no deadlines mafia [game over]

Purrcocet
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Post Post #2475  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:11 pm

oh thanks so much

In post 2461, mastina wrote:
Purrcocet reeks of knowing both wagons are town and is setting up a mislynch for when they flip town.



only problem with this post is i've been pushing the lynch i want before those two ever were a wagon but ty for claiming wolf

VOTE: mastina

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Post Post #2476  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:17 pm

In post 2473, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Purr sent me fruit, N1.

bad purr
i said i want fruit

Purrcocet
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Post Post #2477  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:23 pm

maybe if you dont nk me i will

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Post Post #2478  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:26 pm

i doubt i would nk you if i were scum seeing as nobody listens to your scumread anyway

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Post Post #2479  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:47 pm

Mastina isn’t scummy, but she is scum. Her play is very political, and she’s pushing a pretty straightforward scum agenda while at the same time, hitting a lot of right marks to come off as townie. I do a similar thing as scum.

The “sure, I’m scum, but not like you can do anything about it” kind of attitude.

That mixed in with the Theta mishaps, and I think Mastina’s highly scum trying to get a mislynch that can keep the game open and flow with scum.

Trekkie99
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Post Post #2480  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:08 pm


Nancy Drew 39
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Post Post #2481  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:27 pm

In post 2477, Purrcocet wrote:maybe if you dont nk me i will

In post 2478, Wisdom wrote:i doubt i would nk you if i were scum seeing as nobody listens to your scumread anyway


I think you’re both town here.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

Xtoxm
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Post Post #2482  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:29 pm

trekkie please familiarise yourself with the media embedding function
thanks
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm if you've pocketed me again my heart will turn to ash. - CheekyTeeky
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin

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Post Post #2483  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:34 pm

oh hey 100 pages in one day phase nice
wryyy

Party Boat
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Post Post #2484  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:39 pm

this is mostly a prod dodge

wagonomics has good posts that people should read

i cannot bring myself to care about mastina and xtomx's reads of each other given that Xtomx assuming that people can read him from playing with him looks like it happened in starcraft mafia too and mastina making reads off of what I think is borderline nothing doesn't surprise me at all regardless of her alignment (and in case anyone wants a reminder I still think theta's play was real town)

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Post Post #2485  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:47 pm

what are you talking about pb
i dont recall using this argument there
i correctly called shoshin scum there for failing to evolve her read on my slot, but it was my first ever game with her so it was entirely different to the reason mastina is scum here
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm if you've pocketed me again my heart will turn to ash. - CheekyTeeky
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin

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Post Post #2486  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:03 pm

In post 806, Xtoxm wrote:I dont feel like town-a50 can have a legit scum read on me here so thats a little sus

But what does my opinion matter

In post 811, Xtoxm wrote:Bc he's seen my scum game

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Post Post #2487  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:04 pm

right i see what youre refering too
you clearly havent read the game, just scanned my iso for something and used it to take a potshot at me
i said "a little sus" because the player in question did not know me well enough for it to be a lockscum offense. and i moved on from the suspicion fairly quickly
"a little sus" and "confscum" are very different statements
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm if you've pocketed me again my heart will turn to ash. - CheekyTeeky
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin

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Post Post #2488  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:09 pm

you're right that I just skimmed your iso, I haven't read the game

I just also think that this argument (and the general idea that mastina should be able to read you here from her experience with you) is similar enough to that one that I could see you easily being wrong on it
In post 2386, Xtoxm wrote:her approach to my slot only ever comes from scum here
she knows me well enough that theres 0 chance she believes the angles shes pushing

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Post Post #2489  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:18 pm

confscum is not a term i throw around lightly
i get almost all of my reads on people in games based on how they interact with my slot
so it would be easy for you to find other examples of me doing it but the strength of reads matter
you cant compare me briefly calling someone a little sus to me calling someone confscum

the only counter argument anyone has given that makes any kind of sense is wisdoms
"she is faking the read on you but might just be doing that as town for the lols"
but she is 100% faking the read on my slot
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm if you've pocketed me again my heart will turn to ash. - CheekyTeeky
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin

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Post Post #2490  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:02 pm

In post 2481, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 2477, Purrcocet wrote:maybe if you dont nk me i will

In post 2478, Wisdom wrote:i doubt i would nk you if i were scum seeing as nobody listens to your scumread anyway


I think you’re both town here.



I just would like 2 die

xyzzy
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Post Post #2491  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:57 pm

votecount 2.1710 players voting for Dannflor (Wagonomics, Nancy Drew 39, TheBrie, light_ganski, Trekkie99, Party Boat, mastina, vonflare, Ausuka, sheepsaysmeep, Kokichi Oma)
6 players voting for Ausuka (Jingle, Jingle, Jingle, Wisdom, singletonking, Vaxkiller)
3 players voting for mastina (Xtoxm, Flavor Leaf, Purrcocet)
1 player voting for Xtoxm (Gamma Emerald)
1 player voting for Nancy Drew 39 (Dannflor)

1 player not voting (Enter)

with 23 votes, it takes 12 to lynch.

mod notes: Saudade has been replaced by Dannflor!

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Post Post #2492  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:14 pm

VOTE: unvote

Hi Dann

tell us ur thoughts when you get around to reading some stuff

Enter
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Post Post #2493  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:37 pm

I apologize for the haphazard manner with which I have been catching up.

In post 2424, mastina wrote:I am townreading Saudade not off of the slot's content--but general thread feelings about the slot compared to Ausuka. There's a term for that, but I can't quite remember it. Essentially, my sense of situational awareness screamed at me, "THE SCUM ARE DIVIDING THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE". And they wouldn't care only if both wagons were a mislynch.

This is why I haven't unvoted. I don't vote townreads that I am townreading off of play, but I'm not townreading Saudade on play. I could always be wrong. My analysis had Saudade as a decent candidate for being scum by play, and that's why I'm staying for now. I am hoping I am wrong. I am hoping that Saudade's slot is scum.


By "general thread feelings" are you saying your particular feelings are the cause of your failure to scumread the slot? Or are you reading the slot based on the feelings of the other players in the thread?

As far as your indications from situational awareness - if I understand correctly, the to be thinking things like this, you must have a relatively confident idea of how large the scum team is, and likely even an idea of it's composition, but I saw nothing in your ISO about these matters. Please talk more about this.

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Post Post #2494  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:44 pm

Unless this is your way of saying you think there's a scum team of six?
In post 2314, mastina wrote:Trekkie99
Gamma Emerald
TheBrie
singletonking
Saudade
Xtoxm

sheepsaysmeep
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Post Post #2495  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:54 pm

we're lynching someone within 24 hours and i give 0 fucks about who that is at this point

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Post Post #2496  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:54 pm

In post 2495, sheepsaysmeep wrote:we're lynching someone within 24 hours and i give 0 fucks about who that is at this point

he says as he remembers how shitty every single wagon has been recently

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Post Post #2497  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:19 am

Nah, I'm gonna hammer on Wednesday cause month activation power and we're close enough to make waiting trivial.

These people posting like they're going to change my mind are cute though.
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DannflorHappy Birthday!
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Post Post #2498  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:34 am

Hi! UNVOTE: Nancy, because that's not a good vote.

I read (skimming parts) all 100 pages of this damn game in a few hours this afternoon and took notes as I went. No idea what that did to my brain or if I'll survive the brain vomit I'm about to do. I'm gonna try to get it all out there anyways and hopefully the end product is worthwhile.

A reads list? We're doing a reads list. This will not be in order nor can I guarantee that it will display any degree of coherency. I'm gonna color reads for better readability.

Nancy Drew: Town. The way she gives out town reads especially during D1 does not read scum. In general, she's given me the impression of being one of the more involved solvers this game just based on the way she approaches things and her presence. I've gone back through her ISO more carefully since skimming and nothing sticks out as contrived to me so I'm gonna stick with my gut town read. Additionally, I don't think scum urges Leodanny to claim like she does in post #605. In fact, I don't really think scum wants to appear that involved in that lynch.

I also just townread her based on her interactions with Flavor Leaf/Varsoon and that whole neighborhood fiasco. That whole debacle reads TvT to me actually. Neither side is scum intentionally trying to misrepresent each other, that just doesn't make sense when you consider there are other neighbors to corroborate stories and it's just too risky. No, this reads more like a communication breakdown between two town players who are upset at being lied to/misrepped when it's really just players misinterpreting things. I would be shocked if there was anything intentionally nefarious going on there.

Varsoon/Flavor Leaf: Town. Town read Varsoon from the start. The wagon on him D1 is mostly built on BS? Which in itself not super indicative either way but I don't think his reaction to a BS wagon comes from a scum place. His cop gambit is a little dumb but again, what scum ever fucking does that? I'm not just gonna brush that off as WIFOM, it's a serious question. Ordinarily you might say he's trying to draw a counter claim, but A: Varsoon wasn't dangerously close to a lynch and didn't have to risk that, and B: we already know there might be duplicate power roles in this game so there's no guarantee an actual cop would even think it worth to CC that. There's so much risk and no reward for scum. I don't think his attitude/rage towards sheep was fake at all. Flavor just tonally reads as obv town since he came in. And his spat with Nancy Drew solidified that for me. Flavor is a player I might want to do a meta check on eventually, but for right now I'm confident enough in the read I got on Varsoon and Flavor initially that my paranoia towards this slot is fairly low.

Let's talk about

Wagonomics: Town. I don't know if it's bad or not that I wanna town read him for his claim alone. It makes sense, right? This seems to be a highish power town game so having some negative utility in there fits. Plus, his role is just so ridiculous it's hard for me to imagine him making it up. I don't have as much specific analysis for why this slot feels town, as it's mostly gut, but his reads/votes are not opportunistic and I think display a good degree of scum hunting. #1820 is a noteworthy post that pretty much exactly echoed my thoughts at that point in the game and is basically the exact opposite of opportunistic.

TheBrie: Leaning Scum. I have "THE BRIE IS SCUM," "DRIE IS SO SCUM," and "THE BRIE IS FUCKING SCUM" written in three separate instances on the first page of my notes. I really really hated the play from this slot during D1. And I'm still not a big fan. In general, she asks a lot of questions and says a lot of things that don't actually push the game forward. Her presence is empty, she waffles around and fence sits way too much. A lot of discrediting her own reads by calling them provisional which allows her a lot of flexibility. This being said, HOWEVER, post #2096 made me rethink this because she explicitly says waffling is just something she does, and then provides meta. I would not expect scum to defend like this and instead try to actually take some hard stances. Her recent play has also been a bit better, but it's not enough to swing my initial strong scum read I got early game.

Bleh let's get some of these slots out of the way:

Xtoxm: lean town? His role in the Flavor/Nancy spat makes me think town largely. Now, this is dependent on my town reads there being correct, but since they're some of my most confident reads I'm fine with doing this. I don't think scum get's so involved/takes one side or another. Instead, I'd expect scum to sit on the sidelines for that more and try to get it to continue/inflate the conflict more. Scum lives off of TvT 1v1s. not much else about his ISO really sticks out. The main reason I ? this slot is because I town read the whole claimed neighborhood and I find it unlikely that all the members are town. If PartyBoat is town, this one might be scum. I could be falling into a trap assuming there can't be an all town neighborhood in this game, but with seemingly so much town power revealed already, it seems unlikely?

Kokichi: Town ig. I gut read him as town. He's a lurker but actually pushes for things and takes stances that I read genuine. It means I believe the IC claim but regardless I'm not gonna spend a bunch of time analyzing this slot because it'll be resolved tomorrow one way or another.

Ausuka: Leaning a bit Town. I skimmed more than I read the most recent pages, so I'm not too clear why there's a wagon on this slot. I think it's probably a mislynch. She never ever thinks the Leo wagon is a good idea, even before it gets really bad and scum can be sure it'll go through anyway. Nothing in her ISO reads scummy to me so I'm gonna need someone to spell out the case on her. I'd would agree with the narrative that two mislynches are being setup today for town to choose between. However, I don't like post #2354 from Ausuka. It feeds into the BS narrative that we HAVE to lynch either my slot or Ausuka today which... I feel is being pushed by scum (more on that later). This is no deadlines mafia, having "no reason to town read someone" is not the best excuse to lynch someone. This would make more sense in a game with deadlines. However, I'm willing to give it a pass because of the heavy narrative being pressed that we NEED a lynch soon and that the game is stalling out. This could very well be a town survival instinct because of that.

Vaxkiller: Probably Scum. His push on Varsoon is bad. His push on Gamma is bad. His push on sheep is bad. His push on ausuka is bad. Everything about his play is opportunistic and weak. He has tons of short posts that are effectively fluff and seems to have been able to just blend in until recently. I just have no good things to say about this slot and I'd be fine lynching here today. However, there is another slot I want to lynch more and there's still the off chance Vax is just really bad town.

Let's do the last neighbor:

PartyBoat: Mixed. Bleh. I gut read this slot initially and I liked how he behaved around the Leodanny lynch. He really pushed for Leodanny to give reads and tried to give him a lifeline so Leo wouldn't just keep trolling and get killed. Obviously it didn't work out, but his attempts read genuine. However, I dislike the way he tunnels Varsoon/Flavor and then seemingly only backs off when Flavor replaces in and won't be an easy lynch, despite the fact that PartyBoat is clearly still suspicious. His pocketing of Sheepsaysmeep esp during the Varsoon vs. Sheep spatfest was also yucky. I HATE the whole narrative that Varsoon is obv scum or that there was gonna be a huge wagon but there was last second resistance. That narrative is purported by Sheep and PartyBoat mainly and that seems very gamestate controlly/manipulative. Because it's not true and I don't think the Varsoon slot was ever in any real danger of being lynched. I also very much think Sheep is scum so these two could be buddies, but maybe the buddying is too obvious then. Regardless, lots of conflicting thoughts on this slot.

Sheepsaysmeep: Scum. This is where I'd like to lynch. He is one of the few players I've actually had experience with before and I scum read him basically as soon as I entered the game. I could say a lot about this slot. If he's town in this game, then his town game is exactly the same as his scum game. His whole wavery, BSing playstyle can be seen pretty clearly towards the end of D1, though it's evident throughout.

In post 649, sheepsaysmeep wrote:VOTE: leo


meh
In post 689, sheepsaysmeep wrote:UNVOTE:

yeah im super lost on that slot rn
In post 690, sheepsaysmeep wrote:VOTE: varsoon

meh
In post 799, sheepsaysmeep wrote:VOTE: leo

i guess


This REEKS of scum trying to make themselves look better in wake of the Leo flip. It's one of the most noncommittal things that's happened in the game and there are a couple waffley players. It's just not genuine whatsoever. Furthermore, while I thought Flavor vs. Nancy was TvT, the same vibes do not arise from Sheep v. Varsoon/Flavor. I would expect town!sheep to reconsider or back down slightly at some point during all of that drama but he KEEPS TUNNELING. Which is not at all in accordance to his waffely play elsewhere so you can't just say that's a play style. I'm trying not to be biased by my prior experience with this player but I can't stop seeing the similarities between his game here and his scum game.

The most offending factor is the narrative that this day must end soon. It's bullshit. Yes, obviously we need a lynch eventually and we don't want the game to stall out. But we JUST got a bunch of replacements, from the vibes I'm getting the game is in a much better place discussion wise now than it ever was D1 or fake cop claim drama earlier today. This pushed narrative also coincides with sheep's activity dropping significantly, basically once he realizes his continued tunnel on Varsoon/Flavor is just going to make him look suspicious.

In post 2495, sheepsaysmeep wrote:we're lynching someone within 24 hours and i give 0 fucks about who that is at this point

Even now he continues to pull this shit. There is not a fucking deadline, only a self imposed deadline primarily driven by sheep's fake frustration. I don't believe for a second his "demotivation" to play this game after the Leodanny flip when he CLEARLY wasn't all that enthused about the lynch in the first place (according to the quoted posts above). Or was that just fake to make himself look better, hmmmmm. The "0 fucks about who we lynch" is not a town mindset in a no deadline game. Lynching either my slot or Ausuka's gives relatively little information about the state of the game, similar to how Leodanny's lynch wasn't super helpful because he was just easy mislynch bait. Sheep isn't trying to make the game better he's just pushing this narrative of needing a lynch soon but lowkey calling them all bad lynches so that when they flip town he can have town cred.

Before I forget: VOTE: Sheepsaysmeep

I should talk about other players before I run out of juice for tonight.

Purrcocet: Null? This player has actually made no impression on me and I apparently have nothing in my notes about them. Which, ironically, has made an impression on me. That's not a great sign for a game with 100 pages already. I have at least vague feelings or brief mentions in my notes on almost every other player but this one. Bleh. Nancy says they're a fruit vendor? I'm not familiar with the role, that's not a strict town or scum thing yea? My reads seem to line up with this slots fairly well so that makes me wanna give it town points. I'll do a more thorough ISO later and see if I can get a better feeling for this slot. Nothing jumps out at me as particularly bad, but that's not really a town tell.

Mastina: Leaning scum. My notes have Theta marked as scum before the replacement. I didn't like the fencesitty play and I don't really think the PR claim clears that up because it could just as easily be a scum JK. Though, while that setup makes more sense in my head I'm unsure scum would actually CC. I dislike Mastina's entrance to the game, her VCA looks like a lot of productive townie stuff but does effectively nothing. I also dislike her call out of today's wagons being mislynches but still being on my wagon?? The observation is good but the actions don't line up. Regardless, this is a claimed PR and will probably be resolved eventually? I don't imagine scum wants to leave a JK alive.

It's getting late here and I have to get up early tomorrow (already surviving on 5 hrs of sleep) so I think I'll have to stop and pick up tomorrow morning.

Ooh, Gamma is town I think, I can talk about that tomorrow. The rest of the players I have mainly gut reads on right now, and it'll take some more time to organize my thoughts on them (should look at purr more too), but for now here's a rough ranking from towniest to scummiest:

Enter/Hebichan
vonflare
jingle/edosurist (is a scum triple voter likely?)
wisdom
singletonking
trekkie
light_ganski

^^ I'll tackle these players and Gamma tomorrow, hopefully I was mostly coherent, ask if you need clarification

Lemme know if I've missed anything or if there's anything i should know, srry for wall, but I'd rather do this to catch up on a 100 page game than spam post 80 times

Let's lynch Sheep! goodnight
"By the way, we are never ever EVER lynching Dannflor EVER. So if he is scum, then they've already won and this game is just a formality." - Bacde
"i don't think anyone is anywhere near as good at sounding scummy as dannflor is" - Enter

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Post Post #2499  (ISO)  » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:29 am

In post 2498, Dannflor wrote:her VCA looks like a lot of productive townie stuff but does effectively nothing.
Um, yes? I was pretty explicit about this? How'd you miss all the labels of "trash-tier", "garbage VCA", and the like where I rather bluntly said it was shit?

In post 2473, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:If this is relevant, Purr sent me fruit, N1.
How obvtown have you been overall? I seem to recall one or two people pushing you, but have most been townreading you? Because actually, yeah, it kinda does.

In post 2493, Enter wrote:
In post 2424, mastina wrote:I am townreading Saudade not off of the slot's content--but general thread feelings about the slot compared to Ausuka. There's a term for that, but I can't quite remember it. Essentially, my sense of situational awareness screamed at me, "THE SCUM ARE DIVIDING THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE". And they wouldn't care only if both wagons were a mislynch.

This is why I haven't unvoted. I don't vote townreads that I am townreading off of play, but I'm not townreading Saudade on play. I could always be wrong. My analysis had Saudade as a decent candidate for being scum by play, and that's why I'm staying for now. I am hoping I am wrong. I am hoping that Saudade's slot is scum.
By "general thread feelings" are you saying your particular feelings are the cause of your failure to scumread the slot? Or are you reading the slot based on the feelings of the other players in the thread?

As far as your indications from situational awareness - if I understand correctly, the to be thinking things like this, you must have a relatively confident idea of how large the scum team is, and likely even an idea of it's composition, but I saw nothing in your ISO about these matters. Please talk more about this.
I stated how large a scumteam to expect in . The junk-tier VCA was self-admittedly junk-tier, but you can't do VCA without an estimate of scumteam size at all.

As for general thread feelings, it means precisely that: reading the entirety of players posting and general game atmosphere, everything points to the lynches both being a mislynch. There are players who look town that are pushing one as scum; there are players who look town that are pushing the other as scum; there are players who look town that are trying to push a third player as scum; there are players who look town that have given up on pushing scum; there are players that look scum that are pushing one as scum; there are players that look scum that are pushing the other as scum; there are players who look scum pushing a third as scum; there could be players that are scum who have "given up" on pushing scum (though if so this isn't as obvious); there are players who fit one of these categories that I can't get an alignment read one way or another on.

But all of it points to the same symptoms.

Of two mislynch candidates in the making.

By necessity, that would made the Saudade slot town, because the situation I'm describing wouldn't be the case if we were looking at scum being counterwagoned by town, or vice-versa.

Some of my reads are influenced by how others see them--that's my third axis of reading people which I've talked about a bit before (long story short, first axis is "generic behavioral tells"; second axis is "modified behavior SPECIFIC TO THAT PLAYER tells", third is "trust in others")--namely, reads like my sheep townread being in part trusting Nancy who I feel WOULD have the experience to get that read accurate, but most of what I've got here is just looking at what's going on and what "feels" right, and the idea of us lynching scum with our current wagons feels wrong.

In post 2468, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Do you have any links to an Xtoxm’s scumgame?
Sure I do, but I'll link them later. (I never make empty statements on meta and can always back them up, it's just that usually it requires :effort: that I tend to avoid.)

In post 2475, Purrcocet wrote:only problem with this post is i've been pushing the lynch i want before those two ever were a wagon but ty for claiming wolf
It doesn't matter how long you've been pushing the wagon; it's the way you've been pushing. I thought I made myself abundantly clear on this.

It doesn't matter if you've been tunneling for one page or 100 pages. It matters how the tunnel is done.

For instance, Wisdom's tunnel? Probably town, enough to be my largest townread.
Your tunnel?
Not so much!

In post 2485, Xtoxm wrote:so it was entirely different to the reason mastina is scum here
Yes because "mastina is scum because she's scumreading me" is entirely a valid argument. :roll:
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