Large Normal 217 (Game Over)

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

WAGONOMICS

[Gamma Emerald]

@UnaH: your avi was a static image, what happened?

[Gamma Emerald]

What, I can’t have friendly banter?

[Gamma Emerald]

This game only reached page 2 and it already blows.

VOTE: overkill

Agreed
Btw your avatar looks familiar, what is it

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Springtrap

...aaand this is scum for wanting to create a third equal wagon in their first post.

I take it you scumread AP as well then for being the one to suggest it?

Mmm don’t like this, distracting from his own actions with others who did the same
VOTE: Persivul

[Gamma Emerald]

Not a bad theory on paper but for him I disagree.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why
I had a vaguely similar idea in a recently ended game

[Gamma Emerald]

Because it makes no sense. Anyone doing a metadive on AP and looks at his post history will see he was in this game, they aren't gonna just ignore it because he switched the account he was posting from are they

I guess that’s a fair point. Did you consider that CL?

[Gamma Emerald]

Sashaddin that’s kinda icky what you just wrote. Take a minute, think it through, and imagine scenario that fit what you described that might make your vote not good.

[Gamma Emerald]

There you go.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nah
If it was more serious I’d go with that.

[Gamma Emerald]

I am with A50 pretty much, yeah I don't see what so towny but I think your vote was sheeping NM who iirc voted when overkill hadn't posted at all.

[Gamma Emerald]

There are some in his sig.

I have sigs turned off, but thanks for the IIOA.

Didn’t Pers just ask about that, and now he’s deflecting the conversation?

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s not IIoA, that’s Garciaing, and even then the question was pretty meaningless

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's consolidate our 4 wagons.
Those on spring, move to overkill.
Those on Gamma, move to Persivul.

I'd think that might be switched given me being on Persivul and arguing against voting Overkill

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's consolidate our 4 wagons.
Those on spring, move to overkill.
Those on Gamma, move to Persivul.

This would be a VERY bold move from a scum, but I could see this also being a brilliant way to posture.
Basically moving town around from/to scum and therefore either covering for buddies or creating distance for later.

What's even more, I'd abandon voting Persivul at this point, and prefer splitting the wagons to Overkill and Springtrap instead.
Why?
Because neither of them are voting atm, and at least Persivul is on Overkill now (and was on Springtrap).
I like the idea of getting any one of the three to flip, but for now I'd prefer Springtrap and Overkill as wagons over Persivul.

(and apparently the movement was already made on this latest page to make it a leading wagon on Overkill, so...)
VOTE: Overkill -

L-1

You know I noted the odd choices for who to switch to and the conclusion UnaH reached supports that
VOTE: Chateau Lobby

[Gamma Emerald]

Does nobody else think Persivul is a better lynch than Overkill? his iso consists of 2 RVS votes, irrelevant questions and throwing shade at LHF for answering a question

Yeah, this game just isn't grabbing me. Doubtful I'd be much help until D3.

lol

[Gamma Emerald]

Please lynch Overkill and his shitty textbook claim kthnx

Considering it
but CL's weird voting maneuvering also is worth pushing

[Gamma Emerald]

y

[Gamma Emerald]

Random thought, where did the phrase “your mileage may vary” originate?

[Gamma Emerald]

You know I noted the odd choices for who to switch to and the conclusion UnaH reached supports that
VOTE: Chateau Lobby

Dragging in another person to justify your vote is scummy af.

So realizing someone sees the same shit I do is a bad thing? Alright, from now on I won’t try to collaborate, I’ll just push whatever and whether others agree with me isn’t my problem. /s
Like, what the fuck is your deal that town cohesion looks scummy to you?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Overkill
Until he clears up what the fuck his role is I’m not moving

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s 14 players, not that much more compared to a mini. And Overkill isn’t the only wagon. Step it up.

[Gamma Emerald]

1.5? It’s ONE person past being a Mini.

[Gamma Emerald]

There has been a moderator error related to the ruleset. I apologize for that.

The scum faction(s) has/have daytalk.

rip ez scumhunting

What were you thinking

[Gamma Emerald]

Looks more like Ron Swanson

[Gamma Emerald]

@A50 So?

[Gamma Emerald]

Y

[Gamma Emerald]

I was saying ”Y” to this

I have an idea.

EVERYONE VOTE SASHADDIN!

[Gamma Emerald]

Gut read: Stanley is town

[Gamma Emerald]

What even

[Gamma Emerald]

Sashaddin should be lynched because of a very telling and obvious scumpost.

I'll be snickering in the dead thread when you take that cop hat off.

Ew.

[Gamma Emerald]

That is hilarious despite being mildly nsfw

Took me a while to find this image because I used it to snark at players in a game I modded, but not the one where it was on-brand

[Gamma Emerald]

That IS a bit late for a PEdit...

[Gamma Emerald]

@MOD: V/LA until Tuesday

That'll be when my finals end.

For someone who wants overkill dead your vote doesn’t look that way

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the L-1 is dirty too

[Gamma Emerald]

So overkill why hasnt Rob revealed your Ic status

As I said, I forgot that a mafia varient of my role could exist. I can confirm my ability today, but im almost helping mafia by giving the info.

Wow the backpedal feels real here

[Gamma Emerald]

Xtoxm visited Stanley and Guyinafreezer, tyty for making me out what it most likely 2 TIs.

Xt,
Please explain.

Why would they have to explain, they most likely are either bus driver or some type of pariety cop.

Could be other things too. Don’t want to mention anything to avoid giving ideas.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Parity cop isn’t normal either

[Gamma Emerald]

Can I ask how a Tracker is nearly a confirmed IC? A claim that confident being a tracker is... Weird.

Because a Scum Tracker is a bit weird. It's not impossible, but is rare.

I have an idea and if it is what I think it is I’ll be kinda upset
Overkill, where else have you played mafia?

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh wot
Never knew that

[Gamma Emerald]

A delayed gtfo me im a pr but also won't commit to anything honestly there's a decent chance this guy is actually scum

Is this what you speak of Overkill?

[Gamma Emerald]

A delayed gtfo me im a pr but also won't commit to anything honestly there's a decent chance this guy is actually scum

Is this what you speak of Overkill?

yep

That wasn’t a PR claim but it’s understandable
I think I’d rather VOTE: Xtoxm

[Gamma Emerald]

can mafia use the factional kill and use there ability at the same time?

If they are Multitasking, yes. I also thought he could be a town Multitasking role but that’s not possible now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw my bet is Xtoxm’s buddies aren’t online right now as they’d probably give him a better plan than “nuh uh”
Either that or they’re very new

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Overkill

this is confirmed not mafia btw.

Explain??

because Xtoxm visited them.

There’s scum roles that are well served to visit their allies

[Gamma Emerald]

No, wait.
Overkill could be speaking the truth, and Xtoxmox could be multitasking scum, BUT Stanley and GiF aren't automatically paired in alignment. (think scum!Doc healing scum!Stanley but trying to kill GiF or whatever)

So we lynch Overkill, but all he has said today is actually WIFOM and doesn't help us at all.

P-Pardon?
Are you saying to ignore his result if he flips Tracker?

[Gamma Emerald]

if persivul flips town i'm spamming the shit out of dead chat VOTE: persivul

Would rather lynch the fully claimed guilty tyvl

[Gamma Emerald]

And if cl is actually claiming investigative here that should be fairly good evidence overkill is lying

what

[Gamma Emerald]

So it looks like despite overkill
Changing his claim since yesterday when about to die
Has me visiting 2 people neither of which were the apparent kill target
Others prs having claimed making his existence unlikely from a setup perspective
Mislynching me is still you going to be required to catch him
Because not having a role is unbelievable in comparison to what he's done
So that's cool

Gamma showed a totally non natural read progression today, from spending all yesterday voting overkill to instantly believing him today. Good chance this is one of overkill buddies

Nah I have my doubts
But his reasoning for checking you checked out so I figured it was better to lynch you
Btw A50 curious if you feel anything was off about Xtoxm’s reaction to the guilty

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think I am town PR?

You said you had a night action and I don't see any scum motivation for a faked result on me. So, yes, you're probably a (bad) town PR. You could also be scum or lying town, but those seem less likely.

That hurts my feelings.

Okay actually Pers might be reacting to this guilty worse than Xtoxm did to his

[Gamma Emerald]

.... Loyal...

OK, so: you're a Loyal Fruit Vendor. You sent me fruit. You assumed that anyone who received fruit would necessarily say that in their first post. Since I didn't, you concluded I'm scum (the three 100% claims being absolute bullshit). Then, as we kept talking, I guessed that you were this obscure role, and then claimed to have received fruit.

You're either bad town, or bad scum.

Why would you have to guess an obscure role when you supposedly received fruit?

I made a similar connection so it’s not too much of a stretch

[Gamma Emerald]

Ew autocorrect every time

the biggest mood

[Gamma Emerald]

I think UnaH's logic is solid
but something about their tone strikes me s scummy

[Gamma Emerald]

honestly CL just makes me think Cult Leader

[Gamma Emerald]

btw don't assume he's scum for claiming late
in a very old game I got mled for that same lazy logic

[Gamma Emerald]

claiming fruit late if it wasnt clear

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is town multitasking not possible now? Was it possible before? If so what made it so it isn't possible now? If it isn't possible now for town to have it, is it still possible for scum?

Because Xtoxm denied doing anything last night
So he COULD be multitasking who holstered (which I seriously doubt) but the primary logic for me is eihter he is vanilla/something not multitasking or he's multitasking scum. He definitely can be multitasking scum and that's most likely what he is if he is scum and the guilty is real

[Gamma Emerald]

Pers is town af.

UNVOTE:

Wait the what. HUH?

WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE LYING?

'twas a gambit

Oh I never realized this
Well I’m glad I never moved my vote so I don’t have to do that now

[Gamma Emerald]

Fuck guys I'm really sorry I got my games mixed up, this is the game where I'm a multitasking Neapolitan motion detector

/shame

VOTE: xtoxm
nope.gif

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeet

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm a Town Jack of All Trades. I had the following 1 shot abilities. Follower, Watcher, Motion Detector.
N1 I Motion Detector Springtrap, I did not sense motion.
N2 I Watcher Clemency, got No Result.
N3 I Follower UnaBombaH, they did not motion.

I think Clemency lied about being roleblocked because I was roleblocked on N2.

My claim looks shit thanks to N3. But, that's what I've got this game.

VOTE: Clemency

We already had a tracker and Loyal FV flip so I’m kinda skeptical of another investigative

[Gamma Emerald]

In fact VOTE: joges BECAUSE was had a tracker flip, which imo conflicts with his claim

[Gamma Emerald]

In fact VOTE: joges BECAUSE was had a tracker flip, which imo conflicts with his claim

I didn't have a tracker ability.

I had:

Follower, this was telling me if someone did an action
Watcher, this was telling me if someone was targeted
Motion Detector, this was telling me if there was motion on that target

I actually opted for Overkill over Xtoxm for this very reason too. I felt I had the tracker role and when he claimed it I was skeptical. 899 I said "I feel more confident about voting him than I do others." in regards to Overkill, and "but would much rather we lynch Overkill as I think he is scum"

I explain why in the post, but I was always leaning towards him because of his claim. Now that I think of it from balancing perspective it makes sense though. I'm sure given my JOAT and his Tracker that town and scum have a lot of movement.

Fair. Still don’t trust you tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Loyal FV isn’t informed if their action succeeds

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Clemency
Ok that felt like he forgot he had to maintain a certain POV to stay alive

[Gamma Emerald]

GuyInFreezer has been prodded. Seeking replacement for Gamma Emerald.

As a note, I will not be issuing prods December 24-25 due to the holidays.

VOTE GAMMA EMERALD. HE IS PRETTY ACTIVE ON SITE BUT AVOIDING THIS THREAD.

Fuck I’m back
Family time has kinda eaten my mafia time

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t want to keep up the slank but nothing is fucking happening
Either decide on a lynch or being something new up. Tbh even lynching me isn’t that bad.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm leaving shortly for a camping trip and won't have internet for a few days. We are apparently in mylo. Before I go I want to say that IMO we should NOT no lynch today. They're just going to NK stanley tonight. I'd rather lynch today and have his input.

Agreed. We should probably massclaim too. Should we make an order or just popcorn?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also if GIF was role copped by Xtoxm theyd know he was a VT. Theres no reason to kill him instead of me unless they were considering the fact i made it look like i was gonna quick lynch Joges since its mylo. Joges is town. Out of the remaning 3 A50 Gamma and NM i think we should lynch Gamma

And what reason there to make you think GIF was the rolecop target?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also if GIF was role copped by Xtoxm theyd know he was a VT. Theres no reason to kill him instead of me unless they were considering the fact i made it look like i was gonna quick lynch Joges since its mylo. Joges is town. Out of the remaning 3 A50 Gamma and NM i think we should lynch Gamma

And what reason there to make you think GIF was the rolecop target?

Because he didnt die and Clemency was the doctor?

You didn't die either?

[Gamma Emerald]

Holddd up. Can we establish which night you’re talking about where GiF didn’t die?

[Gamma Emerald]

Night 1 obviously

Who was Clem’s N1 target again?

[Gamma Emerald]

Cool
So Stanley, what does Clem’s action have to do with what Xtoxm did?

[Gamma Emerald]

So you claim to have acted N1

@Rob14: If an action targeted a Commuter/Ascetic, would a tracker see it?

[Gamma Emerald]

Some mods do it differently

[Gamma Emerald]

Even within normals
Unless they actually standardized it at this point, which I’m not sure

[Gamma Emerald]

OK, but the wiki for Ascetic states:

This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. An Ascetic role cannot be targeted by anything other than a kill.

A role attempting to target an Ascetic should be seen doing so by Trackers and Motion Detectors

.

This bit is not explicitly mentioned in the wiki for Commuter, although they both sate the role targeting the Ascetic/Commuter is considered "Roleblocked", which goes against the Normal Guidelines for Roleblocker (!!). I'll quote:

Commuter (Normal Guidelines):

Any role that attempts to target a commuting Commuter should be treated as though they are blocked

Ascetic (Top of page):

More precisely, Ascetic reflexively Roleblocks all actions taken against them except kills.

Roleblocker (Normal Version):

When an X-Shot role is blocked, the shot is not refunded; the player still counts as having "paid for" their role use, but the actual role is otherwise considered to not have happened (so, e.g., Trackers and Watchers will not be able to see the blocked role being used).

But if I had to make a judgement I'd take what was explicitly mentioned in the Ascetic wiki page over the interpretation of it being a Roleblock (i.e. Tracker will see the action from the the role targeting the Ascetic).

Perhaps we should contact the mhsmith to make proper amendments to the wiki?

I can take this explanation
@Persivul I think it’s probably not joges is pretty much all I’m sure of
I was thinking about it and honestly I feel like there’s a fair amount of town investigative power with joges being town, it’s not overpowered like I was feeling earlier

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait what
I asked a question, got an answer but answer raised an even bigger question
How the fuck does that chain-roleblock the tracker
In any case that indicates Stanley did not commute I think
VOTE: Stanley

[Gamma Emerald]

That makes sense
Doesn’t change the fact Stanley didn’t commute

[Gamma Emerald]

If we lynch Stanley we lose. Plain and simple. He is not scum, he is MUCH more likely a BP SK than scum. There was no reason for Xtoxm to visit a member of his own faction.

He could also be a traitor.

[Gamma Emerald]

In fact, here's a lynch pool for you: Percy, Gamma & N_M. I still have this "I don't vote N_M" principle intact, so if you pick him you're going to have to do it without me. Otherwise, which of Percy/Gamma would you lynch and why?

Btw you gonna keep that principle intact when it’s 4/3p my/LyLo?

[Gamma Emerald]

You know with the whole Clem and Joges both supposedly being roleblocked situation its confirmed there is 2 mafia remaning unless Joges is lying (which he isnt). i guess theres nothing wrong with speculating about me but dont you think that 10 town to 4 mafia (if im traitor being counted) is unbalanced? Also don't you think 10 town 3 mafia and one SK is even more unbalanced?

9:3:1 was considered fair in the past so 10:3:1 seem less problematic than that

[Gamma Emerald]

VT here.

[Gamma Emerald]

You never said much of anything except

lynch overkill

.

That’s actually one of NMs scumtells btw

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
Yeah I’m feeling this one

[Gamma Emerald]

Mafia haven’t been allowed extra kills in normals for a while. It’s either a vig, SK, or multiball, and we have no big claim so it’s between the last two.

[Gamma Emerald]

why

[Gamma Emerald]

Lynch not_mafia

[Gamma Emerald]

If he was town, there wouldn't be an issue at all right now to see that wagon finished. But it's not going anywhere. Not_Mafia is scum with either A50 or Persivul.

Then why not lynch Percy? I do not vote N_M, and

is certainly not the last of his kind

, if he is scum at all.

Pardon? Why would you need to specify this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah but everybody knows that

[Gamma Emerald]

^^Btw, would yo9u consider this to be within the range of your "scum tell behaviour"?

What specifically?

[Gamma Emerald]

Overkill wasn’t a threat in the slightest

There are very few cold hard facts in mafia, nothing is done in a vacuum, it’s easy for scum to make the “townie” move when they have all the facts, it’s not easy for scum to know and act how they would as town, tone reads catch scum

Oh really, what makes you say Overkill wasn’t a threat?

[Gamma Emerald]

A50 vote NM

[Gamma Emerald]

You think it’s me and joges? What made the second kill happen n3 then?

[Gamma Emerald]

lol get lynched

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not sure if A50 is scum
I’m pretty sure NM and Stan are scum of some sort. Would rather lynch NM as Stan’s claimed role fits as SK over Mafia.

[Gamma Emerald]

Those are my genuine reads.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also lol cum

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, notice the Strongman? Clemency might not have been "blocked" on one of the two kills

Alright, so we’re probably looking at
Mafia Multitasking Rolecop
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon
OS BP SK JOAT (Commuter, Strongman, Ninja)
Town 2 shot tracker
Town Doctor
Town Joat (Watch, Follow, MD)
Town loyal FV
6 VTs
That looks sensible I guess?

[Gamma Emerald]

Wagonomics.

[Gamma Emerald]

Is that a scum claim?

I thought so for a second, but it’s not

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think so but I also think NM is scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma shows as not being on since you L-1'd me, so no conclusions can be drawn until she's been on. If she hammers, that's game. If she doesn't, it's you/A50.

VOTE: Persivul
There’s no way joges is scum, so this is Persivul grasping at straws.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not_Mafia has been repeating the same message like fucking Denning from Fire Emblem 7, and that's one of his scumtells. That's pretty much the whole case.

fyi this isn't a really important spoiler but don't ask any questions if you don't want to run across more significant spoilers

[Gamma Emerald]

I townlocked him for some reason earlier, I guess he just Bavarian Fire Drilled me into thinking he was conftown

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Almost50
I also ISOed a50 and I don't see the sort of wacky thinking that I associate with town!him btw.

[Gamma Emerald]

w/e I was scum Multiasking Alien
didn't really care when I realized the mod put in a role that could guilty both scum pretty solidly after making a 2 mafia 14p
awful fucking setup

[Gamma Emerald]

didn't really care when I realized the mod put in a role that could guilty both scum pretty solidly after making a 2 mafia 14p

How? By the tracker tracking you when you make a nightkill and use your action on your scumbuddy?
That'd prevent them from using their rolecop.

I was the one who designed this game.

Or making any other action. Like, if scum are maxing night action usage there’s 50% chance of a guilty while both live and a 100% chance while one lives. That plus joges role makes it seem like you really wanted town to win this.

[Gamma Emerald]

I would like to think that if a game can make it to LyLo, it's a decent/fair enough setup. -shrug-

No. That’s a poor assumption. Scumsided games can easily reach LyLo.

[Gamma Emerald]

I would have been pissed to be scum in 11:2:1, regardless of the powers.

The game was designed to be a pseudo-multiball-mini. If you think of the mafia as one scum faction and the sk as a second scum faction, then what you end up with is a picture where you've got asymmetric scumteams in a game that's essentially a mini normal in size.

Multiball is, inherent to its nature, swingy, and puts the scum at a disadvantage because while there are more scum-controlled kills and just as many scum-aligned players, they are divided in half, making them mutually exclusive and allowing for crosskills otherwise impossible.

And there in lies the problem, you tried to make an assymetric multiball setup at low numbers. I dislike the jungle games for a reason (and yes I’m aware I’m going to be modding one, that’s my fault for not being more choosy)

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright, I left you a perfectly good counter argument and you failed to take it. I’m done with you.

[Gamma Emerald]

I still don't think the Tracker was necessary. It's not really about balance, just swinginess and general role in the setup. Loyal FV and the JOAT were sufficiently investigative. I think a Universal Backup would have served the setup much better. Alternatively, the JOAT could have been significantly altered. I don't see why you need three investigatives in this setup, though.

I guess this is a fine enough comment imo
I’ll stop arguing, and agree that I didn’t play too well
Doesn’t help that MY PARTNER DECIDED TO ACT LIKE HE KNEW BETTER THAN ME!!!!!!!!!!!