line of your "stretch your minds" of Shoshin. I've seen the duck using the
"holistical reads"
as town before and can't recall him doing it as scum.

By the way @duck, why scumreading us? Felt like it came out of nowhere.

-Pin
TW actually used the phrase “holistic playstyle/meta reasons” here, not “holistical reads”. I looked into this, and TW using phrases like “holistic meta” or “holistic read” is definitely not a towntell for him. In fact, he used the phrase “holistic meta” in the first Starcraft game (as scum) four different times. I searched TW’s posts for the phrases “holistic meta”, “holistic read”, “holistic play”, and “holistic playstyle” as this is what I found:

TW has used the phrase “holistic meta” four times in the first Starcraft game as scum (link: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970):

Link to the first post where he used “holistic meta”: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10584202&hi ... #p10584202
In post 517, the worst wrote:
In post 278, Varsoon wrote:P-EDIT:
Everything above the pedit is cringe
Everything below the pedit is locktown-irl

Varsoon I think you're really caught up on like holistic meta stuff and I'm like... not all that interested in it.... do you think the reads have been bad? maliciously intended? which ones? why?
Link to the second post where he used “holistic meta”: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10595081&hi ... #p10595081
In post 1594, the worst wrote:But I'm also wary of the fact I'm fucking easily triggered by people using bullshit holistic meta tells so I might be seeing red
Link to the third post where he used “holistic meta”: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10595151&hi ... #p10595151
In post 1638, the worst wrote:since no one is seeing what I'm seeing:
Mewtaph has asked Xtoxm the same question a lot of us have already asked him (which townreads gave him pause)

I think he's already answered that question really well, and I think his answer was town indicative. Mewtaph has ignored his reads and later contribution and comments about playstyle anxiety leading him to freak out about the early townreads. Follow his reads and it's probably pretty clear that he had his own takes, but the Big Bad Townblock was too much for him to like.

Mewtaph thinks he's a mislynch / has not noticed that Xtoxm's initial freak-out about the townreadspam actually kinda checks out, so shades him for not responding and votes him over ellitell

I ask Mewtaph to back the ellitell up with an actual scumcase. He cites the very early part of Xtoxm's contributions. I ask him to go back to his later iso and show me which of Xtoxm's posts are making him still feel that way

Nancy randomly charge-tackles me to the ground and Mewtaph stands there watching us and acting all surprised that I asked him to back up this read.

Like idfk he hasn't warlocked Nancy, she did it of her own volition but I'm fucking done if I'm being shaded for asking someone who's done sweet fuck all to back up a horseshit holistic meta tell with an actual scumcase on a slot I'm townreading
Link to the fourth post where he used “holistic meta”: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77970&p=10615025&hi ... #p10615025
In post 2977, the worst wrote:
In post 2975, Xtoxm wrote:I have to be able to trust that townies won't make reckless antitown plays like that.
You for real? I think Perf is scum but his hammer is the most defensible part of his ISO. The hell else was he meant to do with like 6 hours remaining? NM was clearly a very viable lynch candidate and imo if he was going to claim at all he would have already done it.

I'm kinda flashing back to something someone said to me pretty recently but if scum always made reckless antitown moves and town never did mafia would be like.. obscenely easier than it is. do you have reasoning other than an holistic meta dislike of hammers on unclaimed slots?

TW used the phrases “holistic meta” and “holistic gamestate read” one time each in Newbie 1866 as town (link: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76047)

Link to the post where he used “holistic meta”: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76047&p=10178131&h ... #p10178131

Link to the post where he used “holistic gamestate read”: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76047&p=10201152&h ... #p10201152


TW used the phrase “holistic readthrough” one time In Newbie 1870 as town (link: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76282)

Link to the post where he used “holistic readthrough”: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76282&p=10264643&h ... #p10264643


TW used the phrase “holistic read” one time in Open 737 as town (link: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77146)

Link to the post where he used “holistic read”: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77146&p=10453007&h ... #p10453007

No results came up for “holistic play” or “holistic playstyle” when searching TW’s posts.

Granted, TW has used phrases like “holistic read” or something along those lines as town, but in this game the exact phrase he used in post was “holistic playstyle/meta reasons”, and he has used “holistic meta” four times as much as scum than he has as town. In any case, TW frequently uses the word “holistic” in general (there are 41 results for just the word “holistic” when searching TW’s posts), so at best him using the phrase “holistic playstyle/meta reasons” is NAI for him. So
@Pinturicchio
, why were you so quick to label this as a “towntell” for TW when it clearly isn’t?

And
@The Worst
, what are your thoughts on Pinturicchio incorrectly applying this as a “towntell” for your slot?

- Date Mike (Volxen)
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Post Post #1862 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:00 pm

Post by Shoshin the worst »

In post 1859, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1854, Shoshin the worst wrote:You were right on Taly being town.
Ducky was scum, and when you townread Taly he read over his ISO and realised it was correct play to agree with your townread.
do you ever go back and read a game, and think 'damn, look how decisive i was in this towngame. what happened?'
i'm so afraid of being wrong now that it's hurting all of my games, and my reads.
i plan to roll up my sleeves and find a good read on Taly. tomorrow will give me more time for that, but at the risk of being murdered, i might just do it now.
~Chara
yes super super often
I actually miss the days when I was lolkilled n1 because I was so erratic and unpredictable as town
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Post Post #1863 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:01 pm

Post by Shoshin the worst »

if Michael Scott is scum the world is a very ugly place
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Post Post #1864 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:02 pm

Post by u r a person 2 »

In post 1855, ProFlavor wrote:Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) - would
Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) - nah
Varsoon nah
Almost Chara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) nah
Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) would
Kokichi Oma - nah
Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) nah
jjh927 nicorobin - reluctantly if we have to
Mewtaph - if FL wants to

alchemist21 - probably not
ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) - hallelujah
u r a person 2 - if FL wants to

pinturicchio nah
Taly nah
I don't understand why you phrased it this way for my slot and mew's slot specifically. It's not hydra dissonance in the way that I normally understand it, where you two disagree. It's dissonance in the sense that it seems unaware of - or at least it fails to incorporate - FL's repeated pronouncements that mewtaph is town and that I am town.

Am I reading something into nothing? Was there a thought process you had that made it make sense?
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Post Post #1865 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:03 pm

Post by Shoshin the worst »

@urap2 notice anything uncomfortable about ProFlavor's reads?
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Post Post #1866 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:05 pm

Post by u r a person 2 »

yes i do
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Post Post #1867 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:05 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

In post 1113, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 889, pinturicchio wrote:URAP2 has townied it up a lot since my first pushing attempt, and I'm not as convinced as I was before; however, I still see some inconsistencies and I can't let go the things I pointed out before about him.
@taly i thought pintu had unvoted me, but i guess not.

remembering that what he pointed out was that i jumped off an early wagon on a town read of his, and noting the "has townied it up a lot" word choice, it's odd

it could be pintu scum, but scum!pintu seemed more in tune with the player base last game i played. i dont understand the strat he has here, and i think scum!pintu has a plan
I think it would be a little unfair to townread me because of being more in tune on my last game since I wasn't in tune until now because of IRL problems... I already feel bad for not playing the game when everything was going on since it's unfair to both town and the scumteam (for town 'cause I get in a position of an easy mislynch, and for the scumteam because things like this: getting a townread for not playing the game). So I'd rather get a townread fairly.
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Post Post #1868 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:07 pm

Post by Shoshin the worst »

In post 1866, u r a person 2 wrote:yes i do
you go first?
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Post Post #1869 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:07 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

In post 1116, Taly wrote:
Town, not listing the order of strength OR confidence here

Almost Chara
Mephisto
STW
Varsoon
T&L
URAP2
Alchemist

Sorting

Mew
Pint
Proflavor
Michael Scott
Nicorobin
Kokichi


Not behind a
Nico/Koki
lynch unless there's either a better meta argument, or until they post more so I can evaluate them enough to have a lynch decision on.
Here again: why not including me in the "not behind a x-lynch" if he thinks I have not that much sortable posts? Why not pushing Michael or Proflavor who were more active than me?
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Post Post #1870 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:08 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 1864, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1855, ProFlavor wrote:Shoshin the worst (the worst + Shoshin hydra) - would
Mephistophanes 39 (Nancy Drew 39 and Aristophanes hydra) - nah
Varsoon nah
Almost Chara (Almost50 + Chara Hydra) nah
Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra) would
Kokichi Oma - nah
Tibor and Lumia (brassherald and Gamma Emerald hydra) nah
jjh927 nicorobin - reluctantly if we have to
Mewtaph - if FL wants to

alchemist21 - probably not
ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra) - hallelujah
u r a person 2 - if FL wants to

pinturicchio nah
Taly nah
I don't understand why you phrased it this way for my slot and mew's slot specifically. It's not hydra dissonance in the way that I normally understand it, where you two disagree. It's dissonance in the sense that it seems unaware of - or at least it fails to incorporate - FL's repeated pronouncements that mewtaph is town and that I am town.

Am I reading something into nothing? Was there a thought process you had that made it make sense?
I scum read you early on but there was a lot of town reads heading your way which I don’t really understand so I just assume I m being slow

Therefore if FL has a strong scum read on you then he can vote because I’m not confident in any read bar STW tbh
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Post Post #1871 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:09 pm

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 1865, Shoshin the worst wrote:@urap2 notice anything uncomfortable about ProFlavor's reads?
Climb down off that fence and say you scum read me
Ha ha
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Post Post #1872 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:10 pm

Post by Almost Chara »

why are you townreading Kokichi, profii?
we have maybe 8 hours left. i'll be around until deadline but for now i'm catching my bus home.
~Chara

pedit: :o
it's a fair townread from me, pin. i just think your catchup and tone have been very on point.
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Post Post #1873 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:12 pm

Post by Shoshin the worst »

In post 1871, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1865, Shoshin the worst wrote:@urap2 notice anything uncomfortable about ProFlavor's reads?
Climb down off that fence and say you scum read me
Ha ha
I did pretty candidly lmao
Get your own sly shut-down. ;)
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Post Post #1874 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:13 pm

Post by u r a person 2 »

In post 1870, ProFlavor wrote: I scum read you early on but there was a lot of town reads heading your way which I don’t really understand so I just assume I m being slow

Therefore if FL has a strong scum read on you then he can vote because I’m not confident in any read bar STW tbh
I'm trying to understand what info you were trying to convey to the rest of the players. Do you think there is much chance of FL finding a scum read on mew or me in the next few hours?
103-11 0-2
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