Mini Normal 2054: Winter's Sacrifice [Game Over]

[Egix96]

Hi guys.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

You've been a townie against maf!me, then an SK against maf!me...
Now let's see if you're a mafia against town!me.

[Egix96]

The game looks too cute, so the messed up things must be like REALLY messed up, I'll give it a try.

talking about seeing some shit, 19 is a really shitty vote even for rvs

VOTE: roosterfroster

Explain.

Sure, vote with no context on someone who hasn't even posted yet are always ringing bells for me, call it a hunch or actual meta gaming, either way I don't like it

But Jaber had made two posts prior to that vote? Or am I misunderstanding?

VOTE: Gamma

Could have just as easily been on Junk. STFU.

^^^ my thoughts exactly

VOTE: gamma

Voting someone just for roleplaying? SMH.

[Egix96]

my bad, I think I skipped those, still don't like votes without a reason, even minimal

Why should you be put off by someone naked-voting in RVS? I can't really say I agree with that attitude, it seems a bit scummy to me actually.

my bad, I think I skipped those, still don't like votes without a reason, even minimal

I had like 1 minute in the morning before I had to go (I was late anyway of course) so thought I should at least make a vote, but had no time to write anything else.

I feel like a spectator already

I actually don't like this. And I mean his RVS vote is just as lacking in context, no?

I had this feeling that it was similar to something someone said in my previous game, when they were scum. And to me it felt like this was scum trying to active lurk.

Except I just checked and I wrongly scumread that slot (they were actually town, deep) and we almost lynched them. So I think maybe I have a bias towards that kind of post.

Now that you've brought that BuJaber post to my attention, I don't like it either, but not quite for the same reason: it could be interpreted as TMI that scum!Jaber is "spectating" as the townies banter with each other, but I dunno, that could be too much of a stretch.

UNVOTE: Gamma

VOTE: Junko

[Egix96]

I felt like a spectator because the only real dialogue in the game was the roleplay between gamma and junko. And I have no idea what they're talking about except guessing that it's related to some anime, as confirmed by Gamma later. I didn't know how to join their conversation and made that joke. Obviously it wasn't funny.

Hm, that makes a bit more sense. I feel like I was born too soon to be a fan of Danganronpa...

Haschels tryharding reads town

The naive side of me wants to agree with this, but there's nothing telling me that someone who joined the site that long ago couldn't do that as scum.
I presume you have prior experience with HC?

[Egix96]

The game looks too cute, so the messed up things must be like REALLY messed up, I'll give it a try.

talking about seeing some shit, 19 is a really shitty vote even for rvs

VOTE: roosterfroster

Explain.

Sure, vote with no context on someone who hasn't even posted yet are always ringing bells for me, call it a hunch or actual meta gaming, either way I don't like it

But BuJaber has posted...

You popped in just to say that, after I had already questioned it and been answered? Why?

Why should you be put off by someone naked-voting in RVS? I can't really say I agree with that attitude, it seems a bit scummy to me actually.

Why would this attitude be scummy?

I don't like that she seems to feel the need to FoS someone for not giving a reason for their vote, at a stage of the game where virtually all reasons for votes are just made up (or at least not pertinent to the game) anyway.

[Egix96]

Why? You have too many townreads so soon into the game.

I'll explain later in this post but why is two townreads (the only ones I've mentioned, I believe) "too many?" Reads can change. Also, getting strong townreads early is one of the best ways to pin down mafia by process of elimination. This is a weak thing to criticize me for. You should criticize me for the actual reasoning behind my reads, like flubbernugget did, as that gets discussion going, not "having reads." Do townreads make you nervous?

Gamma is null at best and slightly scummy for not following the game closely enough.
It's not the subject of the vote that I take issue with. It's that it's naked after Dann said he thinks scum are more inclined to post reasons with their votes than not.

Do you have any other reads, BuJaber? Why is Gamma null-scum for not following the game closely? Does town always follow the game 100%?

Also, I'm not about to townread everyone who naked votes. Naked voting is NAI more often than not and not the reason I townread rosterfoster in the first place.

You popped in just to say that, after I had already questioned it and been answered? Why?

This is a rather empty question, which represents my main issue with this slot in general. Lots of questions that don't really do anything but try and look productive. People have already commented on this, Gamma is bound to realize and respond. What answer are you searching for other than "Oops I didn't read carefully?" There's also been more interesting things happening in this game than Gamma missing posts, why not comment on that or people's reads?

I don't like that she seems to feel the need to FoS someone for not giving a reason for their vote, at a stage of the game where virtually all reasons for votes are just made up (or at least not pertinent to the game) anyway.

She didn't FoS him, she voted him. If she thinks that's a noob scum tell, why wouldn't she vote him at that stage of the game? Also, note that she tried (and succeeded as far as I can tell) to break the game out of RVS, and was the very first one to do this not a page in. Does scum do that? I don't think so, particularly when she had the opportunity to continue with her roleplaying fluff with Gamma.

I'd rather have someone read too much into things and receive additional explanations than dismiss things as NAI by default. Excluding things like trying to analyze the mod or replacements or real life events etc.

Which is it? You say I have too many townreads too early on and then you say you'd rather someone read too much into things than dismiss things as NAI.

UNVOTE: Egix
VOTE: BuJaber

- Thanks, now you've made it trivial for Gamma to answer that question. There's no point in me saying what sort of answer I'm looking for before Gamma has had a chance to answer.
- Because there was nothing else that I felt was worth commenting on? Not sure how else to answer that really.

I'm gonna have to take a quick look back to see if what you're saying about Junko is correct.

[Egix96]

The game looks too cute, so the messed up things must be like REALLY messed up, I'll give it a try.

talking about seeing some shit, 19 is a really shitty vote even for rvs

VOTE: roosterfroster

Yep, seems like that's what she did.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Gamma

[Egix96]

The game looks too cute, so the messed up things must be like REALLY messed up, I'll give it a try.

talking about seeing some shit, 19 is a really shitty vote even for rvs

VOTE: roosterfroster

Yep, seems like that's what she did.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Gamma

Seems like what is what who did?

a) JC didn't just suspect RF, she voted him (lolme)
b) She got the game out of RVS

[Egix96]

I can see Egix and Junko as town. Dann is giving me both feelings at once. As for the Gamma thing, I don't think I understand what's going on.

Basically we think that Gamma isn't paying enough attention to what's going on in the game, and we think that's scummy.

[Egix96]

im here..not finding much to comment on atm..

Haschels tryharding reads town

i will agree for now..

It's too elaborate to fake

I mean it's not that hard. I have only played one game.

I'm not liking this hardcore defence of me. Feels a bit like trying way too hard to find townieness from what I said. As if he

knows

I'm town.

VOTE: Dannflor

i agree it seems like dann is *trying* to pocket, but his later posts seems fine..

I always believed that naked votes during RVS are Status quo for noob mafia

I naked vote in RVS frequently as either alignment. It's no big deal.

for me, naked votes are NAI this early too..

Gamma is null at best and slightly scummy for not following the game closely enough.
It's not the subject of the vote that I take issue with. It's that it's naked after Dann said he thinks scum are more inclined to post reasons with their votes than not.

@gamma ^
what do you think?

@sasha - strongly agree on dann read

This is disappointing... I know that town!xwing can do better than this.

[Egix96]

This is disappointing... I know that town!xwing can do better than this.

So vote it.

Aye aye!

UNVOTE:

VOTE: xwing

Gamma's not completely off the hook yet though.

[Egix96]

Gamma's not completely off the hook yet though.

Not off the hook for what

Not following the game closely?

not a fan of this justification for moving your vote but I don't think the Gamma wagon is good to begin with

Pretty much. I still don't think Gamma is town.

[Egix96]

I still don't think Gamma is town.

Can you elaborate on this? Other people voting her could weigh in on this too. I don't see anything Gamma has done (or hasn't done) as scum indicative. I could

maybe

see pressure voting her to get her to pay attention to the game, but to say you don't think she's town at this point makes me think you're seeing something I'm not.

Nothing Gamma has said makes me think they could be town. That's really all there is to it.

[Egix96]

Gamma's not completely off the hook yet though.

Not off the hook for what

Not following the game closely?

not a fan of this justification for moving your vote but I don't think the Gamma wagon is good to begin with

Gamma's not completely off the hook yet though.

Not off the hook for what

Not following the game closely?

not a fan of this justification for moving your vote but I don't think the Gamma wagon is good to begin with

Pretty much. I still don't think Gamma is town.

Why does not following the game make me scum?

Because I'm thinking that town!you would have paid more attention.

Are you busy with RL stuff/overgamed/etc? That could help to explain things.

[Egix96]

Combo of overgamed and other things holding more of my interest. I’ve been helping my friend who’s just starting a game I’ve been playing for a few months now.

Right, noted.

[Egix96]

Egix what is different about xwing in this game compared to last game (Schadd's)?

Let's compare.

From this game:

im here..not finding much to comment on atm..

Haschels tryharding reads town

i will agree for now..

It's too elaborate to fake

I mean it's not that hard. I have only played one game.

I'm not liking this hardcore defence of me. Feels a bit like trying way too hard to find townieness from what I said. As if he

knows

I'm town.

VOTE: Dannflor

i agree it seems like dann is *trying* to pocket, but his later posts seems fine..

I always believed that naked votes during RVS are Status quo for noob mafia

I naked vote in RVS frequently as either alignment. It's no big deal.

for me, naked votes are NAI this early too..

Gamma is null at best and slightly scummy for not following the game closely enough.
It's not the subject of the vote that I take issue with. It's that it's naked after Dann said he thinks scum are more inclined to post reasons with their votes than not.

@gamma ^
what do you think?

And from Mini 2048:

Hello I have arrived.

VOTE: Vote: xwing

Normal day 1 probing.

why do you need to insert the last line (bolded for emphasis)?

I am interested if the following players are interested in pushing the Trivium wagon through to a lynch:


2.Nikk
5.Wagonomics
6.Egix96
9.Robert2424

i dont get this question..who would push through to lynch someone on day 1 page 2/3?

VOTE: trivium

VOTE: trivium

This puts him at L-2. Those are two blind votes on a bandwagon that has no substance.

VOTE: xwing because that was the L-2, but still

FoS

ing Doughboy.

I can agree with this.

VOTE: xwing

disliking egix vote here, reasons below..

VOTE: trivium

VOTE: trivium

This puts him at L-2. Those are two blind votes on a bandwagon that has no substance.

VOTE: xwing because that was the L-2, but still

FoS

ing Doughboy.

what if it's L-2? why does it concern you? does it mean you find the other votes are not blind?
also, why FoS doughboy (henceforth shortened as DB) among all the other voters?

My point is that you two just posted naked votes and no other game content, which
1) takes an oppurtunity to jump on a wagon that seems like it's going to lynch, clearly to try and appear town, and
2) doesn't post any game advancing content for us to try to read them by.
Previous voters did
a)not naked vote, or
b)were on a wagon that just started developing.

do you seriously think someone is going to get lynched on page 2 or 3?
putting trivium in L-2 is giving us game advancing content..do you agree or disagree?
if i put a jokey reason during my RVS vote, would my L-2 vote still have pinged you?
are you scum?
VOTE: goldenparadox

[snip]

Ehh. Just because a wagon forms on someone very quickly, doesn't necessarily mean the person being wagoned is town.

Example I can cite: the beginning of Newbie 1893.

i like the bolded above, and taking note..i did like trivium's reaction to his wagon though..
conversely disliking goldenparadox and nikk slots on their reactions to it..
feeling dubious on egix slot for initially agreeing with golden and voting my slot, then backtracking..

Notice how in the other game, xwing was thinking more critically and not just agreeing with stuff, and furthermore it was based on a smaller (but still comparable) number of previous posts. Here he seems to be lacking that element of original thought, and that's what I'm disappointed by.

[Egix96]

Okay I thought angleshooting was something different? I thought it was something like taking mod action to indicate something about player’s alignments.

Yeah, I think flubber might be misusing that term. I consider angleshooting to mean stuff like people reading others based on out-of-game info, or people trying to clear themselves using stuff that's not within the scope of the game (e.g. mid-game avatar change).

@X

I liked your most recent posts. Less fence sitting, stronger stances.

i find this a bit contradictory..

when you initially voted for me, you said you didnt care (your vote placed me to L-1

)..but this statement means you do care..

That didn't happen, that is what I didn't want to happen.

I see you more towny now, your previous game gives me quite the same vibe for now.

UNVOTE: Xwing

VOTE: Sashaddin

ohhhhhh ok

Really don’t like the “for now” out

And I also feel like out of all the people to reference Schadds game you fleshed it out the least. Could be because you were last to back off, but then that leads to asking why you were a holdout.

Based on the timing of those first two posts (5 minutes apart) they look like a mindmeld to me. Not sure why Slaxx is being so suspicious of Sasha here despite his provided reasoning.

Egix: While in our previous game he was mostly absent, in this game he is quite on the offensive. First on gamma then on xwing. I have a thought that he might want to make a lot of distance between Gamma and him. His play towards xwing is not quite the same I think. A complicated slot to read right now, I'm not so sure he's town anymore. Could be, but then easily could not too.

The reason why I'm making more of an effort to be active in this game is because people generally didn't like how passive I was being in 2048.
There's also the fact that, unlike that game, we haven't yet found an "obvious" scum for me to just leave my vote on. This game's D1 is (so far at least) much more dynamic in comparison, in terms of how everyone's suspicions are evolving.

Xwing’s posts still feel scummy to me though

I'd be interested if you could elaborate on this, once you're back of course.

[Egix96]

ebwop: post 268 @tchill
@sasha: noted, though i feel it's because egix has just recently played with me so he has some expectation on my slot..whereas im not sure if he has played with gamma yet..

I have played with Gamma before.

- Open 740, I was scum and Gamma was town.
- Open 742, I was scum (specifically Mafia) and Gamma was a Serial Killer.

There's also EIACR2 if you wanna count that, but I personally wouldn't cos that wasn't a real mafia game.

[Egix96]

Eurgh, xwing wagon doesn't look so good any more.
Based on recent happenings in the thread, I'm willing to go back to Gamma.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Gamma

L-2

Not liking Tchill either tbh.

[Egix96]

Not liking Tchill either tbh.

Sorry, in case this wasn't clear: This is a FoS on Tchill. I dislike his play, not the wagon on him.

[Egix96]

Townies: Percy HC
Leaning Town: xwing Egix Slaxx Flubber

Notables suspects:
Bubujaber for jumping off my wagon when it was dissolving and joining Gamma's
JumkoChan for lurking

I don't find your reasoning for your scumleans particularly compelling tbh. Your reason for suspecting BuJ only seems to make sense from your own PoV, and Dann has already pointed out what's wrong with suspecting Junko for lurking. I'm getting the impression that you have everyone else as at least null, and you're just making up reasoning for the two people that are left over.

Why is Haschel a strong townread for you?

[Egix96]

Why is Haschel a strong townread for you?

(a)

I reallly liked the posts 239 to 242. really objective and to the point.

(b)

I also have a hard time imagining 280 coming from scum, especially points 3 and 4.

Agree on a), disagree on b).

[Egix96]

Less than 72 hours left. I think now would be a good time to try and get things moving again.

VOTE: Tchill

THIS IS L-1, DO NOT HAMMER WITHOUT A CLAIM.

[Egix96]

Hello I'm awake.

VOTE: BuJaber

Let's not lynch Sasha please, I think he's just awkward town.

[Egix96]

^ That's L-2 btw

[Egix96]

Right now I'm torn between putting BJ at L-1 or follow from day 1 and OMGUS Junko. 418 was just rude.

Cry baby

L-1

VOTE: Bluffager

I still Believe this flips green

, but mow downs the list of suspects

Then why vote him???

Let's get some intent on Blu. Assuming this goes through, I'm targeting sash tonight.

??? Eh What are you again?
UNVOTE:

This is blatant rolefishing...

Junko, I really don't like how scummy you're being here.

[Egix96]

In a 13 player game, is 2 or 3 scum standard?

Weird question to ask... why did you feel the need to say this?

[Egix96]

@Egix you know what a scum slip is? I can see that post meant for a faction chat and not this thread, rookie mistake but a possibility

I highly doubt that.

[Egix96]

Confusion

Also, I feel somewhat better towards Xwing today.

Other scum may well be Sash, but also 430 from Junko makes me feel bad. It would be so odd for scum to say something like that though, so IDK. Just why would a townie vote for someone they think's town? When they have actual scum reads.

Personally I would feel more than "somewhat" better re:xwing, considering that it seemed to me like Tchill was trying to send that guy to the shadow realm.

"Other scum may well be Sash" Nah, I really don't think that's likely. Lynching scum Day 1, and then managing to have w/w wagons early on on Day 2? Chance of that happening is slim to none.

[Egix96]

why have you changed your mind on me, after i called you out on it? it only makes my paranoia of you stronger..

You have returned to Xwing from our last game. I'm still not overly happy (though this now comes completely from my gut to your start), but people play better/worse all the time, so I'm no longer convinced by the meta reasons.

Nvm, you're obviously not reading into Day 1 pushes.

[Egix96]

Flubber could also be scum here because he was the only one that voted for tchill but then unvoted.

Uhhh

You do realize I had all of two minutes to hammer after the claim right?

Hmmmm maybe I'm confbiasing

I'll think about it.

For now I think Bujaber is still the best lynch over Sashaddin

I can imagine that interaction being w/w tbh.

[Egix96]

egix, how do you feel about roster?

I'm really not sure atm, he could go either way. Depends on which way BuJ flips.

can someone please unvote?

I'll do it.

UNVOTE: BuJ

[Egix96]

But the hammer attempt on day1 is still suspiciously scummy to me.

Think it through. Why would scum want to do something that draws so much attention? What's Junko's motivation to quick hammer her own buddy before there's even a claim and a chance for him to survive? 9/10 that move comes from frustrated or YOLO!town than scum from my experience.

I know quickhammers have been done to deny town the opportunity to debate strategy by forcing the day to end abruptly. Not often but I've seen it.
Regarding the attention, I survived my last scum game by doing the opposite of what a prudent player would have done so here I was open to anything.

Btw, I saw this and decided to have a quick skim through Sasha's ISO from Mini 2044 (I believe that's the game he's referring to there). His play from that game seems to have been a bit less awkward, like he had more of an idea of what he was doing. Makes me feel a bit better about him, but I will say that the phrasing "my last scum game" seems just a teeny bit slippy.

[Egix96]

but I will say that the phrasing "my last scum game" seems just a teeny bit slippy.

Meh, that's a real stretch. My last x game just means my most recent game is that alignment. I don't know how else he'd refer to his latest scum game regardless of his alignment this game.

Hmm okay, I was interpreting the word "last" to mean "previous", that's why I thought that.

[Egix96]

but I will say that the phrasing "my last scum game" seems just a teeny bit slippy.

Meh, that's a real stretch. My last x game just means my most recent game is that alignment. I don't know how else he'd refer to his latest scum game regardless of his alignment this game.

There is a bit of translation issue too. I really meant "the last game I was scum in". Dannflor has it right.

Ah okay, I can see that you mentioned in the other game as well that English isn't your first language.

Hol up why is Buj at L-1, I don’t recall a lot of people suspecting him?

#readthethread. No need to rush it though, there's still plenty of time.

[Egix96]

Can we talk about how 433 is so manufactured?

Yep. Information Instead of Analysis, that's the term you're looking for.

@xwing: DAE = "Does anyone else...?"

[Egix96]

Actually I'll go with the own I think is more likely to be scum, Buj is probably not in the same team as roster

VOTE: Rosterfroster

From recent developments BuJ looks town.

I'm not seeing it...

VOTE: BuJaber

[Egix96]

Ooh. Well now.

[Egix96]

Flubber just claim next time you're on, don't wait till L-1

Requoting for visibility

[Egix96]

Heck yes