Open 746: Bus Service [Game Over]

[mcqueen]

hi VOTE: rb

[mcqueen]

Hm, I think maybe Reaper and Eyes are towny.

why? Btw I love your name and avatar

[mcqueen]

Hm, I think maybe Reaper and Eyes are towny.

why? Btw I love your name and avatar

Thanks

You’re welcome I’d kinda like an answer to the question tho. What makes these two players towny when we have about a page to go off of?

[mcqueen]

To hell with complexity..

VOTE: Clemency

Because that claim feels wrong. Simple as that.

Actually I don't know, flubber's might be worse.

am i overcomplicating it? i thought flubber’s was a joke, but any backup bus driver is effectively a vt until/if they become the bus driver

[mcqueen]

replace effectively with *functionally

[mcqueen]

i got that. i was talking about Flubbernuggets VT claim

[mcqueen]

To hell with complexity..

VOTE: Clemency

Because that claim feels wrong. Simple as that.

Actually I don't know, flubber's might be worse.

am i overcomplicating it? i thought flubber’s was a joke, but any backup bus driver is effectively a vt until/if they become the bus driver

Correct. I was the one overcomplicating it in my head. It didn't need complication. The claim is stupid if town, it's way more likely to be from scum.

it's an obvious joke as well

No doubt. But I'm saying scum in this case it is a joke from scum.

I'd be surprised if they were partners and both decided to make such a joke. But I don't know which if them would be the scum and which the annoying townie.

I understand why it’d be dumb as town, but tbh I’m not buying that they’re scum for it

[mcqueen]

Hm, I think maybe Reaper and Eyes are towny.

why? Btw I love your name and avatar

Thanks

You’re welcome I’d kinda like an answer to the question tho. What makes these two players towny when we have about a page to go off of?

I'll say if you say why you want to know.

I mean it's just hard for me to pinpoint what exactly makes them towny with so little to go off of.

[mcqueen]

Speaking of Akarin, I almost voted for him last night, because of 25 and 27. I finally didn't and it cost me a prod

Can you explain this better? I just don't understand if it's a joke, and if it's not... well then I don't get it at all.

[mcqueen]

That and my reasoning obviously does not lead to a lynch, as nobody would ever think "Oh, he's right. They have no avi so let's vote them."

Eliot is voting me for doing something they view as scummy, which could lead to a lynch if others listened to them.

Your vote was silly, but it was NAI to me. Eliot's looked like they're trying top build a wagon on me for real.

I would also note that Clemency had 3 votes on him before I voted, so if I wanted an easy lynch I should have joined his wagon instead, but since I didn't then your argument is clearly silly (see the underlined statement above), and makes Eliot's parroting of it even scummier.

I am NOT saying that Eyes was posting a case that would lead to lynch. This obviously isn't the case.

I'm saying Eyes was getting on the Fallen wagon early, for a very minor reason (or no reason, which is the same thing), but if Fallen had reacted badly to early pressure and built up a big wagon then Eyes is already on that wagon before it looks opportunistic.

Additionally all the discrediting language here really pings me, especially as it legitimizes one of the votes on the wagon so as to not be

too

defensive.

I'm having trouble reading Eyes and Akarin atm, but, I don't quite like this post. The bolded section just seems too out-there to really push someone for.

[mcqueen]

I don't like the way you're conducting business here, lovebird. You're asking lots of questions that make me wonder why you asked them. Asking questions alone does not make you towny. Analysis does. What is your vote on us for, exactly? What are your actual opinions beyond just the "This is towny, this is not?" Any scum can ask questions to look town, and I think that's exactly what you're doing here.

I mostly agree with this. I'm getting weird vibes from Lovebird, especially this:

Idk what to think of your response yet. Not towny also wanting to have my townreads, but not scummy trying to doubt my townreads. Maybe you're scum and I scumread a buddy? Probably not

just feels off. A simple, "this is not scummy, but not necessarily basis for a townread, either" would have sufficed. Why insinuate I'm defending a buddy? Clearly, I just wanted to push you for reads that had no explanation/ didn't make sense.

[mcqueen]

This is the question that pinged us.

If you’re town here, you should be asking why it is scummy, not why it is stupid.

however, I did re-read the interaction that spurred these (and previous similar) comments from Eliot, and I think Eliot is pushing something rather NAI. The way Lovebird asked it was fine.

[mcqueen]

Rb what do you think of this?

VOTE: Elliot

at first i preferred akarin, but after this page i also like this

VOTE: Elliot

no, this is better

VOTE: Lovebird

I doubt Lovebird and Eliot are bussing here, so if one flips scum, to me the other is cleared. And out of the two, this is where I feel most comfortable applying pressure/ voting for the moment.

I also don't understand why Eliot is aquiring a wagon while Lovebird has received minimum pressure.

[mcqueen]

And to clarify - I feel like Lovebird's decisions and reads so far have been with as little reasoning as possible. The vote on Eliot seemed to come out of left-field (at least FMPOV), and when asked she said, "I felt like it."

I'm gonna fencesit a little bit and say that I'm not putting full trust in Eliot here, but I feel like his actions have better purpose behind them, enough to sway my vote to Lovebird.

[mcqueen]

And to clarify - I feel like Lovebird's decisions and reads so far have been with as little reasoning as possible. The vote on Eliot seemed to come out of left-field (at least FMPOV), and when asked she said, "I felt like it."

I'm gonna fencesit a little bit and say that I'm not putting full trust in Eliot here, but I feel like his actions have better purpose behind them, enough to sway my vote to Lovebird.

is purposefulness townie? why?

no. Purposefulness was a bad word to use. Scum can (and do) have purpose, too.

Genuine intent feels better. Been a few days since I read the interaction (I could use a reread of the thread), but Lovebird felt ‘dodgy,’ not in the sense that she didn’t answer the questions, but her reluctance to give a direct answer. Eliot didn’t do that.

[mcqueen]

lovebird is receiving minimum pressure because she's playing like town

how?

[mcqueen]

Why insinuate I'm defending a buddy? Clearly, I just wanted to push you for reads that had no explanation/ didn't make sense.

Huh? I said the exact opposite of that

Oh, I think it's scummy then. If you cared more about reasons why they're town rather than pushing for early townreads, it'd be towny.

The bottom doesn’t make sense. I DO care about reasons for them being town; I asked you, “why are these players town?” When did I push for early townreads out of you or anyone else? It’s weird you had a townread that early, is all.

[mcqueen]

And to clarify - I feel like Lovebird's decisions and reads so far have been with as little reasoning as possible. The vote on Eliot seemed to come out of left-field (at least FMPOV), and when asked she said, "I felt like it."

I'm gonna fencesit a little bit and say that I'm not putting full trust in Eliot here, but I feel like his actions have better purpose behind them, enough to sway my vote to Lovebird.

Ya, I did feel like it.

What's wrong with that?

so you’re proving my point that your reasons for your actions are nonexistant. On the surface, it seems like you’re reaction fishing tbqh, but when you repeatedly do that, it becomes more scummy as time goes on (first instance: asking me why I cared about your early townreads).

[mcqueen]

Why not wait until we clarify to vote?

Why would I?

It's just one vote, idk why it bothers you so much.

A question you want clarified was more deserving of a vote than any of the other stuff you pointed out?

Also I don’t like how you tried to just undercut your own intellegence to downplay our argument

Deserving of a vote? Idk. I felt like you were a good vote though.

Doesn't have to be for stuff you've already said.

And, I'm not undercutting my own intelligence. Read what I said again

Just a change of pace to see someone say that.

Clarify the boldest?

Vote someone to see what happens. A lot happened, this time

this is a better explanation, but it still feels dodgy. Why not just say “I wanted to put pressure on you as we were discussing,” rather than “A lot happened, this time?” WHAT happened (in your eyes)?

[mcqueen]

I’m still on page 7 and I haven’t given this game the attention it deserves. I see people are voting BuJaber now. Definitely not moving my vote there until I read up. I thought he was outspoken early game, but that doesn’t necessarily make him scum. So, we’ll see.

@Mod: V/LA until Friday, please. Uni starts this week

I will be on probably a lot, this is just a precaution due to it being the first week of classes in awhile. Will do my best to make my presence known either by tomorrow, or by Tuesday afternoon.

[mcqueen]

Nobody is voting me.

well I saw your name appear in others’ posts and a vote was mentioned. So i assumed people were voting you

[mcqueen]

Rb what do you think of this?

VOTE: Elliot

at first i preferred akarin, but after this page i also like this

VOTE: Elliot

no, this is better

VOTE: Lovebird

I doubt Lovebird and Eliot are bussing here, so if one flips scum, to me the other is cleared. And out of the two, this is where I feel most comfortable applying pressure/ voting for the moment.

I also don't understand why Eliot is aquiring a wagon while Lovebird has received minimum pressure.

yeah same as above, do you actually scumread lovebird?

shouldn't you be more concerned about actually voting someone you think will flip scum, rather than putting a false sense of important on lovebird/elliot interactions?

Lovebird’s interactions felt weird. I’m sad to say, atm, I have no other scumreads. Also, iirc, the deadline is still a week away, so it’s not like I need to rush out a vote.

[mcqueen]

sure go ahead and say it

Lovebird kept talking with other people. Elliott has 80% of his iso only speaking to Lovebird. I have been accused of this when I was scum once and barely got out of it.

I’m not onboard that this is an accurate scumread. It’s very similar to tunneling, and while Eliot may be scum, I’m not putting faith in it off of this premise.

[mcqueen]

Rb what do you think of this?

VOTE: Elliot

at first i preferred akarin, but after this page i also like this

VOTE: Elliot

no, this is better

VOTE: Lovebird

I doubt Lovebird and Eliot are bussing here, so if one flips scum, to me the other is cleared. And out of the two, this is where I feel most comfortable applying pressure/ voting for the moment.

I also don't understand why Eliot is aquiring a wagon while Lovebird has received minimum pressure.

I think you're too quick to deny a possibility of scum theatrics but otherwise I agree here

It didn’t feel like scum theatrics, that’s why

[mcqueen]

Expect a bunch of spam as usual;

Akarin 116 Seems to be pursuing a very reachy argument on Eyes w/o a face.

Agree here. Idk why I passed this over when I read it. Akarin will be a good ISO to dive into

[mcqueen]

I feel like the only reason people think my argument is reachy is because people keep misinterpreting it and then I try to explain it more and that level of explanation of any tell would seem reachy.

If I asked the two of you to explain the only-interacting-with-one-person read over and over and kept calling it crazy and you explained it with more and more words, I think it would be equally easy to call it reachy.

There are good reasons to suspect people jumping on (what seems on page 1 like) easy lynchbait

before

there is a wagon. (Because of bad reaction to pressure.)

This isn't a reach and it's not crazy. It's also not the strongest case ever, but it was strong for that point in the game.

Basing a case off a potential 'jumping-on' of a wagon Day 1 is reachy. I understand Day 1 can be slow at times and you're looking for something to cling onto, but this is not an argument that, alone, is going to convince everyone else Eyes without a face is scum.

[mcqueen]

And isn't this a good argument for you to vote Eyes?

Why would it be?

[mcqueen]

I am fed up with this Akarin tunnel, so I will propose this: Cop should check me tonight. Since I know the result on me I trust that there will be nothing to claim tomorrow, so the Cop will not have to out. Once we've established the Cop has no guilty we proceed to lynch Akarin.

The good thing is scum messing with the Cop by shooting me still confirms me as Town and we still lynch Akarin after my flip, and of course the Busdriver is Town so scum cannot mess with the result obtained on me.

Please nobody discuss. I am not fishing for responses. Just do it.. or don't.

Lol no.

[mcqueen]

Okay quick read thru, intial impressions>

Akarin

116 Seems to be pursuing a very reachy argument on Eyes w/o a face.

Bujaber

Very serious out of gate. Jumping on the Clemency/Flubber joke?? claims. Shows genuine frustration that normally comes from town. 58 and 62. Towns Eyes W/O a Face. Why? Leaning town at this point on BuJaber.

Eliot Ness

Latches onto Lovebird 71 and 134. Spends almost all of thread time on this pursuit. Very tunnelly.

Eyes Without A Face

not alot to go on. Seems a tick defensive in response to being voted on. But find it NAI.

Fallendown

Seems inexperienced. How many games have you played @Fallendown. 169 everyone is scum until cleared.

Flubbernugget

Just a question for those that have played with him before, is this how he plays? 179 one game isn't meta.

Lovebird

83 I find almost TWTBAW. But I have no game experience with him. 126 I agree on Akarin. First impressions are that they are asking questions and keeping things stirred up. But I also see a little defecting at times with answers to questions. But at this point I agree with someone elses assessment that she is interacting with alot of players whereas Eliot is tunneling only on her. Which I normally find scumtell this early, especially given the reason for the pursuit.

mcueen

At this point i disagree with 151. At this point I get more of a town feel from Lovebird than Eliot. But that doesn't mean I am correct in that read as I have some doubts also.

rb

Hmm at this point its alot of short answers and sheeping of Lovebird. Alot of post but not alot of meat.

Sashaddin

92 Townie post. 159 Agree on the Lovebird/Eliot Ness at this point. 177 agree on the tunneling. Sorta mindmeld going on some things.

TTTT

174 Why?

Clemency

Honestly didn't read yet. His ISO always makes my head hurt. Usually takes a bit and the read on him comes.

Good feels so far
BuJaber
Sashaddin

Not so good feels
Akarin
Flubbernugget
Eliot Ness

i've only ever seen lists like this come from scum

lovebird can you change your vote so i can vote bujaber too

bad rb. Personally, I don't really go back and pay attention to "lists like this usually come from scum," so I can't even remotely definitely say. However, I'm gonna say that this isn't as good of a readslist as I would've liked, but Reaper is giving thoughts on the thread. That's NAI if not town.

And why are you asking to vote BuJaber here? Where did that come from?

[mcqueen]

Ooh hey!! Wow! It's been a year!

Congrats!

[mcqueen]

Oh, shit! Totally missed that one. OK.. I concede that was a dumb proposition.

Town derp.

[mcqueen]

i would like to vote him because bujaber is probably scum

why else

Why

is BuJaber probably scum?

[mcqueen]

Ok, I'm caught up. Here's a very quick, loose readslist for y'all:

• ReaperofSouls - town
  
• rb - town
  
• BuJaber - town
  
• Clemency - don't know
  
• Flubbernugget - lean town
  
• Eyes without a face - town
  
• Akarin - lean scum
  
• TTTT - don't know; kind of lean town
  
• Eliot Ness - lean town
  
• FallenDown - lean town
  
• Sashaddin - town
  
• Lovebird - lean scum

Wow, this is somewhat fencesitty. When I get the chance, there's a few things I need to do. Re-check Lovebird and Eliot, potentially ISO them both. I basically stuck with the reads I had for those two, although they are prone to evolve in the next few days. I'm struggling to remember much about FallenDown, so some time in their ISO would do me good. Finally, I'm not sure what the silly interaction a couple pages back (I believe pgs. 10 & 11) means between Clemency and TTTT. I could definitely see that being scum creating conversation with each other, but I had a slight townread on both before that. So, I've retracted those townreads and we'll see.

[mcqueen]

Also let me know if I missed anybody. I copy-pasted from post 0, but since it's in a table I had to delete all the "Alive" and stuff, so I could've accidentally deleted somebody's name.

[mcqueen]

Sorry..

Who were the two people fighting this game.. elliot/fallen?

One of them is the 3rd scum.

at this point i just think this is scum trying way too hard to look proactive

and doing a bad job of it

I didn't like his post either, but I'm not necessarily convinced he's scum because of it.

[mcqueen]

Alonzo replaces FallenDown.

24 hours have been added to the deadline.

hiiiii

[mcqueen]

Is Sash town? Is mcqueen town?

I’m town and I hard townread Sash

[mcqueen]

Is Sash town? Is mcqueen town?

I’m town and I hard townread Sash

Why

I like the way they explain their reasoning

[mcqueen]

Alonzo you caught up?

[mcqueen]

Firebringer can you remind me why you're voting Lovebird?

[mcqueen]

Firebringer can you remind me why you're voting Lovebird?

i would if i voted lovebird at any time since my like 3 posts since joining this game.

then do something

[mcqueen]

No, I’m talking to you

[mcqueen]

“since my like 3 posts since joining this game”

> page 16

> “do something”

Idk, interact, form reads?

[mcqueen]

wait nevermind, I forgot you replaced in

[mcqueen]

Why is Lovebird town?

Im just not seeing it.

Why are you?

[mcqueen]

yes sheeping me on a Lovebird read is great stuff

[mcqueen]

where’d Alonzo go

[mcqueen]

i typed that before checking timestamps. it’s been less than 24 hours. Still seems he’s given very little content so far

[mcqueen]

i will be here sporadically for the next few hours. i need to read up the last couple pages, but I’m fine on Lovebird, potentially on Alonzo. not sure who else I’m comfortable voting atm.

[mcqueen]

VOTE: Alonzo this is where I want my vote placed

[mcqueen]

At least 1 of Alonzo and Lovebird is scum

[mcqueen]

mcqueen, what's your case on Alonzo?

meta from a Newbie game we played together

[mcqueen]

@Mod: Can we have an updated VC, please?

[mcqueen]

mcqueen, what's your case on Alonzo?

meta from a Newbie game we played together

What's the meta? It must be a pretty strong read.

when he’s scum he appears very towny. he tried to come in and make up some reads and sheeped me on Lovebird. I don’t recall much (should skim the thread tbh), but he didn’t give much reason for his stances which to me is him being lazyscum. Game’s slow anyway

[mcqueen]

Eyes, there's wagons between me and clemency right now. What do you think of them?

I would've said something if I knew which one to pick over the other. I still prefer FB over the both of you/

Can you remind me why you think FB is scum?

[mcqueen]

Why is that what you respond to instead of mcqueens question.

[mcqueen]

@Mod: request to make all further Days have a 1 week deadline instead of 2. Two has been shown to be too long, activity drops off, and the game becomes less interesting/playable in a lurkfest. I am not clear of blame, but faster Days would help.

[mcqueen]

why?

[mcqueen]

u could shorten this day by hammering mcqueen

not anymore

[mcqueen]

Fine VOTE: flubber

[mcqueen]

nvm i didn't like that post because i dont see town motivation in shortening the day but
i guess i dont wanna compromise on this
VOTE: flubbs

yeah usually that’s the case but 2 weeks is just too long. Look where the activity levels are. Day 2 feels like it’s been forever, and there’s still 6(!) real life days left til the deadline. That’s just too much it’s not helping town at this point.

[mcqueen]

@sasha - I townread flubber as a result of my wagon analysis. I'm agreeing as a compromise so I can get clemency lynched.

@akarin - it's not about just getting the lynches, it's about getting everyone to agree so nobody can back away from it. We don't need everyone but forcing everyone to do so gives town more power.

I’m kinda townreading this post but I could see how it could come from scum!Bujaber

[mcqueen]

Eyes needs to be lynched after clemency/flub is sorted out.

I’m not a fan of his play either (lol look who’s talking), but unless you think Eyes is scummy, I’m against lynching people for bad play.

[mcqueen]

did u just refer to urself in third person?

definitely worth it to check FB’s iso later. Can’t recall them giving out much content at any point

[mcqueen]

Why is that what you respond to instead of mcqueens question.

because it's not my job to remind anyone of anything. If he says "remind me" he is acknowledging I already stated it before, and this forum has this function of displaying posts for one user at the bottom of the screen so he can use it instead of asking.

annoying but not lynch worthy on its own

[mcqueen]

Or better yet, maybe I work for the CIA and we faked the death of the cop to cover for the aliens incident. Oops! That's highly confidential stuff and I should learn to keep my mouth shut.

Shit now I want to lynch eyes but we can't afford to do my plan after that if he flips town.

But like if eyes flips town his behavior is reportable/bannable surely. How can that not be playing against your win condition? It's only fine if it's scum trying to wifom us into not lynching them.


Also can the people who haven't agreed to my plan state their agreement and choose which of clem/flubber they prefer first?

can you remind me who you think is scum? Sorry my fault for not paying attention

[mcqueen]

That was @BuJ

[mcqueen]

@mod: v/la until wednesday

this is bad since I was the one suggesting the shorter deadlines. however, i'm too busy irl to play right now. also, deadline is thursday, and i will have time wednesday-thursday to provide content.

i was feeling firebringer but his posts above look good, so i'm not sure. wanna look at bujaber again, and i'm not sure about clemency. is akarin still in the game? i kind of thought she was town, too.

[mcqueen]

oh yeah, and idk about Alonzo. still leaning scum, but definitely worth a check.

[mcqueen]

i don't have a good answer so i'm not gonna try to make up one.

[mcqueen]

i don't have a good answer so i'm not gonna try to make up one.

And here is the problem buddy.

I can't sort that kind of mindset your in. Not to shit all over you, but when I see a mindset of "i am not going to figure out whats going on and give thoughts. just gonna throw thoughts around" it can easily be done by either apathetic town or scum.

How do I know your mind is scum or town. Even if your town, how would i trust your reads when I know they aren't informed by someone who has taken a read through everything thats going on and made some kind of judgement based on that.

You are playing like this as though you are a casual observer to the game. If I was going to read the motivations of a casual observer, I would likely fail at pegging them as town/scum because they aren't in the game nor do they care which side wins. That is what I get from you.


So how do I read you properly here buddy? How.

you don’t, and it’s entirely my fault.

[mcqueen]

Or I don't.

But I'm lynching not him today

Why not?

[mcqueen]

And why are you associating me with Creature?

[mcqueen]

Love how rc ignores my attempt to engage

[mcqueen]

Well i agree my iso is bad. Im absolutely not scum, though, but i never asked you to unvote because i’m not sure i can convince you based on how bad my iso is. The only thing i can do now is play.

Why did u call me not scum during ur entrance and then change ur read later on?

[mcqueen]

is the game over or am i smacked